11/11/25: Trump Meets With Former Al Qaeda Leader, Tech Stocks Hiding Losses, AIPAC Trackers Unmask

25:27So that is what has to happen for them to get a 10 % return on the amount of cash that they are plowing into these AI investments. I mean, so far, there is no path to that. You know, when you listen to Sam Altman talk and he talks about all the revenue that they're going to generate in the future, it's all extremely speculative. It's like, well, and we think he said something to the effect of we think there's going to be lots of like science and medicine applications that are kind of hard to talk about right now, like kind of hard to. He didn't say project out, but that's basically the implication of like, you know, we just are hoping that once we get to this level of AGI, there's going to be all sorts of revenue that flows in that we haven't really specifically identified and can't really see our way to because we don't know exactly how that's going to work.

26:16That's what they're all betting on. So I don't know, guys. That's where we are right now. And yet at the same time, you know, there is fallout from what's already been done already from the development here. You've got the left starting to push back. E4 can put up on the screen. You know, Bernie Sanders and others on, you know, in the sort of progressive wing of the Democratic Party really starting to key in to electric bills as a major political issue. Yesterday, we covered how influential that was in some races here in Virginia, in those statewide races in Georgia as well. So they are starting to push for legislation that would make sure that the data centers are paying for their own electricity, that that is not getting pushed onto consumers.

27:00You also have societal fallout such as this. We can put E5 up on the screen, you know, allegations that ChatGPT is pushing some mentally disturbed users towards suicide. Listen to this reporting. They say, in one case, ChatGPT told Zane Shamblin, as he sat in the parking lot with a gun, that killing himself was not a sign of weakness but of strength. Quote, you didn't vanish. You arrived. Rest easy, king. That is what ChatGPT was telling this guy who was contemplating suicide. And so, you know, you have already societal reverberations. we have no idea what the impact of where we are already is going to be on people's mental health on their you know on the development like brain development of youth on all of our brains and what you know what it's going to rob from us in terms of our like humanity and basic ability to to think and so you've got already these cases that are just absolutely horrifying of chat gpt openly pushing people towards suicide yeah i saw a great uh i talked yeah allegedly allegedly allegedly there with ChatGPT, who of course maintains that they did nothing wrong.

28:11And we will pay attention, of course, to the court findings with these many of these cases. But I saw a great analysis, which said, what if 50 % of all of our problems is housing, 25 % is obesity, and 25 % is smartphones? I was like, you know, honestly, those three, Those are three like major pillars. If you talk about health, if you talk about mental health, and then you talk about ability to live, to thrive, which basically determines everything downstream from there. Yeah. I think that's kind of it. And there were like if you focus physical, mental wealth. I mean, come on. These are the building blocks of society.

28:50Like what if the solution to the vast, vast majority of all our problems is cheap and affordable housing, making sure that people are healthy, making sure that people are social? I just was looking at a new statistic. The amount of people who socialize who are 18 to 24 is down 70 percent in the last 20 years. 70 percent. That's insane. And a lot of this, you know, breeds the very addictions, which I demonize here every day on a daily basis. Marijuana, pornography, sports gambling, okay? It's not a secret where it all comes from. It's built, you know, everything is downstream really from the smartphone.

29:28A lot of radical politics is downstream from the smartphone. A lot of, all of our problems is downstream from what's happening with the smartphone. So I really just think, you know, we gotta laser focus in on what the sociological data that's coming out from a lot of this is. And this AI stuff, like if you feel afraid of it, you should be. Like if you feel uneasy, you should be. Trust yourself. Like don't trust the experts and everybody telling you that everything's going to be fine. Because also if you listen to them, whenever they're in their little conferences, they talk about how everything's not going to be fine, about how humanity could be destroyed.

30:05Every job will be erased and all that. You get a voice in your own economy and in your own life. Like you got to use it. You really do. Like focus in on this stuff. I mean I do think that's why the data center fight is so important because it's this physical embodiment. You know, it's like with the product rollouts, it's hard to know, OK, well, what is this new version of chat GPT going to do? And how do I how do I navigate it? I mean, even the people who are designing it don't really understand it, don't really know what like level of awareness and potential consciousness or potential intelligence that it has at this point.

30:36What level of, you know, deceptive behaviors that it engages in. And so those of us who are not technical experts are really at a loss to understand just how profound the impact is already of what's available. And so when you have these data centers that are creating clear, like measurable harm in people's economic lives and in their communities, I think it's such an important focal point of the pushback, which is why we've been focusing intently on it. And I'm heartened to see that there are some who are politically starting to pick it up at the national level. because you also are starting to see some of the job fall out.

31:13Put E7 up on the screen. White-collar hiring is negative. Now, this is probably not all AI, but some of it likely is AI. And Derek Thompson says here, Since 1940, the number of Americans working in professional and business services, sort of a white-collar super sector, has turned negative year over year 10 times. The first nine were during recessions. The 10th time is right now. Now, he goes on to say, you might expect me to say it's AI. The timing really looks like a surge of hiring around 2021 was unwound, combined with high interest rates, slowing job growth, slowing population growth, but sure, maybe AI, too.

31:46I think AI is certainly an important part of the story, especially when you take a look at the next piece, E8, which is young unemployment also spiking. These would be the entry-level workers who would be most immediately impacted by AI and companies implementing AI and pushing more work onto their existing workforce versus bringing in a new cohort. So this is Stephen Ratner. He says unemployment rate for 20 to 24-year-olds is now 9.2%. That's the highest level since 2016. And I think the expectation is that that will continue to rise. New college graduate unemployment rates continue to move up as well.

32:24So these are the early stages of the fallout that we're already being able to discern in the job market numbers. We've got to watch it closely. Some of it is AI. Some of it is just interest rates. But the whole point is bad. Tariff uncertainty, all of that. It's just bad. And these people are getting filthy rich even if they do pop. And one of the things I have been thinking about so much is like they cannot let this shit fail. Like the whole country has every American who has a retirement portfolio. you bet on AI whether you know it or not. If you are reliant on interest rates or any of that, you're also betting on AI.

33:02The whole nation is in on this without actually really any say. All of our technological life, everything has got into this. So if it does fail, it will be a bust, which could drag everything down. And that's why I said also, you've got a lot of poor Americans who are like always rooting for a crash. But what they always forget is like, you're going to be the first victim. You know, they'll cut you first. The first layoffs, the first reduction in the amount of money. The people who will get bailed out and will be okay. Yeah, Alex Karp and Palantir. Sure, their stock could go down 100%. It's already up by two.

33:37Like they're multi-billionaires already. Got the cash. A lot of these folks like, they're all going to be fine. That's the stuff that really worries me the most. Yeah, and we were all techno optimists at the beginning of like the, you know, the social media waves and smartphone whatever i didn't have any reluctance about it i just saw it as as positive period end of story like this is great i mean there's some you know the arab spring and the hope of like oh this democratic engagement i mean but that was real that was the way people genuinely felt you know the election of barack obama and oh my god we're gonna that was the dream of the internet was that it actually would have like a flattening effect that it would create more like small d democratic flourishing where ordinary people would get to have more of a say and you know instead we've actually what we've actually seen is consolidation of like authoritarianism and flourishing of like you know internet induced psychosis and mental illness which you can see on your timeline literally any day consolidation of wealth in the hands of a very few people and um you know all sorts of effects on children and brain development um that you know we were never warned about.

34:42Like the people who were selling us this technology never said, you know, it may come with some downsides. So you certainly shouldn't trust them at this point to give you the full story about what AI is going to look like either. And again, the truth is they don't know. They don't know either. You know, the goal is to replace all of us. That's their goal. So that's, you know, that's if it succeeds. If it fails, then we've got this giant bubble and economic calamity. It looks very grim either way. All right, guys, we talked a lot during the show, Emily and Crystal are going to cover the Adelson section tomorrow, so that will be a fun discussion.

35:16Let's listen now to our interview with the APAC Tracker founders, and then we're going to do our AMA later for our premium subscribers. See you all later. Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated, and Black America is at a breaking point. Rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L.

35:52Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, In the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

36:35Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway. We are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

37:01What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated.

37:38Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

37:59So as you guys surely know, AIPAC and the Israel lobby more broadly have become lightning rods in American politics in no small part thanks to this website. Let's put this up on the screen where you can go and you can check out various members of Congress, various candidates and see just how much money they have taken from AIPAC or from the Israel lobby overall. You now have even centrist Democrats like Seth Moulton saying they are no longer going to take APAC funds. And we are very fortunate to be joined this morning for their first public interview ever by the co-founders of Citizens Against APAC Corruption.

38:37We have Corey Archibald and Casey Kennedy. Welcome, guys. Thanks so much for having us. Yeah, of course. So I want to get a little bit of your backstory, what you think the impact of the organization has been. But first, just tell us a little bit about yourselves. And you've been anonymous up to this point. What made you decide, Corey, I'll start with you to come forward in this moment? Sure. Well, so a little bit about me. I started working in progressive politics in 2017. I worked, I was chair of the board of Brand New Congress for six years, and I worked on a lot of progressive campaigns. I helped work on AOC's initial campaign for Congress.

39:14I worked with Cori Bush on her first two runs for Congress and also Jamal Bowen and a number of others, but those three in particular are really close to me. I, through that, that's how I got to be really familiar with the work that APAC is doing and their influence on our elections. And so that's, you know, kind of where I got started in this process. What about you? Yeah, how about you, Casey? So I've been working in the digital marketing space for about 10 years now. I've done both private sector work and I've worked on political campaigns for, like, city council and a local congressional race.

39:49basically how I got into the AIPAC sphere was actually back in 2020 is the first time I watched the documentary The Lobby it's a deep dive investigative piece they go undercover and really do let they pull back the curtain on AIPAC and how they're pressuring our government to tow the policy of the far-right extremist Israeli government when I saw that in 2020 it really stuck with me because anti-corruption measures have always been kind of the driving front of my personal politics and after seeing that and then if I ever talked to anybody else about it they didn't really know what I was talking about so it just was like a glaring uh like red flag like something why isn't anybody talking about this yeah um so that was always in my mind and then of course the genocide starts picking up after October 7th really starts escalating we have a live stream genocide and still nobody's connecting these dots of why are our officials okay with being complicit in this?

40:46Why are we sending American tax dollars to be used for war crimes? Why are we sending American-made weapons to murder women and children and innocent civilians? So I just started doing some digging for myself, and I was kind of surprised to see how the information was always accessible, but it just wasn't maybe easily accessible or, like, broadly pushed out anywhere. So that's when I had the idea to start a Twitter account. um just in yeah track eight pack we started that in uh april of 2024 right and within about a month we had a hundred thousand followers so people were just like it was shocking watching how quickly it became a thing and i know i'm assuming you're but you know you may be surprised it's become a right wing lightning rod as well you know we've definitely fallen okay good good i mean you know that's part of the reason i was also interested in talking to you is because like did you guys anticipate you know from the beginning you came together you created this it has become like a genuine like when you quote tweet a politician or something this may seem a little foreign for any of our listeners who are not on twitter but i mean this is where elite discourse happens right this is where most people who are battling it on the so-called sphere of ideas so what was the impetus of creating the graphics the tracker and then were you surprised how quickly it caught on so pretty much the idea was to take a complex topic and put it into a format that could be, um, this one, it could digest within like two seconds of looking at it.

42:11Um, everybody wants to say that the Israel-Palestine conflict is complicated. It's not, it's really not. Um, the reason that our officials are towing this line is because they are in the pocket of foreign interests who pressure them to do so. Um, I was definitely surprised to see how quickly it caught on, but given how the, just the amount of atrocities that everybody's seen. I think everybody was kind of looking for like the reason, like the actual, why is this happening? Well, and to Sagar's point, anytime you'll see an official, you know, say something shitty and then below it, inevitably someone is sharing your graphics saying, well, this is why, like, look at all the money that they're taking.

42:55If it's not our own account, it's certainly other people that are sharing our graphics. Yeah, that's exactly right. That's how we've seen how quickly it has spread. I mean, not only have we seen the graphics showing up everywhere, they're showing up in Texas. We're not on TikTok, but our content is all over TikTok. It is. It's everywhere. And, you know, we really started to see the difference in how elected officials began to engage because of the change we were having on the dialogue. We started to see you mentioned Seth Moulton. You know, he came out recently, said he was rejecting APAC money.

43:24Well, we actually had a response to that. And we said, OK, well, you know, we're not impressed yet. So you can't tweet your way out of supporting a genocide. So you're going to have to we're going to see some proof from your votes. Yeah. But there are other elected members who have in the past taken APAC support. They are now rejecting it. More and more candidates are running on an anti-APAC platform. We have people that come to us and ask us to help vet candidates. And we even have members of Congress that have reached out to us and wanted a dialogue. Really? Yeah. So, I mean, that's a lot of how we know the impact that we're making.

43:57Well, that's real power. That's how you go from a Twitter account to being actually influential. Absolutely. Which is kind of amazing to watch. It's never existed before. It's pretty incredible the amount of people who have reached out through our DMs, like many members of Congress. I'm not going to say who they are, but if any other member of Congress wants to reach out, we're always happy to have a dialogue. Well, and Casey, let me ask you a little bit more about this Seth Moulton piece, because there's also some reporting that first he went to AIPAC. And when they were like, yeah, we're not going to give you money, he was like, I hate AIPAC.

44:27I'm totally not taking AIPAC money. This is exactly why we didn't throw out the colossal amount of praise for him. Like, thank you for calling out that AIPAC is a corrupting force. Yes. But what would you say? Like, what's the next question to ask? Because AIPAC also, it's important for people to understand, AIPAC has kind of become the catch-all. They're not the only part of the Israel lobby, though. In a lot of Democratic primaries, there's this group, DMFI, that Ryan Grimm, our colleague, has done tons of the best reporting on. in fact. But, you know, so what is once you get, OK, here's this money to interest, APAC, what is the next question to ask that politician if they're now able to check the box?

45:03OK, I'm not going to take APAC dollars because we've also seen some reporting that maybe what happens is the individual APAC donors give the money so they can technically say they're taking APAC money, but they're really getting, you know, still the same amount from the same group of people. So this is actually part of the work that we're doing through the PAC is we're actually expanding on the data project that we started with with track apac we are going to be beefing up that infrastructure and and digging deeper because certainly it didn't start with uh the more recent rejections of of apac with the apac brand becoming as toxic as it has at this point they have always funneled donors directly to the back door but not to the same degree that we're starting to see it now we're starting to see reporting about um about you know leaked emails where they're just directing people straight to secret donation pages.

45:51So knowing that that's happening, we are going to be expanding our data infrastructure so that we can more accurately report the full picture to see these individual donors also get folded into the numbers. There's the individual donors, the ADL. There's an entire network of this. We've gone up against it. We've faced significant obstacles. So I'm curious, what's it been like on the receiving end to this. I mean, they will, they will, they'll go after you. Well, we're starting to feel that. And that's why we're here. So I would probably go back about a month ago. Um, Apex are going on a tirade on Twitter.

46:26They were tagging us, replying to a bunch of our posts, quoting us, trying to invalidate our data, um, trying to smear O 'Connor for, um, praising our work and it didn't really work out for them. So I guess they just went away. But interestingly enough, about a week after that is when we started seeing my information be posted into our replies. So it was like my picture, some information. I ran for a Democratic Central Committee office a few years ago. So that's how they found some of my basic details. And they didn't really have anything else to go on, but they're just kind of spinning up all sorts of different narratives about who I might be or who I'm working for.

47:05So that was just kind of interesting to see. It was very obviously an organized effort. Like we could see which accounts were kind of... Same talking points. Yeah. So who do you work for then? I work for myself. Okay. You guys work for the PAC? Yeah, we work for the PAC, I guess. Yeah, I mean, well, actually, the work that we're doing to the PAC currently is on a volunteer basis. I mean, we've been really focused on building our war chest. We both have other work that we do, but we've been focused on building our war chest for the last year has been my focus. While Casey's been driving the data transparency project, I've been driving the kind of fundraising and building up our resources because we do intend.

47:41Can I get the inevitables out of the way? No foreign funding. No foreign funding. Zero foreign funding. No Qatari funding. No Qatari funding. No Qatari funding. None. Okay. We're sure. We're 100 % sure. Zero. Soros. Soros. Never met the man. Never met the man. Don't know anything about him. Okay. Who else? Who are the other boogies? You're on the right. I don't know. You can tell me who you people are concerned about. Let me think. I think that's pretty much it. That's pretty much it. So it's just, you know, normal Americans who are upset. Exactly. Exactly. Yep. Okay. What role do you hope that your organization plays in?

48:12And I think, you know, it seems like there's sort of a Democratic Tea Party that's brewing. Zora Mamdani's victory in New York City was a major earthquake in terms of national politics, in terms of Democratic Party politics specifically. You know, what what role do you all hope to play in the forthcoming primary season? Yeah, well, we set out to really make the to make working with APAC a political liability. That is that has been our primary focus. That was how the TRAC-APAC project started. And then I founded the PAC and we got introduced by Mutual Connection, brought the two, realized immediately like our work was very synchronous and decided to merge our efforts into one thing.

48:52So that's now what we lead together. But that's the goal really is we want to make working with APAC a political liability. And that's the reason why it's in the name, TRAC-APAC, Citizens Against APAC Corruption. We're coming straight at them. When I saw what they did to Andy Levin, when I saw the way that they have smeared and attacked Bernie Sanders repeatedly, when I saw what they did and the money that they spent against Cori Bush and Jamal Bowman to take them down, I was so furious as a person who worked in this space that no one was going on offense against APAC or that there wasn't, I can't say no one, that there wasn't enough of a forcible offense against APAC.

49:28And that's what we set out to do, to go on offense. Well, I was telling you last week I interviewed Summer Lee, who is a representative from Pittsburgh, and had just put out like the most mild tweet about Israel. One tweet, one time, about Israel. And that was enough for the Israel lobby to come in and spend millions of dollars against her. She narrowly wins. She was able to overcome it. She narrowly won. And she said, you know, I think now it would be different because at that time there just wasn't a level of awareness. And now, obviously, the genocide live streamed in all of our feeds is the biggest part of the awareness of just how horrific this country is.

50:05And, you know, the policies coming from this country, our own politicians' complicity, whether it's Democrats or Republicans, with the atrocities that are being committed by Israel. But you guys really helped to sort of coalesce this understanding of the inner workings. So I just want to say, like, thank you for doing that work. It's been incredibly important. It's been very useful for us as journalists. Yeah. when I'm interviewing, you know, when we're interviewing a senator, it's helpful to have right there exactly where they're taking money from. Sometimes you clip some of my spiciest content and then other people, it can cause a lot of problems in my personal life.

50:40Yeah. But, okay, so this is the last question, I think, about the inevitable, anti-Semitism, okay? So, you know, that's part of the criticism I hear. Hey, it's anti-Semitic to say AIPAC should register as a foreign lobby. These are American citizens. They're rightfully spending their money as they would like. What's your response to that? Is it anti-Semitic to track APAC funding? Why aren't you tracking Nigerian funding or any of these other things? I would say it is not anti-Semitic to stand against an ongoing genocide that's being perpetrated with American backing, American tax dollars and American weapons.

51:12What we're doing here is taking information that's always been publicly accessible, but making it more easily accessible and digestible for the public. And I would guess that you guys would support the tracking of other money in politics. 100%. As well, yeah. And you can look at our, we have a track oil packs, which has recently started up. So that's kind of our next target is the big oil lobby. Yeah. And I mean, I have working in progressive politics as I have, I've always worked with candidates that stood against corporate PAC money. It's actually one of the litmus tests for candidates that would like to get an endorsement from us is one of the questions we have is, is will you support overturning of Citizens United and standing against corporate money and politics?

51:48It's very important to both of us. And that is actually my last question is you guys are backing a slate of candidates. We are. What are the specific criteria that they have to meet to be considered for your endorsement? So these are candidates who are going to reject money and support from AIPAC and their allies. So that would not be just AIPAC. It's the other groups like DMFI, RJC, if they're on the Republican side. There's a whole slate of other groups. We also asked them if they would support enforcing the Leahy laws to make sure that we're not sending weapons to be used in war crimes. We asked them if they support Palestinian statehood for the U.S.

52:24to stop blocking such votes at the U.N. Do they consider it a genocide? What's happening? That's a deal breaker if they don't. Yeah, yeah. And then, of course, Citizens United because that's really a key to getting big money out of politics. Interesting. Amazing. Well, if you guys want a different type of politics, you know, they've created incredible resources for you all to go and see who the candidates are, who the, you know, members of Congress are, who's, what kind of money has been flowing into their coffers, so that you guys can choose candidates that, you know, ultimately align with your values.

52:57And I have personally, you know, consulted your resources. I will make, you know, contributions at times to candidates. And if they're not on your list, they're not going to be on my list. There you go. We love that. At the end of the day, it's public data. That's all you did. It is. Exactly. You know, for all the people who are freaking out about it, like, sorry. All right. And if people want to support the work we're doing, as I said, we've been building up our war chest. we're still building it if they want to support the work that they're doing that we're doing we can go to uh citizens against apac.com or track apac.com either one of those we have a donate button right there and any contributions are helpful like we're we're really focused on being able to make a big play in some of these upcoming primaries amazing thank you guys great to meet you both appreciate it thank you

53:49Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by black people because of what happened in Alabama? This Black History Month, the podcast Selective Ignorance with Mandy B unpacks black history and culture with comedy, clarity and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

54:22I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead-up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, We are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

54:571969, Malcolm and Martin are gone. America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King Sr. It's the true story of protest and rebellion in Black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.