11/13/25: Trump Freaks On Epstein Vote, Full Epstein Email Breakdown

24:25What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul. a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated.

25:03some guests have answers most are still figuring it out if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

25:24Oh, I mean, obviously that's why they didn't want to do it who would want to be the person who has to vote against this good luck to you By the way, anybody want to remind me about some senators who are up for reelection, let's say, in a year, in 2026? Like why would you gift that to your opponent? If you're running against Sherrod Brown, good luck. If you're running in some of these closer races, if you're John Ossoff or any of these folks, this is great fodder for you to be like, I voted for the release. And this is what, again, these MAGA folks for weeks, remember? They were like, MAGA forgives Trump on Epstein files.

26:02And I was like, here's what you guys didn't understand. There is a whole cohort of people who definitely voted MAGA or were MAGA adjacent in 2024 because MAGA was seen as a revolutionary kind of insurrectionist movement against the establishment. Epstein was actually a big part of that because it was like he's different. He's going to release the Epstein files because he's saying I'm above the fray of this like global ring of elites, right? And so when they started doing the cover-up, that was actually a major disillusionment. I think for a lot of younger people, I would say especially young men.

26:39I mean if you already feel like the system is rigged against you and that people in high places do stuff you could never imagine and you saw eyes wide shut and your life is being disenfranchised. It's like not only is it easy to believe it's actually quite literally true in this case. Well, when you start acting like those people, and in particular, you're covering up any of the Israel connections and any of that stuff, you're like, new boss, same as the old boss. That's – I mean if anything, you ask me where Trump's real like fault comes from in terms of like a lot of his political popularity.

27:10It's the new boss, same as the old boss mentality. Like Israel war continues. Ukraine war unsolved. A lot of the foreign policy looks cookie-cutter neocon just like out of the last administration or anything. I keep saying he's like Biden. That's the whole problem is if people hate Biden, they don't want anything like that. Oh, actually, your life is fine. Let me show you some bullshit chart about why the S &P 500 is up, and that means that your life is getting better. No, that's quite literally the opposite. And I could go on in every facet of this. I'm just talking about Epstein. Brett Weinstein, a major Maha guy, he was recently on Rogan.

27:42He's like, yeah, Maha has been a failure. Like basically, whenever it comes to RFK Jr., right? And for them, mRNA was like a big thing. Like RFK being like, I'm going to withdraw the mRNA vaccine. It's just, it has not happened. Like literally, period, end of story. They can end up make all kinds of excuses and talk about food dyes and steak and shake all you want. Like the singular thing that you said was going to happen quite literally didn't happen. Tulsi's the DNI director. She was supposed to come in and be a bomb thrower, right? Yeah. Oh, okay. She barely exists. Yeah, exactly. Where is she?

28:10She barely exists. All my reporting suggests is she's out in the outs, all right? CIA director John Ratcliffe, who's like much more of an establishment guy, he sees control. She, you know, Trump is mad at her about the Hiroshima video. She's like a side character fighting for relevance right now. So that's just, you know, stacking on top of each other, like the more revolutionary parts, so-called MAG and all that. It's been a year, like the rubber hit the road and now you kind of know who's running the show. So that's just, that's why I think the Epstein story continues to matter. And I mean - It's such a blow to his brand.

28:43Yeah, exactly. And nobody gets how important a brand is more than Donald Trump. And it is, I mean, it's a devastating blow to his brand as this renegade outsider going to expose the corrupt elite. Like, think about the fantasies of QAnon, you know, and the storm is coming and all this idea that all the corrupt elites were going to be swept up and arrested. And it was going to be a new day and this sort of moral cleansing and purification was going to occur. and then it's like no actually this guy is not only going to cover up the epstein files but he is in like all over the epstein files he was this man's bestie for years and years and years and you don't think there was going to be anything there on him obviously not to mention he always acted weird and shady when he would get asked directly about it he could never give a straightforward like unequivocal answer when he would get asked about are you going to release the jfk files yes absolutely are you gonna release the abstain files well maybe less so there may be other you know i don't want innocent people to be harmed blah blah blah so you know it was always there if you wanted to open your eyes and see it but a lot of people did not and so to your point about the the damage to his presidency again sort of like with the authoritarianism you know what people would put up with a lot of him being shady and buddies with jeffrey epstein and all over these emails and whatever, if they were like, but I can buy a house.

30:03But my kids' lives look great now. Their jobs are not actually going to be stolen by a band of robots that are going to destroy society. My electric bill is going down, actually. Life is measurably better in ways that I am experiencing personally. If people felt like things were going great, and yeah, I guess the president was at the very least knew about this ring, pedophile ring, and at the worst was directly implicated in it. What are you going to do, right? It's the guy we got. At least my life is getting better. But when the president's a creep, the economy is cratering, and you've got all this authoritarian bullshit, mass thugs in the streets and all of that nonsense as well, and the foreign policy landscape is an utter and complete disaster.

30:48When you put all of that to, what are you giving people to hang on to some like, you know, owning the libs, quote unquote, based social media videos and an announcement about steak and shake. Like that's, that's what we're supposed to hang our hat on here is the golden age. Oh, congratulations. So, and I think for the podcast world in particular, you know, Epstein obviously was a major focal point and it just was impossible for them to really defend. So, you know, in terms of the, you know, some of the podcast bros that were directly supportive of Trump going into this election, you know, that really was the start of them having to start to say some critical things and having to turn in a somewhat different direction, which is influential.

31:30I mean, I'm not saying they're like the only reason he got elected, but they do have power in society. And especially with this group of young men who were very important in the Trump coalition. That's what people just, you know, really just don't get. And so, you know, bringing back to the point, I actually think one of Trump's powers, superpowers always was like a directional honesty is that he would lie, kind of tell the truth. And so, do you remember, um, like in the 2015 campaign, that famous line when he was like, you think we're so innocent, you know, it was like, wow, like nobody talks like that.

32:00Nobody, no American president has been like, yeah, we're shady too. Right. And everyone was like, yeah, exactly. He's right. Uh, on a lot of his divorces and his own conduct, you know, for years, one of the superpowers was he had no shame. He would just call the New York Post. I mean, don't you remember some of those headlines like best sex I ever had or whatever with Marla Maples? He would pretend to be his PR guy. Yeah, he would pretend to be his PR guy, right? He was absolutely shameless. And that's why people were like, oh, he's lewd and cheats on his wife. He's like, yeah, so? He never hid it.

32:31Yeah, right. He never hid anything. So even here, if he was like, yeah, I was friends with him. I had a rambunctious youth, even though he was like 55. I mean, that's like what RFK Jr. did. It kind of works, you know? It happened with me. I interviewed RFK and I was like, hey, like this nanny says that, you know, you groped her or whatever. And he's like, I had a crazy youth. I was like, wow, what an answer. He was like 40 or whatever. I was like, whoa. But I mean, it worked, right? And so for Trump, like that's a twice divorced man who owned Miss Universe pageants and has a long history from, you know, from the tape of 2016 and prior.

33:09Like that's part of the reason I don't think the tape was the hit that most people thought. He's like, he never pretended to be anything that he wasn't. But in this case, he actually did kind of pretend, right? He was friends with Epstein. It's obvious. It's not a good look. He could just say something like, yeah, you know, we party, we chase girls together. But I never knew or saw anything crazy. At this point, though, doubling, tripling down. And especially, I think, by the way, it's not just about Trump. Because Trump, as you say, is always kind of ambiguous. I think it's like Kash Patel, Pam Bondi, and Jade, you know, all these other people who used Epstein to political advantage to rally people to their cause.

33:42And then they're silent, right? And that, see that I actually think really rubs people the wrong way. Or directly in the cover up like Cash. Right. And so that's what really bugs. I mean, I can't, can I say like for me in particular, watching like Cash and all them literally go on podcasts, you know, tours talking about, we know exactly where the Epstein files are. And then Dubrow, you come into office and you say, believe me, I would tell you with your bug eyes, you know, it's like, no, I don't believe you. Pam Bondi. Right. Pam Bondi. I'm sitting on my desk. I have them on my desk, right? And then weeks later, oh, actually, there are no Epstein files and there's nothing to see here when we're moving on.

34:11So it's like, well, which one time when were you lying? Because you did lie. There's just no there's no world where you didn't lie. They put some of the facts and all that stuff together. So, yeah, for a year from not years. It's only been a year. It feels like years. But for weeks, there was this whole discourse about how MAGA doesn't care about Epstein. And maybe that's true. But this is what I always say. MAGA did not win Trump the election. All right. MAGA is only like 33 % of the country. 80-something million people did vote for Donald Trump. He won a popular vote victory in the election.

34:43Not all of them are MAGA. Go ask them. They'll tell you I'm not MAGA or I'm an independent or I was voting for this, that, and that reason. The coalition that they were the most proud of, and they should be proud when young people vote for you. I think that's inspiring because it's just like, oh, the next generation believes in the stuff that I have to say. I think this is important to them. I think it's important to them. I think our show, our long focus on Epstein, and of course, I mean, I won't lie, we've been rewarded for it, you know, a lot through ratings and through all this other stuff.

35:10I think it's because the reason why it became a podcast thing is because, by the way, even to this day, you can't go on CNN and just say he was an Israeli asset. Like, even then, people would go, what? Without evidence, sir, you're speaking, right? Like, that's why it goes big on the podcast because we can just speak the way that every normal person can look at the facts. Yeah. It's obvious. The New York Times, I mean, one of the things that comes out of these emails is that you have a New York Times reporter who worked there for like 15 years, who's basically working with Epstein to try and quash different stories and talk about black men.

35:42It's like, bro, what the fuck? Well, and that gets to the point of you were saying your assumption was basically like, listen, they've been out to get Trump. You know, they've been wanting to take down Trump for a long time. This something, if there was there, there, something would have come out. But that discounts how much these media outlets were implicated, you know, in terms of the cover up. It it, of course, erases the number of Democrats who are involved here as well. And so I think it's the case that there was just a bipartisan disinterest, like directly, you know, going in their own self-interest.

36:17Like, we're just going to not talk about this. One of the emails is where Epstein and Michael Wolff are going back and forth about like, oh, I think CNN in 2015 is going to ask Trump a question about you. And so they're like brainstorming, you know, well, what would be the perfect answer? And by the way, Wolff, I think it is, suggests that hopefully Trump will say some things that are untrue because then you'll have leverage on him. I mean, directly plotting like here's how we're going to this president is compromised and it'd be good for us. So this potential president at that point is compromised.

36:50It'd be good for us if we have some dirt on him. We can use it to our own advantage here. But in any case, CNN didn't ask that question. So I noticed that they didn't they didn't end up asking that question. So somewhere along the way, if if they were planning to that particular question got spiked and didn't make it in. So that's why we can be all these years later and you feel like you must know everything there is to know about Donald Trump. And we are learning more and more and more. I'm not cynical enough because, you know, intellectually, you know, you read the Manson book, right? The Tom, I'm totally blanking on the name, but it's an incredible book.

37:27You read that Tom O 'Neill, that's his name, the guy who wrote the book. You read that Manson book and you're like, wow, so even 40 years later, people will cover this shit up. And intellectually, I know JFK, for example, it's been 60 something years since the assassination. And even though we like basically know, you know, the cover up and the plots and all of that, but we don't know for sure. Right. Like we know enough to reasonably guess. And I say it obviously points in one direction. But in real time, it's like even when you're a very cynical person like me, you're like, oh, I assume something would have come out, you know, by now.

37:58And I'm like, I don't know, man. You know, look at the CNN stuff, the New York Times. And you're like, yeah, it's like, you know, to borrow my own words, when we said the richest and most powerful people, we meant it. And it really is a conspiracy of silence, of intelligence, of just like the sketchiest, the sketchiest stuff. And, you know, what comes through to the emails to me, and again, I knew this at an intellectual level, but the depraved nature through which these guys act in private is so disgusting. I don't care what time it is, like what time period, and even if it was 20 years ago. Like when you read that birthday book, remember that one about the guys with masks on talking about rape fantasies?

38:41You're like, I'm sorry. Like that's not normal. Like that's really, really not normal. and psychotic. 90 % of the birthday book entries were all about his sex life. And what was for his 50th birthday? Is that right? It's like, I mean, disgusting. That was like, when that came out, I was like, oh, QAnon was actually kind of low key onto something. I know. That's what I'm saying. You're talking about directional cracks. Yes. Yes. They were just wrong to put Trump as their hero at the center of that story. And I think, you know, some of them are realizing that. I mean, Marjorie Taylor Greene was a QAnon person, and now here she is signing on to the discharge petition very much at odds with Trump and kind of in the crosshairs from the administration.

39:23But, you know, when you think about Trump's life and the characters he ran with, not just Epstein, John Casablancus, who was a pioneer in making the modeling industry basically like a global human trafficking industry and exploiting these young girls, known pedophile himself. and Trump was close with him. And, you know, Trump had his own modeling agency and, you know, reportedly modeled some of his practices after Casablanca puts his own daughter, by the way, into this industry when she's like 13, 14 years old, which given what you had to know about it is so beyond disturbing. He bragged about, you know, in his beauty pageants, how he could go in and since he owned them, you know, he could go into the dressing room and check out all these girls.

40:10You know, there's now there's this reporting about the party that he threw with that was supposed to be with all these models, young models and a bunch of VIPs. And then the only person he invites is Jeffrey Epstein. All these girls who thought that this was going to be their break and there'd be a bunch of like rich, famous, you know, influential people that they could get hired for gigs, etc. And then it's just freaking Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. We know without a doubt that they were super close friends for years and years. You know, all of this is out there. Trump himself confirmed that Virginia Gouffre worked at Mar-a-Lago and Ghislaine Maxwell comes in and, you know, and takes her.

40:48And that's how she ends up being in the Epstein world and herself being trafficked and abused. So, you know, once you start to open your eyes to all of these things and then it just really been then we'll get into the emails here. It really bears underscoring why this matters. Obviously, from a moral character perspective, it matters a lot. OK, that's one thing. We're talking about a president of the United States who was compromised by an Israeli intelligence asset. That's what we're talking about here. I mean, whatever Trump is afraid of coming out right now, he knew that Jeffrey, whatever deep, dark secrets he has that he doesn't want to come out, which I think is undeniable at this point, given what we know and his behavior.

41:33He knew that Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, by the way, had that information on him. And you have to assume, whether it's true or not, that that information was shared with the Israelis. You have to assume that. We know, and Ryan brought this up, that the Israelis used the Monica Lewinsky tapes against Clinton to coerce his behavior. Oh, you think they're above? Of course not. Like, that's their whole MO. Oh, so we have in the White House, it looks like someone who is compromised by Israel. And, you know, there was all the Russiagate stuff in the first administration theorized. And by the way, you know, there's also emails here between Epstein talking about his like, you know, diplomacy with Russian leaders as well.

42:20So I think it actually is fair to assume that Trump thinks that they probably do have something on him as well. But, you know, in a lot of ways, everybody was looking in the wrong direction. So that's that's why, you know, the Trump focus here is so important because this is such an incredible I mean, this is the president of the United States, maybe the most powerful person in the world. And you have to assume that he thinks Israel has some sort of devastating dirt on him. And there's only one way to prove that you don't, which is by releasing it all. That's the only way at this point to prove that you don't.

42:54And I think that's why I get it. And instead, go to an extraordinary length. I know that this stuff sounds outlandish, but it's like, dude, you know, if you look like you're in a full-blown cover up here, you know, either for yourself or your friends or whatever, it's like, yeah, this is politics. People are going to assume the absolute worst. Like, you set up the— Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated. And Black America is at a breaking point. Rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale.

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44:46What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Fake when it's complicated.

45:24Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

45:43conditions through which people are going to assume that type of stuff. So I don't know. I mean, it's dark. It's very, very dark. Turning now to the emails themselves, which we've been teasing here for a little while, let's actually get into some of them. Crystal and Emily went into the three big ones that happened yesterday, which you'll recall, but it's actually worth knowing the House Oversight Committee ended up releasing some 22 ,000 new pages. Now, I want to say at the top, Part of the difficulty for people like us is that they have put them out as individual images, not as searchable PDFs.

46:17So we have to individually go through all 22 ,000 files. It would take weeks if not months to actually go and read. I've done my best, and we have collated a lot of stuff here that various researchers and all of them have flagged. But we want to give you a fulsome taste here of some of the Trump stuff that remains in the emails. Let's put the first one up here on the screen. This is B2 actually, guys. Let's just jump ahead to there. Jeffrey Epstein, this was a June of 2019 email where Epstein says specifically, quote, recall Prince Andrew's accuser came out of Mar-a-Lago. So this is Virginia Gouffre.

46:52And this is in a text chain that was with Steve Bannon. So this was from June of 2019. And saying, quote, can't believe nobody is making you the connective tissue. And he says specifically Prince Andrew and Trump today, too funny. So presumably there was some meeting. There was a meeting between Prince Andrew and Trump that day. Right. So that's what Epstein and Bannon are like joking about. I mean, this is only months before he's dead in federal prison and indicted. Just flagging that one. Let's go to the next one. This is nuts. So this was a email chain with Landon Thomas Jr., who is a New York Times reporter who worked there for years, who it turns out had this deep and long relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.

47:41And he's sending him some stuff specifically about the Trump campaign, kind of asking him for some questions here about previous BuzzFeed news articles about Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. And what he says is, my 20-year-old girlfriend in 93, that after two years I gave to Donald. So what that shows is, you'll recall, Michael Wolfe and others had talked specifically about this girlfriend that they appear to have shared or whatever who was 20 years old in the year 1993. There were several jokes about that and being depreciated in the birthday book, which you will also recall. Just again, you know, to show some of the relationship.

48:22Let's go to the next one. This one is in emails with Michael Wolfe, the quote unquote journalist. Yeah, I mean, the emails from Wolfe here are like a secondary conversation about how disgusting that is. But anyway, he says, well, I guess if there's anybody who can wave this away, it's Donald. Let me know if there's anything I can do. This is from Michael Wolff about the lawsuit. This is in relationship to the lawsuit from an accuser, I believe named Katie Johnson, who alleged that both Trump and Epstein had raped her when she was 12, 13 years old. Yeah, that's right. So this was in the lawsuit.

48:57So he's talking about, well, if anyone could wave this lawsuit away, it's Donald. I guess he was right. Okay. First time, anyway. Next time, let's put this up here on the screen. This is for Epstein on Donald Trump. Quote, he feels alone and is nuts. I told everyone from day one, evil beyond belief, mad. So it sounds like he had TDS. Most thought I was speaking metaphorically. It's obvious he could crack Stormy Daniels, question mark. Lies after lies. Yeah. Jeffrey Epstein is lecturing you on morality, like what you have gone seriously wrong somewhere in your life. Next one. This is from 2015.

49:34Again, Landon Thomas Jr. Who I think was fired because of his relationship with Epstein. Right. And so he emails him about the infamous quote, I've known Jeffrey Epstein for 15 years. And Epstein replies, read the Buzzfeed. Must be Buzzfeed. Buzzfeed. Ari, airplane logs, Hawaiian contest. Have them ask my house man about Donald, presumably, almost walking through the door, leaving his nose print on the glass as young women were swimming in the pool. He was so focused, it walked straight into the door. Pause on that one for a second, because he's talking about, so they're talking about Trump. Landon Thomas Jr.

50:13says, now everyone coming to me thinking I have juicy info on you and Trump because of this, the story will never die. And then Epstein replies, read the BuzzFeed, read my airplane logs and Hawaiian tropic contest, so some sort of a beauty contest, and then have them ask my houseman about Donald almost walking through and leave as young girls, blah, blah, blah. So anyway, he's gesturing towards some of the dirt that he would have on Trump. Right, that was in an exchange about that. Okay, so let's go to the next one. This was about Ghislaine and more, or sorry, this one was a very weird email from a victim where they say, I'm at the door, I will wait for my time.

50:52I don't want to come early to find Trump in your house. Laughing emoji, laughing emoji. This is from 2017 in December. There is no evidence, because Trump was president at this time, about a visit. I mean, you can't really go anywhere without the White House press corps. but I guess they were still joking about it or alluding to something while at this time period with one of the victims. Again, I see these being passed around but I'm telling you, I was covering the White House at this time. It's literally impossible. You can't go anywhere without the White House press corps that was tagging along.

51:26So I don't think it's likely at all. I mean, he was definitely at Mar-a-Lago a ton but Jeffrey Epstein, if he had been at Mar-a-Lago at that time, that actually would have been a story. It was under Secret Service control. I mean, theoretically, I guess, possible, but very unlikely. This just seems to me, there's a lot of winking, nodding, joking. And Epstein, in the emails to me, he loves how important he is of his relationship with everybody else. And he's constantly alluding to the dirt that he has on everybody around him, including Trump. Trump was one of the figures that he constantly alludes to in the emails.

51:59confirmation of you know one of the things that has been posited about jeffrey epstein is basically like he was using blackmail to make money ingratiate himself with the rich and powerful keep himself out of trouble and you can see him using those tactics in this email saying basically i've got you know i could take down this person i've got information on that person and then you also see him having these high level meetings with you know heads of state and leaders from countries around the world. So you really get, you know, Trump included in this, but even separate and apart from Trump, you do see how he really operates and the way that he presents himself in these emails.

52:41You know, back to the question about his connectivity with Trump. What's the year that Trump claims he cut off all contact with us? It was like 2004 or something like that. Early, yeah, early 2000s is when they supposedly, I think they did actually have some kind of falling out over like this mansion that they both wanted or some sort of well it was that and also uh virginia guffre being stolen stolen from mar-a-lago yeah don't believe me trump said that trump said it in epstein you know it's like he literally confirms it in these emails effectively in any case um but you have some indications in these emails this one being one of them but others as well that epstein still if wasn't in direct contact with trump he was certainly in contact with Steve Bannon, who was, you know, obviously Trump world insider.

53:26A lot of questions for Bannon. We knew that Bannon had all of these hours of Epstein footage that has never been released. And then you see him regularly texting back and forth with Epstein. Again, this is, you know, this is a longtime Trump world insider that is clearly continuing to communicate with Jeffrey Epstein right up until he is dead. So, you know, that exchange with regard to Prince Andrew, that is, I think, like a month before he ends up dead in a prison cell. So all the way up to the end, he was certainly connected directly to Trump world. There's another email where someone is asking him to pass some sort of a video along to Donald Trump, suggesting that they at least thought that he still had that kind of access.

54:14So I think that's a really important piece of this, too, as we put these pieces together. And you may ask, what's going on with the Steve Bannon thing? I think the most logical conclusion is that he wanted to keep Epstein close because reportedly he had said that he knew that Epstein was the one guy who could take Trump down and that he was worried about going back to 2016. So I think the probably logical conclusion is that he wanted to keep this guy close and keep tabs on him to make sure that nothing that was going to be damaging to Trump was going to be coming out. Let's get to B.A. This might be the craziest one.

54:49Let's put it up here on the screen. OK, Trump said he asked me to resign. Never remember ever. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop. That was one of those. That was released. He knew about the girls. Yeah, of course, he knew about that. And that seems to confirm the Virginia Gouffre at Mar-a-Lago. Like that dovetails with that story about Virginia Gouffre being quote-unquote To be fair, I will say what the MAGA people are all showing is what Virginia Gouffre did testify under oath that she never saw Trump do anything wrong, which I don't think is all that exculpatory, I guess.

55:18For Trump per se, because that's not really the alleged accusation. The accusation here was about knowing about this and some of the relationship that preceded, but did want to throw that out there. But read this part from Michael Wolff too, though, because so the first part of the exchange is this is when I believe they're talking about this potential CNN debate. Oh, no, this is later. This is 20. Oh, yeah, no, it's 2015. This is 2015. OK, so 2015, they're talking about this potential CNN debate exchange and brainstorming how they would want Trump to respond, which, again, indicates that there's some way to get this information to him and to press him to respond one way or another.

55:56And Michael Wolff says, I think you should let him hang himself. Interesting choice of words. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you, or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt. Of course, it is possible that when asked, he'll say Jeffrey's a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime. So here you have Michael Wolff saying, we should hope that Trump lies because then you have leverage over him.

56:33You have valuable PR and political currency. And if he wins, you could save him generating a debt. So again, strategizing about how basically to wield this information against Trump and have power over him. And so that email was in 2015. And then the one above it is from a separate exchange about, of course, he knew, of course, Trump knew about the girls. He asked Elaine to stop. So extremely revealing there in terms of how they were talking internally and how Epstein operates. Let's go to the next one, shall we? This was another pretty extraordinary one. This was a joke where he talks about, well, it may not be a joke.

57:14He's saying, quote, Hillary doing naughties with Vince. So this is about Vince Foster. This is some 1990s stuff if you've never gone down the road of the Vince Foster suicide, but he is alluding there. The Clinton body count. Well, I mean, go and read it for yourself. It is objectively a crazy death. There's no getting around that. Let's get to B11, shall we? This was from Jeffrey Epstein to Peter Thiel, quote, subject that was fun. See you in three weeks. Just put a pin in that. I will return because it actually just tells you about how crazy his inner circle was. Go to B12, shall we? This was another one, quote, would you like photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen?

57:54This is from December of 2015. Let's go ahead and skip to B14 just because I want to show everybody how deep he was still in D.C. This is an October 2017 email from Larry Summers, who, remember, is like former president of Harvard, World Bank, Treasury Secretary under Clinton, like as respected as it gets in liberal establishment circles. Still is somehow. Epstein says, when we meet, I will endeavor to mesmerize you with stories of DC. So wild! Exclamation, exclamation, exclamation. Hmm, interesting. B15, please. These were all some of the ones that I was noting that I dug out. So here is Epstein keeping tabs on Alex Acosta before Alex Acosta's hearing.

58:40He says, who will represent Acosta at hearing? and his lawyer, Roy Black, who, by the way, helped Epstein with the sweetheart deal with Acosta, says he will be by himself, perhaps Trump aide, to assist and to accompany him. The reason why that's noteworthy to me is, number one, he's keeping tabs on Acosta at the hearing. Number two, the alleged he belonged to intelligence quote about Acosta happened while he was being vetted, allegedly, according to whoever leaked that story, that he belonged to intelligence quote happened while he was being vetted for his potential confirmation hearing in the belief that he may have been asked about it at some point during that confirmation.

59:16So that's why it was important to me that he is keeping tabs on Epstein. B-16, please. This is the perfect one for me because this just shows you, like, yeah, look, obviously Trump is a headline because he's a president, but this is how deep this stuff all goes. So this is just 2014, just 2014, September 2014, during the UNGA when the global elite is all in New York City. These were all of his meetings that he lists out, and please keep this on screen so I can read from them. Peter Thiel, Larry Summers, Bill Burns, CIA director, Gordon Brown, the prime minister of Britain, Joglin, who is a Nobel committee person from Norway, the Mongolian president, the UAE leader, Qatari leaders, Leon Black, that Apollo hedge fund guy who they had a long relationship with.

59:58That correspondence that he has back and forth is with Obama's recently departed White House counsel. And he's listing the Clinton people, the Security Council. He talks about the climate summit that's happening there for the Clinton Global Initiative. Woody Allen, right? Fair weather friends, I guess, there between the two. But my point is just like, you can see how deeply interconnected that he was into this global elite. Like, it's not just Trump. It's like everybody, Indian energy ministers. And just to flag here, the Mongolian president part, is remember, one of the first stories that Ryan reported is that Epstein helped broker an Israeli security agreement between Israel and Mongolia.

1:00:42So here you have him meeting with this head of state around the same time that he's working on behalf of Israel to broker the security. So this is just confirmation of the drop site story, number one. But number two, look at the level of access that this guy just had. I mean, it's just so crazy from prime ministers, CIA directors, billionaires, Nobel Committee, Sultans of Dubai, people at Harvard, Woody Allen. I mean, it's everywhere. It's entertainment. It's the presidency. It's finance. It's like at the highest levels of government, including many of these people. They never even answered, like Bill Burns, when those stories came out.

1:01:20He was literally our CIA director under Biden. And everyone was like, oh, yeah. And he was asking for career advice from MC in a lot of his emails. So it goes deep, man. And it's an actual, like, this is a full-blown conspiracy. And I want to be clear. I'm not alleging that they all have Compromat or any of that stuff on them. I really actually don't think that's the case. I think a lot of it was money, influence, and power. That's enough. You and I have lived here long enough. We know. And people will just look past it. But what I think I would hope most moral people are above is you usually Google the people that you're associated with.

1:01:57This is a registered sex offender at the end of the day. and none of them cared as long as, you know, you can get access to money and to power. And he used the fact that other wealthy, famous people continue to associate with him to be like, well, I mean, Bill Gates still hangs out with me, so it can't be that bad. Like, you know, these, like, Larry Summers or whoever, they still think that I'm cool, so it can't be that bad. One more that I just saw here this morning, because, by the way, and it's important to remember, as Sagar was saying, 22 ,000 emails and messages got dropped yesterday, and none of them are in a searchable format.

1:02:29So they're in a Google drive in image folders, which are unsearchable, just so everybody knows. So what we just went through is a sampling of what has come out so far. There is going to be more. OK, and so here's another one that I just am seeing for the first time where it's Michael Wolf again, going back and forth with Epstein talking about Trump. This is in early 2018. and so Epstein replies to him, the rich and powerful always send lawyers letters. A book about any one of them takes more time to publish as I must be and I am meticulous about documentation and backup. Now again, maybe that's not true.

1:03:11There are some indications from the FBI search of his townhouse and victims saying that there were video recording, that there was cameras everywhere, et cetera. There are some indications that that is actually the case. But that was the perception he wanted people to have, was that he was meticulous about documentation, that he was recording everything, that he was keeping track of everything. And so the reality of what he actually had or didn't have doesn't really matter. What matters is what powerful individuals like Trump think that he may have and assume that he must have and assume that he must be sharing with various entities that he's also associated with.

1:03:53So, you know, I found I thought I think that one is significant as well in terms of the way that he's portraying himself as this sort of like all knowing, all powerful with all the receipts to back it up kind of a guy. And so there's, you know, the power, the proximity to power, the genuine influence. I mean, the amount of now we've seen, it honestly goes beyond what I expected. The amount of globetrotting power that he had to shape world events is mind boggling to contemplate. So you have wealth, you have power, you have proximity to all of these elites. and then you throw in that you have dirt on any number of people that can make your life very difficult, then you see how this conspiracy of silence develops and is sustained over so many years.

1:04:44And the last point I wanted to make here, and like I said before, there's going to be stuff that continues to come out. Whatever's new, we'll also put in the show tomorrow, the Friday show tomorrow as well. But Jill Filippovich made a good point about these emails with this New York Times reporter. These were from his work account. So New York Times fired him because he had an inappropriate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. So they knew that he was having this personal relationship. And these emails about Epstein and Trump have been sitting on New York Times servers, presumably, for all these years.

1:05:21And they just, I guess, never bothered to think of that, never bothered to search the emails, never bothered to see if there was anything relevant there that they might want to look into and report out. And that is wild and gets to what you were saying, Sagar, about like, how is it possible that none of this has come out before? You literally had the email sitting on New York Times servers and they did nothing with it. Yeah, weird. Interesting. And look at Ryan right now reporting out all this stuff that any reporter could get access to and report out, but they are the only ones who are doing it.

1:05:55Tells you a lot. I mean, this goes to the heart of the Epstein story from day one. Remember Amy Robach, Good Morning America? Oh yeah. Had the story, couldn't cover it. Actually, in some of those files, he is giving advice about how to help quash stories for the Royal Palace when the Duke, Andrew, is in his emails being like, please, I have nothing to do with this. Please quash this story for me. And Epstein is like, if we help this, then we're gonna be at parties in Buckingham Palace for the rest of our lives. He literally says that in the emails. Dark, crazy stuff, crazy stuff. Wild. 1969, Malcolm and Martin are gone.

1:06:33America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King Sr. It's the true story of protest and rebellion in Black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Over the last couple years, didn't we learn that the folding chair was invented by Black people because of what happened in Alabama? This Black History Month, the podcast Selective Ignorance with Mandy B unpacks Black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo.

1:07:16The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie.

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