11/14/25: MSM IGNORES Israel in Epstein, Groypers Occupy Trump Admin?, Mass AI Hack REVEALED

29:12But on a lot of levels, they fundamentally agree. I think the distinction in that case would be Fuentes indicates on his show, he is like controlling sleeper cells of, to the narrow definition you laid out, Crystal, people who are self-identified, alongside Groyper jersey wearers who would like activate at a moment's notice. The sleeper cell would be activated. We talked about like sending them to Iowa, New Hampshire to harass J.D. Vance if J.D. Vance is to run for president. I mean, she probably will. You know, it's ongoing war actually with Charlie Kirk and TPUSA, which is why people when Charlie Kirk was murdered were first raising eyebrows at the Groypers.

29:55And we do see a lot of like groped up young people showing up at the TPUSA events. true. And, you know, even at events with like Eric Trump, I saw, you know, and but to your point, it can be difficult to separate. OK, do you have a legitimate concern about our foreign policy vis-a-vis Israel? Or is this fueled by you think it's a Zionist occupied government and the Jews control everything, et cetera, et cetera? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it's to like throw around the 30, 40 percent number is dangerous because then you're going to end up pushing people who are not anti-Semitic, but are being told they're anti-Semitic further to the fringes because there's like, there's nothing I can do that will make you think I'm well-intentioned.

30:38And they still have agency and it's still their fault if that happens. But yes, the yeah, I think the people who were giving Fuentes too little credit before for having power are now giving him too much credit. And so, yeah, it's a little, I don't know, it's tricky, but the right's got to get, the right's got lots of problems. Lots of problems. And I will say they seem to be congregating in the social media departments of all these federal agencies because like this is not you know George H.W. Bush content that they're putting out on like on Maine. Like they're putting out like far right like Groyper style memes.

31:23Like 4chan overtly white national shit. From the main accounts of like the department of the department of that like the and so i assume those are kids that somebody before to sand remember does it's a santa's video when he was running that had like the black the son of the son of the son of the son like like this is like been happening for like a year or two now these memes i mean it makes sense that they would be emily in the like perhaps a a disproportionate concentration of those departments because if you're that online that you're a nick fuentes as like super fan, then you're probably going to have some skill in like the meme and social media department.

31:59Right? Possible. And a major push in this ministry, we were talking about this earlier in the week to the frustration of some, you know, ideological allies is to basically, you know, do the based ritual, the vice signaling through their social media and have that substitute for any substantive policy that actually improves people's lives. The last thing I would say is And almost all of my sources, with a couple exceptions, were populists. So that's another question that I've gotten in the last couple of days. This is not like establishment McConnell people. So that's just adding that. And the other thing I want to say is before recently, really the only people on the right who knew what a griper was were people who were working in the youth movement because Fuentes was so intentional and strategic about infiltrating some of these youth events.

32:49And so those organizations have for years been like screening GRIPERS, like going through like deep dives, social media, trying to figure out if people have burners, trying to ask certain questions that might suss out GRIPERS. And that's probably getting harder to do because they're getting more, I think, probably strategic to try to avoid that process. Well, last thing I'll say is who was this guy, DeGracio or something like that, who had his messages leaked? Oh, Paul DeGracio. Oh, in Gracia, yeah. In Gracia, yeah. I'm about his messages leak where he was talking about, like, I've got a Nazi streak, you know.

33:26Yeah. And he just got elevated to a new, you know, relatively high-level position. So, again, like, is he a groiper? Probably not. Like, he's an older guy. He's probably maybe not like a, you know, Fuentes meme. I don't know. Maybe he is. He's around my age. I think he's, like, 30-ish. But, you know, this stuff comes out and reveals that he's at least, you know, open to I mean, he has a racialist worldview open to overt Nazism. And this is not disqualifying in this administration. So I don't know why anyone would think that, you know, like that somehow an association with Nick Fuentes would in any way being be disqualifying or that this administration would have any interest in tamping down on overt racist sentiment.

34:12When, again, some of the most powerful players within the administration share an overtly racist worldview, even if some of the like ethnic like specific ethnic dividing lines are slightly different. Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with like Ryan's take on like the DHS memes and stuff like that. But like I did get a sense from the story when like the group chat officially like leaked that people were saying, oh, like this doesn't just mean the staffers, but that a sizable just part of like MAGA base or voter population like our Nazis and Hitler lovers was kind of like a sense from the story. But I feel like if you reverse that and looked at like Democratic operatives, like I don't believe that like all Democrats are like Olivia Juliana or Harry Sisson.

34:57Like like I don't think that that's also representative of like the Democratic base or what have you. And something that I don't think Hassan's representative of the average like young Democrat. No, a little taller. Maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like there's also this like entertainment question because I was Hassan is fairly representative of a lot of young Democrats in a lot of ways. I mean, just look at how many young people voted for Zoran in New York City. And like if you're to talk about just like ideological alignment, Hassan's politics and his politics would be, you know, not identical, but the most closely aligned of any mainstream political figure.

35:35So I actually think it would be fair to say that young Democrats under 30, you know, probably they may not all be Hassan Piker fans specifically. Well, yeah, they are more from that wing of, you know, reflective of that wing of the party. Yeah, I think that's true. And I would have said the same thing with Charlie Kirk with the right. Yeah. And people also separate take what they want from content. And I was thinking about this because I heard I saw another conservative YouTube influencer, Asmongold, talk about Fuentes recently. And he said, well, you know, I don't really agree with like the Jew hating stuff, but I agree with his takes on Israel.

36:10And I think that is like representative of a lot of the conservatives that probably do watch French's. They kind of like take what they want. They're like, oh, well, I'm not really sure I agree with like this, like racism against Jews. But I do agree that Israel controls America or what have you. And I do think that is like representative of like a large part of the audience is that like in the same with Candace Owens. I'm pretty sure a large portion of people who watch Candace Owen are like, she's crazy, but I love watching her. Yeah, I think that's true. Right? And there is something to that, right?

36:38That people are coming to be entertained and they take what they want from it. Like they don't become the person they're watching entirely and they pick and choose what parts of it because ultimately a lot of it is entertainment. Well, last thing I'll say on this actually is I think that's why it's incumbent on the right to understand better why people are watching Candace and Fuentes. Some of it is because they're getting sucked into bad racial politics like bigotry. On the other hand, some of it is that where else do you go to get a conservative criticism of this Trump administration? Exactly.

37:09That's part of it. And so if they want to start like actually preventing people from getting sucked on these rabbit holes, they need to understand that young people are not happy with this administration. Young conservatives are not happy with this administration, and they're looking for people to actually have real conversations about what's going on in D.C. and in the world. And that pushes them towards the Fuenteses and Candices and even towards like Pucker for at least some modicum of criticism and skepticism about conservative elites. So, yeah, it's just that it doesn't. I mean, if you're just putting anti-Semitism off the table, but you're not putting other forms of racism and bigotry off the table.

37:54Shapiro mode. Yeah, that's a pretty hollow victory to me. You know, in my opinion, it's like, oh, Stephen Miller won out. Congratulations, you know, or the people that actively support and fund and arm a genocide. Oh, their ideology won. Wow, that's fantastic. You know, I mean, that's and that's why I'm coming back to like, you know, the Stephen Miller and the views that are coming out of this administration, the policies, I mean, their refugee policy is only whites allowed. You know, this stuff is just overt. So, I mean, I just I don't see outside of I really don't see any significant institutions within the right that are ascendant right now who are like, actually all bigotry should be off the table, not just like, hey, guys, like Randy, like, hey, guys, let's hate the Muslims, not the Jews or Laura Lomer.

38:42Hey, guys, you know, it's the Islamization of America. That's the real problem. And it's an outrage that we have any Muslims in Congress. And how but how dare you be anti-Semitic like that view where you're just like, well, my ethnic group or Dinesh D'Souza, right, where he's like, well, my particular ethnic group should be off the table. I can't, but how dare you come for the Indians now? It's like, yeah, but you were good with all of this up until that point when the hatred turned on you. So, I mean, anyway, it's, you know, to me, there's the ideological strain on the right that is ascendant right now is fundamentally racialist.

39:20And so I don't really particularly have a dog in the fight of, I think it's all abhorrent, right? Whether you put the Muslims on top or the Jews on top or who you hate more, I think it's all a disgusting way to behave fundamentally. And Emily, is the right going to need some more distance from like 2020? It feels like you watch a right wing organization. If anybody tries to stand up to any form of bigotry in any circumstance, then you're a cuck. They get called woke. Yeah, you're a lib, you're a cuck, you're woke. I think that's the problem with like the ingratious stuff, which is people assume.

39:57And that's why I think this distinction is important. People assume that anyone who gets caught up in like a cancel culture scandal, it's more important. The cost benefit analysis is on owning the libs and not like canceling somebody who's hashtag based. And so, yeah, I think maybe that's a good point, Ryan. Yeah, I think that's all of the conservative institutions, I think, will say and have been like hand wringing over the last couple of weeks, especially with the heritage stuff to say. hey, there's nothing, nothing excuses any of this. You know, and that's fueling Fuentes. He makes him seem like really important and really ascendant and all of that.

40:39So it's confusing. You need someone that's woke and hates Israel. Like you need to wokely hate Israel on the right for there to be a healthy. Then you're just a leftist. Then you're just a leftist. Then you're just a leftist. So come on over, guys. Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had both been assassinated, and Black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr.

41:21and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

42:21shapes us and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

43:14Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

43:31Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan, welcome to the show, guys. We talked about this earlier, but she is running. She's Lieutenant Governor of Minnesota, and she is also running for the Senate in the state of Minnesota in the Democratic primary. I believe her main challenger is Angie Craig, who's a current member of Congress. Lieutenant Governor, welcome. Great to have you. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, of course. It's our pleasure. Why don't you just introduce yourself a little bit for the audience, your background, how you ended up in politics, and what some of the core issues are that motivate you?

44:05Sure, absolutely. So as you said, I'm the Lieutenant Governor of the great state of Minnesota. I've been in this role for the last seven years. But at my core, I am an organizer. I was raised on the Wellstone for Senate campaign in 2002. I've been a school board member, the executive director of Children's Defense Fund, Minnesota, and also served in the House of Representatives here in Minnesota. And I'm a kid who felt like the bottom could fall out at any moment. And I know that there's too many people who feel that way right now. And that's why I decided to run for United States Senate, because I think we need more people who understand what it feels like to try to stretch 20 bucks through the through the end of the month.

44:50And so I'm excited to be here. I'm a mom of a 12 year old, a middle schooler, and I live in the community that raised me of St. Louis Park. And I'm the highest ranking Native American woman in executive office in the country. I'm a member of the White Earth Band of Ojibwe, which is the largest tribe here in Minnesota. And I know you've done a lot of work, you know, connecting indigenous communities as well. Yes. Yeah. Our, our, our, my understanding is that even though Angie Craig does not have the official endorsement of, say, Chuck Schumer at this point, she has all the, it's understood to those of us who are here in Washington, D.C.

45:30that Angie Craig is the, like, Democratic leadership candidate. One way they send those signals without sending them all the way is they have Nancy Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries endorse. You're like, wait a minute. Why are the House leaders endorsing the Senate candidate but not the Senate leader? But, you know, and some unions and other signals that she's the candidate. So did you get any pressure from the National Party not to run? They say, look, the lane is cleared for Angie Craig. It's, you know, this is her nomination. What are you doing? And how is that affecting the campaign? So I certainly didn't get any explicit pressure to not run, to be clear.

46:17But what I would say is, you know, Ryan, I think you're right that I am not a Beltway darling. And if this race were held in Washington, D.C., I think my opponent would win. Lucky for me, it's being held in Minnesota. And so that's why I think that we're going to win this race. You know, I have to tell you, I'm not the establishment candidate. And I think right now, especially going into 2026, that's a good thing. There's a particular formula. I think that people, maybe the establishment in Washington, like to see. I'm not part of that formula, but I think that that is what's speaking to folks in this moment as we're traveling all across the state of Minnesota.

47:03People are ready for bold leadership. They don't want folks who are going to nibble around the edges anymore. And I think that's what we saw all across the country in the most recent elections. And that's why I'm in this. So, you know, if if there's folks who are all in for my opponent, that's just fine. We're going to spend this time working on the ground, organizing with real folks and being really clear. I think that this race is about what is facing the Democratic Party overall, because it is a corporate Democrat versus someone with progressive values who's been delivering for working families for a long time.

47:42And I think that that's what people are interested in in this moment. Do you think that message potentially in a general election is powerful with people who maybe voted for Donald Trump or voted for Republican candidates in the past? Do you think your background as a left-wing populist is actually something that helps you? I don't know if you have conversations with people who voted for Trump or maybe other Republicans who are disillusioned, disenchanted now, where your sort of flavor of Bernie-style populism is appealing. I certainly think it is. And we're actually seeing it as we're going across the state.

48:19So we've been holding what we call kitchen table conversations. And so it's a little less scripted town hall and a little bit more community meeting. So, of course, we have folks who are coming who are Democrats. We've got a lot of independents or folks who are like, I don't agree with, you know, any political party, but I'm really freaked out by what I see happening here. And then we have Republicans. We were in a community of Canby, Minnesota, which is in southwestern Minnesota, a small town. And we had these four guys show up who sort of were all like had their arms crossed over their chest in the back of the room.

48:51And, you know, and I was like, I wonder what these guys were about. And one of them raised his hand and he said, you know, we all voted for Trump in 16, in 20, and we didn't vote for, quote unquote, that lady in 2024. They said, but we're here because you're a tough cookie. And then they went on to say that they were concerned about SNAP being pulled out of the ag bill and what that means for the future of farmers. So like we've already always been able to count on the fact that this was going to get done. And he said, you know, the little secret that people won't tell you is how many farmers themselves rely on SNAP to keep food on the table.

49:35And so I think that those are the things that are resonating with people. And no matter where I go, it can be in the urban core, the suburbs, rural communities. Health care is the thing that I hear about over and over and over again. So that is like we don't have to agree on everything. But I think what we can agree on is that it's like literally all of us versus extremist billionaires and the folks at the very, very top who are doing incredibly well under the Trump administration. And I think that's what can galvanize us. Folks know that the game is rigged and we just have to talk about it. What did you think of the shutdown deal that was, you know, agreed to by eight Democrats in the Senate?

50:18And do you believe that Chuck Schumer should continue to be the Democratic leader? So I'll tell you, it would have not even crossed my mind to to like even entertain voting for that deal. Talk about, you know, clutching defeat from, you know, the the mouth of victory. I just I feel like, you know, of course, I want to be very clear. The shutdown and our federal employees, TSA workers, folks who depend on SNAP, that was incredibly hard. And I know that we had people who were coming along with us. I think case in point elections literally all across the country that said, keep fighting for us. And so I just don't understand it.

51:06So the answer is like, I wouldn't have voted for it. I'm incredibly disappointed in the eight Senate Democrats and now four members of the House who went along. I think we only have a handful of tools in our toolbox right now as Democrats. This was one of them. And I'm sick and tired of Democrats fighting from a defensive crouch. And I think we lost some ground with people. And now I, along with others, have to work to rebuild that trust and say, I'm going to fight for you. That is not the kind of Democrat that I am. I think the job of a caucus leader is to keep folks together. And we certainly did not see that.

51:47It's I think it's going to take a lot for for folks to feel like they can trust this party again. And that's you know, that's what's at stake. And like you said, I think I feel the same way about Chuck Schumer that he feels about me. Uncommuting is what I would say. And so, you know, as it's been reported, I don't think I'm his candidate in this race. That's okay. We're just going to keep organizing and we're going to win. A number of Democrats have said that he should step down as leader. Do you think he should step down as leader? Would you support him next time? Let's say you win and he runs for caucus leader again.

52:33there's also been some speculation that he won't even run for re-election. Do you think he should decline to run for re-election? I mean, I think any leader should take time to, you know, reflect on where they are needed and necessary. I would say there's a lot of time, right, between now and the election. I'm really going to focus on my— But what about right now on, like, Brokana and a fair number of other Democrats have said enough. Like, it's, this is an urgent moment, you should step down now. Do you think you should step down now? That's not my decision to make, but I think he should seriously reflect on the direction of the party, the need to rebuild trust.

53:15And here's what I think is so hard about this moment is that there are people outside of the beltway who know that things are on fire, right? And so I think that is that disconnect between how people are living right now and what's happening in Washington, D.C. That, I think, is what deserves a lot of reflection. Because when I'm in communities and I'm talking to a librarian who says my deductible is$15 ,000 a year and that I just went to the doctor for a five-minute med check and it cost me$600, and I don't know whether or not we're going to be able to afford healthcare next year at all. and we're like nibbling around the edges and somehow, you know, saying like, well, we sure brought them the fight by raising, you know, this idea that health care is expensive and that somehow that's enough.

54:09It's baloney. And I think it just speaks to how disconnected people feel right now from what's happening in Washington. So, you know, again, I think Chuck Schumer just isn't that into me and that's okay. And, you know, I'm going to keep doing the work that I need to do here in Minnesota and focus on this race and making sure that people here have the fighter that they need and someone who's willing to take on corporate interests and not capitulate to make sure that, you know, the money keeps coming in to the party. And Lieutenant Governor, real quickly, if I could play a quick clip for you, a Minnesota DFL member who was at a party auction slash fundraiser earlier this month.

55:00You may have even been at this one. I don't know. Angie Craig was there and she's kind of leading an auction and she gets pressed by a Democrat who's in the in the audience about her position on Gaza. And I want to play her very strange and hard to understand response, but and then get your response to this. Let me play this video here. $307 million. $307 million. Anybody have$500? We believe in democracy in this country. We are not a cult as Democrats. $500. So it goes on like that. She just kind of continues the auction. But she says, you know, we believe in democracy in this country. We are not a cult.

55:50In response to the person pressing her on whether or not she, you know, was going to stand up against the genocide in Gaza. So any response to that clip itself? But also, where do you stand when it comes to, you know, U.S. support for the Israeli military? Sure. So I was there. Okay. I was, yeah, I was at that dinner. And, you know, these are, there were a handful of young people who were there, who, you know, spent their own money to be at this dinner. And I think we're looking for an opportunity to engage. And it was a packed room, folks are fired up. And, And, you know, all of us gave a little speech and and that that happened.

56:46What I decided to do. What did she mean? Cult? I mean, I think it was just sort of a wild moment with, as you could hear, a lot of yelling. It was an action like we all all the electeds or candidates had to auction off an item. And and that's that's that's what happened. Right. So I decided, you know, before I left to pull these young people aside and I talked to them because, you know, they they were there to to express their viewpoints. And I think that's important. And I think when young people are showing up in our party, it's important to make sure that that they feel heard. Now, I want to be really clear.

57:30I am not taking money from APAC. I also don't believe that they would give it to me. So, you know, that's that's also part of this. But, you know, what what has happened is, you know, I was asked about the Sanders resolution this summer that both both of my senators, Senator Tina Smith and Senator Amy Klobuchar voted in in favor of to stop offensive weapons from getting to Netanyahu's government. And it was, you know, for me, because we saw the starvation of children in Gaza. And I think there are, again, a handful of tools in our toolbox that we can use when we see something happening that's not right.

58:21And to be really clear, you know, the same reason why I would have supported that resolution when I see starving children is the same reason why I support breakfast and lunch being offered to kids universal meals at school. Right. Like that is a consistent through line. And, you know, of course. What happened on October 7th is absolutely horrific and the trauma and the violence was unacceptable. And what we see, the response from Netanyahu's government of preventing aid, of leveling entire neighborhoods and communities is not right. And so I am now, you know, a target for AIPAC because I spoke up and, you know, I'm going to continue to, you know, I reserve the right to critique my own government and Donald Trump.

59:20And I certainly reserve the right to critique Benjamin Netanyahu and his government as well. So I know that this is an issue. APAC is supporting my opponent to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so we're going to be competitive when it comes to fundraising. But it's also, I also, that's not how I'm interested in funding my campaign. What did you tell the protesters, the students? Were they students? Were they, you know, what did you tell them and what did they tell you? They were students. and, you know, they just said, we just want an opportunity to have a conversation. And I think, you know, she was sort of scuttled out the back door of the kitchen.

1:00:12I think people deserve that. And listen, like you can decide to take money from whoever you want to to fund your campaign. To me, integrity matters. And, you know, and so like I shared that with them. They asked how, you know, if I was taking APAC money and I said no. And mostly I just listened. And I think that that is, I think that that's what people are interested in right now. And so if you're not going to even engage, like, what does that say, right, about our democracy? I just, we don't have enough young people in this party. We don't have enough young people who are banging on the door to say, like, I want to be part of this work.

1:00:57I want to be part of this movement. I think we have a responsibility to do everything we can to say you're welcome here. And again, we don't have to agree on everything, but you get to have, you know, your voice heard in this process. And I worry about what that means if we keep shutting young people down over and over again. Maybe they're not going to turn out for the other guys. They're just not going to turn out at all. What do you see, Lieutenant Governor, as the primary differences between you and Congresswoman Angie Craig? What are some of the key policy differences that you see? Sure. So I would say the biggest thing is really how we are approaching our elections.

1:01:41I've decided not to take corporate PAC money. That's incredibly important to me. I think, especially right now when people know that the game is rigged. You know, I certainly knew that corporations had a lot of power in Washington. it wasn't until I started running for the U.S. Senate that I was like, whew, they sure do. And so, you know, this has been a point where, for me, that's incredibly important is to say that I want to be accountable to the people of Minnesota and to our small dollar donors all across the country. because I think it's pretty disingenuous to say, I'm going to hold big pharma accountable while at the same time taking a big check from a pharmaceutical company.

1:02:26People are smarter than that. And I think that that is really the core of what this is about. Are you going to show for the corporate interests? Are you going to work for working people? You know, I also think things like raising the minimum wage, paid family and medical leave, making sure, you know, as we're talking about health care across the state, it is time to just say what is needed and necessary, which is to get rid of prior authorization so some dude behind a desk doesn't get to decide whether or not you get the life-saving health care that you deserve. Or worse yet, AI or a robot doesn't get to make that decision.

1:03:03And that we need Medicare for all. And, you know, I think that that has been the clearest difference between the two of us that I am willing to take on these big corporations and to fight for what folks need. And I am not being financed by the very people who are responsible for the reason that the economy looks like how it looks now for, you know, for for middle class folks and for folks who are on the margins. Yeah. No, go ahead. Go ahead, Ryan. Go ahead, Ryan. Craig herself. Correct me if I'm wrong. I covered her 2018 race. She was actually recruited by the D triple C in that race against some other, you know, more progressive candidates there.

1:03:43So my recollection, she and sorry, Ryan, we're going to have to wrap her. She's got a hard out parent teacher conference in a sec. So we'll do this last question and then we'll wrap her. She's a medical device executive. Is that right? Like she worked for a medical device company or something like normally Democrats are finding like female fighter fighter pilots or something. So how does that how does her background in corporate America like play into your campaign here? I mean, you know, I think I don't know how hard we'll lean into like her expertise. I think we're both highly qualified, right, women who are running for office.

1:04:16I think it is about just who do you want your candidates beholden to, right, corporate interests or real people. And I think that's, you know, really what this this campaign is all about. Just very quickly, because you raised AI, I know there have been a few high profile data center fights in Minnesota. You know, what is your view of the mass data center build out its impact on electricity prices and the environment? I mean, I think we have to have additional protections in there for consumers. I think there's a difference between an AI center that has a closed water system versus one that does not.

1:04:48You know, when we see folks who are coming into building communities, I think a lot of times folks are getting a really raw deal. So I think we have to take a really good look at what does that actually mean? They're bringing jobs, and that's needed and necessary, especially for the build and construction. But how do we make sure that those benefits continue? And, you know, that's deeply concerning to me, and it's something that we hear all across the country. I think, you know, they're needed and necessary. However, we have to have additional protections in place for consumers and for folks who live around them to make sure that they're just not getting a raw deal.

1:05:24Lieutenant Governor, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. It's great to get to meet you. Thanks so much for having me. Appreciate you. You're a pleasure. All right. On that note, before— What did you guys think? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we can debrief. Ryan, what do you think? Yeah, she was about to be governor if Harris Walls hadn't shot the bed. Oh, that's true. Yeah, I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah, there was a lot of people in Minnesota who were really rooting for Walls to become vice president just so she could become governor. So there's a double disappointment in Minnesota when Wallace came slinking back to the governor's mansion.

1:06:05She's got Bernie's backing. She's one of the candidates that he has endorsed. I mean, there's a number of high profile races at this point that are basically like Schumer versus Bernie, which is a kind of a fun dynamic, a telling dynamic. But I actually worked with one of the candidates that was opposed. And I can't remember his name at this point. He's a teacher who was in the race against Angie Craig. So I've been very familiar with her. Yeah, I remember him. Yeah. For a while. Yeah. And but yeah, I mean, she comes out of the like medical device industry and has done a number of favors for them.

1:06:37And they have a large footprint in Minnesota is my recollection as well. Like it's a big business there. So for, you know, I think Peggy is obviously really trying to cut a pretty clear contrast in terms of like the source of their funding, the way that they're going about their campaigns. And then, you know, the fact that she's a Medicare for all supporter is also obviously a significant divide at a time when health care is increasingly on the minds of people. yeah it is you know it is interesting because it's like okay medical device it's a big industry fine but like do we really need a medical device executive representing them in the senate um it's it is such a classic right like a corporate executive though i don't know that i don't understand the hesitation in throwing chuck shamer under the bus like like she said he doesn't like me he's not supporting me it's like why can't you repay the favor i i kyle and i interviewed um Antonio Delgado, who is the lieutenant governor, actually, of New York yesterday and is challenging Kathy Hogle and is also the progressive insurgent candidate.

1:07:40And same thing. I don't know what it is that the hold that Chuck Schumer has that is just something invisible underneath the surface. I mean, Ryan, do you have any insight into that? I because Delgado is New York, I was like an AOC also was very wouldn't AOC and Bernie have both been keeping AOC and Bernie have both been keeping their powder dry on this. and it's like, you guys are the revolutionaries? Like, what's going on here? Yeah, so I was thinking maybe there's some New York thing that I don't get. But then to hear her so reluctant to, I'm like, what is this? I don't get it. I assume it's because if Schumer is still leader and she wins, you want to start off from your committees.

1:08:24And it screws your state and stuff too. Yeah, you just can't be doing this. If you're going to be the insert And she's already thrown in for that. Yeah, he's already going to hate you. I think that's what people don't understand. Like Ted Cruz was never going to make nice with Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell is always going to hate you. It's fine. He might tell you that too, but he's always going to hate you. And I do think Schumer is just going to retire after this term too, don't you, Ryan? Because he's going to lose otherwise. It does seem that way. Yeah. Right. It's lifeguard rules. You know, if someone's drowning, you got to make sure they don't like you don't drown with them.

1:09:02Right. You have to like you got to pull them out. But if they're going to pull you down, well, you got to get points for voters for pushing them under the water. Then take the points. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Roe understands that, you know, clearly understands that. I'm not trying to be overly negative. I thought she's she's impressive. You know, she's got a lot to offer. And certainly the contrast between her and Angie Craig, who gets tons of money from, you know, pharma and device industry and APAC and whatever. Like there's, you know, very clear contrast. Right. But I'm just sort of puzzling over why this is difficult for not just her, but any number of candidates to just be like, yeah, you know, we should listen to the base.

1:09:39The base is done with Schumer. Let's time to move on. Yeah. And we're going to move on. We're going to do one last segment here in the public half that I wanted to get to before we switch over to the second half of the show. And that is an AI story. We did ask her about AI data centers and Anthropic had a little interesting message they released where they said this from Anthropic AI's Twitter account. We disrupted a highly sophisticated AI-led espionage campaign. The attack targeted large tech companies, financial institutions, chemical manufacturing companies, and government agencies. We assess with high confidence that the threat actor was a Chinese state-sponsored group.

1:10:22What are we to make of this first publicly announced AI-led cyber attack? Let me read a little bit more from the article that they posted just to get a few more of the details here, which I think are very consequential. They said, again, from Anthropic, we recently argued an inflection point had been reached in cybersecurity, a point at which AI models had become genuinely useful for cybersecurity operations, both for good and for ill. This was based on systematic evaluation showing cyber capabilities doubling in six months. We'd also been tracking real-world cyber attacks, observing how malicious actors were using AI capabilities.

1:11:01While we predicted these capabilities would continue to evolve, what has stood out to us is how quickly they have done so at scale. In mid-September 2025, we detected suspicious activity that later investigation determined to be a highly sophisticated espionage campaign. The attackers used AI's agentic capabilities. So these AI agents that they've been really pushing and very excited about is sort of like the next evolution of AI technology. That's what was used here. And they say they used it to an unprecedented degree, using AI not just as an advisor, but to execute the cyber attacks themselves.

1:11:37They say this group that they assess to be a Chinese state-sponsored group manipulated our clawed code tool into attempting infiltration into roughly 30 global targets and succeeded in a small number of cases. The operation targeted large tech companies, financial institutions, chemical manufacturing companies, which is a little scary, and government agencies. We believe this is the first documented case of a large-scale cyber attack executed without substantial human intervention. So that all sounds really bad. And here we are just like going along, building out these data centers, watching OpenAI and these other companies like proposed throwing trillions of dollars at this stuff.

1:12:21Any sort of brakes that were on the car, completely taken away, just wild west, off to the races. And we are just at the beginning of the potential fallout. And here we already have AI with the capability to pull off a mass cyber attack hacking campaign independent of any human involvement. This is, I think it's a pretty terrifying moment, frankly. Yeah. Somebody's going to get killed. Like that's, somebody is actually going to die because they lose control of this stuff. And we're all going to say, we're all going to go through the motions of, wow, you know, we really need to start thinking so seriously and we need to do something.

1:13:06And everybody's already going through the motions of, wow, we need to think so seriously. It's moving so fast. But it's like, it's going to take people dying for anyone who actually has power over this to say, well, we need guardrails. I mean, it's... Yeah. It's going to be like an AI Chernobyl event is what we're going to need, right? Like we're going to need some sort of mass casualty event before there's any regulation or any of this stuff. It's dark. But you know what? Griffin and Emily, you're exactly right in that this is actually what a lot of people in the AI safety or AI alignment space sort of hope for, that there's something that captures the public's attention that is really bad, but is containable and, you know, not a total like destruction of all human civilization that opens people's eyes and forces some sort of a reckoning.

1:14:00I mean, that is the point where we're at, where, you know, if they're being honest, these AI safety researchers who are looking at this and feel like already you have AI that is capable of, you know, deceit is capable now of these mass hacking attacks that already we're at a place where we don't really know what has been built to this point. I saw someone else speculating, I wish I could remember what article this was in, that basically like, well, maybe if AI quickly gets rid of like 10 % of the jobs, that would be enough to trigger some sort of a mass social revolt. But before we ended with complete societal collapse, like that's those are the sort of scenarios that are being openly discussed as like a best case scenario.

1:14:45It's I mean, it's horrifying. And then, I mean, I guess the real best case scenario is that this is all a speculative bubble, which is possible that we never really get beyond where we are right now of, you know, OK, you've got some chat bots and you got some videos and now apparently you have the capability to hack a bunch, which is not great. But, you know, it doesn't live up to the promise. There's a major financial collapse and correction that would cause mass pain as well. But at least it wouldn't be the sort of like total societal collapse or civilizational upheaval that is being promised slash threatened by this technology.

1:15:20That's the other potential outcome. But, you know, when you see things like that, you start to feel like we may already be past the kind of like least bad alternatives that face us on the road at this point. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and the fact that they suggest it came from China is really dispiriting, too, because that's the argument that they keep using against people who say shut all this crap down. But China, it was China, but it used American AI tools. Right. It was a collab. Yeah. Yeah, a little crossover. That's right. Yeah, and then I've also seen people saying this is actually why the ethical people who are telling us we need to make warm and fuzzy AIs are wrong because we actually have to prepare for all-out war.

1:16:08It's like, well, Jesus, let's just all slit our throats now. I mean, the only solution really is a global summit where they do the same thing they did with nuclear non-proliferation. Right. It has to be treated that way because it has power over the entire world. It's not it doesn't stop at anybody's borders. It has power over the entire world. It's moving more quickly. Even the most powerful people in the industry say more quickly than they are able to keep up with. They do not know how it works, why it does X, Y and Z in every scenario. And that's again, people are going to die before they actually have any kind of summit.

1:16:49because can we can we pull up the Matt Walsh tweet? I was just going to bring that up because not only this is going to change our realities and potentially like our political formations. If Ryan Grimm and Matt Walsh are now BFFs, like there are new. He's been saying good stuff about formations happening. Yeah. Yeah, he has. I mean, I can pull it up. I don't have it on hand, but essentially like Ryan, like Matt Walsh was saying that, hey, we're scared that we're coming up on like potentially 10 to 25 million jobs lost in the very near future that we're walking straight into a wall and there's no one in politics really doing anything about it.

1:17:29Unfortunately, when I search Matt Walsh and Ryan Graham, I just get Ryan destroying him on Haiti. I said bro trip to Port-au-Prince. I had before. There you go. They can hash this out. We'll call it the Port-au-Prince summit and they'll hash this out. So many summits need to happen. But Ryan, what did you make of this new alliance, if you will? I don't know if it's horseshoe, but it's something. I mean, it's not new. Like, there are concerns on the left and the right about this. And he's right that it doesn't sort well into our politics. And so, therefore, politicians have just managed to not talk about it.

1:18:08So, here's what he said. He said, and here, I can put it up. One second.

1:18:18So he says,

1:18:48thing about any of this. None of them are taking it seriously. We're sleepwalking into a dystopia that any rational person can see from miles away. It drives me nuts. Are we really just going to lie down and let AI take everything from us? Is that the plan? Well said. And you can add on to it the way that Mark Zuckerberg has suggested that this kind of thing is a solution to the like the loneliness crisis because now you're gonna have people just sitting around chatting with AIs all day and you know it's like no we don't want this like nobody nobody wants this and so can't somebody do something about it it's like his his like plea resonates it's like it's like isn't there somebody who's going to do something about this um right but then there needs to be the next step of I mean yes someone could do something about it it's called the Trump administration.

1:19:46They're the ones who, you know, I mean, listen, it's not like Biden was like had all the brakes on. They were doing some stuff. And that's part of why these tech oligarchs all aligned against Biden. It's one of the reasons. And, you know, in the Trump administration, they're given free reign. You got David Sachs in there. Obviously, Peter Thiel is a giant, a major ally. Marc Andreessen is a major ally. Elon was literally part of the government. You know, even Sam Altman, Elon's nemesis, is brought in for these government deals. Zuckerberg hanging out with Trump, sucking up to him, et cetera. You know, there's a major push directly from this administration go in this direction.

1:20:23And so if you're going to really be part of I appreciate the sentiment, I'm not trying to like, you know, whatever. I appreciate the sentiment is something Emma and I have been talking about a lot with the Peter Thiel antichrist and what he's up to there and the coalition, political coalition that needs to come together and how it doesn't sort ideologically neatly, like you said. But we need you to make that next step and realize who the enemy is here. And the enemy is this administration. You know, you heard Steve Bannon early on raising flags about these like transhumanists with this anti-human ideology.

1:20:53It's truly what it is. And so, you know, if you're just raising the concern without pointing the finger at the people who right now are pushing this the hardest and the fastest, it's a little impotent. Well, the Trump administration is falling for it hook, line and sinker. And, you know, I'm bringing people in who aren't just falling for it, but who are obviously part of orchestrating this takeover of the entire world, not just our politics, not just our government, not just our media, but the entire world. So it's happening extremely quickly. You couldn't imagine, honestly, a worse situation where you have a president who is totally obsessed with flattery and addicted to flattery and is very easily swayed by grifts like a meme coin in order to advance his personal wealth and is easily swayed by the ideological pitch.

1:21:49You know, like you can make lots of money, but it's also sort of anti-World Economic Forum, anti-global governance, which, by the way, it's not. But just saying that he is particularly susceptible to that kind of persuasion and flattery. And right now with the deregulatory push in the Trump administration, which some of which I obviously support as a conservative, but not in this. And so you have like the perfect storm of things happening for accelerating AI, for an accelerating AI capture and takeover. And nobody, everyone's saying we should hit the pause button except for the tech oligarchs.

1:22:28But nobody is actually doing anything to hit the pause button or to create a pause button. Even lots of the tech oligarchs are saying it. And Trump, I think, knows that the whole stock market is held up by NVIDIA. Like the entire thing, the entire U.S. economy is being floated by NVIDIA right now without AI and data center construction. There's zero GDP growth. 80 % of the gains in the stock market are AI stock gains. Actually, there is a bit of a slide. I haven't checked in again this morning, but in the futures this morning. I know things were looking pretty bad in the stock market. NASDAQ was falling.

1:23:06Yeah, because, yeah, stock sell off extends weighing on the Dow now. So, you know, he understands the stock market and really puts a lot of puts a lot of quote unquote stock to be corny in what the numbers there say. So I even think from that perspective, like he's just going to continue to inflate that bubble as long as he possibly can. hmm yeah i'm also i'm not familiar with like matt walsh's populist takes or what what he has to say about all that but i do think the daily wire types are gonna come into some sort of friction with this ai battle because you know if your ai critiques are going to be a little limp if you don't if you're if you're always saying oh we shouldn't demonize billionaires we shouldn't demonize people who are successful but but this ai hyper ai scalification is the result of runaway capitalism.

1:23:57And if you don't have an approach or an understanding of that, then all of your AI critiques are going to have no solutions. Ish, you know, it's ironically, it's interesting. Like, who do you trust more right now, China or the U.S. to build some sort of ethical AI that doesn't destroy the world? It's like this surveillance state, the authoritarian surveillance state or the U.S. And it's like, wow, yeah, actually, it's not obvious. Because there's like there at least is like a pretense toward a public interest there, where in the U.S. that's not the case. It's just, you know, gloves off, you know, zero sum.

1:24:42I just think it all needs to be shut down, to be honest with you. What's that? I genuinely just think it all needs to be shut down. I think we're at that point where we know that. And like the nice chat, like you can have, like you don't have to like go back to like zero AI. You can still have like, you know, there are the low level benefits of it. Like transcription is better. There's a lot of, there's a lot the technology can do when it comes to coding and software development. That's great. That's fine. but like this thing where you're like it's thinking for itself and doing its own do and you know acting on in its own self-interest like no no we're good like we got and trying to and trying to pull the rug over your eyes and say it's not right like it's doing it's it's acting in its own self-interest while obviously smart enough to try and uh deceive you that it's not doing anything wrong whatsoever to the point where you lose track of it and you have no idea Yeah, which they are all saying is happening.

1:25:40They are losing track of it. So, yeah, I mean, I think one of the reasons that we do what we do is that most of us realize or all of us realize some of these battles that are coming up in the future are going to require people who disagree on a lot of stuff to fundamentally agree that what we're coming up on is a battle between like prohumanism and transhumanism or whatever the hell they call this. because it's happening really quickly. Antihumanism, I think, is probably a better way to put it. And it's important to just recognize that people who support, like, humanity are going to be on, like, there are going to be a lot of, I think, strange bedfellows, but are up against, you know, Peter Thiel trying to convince the Matt Walshes of the world that it would be far worse to, you know, that, yes, it's scary.

1:26:32The future is scary. Yes, you're right. All of these possibilities could prove true. But you know what would be worse? Not doing anything. And that's the I think the sophisticated version of the seductive efforts happening from the oligarchs. um well uh we have a guest coming on the show next week who has been writing about ai 2027 uh so look forward to that and more doomerism on the artificial intelligence we're going to switch over to the second half of the show now if you want to check that out go to breaking points.com sign up become a member it's in the video description there'll be a link and we'll see you all there in the second half.

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