11/17/25: Trump Brands MTG As Traitor, Trump Flips On Epstein Files In Final Hour

24:32I don't even I'm not even I can't really think probably on immigration. I mean, yeah, let's say Cheney. it was it cheney it was cheney it was on january 6th that's when she turned so there you go right so here you could say you know you maybe on secot or maybe on like the national guard deployment and the authoritarianism right those sorts of things right but that's not it so it's not the liberal framing of the critique it's actually what i think it's so effective is it's explicitly about the campaign promises and the spirit of why trump got elected in the first place and saying hey hey, that was a betrayal.

25:06Now, the reason I think it may resonate with you or other commentators is that one of the ways that a lot of the Democrats have recognized to try and gain background is they're like, well, one way that we have to win is in a bigger tent is to convince people to vote for us. And one of the ways to do that is to say the other person that you voted for didn't deliver what you promised. Now, but that's an important distinction in terms of what makes somebody a, quote, turncoat and somebody who is actually authentically within that ideological sphere and then speaking out against that. The Republican critique of her right now, like the pro-Trump critique, is that she's undermining the administration, not that she is somebody who has turned on everything that she used to believe in the past.

25:48I don't think that that's the case. Now, in terms of her stylistic apology, I read that very much in the way of actually coming to terms with a couple of things. First and foremost was the Israel criticism, because I think it was a huge eye-opener for her in particular to take in a lot of the information about Israel, to conclude ultimately that we should not militarily support this nation. She even went so far as to call it a genocide. And I think what she understood is that in the past, you know, for a lot of politicians, they just bought the Israel propaganda kind of hook, line, and sinker.

26:20And what they watched is that nasty rhetoric be employed against them for simply acknowledging basic truths like, hey, you're slaughtering a lot of women and children. And I do think that that in particular, a lot of the nastiness and the rhetoric, when they see how that is weaponized against them for merely just speaking their own mind and for trying to uphold those very principles, that makes them reassess how they themselves have acted in the past and also how you want to try and build some consensus in the future. And so this is one of those where what they're all, everybody is trying to sketch out bets right now.

26:53We were just looking at the morning, this morning, Ted Cruz attacking Tucker Carlson. Part of it is because he wants to make a 20-28 run. Part of here with MTG is explicitly picking and saying, hey, I feel like a lot of the promises are being betrayed. But, you know, also with MTG, you know, to give her at least some credit, you know, if she is cynical, she often talks about her children. And she talks often about the ability to purchase a home. Her home state of Georgia, by the way, we were just looking at some economic stuff this morning. Georgia is not doing very well in terms of their economy.

27:23They just had those Democratic swings against them. If you want to preserve ability to win or winningness of the recent Republican coalition, you have to kind of return to a lot of those roots. She also passes a vibe check in terms of her ability to go and to do a lot of what Trump did in the original 2024 campaign. She was just on the Tim Dillon podcast. I thought she handled it incredibly well. She can go on The View. She handled herself, I thought there, quite confidently. She can pretty much go anywhere and handle anything. And that is something, again, you know, which I don't think that Donald Trump would actually do very well on a podcast right now if he's actually even remotely challenged, let's say, on Epstein or any of the promises that he originally made in 2024.

28:02Because the power is now real. For her, she can actually critique, and that's very, very powerful. I've talked previously about kind of the rise of Nick Fuentes and others. And one of the things that Emily has said, I'm borrowing this, it's not my take, but I think it's so deeply true, is there is not a lot of space in the MAGA machine and in particular in Republican media for people who are not liberals to critique the Trump administration. That doesn't exist. There's no permission structure. It's a lot like Joe Biden saying he's senile back in, what, 2023. That was, like, we could not say those things in Democratic-aligned spaces, even though a huge portion of the Democratic base was like, he's too old, he's too old, he's too old, he's too old.

28:42Well, there is a lot of American dissatisfaction, including people who voted for Donald Trump, who, again, are not liberals. These are not bleeding-heart liberals, but they are upset. And so to see them validated in this politician, it seems courageous. It's a big bet. Again, will it work out? I mean, who knows, right? It's only November. There's three years to go. still two years, basically, till the actual primary really gets started in, is it Iowa still for the Republicans? I forget. I think it's still Iowa and New Hampshire. Like, yeah, look, no, nobody's going to make any declarations. And she could absolutely crash and burn that.

29:16Midterm elections will be an interesting test. She's unendorsing. He said in a follow on truth, he wants somebody to run against her. Let's see. Let's see how it works out. But he's also, you know, going against Thomas Massey. And it doesn't look like that's really working out that well. For example, his most recent critiques, I think, are probably only going to strengthen Thomas Massey. Let's put that on the screen, for example, what we have here. Trump says, did Thomas Massey, sometimes referred to as Rand Paul Jr., because of the fact that he always votes against the Republican Party, get married already?

29:46Question, question, question. Boy, that was quick. No wonder the polls have him at less than 8 % chance of winning the election. Not true. Anyway, have a great life, Thomas, and question mark. His wife will soon find out that she's stuck with a loser. So, I mean, I think that that was a really, I don't know. I mean, it's one of those where a lot of people just looked at that are viscerally disgusted. Thomas Massey's wife tragically died, you know, of a health, his previous wife tragically died, you know, of a health incident. And he was obviously heartbroken. Recently, he just got remarried. And it's, I mean, he seemed pretty happy.

30:21I think that's great. You know, I think most normal people are like, wow, that's fantastic. You know, congratulations, Thomas, even in his announcement, He kind of made an ode to his dead wife and how he misses her all the time. And I think the visceral nature in which Trump attacked Massey is, Massey, you can say whatever you want about him. I've criticized him here before. I don't agree with everything that the guy says. But it's like MTG in I believe that what he says is what he thinks. And that's the most, right now, the biggest differentiation in all of politics. And for Trump to attack him like that.

30:56That pushed a lot of people the wrong way because it's like, really? You're going to attack Thomas Massey not only politically but on his personal life? And then you're going to embrace, you know, Lindsey Graham and all of these other people who are explicitly against your so-called campaign promises? And, you know, we could talk personal life there too all day long if we want to. It's like, who is your venom reserved for? And I think that really pushed a lot of people the wrong way, Crystal. Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr.

31:29had both been assassinated, and Black America was at a breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should.

32:12And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

32:59What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated.

33:36Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

33:58Let's be honest. If Trump said this about a designated MAGA enemy, no one would have a problem. No one on the right would have an issue with it. No one would have an issue with it. And he's done it many times. Of course. Yeah. I mean, you know, we could go back like the John McCain guy, I prefer my soldiers who don't get captured. You know, I told Ted Cruz his wife was ugly. Like the fact that people are taking genuine issue with Trump, like crossing a moral line here, that people on the right are taking issue with that, is a sign, number one, that they hold Thomas Massey in relatively high esteem and also see him as a principled actor, right?

34:35And number two, it's a sign of Trump's weakness, again. You know, the fact that there's anyone out there saying this was too far and this is disgusting and I can't believe it. I mean, how many too far disgusting things Trump says and does like all the fricking time? Right. So then it's like, okay, well, why was this one too far? and you know ultimately again listen Trump has been he's been president twice he almost won you know the the second time as well um he's been a very intelligent political actor so maybe we'll look back after all of this and say you know what he was right Thomas Massey lost in the primary Trump was able to crush him Marjorie Taylor Greene has been marched down to the party she's got enough future that's all still very possible at on the table but right now in this moment I think we're seeing cracks and fissures that we truly never seen before.

35:20And we're seeing a weakness with Trump with his own base that we've also really never seen before. Um, I do want to go back to this Marjorie Taylor green, uh, sought because this was the one where I saw the most pushback from the right on things that she's been saying and doing, because she did that big interview with Dana Bash. And Dana asked her, I think quite reasonably, like, OK, well, you're upset about Trump calling you a traitor. I've never seen you upset about his comments going too far before, even though he uses that type of rhetoric all the time. So why is it different now that it's you?

35:57And leads to a pretty, you know, an extraordinary admission for a politician of like, look, I'm sorry, you're right. You know, it's a reasonable criticism and I'm sorry. Let's take a listen to You posted on X that President Trump is, with his comments, fueling a, quote, hotbed of threats against you. Obviously, any threats to your safety are completely unacceptable. But we have seen these kinds of attacks or criticism from the president at other people. It's not new. And with respect, I haven't heard you speak out about it until it was directed at you.

36:35Dana, I think that's fair criticism. And I would like to say humbly, I'm sorry for taking part in the toxic politics. It's very bad for our country. And it's been something I've thought about a lot, especially since Charlie Kirk was assassinated, is that I'm only responsible for myself and my own words and actions. And I am going, I am committed. And I've been working on this a lot lately to put down the knives in politics. I really just want to see people be kind to one another. And we need to figure out a new path forward that is focused on the American people, because as Americans, no matter what side of the aisle we're on, we have far more in common then we have differences and we need to be able to respect each other with our disagreements.

37:30Wow. And Tiger, I wonder what you make of that, because the whole ethos of MAGA is own the lips. Like it's never been like some principled intellectual. Oh, we have these positions and we stick to them. Listen, there's some imaginary version of that that some think tankers have tried to put into place. But the reality is the core binding principle is own the lips. Give no quarter to your enemies. Give no quarter to anyone who is to the left of you whatsoever. And so this was the thing that I saw. You can tell me if you think differently, but that she got the most pushback from conservatives of basically like, how dare you go on CNN in the lion's den and you apologize to them and right on the heels of Charlie Kirk's assassination.

38:13and you want to go and she didn't apologize to you. There's no accountability here whatsoever. How dare you go in and say that you're sorry for participating in toxic politics? So I think this is in some ways like the riskiest approach that's going on The View and being very conciliatory, going on CNN with Dana Bash and being very conciliatory here. I wonder what you make of it. Yeah, I mean, it's fascinating to me because the reason, okay, let's explain too. The real reason is because the post-Charlie Kirk unity thing was, yeah, we all disagree. But what we're going to do is we're going to unite and we're going to get the Trump administration to, like, declare war on Antifa or whatever, right?

38:56Use NSPM-7. We talked about all of that. Well, she kind of had the similar take that I did. I was like, man, like, we have a sick culture. We have a sick society. It's actually really shocking to see somebody just assassinated in cold blood over their political views. and if we're all gonna have to live together, then there's just a simple way to get past that. You know, Trump's initial response, you know, I was like, oh my God, you know, it's the worst possible type of thing, pouring gasoline on the fire. That's what he does. He's often done it to his own political benefit. But I do think, I really believe that this is her genuine belief because she mentions the Charlie Kirk assassination.

39:33And she also, look, as you said about owning the libs, at a certain point though, at what point does it just become the central driving thing if you care about anything? If you really do care about anything, you can hate liberals. I certainly have my moments. But at a certain point, if you have children, if you care about housing, if you care about economy, if you care about jobs, if you care about people's ability to simply exist in the world, at what point does that just actually directly obscure all of the things that the administration has done, is doing, or is not addressing in those core issues.

40:09That's really where I thought, you know, the big jump point for 2025 was, is a lot of people really did vote, I think, not only in terms of opposition to Donald Trump, but a lot of people didn't come out to vote, you know, the so-called swing coalitions and others who were largely supportive of Trump in 2024, because actually thought he was going to help their life. And I do think that we're entering perhaps an age where the material outlook of your life, especially if you're my age, if you're 33 years old, I don't think it's good. I think it's bad. I think that if you're Gen Z, if you're younger in particular, I don't even, I mean, do any of us truly have a hope of doing better in life than our parents did?

40:48That is the actual American dream. People talk about it a lot, and many people have been willing to go past that in order to vote for something cultural. 2022 is an example. Even Trump, I think in a lot of ways, 2024. she's making a bet that those things are becoming so bad, so ever-present, that she actually wants to try and to focus on that. And so I do think there's a commendation. Part of the reason why I think a lot of the Republicans are speaking out against is ultimately that is what unites much of MAGA is, look, there's a reason they don't talk a lot about the inconsistencies within MAGA.

41:20There's a reason they don't acknowledge the Epstein files mentioning Trump. There's a reason they don't talk about the corruption, let's say, of the Trump administration or any of the many faults from personnel, the inconsistent Venezuela, a lot of the stupid and insane stuff that they have done currently is because it's about uniting in opposition to a different political agenda. And I think that if you start to look at things in more material views, and also with a lot of the other country, it does kind of lead you back to where Marjorie Taylor Greene is right now. And I do think considering how that view of power has been now exercised by the Trump administration, and a lot of people reject it, it's also not all that politically popular right now.

42:00People don't really care about owning anyone if your life is not getting better. They just don't. I have a burgeoning theory, a little kernel of a theory that I'll put out there and people can tell me what you think about this because honestly, I don't know enough about Facebook world to really say for sure. But when we think of someone being very online, we think of them largely being like super on Twitter, right? Super on Twitter and these like weird podcast realms or whatever. Like J.D. Vance is that version of very, very online. And we've been talking here about increasingly since Elon purchased Twitter, it has sort of damned the Republicans in a sense because they believe that all their like sadistic, you know, fascist porn nonsense is way more popular than it actually is.

42:48And so they've been totally out over their skis, the DHS, just like Nazi posting on Maine, all this kind of crap. Right. Marjorie Taylor Greene is this is also very online, but she comes out of like the Facebook boomer mom world, which is still more which is more connected to those like material concerns, you know, inflation. And oh, my God, here's the prices at the grocery store. And also is going to maybe have more of that sense of, you know, just sort of disgust at the overall at the political system and the nastiness and the viciousness. So it's again, this is I'm flirting with this theory.

43:26I'm not asserting it for sure. But her different orientation here and the fact that she's been able to put to pick up on some vibrations within the Republican base that other politicians did not pick up on and be a little bit ahead of the curve, maybe because she is in touch with a different constituency than most Republican politicians have been. and that, you know, the J.D. Vance's of the world are. So that could be part of why she's positioning herself in a different way, because the media and the content she's consuming and the people that she is sort of centering her views on and, you know, using as her own barometer for where the bases are a different group than the kind of like elite influencers and podcasters that many Republican politicians are much more attuned to.

44:11Very, maybe, could be online. I could just be being a little bit more in touch, You know, just go talk to people. Go ask them. What's bugging you? You know, I talk to a lot of newer parents. That's who I've mostly been hanging out with. What are people complaining about? Daycare prices, right? They're talking about inflation. They're talking about the difficulty of juggling things, buying a new house, interest rates. That dominates 95 % of the discussion. It's not even really political, but you and I both know that is political. Whereas, you know, if you're online or if you're ever on Twitter, then a lot of it is like, oh, someone said this.

44:44how nasty of the left or why we have to crush them. I've always said I think the Twitter thing has been a huge problem. I think a lot of them are huffing their own bullshit. They're basically the mirror image of the Biden administration. They're posting charts about how well the economy is doing when every piece of consumer sentiment data says that it's going the opposite direction. All you have to do, if you are just as consistent as you were under the Biden administration at looking at fundamentals for why people angry, discontent, upset, which leads to the Trump popular vote in 2024, then it doesn't, all you have to do is stay consistent to that to see the same playbook run under Trump.

45:21In fact, a sign that you're a hack is if you're doing the opposite of what you said back in 2024. So, you know, maybe she's just staying consistent with that. I have no idea what it is, but it is noteworthy. And of course, what's most noteworthy is this is on the issue of Epstein. Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969.

45:51In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

46:37I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Nat Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

47:14What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where Culture Meets the Soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated.

47:52Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

48:12Turning now to the issue of Jeffrey Epstein and the vote to release the Epstein files, an extraordinary late night truth from Donald Trump saying Republicans now should vote to release them. Let's put it up here on the screen. As I said on Friday night aboard Air Force One to the fake news media, House Republicans should vote to release the Epstein files because we have nothing to hide. It's not what he said, and we'll show you the audio just in a second. But he says, it's time to move on from this Democratic hoax perpetuated by the radical left lunatics in order to deflect from the great success of the Republican Party, including our recent victory on the Democratic shutdown.

48:46The Department of Justice has already turned over tens of thousands of pages to the public on Epstein, are looking at various Democratic operatives, Bill Clinton, Reid Hoffman, Larry Summers, and their relationship. The House Oversight Committee have whatever they are legally entitled to. I don't care! All I do care about is the Republicans are back on point, which is the economy, blah, blah, blah. So the whole point is he just says nobody cared about Epstein when he was alive, and if the Democrats had anything, they would have released it before a landslide election. Some members of the Republican Party are being used, and we can't let that happen.

49:16Let's start talking about the Republican Party's record-setting achievements, not fall into the Epstein trap, which is actually a curse on the Democrats, not us, make America great again. So what he's saying is let's vote to release the Epstein files because it only implicates the Democrats. Let's not talk about the Epstein files because if we do, it's going to distract from Republicans. If we do talk about them, it is actually just all about the Democrats. Anyways, so I am completely absolved. Also, just to be clear, 100 percent, because people are not making this emphatic. As of literally 48 hours ago, he was telling everybody don't vote for the Epstein files.

49:51100 percent. His own White House brought Lauren Boebert to the White House Situation Room to be briefed by the FBI director and the Department of Justice, telling her, please do not sign this discharge petition. He called Nancy Mace. Huge lobbying effort. The only reason he's saying it now and giving permission is that it looked like at the very least 50 and possibly up to 100 Republicans were going to vote for the Epstein files release anyways. And so he backtracked. Originally, here's what he said on Air Force One 48 hours ago. Take a listen. Why was your team encouraging Congressman Boebert, Congresswoman Mace to not pursue this?

50:27We think it's bad to talk about it because it gets away from the subject of how well the Republicans are doing. We have the greatest economy. We have the largest investment ever made in our country's history. We have all of these great things happening. We have very little inflation, whereas he had record-setting the biggest inflation in history. All of these things are good. And when you talk about the Epstein hoax, what happens is you're not talking about how well we've done. Mr. President, on that subject, it's the whole purpose behind that. They want to waste people's time. And some of the dumber Republicans like that.

51:02Mr. President, on that subject, are we going to see it's mostly Democrats? So there you go. That's what he said. So whatever he claims, as I said, Republicans should vote for it. That's not what he said. Chris, that's what he showed there. He got it. This is this was 100 percent. I've never seen this before. I've never seen him get absolutely destroyed like he had to do. This is this is W and Obama level, like in the second term where the base or the Republican Party is going to take a vote against the White House. And the White House just has to eat shit and swallow it and pretend that they supported it the whole time.

51:38I've never seen this in 10 years of covering Donald Trump. Yeah, no, I mean, it truly is a first. They were whipping super hard against this thing. They were threatening Republicans that he would maybe, you know, endorse an opponent against them. They were offering carrots. So we'll support you in your race if you don't vote for it. I mean, they were going all in. And then apparently what happened is when they realized we're going to have mass defections here. he thought it would appear less weak for him to completely flip and now support oh of course i want you to support releasing the files i've always wanted that you know we're all like five minutes ago remember you being adamantly opposed on the other side of this he thought that would be a less weak position than watching perhaps some 100 republicans vote against his explicit wishes.

52:31Now, the other game that's going on here is you'll recall that we could put B3. Let's go and jump forward to B3 and put this up on the screen. He asked Pam Bondi to investigate the Epstein ties to various Democrats, Reid Hoffman, Larry Summers. There was one other one as well. But in any case, it's like look into those things in the Epstein files. Not him, of course, even though he's mentioned thousands and thousands of times just in the emails that were released last week, but don't look into that. Just look into some of my ideological adversaries. And so what Thomas Massey and others who understand this process are saying is that if there's an ongoing investigation, he could use that and his government could use that to say, even if this vote goes through the House and this vote goes through the Senate and he signs it, that those certain files, oh, we can't release those because now there's an ongoing and active investigation.

53:28So that may be part of the game that's going on here as well. Not to mention, these files are being held by his own government. I don't think anyone has any expectation that they're not going to be, you know, scrubbed, manipulated, pieces withheld that are unflattering to him or to his ideological allies. So I think he just decided the risk was too great on the other side and the political damage too great on the other side of continuing to appear like he was, you know, super guilty, obviously, from his behavior. He looked really, really guilty and then extremely weak when a significant chunk of your own party over your active wishes still votes for this thing.

54:10And one more thing, Sagar, here is you got to give Ro Khanna tons of credit here. This is his bill. This is Ro Khanna's bill, a Democratic bill. And while Democrats early on, you remember back when we interviewed Alyssa Slotkin, the line coming from almost all of them was the Epstein files are a distraction. Sure, we'd like to know what's in them, but those are a distraction. We need to be focused on the real issues affecting the American people. And like most people felt like you could do both. And number two, just from a pure political standpoint, I think Ro Khanna recognized just like Marjorie Taylor Greene did and Thomas Massey did.

54:46This is a real weak spot for Trump. This is a real problem for him. And so we need to press on this. We need to be like a dog with the bone on this thing. And lo and behold, his insight there and his persistence to push this thing and to get ideological allies on the other side of the aisle in Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene and others to stand alongside him. That is causing maybe the biggest damage, the most extraordinary damage that we have seen to Trump and his image with his own base that, you know, in the whole time that he's been on the scene. I mean, you know, part of it is also just the extreme nature of the issue.

55:27Like, this is Epstein. This is a disgusting pedophile. This is a guy who was, you know, hanging, palling around with the literally, like, the global elite. This is now a 10-year, sorry, a five, six-year-long thing that's baked in, I think, to a lot of American consciousness, especially for newer entrants into the political spectrum. Because let's say you're a younger person. You already know that the system is rigged. You hate a lot of the elites. then you learn about the Epstein thing. You're like, wow, they're actually like depraved, disgust. They protect their own interests and all. And then you see Trump, who you believed was somebody who would speak against the system.

56:05It was revolutionary. He promised to release those files, come in, be named in those files, lobby, act guilty, make it so that, you know, they're not going to be released to everything, possibly in your power to try and con the American people to say that there's nothing in them exactly, even though many of the members of your administration said they were in them. It's just too much for people. That's why I think this issue is the one on which there is such a break. It's also where a lot of Republicans, they're like, look, man, people can forgive for a lot. They can't forgive covering up pedophilia.

56:34It's just one of those where that transcends or is supposed to all political lines, right? And that's part of why the salience of this issue is so important, not to mention all of the foreign connections, including to Israel, which I think is a big reason why they also don't want most of the truth to actually come out. It's heartening to me to see Republicans who do try and take the Trump tack just get ridiculously attacked. Let's put this one up here on the screen. This is B4, please, just to give you a little bit of a taste. You had Congressman Troy Nails. He's a very Trump sycophant. He tries to take the Trump line.

57:05He gets destroyed in a lot of his replies. He says, I'll be voting no on the Epstein hoax. The Democrats are using the hoax to distract us from the winning of the Trump administration. My message to Republican colleagues, don't let this noise keep us from delivering on the mandate the American people gave us. As you guys can see, he's got over 17 ,000 replies. And look, you know, Trump is not, Twitter is not entirely real life. But if you look at it, you know, a lot of these are big time Republican reply accounts that are like, this is disgusting. That's not a single good reason not to do it. Pedophile protector, you know, even Nancy Mace, other congressman, it says weird and sketchy how you guys are acting here.

57:43You've got APAC tracker that's all up in there. By the way, Marjorie Taylor Greene has been posting a lot of her APAC tracking, you know, graphics just to show you the APAC tracker who we had on earlier that they say is not going to, that they say, you know, just to show everybody how powerful they are. And now APAC is even fundraising off of the interview that we had with APAC tracker to say that those are the radicals that are trying to take them down. But I just want to show people, I think, this thing with Congresswoman or the Democratic representative, Stacey Plaskett, where she was getting texts in the middle of a hearing from Jeffrey Epstein is part of the reason, I think, is that a lot of Americans actually do understand not just the bipartisan nature of this, but how it really does ensnare all elites.

58:29And the more that Trump, who was a revolution against those elites, appears to just be one of those people, which you could always say maybe he was, and that's been a lot of the critique, but to really hammer that home in this story, that is what people find so disgusting, I think about it. And so let's give an example here, just the fulsome nature of part of the reason why these files need to be released, because they implicate so many people, is these show that in a 2019 hearing, Michael Cohen is testifying that Epstein is texting the Democratic representative from the U.S. Virgin Islands, where he owns the island, and who that island has done quite a bit to cover up a lot of what he did while he was there.

59:09Let's watch the video and let's take a listen. Obama was president of the United States. And while we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way. Attorney Klein privilege, yes, I will turn it over. You, as my friend Mr. Meadows pointed out, misled this committee even today in a written submission that contradicted your testimony. You have suggested you are going to review that. Are you going to review it in our next break to correct the record, yes or no? Yes. Question. You helped out the president's campaign or were involved in the campaign as a representative, as a spokesman, even in your words today.

59:46It was your idea for the campaign dating back to 2011. Is that accurate? Yes or no? Yes. Mr. Weisenberg and other individuals. Miss Rona, who are those individuals? Are they with the Trump Organization? They are. There are other people that we should be meeting with. So Alan Weisenberg is the chief financial officer. Uh-huh. You got to quickly give us as many names as you can so we can get to them. Yes, ma 'am. As Ms. Rona, what is Ms. Rona's business? Rona Graff is Mr. Trump's executive assistant. And would she be able to corroborate many of the statements that you've made here? Yes, she was.

1:00:21Her office is directly next to his, and she's involved in a lot. I mean, how crazy is that, Crystal? You literally have her getting live text messages from Jeffrey Epstein, prodding questions. she's looking down at her phone using those questions with Michael Cohen and then he's praising her good work all of this matters let's be 100 % clear why does it matter put the next one on the screen Julie Brown has done a great job of covering this we've covered it here as well some of the U.S. Virgin Islands corruption that has happened with Epstein as she points out she has accepted huge amounts of money from Epstein was one of the few people who refused to return campaign contributions even after it was clear he had committed a lot of the crimes against girls So just again to show you all and remember that there were all kinds of cover-ups going on in the U.S.

1:01:11Virgin Islands, including with prosecutors and others to stop some of the crimes in the estate from being released out into the public. And she is at the center of all of this. So that's the point is this does ensnare everybody. Yeah, it ensnares Trump. I don't personally care whether it ensnares Trump, Democrat, whoever. I just want the information to come out because I do think it's so important to show how depraved and disgusting the American elite is, not just in their personal conduct, but how they'll do business with anyone and how that person who is in this depraved universe uses it to his own ends to enrich himself and to act on behalf of multiple foreign governments.

1:01:50I think that's a pretty big story. I think it confirms what a lot of people think about our system, about our government, about the way things in power actually work. But that's part of why Trump, who's in power, doesn't want it to come out. So, you know, you put this stuff together. This is why it all needs to come out. We can't have people like this in Congress, period. At least that's my standard. Yeah. Now, in fairness to her, after major pushback, she did decide to return the contributions that had come from Epstein. OK. But, you know, the yeah, I mean, look, if anyone is out there watching a program that only cares about the Epstein connections on one partisan side or the other, like you need to get a new you need to get a new media habit, because obviously what Epstein exposes first and foremost is that, you know, these partisan differences when you talk about at the elite level, oftentimes they crumble and they operate in very similar manner.

1:02:45But I will say at this point, the most important information to know is about the president of the United States, specifically because of those foreign government entanglements that DropSite alone effectively has been covering in particular with regard to his connections to Israel. We need to know if the president of the United States is compromised by Israel or by, you know, there was a Russian connection, too. I'd like to know about that as well or any other country that may be involved. does trump believe that these foreign governments have information on him that he would not like to come out that is a very active question and that is very very important and central right now given the political power structure um the last thing i'll say just to go back to that uh troy neils or whatever that guy's name is that put up that embarrassing tweet about how he was going to vote against them like what does he do now because now trump's turned completely and now he says no i I want you to vote for the release.

1:03:41So this guy who completely humiliated himself on Trump's behalf out of his sycophantic nature to bend the name saying, no, no, sir, I promise I will do the thing that you want me to do and vote against this release. Now Trump has completely flipped his position. So what's this dude going to do? I mean, it's just the level of humiliation that is going to come for you. If you try to be like a good Trump foot soldier, it's this is the most routine thing we have seen over the course of multiple Trump administrations at this point, like you will be humiliated. You will be forced to defend things that are completely indefensible.

1:04:18You will be made to like eat your words and just completely cuck yourself and look like the lamest, weakest person on the planet. So congratulations to that guy. Way to go. Yeah, I totally agree. And let's let's end with this new ad that's being released by many of the Epstein survivors. It's being played nationally to try and release the Epstein files and just keep the issue salient. Let's take a listen.

1:04:53I suffered so much pain. So much pain. So much pain. I suffered so much pain.

1:05:04I was 14 years old. I was 16 years old. I was 16. 17. 14 years old. This is me. This was me. This is me. When I met Jeffrey Epstein. This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein.

1:05:22There are about a thousand of us.

1:05:32It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows. It's time to shine a light into the darkness.

1:05:52Very powerful. As you can see there from the Epstein survivor, I think they're going to keep this a live issue. It's not going away. any attempt by the Trump administration to try and cover it up. Good luck to you folks, because I don't think that it's going to work.

1:06:28Mandy B unpacks black history and culture with comedy, clarity, and conversations that shake the status quo. The Crown Act in New York was signed in July of 2019, and that is a bill that was passed to prohibit discrimination based on hairstyles associated with race. To hear this and more, listen to Selective Ignorance with Mandy B from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Nat Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends.

1:07:03Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway. We are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real? If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have? Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car? When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings. Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you? I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

1:07:44Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Mind Games, a new podcast exploring NLP, aka neurolinguistic programming. Is it a self-help miracle? A shady hypnosis scam? Or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.