11/20/25: Dems Shatter Polling Record, Trump Prosecutor Bungles Comey Case, Zohran To Meet With Trump

12:52Saagar Enjeti:That's fair. It was not as big of an election, right? You know, it's much lower turnout. Yeah, but we're talking about midterms. No, you're totally right. But I'm saying not just midterms, but in general, because these districts are locked for years, right? So it'd be five years now. So in the next presidential election, in a high turnout, low propensity election, what makes you possibly think that you're going to win that? You know, you could get nuked, which I think you're on this point. I think you're on track. So they may have done themselves a favor. They may, yeah, they may actually be like,

13:18Zohran Mamdani:you know, you're right. No, for real though. We should get rid of those maps because, I mean, they are definitely in danger because inherently when you redraw these maps, you make some of the districts that are still Republican districts, you make them close.

13:29Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, like 5248, which is a death knell. I mean, look, the Tea Party, just to give an anecdote, my congressman, his name was Chet Edwards from where I was from. He was always famous for being a Democrat who represented the most Republican district. And he won for 20-some years. And then in 2010, even though he faced multiple election challenges, he got blown out by, I don't even remember the margin. It was unbelievable. He didn't even have a chance. So if it's a Tea Party-style wave that's coming, I mean, these districts, it's not unheard of to see two, five, 10, 15-point swings, which is what happened in his case.

14:09Saagar Enjeti:This is a guy who literally survived multiple, even in the Bush era, post-911, he was able to win. And then the Tea Party wave came, wiped out, literally completely.

14:18Zohran Mamdani:Well, 2008 was like that on the Democratic side. Yeah, you're right. There were all kinds of people who raised no money and nobody thought would win. And then suddenly they're being sworn into Congress. Tom Perriello, remember him? Tom Perriello in Virginia, yeah. Yeah, Virginia. Glenn Knight down in Virginia Beach was another one of those where it was like, oh, we didn't think that was even a possibility. And now here you are. So yeah, they are kind of playing with fire with that. And I was just thinking back. So we started the block with the generic ballot, which is just you say, OK, if your choice is a Democrat or Republican, who do you pick for Congress?

14:46Zohran Mamdani:And so if we think about in Virginia, Abigail Spanberger won by like by 13 points, roughly. And Kamala Harris had won the state of Virginia by six points. So that's like a seven point Democratic improvement over Kamala Harris's performance. So, I mean, I think I think Democrats with a maybe a five point generic ballot lead, Like that's about where I would put it right now. And that's roughly where the averages have it. I think they have it somewhere between four and five. That other poll that I mentioned, the Marquette Law School poll has a generic ballot plus five. That would be enough that even if they do all their gerrymandering and the Supreme Court comes in and they do whatever their mess they're doing with the voter rolls, which is all stuff that's really happening, like it would still be a large enough popular vote victory that Democrats would get control of the House.

15:37Zohran Mamdani:Now, they have tilted the landscape enough that it will require a significant popular vote victory from the Democrats in order to get control of the House. But I think it's looking like it's going to be too big to rig. It's at this point, given the disgust and the dissatisfaction with the Trump administration and how weak he is right now, how disgusted people are, how unhappy they are with the economy and the fact that those trends are probably going to continue. It's looking like a pretty, pretty heavy reckoning is headed for the Republican Party.

16:03Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, let me give a shout out to People's Pundit, Rich Barris. I've talked about him before. He's like a MAGA pundit pollster. Honestly, he's actually pretty accurate if going back into 2020 and to 2024. But he's been on Steve Bannon's show sounding the alarm about this. So the smart MAGA set, they know. The ones who aren't complete sycophants, like, they get the deal. Pressler has sounded the alarm a number of times. Has he really? Oh, I haven't seen that.

16:27Zohran Mamdani:He did leading into the off year, you know, this year's elections as well.

16:30Saagar Enjeti:Oh, right, in terms of registration. I mean, look, does anybody really think Pennsylvania is not going to be a massive wipeout? Like they barely won it in 2024. And in 2016, Biden won it by like, what, a point, something like that? It's always been a, it's just a swingy state. And so, yeah, I don't know. I mean, they're going to, look, midterms, again, barring a black swan event, anything can happen. Obviously, Roe versus Wade came out of nowhere. Save the Democrats. Not saying it couldn't happen. Certainly could. But for where things are right now, it's bad. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life.

17:10Saagar Enjeti:And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.

17:17Zohran Mamdani:Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.

17:22Saagar Enjeti:Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, This episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

18:06Zohran Mamdani:What if mind control is real?

18:08Saagar Enjeti:If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

18:12Zohran Mamdani:Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

18:15Saagar Enjeti:When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

18:19Zohran Mamdani:Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

18:22Saagar Enjeti:I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

18:25Zohran Mamdani:Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

18:42Saagar Enjeti:It's about engineering consciousness.

18:44Zohran Mamdani:Mind Games is the story of NLP. its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

19:09Krystal Ball:Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. have both been assassinated, and Black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson.

19:38Saagar Enjeti:To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people would die. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest.

19:56Krystal Ball:It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

20:11Zohran Mamdani:Well, let's get to another one of the Trump administration's finest hours here with regard to their prosecution of Jim Comey. This is hilarious. Put the second terror sheet, guys, the New York Times terror sheet up on the screen. I'm going to read from a good bit of this. So you guys remember, OK, the U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia resigned because he did not or he was pushed down, whatever. He did not want to charge Comey because he did not think there was enough there. So instead, they put in this total Trump loyalist hack named Lindsey Halligan, who has never tried, she's never been involved in a criminal case, okay, never done this before.

20:48Zohran Mamdani:They put her in, and then she has to go present this case to a grand jury and secure an indictment like days after she's put into this office, again, having never done this before. So Comey, of course, has the best legal team you could possibly have. His lawyer on his side has presented over 100 different cases to the Supreme Court, knowledgeable, experienced, et cetera. And they are making the case that this prosecution of him is a vindictive prosecution to be thrown out entirely. And of course, you've got Trump's words in the past and putting this Lindsey Halligan person in and all of that. But in addition to that, we are now learning that she failed to present the whole case to the grand jury.

21:34Zohran Mamdani:So let me read from the courtroom exchange here just so you can get how extraordinary this is. They say, Trump loyalists admits grand jury never saw final Comey indictment. A federal judge grilled the prosecutors pursuing charges against James Comey, the former FBI director, on Wednesday, interrogating them with a series of questions that underscored irregularities in the case, including that the full grand jury did not see the indictment it was supposed to have approved. The questioning by the judge, Michael Nakmanoff, took place at an excruciatingly awkward hearing in federal district court in Alexandria, Virginia, that was nominally held to consider the narrow issue of whether the charges against Comey had been filed as an act of vindictive retribution by President Trump.

22:16Zohran Mamdani:But Judge Nakmanoff peppered prosecutors with questions on a range of topics, including Mr. Trump's own statements about wanting Comey to be indicted and an earlier decision by career members of the U.S. Attorney's Office in Alexandria to forego bringing charges. In one remarkable moment, the judge posed some of his questions directly to Lindsay Halligan, the U.S. Attorney handpicked by Trump to bring the case, quizzing her on how she had presented it to the grand jury. Just this week, that subject led another judge involved in the case to suggest she may have engaged in prosecutorial misconduct.

22:49Zohran Mamdani:Judge Nakmanoff's inquiries were extraordinary by almost any measure, but the answers prosecutors gave him in return were even more so. At one point, Ms. Halligan admitted she had never shown the second and final version of the Comey indictment to the full grand jury before the foreperson signed the charging document. Mr. Comey's lawyers immediately seized on that irregularity, calling it another reason to dismiss the case entirely. At another point, one of Ms. Halligan's subordinates, Tyler Lemons, acknowledged that someone in the deputy attorney general's office had instructed him not to discuss in open court whether his predecessors had or had not written a memo laying out their reasons for not bringing charges because that was privileged information.

23:30Zohran Mamdani:In the end, Mr. Lemons, appearing unnerved under questioning, confessed that the prosecutors who had previously handled the case had indeed written a draft of a memo declining prosecution. They say the spectacle played out over 90 minutes. So TLDR here, you've got Trump, who has said plainly, we can put the next, I think this is the third element in this block, has said plainly that he wanted to see Comey prosecuted. So that's pretty indicative of a vindictive retribution here. Then you have Halligan, who has no idea what she's doing, who screws up the grand jury presentation. And effectively, Sagar, what happened here is they wanted to indict him on three charges, the government did.

24:09Zohran Mamdani:One of those charges got rejected. So what you have to do in that case is you have to represent the, you know, the indictment with just the two charges you're going forward with. She didn't do that. She just had the foreperson, who is just an ordinary citizen and doesn't know better, sign off on the two charges that they did accept. So she screwed up the grand jury process. And then you have also hanging over this, these other two individuals who I think had to be sourced from other offices because you couldn't get anyone who was reasonable to go along with this, having to be forced to admit that their colleagues previously had said we shouldn't actually charge this guy, which again is indicative of this was a vindictive prosecution.

24:51Zohran Mamdani:prosecution, it's supposedly a very high bar to meet. You have to show that there would not have been charges, that this case would not have gone forward if you didn't have this, you know, vindictive drive from the president of the United States. But it's looking increasingly like even that high bar, they're likely to meet. So you have the attempted, you know, authoritarian prosecution, retribution against the enemies. And then you also have just classic Trump administration clownish incompetence and buffoonish behavior where they have someone who has never been involved in a criminal case before now in this extraordinarily high pressure role and absolutely blowing it.

25:28Saagar Enjeti:And they are, this is like the latest example of, you know, somebody called it, you know, the authoritarian of dunces. And I thought that was that. I actually thought that was very apt because this has now been the Halligan case against Comey. than you have previously sandwiched guy or any of these other things that have fallen apart completely in court and judges literally laughing at them. And look, I mean, I'm not defending James Comey. I think James Comey is a sack of shit. We've covered it here before. Even in terms of the charges against him, I'm like, look, I actually think there might be something there.

26:02Saagar Enjeti:And especially with the way that he handled himself, not just with Trump, with Hillary, that whole thing. I was there, I covered. It was insane the way that he handled that entire case. Russiagate as well. like this is not a man whose hands are clean. Of course, though, they go after him, you know, in the most clownish, buffoonish way possible and are now making it so that the judge very well throw out this entire thing because of their own idiocy. And so this kind of gets to, I remember liberals would always be upset with Merrick Garland and others for incompetently pursuing those cases against Trump.

26:33Saagar Enjeti:This is the same, if you are upset with Comey about Russiagate, which I am, you know, still am. I am too. It was bad. It was horrible. The Hillary thing, the emails case, I will never forget that press conference about Hillary in October. If you're a Hillary supporter, you should be mad. I mean, by the way, she clearly was guilty of sin and the fact that he didn't charge her is still ridiculous. Whatever, it's been eight or so years. But the way he handled that, the way he handled everything, if you're gonna go after him, then you have to do it right. He's a multimillionaire with great lawyers and the entire liberal establishment behind him.

27:07Saagar Enjeti:You can't fuck things up with basic rudimentary errors which literally make it the clownish and have it so a federal judge by the way in Alexandria Virginia where already you know look I literally live there okay none of my neighbors are voting to convict James Comey he could be guilty as shit they still wouldn't get picked but even if you know so you were going up against strong hit headwinds anyways and now you know looking at the way that this is it probably won't even make it to trial so yeah what it's looking

27:32Zohran Mamdani:like and look on the other hand you know maybe they always thought that this would fail or didn't really care and just wanted to like send a signal you know if you are less of a media figure and less wealthy than jim comey i mean this is i'm sure not fun for jim comey either by the way but he's going to be fine you know if you're someone who is less well positioned and can't get the guy who you know presented over 100 cases the supreme court to be your lawyer if you're not in that position then you still see their behavior and the way you know they're digging up they're now trying to charge Eric Swalwell with this mortgage fraud stuff and Letitia James.

28:08Zohran Mamdani:And obviously, they already went after Comey for this thing, which by the, to be honest with you, the way this case has come out has made me feel like there was less there there with Jim Comey. Like, it's making me, in my opinion, look more innocent than he actually looked before that before they tried to charge him and tried to indict him here. But in any case, you know, maybe the mess is just an attempt to send a message. Maybe it's just an attempt to scare people. And they didn't even really care that much, whether it succeeded at trial. They just wanted to like exact as much pain on him as they could and send a message to their opposition.

28:38Zohran Mamdani:But it doesn't look like this is going to get too far out of the gates here, which is, I guess, a good thing to see.

28:44Saagar Enjeti:Looking bad, looking bad indeed. And it's one of those where, you know, this clownish behavior just makes it so that, I mean, first of all, you know, what about double jeopardy? These other things, you know, that you could look previously, if you actually do care about accountability for these types of individuals doing it this way, just the worst possible. All right, we got a good guest standing by, Ross Barkin. Let's get to it. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

29:18Saagar Enjeti:The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're gonna have a terrible time with men. actor storyteller

29:24Zohran Mamdani:and unapologetic Aquarian visionary

29:28Saagar Enjeti:Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood a sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership he really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses in different places but just an embracing of the isness of it all If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

30:11Zohran Mamdani:What if mind control is real?

30:14Saagar Enjeti:If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

30:17Zohran Mamdani:Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

30:21Saagar Enjeti:When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

30:25Zohran Mamdani:Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

30:28Saagar Enjeti:I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

30:31Zohran Mamdani:Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

30:48Saagar Enjeti:It's about engineering consciousness.

30:49Zohran Mamdani:Mind Games is the story of NLP. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

31:15Saagar Enjeti:Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles.

31:17Krystal Ball:I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr. had both been assassinated, and Black America was at a breaking point. Writing and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson.

31:44Saagar Enjeti:To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.

32:00Krystal Ball:This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

32:16Zohran Mamdani:All right, guys. So there's a whole lot of Zoran stuff going on. He's supposed to meet with President Trump. He's blocking endorsements, all kinds of things that are happening. Also, other New York City primary challenges coming from the left. So to break all of this down, we have the perfect person, Ross Barkin, who is an expert on all of these things and is a columnist for New York Magazine. Great to see you, Ross.

32:34Krystal Ball:Good to see you, man. Good to see you, man. Excited to be on.

32:37Zohran Mamdani:Yeah, of course. So let's put the Trump truth up on the screen here. the announcement that he's meeting with the communist mayor of New York City, he says. Zoran Kwame Mamdani has asked for a meeting. We've agreed that this meeting will take place at the Oval Office on Friday, November 21st. That would be tomorrow. Further details to follow. Zoran was on with Chris Hayes over on MSNBC, and he was asked about this visit. Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

33:02Saagar Enjeti:Zoran Mamdani, nice to have you here, Mr. Mayor-elect. Good to be here. Thanks for having me. Is the White House meeting real? Who knows what's real these days? But do you understand it as a real thing? We did reach out to the White House. And my team reached out because of a commitment that I made to New Yorkers, that I would be willing to meet with anyone and everyone so long as it was to the benefit of eight and a half million people who call the city home and their struggle to afford

33:22Krystal Ball:the most expensive city in the United States of America.

33:25Zohran Mamdani:So, Ross, what do you think about this move from Zoran?

33:27Krystal Ball:You have to do it, right? I think it makes sense. You know, he is the incoming mayor. Donald Trump is the president of the United States. And I think, you know, there are ways to deal with Trump. And I think one of the ways to do it is to really hit him head on. I think you meet with him. You can certainly stand up to him in public. I think the governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, has had some success wrangling with Trump in that they talk on the phone fairly frequently. And at least for now, there hasn't been a National Guard incursion into New York City. I mean, we'll see. They have an ICE agent running around.

33:59Krystal Ball:So, you know, I think it's a natural move to make. You have the meeting. You see where it goes. was you check Trump's temperature. And of course, there are going to be fights. It's going to get volatile. But I do think you at least start off from a place of some core reality. You hope that Trump will not make your life overly difficult, though. The reality is he probably will anyway, but it doesn't hurt to take a meeting.

34:22Zohran Mamdani:I wonder if Hochul advised him, actually.

34:24Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, I wonder about this, Ross. I feel like it'd be to his political benefit to get into a fight with Trump. I mean, he made a big portion of his campaign speech, Trump, turn up the volume, and all of that. Why, you know, look what happened with Whitmer. Look what happened with all of these other politicians who have met with Trump and kind of seen as kissing his ass. I mean, going in there and, you know, quote, confronting him or making a scene would almost certainly backfire on the city. I'm not sure I really understand this.

34:51Krystal Ball:Well, I think there's two factors at play. On one hand, yes, you know, battling Trump can lift your political standing. You saw it with Karen Bass in Los Angeles where her career was really resuscitated after the guards showed up. there. And the same can happen for Zoran Bamdani as well. I think at least having a meeting with the president at the outset before you take office is not hurtful to his brand. It's not destructive. And maybe it pays some dividends. Maybe not at all. It may pay nothing. But I think, you know, Kathy Hochul has spoken with Trump on the phone many times. She's gone to the Oval Office.

35:27Krystal Ball:She still combats them in public. They're not friendly. But I think it's an inside-outside strategy. I think Zoran is not going to stop being anti-Trump banning means or stop calling out his many destructive policies. But I think, you know, pursuing insider outsider strategy is not the worst thing to do. I mean, we'll see what comes up.

35:51Zohran Mamdani:Claudia Sheinbaum in Mexico is another one who's, you know, played this game and, you know, has it seems to have Trump seems to like her. They seem to have a good working relationship, even though, you know, she stands up for Mexico sovereignty when and how she needs to. I also think, you know, it could be kind of a political ploy to show, look, I reached out. I was ready to work together. My bottom line is I don't care whether we're political adversaries. I'm just trying to deliver for the people of New York. So I think that may be how he's trying to play it. But it's going to be very, very interesting to see what comes out of this meeting and what impression is given by the president, what he has to say about the meeting after this.

36:27Zohran Mamdani:I also wanted to ask you about the latest with regard to Zoran and Chi Osei, who is a DSA member, although my understanding is a relatively new DSA member, who's announced a primary challenge against Hakeem Jeffries. And you might think that Zoran being the insurgent leftist would be like, let's go. And they have a relationship as well of trust from the past to build on. But instead, not only has he not endorsed Chi's bid, but he actively went to a DSA meeting last night to speak out against DSA endorsing Chi in his bid against Hakeem Jeffries. Zoran was asked about this recently. This was before he went to that meeting, by the way, but about why he is backing Hakeem Jeffries in this primary fight.

37:15Zohran Mamdani:This is F3. Let's go ahead and listen to that.

37:17Saagar Enjeti:Let me talk about Hakeem Jeffries for a moment, who now may face a challenge from Chi Osei, who is a member of the DSA. You said that there are local issues that Mr. Osei should be focused on, maybe should remain a councilman. Are you saying he should not run against Hakeem Jeffries? No, I'm saying that I think the focus should be right here on New York City. I respect the work that Councilmember Osei has done. What does that mean?

37:35Krystal Ball:Should he not run?

37:36Saagar Enjeti:I think that right now is not the time to be engaging in that kind of a primary. I think the focus should be on delivering on this affordability agenda.

37:42Zohran Mamdani:So tell us about this perspective. Tell us about this meeting last night. Like, what the hell is going on here?

37:49Krystal Ball:I do think Zoran was being a little mealy-mouthed there. I'll speak in a way where I'll speak having spoken to members of DSA myself and getting a sense of how they feel, long-time members. It's that they don't feel Chiyose is a genuine member of DSA to start with. He only joined a few months ago. So there's a feeling that he's somewhat, I don't want to use the word usurper, but he's someone who's glomming on very recently. You look at also the primary. Chiyose was a bit of a late backer. He actually co-endorsed with Brad Lander. You know, he hopped on the bandwagon. That's fine. I think talking to the members I've talked to, the way they look at it is they want to focus on the state legislature or potentially on Dan Goldman.

38:37Krystal Ball:and they feel like Hakeem Jeffries, while they would love to get rid of him, it's not really a winnable fight. It's a district where Zoran did well in the primary, but not – he won that district, but not overwhelmingly. So there's a real strategic question of can you defeat Hakeem Jeffries, who is not scandal-scarred, right, who does not have really, you know, true weaknesses beyond the politics themselves in a pretty diverse district or he has support for middle-class and working-class Black voters. Can you go in and beat him? There is a faction of DSA that says, yes, we have to do this. Hakeem Jeffries is against us.

39:14Krystal Ball:There's another faction that feels this isn't that strategic. And I do think Zoran is, you know, using his early clout to try to steer the DSA more strategically. I do expect him to back other insurgents, other primary challengers. You know, the reality is he's going to be mayor of New York. Hakeem Jeffries could be Speaker of the House in 2027, sitting there in Brooklyn. And while Hakeem Jeffries doesn't share your politics, he's got to represent the entire Democratic caucus. And, you know, like a Pelosi, he can be pushed in different directions. So I get it. I get where he's coming from. I don't think he's messaging it publicly the best way, I would say, for Zoran.

39:51Krystal Ball:But I think there's logic to dissuading Osei, or at least saying you can run, but the DSA is not going to support you. You run, let's see what happens. And the reality is he probably won't win. and Zoran needs Jeffries. He needs at least the Democratic leadership. He's in a strong but also vulnerable position as a 34-year-old new mayor. So I understand where he's coming from, but I also see why a lot on the left would question it that way.

40:22Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, these are the realities of power.

40:23Zohran Mamdani:Yeah, I mean, I also, I understand his logic. However, I disagree with it strategically because, you know, I think we've seen some similar calculus from AOC where it's like, okay, I'm here. I'm going to play the inside game. And I don't think that that has really borne fruit. So from my perspective, you have to use the power that you have to effectively sort of like coerce and bully these people because they will stab you in the back the moment that they have the chance. Like Hakeem Jeffries did not endorse Zoran until what, like two days before the primary. It was incredibly passive aggressive.

40:56Zohran Mamdani:And so even if you think that Chiyose can't win and we could go and put F4 up on the screen. Michael Lang did a bunch of analysis backing up what you're saying, that this would be very, very difficult in order to be able to actually pull up the upset here. But even if you think that he can't win, the fact of him being in the primary pushes Jeffries. I mean, we see the way Hochul has had to like sort of bend and adjust and accommodate Zoran's politics for herself in order to make sure that Antonio Delgado doesn't have a shot at taking her out in a primary. So I feel like that primary is really valuable, even if you think it's a long shot to be able to win.

41:37Krystal Ball:Yeah, I think that's a fair point. I think it's two schools of thought, right? There's the school I just gave, which is sort of maybe the more moderate DSA members plus Zoran have. You know, you're giving the view that it's kind of the in a way that Trump approached the Republican Party, which has largely been successful for Trump. I mean, leftists can only dream of dominating the Democratic Party the way MAGA still holds total sway over Republicans. So it's a fair counterargument. I think I see it that if you run Osei, you can really pressure Jeffries. My sense is there's just some skepticism of Osei himself within DSA.

42:20Krystal Ball:It almost may even come down to that, that if Chi Osei were, as they say, cadre DSA, where he's someone who, like Zoran or other members who've been a part of it for many years, they feel more enthusiastic about him. I think there's a feeling that he's a bit of a, you know, he's coming to the party very late, doesn't really share the values of the organization. He wants the endorsement because he wants to run and he wants the attention. But I think you're also right in that Osei could be a valuable piece of leverage over someone like Jeffries and force him to the left. And there's no doubt politicians respond to power.

42:56Krystal Ball:That is true.

42:56Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, I'm also curious. You know, Ross, I saw a report that Zoran was kind of dealing with some of the anti-Zionists within DSA. I'm just curious, you know, how that's manifesting in terms of staffing. Like, what does the current selection process? This is when, you know, the nitty gritty gets real. The transition team, the staffers, who's coming into the administration? What's that looking like right now?

43:19Krystal Ball:So, so far you've seen a mix. You've seen him reappoint Jessica Tish, who was appointed by Eric Adams and is a, at best, a political moderate. You know, she's certainly a Zionist. She's a billionaire. And she's very well liked by the business community. So there you have a, you know, concession, capitulation, whatever you want to call it, to moderates in the business faction. At the same time, he's appointed as his chief of staff, L. Biscard Church, who is his age. who is his old assembly chief of staff, who is in every way cadre DSA. She's a believer. He's appointed a first mayor in Dean Fulhan, who splits the difference, I would say, between Tisch and El, where Fulhan, he was de Blasio's first deputy mayor.

44:08Krystal Ball:He also worked for the assembly speaker, Shelley Silver, for many years. He's very much a man of institutions. He's in the 70s. He has a lot of experience with budgets, but he also has a progressive streak. He's sort of more center left. So I think so far you're seeing a real mix. I think you're going to see members of DSA elevated in this administration that is inarguable. At the same time, you're going to see an administration, I do believe, of experience and competence. And that is very important for a young mayor like him especially. It's coming off of four years of chaos and corruption with Eric Adams.

44:42Krystal Ball:You've got to run clean, good government. The left has had very few chances at executive rule, executive power. So all eyes across the country and world will be on him. So it's very important to avoid scandal, to not get tripped up, to not be self-defeating like Brandon Johnson in Chicago, for example. So I do expect a pretty strong and competent administration. And so far, you've seen in his appointments a real ideological mix. The left, I'd say sort of center left and on the right with Jessica Tish.

45:12Zohran Mamdani:Yeah, I mean, the stakes, I'm sure he feels the stakes are very high for his political project, because, you know, if when it's Eric Adams and he's, you know, center right effectively and he sucks and he fails, no one says, oh, well, centrist can't govern. But when it's the left, if they fail, and especially with Zoran being so high profile, then it's, oh, see, you can't trust these people with power. And this is an indictment of the entire political project. So, you know, the stakes are I think he's right to perceive the stakes here are incredibly high, not just obviously for the city of New York, but more broadly for DSA and DSA aligned candidates.

45:48Zohran Mamdani:I wanted to ask you more broadly about what's going on in New York City. There's so many primary challengers that are jumping in. I'm having trouble keeping track. Richie Torres has drawn a couple of primary challengers. You have the primary challenge of Hakeem Jeffries. I saw Esbayet is expected to get a challenger. I think Grace Meng, is that her name, has also gotten a challenger. Very likely Brad Lander is going to get in against Dan Goldman, and I think Goldman will get crushed. You can tell me if you think that I'm wrong about that. I may be missing others, but, you know, what do you make of this?

46:16Zohran Mamdani:This has got to be a Zoran effect, in New York specifically. And we're seeing echoes of this truly across the country in so many races. Again, I can't keep track of the number of people that I'm seeing who have very similar politics who are coming out of nowhere to jump into primaries and challenge power. So what do you see there in New York in terms of the energy on the ground?

46:37Krystal Ball:There's no doubt it's a Zara effect. It actually reminds me of the fallout from AOC in 2018, where you saw in 2020 a lot of primary challengers. And you saw even the state legislative primary candidates in 2018 get a real boost from AOC's victory over Corrales. So I think that those currents are back. The challenges are a mix. I think the most viable by far is the one against Dan Goldman. I believe if Lander gets in, he will win. there is some consternation that there could be vote splitting. If also there's a DSA city council member, Alexa Aviles, who is interested in running, they'll probably, my guess is Lander and her will come to an arrangement and one of them will run because there is no rank choice voting for congressional primaries.

47:25Krystal Ball:There will be votes wasted if you have two insurgent challengers. So, you know, Goldman just sitting on a district that is much more progressive than he is. That's the reality of it. And I do expect Lander in the end to be his sole prominent challenger, and I do expect him to win. The others are more interesting. I mean, Richie Torres, in one hand, certainly to the right of his district. His challenger, Michael Blake, has run for office many times, including a run for mayor, including a runner for that district. He's largely been unsuccessful. So the question is, can he find momentum and win? Grace Meng is interesting out in central Queens.

48:01Krystal Ball:Her district's actually fairly moderate, so I'm not convinced she can get beaten from the left. I don't know much about the Espiotre challenger yet. That's an interesting one, too. I mean, he's fairly strong in his district, and he endorsed Soran in the general, so hard to see him taking too much heat from the left. I think the key race will be the Dan Goldman race. I think that one, there is a real pickup opportunity for progressives. I do think it will happen. The rest are trickier and more long shot. That's how I would describe them right now.

48:31Saagar Enjeti:But you missed George Conway. Yeah, well, that's New York 12.

48:37Zohran Mamdani:That's an open one. So that's not a challenging and exciting.

48:42Krystal Ball:Everyone is running, including Jack Schlossberg. And yeah, it's going to be a real mess.

48:46Saagar Enjeti:We've got a Kennedy. We've got George Conway. It's just, you know, it's going to be a great race.

48:51Zohran Mamdani:Well, we actually pulled Cam Caskey, who's trying to lock down sort of like the left or progressive lane in that primary, who just launched young guy activists. Let's go ahead and take a listen. This is F6. Let's go ahead and look at his launch video.

49:05Saagar Enjeti:My name is Cameron Caskey, and I'm running for Congress because there's no real path forward for most Americans. You and your family are working all week just to spend most of your paycheck on rent and health care. Meanwhile, the richest people in our country are telling us that we can't afford real solutions like social housing and Medicare for all. No, we can only afford genocide, Palantir mass surveillance contracts, and ICE thugs. I'm running because we need people in Congress who are going to do something about it and work on laws that help all Americans. Isn't that crazy and radical? Turns out we actually can build a society where we're feeding children instead of tearing them away for their families.

49:40Saagar Enjeti:where streets are lined with federal housing and small businesses instead of the National Guard.

49:46Zohran Mamdani:So what do you make specifically of Cameron Kasky, but this broader, I mean, it's, I don't know how many candidates have jumped, like eight different candidates have jumped in this race. And I think it is more, it's Upper West Side and Upper East Side. Am I correct about that with Jerry Nadler?

49:59Krystal Ball:Plus Midtown, plus some of the village, a little bit of downtown. Yeah, it's kind of like a rectangle in the middle of Manhattan.

50:05Zohran Mamdani:More moderate district. Upper East Side went for Cuomo, for example. I think Zoran did win the Upper West Side, if memory serves.

50:11Krystal Ball:Yeah, he narrowly won it in the general.

50:13Zohran Mamdani:But in any case, I mean, Kasky's bet seems to be that these other people are going to split the more moderate vote, and I can just carve out, maybe I can win with like 30 % of the vote of more progressives in the district. How is this shaking out?

50:26Krystal Ball:Look, it's not a bad bet. I think the frontrunner right now for me is the assemblyman from the Upper West Side, Michael Lasher, who's grown up in the district, been there his whole life, and he's got the Nadler endorsement effectively. And he's very much center-left. He's pro-Israel. He's progressive on most other policy. But yeah, it would be more of a conventional center-left Democrat. There's an Assemblyman Alex Boris on the Upper East Side. There's Eric Botcher, the city councilman down in the village. Kasky, Jack Schlossberg, of course, the JFK grandson is running and many others. So yeah, it's going to be a split field.

51:05Zohran Mamdani:George Conway is trying to move back.

51:06Krystal Ball:I'm all the way with Conway, personally. I think Caskey's challenge will be like Conway's is lack of roots in the district. I mean, New York, you can come from elsewhere and succeed. Bill de Blasio is not from New York City. Michael Bloomberg was not from New York City. But the key is you can come from anywhere, but then you've got to establish yourself in New York City and kind of spend time building yourself up in New York City. So Caskey, he's 25. He obviously is from Florida. I don't know if he's going to have the roots in that district to succeed. Now, we'll see in a split field, you never know.

51:44Krystal Ball:I think it's a fair point if you've got 10 candidates and one candidate's coming in with 32 percent and they win, you become the congressman. My expectation for now is Lasher is the favorite with the endorsement of Nadler, with the West side being so vote rich. And that is the highest turnout part of the district. My guess is he's the favorite, but look, they almost try to tear him down, and that creates no big for someone else. So you truly never know in these kinds of races. Yeah.

52:12Zohran Mamdani:Democracy. Gotta love it. There you go.

52:14Saagar Enjeti:Thanks for joining us, man. Appreciate it.

52:15Zohran Mamdani:Thanks, Ross. Great to see you.

52:16Saagar Enjeti:Having me. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. We will see you all later, and there'll be a Friday show tomorrow.

52:37Saagar Enjeti:This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

52:51Krystal Ball:The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

53:00Saagar Enjeti:Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

53:30Krystal Ball:This show is for you.

53:31Saagar Enjeti:Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? I've just been made to fit. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe? Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to Doubt, The Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

54:07Zohran Mamdani:This is an iHeart Podcast.

54:10Saagar Enjeti:Guaranteed human.