2/10/26: Trump Demands High House Prices, Olympic Athletes Trash USA, AI Medical Device Backlash, Trump Whitewashes Sudan Complicity

24:18I think that as a country, we need to focus on respecting everybody's rights and making sure that we're treating our citizens as well as anybody with love and respect. and I hope that when people look at athletes competing in the Olympics, they realize that that's the America that we're trying to represent. The parents being immigrants, this one definitely hits pretty close to home and I think in moments like these, it is really important for us to unite and kind of stand up for one another, for all that's going on and I think that I'm really proud to represent the United States. Um, it's the U.S.

24:58has given my family and I so much opportunity, but I also think that I, we are allowed to voice our opinions on what's going on. All right. So relatively, in my opinion, mild comments in any case, cue the total freak out from everybody from the president on down on the, uh, on the right. We've got D3 can put Trump's truth social up on the screen here in response, I think specifically to Hunter Hess. He says, U.S. Olympics gear. Hunter Hess, a real loser. Says he doesn't represent his country in the current Winter Olympics. If that's the case, he shouldn't have tried out for the team. It's too bad he's on it.

25:33Very hard to root for someone like this. Make America great again. Your Trump voice is getting better. Is it? It's getting good. My Trump voice is an impression of Kyle doing his impression of Trump. So it's not great. But, you know, I feel like when you're reading his words, you kind of got to give it a little bit of the Trumpy favor. I agree. I like it. In any case, Senator Rick Scott weighed in. This is D-Zero guys with a similar sentiment saying they should be pulled from the team. How dare they speak against the great U.S. of A. Let's listen to that one. Any person who goes to the Olympics to represent the United States and then says they don't want to represent the United States should be immediately stripped of the Olympic uniform.

26:13Immediately stripped of the Olympic uniform. And I mean, my commentary on this is very obvious, Sagar. Like, one of the great things about the United States of America is you have free speech. And just because you criticize the government, it's giving me, like, war on terror flashbacks where, like, if you don't love what George W. Bush is, you hate our troops, you hate America, blah, blah, blah, you're not a patriot. Like, you're supposed to be able to be critical of the government. That's fine. That doesn't mean you hate the country and you don't want to represent the country. And then the other piece that, like, I don't know, is sort of driving me crazy is who is stripping?

26:45It's not like the government even supports them to go to the Olympics. I'll get to that. Right. So like who is stripping them of their ability to be there and compete? The whole thing is absurd. It's a total freak out. It reminds me of the Super Bowl freak out, like complete snowflake, fake outrage behavior here from the right. You know, it's interesting. I feel very similarly and I feel actually very similar to the Super Bowl halftime show. It reminds me of a conversation which I once had. I won't name the government, but I once had a very interesting dinner with a very senior government official of a foreign country.

27:17And this country was pursuing a lot of censorship against critics. And they were asking me what I thought about it. And I said, well, with great respect, great countries don't care what other people have to say. Great countries are confident in who they are enough to the point where, is anyone shocked that an upper middle class white skier is a lib, like that's the least shocking thing of literally of all time. That would be like if I told you your average NFL athlete is like a mid-tier Charlie Kirk conservative. Well, the white ones anyway. Well, yeah, a lot of the white ones. Well, actually, a lot of the black ones too, actually kind of shockingly enough.

27:57But anyway, my point is just like, wow, what a absolute shocker. So I don't know. I don't know why this really does, I don't know why this really does not offend me at all. I mean, I get where some people are coming from. There is a liberal tendency to pretend like you're James Baldwin and be like, I love my country so much, I'm going to criticize it. It's like, no, you actually hate a very large part of the entire country and don't really believe in many of the founding ethos or believe in its greatness. So I understand where many right-wingers are coming from because there is a general tendency of a lot of left-wingers who hold that belief, I think, pretty structurally and fundamentally.

28:34I'll give you an example. Yeah. because this is also tied into the press. The press loves this shit. By the way, a lot of the athletes have even complained. They're like, we didn't come here to talk about this. You asked us and we're asking, we're giving you our opinion. Does the press care? For example, Eileen Gu, who is an American born who's competing for the Chinese. She's a traitor, in my opinion. Nobody asked her shit about what's going on with Jimmy Lai in Hong Kong because you know why? She would literally lose. Like their government actually does control what they do. That's why I think we're better than the Chinese system.

29:06But there is a structural disadvantage with our press where nobody apparently asked that. Everyone's like, oh, hey, you're literally a traitor to the United States and you're competing for a foreign government. And even though you've benefited and are funded like millions of dollars here and we're all just OK with that. So that's like a press criticism and not of the athletes themselves. There's also the Olympics criticism here where, again, I actually was not even aware of this. So can we put up this? D6. Where is it? D6. I didn't even know that we don't fund our Olympics. So then a lot of this is actually moot.

29:37Apparently, again, I'm ignorant. It is fully funded by corporate sponsorships and private donations. So IRL, then yeah, they literally can say whatever they want. Okay, and apparently I was the only fool who was under the belief that the government had some role in Team USA. I guess we just adopt Team USA and it becomes its own thing. So obviously we should have no say over what these athletes are saying, if especially if they're, um, especially if they're not funded or supported by the taxpayer in any way. Again, I'm, I'm not going to sit here and say, let's just say, for example, cause there's been a lot of discourse.

30:12They're like, Oh, they say that they're just upset for love. And everybody knows what they're talking about. If in June of 2020, I said, all lives matter. You know exactly what I'm saying. Yeah. So like there's, let's not pretend that there isn't subtext there. Oh, how could you disagree with that? You know, exactly what the fuck I'm trying to say. So like, let's not bullshit about the actual political. There's definitely a political context. That's what this is about. Although it is, I mean, the things they're saying are, it's funny, always funny to me how athletes and celebrities are judged by this different standard where they'll say like the most mild thing possible.

30:48And it's like, oh my God. Right. And that's sort of how I feel about this. They're like, yeah, I'm not really that comfortable with everything that's going on. And, you know, I think we should have compassion for each other. And I was like, oh, this is crazy that they said this. You know what that means. Of course. Just like all lives matter, you know what I mean. Yeah, but Sagar, I get what you're saying. There's obviously political context there. I mean, that's what we talked about with Bad Bunny too, right? Sure. His performance was obviously political. There's no doubt that it's political.

31:16The other thing that I would say, though, to your point about like, oh, you know, it's no surprise that upper middle class or upper class white libs are critical of the Trump administration. That's true. But I think what is noteworthy is, number one, just the sheer number of them who are saying anything. They're asked about it, Crystal. I know, but still, this is these— The press wants them to say it. I've watched so many of these. Like, you know, the Australian, but none of the Americans there said shit about shit, right? So the number of them that are saying anything to me is noteworthy. Number two, look, we've—look at the polling.

31:50Like, it's not just white libs. True. Who feel this way? I mean, this is an overwhelming sentiment among Americans, you know, outside of like hardcore MAGA. There's a lot. And even there, New York Times just did a big, you know, focus group with a bunch of the Trump voters that they've stayed in touch with. And a number of them are like, I'm not really comfortable. I feel like there's an assault on the Second Amendment going on. I feel like there's an assault on the First Amendment going on. I support the idea of getting immigrants out, but I'm not sure how things are going. So, you know, I also don't want to pretend like, yes, these are mostly like white upper class or upper middle class people who are saying this, but their sentiment is also very reflective of what's going on in the country.

32:30And I think that's part of why we can put some of the D4, we can put some of the different reactions up on the screen here just to get a sense. We've got Megyn Kelly, another turncoat to root against. We've got, I think we've got Byron Donalds here. You chose to wear our flag. You chose to represent our country. If that's too hard for you, go home. blah, blah, blah. You can continue rolling them here. But, you know, I think part of why you are having this like meltdown freak out moment with regard to the Super Bowl and with regard to this is because there is a sense of sort of fragility where if you felt very confident, like Magus got the vibes and we're winning and everybody loves us, et cetera, it'd be easier just to kind of brush this off.

33:11That was my point. Yeah, whatever. Structural weakness is that if you're. Yes, that's right. If you're so butthurt about some skier who says I'm semi-conflicted about wearing the flag, you're beyond loss, OK? You have no idea what you are in for. And I mean that's kind of the way I'm operating from is that you can see very clearly that there is a massive political backlash and that this kind of behavior is that of a losing of a movement. And not only losing movement, culturally, which is somehow downward after a year ago being in a generally pretty – At its heights, yeah. Like at its heights, literally, right?

33:49And it was like a total cultural revolution. Fumbling the bag on that one has got to be well studied in the history books. But that was my point is when I talked to that foreign official and they were defending – they said, you don't understand our politics. And I said, no, I do. I just think you're acting like a little bitch basically. I was like, I think that you're very – I said you're not confident in who you are and your lack of confidence is coming across to me and to the entire world as so fragile that you can't allow any criticism. That's basically how I feel about these people. I don't need to agree with my athletes about anything.

34:25I think it's great. Every single one of them wins a gold medal. Is that a nuanced view, right? At the same time, I do recognize that there is a very annoying tendency of the modern left to where only patriotism is when you are critical of it, is that everything must be couched in nuance, is that – and while, look, blind patriotism has plenty of its own problems. Again, just like with All Lives Matter, everyone knows exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. A 1619 Project, DEI and all this is a core basis about all this. I don't even know that you like disagree with the sentiments they're expressing.

35:03What do you mean? Do you? What? Do you disagree with anything they say though? Well, if you were to ask me what makes me not proud to be an American, sure, the ICE stuff would definitely be part of it. I would talk to, let's say, much more of the structural degenerate parts of our society, right? So I could give you a great diatribe about what I'm not proud to be an American. I'm just saying like you don't even really disagree with what they're saying. I mean, and that is a – What do you mean? I mean, do you disagree with any of the sentiments that they're expressing here? It depends. Yeah, and they're pretty like mild, like, ah, I'm not sure about what's going on.

35:32Actually, I forgot to get to that one because the idea that this is some horrible time for gay people is literally bullshit, okay? So everybody knows what she's trying to say, which is about trans people and in particular trans children. And no, I'm not going to cry tears because nine-year-olds can't get puberty blockers. So let's be very clear about what that one is saying. So that was the only one, as you can tell, that's the only one that actually made me mad because it's ridiculous. It's completely ridiculous that gay people are being hunted in the streets. No, but there's, I mean, they've definitely been made a target.

36:00Gay people have been made a target. Yeah, both rhetorically and through legislation. There's certainly been a scapegoating of trans people in particular. But I said gay people. You're moving the goalposts. There's plenty of an attempt to roll back. You actually brought up trans people, whatever. Yes, because that's what it's actually all about. Gay marriage. There's been a question by the Supreme Court is going to overturn things. No, it's not. In any case, in any case, with the ICE commentary, I don't even think you disagree with their sentiment. But my, you know, my bottom line here is for all the people who are like, I'm going to root against them because I disagree with their political take.

36:38Like, to me, that feels un-American. OK. Of like that you have to agree with every political sentiment that is expressed with someone to root for Team USA. Let's test the moral purity. Let's say that there are many liberal Chiefs fans who root against Harrison Butker, who is massively pro-life, who stands with Trump. Every time that guy misses a field goal, the libs cheer across. But that's different than Team USA. No, I agree with you. But that's like, you know, there are not to cheer for that team. Sure. But there are even Chiefs fans I have seen who are like, fuck Harrison Butker because of his political beliefs.

37:11Again, is there going to be any real consistency on behalf of the if we had a deeply conservative Olympian who was like, I love Trump and I support ICE. Everyone will be rooting against him. Let's not lie, all right? Let's be very honest about how everybody would also react. So I'm not going to grant some special exception of how fantastic liberals— But I would not say that that person should be like— They shouldn't be allowed to compete and they should be stripped of their Olympic status. In the Obama era, you might be wrong. Now, currently, I would hope that maybe that that would hold up. Again, it's unfalsifiable.

37:45I don't really know. But it's one of those where when I look at this entire thing, I see weakness from Bad Bunny to the way that they have reacted. By the way, that's the other problem. It's not like Hunter Hess was like, he didn't say anything all that provocative. Like you just said, he was trying to talk, frankly, in a very like mealy-mouthed way and trying to like give a bar. He was like, well, I feel a little uncomfortable. Yeah, acknowledge reality. If you're going to have a full-blown meltdown over something like that, like you look like a little bitch. And like that's generally how – look, I see deep weakness in the way that people have reacted to this.

38:24I also think that any purity test for athletes – like yeah, I can sit here and criticize Eileen Gu, but I mean what's so different? If our lawmakers – like if she can't say anything about Jimmy Lai and we – and our athletes are going to say something and then lawmakers all the way up to the top are saying they should be removed. I mean what – we don't have a lot of standards like here to be sitting on. In fact, that's one of the often – one of the conservative critiques is you don't go on foreign soil to trash America and that America is held to a higher standard, which it obviously is. No one is asking Iranian Olympics how they feel about the protests.

38:59If they say something, they'll be killed. You know, if you ask somebody from if you ask somebody from a lot of these authoritarian countries how they feel and they express a dissonant view. Remember North Korea and their whole soccer team situation? Like they had a real problem if you get embarrassed on the world stage. So there are real examples where it's actually disastrous to speak out. If anything, it's kind of a privilege of the United States where the worst you're going to get is a bad tweet from the government. They can't really do anything. Yeah. Well, I mean, they did like arrest people for writing op eds.

39:28but I don't think that these, I don't think these Olympians are in danger of, I don't think they're in danger of being imprisoned. Hunter Hess is not gonna be jailed, killed. He'll probably make a shitload of money off of sponsorships and he'll be fine. And most of the, you know, I mean, literally we are a country which allows traders to go and represent, compete for a foreign government. And then we still allow her back in and massively enrich her. Apparently everybody's like fine with that. I think that's bullshit by the way. Here's the other thing is, Trump is extremely critical of the US all the time.

39:57I am too. Extremely critical of the U.S. all the time and on foreign soil and all of those things. And it's part of the reason why he was appealing to begin with, because he was willing to say, like, hey, things are not, you know, American carnage, like things are not going well here. So in any case, that's it. Again, there's one last piece to mention here, which is that the U.S. made the decision to send some ice agents to the Winter Olympics, D5, to supposedly provide security. Like, I don't know why you would choose ice agents. That's not really what they're meant to be doing. but there have been huge protests in Italy over the presence of these ICE agents.

40:33There have been, you know, the protests aren't just about that, but that's part of what is fueling that. So, you know, the zone, I think in this context, to your point, Sagar, political game being played here from the Trump administration. Can I say something? Italians, worry about your own fucking country. Like, I'm sorry. Like, this annoys the crap out of me. Yeah, but now this is in their country. But the globalization of our politics is so annoying. My wife is abroad right now. The amount that these foreigners pay it. I totally disagree with this. These people pay attention to Texas special elections.

41:04Sagar, we have so much impact on the whole world. Like, of course, of course people around the globe care about what happens here. I don't want to listen to these fucking intelligence. You guys are literally, your GDP is nothing. You make no real products. I mean, but again, think of the way you have much bigger problems. You have tariffing this country and threatening Greenland and whatever. Like, of course they have to pay attention to our politics. We give them no other choice. But, you know, protesting around ICE, like, Jesus Christ, like, you people have so many bigger structural issues. If anything, the reason you're in that position is because you're so obsessed with us as the global superpower.

41:38Try and become one yourself. Look, I think it is well within their rights to protest. I didn't say that it's not their rights. From secret police coming to your country and, you know, unaccountable. There's no question of rights. No impunity, you know, total impunity, secret police coming to your country. Which, by the way, resembles what? What does that police force resemble? Oh, right. European police forces, which again, no due process, no rights, no first amendment. Shut the fuck up. If you live over there, you people literally basically already live in the exact same system and they're trying to criticize us.

42:08So I'm sorry. Like I'm not going to, some great Italian, I don't want any, no, they're not. They live, they love it. They love their censorship regime. These, these are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. So that's the one thing I will stand for my countrymen who criticize us. I will not stand for these fucking Europeans. When you send ICE to a foreign country, the people in that country are allowed to protest. Sure they can protest, but you basically live under the same occupied regime except you have no due process, no system to actually do anything about that. Most of you are compliant. Are they murdering Italians in the streets who protest?

42:44Listen, they once did, all right? Where do you think it all originated? Yeah, but in the modern era, do we have the level of brutality? They have a huge like to stand on. From the Italian police, as we do from my side. Do you really think they have a moral like to stand on? In terms of, we're talking about comparing our - We're talking full history? Yeah, we should. Okay, they have to be - Who invented imperialism? They have to constantly atone for the sins of their grandfathers? Okay, all right, then let's talk about slavery, Sopr. Fine, I've told you, I've been toying with the idea of generational guilt.

43:14Your 1619 pill now? It's not that I've been toying with the idea of collective guilt in an interesting way, which I'm sure people will all - Let's get Nicole Hannah-Jones on for a conversation with you. Let's get Ibram X. Kendi on to talk with you about that. I would like to see that overlap. I see it differently. And then that's the whole point. But that's a different conversation.

43:40What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins. And if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul. a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you. Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated.

44:17some guests have answers most are still figuring it out if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

44:37I'm Bowen Yang and I'm Matt Rogers during this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games We've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Boyd. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Boyd. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969.

45:25In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history, Martin Luther King Sr. and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

46:12Let's find some common ground on hatred of our AI overlords here. Horrifying story from Reuters and kudos to them for doing the digging into this. So they say as AI enters the operating room, reports arise of botched surgeries and misidentified body parts. So the background here is that obviously you have AI now is the new hot way to grow your company, including medical device companies. So you have companies trying to push these devices into the market. You have an FDA that has been degraded drastically by Doge. And patients now basically being used as guinea pigs. So let me give you some of the specifics here from this article.

46:58Let's put this first piece up on the screen. They found that at least 10 people were injured between late 2021 and November 2025, according to reports. most allegedly involved errors in which the true dye navigation system misinformed surgeons about the location of their instruments while they were using them inside patients' heads during operations. Obviously, the company denies any wrongdoing. Put the next one up on the screen here. They say cerebrospinal fluid reportedly leaked from one patient's nose. In another reported case, a surgeon mistakenly punctured the base of a patient's skull. In two other cases, patients each allegedly suffered strokes after a major artery was accidentally injured.

47:45But the next one up on the screen, the FDA has received reports involving dozens of other AI-enhanced devices, including a heart monitor said to have overlooked abnormal heartbeats and an ultrasound device that allegedly misidentified fetal body parts. So in one of the examples that they identified here, first of all, the doctor had a consulting contract with the company that makes this device. So you inherently have questions about a conflict of interest in the doctor choosing to use this technology to start with. What they talk about here is the patient was being treated for chronic sinusitis.

48:20The procedure involves, it's a relatively non-invasive procedure, should be sort of cut and dry, relatively straightforward. They inflate a balloon inside your sinus cavity to create additional space. But the allegation is that this technology, because it did not properly inform the surgeon where their medical instruments were, that they accidentally nicked an artery that goes to the brain. This caused a stroke. And there were a couple strokes that they identified because that they're attributing to this technology. Again, the company denies that it is ultimately their fault. But to me, Sagar, the bigger story is we have put E5 up on the screen.

49:02We had this Doge assault on the FDA. I remember talking about this at the time. About 15 of the 40 AI scientists in the special unit that had been spun up in the FDA to evaluate exactly these types of devices were laid off or opted to go. Another unit that crafted policy on devices using AI, the Digital Health Center of Excellence, lost about a third of its staff around 30. So they are overwhelmed. And what the device makers try to do in order to avoid a lengthy evaluation process is they'll say, oh, this is just like this other device that's already on the market. We've just updated it. But the update may be completely changing the way the device works and implementing AI, whereas the device previously did not have that.

49:46And so a lot of these devices are sort of getting approved with relatively minimal scrutiny. And all of this is being done at an FDA that's completely overwhelmed. Yeah, it's not only regulatory, it is really just like the runaway nature of the way that these people are rolling stuff out. And you pointed out these concrete ones, but just at a very basic level, remember, the promise here was that they we're going to cure cancer. That was the promise. And by the way, if anyone's watching the pit, there's a good, uh, there's a good plot line currently of a doctor who's pushing generative AI, which immediately runs into problems in the actual ER.

50:18Uh, I thought it was a good, like artistic representation of some of the way that this is currently already happening in medicine. Let's, um, put E6 up here on the screen. I love this piece, which was this, this, uh, author, let chat GPT analyze a decade of Apple watch data, then called his doctor. He said,

51:07cardiovascular fitness test to prove that the artificial intelligence is wrong. I then showed the results to a renowned cardiologist and he said, quote, it's baseless. This is not ready for any medical advice, period. So there you go. In terms of what our initial diagnoses and all of that are. Well, and he would keep asking it. He'd go back and be like, okay, evaluate it now. And they'd be like, you get a B evaluated now. You get a D evaluated now you get an F. Like it was same data, asking the exact same question, getting everything from a B to an F, I believe, was the range. I don't know. I just think we need stuff to be banned.

51:44Like, I really have come around to a much more Luddite view where any image generation, ban it. What social benefit could come from that? Whenever it comes to medicine, you got to prove it before you can use it. Like, that's one of those where I'm going to treat it like a drug trial, which I know that everybody, you know, there's pharma and all this has criticizes it. And fine. I agree. If anything, it's probably too corrupt and not more, you know, available for scrutiny. But I think it's got to be drug trial related where unless you can, until you can prove with explicit patient consent and everything that over a long period that you've worked out all the kinks that you've, you know, made and redone developments and triple quadruple tested it, it should not be able to be used in the format that we're like currently looking at because you know you're playing with people's lives here and i'm somewhat sympathetic like you know there's a ton of human error too i recently saw this thing there's a new study that when cardiologist conferences are happening and you go into the hospital that you are more likely to live and the reason why is that the cardiologists are the the people who are like approaching you when the car the senior cardiologist is out of town is because they do things kind of the old way and that the newer doctors will do something It's either in the new way or they won't apply, like, the stuff that's more routine.

52:57And I was like, oh, wow. Well, that's a real argument for disruption and all that in medical education. And that definitely is something that's, like, a product of human error. But I don't think that this is the answer. You need a more rigorous culture or something. I miss when I was just enthusiastic about new technological development. Like, I miss that. And the reason that I don't have that now is not because I don't think that the AI development has promise. I do think it has potential and promise to improve people's lives. It's because we don't have a political system that is going to do anything other than, like, you know, use it to further immisery to extract profits and, you know, funnel power and wealth to the top.

53:35So for me, it's there. Obviously, there's serious technological issues and questions, et cetera, that we talk about on this show. But the bigger problem for me is a political problem. It's an ownership problem as well, because if you have this technology, which is if it's nearly as powerful as they're projecting in the hands of a few, that is inherently an issue. But to that point of the political problem, put the E7B up on the screen. I mean, this is just like Lotus Health. This company has just raised thirty five million dollars for an A.I. doctor that will see patients for free. And the way they're pitching this is basically like, look, you can enter your information.

54:16Our AI doctor will diagnose you. It can write prescriptions, et cetera. And at the very end, we're going to have a real doctor come in and just make sure that it's okay. So it's not completely free of doctors. And then you ask, okay, well, what's the profit model? And, of course, what they're looking at, right now they're saying, oh, we're not going to worry about that. But what they're looking at is paid sponsorships. So you're going to be – I mean we already have this system where pharmaceutical, big pharma can average, oh, ask your doctor, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now we're talking about integrating that directly into the medical care that you're receiving from an AI doctor.

54:54And no one would want this if we had a free healthcare like the rest of the developed world. This would not be – a money jay would not be appealing, et cetera. But because we have this screwed up political system, screwed up health care system, you know, I can I can absolutely see that I understand why they're able to raise thirty five million dollars where I can see why this could get traction, because if you have no other alternative, then, yeah, you're going to go to the doctor and watch the pharma ads and, you know, hope that cross your fingers and hope it works out OK. Yeah, I think very, very true.

55:27All right. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Let's get to our guest who's going to talk about Sudan.

55:36What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me, it's where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode, I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff, identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore, loss that changes you, purpose when success isn't enough, peace when your mind won't slow down, faith when it's complicated.

56:14Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to If You Can Hear Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

56:34I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast, in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway. We are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the A-Building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr.

57:15have both been assassinated, and Black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protests broke out on an unprecedented scale. In Atlanta, Georgia, at Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in Black history. Martin Luther King Sr., and a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone. The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago. This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should.

57:58And it will blow your mind. Listen to The A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So as you know, on the show, we've been covering the war in Sudan, which is both a civil war spilling into a regional war. It is a proxy war and is also creating the worst humanitarian crisis on the entire planet. Our next guest has been focused on that aspect in particular. Nathaniel Raymond is the executive director of the Humanitarian Research Lab at Yale School of Public Health. And he joins us now. Welcome, sir. Great to have you. It's good to be here. Thank you.

58:34Yeah, of course. So you're out with this new report. Let's put F2 up on the screen here, guys, about the extensive use of what are called suicide drones. You said you've identified 51 suicide drones loitering munitions at a new launch point. Could you break down the research that you have discovered here and why this is significant to the current state of the war in Sudan? So the war in Sudan is basically a fight between the Sudan Armed Forces, the Army of Sudan, and a paramilitary group called the Rapid Support Forces, which is basically an ethnic militia from the western part of the country in Darfur.

59:11And the United Arab Emirates, according to U.S. intelligence, as reported by the Wall Street Journal, has been arming the rapid support forces, especially with these what's called suicide drones or loitering munitions, which are Shahid-style delta wing, meaning that they look like a V. and you fire them from a launcher, like a slingshot, and they can go between 12 to 1 ,700 kilometers and they blow up on target. And right now, the rapid support forces have been using them to harass civilians, including a World Food Program convoy, a market, and hospitals just in recent days. So where does the United States fit into all this?

59:58Well, that's a heck of a question. The United States has been negotiating as part of what's called the Quad, a supposed humanitarian truce. But the fact of the matter is that neither side has fully agreed to the humanitarian truce. And at this point, there's been a stunning reversal of fortune in the past three weeks, where Sudan Armed Forces, really for the first time since they retook the capital, has broken out of being stuck in what we call a turtle, a siege posture in several cities. And they're now attacking the rapid support forces, meaning that they have no reason to agree to a deal right now when they are beginning to take the advantage.

1:00:43Let's go ahead and put F1 up on the screen. This is in reference to that attack on the World Food Program aid convoy that you were discussing. So we have a statement here from the U.S. embassy in Khartoum saying the U.S. condemns the latest drone attack that targeted a convoy of the World Food Program in North Kordofan, which was transporting food supplies to people suffering from famine and resulted in the killing of one person and the injury of many others. This comes in the wake of an attack that occurred earlier this week in Blue Nile State resulted in the injury of one World Food Program employee.

1:01:14The destruction of food intended for those in need and the killing of humanitarian workers is utterly reprehensible. The Trump administration will never tolerate this destruction of lives or of U.S.-funded aid. We demand accountability and we extend our deepest condolences to all those affected by these unjustified incidents and this horrific war. One thing I note in the statement, and you tell me if I'm reading too much into this, but they don't actually name the RSF here as being the perpetrator of this war crime. And it seems like the language is intentionally vague. Can you talk about why the U.S.

1:01:47is sensitive to naming the party to blame here in this incident? I put a tweet out as soon as I saw that statement, which was copied from Boulos, the special advisor for Africa from the Trump administration. And I said, you wouldn't know it from this tweet that this attack was committed by the Rapid Support Forces. And so we have to put this in context for your audience. In the end of October, after we were monitoring the city of Al-Fashur, which was under siege for two and a half years, we believe between 60 ,000 to 100 ,000 civilians were massacred inside basically a kill box, an earthen wall by the Rapid Support Forces.

1:02:34in an act of genocide, probably the last major killing of the Darfur genocide. And so what you have to understand here is the Rapid Support Forces aren't just bad guys with guns. They are genocide heirs who have been killing civilians en masse, and civilians from the Zagawa, the Fur, and the Masali, which are the indigenous Black African Muslim tribes of the West. And so the fact of the matter is that the United States has made a decision, as has the United Kingdom and Europe, that they've prioritized the diplomatic, economic, and security relationship between the West with the UAE over the lives of these people.

1:03:18If the West wanted to, they could stop this war in about 10 seconds. And that's turning off the spigot of advanced weapons to the rapid support forces from their sponsor, which is the UAE, which is a major defense partner of the United States and of the United Kingdom. Let's put F2 up there on the screen. This was flagged for us, where a new report that you guys put out identifies some 51 suicide drones loitering munitions at a new launch point. Can you just explain the significance of some of these drones and the technology that enables some of this massacre? So to launch a weapon like this, you need to have four things.

1:03:59One, you need the weapon itself, which we can observe the actual munition, which is likely consistent with a sunflower, which is a type of drone manufactured by a Chinese company called Norinco. and there's several similar types, and they're known as Shahid-style or Delta Wing. You need the launcher, the physical slingshot. You need to have a ground control station and satellite uplink. And you also need to have anti-aircraft surface-to-air missiles to protect that installation. We know that they have all of the above. And just to put it in perspective, the Rapid Support Forces, when they were the John Jaweed, about 20 plus years ago had camels, rusty pickup trucks, old infield rifles, and really junky AK-47s.

1:04:58Now they have an air force. And they have an air force that was provided to them, we know from Defense Intelligence Agency and the Intelligence and Research Bureau of State Department, by the UAE, according to the Wall Street Journal. And in that Wall Street Journal article, it confirms U.S. intelligence confirms the finding of our lab that these RSF forces also have advanced Chinese fixed wing drones called CH-95s, which are not present in that image. And so basically in the space of 18 months, they've gone from being in the back of pickup trucks to being able to fire munitions anywhere in Sudan within two to three hours.

1:05:43There was a report from Reuters this morning that I just saw that I wanted to get your reaction to. They confirmed what has been, you know, sort of rumored and, you know, theoried in various intel circles that Ethiopia is hosting a secret camp to train thousands of fighters for the RSF paramilitary group in neighboring Sudan. Reuters reporting has found the latest sign that one of the world's deathliest conflicts is sucking in regional powers from Africa and the Middle East. Can you help us understand the significance of Ethiopia getting directly involved here? Why there are so many fears of this war spiraling into a regional conflict?

1:06:18And what these regional proxy powers, why they have such an interest in what happens in Sudan? Well, there's a lot of questions. I threw a lot at you. Yeah, so I'll do my best here. Yesterday, I reviewed imagery related to that alleged RSF base in Beni Shengel on the Ethiopian side of the border. And I've been in that area before near Asaso. So I know that terrain well. And what you have to understand is that it's thick jungle with a lot of hills. So things don't just pop up there. You have to really want to build something there. And we see not just in the sites that Reuters identified, but we can give you a little bit of new news this morning, is that we think there's additional sites beyond what Reuters identified.

1:07:16And we're working to verify that. That really start to appear mid to late October to early November in that area. And they appear near Ethiopian National Defense Force bases in that area. So the big deal about this is, A, it shows likely that Abe, the prime minister of Ethiopia, is basically siding with RSF. Additionally, what it shows is that the RSF, as we've seen in recent days, has been trying to build basically an eastern front to try to pull the Sudan armed forces off from attacking RSF bases in Darfur and trying to reclaim cities in the west. So they're trying to get SAF to attack towards the east so they can bog them down.

1:08:19Why is this happening? Well, as you said, you know, when people say Sudan is a civil war, I balk at that. It is a fight of regional proxies where the main victim in the battlefield are the lives and bodies of Sudanese civilians. and like the movie Die Hard, okay, what you think is a terrorist action actually is a bank robbery. And so the people who are being robbed of their resources are the Sudanese people. And so really Ethiopia, watch what's happening now with Eritrea. Eritrea, who was sided with SAF, is now threatening action in the north in Tigray. And so this is all part of a regional neighborhood battle by about six to eight countries.

1:09:12Wow. Well, Nathaniel, I thank you so much for joining us this morning. I really thank you for your work on this and keeping the focus on, as you said, as I said, the worst humanitarian crisis unfolding on the planet right now. Could you let people know where they can follow the reports that you're putting out and the information that you're sharing? Yeah, just type Yale, HRL, and Sudan into Google and reports, and it will be the first thing that pops up. All right. Thank you so much. We're really grateful for your time.

1:09:54I'm Bowen Yang. And I'm Nat Rogers. During this season of the Two Guys Five Rings podcast in the lead up to the Milan Cortina 2026 Winter Olympic Games, we've been joined by some of our friends. Hi, Bowen. Hi, Matt. Hey, Elmo. Hey, Matt. Hey, Bowen. Hi, Cookie. Hi. Now, the Winter Olympic Games are underway, and we are in Italy to give you experiences from our hearts to your ears. Listen to Two Guys, Five Rings on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can scroll the headlines all day and still feel empty. I'm Ben Higgins, and If You Can Hear Me is where culture meets the soul.

1:10:35honest conversations about identity loss purpose peace faith and everything in between celebrities thinkers everyday people some have answers most are still figuring it out and if you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story this show is for you listen to if you can hear me on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts 1969 malcolm and martin are gone America is in crisis. And at Morehouse College, the students make their move. These students, including a young Samuel L. Jackson, locked up the members of the Board of Trustees, including Martin Luther King Sr.

1:11:14It's the true story of protest and rebellion in Black American history that you'll never forget. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. Listen to The A-Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.