3/2/26: Americans Reject Iran War, Jeff Sachs Unloads On Netanyahu, Professor Jiang Says US Will Lose

18:25Saagar Enjeti:Bush, who was around 30 % at the height of the war in Iraq, and there was an incredible amount of people who were like, all right, we got to give in. You know, even McCain even, and all of them would criticize Trump on the campaign trail. They've got serious, serious problems.

18:39Jeffrey Sachs:No, I agree with you. I mean, it's an incredible act of hubris to think that you could just -

18:43Saagar Enjeti:That's what I'm saying.

18:44Jeffrey Sachs:That you could just impose your will on the entirety of the American public at basically the barrel of a gun. Even in actual dictatorships, the public still is going to have a say at some point. You're still somewhat constrained by what people are going to tolerate. And yeah, if you are causing a financial collapse, people are struggling to afford basic necessities, you're threatening to take all the jobs away with AI and you're getting us into a disastrous war, you know, I think you're going to be, I think you're going to, people are not going to just go along with you also rigging and stealing the elections.

19:20Jeffrey Sachs:I think they'll have something to say about that. Yeah, no, no.

19:23Saagar Enjeti:Okay, all right. Let's get to Jeffrey Sachs, professor. He's standing by.

19:27Jeffrey Sachs:This is Ashley Akinetti from the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous podcast. iVeam is built for losing weight and moving forward. iVeam is built for feeling your best and seeing real results. iVeam is a medical weight loss program built for you. Their approach is individualized, virtual, integrative medicine. 99.2 % of patients who've completed the iVeam weight loss protocol achieved meaningful change, dropping an average of 45 pounds. iVeam, built for your wellness journey. iVeam, built for real life. When you sign up right now, you can get a one-month free trial. Start your personalized plan in minutes by visiting IVIMHealth.com.

20:16Jeffrey Sachs:That is IVIMHealth.com. Subscription required, medication, labs, and supplements not included. Results based on patients who completed the full IV protocol over 68 weeks. Individual results may vary. Not all patients are eligible. Prescription medication may carry risks and should be used only as directed by your provider. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

20:50Saagar Enjeti:The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.

20:55Jeffrey Sachs:Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

21:15Saagar Enjeti:He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all.

21:23Jeffrey Sachs:If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. What if mind control is real?

21:46Krystal Ball:If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

21:49Jeffrey Sachs:Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

21:53Krystal Ball:When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

21:57Jeffrey Sachs:Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

22:00Krystal Ball:I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

22:03Jeffrey Sachs:Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

22:20Krystal Ball:It's about engineering consciousness.

22:22Jeffrey Sachs:Mind Games is the story of NLP. its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

22:48Saagar Enjeti:Very excited now to be joined by our friend of the show, Professor Jeffrey Sachs. Good to see you, sir. Thank you so much for coming back.

22:54Krystal Ball:Great to be with you.

22:55Saagar Enjeti:I wish it was under better circumstances. We did, of course, want to turn to you for a bigger picture of what this all means. Let's go ahead and start with our first element. Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu saying the quieted part out loud. He says, in bombing Iran, Israel has now the assistance of the United States, my friend, President Donald Trump, and the U.S. military. This coalition of forces allows us to do what I've yearned to do for 40 years. 40 years, it's a dream that the prime minister had, despite all of the alleged pretexts about preemptive attacks, nuclear strikes, ballistic missiles.

23:26Saagar Enjeti:This is something that has been the heart of the Bibi Netanyahu project. I just was wondering if you could react to that and frame your general thoughts around this entire regional war that has now erupted.

23:37Krystal Ball:I hadn't seen that quote, but if he said it, what an asshole he is. I've been saying that for years, that this is his dream, his campaign, I've put it at 30 years since 1996, a doctrine called Clean Break, which was a madman's document of a madman, Bibi Netanyahu, and his arch neocon extremist Zionist advisors in 1996 that basically was the blueprint for nonstop war in the Middle East. And now Netanyahu says what I've been saying. When I've been saying it, people have sometimes scoffed. But, oh, now I know it's a 40-year plan, not just a 30-year plan. The man is a psychopath. And this is the reality of it.

24:32Krystal Ball:We have been roped into endless war by these extreme Zionists, and we're now in an ever greater escalation to full regional war for the purpose of Israeli hegemony in the Middle East. Of course, it aligns with the madmen in Washington and Langley who want U.S. hegemony in the world. But that's what this is about. They don't count how many schoolgirls are dead. They couldn't care less. That's the whole point. There's nothing in this about the dead. This is all madmen's delusions.

25:22Jeffrey Sachs:Let's go and put up E2 on the screen here. So Trump is saying now he wants to talk to the Iranians after assassinating their supreme leader and bombing their country and starting this war. He told The Atlantic, quote, they want to talk. I've agreed to talk, so I will be talking to them. On the contrary, though, it does not appear that the Iranians want to talk for understandable reasons, especially after we used diplomacy now multiple times in a row as a ruse in order to attack their country. But what do you make of this outreach from President Trump and also the relative silence from the administration after launching this war?

26:01Krystal Ball:Trump's crazy. He may even believe this. But he's crazy. or he's psychopathic or it's what's called the dark triad personality, extreme Machiavellianism, inability to understand anything, murder the other side and say, we love you. That's his approach. It's completely spiraling out of control. I don't think he's the only agent of this, by the way. I think this is the CIA longstanding effort. It's what Netanyahu said. Again, I'm better informed this morning, thanks to you. It's 40 years, not 30 years. I always put it at a 30-year effort. But we have gone to war in Libya, Sudan, Somalia, occupied Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Iran for this extremist, delusional purpose.

27:17Krystal Ball:And what have we gotten out of it? Millions dead, but we're not supposed to count the dead. trillions of dollars of loss. Chaos from Libya to Iran. I mean chaos, a region across the entire North Africa, Horn of Africa, and the Middle East in chaos because of this insane Zionism and the U.S. complicity in it and the delusions of control. How many wars will we get into? But, you know, interestingly, two points. One, the American people see through this entirely. They're completely against this. Trump, well, to say that Trump lied is to sound like an idiot. Of course, Trump lies every time he opens his mouth.

28:15Krystal Ball:But his campaign was about not doing exactly this. But he's a puppet. He's a puppet of the CIA and a puppet of Miriam Edelman and a puppet of Bibi Netanyahu. So he's a puppet or blackmailed or something. So this is one point. The American people are completely against this. And as the Gallup poll showed last Friday, the American people are on the side of the Palestinians. Both make complete sense. This is a madhouse. This is not in any remote way. Rational, deliberate, legal, honest, aimed at our security. It's aimed at the delusion of. Complete control. Yeah. Well, yeah, you can't control the world this way.

29:17Krystal Ball:Right. Mad men have tried for millennia. We're just the latest in this, but it comes to a very bad end.

29:26Saagar Enjeti:And I think that we're seeing that all right now, especially with people like Lindsey Graham at the forefront. Why don't we take a listen to his comment about what the future of Iran should look like? Sounds a lot like what we have had in store for Iraq. Let's take a listen.

29:39Jeffrey Sachs:In the social media post Sunday, President Trump wrote this, quote, Hopefully the IRGC and police will peacefully merge with the Iranian patriots and work together as a unit to bring back the country to the greatness it deserves. Is hope the plan for the future of Iran?

30:01Professor Jiang:No, the future of Iran is going to be determined by the Iranian people. The new Iran, whatever it is, whether it's a cleric or a representative democracy, our goal is to make sure it cannot become, again, the largest state sponsor of terrorism.

30:19Jeffrey Sachs:That's a win for us. But is there a plan to make sure that happens, Senator? Is there a plan? Does the president have a plan to guarantee that that happens?

30:29Professor Jiang:No, it's not his job or my job to do this. How many times do I have to tell you? Our job is to make sure Iran is no longer the largest state sponsor of terrorism, to help the people reconstruct a new government, no boots on the ground. We don't own, you know, this idea, you break it, you own it. I don't buy that one bit. It's in America's interest to make sure the Ayatollah is dead. He's dead.

30:53Saagar Enjeti:He doesn't buy that you break it, you own it. He says, dodges the question there about any sort of plan that's currently in place. as you were saying earlier, it seems now like a literal madhouse in this government. Literally, sir, while you were talking, I just have to read you this quote from the Secretary of Defense. This is not a so-called regime change war, but the regime sure did change. This is what we're dealing with now, currently.

31:17Krystal Ball:Yeah, Secretary of War, I have to correct you. We don't have defense.

31:21Saagar Enjeti:I said Secretary of Defense, but yeah.

31:23Krystal Ball:We have war. Well, I've spent decades along with bemoaning Bibi Netanyahu and clean break, thinking that Lindsey Graham is the stupidest person in Washington, the most vile. That's a very tough competition, by the way. But that man has never opened his mouth in 30 years without wanting more deaths of other people. And now he also says so clearly, no responsibility. I would like the American people to understand. I'm sure that they do. But just to clarify, we have been meddling in and destroying Iran now for 73 years actively. It was in 1953 that the CIA and MI6 overthrew the democratically elected and popular government of Prime Minister Mossadegh.

32:21Krystal Ball:They did it because Mossadegh had the complete audacity to say that the oil in Iran should belong to the Iranian people. This was far too much for Alan Dulles at the CIA and for MI6, who knew full well that the oil in Iran belongs to Britain and to the United States. So they overthrew him. In that case, there was a, quote, successful regime change operation, which put in place a police state, the state led by the puppet, the Shah of Iran. In 1979, he was overthrown in a mass revulsion against decades of an American-imposed police state, and this government came into power. Immediately, immediately, the United States armed Iraq to kill hundreds of thousands of Iranians.

33:20Krystal Ball:In the Iraq-Iran war between 1980 and 1988, Saddam Hussein was our guy. He was the CIA's guy. Of course, when the CIA is done with you, they kill you. So Saddam became the worst enemy of the United States soon afterwards, after he had done the bidding of the United States for years. Since then, it has been, actually now I know it since 1986, it's been Bibi Netanyahu's dream to overthrow the Iranian government. I always counted it as 1996. But the United States has been using every subterfuge, covert operation. It has been using assassinations, economic warfare, crushing the Iranian economy ever since.

34:16The Iranians have said all that time they don't want a nuclear weapon.

34:23Krystal Ball:Bibi Netanyahu, who is a psychopath, said in 1996 they're weeks away, days away, months away. And he's been saying that for 30 years. For all I know, he's been saying it for 40 years. He is a vulgar, blatant, genocidal liar. I hope I'm being clear. We're dealing with something absolutely dangerous in this world that is running our country. So it's extremely dangerous. The Iranians did not want a nuclear weapon. The religious leader who they just assassinated was the one that said, no nuclear weapons. It's against Islam. So kill him. It had nothing to do with nuclear weapons all this time. The Iranians reached out constantly to negotiate.

35:15Krystal Ball:And in 2015, they concluded an agreement with the United States, Britain, France, Russia, China, and Germany, the P5 countries plus one called the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. And it put Iran strictly under UN supervision in the International Atomic Energy Agency. Bibi Netanyahu had a fit because he wanted to overthrow the government. He did not want peaceful relations with a non-nuclear Iran. So Donald Trump, who is a puppet of our CIA, Mossad, and Miriam Adelson and the rest, ripped up the JCPOA in 2018. That's the story. Then they bombed one of Iran's nuclear facilities. And by the way, during the period from 2015 to 2018, Iran stuck with the agreement even though the United States cheated on the agreement that it signed because it was supposed to end the U.S.

36:24Krystal Ball:sanctions which it did not do then Trump ripped it up then they began a campaign of assassinations then they began bombing Iran's nuclear facilities And that's the story. They don't want an agreement. Last year, they negotiated. And then in the middle of the negotiations, bombed Iran. This year, again, they negotiated and then bombed Iran. You might ask, why did Iran come back to the negotiating table this time after the falsity last time? I'll tell you why. It's a little strange. It's a little weird. But nobody behaves as badly as the United States. So it's very hard to calibrate when there is a government that says we're negotiating, when they bring in a mediator, in this case, Oman, when the U.S.

37:26Krystal Ball:negotiators, Whitcoff and Kushner, say, oh, we're making progress. It's hard for other people to calibrate the evil that's under it. This was a premeditated war, and the negotiations are a pretext. So this is what's happening. It's amazing. You don't see this anywhere else in the world. By the way, at the emergency meeting of the UN Security Council that I attended on Saturday, you see how we're in the looking glass because one country after another attacked Iran for its violence. Even Bahrain called it unprovoked attack by Iran. Well, it's actually easy to do the scorecard. If your country hosts the U.S.

38:28Krystal Ball:military, first of all, it means that you also host the CIA. It means you are an occupied country. And so everyone that spoke against Iran is an occupied country by the United States. These are not independent countries. When we listen to Mertz or to Macron or to the Danes or to to the British. The U.S. military and CIA is all over those countries and has been for decades. These are not independent voices. These are part of the vassal states of the empire. This empire is destroying itself in its bloodiness, its bloody mindedness, its murders, its wars, its debts, the trillions of dollars we're spending in this.

39:17Krystal Ball:But this is an empire that is behaving so shockingly that others actually can't calibrate. They don't understand that negotiation means we will come to murder you. And that the best thing is we will murder your religious leader.

39:36Jeffrey Sachs:Let me go ahead and put E5 up on the screen to your point about the Gulf allies here. So there was a Saudi analyst who went on Al Jazeera and told them, quote, America has abandoned us and focused its defense systems on protecting Israel, leaving the Gulf states that host its military bases at the mercy of Iranian missiles and drones. And we have seen some impacts throughout the region, including, you know, unbelievable images in Dubai, which is, of course, a playground of the global rich where some of the luxury hotels have been hit. I can scarcely wrap my head around the level of, you know, damage, brand damage and economic damage that will be done over the long term.

40:20Jeffrey Sachs:What do you make of these comments and potentially reassessment that is being done here by the Saudis as they see that the U.S.'s number one priority is ourselves and the Israelis?

40:31Krystal Ball:Well, I would refer them to two observations. First, by President John F. Kennedy in his inaugural address, he said those who would ride on the back of the tiger often find themselves inside it. In other words, you ride on the back of a violent empire, you become a victim. So the Saudis have known full well. They host U.S. military bases. The Gulf countries host U.S. military bases. The behavior of the United States is brazen and illegal. So this is what comes. I would also cite Henry Kissinger's famous adage that to be an enemy of the United States is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal. So these countries need to grow up.

41:20Krystal Ball:They need to understand, does the Arab world want to be a vassal of the United States? I don't think so. Does that provide them security? I don't think so. And incidentally, the damage to an entrepot like Dubai is devastating. This is supposed to be the place where it's safe to bring your family, to bring your money, to come for vacation, not to be in a hotel that is bombed. This will have a very, very long shadow on the region. But that is the miscalculation that these countries have made. They've watched the United States and Israel commit a genocide in Gaza. They were quiet because they're occupied.

42:06Krystal Ball:They think this is safe. This is not safe. the safety in our world is to speak the truth. It's not to go along with the brazen evil of power.

42:18Saagar Enjeti:Finally, I'm just curious for how you think. We talked there about the UN Security Council. There's been a lot of big talk by the president of Canada or the prime minister of Canada. The new world order is changing. He immediately supports the regime change war with Iran. You just talked here about the vassal states of Europe. For how long are their populations going to put up with this. We just did a segment about blowback specifically across the entire Middle East, including a possible terrorist attack right here on our own country, reminiscent of many of the scenes from the war in Iraq and the so-called global war on terror.

42:50Saagar Enjeti:Do you think this is going to be a prolonged kind of earth-shaking geopolitical movement? Or is there any point at all for us to be able to pull back from the brink and Trump can just falsely declare victory and move on? Or is just the genie out of the bottle completely.

43:03Krystal Ball:I just want to point out that a momentous event last week, which seems like a different world because it is, was when the German chancellor, Mertz, went to China and there were clips of him watching the Chinese robots performing. He was watching something the United States can't do, Europe can't do. He was watching a country that is at peace and that is moving forward technologically, that is investing, that is at the frontier of technology. And the United States, in the meantime, is mass murdering people, killing people, running a budget deficit of 7 % of GDP, and can't keep our goddamn infrastructure working at all.

43:51Krystal Ball:You come back to any American infrastructure, any airport, nothing works. Not the escalators, not the elevators, not the walkways. Nothing works. Our government is half shut down. So the reality is we are doing ourselves in this way under this quest for global hegemony. That's the real story here. How self-destructive this is. by the way, how much Trump lied every word about claiming that he was going to stop this. He didn't stop it at all. He just opened up the floodgates of more killing.

44:28Jeffrey Sachs:Professor Sachs, thank you as always for your insights. We're really grateful for your time this morning.

44:32Krystal Ball:Thank you, sir. Great to be with you. Thank you.

44:35Jeffrey Sachs:This is Ashley Iacanetti from the Ben and Ashley I, Almost Famous podcast. iVeam is built for losing weight and moving forward. iVeam is built for feeling your best and seeing real results. iVeam is a medical weight loss program built for you. Their approach is individualized, virtual, integrative medicine. 99.2 % of patients who've completed the iVeam weight loss protocol achieved meaningful change, dropping an average of 45 pounds. iVeam, built for wellness journey, IVM, built for real life. When you sign up right now, you can get a one month free trial. Start your personalized plan in minutes by visiting IVIMHealth.com.

45:23Jeffrey Sachs:That is IVIMHealth.com. Subscription required, medication, labs, and supplements not included. Results based on patients who completed the full IVM protocol over 68 weeks. Individual results may vary. Not all patients are eligible. Prescription medication may carry risks and should be used only as directed by your provider. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

45:57Saagar Enjeti:The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men.

46:02Jeffrey Sachs:Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian Visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood. A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

46:22Saagar Enjeti:He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

46:30Jeffrey Sachs:If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must-listen. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. What if mind control is real?

46:53Krystal Ball:If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

46:57Jeffrey Sachs:Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

47:00Krystal Ball:When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

47:04Jeffrey Sachs:Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

47:07Krystal Ball:I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

47:11Jeffrey Sachs:Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. NLP, aka Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

47:27Krystal Ball:It's about engineering consciousness.

47:28Jeffrey Sachs:Mind Games is the story of NLP, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all? NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, guys, we've got yet another heavy hitter guest and first time guest on the show, Professor Zhang. He is the star of the popular YouTube channel, Predictive History. He uses game theory to analyze past, current, and to predict future geopolitical events.

48:10Jeffrey Sachs:And he joins us now. Professor, great to have you.

48:12Saagar Enjeti:Good to see you, sir. Thanks for inviting me.

48:14Jeffrey Sachs:Yeah, of course. So, you know, for people who aren't familiar with your work, I wanted to show folks that back in 2024, you made three big predictions. One, that Trump would win. Two, that he would start a war with Iran. And three, that the U.S. would lose that war. Let's take a listen to that.

48:33Professor Jiang:In this class, this semester, I'm making three big predictions, right? First is that Trump will win in November. Second is that the United States will go to war against Iran. And the third big prediction is that the United States will lose this war, which will forever change the global order.

48:59Jeffrey Sachs:So obviously, that last one is the only one that has not yet come to fruition is quite a stunning prediction. Do you stand by it? And what have you seen so far that leads you to sort of stand firm in that conclusion?

49:11Professor Jiang:So, given my analysis of how the war is progressing, I think that Iran has many more advantages over the United States. The reality is that right now, it's a war of attrition between the United States and Iran. And the Iranians have been preparing 20 years for this conflict. In their eschatology, in their religion, this is a war against the great Satan. They've had many practice runs. Last June was a 12-day war when the Iranians were able to examine and analyze the strike capacities of both the Israelis and the Americans. And they've had a lot of time, eight months, to prepare fully for this new attack.

50:01Professor Jiang:They, through their proxies, the Hufis, Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Shia militias, have been able to really grasp the American mentality. And now they have a pretty good strategy of how to weaken and ultimately destroy the American empire. So what the Iranians are doing is they're waging war against the entire global economy. And so they are striking the GCC countries. And not only are they striking GCC countries, American bases, they're going after the critical energy infrastructure of these bases. They block the temperature of Hormuz. And eventually, they will go after the water desalination plants, which is the lifeblood of these nations because they don't have fresh water supply.

50:52Professor Jiang:In fact, the water desalination plant provides 60 % of the GCC's water supply. So if a drone, and these drones cost$50 ,000, if they wiped out a desalination plant in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and it's a city of 10 million people, right? They'd be out of water in two weeks. In two weeks. and right now the Iranians have de facto closed off the Shreve Hormuz and the GCC gets 90 % of its food from the Shreve Hormuz. So I know a lot of people are talking about the disruptions to the global economy but right now the Iranians are actually threatening the very existence of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar.

51:46Professor Jiang:And why this is important is that the Gulf states are really the linchpin of the American economy. So what they do is they sell petrodollars and then they recycle the petrodollars back into the American economy through the investments in the stock market. And right now, we know that the entire American economy is propped up by AI investments in data centers. And a lot of that comes from the Gulf states. So if the Gulf states are no longer able to sell oil and they're no longer able to finance AI, this AI bubble in the United States, then this AI bubble will burst and with it will burst as well as the entire American economy, which is really a financial policy scheme.

52:36Professor Jiang:So that's a dire situation that the Americans are facing right now.

52:39Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, I mean, to your point, sir, an Amazon data center was literally hit in the UAE. And now, of course, big tech companies, which we're looking at the UAE as a major potential data center investment hub with cheap and abundant energy, probably going to be rethinking that. We also wanted to talk to you about munitions. We can put this next one up here on the screen. The United States is racing to accomplish Iran mission before munitions run out. This is specifically around interceptor math. There's a famous video just from yesterday in Israel, which shows a single Iranian ballistic missile, which is being targeted by some 11 different interceptors, all of which miss.

53:15Saagar Enjeti:Most of those come from the United States, not to mention all of the different bases, the GCC countries that you just talked about, and the asymmetry of the cost. It's a million dollar for a missile, tens of millions per interceptor in some of these cases. With these munitions running out, how does that change the global picture? So here in China, obviously, much of the stocks in Asia of the United States are likely to have to be cannibalized if this were to go on. How is that going to affect the global picture here? Right.

53:42Professor Jiang:So my first point is that the United States military is not designed to fight a 21st century war. Remember, the military industrial complex came to being after World War II and was designed to fight the Cold War. And the Cold War was really about muscle flexing, about who was able to send people up into space, who was able to first get the person on the moon, who had the more complex missile systems. And so the entire American military strategy revolves around very sophisticated technology that costs a lot of money to build. And that's what the American air defense system is, is basically. And that's why we're seeing this asymmetry, as you point out, in this war where you have these million dollar missiles trying to take out these$50 ,000 drones.

54:33Professor Jiang:And it's not sustainable in the long term. And so what we're seeing is really the puncturing of the aura of invincibility and inviability that sustained American hegemony for the past 20 years, especially after the collapse of the Soviet Union. And this is really a reordering of not just a global economy, because this signals the collapse of the petrodollar and with it the entire U.S. dollar-based reserve currency system, but also the global hegemony of the United States. We're moving towards a multipolar world.

55:11Jeffrey Sachs:Professor, this morning, Secretary of War Pete Hegseth was asked a question about potential ground troops in Iran. he refused to rule out that possibility. And he said, you know, oh, well, we're not going to project to you what we will or will not do, what we don't want to rule anything out. We will do what it takes. Do you think that America will end up invading Iran from the ground since it's already becoming relatively clear they won't be able to accomplish the goal of regime change or even regime collapse using just air power alone? Right.

55:44Professor Jiang:So everyone says that the worst calamity that could happen in the United States is if it were to send ground troops into Iran. At the same time, the United States are committed to regime change in Iran. We've never had a precedent in history where you were able to regime change from the air alone. You need ground troops. And so unfortunately, what's going to happen over the next few months is that pressure will build on America to send ground troops, especially from the GCC countries and from Israel, which are being piloted right now by the Iranians. So remember that if the GCC countries, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Iran, if they go, then the petrodollar goes with them.

56:29Professor Jiang:So the Americans need to protect these countries. And these countries are going to demand that either the Americans bribe the Iranians to And this is like$520 in indemnity, okay? Or send ground troops to wipe out the Iranian threat once and for all. And I know that there's no political will for ground troops to be used against Iran among the American people. But remember that 70-80 % of American people was against initial strikes against Iran in the first place.

57:02Saagar Enjeti:Right. And one of the things that really comes into question, I think, with all of this, sir, when we're looking at the geopolitical picture and the sacrificing in much of this from the United States on behalf of Israel is kind of a question as to who and what wanted this. We were actually curious for your view on a disputed report here from The Washington Post. We can put it up here on the screen, F3. A push from the Saudis. Israel helped move Trump to attack Iran. Now, this has been internally disputed by Saudi Arabia, saying that they did not push the Trump administration to attack Iran. However, this is clearly an authorized leak from our own government trying to at least lay some of the blame on behalf of the GCC.

57:41Saagar Enjeti:What do you make of this analysis and of this narrative that Saudi Arabia was also trying to be behind this push to bomb Iran?

57:49Professor Jiang:So I've always argued that both Saudi Arabia and Israel are heavily invested in regime change in Iran. In fact, Saudi Arabia sees Iran as much more of an existential crisis than Israel. Because remember, Israel still has nuclear weapons, and Israel is a very diverse, very sophisticated economy, whereas Saudi Arabia is completely reliant on oil. And it's always had problems with Iran because Iran is a theocracy opposed to the Saudi monarchy. Iran funds and equips the Houthis, which have been antagonistic towards Saudi Arabia for the longest time. And right now, the Saudi economy is suffering. It's been trying to pivot towards more of a tourist economy.

58:36Professor Jiang:That's why they brought in Renato. That's why they're switching to e-gaming. That's why they're building something called a line, NEOM. And all these things are not working out. So they need to be able to control the oil resources of the entire Middle East if they are to survive and thrive as a nation. So I do believe that this reporting is credible, even though it does make Saudi Arabia look bad. But remember, Saudi Arabia says that they wanted peace, but they are helping the Israelis and Americans attack Iran right now because they're allowing the Israelis and Americans to use Saudi airspace.

59:15Jeffrey Sachs:So help us understand, because it still feels to me like there are some pieces that don't totally add up. You had in advance of this war on Iran, you had top military brass up to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff saying, this is a really bad idea. You know, we are not ready for this. You know, all the math on the interceptors that's been talked about for months at this point. And yet Trump still decided to go ahead. What is the calculus that he was making here that led him to take what, you know, already appears to be catastrophic actions? Right.

59:51Professor Jiang:OK, so this is the key question. Why do they do this? I think there are three possibilities. OK, and I think all three possibilities are valid. The first is that if hubris. If you look at history, this is how empires behave. So the Mindoro kidnapping was quick, successful, and it was adrenaline rush for Trump. And that made him overconfident in the capacity of the American military. So hubris is a factor. And we see this throughout history. Why did Hitler invade Stalin? Because he conquered Europe really easily and he fought it was invincible. And that led to the destruction of the German army in the Soviet Union.

1:00:30Professor Jiang:So hubris is a factor. Then you have to look at internal political calculus, where even though America does not benefit from this war against Iran, Trump himself personally benefits. Why? Because the Saudis and the Israelis are bribing him to attack Iran. Remember that the Saudis invested$2 billion in the private equity fund of Jared Kushner, who is the son-in-law of Donald Trump. And the Israelis, through Miriam Adelson, have been financing Trump's political career. So Miriam Adelson, a few months back, said that she will put up$250 million if Trump were to run a third term. So Trump is getting a lot of financial and political support from the Saudis and Israelis.

1:01:17Professor Jiang:Also remember that if this war goes sideways and Trump is forced to use ground troops, he will probably get approval from Congress. And this will give him emergency war powers, which will allow him to influence the midterms. So Trump is thinking about a third term. And I think at the public box, he probably won't get it. But if there's a war going on and you can delay elections and you have emergency war powers and people rally around the flag, then he probably will get a third term. And the last factor that is very important is the eschatological factor where if you look at the Epson files, it's clear that we are run by secret societies.

1:01:59Professor Jiang:It's clear that the world is run by these individuals who have a lot of power. We don't know who they are, but they control the military. They control the national security apparatus. And these people, there are different names for these people. You can call them Illuminati. And Illuminati are composed of three major groups, okay? You have the Jesuits, who control the Vatican. You have the Sepertine Frankists, which control the modern state of Israel today. You have the Freemasons, which control the national security apparatus of the United States. and they believe that Israel, this war in the Middle East, is key to the end times in creating heaven on earth.

1:02:39Professor Jiang:So it's almost like a script that they're following, even though it doesn't make any duplical sense. Okay, so I would say that these three are the best reasons why this is happening.

1:02:49Saagar Enjeti:Wow. Well, sir, I hope you come back. This was very informative, I think, for both of us. We deeply appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you. We went a little bit late today, so we're going to be doing the AMA tomorrow. So we'll see you all then.

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