3/20/26: Bibi Demands Ground Troops, Hegseth Caught Lying, Iran War Master Plan w/ David Sirota

22:33Because let's say there is some miraculous off ramp that is achieved right now. The Iranians rationally may very well begin pursuing, you know, a nuclear weapon or moving again in that direction. And Israel will be right here back in D.C., you know, Netanyahu himself and all of his allies saying, You're not going to let this happen. You said there can be no nuclear Iran. You can't let this happen on your watch. And we will be right back here all over again. So it is a very, very grim landscape in front of us. Yes. And it's not it's it's sadly going everything that you just laid out, Chris, I was struck by how this is what people were talking about.

23:15The likelihood of this happening, exactly what we're seeing, like the outline of this is exactly what people were warning was going to happen and being called panic ins or whatever else. But like just three weeks ago, it was fairly clear that unless Trump did a quick cut and run midnight hammer thing, which he was not indicating is what he would do. Obviously, this was something at a larger scale. This exact pattern pattern is probably the right word is what would reveal itself over the next couple of weeks. And I don't think it gives anyone pleasure to be right about that. But it's so it's going so closely to the script, unfortunately.

23:54Yeah. So we mentioned Pete Hegseth. Yeah, go ahead. Can you cue up the one where he's talking about number one state sponsor of terrorism?

24:02David Sirota:Of course. Yeah. Yeah. You got that ready to go for us? So we got Pete Hegseth here talking about a little bit of the funding of the Iranian country. Let's take a listen here. That's why you had millions of Iranians protesting, because they felt like their condition, quality of life didn't match what it could be or should be. And what was the Iranian state? There's a reason we call Iran the number one state monster of terrorism. They took the money they make and they invested in tunnels and they invested in missiles and they invested in launchers and UAB. $200 billion, I think that number could move, obviously.

24:37It takes money to kill bad guys. So we're going back to Congress and our folks there to ensure that we're properly funded for what's been done, for what we may have to do in the future. Incredible. incredible lack of self-awareness there. $200 billion, that tells you what they think is coming. That's exactly, that is your indication they are preparing for a long drawn out war at this point. They're asking Congress right now for an additional$200 billion. Yes. And isn't, I think I saw some stats yesterday that's more than we sent to Ukraine in four years of that war, just for perspective. Like this is a massive amount of money.

25:21And he says that that number could move. It's not moving down. The only direction it's going to move is up. I actually saw Lauren Boebert this morning saying that she's a no on the additional war funding. So, you know, she then got further pressed. Oh, well, do you, you know, do you think that this war should continue? And she's like, that's up to Trump. So she kind of defers on that point, but at least is saying$200 billion. I don't think I'm voting for that. But the lack of self-awareness here of Hegseth within minutes of each other saying that the reason Iran is the number one state sponsor of terror is because they take their money and they spend it on missiles.

25:59And then moments later, asking Congress for$200 billion for missiles, taking our money and spending on missiles for starting World War III and bombing little girls in grade school. Pretty astonishing. And, you know, the American public is so propagandized that I think most people won't even won't even really notice that. It's like it's it's it's different when Iran does it than when we do it. You know, it's not the same when they do it. But, you know, that is the reality of what our state is becoming. They're asking for one point five trillion dollar defense budget. They already have a one trillion dollar defense budget.

26:34And now you're coming back and asking for two hundred billion dollars more for a war that we're told has already been a glorious victory. Trump told us we already won this thing, this little excursion. Just so insane. And you can only imagine what good could actually be done with that money instead. I just want to say, I just pulled this up, Crystal. This is astounding. So as according to the Council for Foreign Relations, Council for Foreign Relations, as of December 31st, 2025, the U.S. Congress has made available$188 billion in spending related to the war in Ukraine, according to the U.S. Special Inspector General for Operation Atlantic Resolve.

27:11So think about that. Think about that, everyone. Over several years of war in Ukraine,$188 billion, which is a lot of money, by the way, already a lot of money. We are two, three weeks into, I guess, three weeks now into this war in Iran, and they're asking for$200 billion from Congress. over a war. I mean, again, Donald Trump said he would end the war in Ukraine, he said he'd end the war in Gaza, but he said he would not start new wars, not start new wars. And this entire question of whether there was an imminent threat, we're playing semantics with it right now. But I think everybody understands because the Secretary of State and the Speaker of the House came out and said it when the war started, was nudged, at least the timeline was nudged by the Israelis.

27:59And I agree with Crystal. I think Our government has plenty of agency. If that's the case, we chose. We still made our decision. But the question of whether this is a war of choice or necessity has pretty much been answered. And$200 billion request three weeks into it. iVeem is built for losing weight and moving forward. iVeem is built for feeling your best and seeing results. iVeem is a medical weight loss program built for you. Their approach is individualized, virtual, integrative medicine. 99.2 % of patients who completed the IVM weight loss protocol achieved meaningful change, dropping an average of 45 pounds.

28:42IVM built for your wellness journey. IVM built for real life. When you sign up right now, you can get a one-month free trial. Start your personalized plan in minutes by visiting IVMHealth.com. That's IVMHealth.com. Subscription-required medication labs and supplements not included. Results based on patients who completed the full IVIM protocol over 68 weeks. Individual, results vary. Not all patients are eligible. Prescription medications may carry risks and should be used only as directed by your provider.

29:19David Sirota:Doing taxes the old way meant handing everything off and just hoping things were moving. But now you can feel confident your taxes are being handled right with Intuit TurboTax. Now you match with a TurboTax full-service expert. Just upload your documents right in the app, and boom, they take it from there. Start to finish, you've got a dedicated expert working your return. They check every deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome, so you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And now you're not guessing what's happening, you're seeing it happen. TurboTax gives you real-time updates on your experts' progress while you go about your day.

29:58David Sirota:Run errands, grab a coffee, live your life. You're always in the loop. And if a question pops up, you get unlimited expert help at no extra cost, even on nights and weekends during tax season. Taxes are finally transparent, easier, and handled. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full-service experts. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math & Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math & Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing.

30:35David Sirota:I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance, and everywhere in between. This season on Math & Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate, Mike Milken, Take-Two Interactive CEO, Strauss Zelnick. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and her own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top.

31:13David Sirota:Listen to Math & Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of Hexet having a hard time selling this war, we have a clip here where he did a little story from his son on why we have to keep fighting this war. My 13-year-old son popped into my office last night while I was editing these remarks. He asked about the war and the families I met at Gover. And I looked at him and I said, they died for you. So that your generation doesn't have to deal with the nuclear Iran. It's the truth. It is. To the families who said, finish this, we will.

32:01And I say the same to every American who wants peace through France. All right.

32:07David Sirota:So the families of the fallen soldiers, they told Pete, you know what? It's worth it. Let's finish this. Finish the damn job. Except some of the families are disputing that conversation. Father of service member Kildan Iranwar said he never told Pete Hegseth to finish the job. They go on to say in this article that they are just a little confused and unsure. You know, I mean, these are patriotic families, right? So, you know, these are this is not something that they want to believe that their son or daughter, you know, died for a reason. But they're just they just are not sure. And that was the conversations in this report that they were asking Pete about.

32:53David Sirota:I hope this is worth it. Just so senseless. And we actually had a video of another parents of fallen service member saying, you know, I'm actively wanting the war to stop. So to lie about something like this to me is just so incredibly low. Like to use these service members' families and then to put words in their mouths so that you can use them like a little puppet, you know, to get your talking points across is so disgusting to me. Not to mention, obviously, the story with his own son is completely and totally fake. And even if it's not fake, I am driven completely insane by the gaslighting here about the timeline.

33:34Let us not forget, it was the first Trump administration that tore up the Iranian nuclear deal that was working. And it was this Trump administration that twice used diplomatic negotiations as a ruse to attack and start a war with Iran. In that second set of negotiations, we now have multiple people who are involved. We have the Omanis. We actually have one of the British officials involved who said this. There were incredible concessions made here. This was a deal that was workable, that went beyond. If you were concerned that the original deal with Obama wasn't strong enough, it went beyond that.

34:14And they didn't even bother these clowns to send negotiators that even understood what was being discussed. So for him to say, oh, we're doing the work to keep Iran from getting a nuclear weapon to make the world safe for our children. What total and complete bullshit. You have made it more likely that Iran and, by the way, a whole host of other countries around the world pursue nuclear weapons because that is ultimately the only deterrence that may work to keep us from coming in and bombing their countries and murdering their children and their heads of state.

34:52David Sirota:And Doge also cut a bunch of the energy and nuclear scientists that would have been able to analyze and create like a new framework or a new deal for us. So thank you, big balls, for that as well. Emily, what were you saying? Well, I should say the idea that Iran's that you're going to stop Iran from wanting a nuclear weapon so long as Israel has nuclear weapons. It's just not happening. And that is just in the Middle East. There are multiple countries with nuclear capacity. So if you're Iran, you can't bomb away the sentiment that they want to have a nuclear weapon capacity. And you could even try to change the regime, and it's not going to bomb away the sentiment among people in Iran that that's something that they should have, that they need to have.

35:41And that, as Crystal was saying, in and of itself is the idea that we're not going to be dealing with this in another generation. Unfortunately, tragically, not happening.

35:55David Sirota:And on that note, Emily, we needed your expertise for this next one before we get to Sirota. So we don't know why we're doing it. We don't know who we're doing it for. Actually, we may now know who we're doing it for, the spirit of Genghis Khan. Let's take a listen to Netanyahu here. also wrote The Lessons of History, very brief, 100-page book, in which he said, history proves that, unfortunately, and unhappy, Jesus Christ has no advantage over genius-run. Because if you are strong enough, ruthless enough, powerful enough, evil will overcome good. Aggression will overcome moderation. so you have no choice if you look at the world as it is today you have to be blind not to see the democracy led by the united states have to reassert their will to defend themselves and to oppose their enemies in time while there's still time before the jarring gong of danger wakes them up and wakes them up too late this is where we are now the jarring gong of danger Yeah, that's my band name.

37:11David Sirota:Bong. Emily, I know you're always asking yourself, what would Genghis Khan do? Yeah, WWGKD. That's your bumper sticker. I have the bracelet. I mean, apparently he's paraphrasing Durant, who was making a comment on human nature. Let me pull up that quote. I have it. Nature and history do not agree with our conceptions of good and bad. They define good as that which survives and bad as that which goes under. And the universe has no prejudice in favor of Christ as against Genghis Khan. And that's my perspective that him trotting out that paraphrased quote right now is that it does it feels almost like taunting.

38:00And, you know, Nietzsche would Nietzsche's perspective on Christ was that it was a sort of a slave morality that the Christianity valorizes weakness. And that's been throughout history, a criticism of Christianity. And whether or not Netanyahu was intentionally trying to poke at Christians and Christians in America, like Tucker Carlson, for example, who are making Christian arguments against, you know, the war in Gaza and the like, I don't know. I would recommend a couple of books, Dominion by Tom Holland and Airway Breathe by Glenn Scrivener is a really good one, too, about where there's the universalism in Christianity that, again, it feels like kind of taunting that Jesus comes along and says, go and make disciples of all nations, all nations, which is historically somewhat unique.

38:56And he says there will be one shepherd and one flock, meaning everyone in the world is covered by sacrifice. And then Paul says there is no Jew or Greek. That's in Galatians. And that, Tom Holland rightly points out, changes absolutely everything. And is it true that Christians have done a poor job throughout history honoring the egalitarianism of Christ's message? Yes, of course. But that's still—there's still a tension between Christianity and other religions. because of that. And it does Netanyahu trotting out that quote is it feels it feels like he might have been intentionally trying to poke a bear, whether it's Tucker or someone else.

39:37Well, they came out after the fact and were like, felt the need to issue a statement on the Twitter account, the official like prime minister of Israel Twitter account that was like, we meant no offense to Christians. We were just quoting this thing. But, you know, the funny thing to me, like coming at this from a totally non-religious perspective is this dodge that I've seen, not just from him, but from plenty of other people who are not even like that sympathetic to him or like he's just quoting something. It's like just because you're quoting someone else doesn't mean that that like original quote was also a good thing.

40:10You know, I mean, that's still a choice. You're like co-signing this idea. And to me, it was just very revealing of what I think is a dominant mindset, not just with Netanyahu, but within Israel, they see themselves as inherently moral, right? Not based on their actions, not based on what they do in the world, which, you know, to me is how you define morality. It's like, what do you do? Do you cause harm or do you cause peace? Like, what are you, are you genociding children in Gaza? Because that seems to have a real bearing to me on whether you are a moral actor. But the view here offered by Netanyahu is we are inherently the good side.

40:48So even if we commit evil acts, it's in service of our own inherent goodness. And this is a, you know, I mean, this is a supremacist ideology, which is what Israel, what Zionism is based on, is a Jewish supremacist ideology. And a lot of times when he's speaking to, you know, know, an American audience or Western audience in general, then he'll talk about Western values, talk about Judeo-Christian values. So then we get also brought in the fold of the inherently good. And so he's saying here, and again, very noteworthy this is offered in English, I think it could be seen as a taunt to Christian.

41:25I think that's certainly the case, especially since there's been this, you know, this tension with the Tucker Carlson's of the world, etc. And the Pope has called for a ceasefire, by the way. So it's not just for Protestants in America. There's a lot of religious backlash. That's a great point. So you have that angle of it, but you also have him projecting to the American audience. You may be feeling a little squeamish about this, like, girl school that you just bombed and murdered all these children, but trust me, you're still the good guys here. You're still, no matter what you do in this war, because if you don't act in barbaric ways, in evil ways, then the ultimate evil, the inherently evil, you know, and what's underneath the surface there is Muslims, Persians, Iranian, Arabs, you know, anybody who would oppose the Israelis.

42:16If you don't act against that inherent evil in this barbaric way, then those people will win out. It's a kind of a rehash of his Children of the Light versus Children of the Darkness speech at the beginning of the genocidal assault on Gaza, where, again, it's like anything is justified in our attempts here to decimate and destroy the Palestinian people because we're the good ones. Not because of what we do, just because of who we are. And they're the bad ones. Not because of their age or who they are or what they do, but just inherently. And that is such an abhorrent, deeply abhorrent, destructive, disgusting worldview to me.

42:57But that's what, you know, that is the ideology. That is the reigning ideology in Israel, you have to say at this point. I think what turned people like Tucker Carlson and actually like Carrie Prejean Bowler against what they were seeing in Gaza was precisely the part of their faith. And it's emphasized all the time about the vulnerable. And again, this was Nietzsche's contention with Christianity, actually. And Tom Holland has done really great debates on this. People should just pop that into YouTube and watch his debates or read Dominion. It's fantastic. But I think when you see the powerful, abuse civilians that are powerless.

43:38That's very, very moving to a lot of Christians, not everybody. But like Augustine, or not Augustine, Aquinas had his just war doctrine, and you can make a pretty good argument, and that's probably why Pope Leo has called for a ceasefire. If you look at the United States and Israel's decision to launch this particular war, Or you could argue that it's violating the Christian tradition of what constitutes a just war. And so Netanyahu, who is secular, by the way, that's disputed. I mean, he's a political figure and I think has tried to send different signals at different times in his career. It feels like, to your point about the children of light versus the children of the darkness, is trying to make this argument that you can use strength.

44:29And that can be used against civilians because ultimately you're on the good side. And that's what's important is protecting your people. And I think that's attractive to a lot of people around the world. But the more you see like the girls' school, for example, or other abuses of civilians, it doesn't fly with other people. Yeah, I mean, being absolved for your crimes, I'm sure that does feel good to a lot of people like, oh, here's an excuse where you get to act with impunity and, you know, indulge your most barbaric and cruel instincts. But really, if you think hard enough about it because you're good, it's all fine.

45:10The other thing, and, you know, I think there are others who could probably who could probably lay this out more effectively and with more knowledge than me. But Jonathan Greenblatt recently, in addition to saying all kinds of other crazy crap, he said something about we are no longer the like weak knee Jews or the knock knee Jews or something like that. And this is an idea that goes back to World War II, deeply anti-Semitic, but in a like sort of self-loathing anti-Semitic way that there is like victim blaming of Holocaust victims that they weren't strong enough to stand up. And so part of the founding of Israel was the idea that, like, we're going to create a state that is it will stand up, that will, I mean, committed terrorist acts and ethnic cleansing in order to found the state.

45:55And we are going to be barbaric in a way, you know, and cruel and tough and strong in a way that, you know, our ancestors who were slaughtered in the Holocaust in a way that they weren't. again, deeply disgusting view, but, you know, offered by someone like ADL's Jonathan Greenblatt, who supposedly is all against antisemitism, it's supposed to be his whole thing. And it sort of reminds me of that as well, where it's like, you know, we can't afford to have to indulge in these little nice Christian values. We are the good guys, and we are going to use whatever means necessary to, even if those things look evil to you, but underneath the surface, because we're the good guys always and forever, no matter what we do, you know, you just don't understand that we're actually fighting evil with evil.

46:46And we have to do that because we don't have the luxury of acting any other way. And just my quick point on that would be that is the story of human history. Like that is what tribalism, that is very historically normal. That is what tribalism predating nation states. That's what it is. And liberalism, after World War II, was precisely conceived to overcome that because it leads to atrocities. And Israel has never been able to, because of the trauma that the Jewish people suffered through the Holocaust, the industrial scale genocide that's within living memory of people. That's not, like, not everybody has been on board with that because there's this constant fear, and understandably so, of another genocide coming along.

47:31And, you know, we don't have to go like that's that just took us to a totally different, deeper layer. But that's liberalism was meant precisely to overcome those instincts, will to power style instincts. And that's why we have international groups and treaties and laws. So that's, I think, a fundamental source of tension and has been for the last 100 years. Well, and let me say one last thing before we've got David Sirota waiting here, And I do want to get him in, which is that, you know, Hegseth and Stephen Miller and the whole Trump regime, they like to frame the idea of like international law or respect for civilians or rules of engagement as like weak and woke and pathetic and not realistic, blah, blah, blah.

48:13Stephen Miller says it the most sort of like directly. Pete Hegseth does as well, though. And Pete Hegseth, you know, one of the things that he's famous for is going and trying to get pardons for war criminals. So that is his worldview. But I think we already see in the Iran war that when we blow up all of the rules of engagement and international norms and, you know, and law and any sort of care and concern for civilians, this puts our own service members at risk. It puts the world economy at risk. I mean, it puts everything on the table. So we're already living with the consequences of blowing up all of those, you know, what would be perceived as sort of like woke liberal niceties.

48:55It's not just that you get to do what you want to your enemies. Your enemies also get to do what they want to you. And in a world where asymmetric power projection is more easily available than it ever has been before, that seems like a pretty foolish, pretty foolhardy and ultimately destructive way to go outside of, you know, any sort of moral concerns or morality.

49:20David Sirota:Yeah, we should probably try to keep some of these planes in the air before we start acting like Genghis Khan. On that note, why don't we get over to the man uncovering the master plan, David Sirota. Iveam is built for losing weight and moving forward. Iveam is built for feeling your best and seeing results. Iveam is a medical weight loss program built for you. Their approach is individualized, virtual, integrative medicine. 99.2 % of patients who completed the IVIM weight loss protocol achieved meaningful change, dropping an average of 45 pounds. IVIM, built for your wellness journey. IVIM, built for real life.

50:05When you sign up right now, you can get a one-month free trial. Start your personalized plan in minutes by visiting IVIMHealth.com. That's IVIMHealth.com. Subscription required medication labs and supplements not included. results based on patients who completed the full IVIM protocol over 68 weeks. Individual results vary. Not all patients are eligible. Prescription medications may carry risks and should be used only as directed by your provider.

50:37David Sirota:Doing taxes the old way meant handing everything off and just hoping things were moving. But now you can feel confident your taxes are being handled right with Intuit TurboTax. Now you match with a TurboTax full-service expert. Just upload your documents right in the app, and boom, they take it from there. Start to finish, you've got a dedicated expert working your return. They check every deduction and credit to help you get the best possible outcome, so you can feel confident you're getting every dollar you deserve. And now you're not guessing what's happening, you're seeing it happen. TurboTax gives you real-time updates on your expert's progress while you go about your day.

51:16David Sirota:Run errands, grab a coffee, live your life. You're always in the loop. And if a question pops up, you get unlimited expert help at no extra cost, even on nights and weekends during tax season. Taxes are finally transparent, easier, and handled. Visit TurboTax.com. Only available with TurboTax full-service experts. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math & Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math & Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing.

51:53David Sirota:I'm talking to leaders from the entertainment industry to finance and everywhere in between. This season on Math & Magic, I'm talking to CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario, financier and public health advocate, Mike Milken, Take-Two Interactive CEO, Strauss Zelnick. If you're unable to take meaningful creative risk and therefore run the risk of making horrible creative mistakes, then you can't play in this business. Sesame Street CEO Sherry Weston and her own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey. Making consumers see the value of the human voice and to have that guaranteed human promise behind it really makes it rise to the top.

52:31David Sirota:Listen to Math & Magic, stories from the frontiers of marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. David, are you there? I'm here, yes. Welcome, David. How are you today? Good. Thanks for having me. Yeah, of course. We're happy to have you. What's going on? You know, we're told that there is, it doesn't seem like there's a big plan with this war, but apparently you have uncovered the master plan. So update us on what's going on there. Well, I think the master plan is, as it relates to the Iran war, It's like the president woke up one morning and decided to go to start World War III, and there was no public justification for it.

53:17David Sirota:There was no congressional authorization for it. It was just like the king woke up on the wrong, or I guess in his frame, maybe the right side of the bed, and decided to start World War III, which is destabilizing the entire planet. And the point of our audio series is to ask the question, how is something like that even possible? And how is it that we've arrived at a place where a president has a constitution that says Congress declares war, and yet we're now where we are, where a war was started, basically like a World War III-esque situation. That wasn't just like one bombing. We're now in like a World War III-esque situation without any real authorization at all.

54:03David Sirota:And so it's this question of how did Donald Trump become a king? But it's not really only about Donald Trump. It's how did the presidency become a monarchy? And I think to answer that question, you have to answer the question of how it started really 50 years ago and how it's evolved over 50 years. We were at this place in our country's history or a similar place to it during and after Watergate. Watergate was seen as a scandal about an imperial presidency that had gotten out of control, not just out of control in terms of targeting Richard Nixon, targeting his political opponents. But remember, that was a time when Richard Nixon had campaigned promising to end the Vietnam War and then secretly, months later, secretly expanded the Vietnam War.

54:52David Sirota:It was a time where Richard Nixon started cutting off spending that had been authorized and passed by Congress. Roads were in the process of being made. And then the road construction had to stop because Richard Nixon asserted the right to say he could decide what spending moved forward and what spending did not move forward. So all of the fights that I think that we've gotten used to now and these examples of kind of an imperial presidency, we have been here before. But the thing is, is that after Watergate, Congress really pushed back and took back some of that power. I mean, there was the War Powers Resolution.

55:33David Sirota:There was the Budget Impoundment Act, which was designed to stop presidents from doing what Nixon had done. But there was really a backlash to the backlash that started after Congress took back some of its power. And there has been an ideology on the – I wouldn't call it the libertarian right, but in sort of the center of the Republican Party, sort of the Dick Cheney wing. Dick Cheney, of course, was the chief of staff to Gerald Ford right after Watergate. This real idea that Congress should never encroach on the president's authority. And that's, I think, part of why we are here today, where we woke up a few weeks ago and the president decided, hey, I'm just going to start World War III.

56:16Yeah. Let me go ahead and play for people a little bit of or we'll just play this whole trailer for the new season of Master Plan. First season was so incredible. Such extraordinary journalism. I can't wait to dig into this one and see what you've uncovered here as well. Let's go ahead and play this for everyone so they can get a taste of what they what you guys have put together.

56:36David Sirota:I have never been a quitter. Once upon a time, an imperial president was cast out of the palace. But all the president's men refused to relinquish the throne's power. I must put the vintage of America first. So they went to work rewiring the government.

57:07David Sirota:They didn't just take back the controls. They began building something new, something stronger. They gave the president the power to go around Congress to launch unauthorized wars. They ignored the law and cut secret arms deals. The Pentagon says millions of dollars worth of weapons were turned over to the CIA for shipment to Iran.

57:36David Sirota:They manufactured vast new executive powers for a war on terror. I would characterize Montanamo Bay as the least worst place we could have selected. The Obama administration is continuing a Bush-era policy, authorizing the killing of U.S. citizens abroad. The goal of this master plan was to create an all-powerful president, or as some called it, the unitary executive. You're not going to be a dictator, are you? I said, no, no, no. Other than day one. So when a man longing to be a king took the throne, he inherited unprecedented powers to get his way. And those powers are now turning our world upside down.

58:23David Sirota:Welcome to Master Plan Season 2, The Kingmakers. First of all, that animation is fantastic. Ben Clarkson, the artist, is amazing. He's amazing. Yeah, this is a sort of AI could never. AI could never. No, no. Trust me, the number of screenshots and storyboards that he put up, I saw him draw. That was like, that's the kind of thing AI can never do. Yeah, that is extraordinary. And one of the pieces I've been thinking about is, you know, on the one hand, you've got these actors, you know, Bill Barr being another one of these is really pushing forward the idea of the unitary executive. But perhaps what also the founders didn't anticipate is the way that Congress would just be like, OK, sure, we don't actually want any responsibility.

59:06Go ahead. Because the last time they took a vote on war, the Iraq war, it ended up coming back to bite, you know, the vast majority of them who voted for it, bite them in the ass. So they're like, we don't really want to take a vote on this war. We would rather just you do it. And then down the road, if it goes poorly, we can say it's his fault and not have to face any sort of political repercussions for it. Well, and that in and of itself was the AMF was such a broad delegation of power to the executive that Congress was complicit in that to Crystal's point.

59:35David Sirota:It's such a good it's such a good point. Right. Like like I think the founders like they didn't get everything right. Right. Like I think this idea that the founders got everything right is is sort of this presumption. And it's not actually true. It's like a religion. Yeah. Religious kind of faith. Yeah. And where I think they got things right, okay, generally speaking, is that the Constitution as a document is like afraid of concentrated power. That's like the foundational baked in, like it's the theory is we need to like disperse power a little bit because you literally do not want one dude having all the power.

1:00:13David Sirota:Okay, I think that's probably like good call. Like you got it right. Where they didn't get it right, at least for the modern era, is the presumption that the branches would protect their own power, that whether it's the courts or whether it's Congress, that the presumption was that they would jealously – people in those institutions would jealously guard their power as an institution. And I think in the modern era, what we've seen is that actually the institution, especially when it comes to the Republicans, the institution that is supreme for the Republicans is the Republican Party and not the presidency or the Congress or the courts.

1:00:56David Sirota:And so no matter where you are in any of those institutions, the Congress, the courts, the presidency, you're serving the larger institution, which is the Republican Party. And so, yes, you're willing to like be a judge. The Supreme Court is constantly deferring to executive power when a Republican is in the executive office. Congress is constantly deferring to the Trump administration when the Republicans control it. And I do think your point, Crystal, is so important that that after the Iraq war, the Congress kind of figured out like, hey, instead of taking tough votes to stop anything, we can just not vote at all.

1:01:37David Sirota:Like, it's actually easier for us to not vote at all, because who knows when any kind of vote is going to come back to bite? Maybe maybe it's the next election cycle, but maybe it's like three election cycles from now. So they haven't wanted to vote. And I think that's like a really dangerous situation. Like it not everything was better in the past, but it was better, I think, when Congress felt an institutional prerogative to fight with the executive branch over who gets to decide things, because that creates like power and countervailing power, which is supposed to create some kind of balance.

1:02:13Which is a really good argument for getting rid of the filibuster, to be honest. Totally. What happens with that? And I wanted to ask the war powers, the intelligence community, and even just thinking about Watergate, all that goes into it. When you hear, like as someone on the right, when you hear federal society world talk about unitary executive theory, a lot of what you hear is it's about the growth of the federal bureaucracy. The argument, I think charitably, their argument would be that the sprawling federal bureaucracy needs to come under the power of the democratically elected president.

1:02:51And the example I always use with Ryan when we kind of get into debates about this is you wouldn't want, given the revolving door, like an ExxonMobil executive or an ExxonMobil just regular staffer coming into the EPA and under a climate concerned president making decisions that are undermining the decision of the president or the will of the president or the policy of the president. So I was going to ask David, like, how you see the way that this has been intentionally set up and designed to tackle those kind of different arenas where executive power is concerned. There's war power, but there's also bureaucracy, but then there's also the intelligence community.

1:03:33It's kind of a tangled mess. I was curious to get your take on that.

1:03:36David Sirota:It's a great set of questions. And look, I think, let me preface this by saying, I think the Democrats, if they ever take back the presidency, I think one of the big questions is, okay, all this power has been concentrated in the White House. Do you use that power or do you use your power in office to not use it or relinquish it? Right. And I don't think it's an acceptable outcome to have where we're in this pattern where Republicans use all the executive power that's there in an aggressive way and grab even more executive power. And then Democrats get in office and either spend their time not using that power or actually relinquishing it.

1:04:15David Sirota:Like that's a ratchet effect. That's bad. I think when it comes to domestic policy, the example that you laid out, look, I think that the question over whether a president with a mandate has the power to do what they have promised voters to do is at the heart in part of the democracy crisis. Like when I hear that term democracy crisis, part of what I hear and what I think about is presidents get into office. I think it's the Democrats often get into office and then don't really make an effort to really deliver on their promises. That shreds the social contract. That harms people's belief that democracy matters and ultimately sows the kind of disillusionment that someone like Donald Trump takes advantage of and says, I will get in and I will use all the power to deliver everything I am promising.

1:05:08David Sirota:Now, I don't think Donald Trump's actually done that. I think he's betrayed a lot of what he promised. The war is a good example of that. But I think that's like the dynamic we're in. And I think, but I guess I would say this. I think there's like a middle ground between the Democrats not really using executive power and being deferential to the quote unquote norms. and Donald Trump so aggressively using executive power that it's like sort of completely unprecedented. And I think in some cases, you know, extrajudicial, extra constitutional, right? Like, I'll give you, let me give you like one random example.

1:05:46David Sirota:Like, I think of the Obama presidency and I think, okay, here's a person who used aggressively in an unprecedented way executive power to prosecute the drone war, to assert the right to put American citizens on a kill list, right? Like that's a really, really, really extreme view of executive authority, right? To extrajudicially execute American citizens, right? Okay. I also think of the Obama administration not using existing unchallenged executive authority to change IRS regulations to close one of the biggest and most egregious tax loopholes on the books, the private equity tax loophole. I think of the Obama administration not using executive authority to require Fortune 500 SEC regulated companies to disclose their dark money spending, something that the Obama administration could have done.

1:06:40David Sirota:So my point is, is that I think there's like a middle ground here where Democrats get into office and use the existing unchallenged executive authority in ways that don't have to go beyond the Constitution, but are there for the taking. Now, one asterisk on this very quickly, which is I do think actually Joe Biden tried to do some of this at the agency level, like the FTC, the CFPB. And I think what's important to remember is that the opposition to that agenda, you know, antitrust enforcement, et cetera, et cetera, will very quickly switch sides on their views of executive power when it's not their executive.

1:07:22David Sirota:Right. I mean, it was like the concert, like the Chamber of Commerce, some Republicans were marching into court saying, you know, Joe Biden has no right to to use the FTC or the CFPB in the way he's using it. And you're like, you guys are like the unitary executive party. Like like and I think this gets to the to the core of a problem here. It was like, you know, we're talking on the eve of the no kings protest. My question for everyone is, OK, do you not want a king or do you just not want the king that's not your king? Right. Like, let's really get to the issue here and let's really be honest about what each side actually wants.

1:07:57David Sirota:Do you do you not want kings or do you only not like the fact that it's not your king? I mean, I'm like, to be honest, I mean, I don't want a king, but like I'm torn on this question of like what ultimately needs to be done. I do think that at the center of this, again, I go back to it, the democracy crisis. You're totally right. If a president gets elected promising climate policy and then is stuck with an EPA that's implementing ExxonMobil's agenda, right, like that is a that's not just an executive power executive branch problem. That's a democracy problem because the president has promised and gotten elected on those issues.

1:08:38Yeah. Well, I mean, FDR is a great example here. I mean, in some ways, it's kind of unavoidable to not just view the tools in like in the in theoretical terms of like this tool is good and that one's bad. I think it's kind of unavoidable to look at the content. You know, is the content of what is being done here good or bad? Right. Some of FDR's things were really bad, actually. But a lot of them on the economic front were very good and they were very popular. And they were in accordance with the will of the people, which the Supreme Court up until he threatened them with court packing was effectively blocking.

1:09:16So, you know, it's it is a little bit tricky when you get down to it. And also, of course, you raise the prospect very much of like, OK, well, if Republicans are throwing out the rules, doing whatever they want, and then Democrats are like, we're just going to stay within these boundaries, then that's an asymmetric fight. So let me let me add there.

1:09:34David Sirota:Yeah, go ahead. There's an interesting question about the independent agencies that's coming down the pike right now in the Supreme Court. Yes. And for those who don't know, there are a set of agencies that aren't just like other executive branch. Like the Department of Homeland Security, HHS, those are normal, regular, non-independent executive branch agencies. The president has total hiring and firing power over them. There are certain regulatory agencies like the Federal Trade Commission that were designed to be slightly more insulated from the political cycles where the commissioners have five-year terms.

1:10:10David Sirota:It's harder to fire them. And the Trump administration is trying to say that Trump can fire members of these independent agencies. And there's really like a constitutional question, right? They're trying to use the Constitution to supersede the idea that such these kinds of agencies can even exist. And this is where I get the idea that the president gets elected and wants to implement policy and therefore needs to hire and fire. But I also think what's dangerous here is that the Congress and previous presidents have set up these particular agencies deliberately to be independent. And my point is, if you want to argue that that's bad, right, you want to argue, OK, an independent FTC is bad, pass new legislation to change the independence of the FTC.

1:11:06David Sirota:Don't start making constitutional arguments that say the Congress is not allowed to create independent agencies. That's where I think we get into, like, when we're talking about a king. It's like if you want to make the small d democratic argument that the SEC or the FTC are out of control and not letting presidents implement policies that they campaigned on, then pass legislation to change the structure of those agencies. Don't start making a unitary executive argument that says one line in the Constitution, Article 2, means Congress is simply never allowed to create these kinds of agencies. I mean, I kind of think in a lot of ways those independent agencies, their independence has served the purpose that they were laid out, that they're supposed to be slightly insulated from the whims of this or that election because they are they're supposed to be more sort of empirical in their application.

1:12:04David Sirota:But let's like let's have that debate rather than saying, yeah, these are not allowed. These are basically illegal. I mean, if we're going to have an authoritarian leader, I want one that's a lot better than the ones we've been getting lately. I'm looking at, you know, I'm looking at China like, oh, they seem pretty smart over there. I mean, if we're going to have no freedom of speech here either, I don't know. Maybe. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the problem, right? It's like, well, we got a good we got a good king who makes good decisions. And, you know, four years later, you're not you probably aren't going to get it.

1:12:32David Sirota:Like, I think that's the theory of the Constitution. Like, like, like, like for every good king you're going to have, you're going to have a really a bunch of really bad ones. Well, let me let me ask you about this. And this is some some new news that is pretty interesting. Trump, according to The Wall Street Journal, told Inner Circle some mass deportation policies went too far. President directs a new approach, as some advisers believe immigration is no longer as strong a political issue for him. He's seeking to lower the profile of his mass deportation effort, has directed his top advisors to adopt a new approach on one of the central campaign promises.

1:13:08They go on to say in conversations with top advisors and his wife, Melania, Trump has become convinced that some of his administration's deportation policies went too far. Voters don't like the term mass deportation. And he's told them he wants to see more attention on arresting bad guys and less chaos in American cities, according to people familiar with the matter. Now, I think a lot of caveats, right? We'll see what the actual actions are. We will say there hasn't been another like city invasion like we saw in Minneapolis. And to bring this back to, you know, to your reporting here in Master Plan, you know, it looks very clearly like the mass protests and mass resistance in Chicago and Minneapolis and other states and countries in L.A.

1:13:48and other states and cities across the country. This succeeded. You know, it worked as a check. So Congress may have laid down. The Supreme Court laid out the red carpet for this, you know, bullshit, cruel and unusual bullshit. And but the people really, you know, rose up and made it very made it very difficult and created a lot of public awareness where they're right that the politics of this have completely shifted since Trump came back in office. So even as they've consolidated in all this power in the executive branch and even as this president and his cronies seem to act like they're never going to have to face voters again, which is kind of scary.

1:14:26How much of a check do the people still serve, you know, for Democratic accountability on the unitary executive?

1:14:33David Sirota:It's a great question. I am heartened by by the news this morning. I will say I do think that it's not a coincidence that Trump initially pulled the deployment in Minneapolis back when Democrats finally started talking about cutting off funding. I do think that's a little part of this. That's a great point. I do think that like Congress's power of the purse. But why did Congress do that? Exactly. Because they were under pressure from the base. Exactly. It wasn't just, you know, nowhere. They didn't want to do it. That's right. You're totally right. So it's like public pressure on Congress to use its actual power, its unchallenged power of the power of the purse.

1:15:19David Sirota:Ultimately, all of that colludes to back a president office, at least momentarily. I should mention, I think this is important, another important lesson when it comes to the power of the purse for the Iran war, that public pressure on Congress to not just pass resolutions or try to pass resolutions of disapproval of the war, but to actually defund the war is going to be incredibly, incredibly important. Like this idea that the Democrats can can say I'm against the war, but I'm going to vote for the 200 billion dollar supplemental for the war is a lot of nonsense. And everyone should be focused really on that specific thing that the Democrats trying to carve out this like middle ground.

1:16:00David Sirota:Like, you know, I can be against the war, but I don't want to, quote unquote, undermine the troops by defunding the war. That is a nonsense position. So I guess it's to say the more pressure there is in public, the more it will create a more fortified opposition in Congress and the more I think Donald Trump will be constrained. Now, I do think, ultimately, if Trump wants to continue seriously illegal, unconstitutional, and wildly unpopular policies, he can. And ultimately, we have to mention it, like, the question of impeachment should be real. Like I think this – ultimately we are – I think we're headed towards this question, especially on the Iran war, of if he never comes to Congress for a declaration of war, there is no explicit authorization.

1:17:00David Sirota:And this war drags beyond the War Powers Act's 60 to 90-day time threshold. There is a big question of like what to do. And what I worry about is like if the Congress actually passes the war supplemental bill, is that interpreted legally and certainly within the administration as the authorization they need? In other words, is just a funding bill explicitly for the war? Does that become the Iran wars Gulf of Tonkin resolution? And if it does, then you've taken a legal tool off the table. Yeah. I don't know if you guys saw Scott Jennings doing his thing on CNN yesterday. And I can't remember who he was fighting with.

1:17:48But they got into this fight over whether this was a war or not. And he said, America hasn't fought a war since World War II. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

1:17:58David Sirota:I mean, that's where we are. It's a military incursion. Yeah, and Iraq was, and Afghanistan was, and Vietnam was. I mean, it's like, you've got to be kidding. And whoever was, I wish I could give credit to him because off the top of my head, I'm forgetting who it was. But he was like, I think the veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan would have something to say about whether they were sent to fight and die in a war or not. So, you know, it's interesting orwellian abuse of language. It's so interesting that you bring this up. There was a debate inside of the Reagan administration that we uncovered in our reporting for Masterplan in which it was John Roberts as a young lawyer.

1:18:38David Sirota:It was over whether to classify the Lebanon military operation and the Grenada military operation, both initially conducted without congressional authorization, whether to allow it to be classified as a war for purposes of providing veterans benefits and the like, war combat, war service benefits to the soldiers who were in that. And it was a debate over, well, if we say they were wars and we didn't get a congressional authorization for a war, how to – like it's sort of a legal gray area. And I think what's – I bring it up only to say, look, these issues have been debated before inside of the executive branch, at least in like a serious way.

1:19:25David Sirota:Like it was interesting to see John Roberts taking the idea that Congress has war-making authority. Like that was a serious thing. I think we're so far away from that now where it's just presumed that Congress doesn't really have in any real way war making authority. And I just go back to this idea that really ultimately what we're learning is the only real power that Congress has. There may be a line in the Constitution to declare war. The only real power it has here is the power of the purse. Like I just I know it's like it's so important to underscore. David, so if you're saying that democracy is the antidote to this master plan, well, that seems like something that we have to solve them.

1:20:13David Sirota:We've got to get rid of democracy. Where does the SAVE Act fall into this master plan in terms of, you know, depressing votes, making it more difficult to vote? What is your reaction to the current SAVE plan? Do you think it will pass? If Congress actually, the democratically elected representatives of Congress actually pass it, is the question too. I know, I know. Well, look, I think the, when we use the term master plan, what we're really talking about is there's a handful of powerful interests, oligarchs, billionaires, et cetera, corporations, for a very long time. If you're one of those powers, you look at democracy as the problem, right?

1:20:57David Sirota:Because you need increasingly unpopular policies to maintain your wealth and power, to maintain a concentration of wealth and power in a small group of players. One way you do that, that was season one of Master Plan. You legalize corruption so that the elections can be bought, so that it is less a one-person, one-vote democracy and more a$1, one-vote democracy, so that the election choices, no matter what they are, deliver the unpopular policies you need. The second thing you do is you try to concentrate power in one person's hands, the president, so that the president – so you don't have to deal with a Congress.

1:21:42David Sirota:You don't really have to deal with the courts. Like that's hard to do. Congress members have to go back to their districts every two years and deal with actual people. So part of the way to subvert democracy is to concentrate power. The final part of this is to simply make it harder, if not impossible, for people to actually even vote. Right? I think, and I think that's, you know, what the SAVE Act represents. And I think it's easy to like presume that the motive here is just like, you know, Dr. Evil motives, right? Like it's just people like the people pushing this just are evil because they want to be evil.

1:22:21David Sirota:No, it's actually a motive of self-interest. We want to maintain power knowing that the policies that maintain our power are unpopular. So we have to do all of these things to essentially keep that power because if we allow an actually flourishing democracy to operate, we're not going to get the unpopular policies that we want. I mean, Lewis Powell in the Powell memo in season one, a master plan. I mean, he lays this out. I mean, literally like the problem that the conservative movement saw at the time was the government has become too responsive to the people like the government is passing all the Ralph Nader is getting all these things passed that we the oligarchy do not like.

1:23:09David Sirota:And the problem is that the government has become too responsive to what the public wants. And I think ultimately this question of we originally struck a balance, like the Constitution was supposed to strike a balance, like you don't want the hot passions of every whim that the public wants to be legislated at any time because that can get out of – that's mob rule. So there needs to be like some small R Republican checks on that problem, representative democracy. But I think we've swung so far to the other side that we're now at the stage of talking about making it harder for people just to cast votes.

1:23:49David Sirota:I mean, that's really how far this plan has gone. David, where can people find Masterplan Season 2 and where can they support you guys over at Lever News? Thanks for asking. Go onto your phone right now. Pull up your podcast app. Whichever one is your favorite app. Just type in Masterplan. Subscribe. go listen to episode one. If you don't have a podcast app, just go to masterplanpodcast.com. All the episodes will be there. And we are The Lever, so you can find all of our reporting at levernews.com. And just a huge thank you to Breaking Points and Breaking Points's audience for always being such great supporters of our work and letting your audience know about our work.

1:24:30David Sirota:We are independent investigative journalists. It's not easy to get our work out there, but you guys are a huge help and we really appreciate it. Well, we appreciate you. You're a master podcaster, Serrata. Your podcasts are incredible narratives. True, they are really excellent. The storytelling is so good. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Great to see you as always, David. Great to see you guys. Thanks again. All right, that'll do it for us here in the first half of the show. If you want to see the second half, you all know the deal. Emily, where do they go? Breakingpoints.com, of course. Where else?

1:25:04David Sirota:Of course. Where else? They freed the Breaking Points 26, though. So sorry, guys. They've been liberated. They're taking Cuba with Ryan. That's right. One last thing before we get over to the premium section, though. Thank you to everybody who submitted questions for Sagar for the Joe Ken interview. I know he was going over them, Griffin. I'm sure you dug into them as well. And he was saying, like, there's actually a lot of really good questions here. So I really appreciate that input. And if you want to be able to, you know, contribute to such things in the future, BreakingPoints.com. That's how you do it.

1:25:35David Sirota:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Start doing our job for us. Really good stuff. Yes, please. Pay us money and then also do our job for us. We're going to be doing a lot more of those. How is this pitch going? Yes, it's going perfect. In all credit to Sagar, he created a massive list of his own questions for Joe Kent, and then he got great audience questions. And now there's a great synergy happening behind the scenes. Yes, indeed. Yes. All right. We'll see you all in the second half. Hey, if you liked that video, hit the like button or leave a comment below. It really helps get the show to more people.

1:26:09And if you'd like to get the full show, ad-free, and in your inbox every morning, you can sign up at BreakingPoints.com.

1:26:15David Sirota:That's right. Get the full show. Help support the future of independent media at BreakingPoints.com. Get a full body reset anywhere you go with Dr. Thiel's Magnesium Spray. It's a concentrated magnesium blend of pure Epsom and Dead Sea salts, all bundled up in a convenient on-the-go bottle. A few quick sprays will relax your body and mind and keep you feeling recharged all day long. It's wellness you can feel, and you can find it in your local bath aisle. Dr. Teal's. Yep, you needed that. Peace to the planet. Charlamagne Tha God here, and listen. We are back. The Black Effect Podcast Festival is back in Atlanta on April 25th at Pullman Yard.

1:26:55David Sirota:Yeah. And the full lineup is nuts. We got the Grits and Eggs podcast, Deontay Kyle and Big Ice Cup Cat. We got Club 520 with Jeff Teague and the gang. Don't call me white, girl. Mona will be there. Keep it positive, sweetie, with Crystal Renee. We got Reality with the King with Carlos King. And yes, Drink Champ will be in the building. Plus, you know, we're going to have a lot of guests. So you need to join us. And we got the Black Effect Marketplace, the picture podcast, and everything you expect from the Black Effect Podcast Festival. Tickets are on sale right now. Go get yours at blackeffect.com slash podcast festival.

1:27:30David Sirota:Don't play yourself, okay? Pull up.

1:27:36David Sirota:Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia, and I'm kicking off a brand new season of my podcast, Math & Magic, Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. Math & Magic takes you behind the scenes of the biggest businesses and industries while sharing insights from the smartest minds in marketing. Coming up this season on Math & Magic, CEO of Liquid Death, Mike Cesario. People think that creative ideas are like these light bulb moments that happen when you're in the shower. Or it's really like a stone sculpture. You're constantly just chipping away and refining. Take-Two Interactive CEO Strauss Selnick and our own chief business officer, Lisa Coffey.

1:28:11David Sirota:Listen to Math & Magic on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.