3/5/26: Trump Preps Forever War, Hegseth Rages At Media, CIA Kurdish Psyop, Congress Backs Iran War

17:36Krystal Ball:We, of course, never target civilian targets, but we're taking a look and investigating that. Red tie in front.

17:43Saagar Enjeti:Just on the basis that with the information you would have, your reconnaissance abilities, ability to gather information. I mean, it's several days on now. So is there any clarity on whose munition this was?

17:55Krystal Ball:We're investigating it.

17:57Saagar Enjeti:We are investigating it. And again, to make clear, if you look at the map that was there and you plot the scroll right there, it's literally right in the cluster zone. Obviously, I mean, Israelis, I've already seen their own propaganda. They're like, it wasn't us. But if it was us, it would have been fine because it was an IRGC base. In fact, there are some questions here because apparently it was near an older IRGC base as to whether this was updated intelligence. But this is exactly the problem. I mean, who knows? put together that strike package. Was it AI, you know, that was used to say plot all of the known places and then feed that into the military?

18:32Saagar Enjeti:The fact that they're not ruling it out immediately, I will tell you, having covered many of these things, that's a problem. That's a big, big problem.

18:38Krystal Ball:So this is the total Israelification of the United States of America. I mean, this is exactly the type of, to the extent that Israel would ever get pressed on, you just murdered a bunch of children. You just murdered a bunch of patients in a hospital, whatever. When it would actually become a problem for them, this is what they would say. Oh, we're going to investigate it. We'll get back to you. And then do they ever investigate it? Do they ever get back to you? Let alone are there ever any consequences for anyone who was part of that decision making? You know the answer to that. And we can put the next piece up on the screen because we now have more reporting about exactly how this strike went down.

19:11Krystal Ball:And again, the Israelfication of the U.S., it was apparently a double tap strike. And you guys know what these are intended to do. You hit an area once. This area happened to be a girls' school with children you know, age roughly like seven to 12 who were murdered. Okay. Then people gather, they, you know, they get the survivors, parents rush in, first responders to try to help, to try to, you know, staunch the bleeding and help anyone who can be rescued. And then once they've gathered, what do you do? You hit them again. That's apparently, according to reporting here from Middle East Eye, that is what happened in this case.

19:45Krystal Ball:And I just want you all to remember that five seconds ago, this president and this whole regime was talking about how much they care for the Iranian people. They want the Iranian people to be free. They want the Iranian people to throw off their oppressors. They stand with the protesters in the streets. And now here we are murdering their little girls. And, you know, furthermore to the Israelification of this war, what appears to have happened is initially there were, you know, these precision strikes that took out a bunch of the Iranian leadership, including assassinating the Ayatollah. And they were hoping that would just lead to some sort of regime collapse, which I think also was the hope when Israel initially went into Gaza, because we talked about it all the time.

20:29Krystal Ball:And that didn't happen. So now what are they doing? They're just carpet bombing Tehran. They're using fewer precision munitions, more just dumb bombs to drop on a location and cause severe damage. And there is an irony here as well, because some of the regime's biggest opponents, the Iranian regime's biggest opponents are in Tehran. Like that's where the, you know, more secular, more highly educated, more liberal, like the, you know, the various protest movements have largely started in Tehran. There are other, you know, areas of resistance to the Iranian government as well within the country, but Tehran is a hotbed.

21:02Krystal Ball:And that's the place where the most death and destruction and chaos, which Pete Hegseth is out there bragging about, that's where they really focused these bombing campaigns?

21:11Saagar Enjeti:Look, like I said, we don't know if it was us or not. I can just say, having covered the Pentagon, usually these investigations and all, if it's not us, they usually say pretty quickly. And if it is, it drags on for a while before somebody does eventually admit it. And it will be a gigantic sandal. And it should be. And I saw some of these in Afghanistan, in Iraq, covered, do you remember that hospital that was struck in Afghanistan? I covered that entire thing. It was a total nightmare. A lot of the initial statements that came out from the military were totally not true. A lot of the investigation later that followed up, it was horrific what actually ended up happening.

21:45Saagar Enjeti:I really hope that it wasn't us. However, part of the danger is that between us and Israel, it's going to be a big, it's like, are we going to just come out and say, actually, it was them? And then they're very happy to say, actually, no, it was us. And somebody did it. And initially, there was some Israeli claims. They're like, oh, it was a failed IRGC missile and all of that. There's no evidence now currently to suggest any of that. But this will be a major, major hit to the prestige of the U.S. military. And I mean, even if it was Israel, it was done in a joint conjunction with U.S.-Israeli strike, there's a lot of complicity that comes in that too, for not just selling the weapons, for supporting or being part and attached to something like that.

22:25Saagar Enjeti:And it does show you even the dangers of a so-called precision bombing campaign, which Professor Robert Pape has really been warning about.

22:33Krystal Ball:I mean, between it being a dot on the map of the strike locations and the fact that they will not say that it was not us. I mean, it seems pretty, there are two suspects, Israel or the U.S. And, you know, the fact that we're not denying it at this point, I think, makes it pretty clear what ultimately happened here. And your point about AI, I think, is a really important one, just to pause on for a moment. Part of why Gaza was so deadly and so horrifying is because it was the first, you know, AI-enabled, ultimately, genocide. And the amount of target generation that was created is what helped to enable the death and destruction in Gaza.

23:12Krystal Ball:And now you have, you know, they're still using Claude. They're still using Anthropic, even though they're having some whole spat over that. And, you know, Anthropic, as much as they have this brand that they've publicly created, oh, we're the good guys and we care about humanity, blah, blah, blah. Well, that's the AI that is being used to generate strike packages and presumably to help create the level of death and destruction and the deadly nature of what's going on here. You know, the estimates are at this point somewhere around a thousand Iranians who have been killed, although it's very difficult to know precisely what the numbers are for them.

23:45Saagar Enjeti:Almost 30 years together, four kids and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments. We know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast Between Us with me, Heather Dubrow. And me, Terry Dubrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids. The unfiltered, behind-closed-doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about. And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok.

24:24Saagar Enjeti:Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here. And plenty of, did they just say that moments? Listen to Between Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast, what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects? In the case of the right fit, Ella explores movement, confidence, and belonging, and learns that not all strength looks the same. Tennis is powerful.

25:01Saagar Enjeti:Fast, focused, and kind of fun. Strong swing, Ella! This Women's History Month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. A thoughtful episode about identity, courage, and helping kids discover where they truly belong. So it's okay if I'm not quite sure what my thing is yet. It's absolutely okay. when and if you do find a sport you love, you may be the next Gertrude, Tony, or Venus. At Curiosity Cove. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

25:43Krystal Ball:or wherever you get your podcasts.

25:46Saagar Enjeti:I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I was like, hi, dad. And just when I said that,

25:52Krystal Ball:my mom comes out of the kitchen and she says, I have some cookies and milk. This is badass convict. Right.

26:01Saagar Enjeti:Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. Yeah. On the Senior Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation and the power of second chances the entire season two is now available to binge featuring powerful conversations with guests like tiffany adish johnny knoxville and more i'm an alcoholic and without this trouble i'm gonna die open your free iheart radio app search the cito show and listen now

26:46Saagar Enjeti:So let's then turn to what I thought was one of the most single disgraceful utterances by a U.S. Secretary of Defense ever. Here is Secretary Hegseth, who is chastising the media for covering the deaths of American soldiers and not appropriately cheerleading the war on enough. I couldn't believe it whenever I saw this happen live. Let's take a listen. This is what the fake news misses. We've taken control of Iran's airspace and waterways without boots on the ground. We control their fate. But when a few drones get through or tragic things happen, it's front page news. I get it. The press only wants to make the president look bad, but try for once to report the reality.

27:32Saagar Enjeti:The terms of this war will be set by us at every step. And so he is saying that the fake news does their part by trying to make the president look bad because some tragic things happen. Can you imagine a more disgraceful statement where he is chastising us for covering the deaths of American soldiers, American soldiers, by the way, who it appears were not in a properly fortified tactical operations center, who by their own admission, I mean, one of these women who was killed in the strike had apparently spoken to her husband, according to his own interviews, about how she was worried about what was going on.

28:08Saagar Enjeti:She was working here in the tactical operations center. And what they had done is that they were fighting like the last war. So they put up these walls that were around the operations center, which were designed for suicide bomb attacks. But anybody who has watched literally anything about the now four-year-long war in Ukraine knows that that's not how it was going to come, any sort of attack. It was going to be by a suicide drone. And that is exactly what happened, which appeared to have a direct strike directly on here, which raises a whole number of questions. Number one, why was there no counter-drone stuff that was even prepared?

28:36Saagar Enjeti:Right now, the U.S. military is scrambling and is going to buy counter-drone technology from the Ukrainians. Not sure why we have to buy it since we're the ones who paid for it, but okay. So we're going to buy all of this counter-drone technology stuff from the Ukrainians, which means that we didn't do any studying. We actually didn't prepare properly for a lot of the bases. By Donald Trump's own admission, they have said that they were not prepared for some of the strikes that were on the Gulf. So that means there wasn't an active planning that happened inside. And now six of these Americans are dead.

29:04Saagar Enjeti:And what's worst about it is that they keep saying, oh, that's just the first of many to come. They keep saying, oh, more casualties. Could be more. I mean, God only knows. Are there more that they haven't told us about? Hope not, right? Having covered this for a long time, usually they just come out within 24 hours. But at the very least, they're expecting more. And the fact that they're expecting and preparing the public for more and this is the way that they want to cover it is beyond disgraceful. Beyond disgraceful. So let's, you know, they don't want us to cover apparently these troops because it's bad for morale.

29:36Saagar Enjeti:It's not our job to do morale. That's not our job at all. Let's put some of these up here on the screen. The Pentagon has now ID'd six of the soldiers who were killed in the Kuwait attack. Many of them were attached to this Army Reserve unit out of Des Moines, Iowa. And actually from their ranks, you can see that many of these were very senior U.S. Army personnel. But the one that sticks with me is this one, Sergeant Declan Cody. He was 20 years old. He was a student. He was a student who was studying information systems, who was taking classes online from Kuwait. And again, a member of the U.S.

30:16Saagar Enjeti:Army Reserve. And I want this to also show everybody, too. These are people who never, I mean, look, they volunteered. I'm not stepping away from that. But it shows you the problem of our overextended empire is that our bases have to be staffed by U.S. Army Reservists because we don't even have enough troops to be able to staff all these bases, even in a potential active war zone. And here you have a 20-year-old kid who had his entire life ahead of him, who was born, and I just can't get away from this, four to five years after 9-11, who just perished in another American war in the Middle East.

30:52Saagar Enjeti:How does that not break your heart? I've covered so many of these over the years, written obituaries for kids younger than me. I wrote my first obituary for a kid who was younger than me nine years ago who stepped on an IED in Iraq and know so many people who were wounded or even families of the people who were killed who were over there. And now we have another one. And the Secretary of Defense is telling us that it is, basically, this is 2002, 2000 era BS. Freedom isn't free. The only way to support our troops and mourn our dead is to support the war, is to support the president. And there is nothing less patriotic actually than that.

31:25Saagar Enjeti:And we're not falling for this bullshit again. We are not falling for this bullshit again. I just think it's so, it's not just about disgrace. If you ask me, there hasn't been enough media coverage actually of these people. Because we should learn the cost. We talked about the girls. They're dead, okay? Little girls are dead. Who knows who killed them? Now these people, they're dead. I mean, these American soldiers are dead at the decision point of the United States president and of the Israeli president. And their blood, it's on our leadership. And we should be able to say that without being denigrated as cowards or anti-war, anti-American.

32:05Saagar Enjeti:It's anti-American to mourn the deaths of a 20-year-old kid who was in Kuwait. It's just, it really, really gets me.

32:12Krystal Ball:It reminds so much of how they were trying to, during the Iraq war, hide the coffins coming home. They didn't want photographs. They didn't want pictures of that because, yeah, they don't want people to actually grapple with the cost. And, you know, the elites of this country, it's not their sons and daughters, by and large, who go and fight and die in these wars. Barron's not going to be headed over there anytime soon. And they seem to view all of this like it's some kind of game. Or a TV show.

32:38Saagar Enjeti:Yeah.

32:38Krystal Ball:TV show is, I mean, obviously we have a reality TV president. But Pete Hegseth, too, is primarily a TV personality. And he's a man who is clearly out of his depth and he knows that. And so he has adopted this persona that he thinks makes him look like a tough guy. And he's adopted these sort of like habits of of discourse that he's drawn from, you know, what he thinks Trump would say. and Trump's the ultimate, you know, the ultimate daddy figure for the MAGA right. And so he thinks that by lashing out at the fake news media, trying to make the president look good, look bad rather, that he's going to look like a big man.

33:16Krystal Ball:He's going to look like he's doing the right thing here. And, you know, I mean, this whole presser where he's talking about we're going to rain down death and destruction. He's playing a character. He's decided he wants to adopt this persona of like a comic book villain. And that's his whole approach to this because he does not know what he's doing. We were before this. I mean, at the very beginning of the administration, we're reporting about how the Pentagon is total chaos under him. Like he has no business being in this position. And what a disgrace that now we have American service members dead.

33:49Krystal Ball:We have Iranian civilians dead. We have people dead throughout the entire region.

33:54Saagar Enjeti:Kuwaiti soldiers who've been killed. Absolutely. Guards, random personnel, airport guys.

33:59Krystal Ball:I mean, the Israelis are blowing up the police stations in Iran because they want to foment chaos and civil war and some sort of uprising. And the president of the United States cannot even give a straight answer about what the hell the goal is and why we're doing it. Just think about that. And, you know, I keep coming back to some of the emails that reveal the way that these people just do not see others below the elite class as being truly human. So they're happy to throw your sons and daughters into a meat grinder because for whatever reasons, because Israel pressured us, because I want to look like a big tough guy, because I feel like more of a man when I can send American fighters in potentially to their death.

34:41Krystal Ball:And it's sick. It's depraved. And that's exactly what's going on here.

34:45Saagar Enjeti:I want to call now for a video which was put out by the White House where they literally edited war that is currently happening with an intro from a video game just to show you the entertainment value. Let's take a listen.

35:07Saagar Enjeti:So there you go. They're literally tweeting out, that's an actual video. We're released by the White House of the United States of America with the title, Courtesy of the Red, White, and Blue. Country music lyrics and video games. It's not a game. It's not a game to the family of a 20-year-old. It's not a game to a mother of two. And think about, you know, some of these people. You read their stories in this NBC News article. They're like, oh, she loved gardening, you know? And these people are dead. Not to mention some of these girls and others. In Iowa, they're mourning them. You know, the university this kid went to, they're talking about, oh, he was so great, loved his work.

35:42Saagar Enjeti:Is it his father and sister talking about this? His sister was talking about how upset she was, thinking about how scared he was near the end. People shouldn't have to think that. Or if their lives are going to be on the line. And everyone's like, oh, they volunteered for it. I mean, look, yeah, I think they volunteered, you know, with the theory, at least I think, the theory that their lives would not be fodder for video games and for, you know, egomaniacal power plays or being jerked around by Israel or weird religious holy wars. Exactly. And so that is the ultimate, you know, screw you, I think, to an all-volunteer military force.

36:18Krystal Ball:Yeah. And look, the military brass, the chair of the Joint Chiefs was warning. Like, it's not like they didn't know, right? I mean, we're not rocket scientists over here. And we've been tracking this problem with the stockpiles of weaponry and interceptors in particular. You know, this drone technology has been used extensively in Ukraine, these Shahid drones. And so this was all known. It was all very predictable. And yet, you know, these individuals, these service members were in completely unprotected in like a triple wide trailer. And the U.S. rushes into this thing because of whatever basket of weird reasons, many of which we still don't even know.

37:05Krystal Ball:But with this, yeah, this holy war, you know, justification now increasingly coming out. And of course, Hexat's got his Crusader cross tattoo, et cetera, et cetera. Trump, who knows what's in the Epstein files and what his and the money he's taken from Miriam Maddelson and what all is going on in the background. And he feels like such a big, tough guy after Venezuela. And all of that fuels now us being pushed into this conflict that the American people do not support. And so, yeah, it's sad. These individuals trusted the American government to take their lives seriously and to not risk their lives without a good reason.

37:38Krystal Ball:And ultimately, you know, they were betrayed.

37:40Saagar Enjeti:Yeah.

37:41Krystal Ball:That's the bottom line. Exactly.

37:42Saagar Enjeti:And I think everybody should be able to say that. Almost 30 years together, four kids, and some of reality TV's most unforgettable moments, we know a thing or two about living life out loud. We're taking you behind the scenes in our new podcast, Between Us, with me, Heather Dubrow. And me, Terry Dubrow. Between Us isn't about perfect lighting or curated Instagram grids. It's the unfiltered, behind-closed-doors conversations you wish you could eavesdrop on. Equal parts smart, funny, and a little bit scandalous. Every week, Heather will bring you an unapologetic take on the headlines, the trends, and the cultural moments everyone's texting about.

38:19Saagar Enjeti:And Terry will deliver insider beauty, health, and wellness insights you won't find on TikTok. Together, we'll tell the stories, spill the secrets, and share the hacks that keep life, marriage, and everything in between feeling fresh and fun. We may live in a gated community, but there's zero gatekeeping here. And plenty of, did they just say that moments? Listen to Between Us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

39:09Saagar Enjeti:introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. A thoughtful episode about identity, courage, and helping kids discover where they truly belong. So it's okay if I'm not quite sure what my thing is yet. It's absolutely okay. When, and if you do find a sport you love, you may be the next Gertrude, Tony, or Venus. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I went and sat on the little ottoman in front of him. I said, hi, dad.

39:51Krystal Ball:And just when I said that, my mom comes out of the kitchen and she says, I have some cookies and milk. This is a badass convict.

40:01Saagar Enjeti:Right. Just finished five years. I'm going to have cookies and milk at mom. On the Sino Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to binge, featuring powerful conversations with guests like Tiffany Adish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this trouble, I'm going to die. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search The Cino Show, and listen now.

40:47Saagar Enjeti:Turning now to some updates on the battlefield. A huge decision leaking out now from Washington. Let's put this up here. on the screen. Do keep some of this in mind that things are fast moving and this itself could be a bit of a change. But what they are reporting is that Trump calls on the Kurds to aid U.S. effort in Iran, quote, offers support. In my opinion, they're dramatically underplaying this because they say, quote, in calls this week to Kurdish minority leaders in Iran and neighboring Iraq, President Trump has offered, quote, extensive U.S. air cover and other backing for anti-regime Iranian Kurds to take over portions of Western Iran.

41:25Saagar Enjeti:This is basically the 2001 Afghanistan model. And this is the closest that we are going to come now so far of an admission about boots on the ground. In fact, Crystal, if you pair some of the fear of those Democratic senators, I believe that this is what it was about. Because just to explain, if you weren't following, the way that it worked is that we had these so-called like special forces advisors that were on the ground with the Northern Alliance. They were calling in airstrikes. We had air cover that would come in, support the army, the CIA. Actually, I believe the CIA officer was the first person who was even killed in the war in Afghanistan.

41:59Saagar Enjeti:So you could see that this is exactly the way that this would happen. We know from some previous reporting already that many of these Kurdish separatist groups inside of Iran have had CIA munitions provided to them now for weeks in addition to Mossad. It would make sense too, because we know from the Mossad and from others, that there was a lot of smuggling to inside of Iran during the protest movement, which would make sense. Now, we also know in northern Iraq, which is where all the Kurds, Kurdistan, as part of that country, that many of these groups, you know, it's like transnational in terms of moving back and forth.

42:30Saagar Enjeti:There's a lot of loyalty, of course, and support from the military. There's a military base. So if there was a U.S. support civil war effort, this is exactly what it would look like. This would, of course, be a direct effort to balkanize and destroy the entire country. That's what you do. This is civil war. This is the Afghanistan, Libya, Syria model. What you do, you pour a bunch of weapons into a group and you basically say, we've got your back. You don't actually have their back as the Kurds, I think, have learned for many years, but you will be a useful tool. Yeah, they probably have. I don't know.

43:00Saagar Enjeti:This time we promise, right? This time. So what we're going to do, give you a bunch of weapons. We'll give you some air cover. We're going to use you as a tool, as a cudgel to basically try to destroy the regime in the interim. Who's going to take that laying down? Oh, Ankara. I'm sure that the Turks will just be like, oh, for sure, we'll allow an independent Kurdistan to happen. Nope, not going to happen. There will be some funneling itself of weapons, perhaps their own use of airstrikes. Everything I'm talking about already happened in Syria, literally, within the last decade. We know that this will happen.

43:28Saagar Enjeti:And then what's going to happen? Well, that's going to inspire some sectarian conflict, which usually goes super well, right, for the United States. We've definitely got a handle on that. A nationalism, let's say, amongst the Iranian population, which is still loyal to the regime. They'll call up young people. It's as if the Iran-Iraq war, one of the bloodiest conflicts in human history, had never happened before. Look at their capacity for suffering, for death, to be able to absorb all of these losses, even whenever we're striking them from the air. So this is not just an effort at regime chain.

44:00Saagar Enjeti:It is an effort at regime collapse, a full-blown insurgency. 92 million people live in this country. So many different popular, Azeris and all these other, you know, who we're all talking right now, they'll get involved. Their proxies and others will funnel weapons and it will look like Syria or Libya, completely collapse, failed state, except with 10x the population, refugees going everywhere, already seeing reports about people trying to leave the country of Iran. Yesterday, somebody was talking to me about this Pakistani faction on their border and their own, you know, funding that we could potentially use as a cudgel there.

44:37Saagar Enjeti:This is a nightmare. I mean, prepare to get acquainted with terms like balokis and Kurds. And now there's a Christian population, Azeris. It's not just one homogenous population who all hate us regardless of what the Trump administration is trying to sell us. This is the most dangerous turn yet. This is the Syria-Libya model. They don't want to declare victory. And I think this is why the Democratic senators were sounding the armed. There is no possibility of some sort of armed incursion where you just give them the weapons where there aren't U.S. special advisors on the ground. That's a boot on the ground, regardless of how they want to define it or not.

45:12Saagar Enjeti:Happened in Afghanistan, happened in Libya, happened in Syria as well. And that's why we just withdrew all of our... Why do you think we had all those bases in Syria for exactly operations like this? So this is... I mean, also, the last thing, this is an absolute confirmation this is going to happen forever. Like, you don't... Six weeks, eight weeks. No, this is a years long commitment at this point if they're going to go down this road. So we don't know. I mean, some sources claiming that it's already happening. Some saying no, that that's fake news. But regardless, from the very top, the president of the United States on the phone with regime change activists saying, oh, we're going to give you air cover.

45:48Saagar Enjeti:That's it. That's a you know, as long as it gets in terms of foreign entanglement.

45:52Krystal Ball:Yeah, there's a lot to learn from this. So you can put B1 up on the screen because initially there were these very certain reports from all of the regime stenographers like the Barak Ravids, etc. that Kurdish forces in Iraq had launched a ground military offensive into Iran, that this was happening. They had crossed the borders. They were in Iran. And we covered before how we had taken out a bunch of these border guards along the border to enable exactly this. So it felt, you know, it seemed credible. And it's exactly the kind of shit that we do all the time and that the Israelis would be interested exactly for this reason to try to collapse the state.

46:25Krystal Ball:This seems to have been, based on what we can tell, put B2 up on the screen, more of a psyop and wish casting than it was an actual reality in terms of facts on the ground, because the leaders of various of these Kurdish factions denied that any of this was happening. So this is from DropSite News, some exclusive reporting from them. They say multiple media reports, including some citing anonymous U.S. officials, have indicated Kurdish militants have now crossed from Iraq into Iran in order to seize Kurdish territory and spark an uprising. The reports follow claims the CIA has been seeking to arm Kurdish fighters to destabilize Iran.

47:00Krystal Ball:Such an incursion remains a future possibility, but well-informed sources tell DropSite News no such evasion has yet to take place. Journalist Alexis Delumi, who is in Syrian and Iraqi Kurdistan reporting for DropSite. Incredible they have this person. Reports that three sources from the Kurdish liberation movement with knowledge of the situation have told him no such invasion is underway and that PJAK, the only Kurdish organization with robust military capacity that is part of the coalition being discussed, is unlikely to make such a move at this moment. Now, what have these reports done? Well, for one thing, they create the idea in the public that you are going to have this uprising, that you have these forces coming in, that there's this ground invasion.

47:47Krystal Ball:And by the way, of course, they don't talk about our direct involvement in any of this, that there's this natural organic uprising. It also makes these Kurdish forces targets for the Iranians. And in fact, there were reports yesterday that the Iranians started bombing some of the Kurdish forces and factions as a result of this reporting, saying that a ground invasion had already begun. All of this is a long way to say there are already multiple PSYOPs that are being operated by our government, by the Israelis, no doubt by the Iranians as well. And so be very, very leery of any of the information that comes out, wait until things are confirmed with evidence because the information warfare is just as thick and just as heavy handed as the actual warfare on the ground.

48:34Saagar Enjeti:That's exactly right. It's very important. But also you can gleam, you can gleam this. What you can gleam is that they want the impression of a civil war to happen, to widen the war, to collapse the regime, to get them afraid inside. None of this is consistent with any of the current statements, like at least that are on the record from the secretary of state, from the vice president. They're like, look, we just want to degrade their capacity. And we would prefer if somebody took over who was better, but we're not going to do very much about it. That's not the same thing. This is, that is not what we are watching all happen in front of our eyes.

49:10Saagar Enjeti:Let's actually take a look now at some of the strikes that are coming out from Tehran from a limited amount of video that we've been able to see. By the way, we should get some better video. We have a couple of international journalists to just crash the Iranian border this morning. But you can see, I mean, this is in broad daylight, just blowing the crap out of buildings.

49:30Krystal Ball:This is a city of what, 10 million people?

49:32Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, millions of people in a highly urban area. There's some reporting I've seen that a large portion of the city has been evacuated. But what you could really take away, I think, from that is that these are, look, again, we don't even know if it's U.S. or if it's Israeli strikes. The U.S. government has already said, oh, my God, so much is happening, we haven't even cut this. Did you notice the Secretary of Defense and General Cain brag? They said, some of you may remember Iraq 2003. We have dropped twice the amount of bombs from 2003 shock and awe. And I was like, wait, we're bragging about that?

50:08Saagar Enjeti:I was like, do we look back on that as a victory? Did anybody at the White House go, do we really want comparisons to shock and awe? So they're telling us you can literally take their own word for it. We've dropped two times the amount of bombs in shock and awe in the middle of Iraq, if you remember what all of that looked like. So remember, again, about censorship and about some of the video, very limited amount that is already coming out. We should hopefully be able to get a little bit more information as some of these international journalists continue to cross into Iran. Let's also, again, just underscore that point.

50:39Saagar Enjeti:Here's a clip from CNN where they're openly saying, hey, we would show you this, but the Israeli government doesn't want us to. Let's take a listen. We're not showing you that because we're not going to show. The Israeli government does not allow us or want us to show where that may have come up, that interceptor. OK, so we're not going to show you that. I mean, thanks for the honesty, I guess. But it does demonstrate. And we've seen this from Trey Yanks, from Jeremy Diamond, now from CNN and others. They're very consistent about, hey, we can't show this to you because the Israeli government won't less.

51:08Saagar Enjeti:In fact, there was a CNN Turk crew, filming crew, who was arrested, detained on camera while they were filming in the middle of Israel. And the Israelis were like, hey, you got to stop. And they like took the camera down and they started taking it. You remember during the 12 day war, they did the same thing when you were showing some of the damage that had already happened. We do know from just from the ballistic missile alerts that there were tons of alerts last night. And I wake up this morning, nothing. There's no video at all. It's like, really? You intercepted all of them? I don't think so.

51:38Saagar Enjeti:And yet that's what the level of war reporting is right now. Now, remember in Gaza, too, that they would often take journalists on a ride and then confiscate or check their footage whenever they were coming out. And they said, you're only allowed to report whatever we tell you. So everyone would be extremely wary of what that looks like.

51:55Krystal Ball:They're still not allowing international journalists inside of Gaza. So, I mean, that, yeah, that's the level of control. And look, it goes without saying, it's crazy how these quote unquote journalists, they just accept this. Like, they don't even feel ashamed when they're telling you, like, oh, we're not going to show this because the Israeli government doesn't want you to. I feel like, I mean, they definitely would feel more sense of upset if it was the American government telling them. If it was Trump, you know, who was saying, oh, you can't film that, they'd be like, screw you. We're going to film it anyway.

52:25Krystal Ball:Press freedom. But when it's the Israeli, oh, we've got to listen to the Israelis. Can't show that, et cetera, et cetera. It's crazy. To that point, let's put B10 actually up on the screen because it's clear that the person who really has the broader plan in mind and is driving the train at this point is Benjamin Netanyahu. So it's very important to pay attention to the Israeli press, to statements from Netanyahu and his, you know, crew of total psychos that are over there in Israel that are driving the show that have their own like, you know, biblical, religious, like blood feud ideas in mind here as well.

53:01Krystal Ball:But in any case, this was an important article from the Financial Times because it has some reporting about the way the Israelis are thinking about this. It says Israel expects weeks-long war against Iran. In other words, not some quick in and out. There was some reporting that Netanyahu was concerned that Trump may have been talking to the Iranians through back channels and had to check in and make sure that there's not any possibility that this war is going to end anytime soon. I'm not sure that those back channels were open anyway, but Netanyahu had to check in and make sure that the war was going to keep going.

53:33Krystal Ball:We need more death, more destruction, more chaos, more refugee crisis, et cetera. In any case, an analyst told the Financial Times, summarizing the Israeli government's position, quote, if we can have a coup, great. If we can have people on the streets, great. If we can have a civil war, great. Israel could not care less about the future or the stability of Iran. That is a point of difference between us and the U.S., I think. Washington is more concerned about nation building and threats to their regional partners. So put that together with the reporting about the at least arming and of these Kurdish factions and trying to push them to invade and spark some sort of a local uprising.

54:19Krystal Ball:And you can see whose plan is in control. Now, I don't know what the Israelis sold Trump. I don't know what Trump is dumb enough to believe in terms of what could be accomplished, whether he really did buy that. If you just take out the Ayatollah, then, you know, they're going to greet us as liberators with flowers in the streets. And we're going to have this great democratic Iran that's going to love the United States of America and want to do all sorts of business deals with you. And the Trump Tower Tehran is going to be going up any minute. I don't know if he was actually dumb enough to believe that.

54:47Krystal Ball:But now that he has certainly been disabused of that notion, if he had that notion before, well, what other plan can there possibly be other than we want to collapse this entire state? We just want chaos. We just want mayhem. The literal quote here is, if we can have a civil war, great. Think of how sick that is. Think of how destabilizing. You're talking about a country of 90 million people. Think about the blowback and spiral effects that we can't even contemplate at this point. I mean, we just have the roadmap of like Iraq and what we saw happen there, Libya and what we saw happen there. You know, it's incredibly unpredictable when you destabilize or when your goal is to thoroughly destabilize a country as large and as diverse and as important for the global economy as Iran is.

55:34Krystal Ball:And yet, you know, that's what Israel is aiming for. And by, you know, for whatever reason, the U.S. has decided to go along with that plan. So that is the actual plan that is in action now. And to Sagar's point, there is no way this thing is going to be quick. We are not going to be getting out of here anytime soon.

55:53Saagar Enjeti:There's only one. Trump would have to make the heroic decision, the actual heroic decision of saying, I fucked up and this is over. That's it. That's the only decision.

56:01Krystal Ball:He could have, after they assassinated the Ayatollah, he could have claimed that this was some glorious victory and they're not going to do a nuke. And so we can mission accomplished. See you later. Let's just not talk about this again. And he didn't take that, you know, he didn't take that opportunity for, you know, reasons that continue to remain somewhat shrouded in mystery.

56:23Saagar Enjeti:And let's just say now that at this point we're in it, you know, now Americans are dead. Now installations bases are hit. Let's put B6 up here on the screen. Fighter jets falling out of the sky. Right. Yeah. Three fighter jets, which have all been

56:36Krystal Ball:at least there are some reports accidentally, accidentally by the Kuwaitis, apparently shows

56:41Saagar Enjeti:you the level of coordination. This, from the New York Times, which we're showing you some of these images, demonstrate some of the bases which have been hit. And you can actually see the various different structures, all of which have either been wiped out. These are very sophisticated suicide drone strikes by the Iranians, very targeted at radar systems and communications specifically, because those are the coordinating radar for much of the interceptors and others. This could explain perhaps why we've seen some of the strikes that have already happened, Iranian strikes inside of the Gulf countries because they rely on some of these communication infrastructures and radars to be able to coordinate their air defense.

57:19Saagar Enjeti:And they say U.S. military communication infrastructure highly classified, making it difficult to determine what exact systems, but the targeted locations seem to indicate Iran was aiming to disrupt the ability to communicate and to coordinate. And I mean, look, we've already seen problems with that in Kuwait. They say Iran has attacked the military communications capacity even recently as June, whenever it tried to hit Qatar. In multiple of these instances, we saw, and that Kuwait, or sorry, that Qatar base is really troubling because you could see a big impact that happened in one of those images.

57:49Saagar Enjeti:And just to beat the drum on our stockpiles, let's go to B7, please, and put this on the screen. This is the clearest sign yet so far that things are not nearly as rosy as they're trying to paint. Defense executives are now planning to meet at the White House as strikes on Iran diminish stockpiles. So basically, it's like an emergency summoning to the White House where the White House is going to read them the riot act and they're like, hey, you guys need to create more missiles. And they're like, we can't because it's not just a process which gets spun up overnight. It actually takes years, which is why people like us have been talking about this for years.

58:30Saagar Enjeti:It's all out there. It's public record. They have to show this, literally they have to show and allocate the number of missiles and interceptors and all these other things that they buy in Congress. I've gotten so much pushback. Like, as if you know. It's not about me knowing. It's like they published the document, literally. Congress can even tell you. That's because they have to report to them. It's all in files. You can go and check it for yourself if you want to. What we see inside this report, this summoning of these defense executives, is that even if we try to throw the money at them, that the timeline for production takes years.

59:03Saagar Enjeti:Like you could literally try to nationalize the industry. And even with that, you could not X the capacity enough to be able to fulfill already what we have used in this conflict. So that means that we have a couple of options. You have to use, as you were talking about, dumb bombs. It's not exactly right, but like we have a large sack pile of these JDAMs. But what we don't have are these interceptors, these Tomahawk missiles, or nearly as much. And the capacity to replace them is extremely difficult. and they're massively expensive. So that means, while we do have stockpiles elsewhere, that you have to take it from there.

59:35Saagar Enjeti:Well, there's already a huge shitstorm in the military because a lot of the people who are in charge of defending the Pacific are like, we can't give this up because if we give it up to you, A, that leaves us super, super unreliable over here to all of our allies, Japan, South Korea, all of these actually massively important countries to the United States, China, Taiwan, all of these problems that we're having. I was listening to Brandon Weikert this morning in an interview and he was speculating that it's based on some reporting or things that he had heard that there are Chinese and Russian intelligence that are being shared could explain why the Iranians have the ability to hit some of these things.

1:00:09Saagar Enjeti:What, I mean, can you put it out of the question? The United States is basically doing all those strike packages for the Ukrainians. We're spying on the Russians and then giving the coordinates to them. Why do you think they wouldn't want to? And this is great. They get to test all of our munitions, deplete them, see exactly how they work and strike at our capacity. And what are we doing all of this for? I've seen all this 5D chess. Oh, this is all about a message to China. This is, what a joke. Nonsense, right?

1:00:34Krystal Ball:This is one of the best things - A message to China that we're pathetic and allow our service members to be blown up in triple-wide trailers with no protection. Right.

1:00:40Saagar Enjeti:And the Chinese are like, oh, okay. They're like, this is great. They're like, we could turn this into their Vietnam or their Afghanistan. Let's flood as much of this as we possibly can, make it difficult, bog them down. There's nothing they could want more. It's the same thing that we used to argue about in Ukraine. They argued it was some sort of deterrence. Nope. If anything, it actually depleted, as they already are admitting, they are literally admitting, the United States military, that we sent a huge number to Ukraine and we don't have the capacity to backfill some of the people in the Gulf.

1:01:08Saagar Enjeti:And of course, we haven't even talked enough about the hundreds of thousands, if not one million plus Americans, who are basically stranded all across the Middle East, who have no way to get out. The State Department is emergency trying to create an evacuation scenario now. And now they're competing, though, with the military for military aircraft to be able to use to get them out. There's no planned evacuation as of right now. So we have almost a week of hostilities that are happening, and people are sheltering in place if they want to leave. I read a story about some mother who had to take a bus for seven and a half hours, and it takes six flights to be able to get back to Chicago.

1:01:42Saagar Enjeti:Can you imagine? She's a pregnant lady. She's sitting on a bus for seven and a half hours from Israel to Egypt. and has to catch a flight like to nine different places before she can come back to Chicago. That's one person. She's lucky enough to be able to get out. So think about the number of people that can't with small children or others. It's a nightmare. It's a total nightmare.

1:01:58Krystal Ball:Yeah, absolutely. And just to go back to that, that article about them rushing in the defense execs and demanding that they produce more is really extraordinary because also keep in mind, Trump was just posting on True Social about how our stockpiles are virtually unlimited. We could do war forever if we want. I mean, the man literally said that he is just such an incredible liar. And then you see the panic behind the scenes of like, oh, my God, we got to get these guys in here and hope that yelling at them somehow magically creates more stockpiles. It doesn't work that way. And somehow Trump, I think he because he has faced so many times where he is.

1:02:37Krystal Ball:We've said it before. He's like the luckiest man on the planet. So often things just the ball happens to bounce his way. And, you know, all the critics said that Venezuela would be a disaster. But look, I kidnapped Maduro and it went fine, in his view. This was no problem whatsoever. You know, all of the tariffs, they said they crashed the economy. Well, they weren't great for the economy, but, you know, the stock market kept going up. So he looks at that and he was like, they were wrong. Everything was fine. I think he just doesn't live in a reality where anything matters. So when he hears these, you know, generals who came in and were like, listen, we have no answer for these drones, these like 30 to$50 ,000 drones that they can spin up like crazy and produce mass quantities of.

1:03:18Krystal Ball:We really have no answer for that. Our stockpiles are already low. We cannot protect all of our allies in the region. Like our Gulf allies are also running low on interceptors. This is a bad idea. He just does not take that seriously because he thinks, well, these type of experts have said I was wrong before and I've always proven them wrong. I know more about this. And by the way, my friend Netanyahu is telling me that this is all going to be great. And Bibi here in D.C. all the time talking to Trump on the phone, talking to other officials on the phone all the time. And when you have a when you have someone like Netanyahu and his government with a really clear goal and a very clear ideology and they know what they want and you are working on someone who is as stupid and easily manipulated and without any sort of grounding principles as Trump.

1:04:08Krystal Ball:That is part of why, you know, from the beginning, I thought that this was very, that we were very likely to end up in this place. Not to mention the fact that in the first term, Trump was extremely hawkish towards Iran as well, that they in different ways tried to foment a coup and a regime change in Iran as well in the first term. That was why I was fairly confident that unfortunately we would at some point end up in this place. And here we are.

1:04:31Saagar Enjeti:It's really bad. Let's put B9 up here on the screen just to highlight some of the issues about a broadening conflict. So we had actually a very troubling incident yesterday where it appeared an Iranian missile was actually fired at Turkey. So at a U.S. base, which is in the country, a U.S. Navy destroyer shot down the missile. But this was one of the first times, other than the British military base, which was struck in Cyprus, there are NATO allies, which are already being ensnared. Now, remember, I mean, Turkey, this is a very difficult problem for them. You've got air bases of the United States and Turkey.

1:05:07Saagar Enjeti:At the same time, the Turks have okay relations with the Iranians. They apparently summoned the ambassador over this strike, and there was even some report that they may have had another one, but they're also going to be very against any sort of Kurdish uprising, which is in the country. But you can see how very quickly these things can spiral out of control. Another censorship thing I want to note is we haven't seen video of this, But Qatar, Kuwait, and others keep talking about Iranian fighters, which they're able to shoot down, which come very close to striking U.S. bases. So that's very significant for a number of reasons that they still have the ability to take off, let's say, a couple of days into the conflict.

1:05:48Saagar Enjeti:You would expect that to be one of the first things to go. And so far, the air defense systems and others have all been able to hold up. But it only takes one for it to create a serious mass casualty or crazy style event. Last thing on here before we move on, we wanted to flag weird incident, B-11. Let's put it up here on the screen. This is from the UK media. They are saying that a drone attack on their base in Cyprus was hit by a Shahhead-like drone on Sunday but confirmed it was not launched from Iran. So where was the launch from? And they haven't been able to tell us. So serious questions here.

1:06:22Cypriot authorities said that the assault executed was an Iranian drone,

1:06:26Saagar Enjeti:most probably deployed, they think, from Hezbollah, from Lebanese territory. But that shows that you've got drones that are not just in the country, but also being able to spread out, let's say, either in Syria via proxy. Hezbollah, they could attack in Israel. They could attack other bases, other territories. So that's significant. I mean, what is it? Isn't Cyprus? It's hundreds of miles away from Iran just to show their own limited power projection. And the Houthis haven't even gotten fully involved yet. Do they hand their hands on these drones and their ability to try and go after? The United States said they were going to escort ships in the Straits of Hormuz.

1:07:01Saagar Enjeti:That will put them much more in the launch range of some of these anti-ship ballistic missiles and also potentially some of these drones as well.

1:07:09Krystal Ball:Yeah, this drone situation, there's two possibilities. One is that it was Hezbollah and two is that it was a false flag from Israel, which I don't put either one out of the question. And both possibilities raise alarms about the escalatory nature of what has been unleashed here. Because Iran has deployed this mosaic defense where because they anticipated that there would be an attempt to decapitate the government, they really spread decision making out among these different military units. So their military commanders are authorized to sort of freelance, like they have whatever is in their purview and they are allowed to make decisions on their own independently.

1:07:51Krystal Ball:They don't have to wait for some order to come down from the top. What does that mean? It means you've got a bunch of military commanders out there who are freelancing, who, you know, perhaps are firing missiles or using drones in ways that if you had a cohesive, like, top-down military structure, they may think better of because of the possible escalatory nature. Now, I also think, I mean, based on what we're seeing from Iran, that they have calculated that since this is an existential threat, they also need to make the Gulf countries feel some pain and recognize that this is a problem for them in the hope that they will put pressure on the U.S.

1:08:26Krystal Ball:to pull out and end this war. So I do think that is part of their strategy. And then with regard to Israel, they have the same incentive to broaden and spread this conflict. They want as many countries engaged in this war as possible, which is why I don't think it's insane to float that, you know, you could have false, whether this was one or not, that you could have false flag attacks from Israel. We talked earlier about that report from Tucker that you had Mossad agents in Gulf countries that were caught trying to foment terrorist attacks or trying to commit terrorist attacks. They're denying, yes, there's denials all around.

1:08:58Krystal Ball:But again, these are things that you cannot put out of bounds because that is the interest that the Israelis have. They want this to broaden and spread as much as possible. Drawing Turkey in? Absolutely. They're all for that. All the Gulf countries, they want them brought in. They want everybody engaged in this fight because that's what serves their interest. And so that's why, you know, the only country that maybe even theoretically has an interest in not allowing this thing to spread is us. But when you have the Iranians and the Israelis both wanting this to escalate and spiral, that is very likely what you're going to get.

1:09:33Krystal Ball:And, of course, that is already what we see, you know, in terms of the direction of this going. And I mean, from the U.S. too, like we sunk this Iranian frigate that was over in the Indian Ocean that was not armed, actually. And we shot a torpedo at it from a submarine. Pete Hexitz was bragging about it. We didn't go and try to rescue any of the sailors either, which apparently is something even the Nazis did during World War II, would go and rescue sailors after they struck their boats. But in any case, so it's not like we're really trying to contain this thing and de-escalate it either because that was quite far from the main theater of action.

1:10:11Saagar Enjeti:Yeah, actually, that submarine thing is actually kind of a political problem in India. There's a lot of discussion around it. I'm sure.

1:10:17Krystal Ball:Because they had invited them there for some naval exercises.

1:10:19Saagar Enjeti:So there was a naval exercise. So in the Indian diaspora, actually, or sorry, in the Indian discourse over there, they're like, hey, are we going to allow this? Like, we're going to invite people over here? Are we going to talk to the United States? They're like, yeah, it was international waters. Should we have had an escort? These people saluted our own prime minister. You know, they're worried about their own threat to the prestige. I was literally reading some of the Indian papers this morning. So, look, I mean, it's already spread. There's a cut, you know, literally insane to think about torpedoes being launched.

1:10:46Saagar Enjeti:They're saying, I think, the first time since World War II, which is insane. And, yeah, I mean, the level of how it's already spread and impacted global gas prices, which are already ticking up diesel prices, actually went over$4. I think there were some reports about California jet fuel futures and others. Like the level of economic damage that this could inflict in a matter of weeks is going to be immense. And the president and his team appear to only be waking up to that now. It's not as if they really planned for any of it by their own admission. And that will only further extend, let's say, the U.S.

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1:14:30Krystal Ball:So the Senate voted yesterday on this War Powers resolution. We can put this up on the screen. It failed effectively along party lines. You had Fetterman voting with the Republicans, Rand Paul voting with the Democrats. And so it failed 47 to 53. And, you know, I think it's I think it's noteworthy, both that you had all the Democrats except Fetterman hang together. But more importantly, you know, there's been a lot of talk and you see a lot of kind of like MAGA influence or some number of MAGA influencers. Megyn Kelly. Right. Obviously, Nick Fuentes and Alex Jones are opposed to this. You see some people like that.

1:15:06Krystal Ball:The war room people are uncomfortable with what's going on. So you see a lot of like loud voices who are on the right, who are opposed to this war with Iran. But if you look at the polling, the Republican base, they're largely on board with it. You know, it is more of an online phenomenon, the opposition, than the reality among the Republican base, which just says like basically, oh, Trump is doing this. So we support it. So I think the fact that the Republicans hung together and did not remember, this is not even about like authorizing war. this is a vote to say like this power russ with us, that even the Susan Collins of the world, who is very likely to get her clock cleaned by Graham Plattner in the fall, even they felt like the right political calculus was to vote against this.

1:15:53Krystal Ball:Now, you have to factor into that not only the like political base and the fear of Trump and his ire. You also have to factor into that the money from AIPAC and other ideology Israel lobby types on the ideology, too. That's a great point too, is some of these people just genuinely believe in endless war. Many of them genuinely believe in endless war. And so that's how you end up with a situation where even though you have, you know, some 70 % of the country that is like, no, we don't want this. You still have every Republican Senate, save for Rand Paul saying, eh, we're going to let the president do whatever he wants.

1:16:27Saagar Enjeti:Right. And, uh, that is the scary part. Uh, you know what's, I mean, to stick on that, one of the things I personally hate is people wish casting analysis. So there's been, like you just said, there's a lot of people like, oh, this is a screw you to the base. And I never use those words. You know what I say? I say it's a screw you to the country because the base is always gonna stick with him. I grew up in Bush country. 5 ,000 US troops were killed. They didn't care, okay? They all stuck with him till the end. He's my president. I'd like to have a beer with him. You remember all that? They say that till 09.

1:16:57Saagar Enjeti:That's what a lot of these people were saying. Today, they would all claim that they were all against it. Not true, I remember. But that's the reality. The base, they'll stick with him. Now, the rest of the country, independents, the 51%, let's say, who voted for him, that's a whole other story. Those are the people who are much more on the fence, people who are not self-identified, actual Republicans. Many of them, one of the things that can explain this number is when you start self-identifying other than as a Republican and then you disagree, it shoots the Republican number support up for the war.

1:17:23Saagar Enjeti:But let's not make any mistake that all of these people are loyal to Donald Trump and to party ideology itself. I will say in the Senate case, vote. What you see with the Susan Collins and the Murkowskis and all of them is I do, I actually think Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski, they vote against Trump all the time. All the time, right? And they've been able to survive. It's very telling to me that the one thing they won't vote against him on is Iran because they support the operation line. I don't think that we can adequately describe the way that in Washington brain, this is a justified operation to the extent that it's gone bad.

1:17:59Saagar Enjeti:It's because Trump hasn't done it the process way, you know, properly. He didn't brief us. Yeah, he didn't brief us properly. It's like, that's all they care about. They don't care about the fact that we're in a bad conflict, period, end of story. This is gonna be just like 2004. The war Democrats, they're already emerging and we're seeing some of this. And yes, just like 2003, there are only extremely limited, like count on one hand, the level, the type of people who will speak out either against party or against ideology to say this is ridiculous. One of them is Congressman Thomas Massey. Here he is.

1:18:31Saagar Enjeti:Let's take a listen. As to why we launched this preemptive war, the president says we had to strike first because an Iranian strike was imminent. Meanwhile, the Department of Defense conceded there was no evidence of an imminent Iranian strike. Some told us this war was about nuclear weapons. But six months ago, we were assured our last strike on Iran decimated their nuclear program. So which is it? I think the most candid answer came from the secretary of state who told the press that Israel forced our hand and dragged us into this war. There is Congressman Thomas Massey. He's going to be one of the very few Republicans, if at all, who end up voting against it.

1:19:13Saagar Enjeti:And look, this is a valiant effort from Congressman Massey and from Ro Khanna, others, Tim Kaine, who forced the War Powers Act vote. but look, now let it all be on record. It's out there now. We can hold these people at the very least accountable. You did not even want to vote for the ability to vote whether this is something that you have an interest in. Okay, we got you. We hear you loud and clear. What's going to come next is the supplemental funding, though. That's the big issue.

1:19:38Krystal Ball:Well, and that is the purpose of these votes. I mean, let's imagine a world where they actually did pass the War Powers Resolution. It's not like we really think that that would constrain Trump. What this is about is putting people on the record for history so that forever it is marked down in the history books who did what when. Because, again, you're going to have so many people after the fact when this thing I mean, it's already gone bad. I don't know how anyone's supporting it already. But when it is an undeniable, complete catastrophe and Americans reject it overwhelmingly in a way that is, again, undeniable, you're going to have all kinds of people pretending they opposed it from the jump.

1:20:17Krystal Ball:So at least for these politicians, we can get them on the record. Where did you stand? What did you do at the beginning? Did you even have the guts to claim the power for Congress to weigh in on this thing? Or did you just say, yes, sir, Mr. President, whatever mayhem and madness you want to do, go ahead and go for it. So let's go and put C3 up on the screen because to Sagar's point, the next battle is over. Munding. Now, have you heard anyone in the media say, how will you pay for it? How will you pay for it? The roughly billion, probably more dollars a day that are being spent currently. The$50 billion reported supplemental funding that they're going to ask Congress for.

1:20:59Krystal Ball:This is Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, says Congress will pass Iran war funding when appropriate. So$50 billion more. What else could that$50 billion be spent on? Do you have any ideas in your head? maybe health care, maybe housing, maybe education, maybe infrastructure, you know, maybe jobs, all kinds of things that could be done with this$50 billion rather than, you know, killing little girls in Iran or risking our service members lives in the Middle East. Seems like the American taxpayers probably have some better ideas of how they would like these funds to be spent. And yet, you know, from the quote unquote opposition party, you can put this up on the screen, Politico reached out to a bunch of senators on the Democratic side to say, hey, you know, you have expressed some concerns about this war, and all of the Democrats, save for Fetterman, have expressed those concerns, and all of them, save for Fetterman, voted for the War Powers Resolution.

1:21:57Krystal Ball:What about the supplemental funding? Schumer, before you can feel satisfied about a supplemental, and I haven't seen it, you have to know what the real goals are and what the endgame is. You see there, he's not ruling it out. He's saying, oh, we just need more information. We need a better briefing. OK, again, process concern, not opposition. Delaware Senator Chris Coons, who absolutely sucks all the time, a senior Democratic appropriator, says he expects the Pentagon will send Congress a supplemental funding request and vowed to, quote, make sure we are making all the investments we can to keep U.S.

1:22:30Krystal Ball:troops safe. Coons said the Trump administration needs to testify at an open hearing so American people can get questions answered about the failures in planning that led to the sum of the challenges losses, and mistakes in this war. Okay. So again, process, they need to speak to the American people, but ultimately he's going to fund it is bottom line, what he's saying there. Our friend, Alyssa Slotkin, she said, I don't rule anything out, comma, I mean, we're in it. Tim Kaine also said something similar, even though he's been great on leading the push for this war powers resolution, but when it comes to funding the war that you claim to oppose, you're open to voting for the funding of the war?

1:23:08Krystal Ball:I mean, this makes no sense. If you oppose the war, you oppose funding the war. It is that simple. And so the amount of, you know, of capitulation, the amount of, frankly, ideological support from the Democratic Party is insane. They are so disconnected from the base of the party. And so with their vote on the War Powers Resolution, you know, the fact that they stayed lockstep except for John Fetterman. That is a proof of how strongly, adamantly the base is opposed to this thing. And not just from a you didn't brief was concerned, but outright directly opposed to this thing. They knew they could not vote against this war prowler's resolution because there would be hell to pay from the base.

1:23:52Krystal Ball:You saw Mark Kelly say like, oh, I don't know how I'm going to vote on this thing. And I guarantee you he got slammed with phone calls. And next thing you know, guess how he voted? He voted for it. So they are under tremendous pressure from the base. And yet they think they can get away with voting to fund this thing. It is absolutely insane to me.

1:24:10Saagar Enjeti:Well, you know, trip down memory lane back in 07, Nancy Pelosi, you might remember this, where she tried to fund the Iraq because it was right after the 2006 victory for the midterms. Pelosi was negotiating funding with the Bush administration. And what she did is she put a withdrawal timeline on the funding for the administration. But even that was something that many of the progressive Democrats who were inside at the time were saying, what they were saying is like, no, you need a much faster withdrawal timeline because they didn't want to support the surge. Bush ended up vetoing it, and they did eventually win that entire funding battle, which of course kept American forces in Iraq.

1:24:50Saagar Enjeti:What they wanted to do was they wanted to fulfill their claim that they had, right, was basically, we ran on ending the war in Iraq. And the president now wants to surge troops in Iraq. We cannot then continue to fund what we ran against. But the moderate leaders in the Democratic Party, so-called, like Nancy Pelosi and others, who became the speaker, said, no, no, no, we can't do that because we have to play ball with the Bush administration. And so what they ended up doing actually was kind of knifing what had happened and continuing to fund that, not to mention what happened with Barack Obama.

1:25:21Saagar Enjeti:You're watching the exact same thing now play out is you can't say, especially in this case, Iraq was a whole other story, right? Because we had our troops on the ground, et cetera. Like, you know, obviously many Democrats had voted for it. In this case, if you're going to be against it, then how can you continue to fund it? It's ridiculous, right? If you're saying that the best possible thing would be to force the administration's hand by saying, no, you can't have more money to continue operations. You need to figure out some sort of diplomatic solution. That is the best way to go about it. But they failed to do that under Bush.

1:25:49Saagar Enjeti:They also failed to do it multiple times under Obama. This is how the bipartisan consensus keeps going. And the more that the money is flowed, that's the only thing that allows the administration to continue to operate. That's the disaster I think that we're seeing in all of this. So we have no war powers. I mean, Glenn made this point, I thought it was so good, is that when the framers put together this idea of the constitution, they actually theorize that the co-equal branches of government would fight as hard as they possibly could for maintaining their own institutional power within the system.

1:26:20Saagar Enjeti:And they actually never could have imagined that you would have an entire branch that would just hold up its hand and surrender to what was going on in the White House. And this is a political culture now which has been normalized over the last 25 years from Bush onward because, and I want to make this the most, because they do not want to bear the political consequences of their actions. Even the Democrats, like you're saying, Mark Kelly and all these people, they'll vote for the War Powers Resolution. But the real fight is going to be on funding. The real fight is going to be on how you're actually working to make sure that this doesn't continue to happen.

1:26:50Saagar Enjeti:They're happy to take the vote to tell the base they didn't vote for it. But are you actually going to do everything to keep it away? No. And then same with many of the so-called anti-war Republicans. I mean, Josh Hawley, some of these other guys. They all voted for this. I mean, it's ridiculous. I mean, this is the most consequential war vote you will ever take as a member of Congress, at least so far in your entire term. And you're like, nope, actually, not only does the president have the ability, we don't even have the ability to weigh in. It's ludicrous.

1:27:15Krystal Ball:Yeah, that's right. Yep. The only Republican who voted against it was Rand Paul. Right. And then in the house, you've got Thomas Massey. And we'll see if there are any others who join him whatsoever. I wanted to show this as well. This is a Marine retired Marine who protested in a congressional hearing. And let's put this up on the screen, guys. This is C5. And you can see him being wrestled out. That guy in the suit, that is a freaking senator. uh shihi and in the process of doing this and trying to remove this man who i don't know if you heard what he just said there he said nobody wants to die for israel i think that's a pretty salient point in any case they broke this man's arm including this uh senator who's for some reason gets involved here with uh you know the the police trying to remove this retired marine i mean just just wild you know to see that whole scene play out and you know man reminds me of my childhood

1:28:13Saagar Enjeti:Absolutely.

1:28:14Krystal Ball:I mean, a retired Marine having his arm broken because he says nobody wants to die for Israel. Pull the country. Ask them. Do people want to die for Israel? Is that because that's what Marco Rubio tells you is going on here. He said it plain that that's what's actually happening here. Now, I think that is not the entire truth, but there's no doubt that the people who have been the most relentless in pushing for this are all of the most hardest core Zionist in this country. and obviously the Israeli government themselves.

1:28:43Saagar Enjeti:Do you remember Tim Shade? Do you remember the little factoid about him?

1:28:46Krystal Ball:Is he the one that got in the fight with that reporter?

1:28:48Saagar Enjeti:He's the one who, with Megyn Kelly, got into that whole dispute about the circumstances in which he was shot. Oh, in the national park.

1:28:58Krystal Ball:Oh my God, yes. That's the guy. Yes, that's right. Bizarre story.

1:29:02Saagar Enjeti:The whole circumstance was very, very strange where a national park ranger was like he shot himself and he claimed he got shot.

1:29:09Krystal Ball:And anyway, there's just just saying the bottom line is he shot himself and then lied about it is the TLDR of how that went down.

1:29:17Saagar Enjeti:That seems to be the evidence as to where things currently point. It's the new me and it's the old them. This Woman's History Month, the podcast, If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes, spotlights women who turn missteps into momentum and lessons into power. My like tunnel vision of like I got to achieve this was off the strengths of like I want to make a better life for us. If You Knew Better brings real talk from women who've lived it, unpacking career pivots, relationship lessons, and the mindset shifts that changed everything. Listen to If You Knew Better with Amber Grimes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:29:51Saagar Enjeti:All right, son, time to put out this campfire. Dad, we learned about this in school. Oh, did you now? Okay. What's first? Smokey Bear said to... First, drown it with a bucket of water, then stir it with a shovel. Wow, you sound just like him. Then he said, if it's still warm, then do it again. Where can I learn all this? It's all on SmokeyBear.com with other wildfire prevention tips. Because only you can prevent wildfires. Brought to you by the USDA Forest Service, your state forester, and the Ad Council. On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast, what if the right fit isn't what everyone expects?

1:30:26Saagar Enjeti:In the case of the right fit, Ella explores movement, confidence, and belonging. And learns that not all strength looks the same. This Women's History Month story introduces kids to women who change sports by trusting themselves and moving differently. Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Code every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1:30:51Krystal Ball:This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.