4/15/26: Lebanon Invasion Doomed, Scientists Go Missing, Professor Pape On Iran Ceasefire

15 Apr 2026 · 52 min · 23 chapters

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In short

Episode topic: Two-part discussion. First, geopolitical analysis of U.S.-hosted Israel–Lebanon ceasefire talks (brokered by Secretary of State Marco Rubio) and why the guest says the talks are a “fig leaf” for continued Israeli operations and a de facto partition/occupation. Second, a pattern-spotting segment on “missing scientists” and UAP transparency, linking alleged deaths/disappearances of U.S. aerospace/nuclear-related figures to secret programs and national security.

Guests and backgrounds

  • Shael Ben-Efreim: Geopolitical analyst covering Israel–Lebanon/Iran dynamics.
  • Lauren Conlon: East Coast contributor for LA Magazine; researched alleged “dark pattern” of scientist deaths and UAP transparency.
  • Professor Pape (referred to as “Professor”): Longtime scholar arguing ceasefires delay escalation; discusses Iran, Hormuz/Red Sea blockades, and escalation stages.

Key claims

  • Ben-Efreim: Israel plans to dismember Lebanon, seize zones up to the Litani River, dismantle Hezbollah (which Lebanon cannot control), and Lebanon’s public opinion (70–80% against normalization) makes deals implausible. He says U.S.-Iran diplomacy incentivized increased strikes.
  • Conlon: There’s a recurring pattern among deaths/disappearances of people tied to NASA/JPL, aerospace, and classified work; she cites UAP oversight demands (House Oversight seeking 46 UAP videos) and argues transparency matters in wartime.
  • Professor Pape: Troop movements and choke-point escalation (Hormuz/Red Sea) show escalation toward ground operations; Iran won’t concede because giving up power assets increases vulnerability.

Notable examples

  • Ben-Efreim: Destruction of southern Lebanese villages and planned permanent bases; Hezbollah popularity boosts after prior conflicts (2000 withdrawal; 2006 war).
  • Conlon: Michael David Hicks (NASA scientist); Frank Maywald (NASA JPL, searching for signs of life); General Neil McCaslin (Wright-Patterson/Roswell debris claims); Monica Reza disappearance; Carl Grillmare (Caltech astrophysicist) and alleged shooter Freddy Snyder.
  • Professor Pape: U.S. carrier George H.W. Bush reportedly rerouted around Africa due to Bab al-Mandeb/Houthi risk; blockade described as an “act of war” and a threshold-crossing escalation.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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Introducing Shael Ben-Efreim

1:00 to 1:18

Introduction of geopolitical analyst Shael Ben-Efreim.

“We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com.”

Lebanon-Israel Diplomatic Meeting

1:18 to 2:05

Discussion on the recent meeting between Lebanese and Israeli diplomats.

“So let's go and put this up here on the screen, D1.”

Historical Context of the Conflict

2:05 to 3:56

Exploration of the historical tensions and current demands in the region.

“The United States has put a lot of pressure on the Lebanese government and on Israel to discuss a ceasefire.”

Impact of Israeli Actions on Lebanon

3:56 to 5:48

Analysis of Israel's military actions and their implications for Lebanon.

“They've lost 15 % of their population leaving, and that's mostly liberals and moderates who might want normalization.”

Hezbollah's Role and Public Opinion

5:48 to 7:19

Examination of Hezbollah's position and the Lebanese public's sentiment.

“The occupation Israel's planning is permanent.”

Negotiation Dynamics and U.S. Involvement

7:19 to 9:30

Insight into the complexities of the negotiations and U.S. influence.

“This is very important to underscore, Shail.”

The Future of Lebanon and Iran's Perspective

9:30 to 12:19

Discussion on the potential outcomes for Lebanon and Iran's strategic interests.

“So the only reason Israel is agreeing to this is because it gives it cover to continue its operation in Lebanon with some American support.”

Hezbollah's Strategic Mistake

14:00 to 15:50

Explore Hezbollah's involvement in the recent conflict and its implications for Lebanon and Iran.

“But Hezbollah brought on Israeli aggression by getting involved in a war when Israel was at its most vengeful point after October 7th.”

Introduction to Saigon Podcast

15:51 to 17:00

Learn about the new podcast 'Saigon' and its focus on Vietnam's historical narrative.

“Well, Shail, thank you very much for your time.”

The Mystery of Missing Scientists

18:51 to 20:52

Discuss the alarming trend of missing scientists and the possible connections to government secrets.

“I've gotten a lot of heat for saying that.”
Show all 23 chapters

Analyzing Patterns in Disappearances

20:53 to 22:38

Uncover patterns in the deaths and disappearances of scientists linked to classified projects.

“The Post reports, quote, it is unclear if there's any foul play linked to Hicks's death, but his obituary asks for donations in his memory to go to Alcoholics Anonymous.”

Connections Between Scientists' Deaths

22:39 to 24:35

Exploring the links between the deaths of notable scientists and potential government involvement.

“and, and possibly, yes, they were dealing with substance abuse, um, issues and, and that could be connected to everything that they were working on.”

Mysterious Circumstances Surrounding Disappearances

24:36 to 28:00

Delve into the strange circumstances surrounding the disappearances of key scientific figures.

“She was behind a friend or two while hiking about 30 feet.”

The Mysterious Case of Carl Grillmare

28:00 to 29:00

Explore the strange occurrences surrounding the shooting of a Caltech scientist and the suspect's background.

“this kind of crosses over into some other things we're mentioning in society right now, but Carl Grillmare, he was a Caltech astrophysicist, reportedly a genius who's doing amazing work in finding water on other planets.”

Suspicious Circumstances and Conspiracy Theories

29:00 to 31:00

Discuss the implications of the shooting and the responses from the victims' families amid conspiracy theories.

“And by February 6th, prosecutors drop the charge entirely.”

UAPs and National Security Concerns

31:00 to 33:00

Delve into the significance of Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) and their connection to national security.

“And anybody who's watching this, please don't harass these people.”

Escalation in the Middle East

35:00 to 36:20

Examine the ongoing military situation in the Middle East and the implications of U.S. troop movements.

“troops are heading to the Middle East as Trump seeks to squeeze Iran.”

Understanding the Military Blockade's Impact

36:20 to 40:00

Analyze the economic and geopolitical consequences of the U.S. naval blockade against Iran.

“And we are seeing thresholds being broken.”

Iran's Power Projection and Regional Dynamics

40:00 to 42:07

Discuss Iran's shifting power dynamics and its implications for U.S. military strategy.

“And there's already the stories, the different economic organizations are starting to come out on my sub stack this week.”

Iran's Power Projection and Vulnerability

42:07 to 47:29

Explore how Iran's military capabilities and historical context influence its vulnerability and strategic decisions.

“So what you are seeing here is a power projection capability by Iran.”

The Implications of a Potential Blockade

47:30 to 50:42

Understand the economic and geopolitical consequences of a potential blockade against Iran.

“This is another, and Turkey doesn't have nuclear weapons yet.”

Escalation Dynamics and Regional Tensions

50:43 to 53:56

Discuss the possible outcomes of escalating tensions in the Middle East and Iran's strategic calculations.

“So there's path four, which is we let Iran become the fourth center of world power.”

Chilling Call to Action

56:01 to 56:15

Listeners are presented with a powerful message about impending change.

“There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. This is Saigon. The story of my family and of the country that shaped us. From iHeart Podcast, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. They're pouring petrol. Freedom for Vietnam! There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon starting on April 22nd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

0:43This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com.

1:08Joining us now is Shael Ben-Efreim. He is a geopolitical analyst and has put out a lot of interesting stuff on this new meeting between the Israelis and the Lebanese for a potential ceasefire. Shail, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Sure, always a pleasure. So let's go and put this up here on the screen, D1. The Lebanese and Israeli diplomats held this face-to-face meeting here in Washington. It was the first of its kind in many, many years. But you are very skeptical of some sort of a ceasefire. Could you maybe set the table for some of the history leading up to this moment and what you make of the development so far?

1:44Yeah, well, this is the first face-to-face meeting since the 1980s, when also violence, extreme violence in the region led to a series of meetings under American pressure and through the mediation of other Middle Eastern countries. And that's again what happened here. The United States has put a lot of pressure on the Lebanese government and on Israel to discuss a ceasefire. But there's absolutely no chance of it succeeding because Israel has plans to dismember Lebanon completely, take over a security zone all the way up to the Letani River. And what the Lebanese want is just a ceasefire just for Israel to stop firing.

2:41But Israel wants part of the country and wants Lebanon to try to dismantle Hezbollah. Now, the public opinion in Lebanon is wildly against any kind of deal with Israel because the kind of deal that Israel and the United States are looking for involves normalization of the relationship and peace while Israel takes away part of Lebanon's land. And even if the normalization involved giving up no land, there is very few people in Lebanon who are for normalization. 70 to 80 percent, depending on the poll, are against normalization without giving up land. With giving up land, you probably wouldn't find a single Lebanese person who would be willing to normalize.

3:29And meanwhile, Israel is demanding that Lebanon dismantle Hezbollah, which there's no support for whatsoever in Lebanon, especially with this invasion. Before this invasion, there probably would have been some support for it, but much less now. But even if Lebanon wanted to dismantle Hezbollah, they couldn't. Israel can't dismantle Hezbollah with its massive army, and Lebanon couldn't. Lebanon's also on the verge of becoming a failed state since 2022. Lebanon has been involved in an almost complete economic collapse. Their currency has almost no value. They've lost 15 % of their population leaving, and that's mostly liberals and moderates who might want normalization.

4:10So the whole thing is a farce. Yeah, we can start rolling some of this footage in D2. This is recent strikes in southern Lebanon. And Chell, can you help us understand, to your point about support previously for dismantling Hezbollah, defeating Hezbollah, how significant these strikes have been and basically how they may have undermined the cause of actually squelching Hezbollah in Lebanon? Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to oversell the prospects of anything happening regarding belching Hezbollah before all this happened. But as you can see, Israel is committing all sorts of war crimes and atrocities in Lebanon, the kind of atrocities that no country could put up with silently and that in public opinion absolutely will not allow for the government to facilitate.

5:10You know, not only has Israel killed all these people, a large portion of which are children, as usual, and not only is Israel operating deep inside Lebanon, but it's destroying entire villages. The first three lines of villages, and what you're seeing in that footage is the first line of villages. The first three lines of villages above Israel are slated for complete and total destruction. Every single building is going to be destroyed. And instead of those villages, Israel is going to build a network of military bases. There is a big debate in the IDF over whether to continue to destroy the next levels and the next levels and where these bases will be.

5:57The occupation Israel's planning is permanent. Every single person in Lebanon is very aware of that. And no matter what your feelings are about Hezbollah, no matter what your feelings are about the West and normalization, no one is willing to countenance this complete destruction of the Lebanese nation. And even people who hate Hezbollah the most and hate the Shiites the most can't imagine allowing this sort of thing to happen. Hezbollah is the only force in Lebanon that is standing up to Israel, and that will increase their popularity among neutral people. And this isn't the first time this happened.

6:36This happened also in the previous conflict and in much greater magnitude of order in the second Lebanon war. and also in 2000 when Israel withdrew from Lebanon that was also a big boon for Hezbollah's popularity put Hezbollah on the verge of controlling the entire country and now with the Shiites being an even larger part of the population for demographic reasons because people from other sectors are leaving and because they have a higher birth rate this will possibly once again turn Hezbollah into the leading political force in the country, and that's due to Israeli policy. This is very important to underscore, Shail.

7:22And one of the reasons we wanted to get into the nitty-gritty is that this is vital to the success, or at least it seems, of any sort of deal between the United States and Iran. A core tenant of that was a ceasefire with Lebanon. Now, as you're explaining it, because I don't think people may understand all of the details, is that these talks are between the Lebanese government and the Israelis. But it is to resolve, fundamentally, a Hezbollah problem, which they have at least a limited amount of control over from the Lebanese government, or maybe no control at all because the Hezbollah has rejected this.

7:53So for some sort of tenable ceasefire to occur from the Israeli side, it would effectively mean that the Lebanese government would have to agree to de facto annexation, occupation, and control of half of this country. Is that correct? That is correct. Yes. Lebanon would have to completely surrender the sovereignty of part of the country. That is an Israeli demand. They're giving Lebanon a map. And they're saying in the south, there's going to be three different zones, one where we completely directly control and destroy everything. Another one where we have joint control and one where Israel has the ability to operate freely.

8:33There's no government in the world that can agree to that formally, even if they agree to it de facto, which is also unlikely. Agreeing to it formally is like committing suicide for the government of any sovereign nation. And you hit on another very important point, which is that even if Lebanon wanted a ceasefire, they can't have a ceasefire because the Lebanese government and Lebanese army are not fighting against Israel. Hezbollah is. The Americans and Israelis know this perfectly well. So Lebanon can't deliver what Israel is asking for, even if it wanted to. And it wouldn't want to because they want Israel to leave its territory as any sovereign nation would.

9:14So this is really one of the most ridiculous negotiations imaginable between a government that not only is not the one firing but also isn't able to stop the firing but also doesn't have the legitimacy to reach the deal that the United States and Israel wanted to. So the only reason Israel is agreeing to this is because it gives it cover to continue its operation in Lebanon with some American support. Because Americans have been pressured into stopping this from some of their Arab allies. And that's the only reason it exists. It's a fig leaf. And people are talking about how historic it is, and the whole thing is a joke.

9:56I was just going to say Reuters headline coming out yesterday. U.S. hosts rare Israel-Lebanon talks, quote, progress unclear. And then as soon as we're done with that headline, we can put the BBC headline from a couple of days ago up on the screen. Quote, Israel steps up strikes on Lebanon and Hezbollah attacks continue as talks loom. So to your point, Shael, that's stunning. I mean, if you're reading the tea leaves, and I'm curious for your take on what we've heard after the meetings that were hosted here in D.C. yesterday, brokered by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, it confirms your suspicion, or it seems to really confirm your suspicion that this is a fig leaf, that this is a cover to continue with U.S.

10:41tacit backing strikes in southern Lebanon. on. Is that what you're reading after coming out of the last 24 hours, hearing from Israelis seeming to double down on their position after they left the meeting? I mean, that's what it seemed like to me, but I'm curious as an expert what you made of it. Yeah, so regarding American motivations, to be frank, sometimes it seems like the American officials making the decisions, Marco Rubio maybe doesn't fall into this category, sometimes are too clueless about the Middle East to really understand what they're doing. Sometimes what seems like being nefarious is actually complete ineptitude on their part.

11:16From the Israeli point of view, they know exactly what they're doing. They have no intention whatsoever of stopping or slowing down. And yes, the level of strikes that we're seeing in Lebanon greatly increased once the United States reached a deal with Iran in order to try to derail it. They wanted this war anyway, and this isn't the reason for the war in order to derail it, but that's a great bonus that they can get to derail it. So a fig leaf is even being charitable. Israel is using this war and these negotiations as a means of sabotaging the wider Iranian deal. and they are offering Lebanon basically what they are going to enforce either way, which is carving up their entire country.

12:15So yes, the whole thing is a fig leaf and it's a joke. And I am almost surprised that Lebanon is agreeing to this. They must be under a lot of pressure from other countries, France, the United States, some of their Arab partners to do this because they're fully aware of what Israel is doing. The only country that benefits from the existence of these talks, aside from the United States, is Israel. Lebanon is basically legitimizing what Israel is doing, even if they're not agreeing to it, just by talking to them. That's an important point. Now, Shail, here's the big question. If they agree to some sort of a ceasefire, which is occupation, control of half of the country.

12:59How would Iran view that? Because ultimately, they have to see it as a ceasefire, not just on Hezbollah, but of not de facto occupation control. Is that acceptable to them? Is this such a long-term problem that any tenable solution either would include Israeli withdrawal or the continuation of the war? How do you see that? Well, to the Iranians, they absolutely can't agree to Israel achieving these goals officially. But unofficially for Iran, this is a good thing. Unofficially for Iran, this strengthens Hezbollah and the grip that they have on Lebanon at a time when they were very, very weak. You know, after the last round of conflict, Israel had won that round.

13:52They managed to get a cisfire that was very much on American-Israeli terms. And they managed to convince a lot of people in Lebanon that, of course, Israel is aggressive towards Lebanon. But Hezbollah brought on Israeli aggression by getting involved in a war when Israel was at its most vengeful point after October 7th. So it looked like a terrible strategic mistake for Hezbollah and for Lebanon, what had happened. But Israel squandered that by breaking the ceasefire repeatedly and by now trying to completely destroy, it appears, the state of Lebanon. This is all great for Iran. You know, Iran was really on the rocks before this war, but this war has paradoxically revived their fortunes in the Middle East.

14:49Right now, between demographics and what Israel is doing, Hezbollah are set to become once again the most important force in the country in a way that they haven't been since 2023. And that really allows Iran once again to rebuild its network of proxies. And with the support they now have from China and Russia, we actually could see Iran be the strongest that it's been in several years. They have other problems because Syria is now also starting to invade Lebanon. Israel is invading Lebanon. But that will make Hezbollah the resistance there to all this imperialism against Lebanon. People will either support Hezbollah or leave increasingly.

15:37That's all very good for Iran. So Iran is going to want to see this through. They don't necessarily actually want to cease fire in Lebanon. They'll say that they do, but this is a process that plays into their hands. Makes sense. Well, Shail, thank you very much for your time. Really enlightening and very interesting. Thank you. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure. Good to see you. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From iHeart Podcast, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman.

16:16You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you read me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine! For freedom! Let's get out! Freedom! Call me at night! Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness. There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon, starting on April 22nd, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

17:00Joining us now is Lauren Conlon. She is the East Coast contributor for LA Magazine. Lauren, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your time. Sure. Thank you for having me and covering this story. Yeah. So let's talk. I mean, we've had a great amount of interest, a lot of inquiries around all of these missing scientists and some of these mysterious circumstances. Let's put this latest one up here on the screen. We have a missing nuclear official becomes the 10th person tied to this dark pattern surrounding US secrets. So top line, Lauren, you've actually dug into the circumstances of these.

17:30Is this a real story or is the Daily Mail or the tabloids, are they are they making it more out than it should be? Or should we all really be paying attention? I mean, I think we should all be paying attention. I think this is very important that this is coming to light. So I think the people that say, oh, well, you know, it's a coincidence because this happened in 2022. This happened in 2019. No one was paying attention then. But we're paying attention now. And what we're seeing is a pattern. And I don't want to sound cliche here because I think what's going on beyond some of the mysterious circumstances of these deaths or of these disappearances, you know, we're seeing names like Michael David Hicks, who was a NASA scientist.

18:12And, you know, off the top of my head, I'm like, well, I don't necessarily think that it's so odd that there's no cause of death listed. He didn't have an autopsy. You know, we don't know his religion, et cetera. But then when you see a pattern, you know, someone else whose death kind of echoed that, like Frank Maywald, you have to wonder, is it one, possibly, and I'm speculating, you know, they did take their own life. And this is because out of respect for the family, they don't want this out there. Or is it the elephant in the room here? Is it something bigger? Is it something connected to the government where these people have a lot of classified information?

18:53You know, and I don't even want to. I've gotten a lot of heat for saying that. And I want to be clear. I don't have proof of anything, but I am just saying the elephant in the room. The government is not above this and it doesn't always go through the president. The president doesn't always know what the hell is going on. Right. Exactly. And so I go back to saying, you know, Tim Burchett, love him, love the guy. But he's like, President Trump will disrupt. He will do this. OK, go for it. We'll all be waiting. I just don't see that happening. President Clinton said he wanted to release the JFK files, you know, also the UFO files.

19:32That never happened. Obama, you know, really wanted to release the UAP files. Talks very highly about Area 51. Nothing happened there. There's a reason for that, guys. And I know that whistleblowers have come out and said that we might be ready, right? As a society, we might be ready. I think it's twofold. I think it's a tough answer. What I will say, why we want more transparency now and why the House Oversight Committee is demanding these 46 UAP videos is because we are at war, guys. I mean, it is very important because if you look at this list of videos, you know, they do indicate some videos or I'm sorry, some UAPs are flying over Iran in 2022, Syria, one shaped like a cigar.

20:20We're talking about conflict areas. So we are not able to tell in real time if this is a drone, if this is a UAP, or if this is some kind of enemy defense. And so I think that, you know, us getting transparency, it'll be a big, big difference in whether or not we face disaster or defense. Well, let's get this next headline up on the screen. This is from the New York Post last week on the case of Michael Hicks. Another mysterious NASA death as ninth scientist linked to secret programs dies. Now, in the case of Michael Hicks, this death was in July of 2023. The Post reports, quote, it is unclear if there's any foul play linked to Hicks's death, but his obituary asks for donations in his memory to go to Alcoholics Anonymous.

21:03He joins eight other scientists or top officials who have died or disappeared recently. A couple of things I just want to zero in just from that last paragraph. First of all, evidence of foul play limited in this case. Looks like they're asking for donations to Alcoholics Anonymous. Secondly, when they say, quote, recently, this is a death back in 2023. People are going into the records, doing what journalists should do and trying to connect the dots, see if there are any more dots to be found, frankly. So are there similarities that stand out in these cases? I have seen a couple of them where it seems like maybe there's a substance, pre-existing substance condition, but that doesn't, or substance abuse condition, but we don't have any confirmation.

21:46We don't know what that actually could mean in the context of the deaths and disappearances. Even that question of which of these are deaths and which of these are disappearances, now that we're up to 10, it's sort of all hard to wrap your head around. So maybe help us find patterns that you've noticed. Yeah, you're right about that. And we don't have enough info. I am in the process of reaching out to certain family members that I can find some of these deaths. So and I'm talking specifically about the deaths that we are 100 percent confirmed on, like Carl Gromare. These are very fresh. I don't feel, you know, as a human being, just, you know, comfortable reaching out to a widow right away.

22:25Right. But, you know, Michael David Hicks, it's been a few years and I go back to saying, I don't necessarily think that his death is, is directly connected to let's say general McCaslin's death. I think Michael David Hicks's death could be more connected to Frank Maywald and, and possibly, yes, they were dealing with substance abuse, um, issues and, and that could be connected to everything that they were working on. Everything that they knew. And, and I don't have proof of that, but yeah, go ahead. So can you just explain a little bit, if people aren't super familiar, like General McCaskill, and we, you and I are familiar, Frank Maywald as well, what were they working on?

23:03What's the possible connection? Cause you've done a great job of actually highlighting the suspicious circumstances around these. Yeah. So Frank Maywald, he was a NASA JPL scientist. Um, he was a principal researcher at NASA's jet propulsion lab. And so he was trying to detect signs of human life on other planets. I obviously don't know what he found, he knows what he found. I'm assuming a handful of people know what he found. I don't think Congress knew what he found, but I don't know. And Carl Grillmare, what I will say about his death, I connect Carl Grillmare's, or I'm sorry, let's go back.

23:38I will say Neil McCaslin's death. General Neil McCaslin, he was a retired Air Force general, and he retired a number of years ago, but he was stationed at one point at Wright-Patterson. That's in Ohio. And if you're not familiar, reportedly they hold extraterrestrial debris from the 1947 Roswell crash there. Again, I've never seen it with my own eyes, but he also worked with Monica Reza there. And she was a rocket science. She co-patented the Mondelez or co-invented the Mondelez. So she was very, very intelligent, as was General McCaslin. And Monica Reza disappeared while hiking in June of 2025 in California.

24:22And Neil McCaslin disappeared in February of 2025, just walking out of his house in Albuquerque, New Mexico. So these are months apart. Monica Reza gives me chills. Number one, she seemed to have disappeared into thin air. She was behind a friend or two while hiking about 30 feet. It's kind of like they look back and they're like, Hey, and then a second later, or I don't even know, you know, a minute later, she's gone, vanishes into thin air. There's very little known about this search, but what I could find was that they had a canine dog. They were sniffing around. They found a hat. Her scent stopped at this hat.

25:00I mean, what? And she was actually marked deceased and had like some kind of biodegradable burial. And I know that anybody can go online and do this. You know, I understand how that works. But that's very odd that someone would do that when there was no body and there was no statement from NASA. No, nothing. We just kind of skimmed over this. And what I'll say is, and again, I don't have proof, but former FBI agent Chris Swecker, he has a lot of great information and a lot of great intel about what happens when these people are possibly kidnapped and tortured for intelligence. And he's not saying it's by our own government, right?

25:38We don't know who it is. We're not saying that it's not. Yeah. Right? But there's all these options. And then Neil McCaslin, this is very similar to the 10th person missing, the 10th official, Stephen Garcia. Both of them were last seen in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I mentioned General McCaslin walked out of his home. At the time, his wife didn't know if any guns were missing from his gun safe. but officials from the sheriff's office later reported that he was missing a revolver. He didn't take his phone, didn't take his wallet, nothing that he would need, not his glasses. And Stephen Garcia, and I think I mentioned this was February of 2026.

26:20Stephen Garcia, he is another official tied to, he worked, he had top security clearance at KCNSC out of New Mexico. He was in charge of all of the classified equipment and assets, tens of thousands of dollars. And, you know, this is through a source. I do not know his job description, you know, verbatim here, but he also was last seen walking around New Mexico with a handgun. And so, you know, with Steven Garcia, it was stated by officials, he could be a danger to himself. Neil McCaslin, there was a silver alert and his wife in this very, in my opinion, disturbing 911 call kind of indicates that, quote, he may not want to be found.

27:05She said he deliberately changed his clothes before he left. She said he was experiencing this brain and mental fog. And this is one of the reasons that he retired. And she just said he was getting frustrated. But she never would have thought that it would have meant this. And she's been criticized about this 911 call. And I don't want to criticize her because she called immediately when she realized he was gone and everybody reacts differently. I don't think that she would have thought that it would have been anything like this. She just said he was kind of frustrated. The last thing I'll say, the last thing I heard from authorities was that they found an Air Force sweatshirt a couple of miles away, but they have not confirmed whether or not that belongs to General McCaslin.

27:51So I've got to make some calls. And then lastly, I know I am blabbing so hard right now. One of the depths that I am very, very invested in, and I think this is, this kind of crosses over into some other things we're mentioning in society right now, but Carl Grillmare, he was a Caltech astrophysicist, reportedly a genius who's doing amazing work in finding water on other planets. He lived in Lano, California, in a very isolated area. I mean, you can pull up the map and you can just see his house very isolated. So in December of 2025, he sees a guy walking on his property, who we now know as Freddy Snyder, carrying a rifle.

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28:35And he's freaked out, obviously. So he calls 911. Freddy Snyder gets arrested. He says, oh, I was going to the post office. I just needed this to protect myself against wild animals. Well, the post office was was the other way. And he gets arrested. And for whatever reason, you know, they give him a felonies charge. And I shouldn't say for whatever reason, the for whatever reason is they let him go. They release him R.O.R. after that felonies charge. And by February 6th, prosecutors drop the charge entirely. The judge dropped the charge entirely. there's some kind of California penal code where essentially it says in lay terms, if you don't have any priors, you know, something like this would make sense.

29:19We're going to drop this. We're not going to keep you coming back to court, et cetera. Well, that was February 5th. By February 16th, Freddie Snyder allegedly goes back and shoots Carl Grillmare in the torso on his porch at his home. And now Freddie Snyder is sitting at Twin Towers. I'm assuming, you know, pretty close to Nick Reiner and waiting arraignment. He gets arraigned April 29th. So what's crazy is that California is so ridiculous with their, uh, their court dockets and their papers. I've had to write letters to get indictments. I've had to send FOIA requests here. Um, but one thing I will say is Carl Grilmer's wife has spoken out.

29:58Uh, I was right before I went on news nation last week, the producers, we were all kind of diving in, they were making calls and his wife said, it's not connected to any of these other scientists. That's her belief. Neil McCaslin's wife came out and said it's not connected. The Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office in New Mexico has said enough with the conspiracy theories. I get it. I totally get it. Neil McCaslin's wife also works in aerospace research. And Carl Grillmare's wife, she's a widow. She probably saw this crazy person with her own eyes. But my question is, why was he released? Why was he there?

30:36He was absolutely targeting him for a reason. This house is way too isolated. And reportedly, he did live in the area, this Freddy Snyder guy. And neighbors, I say neighbors because it's miles apart, they said he was a little unhinged. I mean, it's bothering me. I can't help it. It's bothering me. If you look at every individual case, it is a possible explanation. And yet, in no way, the widows, of course, they don't want to be harassed. And anybody who's watching this, please don't harass these people. Right. And, you know, and leave them alone at the very least. Let's go. Let's go to the authorities.

31:10And those are the people who we can ask. But as you said, members of Congress and others, they're worried about this. That seems to be maybe an indication of something bigger. Maybe they're just responding to media pressure. But from your view, maybe not each individual case in totality, you see some sort of pattern. You originally opened with UFOs. Why did you make that connection to UFO? Yeah, it's funny because I always grew up thinking that they're bogus. They're just something in an alien movie. And the more research you do, the more you realize how important it is that we understand what a UAP is.

31:48And I'm calling it a UAP because it just sounds less crazy. It really does. And I do, I just feel like we're past the point of thinking, yes, aliens are going to come and invade our country. It's not about that. The House Oversight Committee wrote this letter in March, but they were stemming it from a congressional meeting they had, I think it was back in September. They really started to push again for transparency. And again, this is for the national security reasons. This is a threat. We need to know what is going on in order to defend ourselves as Americans. And I think I think it's really important.

32:28And what's so frustrating is that the the list of UAPs that were actually due on today. Oh, I'm sorry. It was yesterday, April 14th. They were due. No one from the Pentagon responded until Rep. Anna Luna had to reach out. So apparently, I mean, I was born at night, but not last night. Someone didn't pass the letter on to the proper authorities. So we're not getting it yet. But they claim that this is coming. This is coming. And the president authorized this release. So we're going to see it soon. I'm just like, OK, guys, release another Epstein dump for us. So we look this way while you guys ramble.

33:07It's coming. You know, it's so it's so annoying. It's just it's it's irritating. And it's like, this is our tax money also. This is our money, you know, going to this. I don't know how much. I'd like to know. I don't think we'll be told the truth. But I think, again, it's important to know that it's not just about Independence Day aliens sitting in glass, you know, cages in water. It's more than that. This is war. This is America's national defense. Yeah. Well, Lauren, thank you so much for your time. We've got another guest standing by. You were phenomenal. Everybody go follow Lauren on Twitter.

33:39We'll have a link down in the description. Appreciate your time and thank you for the work on this case. Thank you so much for having me and discussing it. Yeah, it's fun. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From iHeart Podcast, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam.

34:16I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you read me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine! For freedom! Land, get out! Freedom for Vietnam! Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting here's madness. There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon starting on April 22nd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

35:09Some thousands more U.S. troops are heading to the Middle East as Trump seeks to squeeze Iran. Professor, you have long held that these ceasefire talks and others remain either a cover or a delaying to the inevitable escalation to ground troops. Just confirm your hypothesis. How are you looking at this structurally? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, this is exactly what I'm saying. So we can pay attention to the rhetoric, which is the noise, or we can pay attention to the movement of troops, which is the signal. And what you are seeing is over and over and over again, this has been now in our seventh week of this of this war.

35:48There's all this noise about back and forth rhetoric. What does this mean or that mean coming out of the White House? But what you see are troop movements and those troop movements are going in one direction. There's not troop movements coming out. There's troop movements going in. And they're going in, just as I said, they're going to be limited. They're going to go in salami slicing, essentially. And that is what you are seeing. We are not on a path of peace. We are on a path. The war is metastasizing. And we are seeing thresholds being broken. There's multiple, and I'm glad to talk about those.

36:28But what you are really seeing is a path of escalation, and it is toward that stage three, and this is just going to build. Right. And so actually, if you could break that down for us, that would be very helpful. I'm sure everybody, when you said I could do it, everyone in the audience was like, yes, please, including us, Professor. So that's right. So so is and our audience really is familiar with stage one, stage two, stage three, where stage three is coming to the limited ground operations, which could expand. But let me just unpack what I mean by breaking threshold. So what we are seeing since the talks, since J.D.

37:06Vance came out of Pakistan in his three-minute speech, which everybody should go and listen to, that three-minute speech was important for a couple reasons. Number one, he made absolutely blisteringly clear that we are not going to make concessions in the United States. We're going to choose escalation over concessions. And number two, he made blisteringly clear he personally is on board with the escalation. So the hope that we had J.D. Vance was going to kind of push us over to another side, that really has disappeared. Now, what you are seeing with the military blockade is, and I can understand why people are confused.

37:49I've studied these for 30 years. This is part of that repertoire of what I study. What you are seeing is it's breaking thresholds, including just this morning with the news out of Iran. So number one, it's breaking a threshold in the region where now the United States is using military force to shut down Hormuz against Iran. And what that is doing is widening the war inside of the region because Iran, as completely predictably, has just responded by you do this. We're going to shut down that other choke point or they'll try that other choke point in the Red Sea. So that would take another hunk of oil off the market here if they do that.

38:37And the Houthis, they have the excellent proxy with which to do that. And of course, they have their missiles and drones. But number two, another threshold that's being crossed here is notice that it's China who gets a lot of the oil and who has flagged some ships. So what this means is that U.S. naval blockade is now going right up against China. Now, we have not sunk a ship. We have not, you know, but this is an act of war. A naval blockade is not a political statement. It's an act of war. It says you either go back or we sink you. We shoot you. That is a very, very important threshold because obviously China now is this is another actor and that actor's got 600 nuclear weapons.

39:33So we need to understand this is not, again, going up against, you know, Panama, Greenland. We're breaking real thresholds here. And then there's the third threshold, which is when you bottle up the entire Strait of Hormuz and then possibly also now the Red Sea gets in, gets bottled up with this. This is essentially another threshold here where you're locking in the consequences for the world's economy for at least weeks, if not months from now. And there's already the stories, the different economic organizations are starting to come out on my sub stack this week. I have a very I wrote this on the plane back and forth from London.

40:14So I have this long explanation of what happens in these blockades so people can understand the consequences for the world's economy over time. Forty five day, 60 day, 90 day. And this is just now locking in that analysis here. So we are really heading to not just it won't just be like one giant cliff. I'm explaining there's a series of decline, a little bit like roller coaster, a series of these declines, which you need, which we need to expect. And the markets just simply aren't paying attention. Yeah, Professor, I saw your comments. Well, yeah. And I think it's very important to underscore what you're trying.

40:52The Trump administration has done. I mean, honestly, a shockingly good job of job owning the oil markets and stock market. They have convinced them that the blockade or a ceasefire will inevitably lead to some sort of memorandum of understanding that will return to normal. You have consistently maintained that is absolutely not going to happen. And yeah, I do want to go a little bit into your first thesis, which I think really struck a lot of our viewers and myself, is about how Iran has become this new world power. And a piece of news that I instantly thought of you with is F4. Let's put this up there on the screen was this U.S.

41:30carrier, the George H.W. Bush, which has been revealed has had to sail around the entire continent of Africa rather than transit through the Red Sea, specifically because of fear of the Houthis in the Bab al-Mendeb Strait. I mean, what do you make of that for this, you know, reflection of power that Iran can project to force a multi-billion dollar, you know, multi-multi-billion dollar aircraft? You are just so on it. And I really, this is one of the reasons I love coming on because you're not just hearing my words, you're seeing the implications with the new piece of information. So what you are seeing here is a power projection capability by Iran.

42:13So we are used to thinking of Iran back in pre-February 2028 time period, where we're thinking we've been told Iran is crushed, it's on its last legs, just one more nudge, and there's this pro-democracy movement that's totally going to take over. This was always extremely unrealistic. It was the most exaggerated version of the weakness of Iran, which was just right. Well, what the reality is, and you see this with their drones here, is that as their drones have reach, and missiles have reach, it's not just about a short-term thing. They have reach across the region and even further than that. You would not have our carriers essentially a thousand miles away here if that was not for Iran's power projection capability.

43:12Well, power projection is what we define. Well, one of the leading indicators of a world power. And notice Secretary Higsaw said in his briefings, which he has now stopped giving, of course, but what he said in his briefings was, we've taken away their power projection capability. No, we haven't. That's that victory rhetoric meeting escalation reality, which you're now demonstrating here. And this is also, by the way, when the Iranians are making their threat this morning, they're not simply saying this is only going to be a threat to the Red Sea choke point with the Houthis. We need to understand those destroyers here that are within range now, there are 300 sailors on those destroyers.

43:58Now, they don't have to be sunk for those people to be hurt and killed. You can have fires. You can have a lot of things happen under those attacks, which is why none of the oil tankers themselves want to go through and risk this, you see. So this is an extremely tense situation. So we are not de-escalating the situation. We are escalating the situation. And let me just add one more point here, if I might, because I'm getting this in emails from some really smart people who aren't yet ready to say we can I can identify them and we can go. But these are not these are these are really, really smart people.

44:38And what they're asking me is, why exactly, Bob, that's what they call me, Bob, why exactly won't the Iranians make the concession? Because after all, aren't they facing all of this pressure? And here's the fundamental thing that people need to hear, which is if Iran makes a concession, say gives up its nuclear material or gives up the power over the Strait of Hormuz, that makes Iran more vulnerable. You see, the problem here is that the United States and Israel, if they get more, if they get concessions, they can pocket those concessions. And that weakens Iran. Those are actual power tool, power assets for Iran.

45:30And it makes Iran more vulnerable. It's more likely that Iran will be attacked by Israel and the United States directly if it doesn't have a nuclear deterrent. It just is. It's also more likely that it will be attacked in one way or another for whatever reason if it gives up world power. And we have history here. The Ukrainians gave up their nuclear weapons. Gaddafi gave up his movement toward nuclear weapons. And look at what happened to those states. OK, this is not a good history. You can also look at the Soviet Union, the Soviet Union, the end of the Cold War. You can say, well, they gave up world power, global power.

46:13What? They're a basket case right now. Putin is is is barely keeping two percent of it used to be the Soviet Union had 15 percent of the world's economy. Now they have two percent. And what is Putin doing? He's fighting back to get it back. So you look at the history of all this, and that history is, you may, and by the way, the United States promised in all those three cases, you were going to have an enormously beautiful future, just like Donald Trump. I mean, literally, those other presidents, right out of Donald Trump's page, it's going to be beautiful. And it's not, because they're vulnerable.

46:51So this is really the problem. We're asking Iran to take sucker deals that other states have taken in the past, in their lifetime, and it just is not working out. Because what's happening is when the Soviet Union basically gave up power, we rode NATO right up to its doorstep. You see, that is what I mean by vulnerability. So if Iran gives this stuff up, this is not making Iran safe. This means Iran has a really, really even worse future over the next five or 10 years. And we're hearing the Israeli right already talking about Turkey. No surprise there, but. Oh, there you go. This is another, and Turkey doesn't have nuclear weapons yet.

47:39Okay, so I'm just pointing out that we are teaching the world, you know, So, yeah, it's nice to be, you know, send Donald Trump, you know, some presence, but better get a bomb. Yeah, that's right. And, Professor, I wanted to ask, actually, we're sifting through this enormous amount of propaganda. What do you think actually is the sticking point at the end of the day for both the Trump administration and the Iranians just looking ahead? Because as we look at what what seems to have fizzled last weekend, what could that tell us about if there are more Islamabad talks? Yeah, that's a great question.

48:15And I would say, again, the three minute clip by J.D. Vance when he came out is really important here for everybody to watch. It's not just another one of the clips here, because what J.D. Vance did is he zeroed in directly on the nuclear enrichment that Iran is going to become a nuclear weapons state. And I've been saying here in the Substack, in the live briefings on the Substack, this is actually the taproot, not just of this crisis, but the whole military antagonistic relationship with Iran going back to 2002 and 2003. We had a politically antagonistic relationship from 79 to 2002. But once Iran started to enrich uranium, this really took it to a new level.

49:08And what you see is all this talk that all this confusion about the goals. Yeah, absolutely. Donald Trump's all over the place in what he posts. But there is a core through line here. And that core through line is Iran is enriching uranium. And we are teaching it, by the way, in these 25 years that their only chance of real survival is to get that is to translate it into a weapon. And what you're seeing is J.D. Vance is right on that. He's explaining that. And that is what the Trump administration really is going to have to concede. They're going to have to make a choice. If they want to get Iran to allow ships to pass through the Strait of Hormuz here, then that is going to come at the expense of Iran acquiring nuclear weapons in about a year, maybe a year and a half.

50:02and they can talk out of both sides of their mouth all they want to. But the bottom line is, this is what is becoming more and more in Iran's rational security interests. And if we had a hope of this not happening, it was the Obama deal. And everything since Trump ripped that up has been making everything worse. Professor, last question for you on my end here is, it's possible that we get no deal and Trump just declares some sort of unilateral walk away and a permanent blockade. What do you think would happen as a result of that? Iran would attack, you know, the Bab al-Mandab strait. They would escalate.

50:42Maybe they wouldn't, and they would just suffer economic pain. That will just be that path. So there's path four, which is we let Iran become the fourth center of world power. You're seeing Trump doesn't want to do that. But that there's only two choices. Either you do path four, stage four, or you do stage three. There's no going back to Feb 27. So stage three is where you're moving along the path of escalation. And the real consequences here of you say that, you know, we're talking about that permanent blockade, is going to be that, first of all, within the region, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, They're all going to see their GDPs decline by 20, 30 percent or more here in the next coming months.

51:30It's all going to go over a clip for them. But then also you're going to see that for the world economy, you're going to see that this pattern here. And basically what happens is up till day 45 of a oil blockade of some kind, you have prices go up. Then from 45 to day 60, you start to get actual shortages. And then from day 60 to 90, that's when you get economic contraction. And then you get the prices keep going up, the shortages get worse, and the contractions start to happen. And that gets baked in. And what we're going to see here, if you take that blockade as like a permanent blockade, is yes, you will stop Iran from becoming that world center of power, at least without them fighting for it.

52:19But at the price here of taking the world's economy over the cliffs. Right. And that is not going to make the world happy with the United States. And probably losing more American soldiers. almost surely here because the idea that iran will not iran was willing uh to attack the gulf states they were also willing to kill 20 or 30 000 of their own people so the idea that and they also have already bombed american bases so what those um vessels are are essentially floating American bases. So if Iran was willing to bomb American bases in the region, I really think the idea they're going to be scared to bomb the ships here, I don't think so.

53:10I think they're going to be probably playing some tactical games here. They're going to be thinking through what's their best way to go forward. And they probably would really like China to go through and force the blockade to confront China, because all that does is put China even more deeply in their camp. So if you're wondering why they're not already firing back and forth, it's because there really are, you know, there's a long game here. And Iran has played it pretty well. So far, we're not playing it very well. And as we go forward here, getting China more deeply on Iran's side, you know, it's It's already got Pakistan working with it, and they've got 60 to 100 nuclear weapons.

53:56You bring in China, that's 600. And now, of course, you've got Putin. So you're really building this coalition here for Iran. We're helping Iran build it. Yeah. Well, Professor, as always, you're so enlightening. Escalation Trap on Substack, link down in the description. And we will see you later, sir. Thank you very much for joining us. Absolutely. Thanks again. Great, great, great session. Great discussion. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. Thank you, Emily. It's been great. Had fun. Gotta keep the arm down in the show tomorrow with Crystal. Crystal backs tomorrow. We'll see you guys then.

54:29See you, everyone.

54:44This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From iHeart Podcast, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you read me? They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine! For freedom! Let's get out!

55:25Freedom! Call me at night! Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness! There's a fire coming to this country, and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon, starting on April 22nd, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. From iHeart Podcast, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. They're pouring petrol. Freedom for Vietnam! There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything.

56:06Listen to Saigon starting on April 22nd on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

From the publisher

Emily and Saagar discuss Lebanon invasion doomed, scientists go missing, Professor Pape on Trump ceasefire. 

 

Lauren Conlin: https://x.com/conlin_lauren  

Shaiel Ben-Ephraim: https://x.com/academic_la 

Robert Pape: https://escalationtrap.substack.com/ 

 


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