4/20/26: Kash Patel Meltdown, Sam Harris Smears Zohran, Pro-Trump AI Bots Exposed, Cuba Under New Trump Threat

22:10Ryan Grim:Yes. He's not coming in supporting him on LGBT rights. His abundance housing agenda or whatever, yeah. Yeah, right, exactly. He's saying, no, like this is public social policy. We need the public sector to invest in people. and put a positive, fun face on it. Yeah. And I have to think that Obama sort of sees himself in Zoran, you know, like... Oh, because he's a young guy, grew up overseas. He's a Muslim socialist from Africa. Exactly, just like Obama. Just like Obama. With a weird name, you know? With a weird name. No, I think he has to sort of see himself a bit in Zoran and recognizes for his own...

22:55Ryan Grim:Obama's very interested in legacy preservation, which I think was part of his opposition to Bernie. Because if Bernie came in and, like, was doing Medicare for all, well, that makes Obamacare look bad, right? So it was kind of like a direct attack on his legacy, right? But with Zoran, he sees, oh, this is the young new thing. and I need to associate myself and my brand with this guy who is, you know, not only really built this political movement, captured a lot of attention, really, you know, captured the imagination of a lot of people, but that this is kind of where the party is going and I need to associate myself with this direction for his own sort of strategic branding purposes, which is another sign of sort of like victory for not just Zoran, but the segment of the Democratic Party that he represents.

23:43Absolutely. And if Obama is coming to the Mamdani wing, then welcome him in. Because if you can have, that's exactly right. Like if you can go to the normie, you know, Democratic primary voter and say, Obama's good with this. Like whatever the thing is that they're pushing, then you have completely boxed out the opposition. Like where, where is, where are Hillary and Schumer going to get purchase if they're coming at the, a party that goes from Bernie Sanders to Obama? Like where, like where's the space for opposition there? It just completely collapses.

24:27Ryan Grim:Yeah. So if, if Mamdani can keep playing to his, uh, his, his ego and his sense legacy. And, you know, the other the other thing is it's this is not class war. This is not, you know, tax the super rich. This is the feel good side of social democracy, which is children should get a good education. They should get child care. It's easier for Obama to agree to. Yeah. Then saying. Ken Griffin should pay for it. Right. Although that video did just come out when Obama arrived. To me, that is also the feel-good part of the democratic socialist agenda, personally, for me. Some, had to play this from Sam Harris, so just to give a sense of how unhinged some of the commentary from, you know, someone who I guess I would describe himself as a liberal has been in the views of Zoran.

25:19Ryan Grim:And I mean, frankly, like, there's no way you could describe what you're about to watch Sam Harris say other than it's just blatantly, like, bigoted and racist and totally disconnected from the reality of Zoran and what his political project actually is. Let's go ahead and take a listen to this. A few comments here. I'm sorry, but Sam, equating Mom Donnie to Trump is insane. He's infinitely more ethical than any person in the Republican Party. What do you have to say? So apologies for one point of confusion there, which really is confusion. He's not the equivalent of Trump. He's a very different sort of character than Trump, right?

25:52But also one who we should want nothing to do with politically. I think he's a, he's an act, I think he's a sinister figure. I think he's a, a, a none too closeted, um, Islamist or, or, or at, uh, at minimum apologists for an apologist for Islamists. He's not, uh, ethically sane by my lights at all, though he can seem to be somebody who really just cares about, you know, people who are finding it hard to make ends meet in, uh, in New York. Right. But if you double click on many of his political allegiances and the kinds of things his, you know, his wife likes on social media and all of that, what you get is a picture of someone who's captured by a fairly sinister theocratic agenda and an anti-Semitic one.

26:46You know, this is not about garbage trucks and, you know, cleaning up Central Park and really helping the city. The thing that really seems to animate him are these political concerns that don't have a lot to do with being mayor and have a lot to do with Israel and Islam. He's not the worst person you might find in that vein, but he's far too close to being a shill for Islamist theocrats than I would want running a major American city to say nothing of our government. So if we had a Mamdani character who was a viable presidential candidate who had these kinds of ties to obvious anti-Semites and Islamists and Muslim Brotherhood adjacent evil, I would find that genuinely terrifying.

27:39Ryan Grim:So he describes him as a sinister, none-too-closeted Islamist. And Sam Harris, who supports genocide, wants us to know that it's Zoran who's not ethically, quote, sane. I mean, it doesn't even make me mad because it's so preposterous that it's just absurd. It would be like arguing that, you know, in reality, Zoran has wings and he can fly. I mean, that's how connected to reality this is. And, you know, I don't think it lands with anyone. It apparently even like, you know, Trump, who loves to play all sorts of fear mongering about, oh, my God, they're communists. They're this. They're that. I mean, obviously, it didn't even land with Trump.

28:17Ryan Grim:So I can't imagine there are a lot of people out there who are really thinking that Zoran is a sinister Islamist who is really secretly harboring this theocratic agenda. And I love to, Ryan, how he is like what he's really about are all these things with regard to Islam and Israel. It's like actually on a day-to-day basis what he's talking about is, hey, let's have child care. Let's do buses. Let's do grocery stores, et cetera. And it was Cuomo and his opponents in that race who wanted to make it all about Israel and Zoran's views on Israel. Yeah. Sam Harris has so much contempt and hostility for religion in general and Islam in particular that it really has sent him around the bend.

28:59And so he doesn't even make sense anymore. anymore. Like you, you watch that and you're like, this is completely incoherent. And it forces him to reach to like his wife's Instagram posts, which are just condemning genocide.

29:15Ryan Grim:Well, and I like too, that that is the only, on that whole screen about how he's, you know, this bigot and this Islamist and this anti-semi blah, blah, blah. He doesn't offer a single example, the only example he cites is some social media likes from Zoran's wife, some of which the posts that they highlighted were when she was like 15 years old too. That's the evidence you have for making these really quite extraordinary claims about the mayor of New York City. Yeah. And I feel like the moment for this kind of person has kind of passed. Like there was some, There was some purchase around this level of hatred a while ago, but I just don't think it's there anymore.

29:57And it's like not too closeted. I don't know. If he is a secret Islamist jihadist or whatever, it's pretty well closeted.

30:06Ryan Grim:It's fooling a lot of people. Yes, that's deep in the closet. Not fooling Sam Harris, though. Let's go ahead and get to this Michigan state convention that happened over the weekend because this also speaks to the future of the Democratic Party. So the Senate race in Michigan closely watched. You've got Haley Stevens, who is definitely like the Chuck Schumer, APAC, overtly Zionist candidate. OK, so that's her. Then you've got Mallory McMorrow, who has tried to strike this middle ground and recognizes where the base is, trying to signal that she put on a whole thing. I'm not going to take AIPAC money, but you guys reported her team had submitted an AIPAC policy paper.

30:49Ryan Grim:So she's been trying to kind of split the difference and find a lane there where she can be not too scary to the more conservatives and also not evil to the rest of the party. And then you've got Abdul El-Sayed, who, you know, Bernie Sanders supporter, Medicare for All, out front opposing genocide, you know, being very clear-throated about, you know, being very clear about all his views on all of those things. So that's sort of the range of the candidates. And extraordinary to see what happened at this Michigan State Democratic Convention. I've been to these things. I'm sure you've been to these things.

31:24Ryan Grim:These are your rock solid, vote blue no matter who, Democratic activists, the ladies who were like manning the phone banks and the young people who were going out in field camps. Like this is the diehards of the diehards, normie Democrats, right? Haley Stevens, who is a sitting member of Congress, Haley Stevens got booed when she got up to speak. throughout her entire speech. She was booed by this group of just normal Democratic voters. Let's go ahead and take a listen to how that went down.

32:21Ryan Grim:So I don't think I've ever seen something like that, like of a sitting Democratic representative who is actively booed at a state convention like this. And then McMorrow apparently was sort of like, you know, she got a decent reception. But then at the end, everyone is chanting Abdul. And then Abdul just gets this rock star reception where people are going crazy for him. And he had huge crowds and the enthusiasm was through the roof. Yeah, and all the way through Haley Stevens' speech. Yes. Relentless. She tried to use Unite Here and other unions as kind of human shields. She kept mentioning them.

32:56Like, you really going to boo the UAW and boo the Unite Here? Like, come on. They're like, yeah, we are. No, we're booing you. Yeah. And now it also speaks to El Saeed's ability to organize his supporters, because he clearly got, a lot of those are his people who showed up to this convention. But you're right. This state party convention, this is deeply unusual to have Schumer's candidate. That's Schumer's recruited candidate getting absolutely savaged all the way through. Now, there was also a critical attorney general race at this convention. between the Oakland County, was kind of, the Oakland County prosecutor was the kind of, McDonald was her name, Karen McDonald, actually a progressive prosecutor when she first ran, I think like Soros backed and like in that wing, but this time was the, known as the establishment candidate, had the support of all of these kind of Michigan Board of Regents people who, if you remember, during the 2024 encampments, worked with Dana Nessel, to smear and then try to prosecute a whole bunch of these felonies, these student protesters that fell apart.

34:14Dana Nessel then came under a lot of criticism for that, and then it created this giant thing where, you remember her fight that she had with Rachida Tlaib and Jake Tapper. And so that candidate lost, that prosecutor lost the attorney general nomination. But even worse for them, this guy Jordan Acker, who was one of the leading kind of regents pushing to have these students prosecuted, was challenged by a Dearborn attorney, Amir Makhled, who in the days leading up to the race was, you know, Detroit News and others came after him because he had retweeted Candace Owens calling Israelis demons. and what they said was praise for Hassan Nasrallah and Hezbollah.

35:06And he beat Acker at this convention. Wow. So now Acker himself is facing this massive controversy from this Guardian report where a bunch of his like really foul slack messages emerged. Just kind of gross stuff across the board. So that certainly hurt Acker as well. but yeah it's not enough to like link somebody to like Hezbollah and Candace Owens and knock them out he still knocked out

35:38Ryan Grim:this border region candidate at this very convention that you guys saw there I don't think that a lot of Democratic electeds have really grappled with how much the base has shifted and that this isn't I see all kinds of cope on the timeline now but oh this isn't representative and blah blah blah It's like, you know, these are your normie Democratic voters, right? This is a sign. And Harry Enten just did a piece last week of like, there is no divide in the Democratic Party on Israel. There is a divide between the base and leadership. But in terms of where the base is, there is no divide with regard to policy on Israel, AIPAC, Palestine, Middle East, more broadly.

36:18Ryan Grim:And so, you know, you are going to have a – you're having that reckoning. I was thinking about the fact, too. It was just 2022 when Haley Stevens won in a primary against Andy Lemon, who was more progressive and is like a liberal Zionist. And she was able to defeat him, I think, pretty soundly in that primary. That was just four years ago to show you how quickly. There's no way she wins. Today, that primary, not a chance she wins a Democratic primary against him in these conditions. Yeah, I think that's right. And that was such a pivotal race, too, because Andy Levin was a synagogue president, called himself a liberal Zionist, but would always defend Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar against charges of anti-Semitism and saying, no, they have legitimate, serious criticisms of Israel that need to be listened to.

37:12And you should not be smearing them for them because they are right about what they're saying here, one, two and three. and AIPAC was very explicit that they considered him a more serious threat in some ways than Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar because of the credibility that being a synagogue president gives you on that issue and so spent millions backing Stevens over him. But I think you're right that he would win. And this is the Levin's dynasty. That's not a small thing. Sandy Levin, Carl Levin, they go way back in Michigan. So to be able to knock him out was a real flex of their power that I don't think they have anymore.

37:51And I think that, and you talked about the Jesus Christ statue with Emily earlier, right? Yeah. So that happened in Southern Lebanon. And I think a lot of the Democratic voting bases are a lot more sophisticated about this stuff right now. They actually, a lot of them know that Hezbollah was born out of this Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon. And so it's like, this guy is saying nice things about Hezbollah. People are like, well, maybe Israel shouldn't be occupying southern Lebanon, destroying statues of Christ, blowing up, using white phosphorus, blowing up villages, Christian and Muslim.

38:28And so the charge that he said something nice about Hezbollah doesn't land the same way when people have a more fulsome understanding of who Hezbollah is resisting.

38:40Ryan Grim:I think it's also just the charge of anti-Semitism has been so overplayed. that, you know, it unfortunately becomes almost like a badge of honor. Like, oh, if you're being smeared, you probably did something right. You probably did something morally courageous because that's the upside down that we live in now, where if you dare to oppose the genocide and say, hey, we shouldn't be sending, you know, bombs and bulldozers to murder people and destroy entire villages, then you get tagged as an anti-Semite. So I think that's part of what it is, too, is, you know, in a similar way that, and I'm not equating the two, but in a similar way that for a lot of people, the, you know, that the hated media establishment hated Trump and that these like liberal villains hated Trump, that was a signal to them, oh, this guy must be pretty good then.

39:29Ryan Grim:If he's pissing off all the right people. I think there's a similar dynamic here too of like, oh, you're pissing off the right people. You must be the candidate for me. And I do think that the whole Hassan Piker freak out, manufactured freak out, because Abdul Syed brought him in to have a rally and there was a whole like, do you condemn Hassan Piker? And Mallory McMorrow threw in with Haley Stevens and the side that said, no, we should not associate with Hassan Piker. I think that has really backfired. You know, it has given Abdul a lot of momentum because it clarified for people where everybody stood in the race.

40:02Ryan Grim:And the Democratic base is looking for candidates like Abdul. And Mallory McMorrow up to that point had done a good job of being like, I'm more or less like with him where he is. And, you know, that kind of revealed it's an issue where it's hard to straddle the line. And it revealed, OK, no, she's on that side. So we're consolidating behind Abdul. And he is the one, if you believe, the polls that has all the momentum in the race right now. He was, you know, hanging in there in third, but like pretty close behind, but in third consistently in the polls. Now he's either he's, you know, more or less tied for the lead with her and is gaining steam at obviously the most critical time as you head into primary day.

40:39Yeah. And we talked about this last week. We did that poll with DropSite and Zateo where we asked, basically, is AIPAC a proxy for you? And if somebody is willing to stand up, if somebody is not willing to stand up to AIPAC, do you think that they will sell you out on other issues? Yeah. And something like 70 plus percent of Democratic primary voters were like, yes, I agree with that statement. So people are like, oh, this is just a foreign policy issue. It's just a few million people over the Middle East. No, to them, we're busy people. It's hard for us to figure out who we can put our trust in to represent us in Washington.

41:18And so you need to look for these clues.

41:21Ryan Grim:It's a signal of character. For a while, it used to be Medicare. If they say they support Medicare for all, that's going to cost them a lot of corporate donors. and that's a signal to me that of where they stand. Yep. And so even if you already had health insurance and wasn't your number one issue, it's like, okay, I get it. I'm with this person over here because they said that. Now it's this, I will not take AIPAC money. Yeah, and one last thing on this because I'm also seeing a lot of commentary about, oh, Jewish Democrats are politically homeless. It is disgusting and just incorrect to assume that all Jews, period, support the murderous genocidal actions of the Israeli terror state.

41:57Ryan Grim:I mean, that is actually anti-Semitic and disgusting. And just factually, it's just not true. There was a poll recently that came out about how a large percentage of Jewish Americans also oppose AIPAC and are looking for candidates that oppose AIPAC and refuse their dollars. So people need to stop with this nonsense. I mean, historically, Jewish Americans have been some of the strongest supporters of civil rights, of social justice, of universal human rights. And that tradition, you know, continues to this day. Not saying that it's uniform across the board. Of course, there is a lot of pro-Israel sentiment within, you know, I mean, this is like a culture that you're raised in and that's going to have an impact.

42:36Ryan Grim:There's no doubt about it. But to paint with this broad brush and say, oh, well, Jewish Democrats are politically homeless now because we've got candidates who refuse to support a genocide, I think it's just utterly disgusting. All right, let's go ahead and talk about these AI avatars that are now being used to push the Iran war.

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44:56Ryan Grim:So as the number of actual real-life human being supporters of the war in Iran on the American side dwindle, apparently that's not a big problem because you can just use AI to create fake humans and push your pro-war propaganda. Let's go ahead and take a look at some of the characters that are being created. If this offends, you could keep scrolling. But if you love Trump, you just gained a follower. Hit follow. If this offends, you could keep scrolling. But if you love Trump, you just gained a follower. Hit follow. If this offends, you could keep scrolling. But if you love Trump, you just gained a follower.

45:32Ryan Grim:Hit follow. If this offends, you could keep scrolling. But if you love Trump, you just gained a follower. Hit follow. It's not too sophisticated there, I would say. For people who are just listening, You've got very beautiful women who are all in military, either casual or actually in uniform. And they're obviously all saying the exact same line. Were you offended? I'm totally offended. Very awkward cadence there, too. If this offends you, keep scrolling. But I don't know. It's both very dystopian and bleak. And also kind of pathetic because the Trump coalition is really falling apart at this point.

46:18Ryan Grim:And the, you know, Iran pro-Iran war coalition never really existed to begin with. So it feels like, you know, this is kind of last ditch effort to gin up some sort of public support. The problem is, of course, it's going to they're going to get so much better. Like, OK, they're they're like embarrassingly bad now. Yeah. But pretty soon it's going to be pretty hard to tell the difference. between, you know, real people and fake ones on there. People already have a very hard time telling the bots from real people. And then the real people start acting more like bots. True. As it just kind of infuses the...

47:01With culture. And we all get dumber. True. And if your sense of where the public is on an issue comes from your interactions, online, what happens when you can't tell whether something's real or not, and you're just getting bombarded by these beautiful women telling you that your position is correct and that you just gained a follower? It's like, wait, how did that happen? How did I gain a follower?

47:33Ryan Grim:Yeah. Well, and we're already at the place where, look, it's easy for us to look at these because because this is part of a news article about how these are fake and be like, oh, these are obviously fake. But it is already at the point where it's hard to tell. It's already at the point. And also to your point where the humans are behaving enough like bots where it's difficult to distinguish between bot behavior and human behavior. Because we're all such like so many like mindless sheep out there who would post something like this. And it also allows real things to be covered up. So yesterday, we talked earlier in the show about the Israeli soldier smashing the statue of Christ in southern Lebanon.

48:17Yunus Terawi posted that. After he posted, I reached out to him. It's like, hey, can you show me where this came from originally? And he showed me the account. And so I'm like, oh, yeah, this is definitely 100 % real. So I shared that and I reported this. This is real. I've confirmed this. And even despite that, and despite people knowing that I'm a journalist with 20 years of history of getting things right, a lot of people were like, no, it's not. It's AI. Grok says it's AI. This chatbot says it's AI. And I bet there are still people to this day, today, despite Netanyahu coming out and confirming that it's real and apologizing for it, are still saying it's AI.

48:59Ryan Grim:Yeah. And the better that AI gets, then the more it's going to give people the ability to just say, well, this thing that I don't want to confront politically is AI. And if people won't do that, you can have AI bots come out and say that this thing is AI. Yeah. And so if it's impossible to understand what a true will of the people is, how do you allow people – how does that become expressed publicly? Like, what is a democracy? Like, what are the forms of democracy that can even exist if you don't have any idea of what's what the what the will of the people is and what's producing that will? How do you measure it?

49:42So, yeah, this is like the beginning of the end of like an era kind of thing.

49:46Ryan Grim:Remember Trump saying that the pro-Iranian government celebrations in the streets were AI? Mm hmm. Yeah. It's very possible he actually. Even though the New York Times had a reporter there filming it. Yeah. Yeah, he probably might have believed it. So very not at all hard to imagine the president of the United States getting taken in by AI scams and believing, you know, whoever is telling, oh, that's not real. That's fake. You know, don't worry about that. Actually, they're on the verge of collapse. And so even someone who should have access to the best information on the planet is a boomer, adult brain who wants to believe whatever he wants to believe and is easily taken in by this crime.

50:29Ryan Grim:So no, we're already through the looking glass. We're already in the dystopia. Or all of the images of horror, your example of the desecration of that Jesus statue is a perfect one. But there were so many times over the course of the genocide in Gaza where the allegation went, oh, this is staged, this isn't real, this is AI, et cetera. And if you're a person who doesn't want to believe that Israel is capable of these horrific crimes, that's a very comfortable space for your brain to go in. And then you can just, any images you see that don't accord with the way you want reality to be, you can just easily dismiss and push to the side.

51:06Yep. Yep, exactly. And whether you believe it's AI or not, you can just claim you do. And then just move on.

51:13Ryan Grim:Yeah. So you've got the actual AI that is deceiving people. You've got the allegations that real things are AI that are deceiving people. And no one seems to be really leading the charge to do anything about the complete destruction of any sort of shared sense of reality in our society. And at the same time, I wanted to put E3 up on the screen just because, again, this is very tied in with what's going on with AI and the development we're at. The job market in Hollywood is completely collapsing. Now, this is not all AI. There's a lot that's going on there that we could have Griffin on to talk a lot about.

51:46Ryan Grim:But one thing that is also, you know, very likely to upend this entire significant industry that is a major cultural, it's important culturally, obviously, for sort of like American soft power around the world, but also just important as an industry that creates jobs in America and creative output, AI is going to be very transformational there. And we're also already seeing the way with, you know, programmers coming out of college, the way those jobs are being destroyed. So all kinds of negative impacts already showing up in the numbers. Yeah. Hollywood was already facing, Hollywood and Los Angeles facing this kind of ghost town problem before AI really picked up with, you know, whether it was Atlanta or Canada or around the world, you know, picking up shoots and editors working around the world.

52:38To then also have kind of the back end production mostly eliminated.

52:45Ryan Grim:Automated, yeah. I mean, Los Angeles still have beautiful weather, but other than that, what's it going to do? Like, who's going to clean your mansion? Like, this is heading in a really dark direction unless people kind of grab control of it. Yeah. And actually value, like, human creative art and output, which, sorry, unfortunately, there's not a lot of side of, given the amount of slop that's already consumed and celebrated. Let's go ahead and turn to what's going on in Cuba. You know, we don't want to lose sight of that, given that Trump continues to make threats there and insists that, you know, after Iran, whenever that concludes, he's going to turn his eyes to Cuba.

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55:33According to new reporting from Zateo and also confirmed by USA Today, Cuba could be next. Donald Trump saying they might hit it on the way back from Iran, but sources telling Zateo and also USA Today that serious military plans are being drawn up, a foreign assault on the island. And President Trump himself was asked about, you know, how significant the planning is towards that type of military action. Let's take a look at how he parses what he's planning to do with Cuba. There have been reports that the Pentagon's preparing for military action in Cuba. Are those reports true? Is Cuba next? Well, it depends on what your definition of military action is.

56:20Would it look like Venezuela or Iran? Really, it does. It depends on what your definition of military action is, as Bill Clinton would say. You understand that? No, a lot of people don't understand that. Joining us to discuss this is Drop Sites Latin America Bureau Chief Jose Luis Granados Ceja. Jose Luis, thank you so much for being here. Jose just got back from Havana yesterday on a reporting trip. Thank you for being here. No, absolutely. Thank you so much for the invitation. Yeah, so what was the mood on the island when it comes to the question of whether or not there's going to be an American assault?

57:04I would first begin by saying that, you know, I talked to dozens of Cubans from, you know, hotel workers to people on the street to people engaged in private businesses to young journalists, government officials. Overall, the message from the Cuban population is that they want to have a peaceful coexistence with the United States. They want to have a positive relationship. They know that it's possible because it happened before. There was this diplomatic breakthrough with the Obama administration. Obviously, we know that Trump reversed that and then Biden kept it largely in place. And then Trump comes back and is actually doubling down on this policy.

57:40And now, of course, engaging in direct threats, threats of war. I think we shouldn't dance around the fact that this language is very bellicose, that when U.S. officials are asked about a potential military aggression, when they say, well, it depends what you mean, it doesn't really matter how they want to parse it. An aggression against Cuba is an act of war. And the Cuban population wants peace. But the other thing I would say is that there is an incredible determination by the Cuban population to resist, to defend their country, to defend their sovereignty. You know, they're in these negotiations with the U.S.

58:16government. They call them talks, dialogues, because, of course, Cuba says we're not going to negotiate our political system. We're not going to negotiate our sovereignty. But we want to find a peaceful resolution to this, a diplomatic solution to this. But I think they also want to send the message to the U.S. government, to the Pentagon, that this won't be easy, that this won't be, you know, a simple operation, that if they do engage in an act of war against them, that they should expect the entire Cuban population to resist. And that's because that's their military doctrine. It's called the war of all the people.

58:49And so you can talk to members of the Cuban militia, members of the Cuban armed forces, but even ordinary citizens who understand that there's a place for them. And this is overwhelmingly the attitude of the Cuban population, that they're willing to put their lives on the line to defend their country in the face of an aggression. And so I think there's been, you know, many military experts talking about the miscalculation that the United States made when it comes to Iran, engaging in aggression and receiving what arguably was an unexpected response. I think that would be similarly the case of Cuba, just a really firm determination by the Cuban people to defend their system.

59:25And yes, their socialist model. That is something that is also part of the discourse that we're hearing from the Cubans, from government officials, but also from the population. They defend their system. They're proud of it. You know, being in Cuba and experiencing it on the first hand, I hadn't been in 20 years. So I'd been a long time. You know, that drive, that passion that they have is still so present to share everything that they have, despite what admittedly, and everyone else will also tell you this, there are very challenging circumstances on the island right now. Yeah.

59:59Ryan Grim:Jose Luis, it's important that we know what kind of hotel you stayed in and also whether Hassan Piker was anywhere nearby before we can really discern the importance of your reporting here. Now, I am curious that what were what are the conditions on the ground? You know, day to day, has there been an easing? I know some fuel and supplies have been able to get in. So so what were you able to witness in regard to that? You know, the situation is dramatic. It's very difficult. You know, I was there attending the Patria Colloquium. It's the fifth one that they've had, and this one was held in very challenging circumstances.

1:00:34But despite that, you know, what we saw was a very well-run operation, people really going, you know, all out to try to perhaps insulate us a bit from the realities. But of course, it's undeniable, right? You know, there were power outages in the middle of a presentation, and we'd all have to patiently wait and wait for the power to come in or the generator to kick in so that, you know, the microphones would work again. and people would be able to participate in the event. You know, I stayed, if you want to know, paseo reforma. So I'm a Mexican citizen. I don't have to run my hotel stays by the U.S.

1:01:05government. I don't need to listen to those rules. I can stay wherever I want. And, you know, it's a modest hotel. But even then, right, because it happens to be next to a hospital, it counts on a regular supply of electricity. But you cross the street and the streets are blacked out because there is no power, right? You know, I expect that the young of that little bit of fuel that was able to come in, some of it was allocated to us so that we would make sure that we had, you know, diesel for the generators. But, you know, there was this one moment I went out one night to go to the corner store and there was one single light post that had electricity.

1:01:41And of course, all of the young people from that neighborhood were gathered there playing football in the streets because when there's no electricity, when it's too hot to stay inside your home, when there's, you know, no radio to listen to, no TV to watch, you know, internet is very limited because of the lack of electricity. It's not because of government censorship. You know, people get together and do what they can. And there's extraordinary resilience amongst the population to do what's best. But, you know, they will tell you the situation is very challenging. And the capital in a lot of ways is under the best of the circumstances on the island, right?

1:02:14If you talk to people who've been able to go into the provinces, they'll tell you it's not just about having our, you know, a couple of hours of power in the day. It's we're talking about a couple of hours of power throughout the week. You know, people will set an alarm or they'll make sure to leave their lights on in case the power comes up in the middle of the night. They wake up and they go and, you know, do what they need to do, run the washing machine, right? Like whatever requires power to charge up their equipment in the middle of the night because that's the only way it's possible, right?

1:02:43It is a very challenging circumstance. But I do think one thing I wanted to mention is just, you know, there's this saying that the Cubans use. It's something I've actually carried in my heart for a very long time, which is that it's not about giving what's left over. It's about sharing what we have. And even here, right, international guests come to visit. You know, they did everything they could to share the little that they have to make sure that the event could happen smoothly. But even, you know, the meals were very modest, admittedly. Right. We're talking about, you know, basically not enough calories to survive on.

1:03:13You know, this is very, very limited. But there they were giving us the little bit of meat that they have access to to make sure that we could be well fed so we could participate in the event. And that is the Cuban solidarity model. You know, and it's true of international events. You know, Ryan was there a few weeks ago for the Nostra America Convoys on a reporting trip as well. You know, I'm sure he saw the same thing of just this willingness to here's what we have. We know it's not a lot, but let's let's let's share it together. And, you know, that applies into its international policy as well.

1:03:42Right. We've seen this effort to crack down on the Cuban medical doctors program. But that, you know, there's a lot of propaganda around it from the U.S. side saying that it's slavery, you know, that it's, you know, it's abusive, that it's exploitative. No, you know, it is Cuba trying to share what it has. What does Cuba have? It doesn't have a lot of industry, but it does have a lot of doctors. And so it sends them throughout the world. And that is so much of what is representative of the Cuban people that often goes unmentioned in so much of the mainstream media, that the Cuban people really are, you know, an incredibly generous and loving population who want to talk to everybody who's willing to listen because they understand that the threat is really real.

1:04:23Certainly there is. I was also struck by the level of social cohesion kind of that that remained, because if if the U.S., for instance, was in a state of, you know, almost perpetual blackouts for extended periods of time, it would be it would be a deeply Hobbesian situation I think would be confronting. Interesting. Cubans here in the United States have a slightly kind of different version of solidarity as they as they express it. If we can put up F3, this is Representative Maria Elvira Salazar. She was sharing a poll in the Miami Herald that has Cuban Americans differing with non-Cuban Americans here in the United States, very strongly supporting a military attack on Cuba, whereas Americans, other than Cubans, very strongly oppose a U.S.

1:05:17attack on Cuba. And she says, Cuban Americans are sick of waiting for a free Cuba. The message is clear. The time for change in Cuba is now, and decisive U.S. military action to end the dictatorship has overwhelming support. We've always known this. President Trump knows it, and so does the regime. Freedom for Cuba is closer than ever, with or without resistance from dictator Diaz-Canel and the Castro criminal family. So, Jose, you actually interacted a bit with President Diaz-Canel. What was his reaction to the increasingly explicit threats from the U.S.? similar to the Cuban population, just a firm determination that they are going to resist.

1:06:05And he understands that it could quite possibly mean his life or his freedom, right? We're not sure exactly what the United States has planned. You know, in the clip you showed at the beginning, there was this mention, is it going to be like Venezuela? Is it going to be like Iran? Essentially, you know, we know that what they are likely aiming at is some kind of decapitation, right? But I would say that also the Cuban system is different. It is a system that is very consolidated, right, where the Cuban Communist Party has very firmly established itself in terms of all of the different various mechanisms of the state and of society.

1:06:40So even if there is a decapitation, even if they take out the leadership and the next line and the next line, the expectation is and the order, the instructions that are coming from the top is that it doesn't matter, that we will put the next person in line. And that next person understands that their responsibility is to continue to resist. You know, obviously, we don't know how things will play out and there could be a surprise. There could be elements that are less faithful. But my sense is that the Cuban leadership understands the stakes. You know, they understand that this is a life or death scenario.

1:07:14I mean, it effectively is already. The crisis is serious. And so they understand that it means having to put their lives on the line. And Diaz-Canel, like the Cuban population, are willing to say that in those explicit terms, that they understand what it means, but that they have a right to self-defense. They have a right to protect their sovereignty and to continue to face down these direct military aggressions. They want to emphasize, of course, as always, right, let's find a diplomatic solution to this. It is perfectly possible, but it's very difficult to feel like that's possible, especially when you read the reports.

1:07:51There was this recent report from The New York Times where they say the State Department official told The New York Times that the American delegation insisted that Mr. Trump was open to a diplomatic solution to the crisis, but signaled that the United States would not tolerate in resistance to its demands, which is to say, I mean, if you come to the negotiating table and you're not willing to concede anything, then you're not really negotiating anything, right? You are trying to extort the population by threats of violence. And those threats are real. We've seen them play out in Iran, but we've seen them play out in Latin America as well.

1:08:21So the leadership has been very vehement. And just to close on this, the gathering happened to coincide on very important dates in Cuban history. So there, of course, most of people will be familiar with the Bay of Pigs. The Bay of Pigs was preceded by the bombing of airports in Cuba where many Cubans died. And it was actually at one of the rallies held after that bombing on April 16th, 1961, where Fidel Castro declares the socialist character of the Cuban revolution, right? He says, this is what they cannot forgive. The fact that we are right here under their very noses and that we have carried out a socialist revolution right under the nose of the United States.

1:09:04That's true today in 2026, as it was in 1961.

1:09:12Ryan Grim:Jose Luis, thank you so much for your insights. We really appreciate it. It's always valuable. Thank you so much. All right, before we wrap, I had a quick update on what we were talking about earlier, the members of the delegation. I guess J.D. Vance was in, then he was out. Now it looks like he's in. Yeah, BBC and others reporting that Vance is on his way to Islamabad. Do you read anything into the inclusion or exclusion of J.D. Vance? I do think that his involvement gets us closer to a deal because I don't think the Iranians take Whitcoff or Kushner seriously seriously and assume them to be just agents of Netanyahu and who are there to like make sure a deal doesn't happen.

1:09:54Whereas they do think that Vance has his own presidential ambitions, that he was, you know, against the war.

1:10:02Ryan Grim:He also doesn't have the corrupt business ties that they have too. He does not have billions of dollars tied up with the Gulf or Pakistan crypto firms or Or, yeah, Netanyahu didn't sleep in his childhood bed, like with Kushner. Yeah. I mean, you do have the Peter Thiel connect, but it's a little less, you know, I directly have investments in this region that I'm looking after with my decision making as well. And not to mention Kushner and Witkopf, I think, were unable to just, like, understand the deal terms before the war as well. So I'm sure they take a look at that as well. So in any case, we're going to be following it closely, as you guys know.

1:10:39Ryan Grim:Saga will be back in tomorrow, so we will track all of the latest developments. Thank you to Ryan and Emily for combining forces to help us put together a great show here. And thank you guys, all of you, for watching. I will see you back here tomorrow.

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