6/12/26: Iran Worries Trump Mentally Ill, Hunter Biden Defends Platner, Antonio Reynoso, CAIR Attorney

25:47That's my reading. What about the money? What do we know about that at this point in terms of what's, like what is the Iranian state media claiming? What are you hearing? I mean, the Iranian state media. It could be a possibly phased, like a couple billion up front and then over days and then, but it's a loan that's forgivable or blah, blah, blah. I mean, Iranian state media isn't getting into the details of that structure that you're referring to. You know, what they're saying is the initial on the table offering is $24 billion in frozen assets. They don't indicate where it's going to come from.

26:25Most analysts, I think, believe that it will eventually go through Qatar in one way or another. although Emirati officials, strangely enough, have been increasing their communication with Iran and the Emiratis actively participated in the bombing. So there's a wild card there. But the Qataris were the ones historically involved with this issue. And there were supposed to be unfrozen funds in 2024 having to do with an exchange of hostages deal that the U.S. did. And then President Biden blocked the unfreezing of that money that was supposed to be repatriated to Iran. So it's possible that they may try to say this was money that had to do with a different deal or something.

27:02But half of that roughly, or$12 billion, Iranian media is saying would be returned to Iran at the front end of this. And then there would be a phasing, which is what you're talking about, a phasing of some of the rest of that. And, you know, remember, Iran is demanding a$300 billion reconstruction fund, you know, to address the damage that's been done. The other thing that Iranians had told me going back many weeks was that they were also willing to suspend any plans that they had for imposing any sort of fees on ships transiting the Strait of Hormuz. You know, there's been a lot of controversy about this issue of are they going to impose tolls?

27:38The Iranians have talked about kind of an alternative arrangement or framing of it where it would be like escort fees or security fees or environmental fees. But they were saying, you know, we'd be willing to pause all of those plans of the new authority that we established as part of this agreement. And then, you know, there's the issue of the Iranian request for a$300 billion reconstruction fund. And, you know, the U.S. has said it doesn't want to have anything to do with something like that is not going to do it. There's some discussions, I understand, with Gulf countries about it. But, you know, at the end of the day, the whole name of the game for the Iranians really is comprehensive sanctions relief.

28:14And I haven't seen any reporting to indicate that a single sanction, with the exception of some involving kind of oil sales and limited in scope stuff at the beginning of this, is going to be included. And, you know, Iran's economy took a massive hit, not just from these wars, but because of the sanctions and years of this. That's what those protests were about in January. You know, massive protests from the Bazaari culture. In American terms, this is like working class people, merchants, small business owners. They were the ones engaged in these large scale protests in Iran because of the economic conditions.

28:46So, you know, the Iranian state needs to address its economic situation as a matter of survival. And no comprehensive sanctions relief is being offered at the front end of this. So that's a victory in a sense for Trump. But the Iranians are saying no deal on nuclear stuff unless there's comprehensive sanctions relief, which is why the Iranians wanted to separate it into two tracks, because you're talking about existential issues. I was going to say the people who are in Trump's ear, I was toggling through some of the responses in the last 24 hours from Mark Levin, Mark Dubowitz, Mark Thiessen.

29:20I guess these are like the three Marks. I never thought about that before. Marksketeers. But they were, we know that they will not tolerate politically, they will no longer tolerate sanctions relief, period. Like that is just, you can't unfreeze the assets. You can't lift sanctions. And so the people who were so eager to cheerlead Trump and were really putting the wind at his back, he was citing them over and over again and then slamming his critics who weren't sounding the same notes as Mark Levin, for example, they're the ones that will absolutely not tolerate this. And so it's an impossible position that Trump has put himself in between what would end the war and actually accomplish a deal.

30:06Jeremy, it sounds like I think this is obvious, but it sounds like there absolutely is no wiggle room between what Mark Levin, Mark Thiessen, Mark Dubowitz will tolerate and what would accomplish an actual deal with the Iranians and other Gulf countries in the region. I mean, unfortunately, it's a good point that people like that have this kind of influence and Trump regularly promotes their their views and their and their posts. So it's you know, it's it's not a non factor. It's a real you know, it's a real thing. I think that though that this dynamic you're describing is part of why going way back to before February 28th and the start of this active war, the Iranians were talking about finding ways to appeal to Trump, the businessman and Trump, the president who is using the powers of the Oval Office in a very clear way to enrich his friends and set up his family.

30:55And they understand, you know, Jared Kushner. They understand the Whitcoff family. And so I think part of what the Iranians were looking at was what kind of oil and gas or other concessions can we put on the table to make this appealing to that part of Trump? So, you know, I could see a scenario where no deal whatsoever happens, that there's some short-term thing, as I was talking about at the beginning, and then it's returned to kind of weeks, if not months, of this standoff that we've been watching. But if there is some kind of a deal that involves sanctions relief, I could see Trump going forward with it if he felt that he was cashing in on it or that his family members or that his crony network was cashing in on it.

31:37I could see that. But you're going to have to lift sanctions. And as you mentioned, you have this more neocon wing of the Trump orbit who have been obsessed for their entire professional lives with Iran as like the purveyor of terrorism all over the world. And they have a lot of influence over Trump. So Trump has to figure out how to spin it for them. He has to figure out a way to declare victory. He also has to figure out a way to actually definitively end this. What I'll say parenthetically at the end too, it's interesting. I was talking to Hassan Ahmadiyya today, who's a really well-known Iran analyst and scholar and is very, very well known in the Islamic world.

32:18And I was asking him about the Lebanon situation because, yes, Iran showed that it was willing to go to the map and bomb Israel unilaterally outside of the context of the U.S.-Israeli war on Iran because of the attack on Beirut. But it could come to a moment where Iran has to use the leverage that it has to try to get as many concessions that are at its core interest, which have to do with its economic situation, its viability going forward as a regional power, etc. And would it be the case then that Netanyahu is able to kind of resume the war in Lebanon and that Iran wouldn't really be able to resume this because they're in the middle of very serious negotiations where they're using their leverage to get things that they very much want and prioritize?

32:59And what Hassan Ahmadiyya said was, the next phase of this is that the Israelis and the Americans are trying to decouple Hezbollah and Lebanon from Iran. And that's why there's this whole track going on with President Joseph Aoun, the president of Lebanon, and the Israelis and the Americans, and they want to essentially create an American-Lebanon government-Israeli front against Hezbollah. That's what they're trying to do. Iran, of course, is a longtime ally of Hezbollah and views itself as in this war with Hezbollah together. So what Ahmadiyya was saying is that the Americans are trying to decouple Iran from Lebanon and Hezbollah.

33:36what Hezbollah and Iran are going to do is try to decouple America from Israel. And that he was basically saying there is going to be another war and that that war is going to be Iran and Hezbollah against Israel. And the question is, can they drive that wedge between Israel and the United States? And I raised with him the example of the ceasefire deal that Trump signed with Ansar Allah in Yemen, often referred to as the Houthis. there is still a ceasefire on the books between the United States of America that was signed by Donald Trump and Ansar Allah in Yemen that is just about the United States and Ansar Allah, and Israel is not a party to it.

34:18So there is a precedent for that. But this isn't something that's going to happen in two weeks or two months. But going forward, we haven't heard the last of a war between Iran and Israel, because at the end of the day, Israel didn't really get everything that it wanted. And then the next phase for Israel is going to be ratchet up the covert operations that they're doing inside of Iran, even if the bombs stop falling. So we may see something happen, you know, in the coming days. We may not. What we might see happen would be massive bombing again, or tit for tat stuff again. Or we could see some deal that falls apart after some week, some initial thing, the Strait of Hormuz is open, a bunch of people make money on market stuff, and then it crumbles apart.

34:59You know, these are huge issues. The JCPOA, the 2015 deal, took years to negotiate, involving hundreds of experts from different sectors. And thus far, we've had Golf Buddy and Son-in-Law, and then, you know, more recently, you know, J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio. But, you know, they haven't brought the A-team in terms of, you know, area expertise to the table. And in order to make a real deal with Iran, they're going to have to do that. and last thing for me but it does seem like there's a risk to pick up what you were saying for Iran that they may have just gone through this year of war um siege control of the Strait of Hormuz you know fended off the US left a lot of the US bases in ashes and yet find themselves on the other side of it back where they were which is hoping to negotiate you know a nuclear agreement for sanctions relief like that's where they were a year ago, two years ago, three years ago.

35:55Like, it feels like Groundhog Day in that sense. Yes, there's definitely truth to that, but I would say there's two other factors that you should include in that analysis. One is Iran's ability to have not just survived this intact, but to have really fought two nuclear powers off, sent a message to the world. The world sees Iran very, very differently right now. Iran's neighbors see it very differently right now. The stakes of attacking Iran again, particularly for Gulf countries that have any connection to the United States or Israel, they do not want this to keep going. This has been catastrophic for their economic and political situation.

36:34So that's one dimension. What's really true about what you're saying, though, and I think in some ways this is the biggest challenge facing the Iranian government going forward, the war has unified many sectors of Iranian society. I'm not saying there aren't militant opponents of Iran, both outside and inside, but even prominent critics of the Iranian government, the Islamic Republic government, have come out quite ferociously against this war. And you have massive demonstrations in Iran, including people saying to Iranian state media that they were opponents of the government, that they were protesting against the government, that they're openly saying this even on Iranian state media, you know, and we're against what the, you know, what the U.S.

37:15and Israel are doing. when the bombs stop falling and it becomes this drawn-out negotiation process and you're not getting comprehensive sanctions relief and the economy is still screaming, as Scott Besson put it, the intention of it is to try to strangle the people into a kind of uprising, then a new day sets in. Sounds like Kissinger. Right. And I think that that's, you know, Mohammed Bagar-Galabaf, the lead negotiator for Iran and the Speaker of the Iranian Parliament, talks about how, you know, Iran knows best this language, you know, the language of fighting against, you know, the U.S. and Israel in this capacity.

37:52And he meant it in a different way, but it was revelatory in a sense, because if they no longer have that active war to rally against, then you have to face, well, like, what do people now think in this country or feel in this country now that the dust has settled? And there's huge capital by the United States and Israel being poured in to trying to foment internal unrest. So there is a way in which, and I've said this before, I think Israel is not so nervous about the bombs stop falling because they'll move into another phase of this. What Iranians would tell you is, yes, that's a concern. We understand that.

38:26But this war, above all, showed that our institutions are resilient and that the state is resilient and that these types of actions, even at their height, were unable to bring it down or destroy it, even though they killed our Supreme Leader, the heads of the IRGC and political echelon. So we'll see. We'll talk in a couple of years and see what happens with this. But it remains a dangerous situation, I would say, a very dangerous situation. All right. Well, Jeremy Scahill, DropSite News. See you back here in a couple of years. We'll see. A couple of minutes. I meant just on that issue. I mean, this is the second time I've been on your casual Fridays.

39:02And I feel honored to be hanging out in your living rooms. All right. Well, thanks so much. Have a good weekend.

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41:34See nutrition info on Hero.co for sodium and sugar content. Hunter Biden made an appearance on Gavin Newsom's podcast. So we obviously had to bring you some of these clips. Let me start with the first one. Of course, they touched on Graham Plattner because why wouldn't they? The boys are just riffing here. But let's go with this one. Raised a lot of eyebrows. This is from TMZ. I'm joined today by presidential candidate Hunter Biden. 2028. Come on, Hunter. No, no, no, no. You got more buzz out there than it. You got the president of the United States. He's so jealous. Your candidacy for president.

42:20I'll give you a break for just one day at least. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'll run, but only as your VP, because the truth of the matter is the vice president's residence is a lot cooler. It's a lot easier job too. I think your point was accurate. It sounded a little bit like Gavin Newsom. He immediately jumped to, you're running for president because you're getting so much attention. He looked salty. To him, it's zero sum. He's so angry. But let's give Gavin what he needs. which is a little bit of attention. Yeah, let's do it. So they did touch on Graham Plattner. What do you make of him in the context of all this that you're describing?

43:08He was a combat veteran, and when he came back, you know, he had some real issues with PTSD.

43:22And that trauma, and whatever way that he was working it out, he, I think, has been really, really open about. is that he wasn't a good person. And here's what I know, is that it takes a lot of stamina, at least. I'm not going to say, I think courage too. I'll give myself that, to get back up and build a better life. and I don't uh I I'm I'm 99.9 certain is that Graham Plattner is no Nazi um you know and and I don't think that he's a racist in any way I hear the way that he talks I think that um uh his relationship with his wife is his relationship with his wife um uh the entirety of that controversy is, you know, it's all about, you know, leaked consensual, you know, stuff.

44:26I mean, stupid. Maybe you would have a problem. Not you. I mean, anyone would have a problem. Not you, Gavin. I always say to people, like, show me your phone. Give me access to your iCloud. let me let's let's let's go through it and pull everything that we can that is inappropriate that is um off color that is um you know uh that selfie that you took when you're drunk off your ass and you know you sent it to your blah blah blah like show me your phone and if that's the standard by which we are going to judge people particularly people in elected office then i don't think we're going to have many people in elected office.

45:13And so as it relates to Graham Plattner, I focus on this, is that I have not heard anything in any way that would say to me that he is an abusive, misogynistic, or anti-Semitic, or racist person. And I have heard this from Grant Plattner, though, that he thinks we should all have free health care. I have heard this from Grant Plattner also, that he thinks that we have to radically change our politics. I have heard this from Grant Plattner, that working people are getting fucking screwed. I have heard this from Grant Plattner, that they have us at each other's throats and we should be at their throats.

46:04I have heard this from Graham Plattner, that he thinks the oligarchs and the tech overlords and billionaires are really, really, really making the playing field unfair for working class people. That's what I've heard from Graham Plattner. and so um and so i hope i'm right about that because you know i look at somebody and i know you probably have a personal relationship with him but you know i watched as uh as zoham and donny kind of uh came up and i thought holy shit like i like what i'm hearing you know and and and And then when he got elected, I thought, I hope he can deliver. So you have Gavin in the background, like, chuckling like a psychopath the entire time.

47:00It's so weird. He liked what he was hearing, though. Yeah, who knows what's going through that weirdo's mind. But yeah, I mean, Hunter's making a lot of sense, right? I mean, nobody knows better than him, you know, what it's like to have your entire iCloud leaked. He elaborated on it on Twitter this morning. To everyone so eager to cancel someone for a tattoo they got at age 22, a drunk text, a selfie they took in the middle of a mental health crisis. Show us your laptop. Show us your iCloud. Open your entire digital life to your worst enemy. No context, no filter, no explanation. You won't. and a good he's really got the Twitter form down now like the long form no he's crushing yeah and he talks about you know perseverance and not being judged by the you know the worst he's you know he writes my mom and baby sister were killed in a car accident when I was just a kid cancer took my brother Bo my best friend in my rock I battled alcoholism addiction I chose the coward's way out more times than I can count and then he's he talks about his own story of redemption.

48:12His is as dramatic, you know, of highs and lows, well, lows, as you can kind of get. But everybody has some, something. There, you know, he's, you know, Plattner's getting hit again. Another, New York Post has another ex-girlfriend who's saying that he did actually know what the tattoo was. I tend to think that the tattoo is baked in that voters in Maine are like, I think the average, tell me what you think, I think the average, and this is probably where I am too, that the average voter in Maine is like, I don't think he knew what it was when he got it. I don't think he's a Nazi. Like there's no evidence he's actually a Nazi.

49:00So he didn't know what it was when he got it. I don't think he's a Nazi. But I do think that at some point, probably after this wedding in 2015 where he's taking his shirt off. But I do think at some point he probably realized what it was. And then he didn't get it taken, he didn't get it covered up until the election campaign. And he's fudging when he learned what it was. I think that is what people assume. And I think people have just kind of incorporated it into who they think he is. Because I think like, well, he's lying and that goes to his character. But I think a lot of people are like, yeah, well, of course he's going to lie about that.

49:42Well, it's like, was Brett Covenal lying about remembering what happened with Christine Blasey Ford? Probably. But of course he had to. Like, you're just kind of in. Well, right. That's a different. Yeah, we can do a full show on that. But I was just going to say, I think you're correct. First of all, I think Republicans leaning too hard into the tattoo when Plattner is making the election about like kitchen table, nuts and bolts, health care, college affordability is a mistake. They think this is we talked about this last week, actually, that like he is framing the election as something that's explicitly about affordability and not the culture war.

50:22He's trying to not talk about the culture war. Such a great job laying out. Oh, and Hunter is meeting the moment so poetically. I don't know who is helping him. If anybody is helping him, I could see it just being him because he's extremely, I think he has emotional intelligence. He's a very smart person and you can see all of that. I wrote a whole piece last week about how he's completely, I've watched every single long form interview he has done. He is completely whitewashing the truth about his influence peddling, but that's neither here nor there. It's clearly tapping into something very real, also very Gen Z.

50:58I think it's nailing the lack of institutional trust in a way that's, I think, totally meeting the moment. But that's where Republicans have to recognize that people aren't going to vote on the Nazi tattoo. Like most people in Maine are not going to vote on the Nazi tattoo. He lied about when he learned what it was. Yeah, I do think just looking like you're not telling the truth as a populist candidate is always a big problem. But I don't think it's going to end the campaign because I think we've entered a cynical era in American politics somewhere after the recession that Trump crystallized for everyone, which is that nobody is under the illusion that if somebody talks like John Edwards, they're also going to be the person John Edwards is pretending to be.

51:40because people got fooled by John Edwards or Bill Clinton or whatever. That's where Trump comes in and is just nobody believes him when he's talking about Stormy Daniels or whomever else. Like we're in a post-character era in our politics. And so to keep leaning into that and insisting on it instead of talking about policy is a mistake. Yeah, I think that's right. Right, yeah. And people can just keep looking at that chart of Trump's net worth climbing to like$6 billion from much, much, much less than that. And then it's like, really, we're talking about a tattoo? So I do think they're in kind of a trap there.

52:26Now, clearly, he was a dog for a very long time. And he said he was. Now, I think he was a dog quite longer than he says he was. And in his victory speech, he talks about, and I think he's starting to allude to this. He talks about redemption being a journey. He says, every day I'm trying to be better than I was the day before. Because every time they find something that he did wrong after, say, 2021 or 2023, it's like, wait, you said you were redeemed. He's like, well, I'm not perfect. Redemption's a journey. But that's true, of course. Yeah. Now, they never found anything with Mamdani. You know, so there's a contrast.

53:10Like, you know, they dug up everything they could possibly find. I mean, like, character-wise. Right, right, character-wise. All they had was his wife's, like, Spotify. Or, you know, she brushed off. Teenage Spotify. Teenage Spotify. Or, like, some teenage posts that she made. This is Danielle Fishel. And Ryder Strong from Podmeets World. When you have five and seven-year-old boys, I can promise you they love superheroes. Oh, it never goes away. Indy is 11 years old and he's obsessed with comics, cartoons, video games, all of it. Adler and Keaton both have Spider-Man costumes and if anything says Marvel on it, they are in.

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54:25Lingo Kids. Everything kids love. I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything. It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America. Who doesn't love warm, carby comfort? Satisfying sandwiches, loaded bagels, rich mac and cheese. Crave-worthy and smart, Hero Bread's loaves, bagels, and noodles have just 0-5 gram snack carbs, 0 gram sugar, and up to 19 grams of protein and 32 grams of fiber per serving.

55:12Hero Bread bakes with heart-healthy olive oil and delivers a soft, fluffy, flavorful experience you love. Shop now on Hero.co. Use code IHEART for 10 % off. That's Hero.co. Per serving, not a low-calorie food. Some products contain Allulose. See nutrition info on Hero.co for sodium and sugar content. All right. Joining us now is Antonio Reynoso. He's the Brooklyn Borough President, also a candidate for New York's 7th District, which is, you know, most of much of Brooklyn vying to replace outgoing kind of legendary Congresswoman Nidia Velazquez and up against union organizer Claire Valdez, who has the endorsement of Zoran Mamdani, making kind of a, you know, bringing a lot of national attention to this.

55:55race. Antonio, thank you so much for being here. Happy to be here. I'm happy to be here. So I wanted to start with just so people can get a sense of what you're running on. The latest ad that your campaign put out. Let me just get this up here. They underestimated me, attacked me, stiff armed me. And Antonio Reynoso was by our side for all these fights because Trump and his crew don't stop. Neither does Antonio. Led the Progressive Caucus. Kicked ice off Rikers. Not taking a cent from wealthy special interests. He's the best choice to deliver change. I'm fight back. Because he's done it over and over.

56:34That's why teachers, nurses, the Working Families Party. We're all on his side. Because he is on ours. So pretty often you have the Working Families Party, Justice Democrats, even New York City DSA. not always, but pretty often in a coalition together behind the same candidate going up against somebody who's been in office and has the hardcore support of, say, developers, etc. And it's a clear contrast. This one, as the ad shows, is a little bit split. You've got New York City DSA, Justice Democrats, Mamdani on Valdez's side. You've got Velazquez and WFP over on your side. So why do you think it is that they made a mistake?

57:24Like, what's your case for why you're the more kind of working class progressive candidate here? Yeah, and look, I first want to say that I don't think there's necessarily a split. It's the DSA versus the Working Families Party, Letitia James, Nidia Velazquez, Jumani Williams, every, the majority of unions, tenant association, presidents of every, almost every single NYCHA, the local organizations like Make the Road New York, NYCC, and Churches United for Fair Housing. So I just want to be clear that the progressive movement is a large, it has a lot of us in it, and that the majority of the progressive movement is with me.

58:02And there's one faction of the progressive movement, which is the DSA that is not. Momdani is part of the DSA. The Justice Democrats, for all intents and purposes, is a 501c4 or IE arm of the DSA and the DSA. So I just want to put that first into perspective. The reason I think that they made a mistake, I would say this, that I've been doing the progressive politics, the hard work for decades now. You know, I founded an organization called New King's Democrats to fight against the corrupt party politic machine here in Brooklyn. And we beat the party boss when I ran for office when I was just 29 years old.

58:38As a freshman council member, I was the co-chair of the progressive caucus that achieved many things. And I was able to pass tenant legislation to fight against terrible landlords. I was able to pass police reform. Every single time the progressive movement asked me to show up, I didn't just show up, I led from the front. And I think what you're seeing here are a conversation about the rise of Mamdani and, you know, what I think is Mamdani won with a broad coalition and moving away from coalition building and thinking that one faction of the progressive movement was what got him elected versus it being just like all of us coming together to make sure that we promote and push progressive politics in New York City.

59:24This is really interesting. I mean, Ryan writes a lot about this in his books, especially The Squad. But this is actually you're in the middle of a really interesting, I think, dynamic between DSA and broader progressive movement in New York City in the era of Mamdani or in New York era in the era of Mamdani. So what are some of the lessons that you think? I mean, you were just talking about needing a broad coalition, but what are some of the lessons you think maybe the DSA world is not learning in this moment right now? Yeah, I would say this. I think that the DSA as an organization, I guess what we learned at a very young age, I guess, in the progressive movement, the founding of the Working Families Party and how we were going to be successful was that we needed to go into like small factions, find all the people that are struggling, that need help, come together and make sure that we're solving for their issues.

1:00:18We learned that very young. The number one question that the WFP used to ask every single elected official before, like 20 years ago, was, how good are you at building coalitions? That was a primary foundational principle or tenet to being a progressive. You need to build a coalition because we can't do it by ourselves. And I think that what the DSA could look to is just that coalition building is important. Nidia Velasquez was the first congressperson to endorse Zoran Mondani. I was a part of the first group of elected officials that are non-DSA to endorse Zoran Mondani. I did a video for him for Brooklyn.

1:00:54I did a citywide Latino Spanish-speaking piece for him. Just like the WFP was really important to his growth. all these organizations, every single person you saw in that video, for me, was with Zora Mumdani during the primary, right? And I just think that the perspective here is that the coalition is all of us. And all I'm saying is this. I think that we allow for the DSA to eat at our table, but they don't necessarily allow us to eat at their table, right? Like, if you're not a member, you can't receive support from the DSA in any way, shape, or form. In ours, it's like, no, if you're a DSA member and you're a good elected official and you've done great work or you're a great organizer, we would be more than happy to welcome you in the way we did with Julia Salazar, that is a state senator, Emily Gallagher, Kristen Gonzalez.

1:01:42We supported Tiffany Caban and Alexa Aviles. So for us, it's always like big 10, bring everybody in. If you're good, we got your back. On their side though, if it's not a DSA member, they just don't put out support. So I just think it's like, hey, the coalition is big. It's all of us and they are a part of that. And I think it's something that could bode well for them long-term and they're continuing to build this movement on the left, that they build partnerships. I feel like Israel-Palestine has so much to do with what unfolded here. And I'm curious for your take on this. My sense is that the thing that really has given Claire Valdez an opening and perhaps drew DSA and Mamdani in is, and the contrast that she tries to draw publicly consistently is, she said, I was out there early calling it a genocide and calling for a ceasefire.

1:02:33And my opponent waited far too long, waited until I was running. So two questions on that. Do you think that's the major opening that she has here? And in hindsight, So, why didn't you go in earlier? And if you had gone in earlier and say this genocide needs to stop today, like let's say you did that very early on, what would have happened to you? Like why not do that? Because I do think if you had done that, we wouldn't even be talking about a race here. or I disagree, right? Interesting. I disagree wholeheartedly. Yeah. The two things here, they need to find distinction of which there's very little on a policy.

1:03:10Like our policy platforms are practically aligned. You could go to Julie Juan and Tony Reno, so I care about that's his website, switch the names and you're going to have a hard time trying to tell us. Right? Like so, but they need to find distinction and we're not talking about disagreeing on something all three of us, all three of us agree that what happened in Gaza is a genocide, that we need to re-establish relationships, re-negotiate relationships with allies that are not being held to account, and we shouldn't be sending weapons of war to Israel or to any nation that is committing war crimes or breaking international law.

1:03:45We all agree with that. The thing here, the distinction that they're trying to say is the timing of when it happened. But I could have done that October 8th, and it wouldn't have made a difference because I am not a DSA member. They only support DSA members. And that is deeply important that you know that this is not going to change the game. Then they would have... That's true. I just mean the opening. They could endorse, but they might not have had the energy behind it. I don't think any of that stuff matters. I think that what they do is that they find the candidate and they look for every little straw that they can find to build distinction.

1:04:25We said that we're not taking money from big real estate. So we don't talk to revenue members that are building large developments that are making themselves super rich. But I'll take money from a real estate agent, a broker, and they're saying, oh, Antonio takes real estate money. They look for any upper. They're going to comb through everything they possibly can to find distinction because their only value here is that their record doesn't exist. Here's your opponent just hitting you with that right here. Exactly. Right. So it wouldn't have been, it would have not been genocide. it would have been real estate.

1:04:58If it would have not been real estate, they would have said, oh, Antonio talks too much about being a native New Yorker, or Antonio does. They would have tried to find something because they need to build this distinction. I have a record. I've been able to help Black maternal health from Brooklyn and making it the safest place for Black women to have babies as a borough president. I always did the police reform that we talked about. We kicked ice out of Rikers. We did outdoor dining in the city of New York exists because I passed legislation to do that work. Every single part of the progressive movement I've been a part of, every union, the majority of unions are with me, right?

1:05:32But they have to find distinction because once you can no longer, once you can no longer build up your candidate, the only action that you can then take is to destroy the person that you're going against, right? So I feel like my record hasn't been challenged one time in this entire race. None of them can say I wasn't a progressive champion. And I think that what they do is throw these negative things out there just because they're grasping at straws to try to tear me down. I think it's connected to the kind of collapse and faith that people have in politicians and also institutions. We did a survey in Michigan for the Senate primary there.

1:06:08And one of the questions we asked, and I'm sure you've seen questions that you frame them like this. You say, here's a statement. Do you agree or disagree with the statement? And the statement was, if a candidate won't stand up to AIPAC, I don't trust them to fight for me on other issues. and even moderates overwhelmingly were like, I agree with that statement. And I feel like there's so much distrust in the system broadly that people are now identifying this question as a proxy for, as a stand-in for whether or not they're going to fight on other issues. So they might not know your whole record of fighting for...

1:06:45But nobody in this camp... But nobody takes APAC money in this district, Ryan. Ryan, this district is... We're all progressives. You see, it's already happening here. The narrative here. Right. Right. No one in this district takes AIPAC money. Everyone has been clear on their position in Gaza. And that is a moral center that is absolutely necessary in this district. It's just not something that we're going to be negotiating here at all. I think that distinction. Go ahead, Ryan. Well, I was going to say, to Ryan's point, I think it means the purity politics. Because you all share that baseline.

1:07:20It means to distinguish each other from, to distinguish yourselves from one another. The purity politics gets kind of increasingly ridiculous. Exactly. Because now we're talking, you know, the three of us, the Julie Wan and myself and Claire all agreed to not take super PAC money in the beginning of the campaign. And Claire Valdez was the first one to put up a red box and show super PACs exactly how she would want them to spend money. And has received, I think she has seven or eight super PACs now that are supporting her. and it's just like this then it comes down to this idea that the purity only falls to me because i'm the candidate that didn't attack so only i have to fall in line with purity politics and everything needs to be perfect but on their side they make excuses every single time she did a video in zora mandani in a you know i'm sorry she did a video in in what is that place called where he lives in gracie mansion a political video in gracie mansion it's just like little things that are happening if i would have done any of those things i would have been attacked.

1:08:17But you know why? And I'm going to say it again, because I passed safety tenant, tenant safety legislation to protect tenants. I did the police reform. I did the outdoor dining. I kicked ice out of Rikers. I have a record and they can't attack me on my record because my record is one that is staunchly progressive and has done real work. So they're going to go after nonsensical things and hold me to account to a level that they won't hold their own candidate. AOC hasn't weighed in on this race. I know she's been under a lot of pressure. in both directions. She's close with Nydia Velasquez, who's retiring and is powerfully behind you and has urged her either to not get in or to get behind you.

1:09:04Of course, she's very close with Mamdani as well. We'd love to see her. Have you spoken with her? And what's your sense of whether or not she's going to weigh in on this race? I believe that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez sees that anybody that wins this district would be good for the progressive movement in New York City and this is just one where folks like her might not be seeing too much daylight and might not want to put resources into a district that's very safe it's not a red to blue or purple seat opportunity here it's like okay this is the most progressive district in this country, we're going to get a, you know, a very progressive person in there.

1:09:46But also I think that she, she respects Nidia Velasquez and her history. She knows it and she knows that she was the only Puerto Rican woman elected to office, the first Puerto Rican woman elected to office, that she was fighting against the democratic machine for 20 years before somebody got elected to assist her and for her not to be alone. What she's done for Puerto Rico and being its representative, you know, not technically or legally, but just being one of the few Congress people that stand up for Puerto Rico. I think she understands all that and is probably going to stay out of this race.

1:10:19It makes sense. Last question for me is what are the basic things that you hear from voters when you're campaigning? Like, what are they telling you they're concerned about? It's all affordability right now. Well, mostly affordability and ICE are the two major issues. And the thing here is that I've done a lot of work on affordability with housing, housing development. I'm a pro-supply candidate. So I've been somebody that thinks that we need to build a lot more housing to be able to get us out of this hole. So it's been resonating. And then ICE, you know, I went to, on the ICE front, of course, we already kicked ICE out of Rikers when I was a council member, you know, 12 years ago, before it was a centrist talking points for Democrats.

1:10:55We were already doing that work. But on top of that, there was an issue here in Wyckoff Hospital. We had ICE coordinate with the NYPD when there was a detainee that was injured and the NYPD was supporting them. I was out there the next day. We had a rally with all of our neighbors and made sure that NYPD knew that we weren't going to accept in this sanctuary city any coordination of NYPD and ICE. And those are two things that people really are grateful that I was able to stand up for them, able to show up when the community needed it. They didn't wait, you know, four or five days the way Clara Valdez waited before she made a statement because she was waiting for the mayor to make a statement before she was going to say anything about NYPD.

1:11:34It's an example of the things that the double standard that exists in this race where we fight, we do what we need to do, but our record is going to get let through a fine-tooth comb while the other side is just going to ignore any lack of commitments or honesty or just like waiting game that I don't think we can afford in this time when it comes to ICE. So I'm going to abolish ICE and I'm going to help with the affordability crisis by unlocking opportunities to build housing. And those are the two things at the doors that people have been looking for that I think are deeply major. And I'm sure as people can tell, last one for me, just watching this interview, it's on the ground, it's become a contentious fight among allies.

1:12:19What has the result, what are you seeing on the ground, particularly as you have DSA and Justice Democrats going hard and Mamdani going hard? And what is the kind of class and cultural divide and how is that playing out in the neighborhoods among people who are newer, more educated versus people who've been there a very long time? Yeah, Ryan, look, I want to be careful here because I want to represent the entire district. And I believe that I have the broadest coalition. I have Muslims from City Line, every tenant association president supporting me. I have the Hasidic Jewish community in South Wintersburg supporting me.

1:13:03Like I have a really diverse coalition, an absolute diverse coalition. And I think that's how you win elections. But there is a distinction between the two campaigns and who we're targeting and having conversations with. I would say this, that my, Clara Valdez's website in which she tells the super PAC to spend money, she has zip codes that are exclusively in the richest parts of the district. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't be reaching out to those residents. We should. But to send your super PAC almost exclusively to the places that are more affluent and white is a reflection of where she thinks are her bases.

1:13:44Mine is going to be one where we're reaching out to those folks as well. But I am in East New York. I am in Cypress Hills. I'm in Woodhaven. I'm in Maspeth and Ridgewood. Like I'm everywhere. In Glendale. I'm just making sure that I show up everywhere. because we're going to win this by building the broadest coalition. So I do think there's a divide there. But at the end of the day, when we get elected, we're going to want to represent everyone. But there's obviously, I think, a distinction here between whose voters are who and just turning out our bases. I thought this was interesting, too. And I know you guys talked about this in the debate.

1:14:21For people who don't know, this is what's called a red box. which is a way that candidates signal to you're not allowed to legally coordinate with a super PAC and so the way that they coordinate without coordinating is they make it public so everybody can see it it's not a private message it's a public message and they put it inside this red box they'll say voters need to both read and see on the go read and see on the go would mean like Tony you know this better but I feel like that's digital ads but like there's all this code there's all this code coded language that goes in because you don't want to write please buy digital ads but they basically say it but then so down this is what you were talking about down here they even get into like when this needs to happen the key targets and here's what you were talking about 2025 mayoral primary electorate needs to receive our message and turn out this election persuasion women, white and Latino voters, high propensity Dem voters, voters under 50 still need to learn more about Claire.

1:15:31So what they're saying here is the name ID isn't high enough there. Mobilization. So this is what she considers her base. So it's Bushwick, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Ridgewood, Sunnyside, Long Island City, and priority neighborhoods of Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Astoria, East Williamsburg, the more gentrified areas. And then here, priority zip codes. Wow. Yes. Link in a spreadsheet. So these are the key zip codes. Yeah. So what you're telling me about these zip codes is, I don't, you know, these are the more gentrified areas of New York City. Is that how you would describe them? You could put a C tab on that and put average AMI in that and you'll see exactly what it looks like.

1:16:20So my thing is, it's not that we all have to go after our bases. And I have no problem for her going after her base. But we are the working class candidate. We are the working class campaign. And we're going to keep pushing our affordability agenda and making sure people know that I'm the only one that has a legislative record. Clara Valdez has not passed one piece of legislation in the time that she's been in the state assembly. So when we talk about the hard fights that we need to take when we get to Congress, I'm the only one that has shown that I can do the difficult things. And I think we have too many performative elected officials in Congress right now that like to make a lot of noise but don't bring resources to their community.

1:16:58That's just not somebody that I am or what I do. So I'm looking forward to be able to represent this district and show them that effective leadership is possible and that we can make this country work. We can make government work for the people of this country. So yeah, you saw the red box there. And that was done after we specifically said that we weren't going to take Super PAC money. So now Super PAC are in. She's gotten almost a half a million dollars worth of Super PAC funding from people that have given to Marjorie Taylor Greene, the same people that gave to Greg Abbott. And so those are the people that are giving her money.

1:17:32And now at this point, we have got to be very careful because we committed to not allowing for millionaires and billionaires to control this race or to choose this race or to be the outcome or the decider of who wins this race. But now there's super PAC money. And now there are a campaign that was about policy, policy and issues and distinctions about campaigns have turned into who can spend the most money at the end of this, you know, in the last week. And it's unfortunate that we got there, but the Clara Valdez campaign began this nonsensical, you know, you know, like going back on her word on super PACs.

1:18:10And I think that this campaign is going to descend into a nasty place that I don't think we are, any of us want it to be. Did she specifically promise not to take super PAC money? I'd be surprised because part of her kind of path to victory was the kind of the pro-Palestine or anti-genocide super PACs out there and just as Democrats. Yeah, that was it. Yeah. Yeah, she said that we had our first, one of our first, if not our first public debate was the New York League of Conservation Voters. You could look at it. And we all committed on that stage that we would not take super PAC funding. The thing here is that it's one thing for us to say we're not going to take super PAC funding.

1:18:52And then super PACs come out because that's what they do. We can't control that. But to put up a red box clearly states that you are interested in directing any potential Super PAC money to specific places and so forth. If we all committed to not take Super PAC money, the least we could have done is not have our red boxes up. But once she put hers up, I fall obligated to put mine up. Like I said, I don't want to have this campaign be chosen by Super PACs. but once Claire showed that she was going to allow for that to happen, even after she specifically said she would not take it, it changed the game of this campaign.

1:19:28It muddied the waters, and it's an unfortunate thing. But she did say that, Ryan, word to word. If you look at the New York League of Constellation Borders video, you can see it. Yeah, I'm looking at some of the coverage from back then. Well, borough president Antonio Reynoso, candidate for New York's 7th district, the race is what, 11 days? 11 days, Ryan, 11 days. And we need these days to come, let me tell you. My kids, my kids, you know, I have two boys. One of them is in Little League. The other one is in his first kindergarten prom today. And I need to be, I want to be there with my kids right now.

1:20:11You all know that campaigning is, especially for Congress is a madhouse. So really looking forward to being back with my family. but excited. Excited about the future, what's going to happen on June 23rd. And I think we're going to show people that building coalitions and being together and building true solidarity is what people want. It's a kindergarten prom. Did I hear that right? It's a kindergarten prom. I wish I could send you a picture. I have him in a three-piece suit. He looks so cute. Yes, it is. I'm going to put it up on Instagram so if anybody wants to see it, they can see it. Yeah, my five-year-old son is in a prom.

1:20:47So he's a special needs kid. He has autism. So it's a class of only five students. So I don't know what they're going to be doing, but the five kids are doing a prom. It's going to be awesome. I can't wait to see the videos. That's fantastic. Yeah, it is. It's cool. All right, and good luck in Little League as well. Yes, yeah. So a lot of work to do, Ryan. My kid has to go to at least a D1 college baseball team, so I don't need to pay for this high expensive tuition for these colleges. So that's what I'm working on. but the coaches think I'm crazy. Yeah, they kick me out of the field all the time.

1:21:20They're like, hey, there's no scouts here yet. You can go sit down. But I'm one of those crazy parents with baseball. I love it. Excellent. All right, well, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Absolutely appreciate you. Take care, Ryan. Joining us now is Amy Ducouré, who is an attorney with Care Michigan to discuss the latest indictments. The federal government has handed down sweeping indictments against eight people who participated in campus protests or participated in the protest movement in Michigan against Israel's genocide in Gaza back in 2024. Amy, thanks so much for walking us through these charges and what they mean.

1:22:04Thank you for being here. Sure, no problem. I'm happy that you guys are covering such an important topic. Yeah, it's totally crazy. And we've been following this story, you know, for quite some time. And The timeline as I remember it, and you correct me where I'm wrong here, is that as the campus crackdown unfolded, there was pressure on Eli Savitt, who at the time was the Ann Arbor prosecutor, to really throw a whole bunch of felonies at these students who were protesting Michigan's complicity in Israel's genocide. He declines to do so effectively. Attorney General Dana Nessel then, under pressure from the Michigan Regents, the Board of Regents, and also pro-Israel forces both in the state and nationally, she then tries to go forward with serious charges.

1:23:05And it feels like a lot of them got tossed or dropped. Like it feels like those fizzled as well. And now, two years later, we have federal charges, felony, like major charges coming from Trump's Department of Justice. And in the meantime, you had one of the most vocal Board of Regents members lose his primary to an anti-genocide candidate. And you had Savitt himself, who had declined to go forward with these charges, become the nominee for attorney general in Michigan. and you've had Abdul El-Sayed kind of as Israel has become central to the Michigan Senate primary, vault into the lead as the front runner.

1:23:55And then separately, you have these efforts in the Michigan legislature to say, actually, maybe this whole idea of having people vote on who's in the Board of Regents is bad and we shouldn't even let people vote. The whole like, if voting mattered, they would make it illegal. So now they're actually, it does matter. And so they're trying to make it illegal. So it's a real kind of clash. And Tom Perkins and I have a piece that will be up later today over at DropSite. I think we'll see what headline we go with. But right now we're thinking of the issue of Israel's ending democracy in Michigan. But so in my timeline there, kind of what did I miss?

1:24:35What did I get wrong? Like what has unfolded the last couple of years as it relates to these protests? Sure. So I think your timeline is, quite frankly, right on. What I'd like to add to your timeline, though, is that it's actually interesting to see that right after the encampment happened, or maybe at the time the encampment was happening, the University of Michigan, through its Board of Regents, hired a private surveillance company. And that private surveillance company is now accused of stalking and harassing a UMICH student. That's a lawsuit that's pending right now. Now, what is what also is missing is the fact that, yeah, the attorney general brought 11 charges.

1:25:15Two of them were for misdemeanor trespassing, a charge that she has never charged outside the context of the casinos before under from what we understand. And at the time that these charges were brought, there was some real questions about why she was prosecuting these charges when really they should have went to Eli Savitt and he refused. When a judge indicated that he was going to require her office to turn over information about how these charges came to her and why she brought them, that's when she dropped all of the charges. So under pressure of having to declare how she got them. What also is missing is that over a year ago at this point, the attorney general's office raided the homes of these eight individuals.

1:25:56At that time, she invited the FBI into those raids. At that time, the FBI indicated that they had no part in the raid other than a supporting role. They were not investigating them. And those raids were intended to produce evidence about who may have vandalized personal property. Those charges regarding vandalism have never came to fruition. Not at all. But instead, more than a year later, we have federal charges for some kind of conspiracy to commit threats using a telecommunication device. And what the government is saying is that the federal government is saying that these individuals use Twitter to engage in a conspiring to commit a threat.

1:26:38Like they had a DM group or something on Twitter and that's their. No, that they were DMing each other and that whatever they posted on Twitter, in light of all of the other rhetoric that was being said about their free speech, those have to be considered to be threats. And that they were conspiring to use those Twitter posts to indicate that they were a threat to the regents and some other people. So, yeah, so what did they do and what are the charges? Like, let's get specific here because it's like, reading through it, it seems rather absurd. Seems like a real stretch. So what would be the steel man case for like, that these kids committed federal crimes?

1:27:28To be honest with you, I would challenge anybody who actually read the indictment to try to pick out what the crime is and try to pick out what... Yeah, so they're charged with conspiracy to make a threat using a temanus. telecommunication vice. That means they got together as a group and they conspired to use the internet or social media to threaten certain people. And those are like victims one through six, right? But when you read what the Twitter feed says, it seems like purely political speech. It says, we want divestment. We're going to organize. We're going to mobilize. We're going to escalate for divestment.

1:28:02None of that seems like a threat. When you're talking about First Amendment law, You're really talking about the threat has to be a really real threat. It has to be very specific. And I would charge anybody to go through that document and figure out what the really real threat was from Twitter, because that's what they're charged with. And to, yeah, so I remember as an aside, when I was a bureau chief of a news organization previously, one of our reporters got a pretty nasty threat that was effectively like, they told her, like, I'm going to kill you, basically. And we went to the FBI and we said, here's the, like, here's the communication that we got.

1:28:46Here's the person that said this. And I remember them saying, this is not specific enough. Like it was specific in that they were going to kill you, but it, it didn't have a, when they were going to do it, didn't have where they were going to do it, didn't have how they were going to do it. And so there was a, it was just a general, I'm going to kill you. And they said, you know, that's just speech. That's, that does not cross the bar into something actionable. if she wants to apply for a temporary restraining order or a permanent restraining order, you know, she can certainly, you know, go for that.

1:29:23But as far as something that we can enforce, that doesn't rise to the level of what we consider to be an illegal threat. And so I was thinking about that in the context of this indictment where what they're saying is we're going to elevate pressure on the regents like So that they, you know, we're going to protest so that we can have these demands met. Like, what is the closest thing that they might have said that could be construed as an actual threat? I don't think so. After reading the indictment, I don't think that any of their actual words would constitute a threat outside of all of the hyperbolic other, you know, allegations that the Department of Justice has made and the FBI have made.

1:30:13Like if you look at what was put on Twitter in the realm of what was just put on Twitter, I don't think any of that would actually amount to a threat falling within the scope of that law. Right. Which is why you see this indictment having references to things that are happening overseas, geopolitical conflicts. You know, it's why you see them talking about designated terrorist organizations overseas. What does that really have to do with anything going on with these students who are asking to divest from a genocide? Asking their university where they pay their tax dollars, where they pay their tuition money to divest from the instrumentality of genocide.

1:30:53It doesn't have anything to do with it. But by, you know, adding all this loaded language, all of these allegations about things that they've never been charged with, never been convicted of, they're trying to turn what looks like purely political speech into something that's criminal. And that's the real concern with this indictment. And that's what this administration has been trying to do since they took office, quite frankly. And just to read from some of it, and here's from local news, they quote the indictment. Their criminal activity included spray painting threats, breaking windows and throwing glass jars filled with noxious chemicals into family homes.

1:31:32They marked their victims with threatening symbols used by Hamas. I assume that's the red triangle they're referring to. Oh, including red inverted triangles and red handprints. They used the Internet and social media to broadcast their message to ensure their threats and commitment to continuing criminal activity were heard by their victims and others who support Israel. So what do we know about this noxious chemicals into family homes and breaking windows and throwing glass jars and such? We don't know anything about it. And quite frankly, the reason we don't know anything about it is because nobody was charged with that.

1:32:08Nobody's been charged with that. Nobody's been convicted of that. But it's here as if it's like a steadfast statement that they've done that, that this activity happened. And if there is criminality, let the criminality be charged, right? That would be a crime. Right. Let that have its day in court. But instead, we're taking these loaded allegations of criminality that have never been charged, nobody's been convicted of, and we're throwing them in here as if there's some steadfast rule. And my guess is if they had enough evidence to charge those crimes, they would have charged those crimes, but they didn't.

1:32:41So what they did is they charged their speech. And let's be frank, like saying like trying to tie red handprints to something that Hamas did is really kind of absurd. Like there is a general understanding that red like red handprints across all movements have meant that you have blood on your hands. It's a general symbol of killing. And to say that it's exclusively tied to Hamas is ludicrous and is done solely for a political purpose. Right. And the red triangle, you know, for people who don't know that, like that often appeared in Qasem videos where they would be putting out battle footage between them and the Israelis.

1:33:24And the red triangles would mark Israelis that they were targeting. But our language, and I'm curious how this holds up in court, like our language in general is very violent in the United States. Like we're always talking about, like all of our political language uses war metaphors. Just watch any debate for a city council even. and they're going to use metaphors from war to describe what they're doing in the campaign to their opponent or with their tactics or their strategy. It's just, this is a country that's been at war for most of its history and that's just what we're kind of soaked in. And so when you're talking about beating someone politically, if it is illegal to use Language related to battles or war.

1:34:21Pretty much every politician, I think, would be guilty of it. So I would think that the red triangle, like the red triangle seems to be obviously protected speech. If it's not, what does that do? If like that's criminal, what does, you know, where do you end up drawing then the boundaries over what can be said online? I mean, that's a great point, isn't it? Like symbolism is considered to be pure, pure speech, right? Even symbols are pure speech and they are protected under the First Amendment. And when you have one administration using the arm of law enforcement to determine what can and cannot be said, what is legitimate and what is not legitimate within the bounds of a viewpoint, we are running on a slippery slope where anybody who's coming after them can say, you know what, we don't like this.

1:35:13We find it to be inherently violent. We're not going to allow it to be used. And that's just not the standard of First Amendment that we have. The First Amendment protects all speech, even if you don't like it, even if it's ugly, except for really real threats. Like, that's clear. And the threats have to be specific. They have to be, you know, actually capable of being carried out and saying, hey, we're targeting you because you won't divest. when divest is one of the most peaceful forms of protest, right? It's the use of your dollars to commit to cause or to decommit from a cause. It's like the most peaceful kind of speech.

1:35:51And we don't want our tax dollars to be used for this. So we're going to target you until you divest. That's not inherently violent. They're trying to draw a line to say it's violent because they don't like the viewpoint that we're trying to divest from. And that's a real big problem. And I think more Americans should frankly be very, very worried that we're challenging the Constitution in this way. yeah and the speak people have been saying for a couple years now that the phrase from the river to the sea is violent they say which i think to most people are like what no that's that's ridiculous but what what they'll say is what they mean is that um from the river to the sea will be kind of one state and it will no longer be a jewish state and that will unleash then a genocide of the jewish Israeli people inside those borders.

1:36:48So therefore, I perceive that as a call to violence. You had Mark Dubowitz this week. I just went to find his tweet. I just noticed he deleted it. You may have seen this viral post where he said that Peter Beiner, who was an anti-Zionist Jewish writer, they said now that Ayatollah Khomeini is dead, now that Sinwar is dead, Peter Beiner is the biggest threat to the state of Israel because Peter Beiner supports a one-state solution with equal rights for all people within the state. According to Dubowitz, he's as violent as Yaga Sinwar because he's calling for that. if his now it read actually as a threat against Peter Beiner and apparently Dubowitz finally conceded to that and has deleted it but ironically what he seems to be saying is that calling for one state is a call for violence because it would lead to violence that from the river to the sea is violent because it would lead to violence and so it does seem like it is a way that it would start to criminalize all manner of speech that is dissenting from whatever the kind of hegemonic viewpoint is at the moment by saying that it's, well, three steps later, somebody might, there might be some violence down the road.

1:38:24Is there any chance that this prevails under the current court system that we have now? What is your sense of what the next step is? So, you know, just first a remark about your comment from the river to the sea. That requires an inference upon an inference. And it's ironic that calling for equal rights is seen as violent. But also, don't we have something similar here in the U.S. where we, it's like it's in one of the songs that were taught as children, from sea to shining sea. Is that inherently a call to violence against indigenous people of America? Because that's what they're saying that it is for Israel.

1:39:00And I think that more people should, you know, kind of, you know, critique that criticism of that language more in depth. But with regards to, like, what's going to happen, you know, we have a criminal justice system for a reason. The government is required to approve their case. They are going to have to show that these Twitter posts that say we're going to mobilize, organize, and escalate seeking divestment are somehow really real threats that they carried real weight and that they intended them to be threats. Like that's their burden, quite frankly, to prove. And I have faith in the criminal justice system.

1:39:42I have faith in our judiciary still, even though we've seen some, you know, not so great political decisions coming out of certain courts. So the hope is that, you know, the court will look at this, they'll get it right. And, you know, we will be free from having to worry about the politicization of the Department of Justice in a manner that's intended to stop the free flow of information on college campuses, which is where we want the free flow of information to be, quite frankly. All right. Well, we'll keep following this. I think this is an extraordinarily important case, which could wind up pushing us much closer to the UK and some other more restrictive places if they prevail in saying that these very vague claims of pursuing your political goals actually amount to violence.

1:40:37So, Amy, thanks for joining us and look forward to having you back on us to keep us updated as this unfolds. Thank you. This is Danielle Fischel. And Ryder Strong from Pod Meets World. When you have five and seven-year-old boys, I can promise you they love superheroes. Oh, it never goes away. Indy is 11 years old and he's obsessed with comics, cartoons, video games, all of it. Adler and Keaton both have Spider-Man costumes and if anything says Marvel on it, they are in. Same, which is why we love Lingo Kids. They have Marvel's Spider-Man activities that are totally age-appropriate. And safe, made just for the little ones.

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