6/3/26: Larry Ellison Net Worth Skyrockets On Data Centers, ICE Protests Erupt At Delaney Hall

27:26And the Delaney protests remind me of a distinction that I think has been raised, whether it was in Minneapolis or elsewhere. And I actually don't mean this in the context of Delaney because I believe people in our detention should be treated humanely, of course. But there has been a blurring of the distinction between resident and citizen that I find very interesting. is sometimes it seems as though, yes, we should be affording certain rights to people who are in detention, people who are here on green cards, visas, and the like, especially if we said we were going to. But also, there is a distinction between somebody who is living here in the United States legally, or in some cases illegally, and a citizen.

28:04And I think the meaning of citizen is why, I mean, the degraded meaning of citizen is probably why that distinction has been blurred. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, Lauren. No, I think it's a great point. I think, So much of what we're seeing in our struggles with illegal immigration now are really way downstream of, okay, but what is citizenship in the first place? Because I don't think it would be controversial to say on the left of center there has been much more a view that anybody has a right to come here. and the reality is that for citizenship to work for that sense of solidarity to exist it's actually incredibly important both in theory and in practice that the people who are the citizens of the nation have the right to decide who becomes a citizen if you're telling me I'm supposed to have some relationship to the other people but also I have no say in who those people are going to be that breaks down very quickly and so that's not necessarily an argument for or against any level of immigration, right?

29:03You could have a very well-functioning system that has many immigrants coming in, but it needs to be happening in a way that citizens who are already here feel like and in fact do have control over. And then it has to be happening in a way that actually imposes obligations on those people as well. That says if you want to come and be a part of this community, you know, it is not simply having that piece of paper. There are obviously enormous benefits and privileges that come with being here, with being a citizen. And that also then comes with obligations that we have to be willing to uphold. And so when I see, you know, the Hassan Piker protest, to me, it's just a perfect illustration of, you know, look, if the approach you're going to have is, well, all of these people are sort of, you know, entitled to their freedom, I think it's safe to say also, you know, anybody who's concerned whether they can speak English, anyone who's willing to embrace and share a culture that these are somehow, you know, racist or uncouth things to demand.

30:04These are actually the core things to demand. And one thing we really want to focus on is like, and by the way, even if you are sort of a, you know, more to the left of center, you want a much larger and more generous welfare state, you should almost be more concerned about demanding those things. I mean, it makes some sense. the libertarians are crazy but they have an internal coherence right libertarians will say like we want open borders and we want no welfare state that provides anything to anybody like well that's a terrible idea but like that's a that sounds awful but also like at least like you're putting your money where your mouth is sort of and and i think what's been a huge problem for the left of center is to say no no we are going to uphold all of these things that we must give to everybody, but we absolutely reject this idea that we are going to impose anything that's going to maintain the kind of solidarity and bonds of genuine citizenship.

30:58And that's where then in turn you just see trust start to break down. You see both at the community level, trust in the government. You see people feel like, why am I even paying taxes? What is this going to? Rio Grande Valley Hispanics voting for Trump. And then you see it is a really important point that a lot of people who have immigrated to this country and have become citizens the right way are often those who get this more than anybody and are especially frustrated by people who are not doing those things. And so, you know, I think it's really important to think about this as really at the root of a lot of the problems we're having here, but also to divorce it from what has been the fight about immigration for so long, which is like, well, either you're pro-immigration, and that is the sort of humane, we care about every race, or you're anti-immigration, and that's somehow xenophobic or racist or whatever else.

31:55either you're pro a good concept of citizenship which can absolutely incorporate immigration but does it in a way that's going to work or you're against that and you're you're ending up where we are today which is a giant mess one kind of adjacent disagreement i would i would have with you guys as the talking about the that we would treat citizens and non-citizens differently i think it's a kind of a fundamental american thing that the constitution says you know all people who are here, however they're here, even murderers in prison, like have the Bill of Rights applies to them, our Constitution applies to them.

32:32I just mean like non-citizens voting in D.C. elections, something like that. Right. Right, and yes. And we could, that's an interesting one too, because if you live there and you have a stake, you want people to have a stake in the society. But I feel like, and often when I'm reading American Compass stuff, I'm like, how is this right-wing? I agree with all of this stuff for the most part. You also sound like the libertarians who are Orrin's critics. Yeah, there you go. So I do feel like there is a compromise that kind of reinvigorates the kind of Bernie Sanders, kind of AFL-CIO, mid-2000s kind of position.

33:13And one place I somewhat disagree, and maybe I'm wrong, But particularly during the Biden administration, there's a belief on the right that the Biden administration deliberately unleashed and pulled in a massive wave of migrants because they wanted to destroy the country and that they thought these people are going to then become Democratic voters and they're going to lock down the country forever. Like, I think that is a genuinely held view among a lot of people on the right, which I just think is incorrect. And to your point, like, analytically, like, a lot of people who come in and are immigrants and become citizens, they vote for Republicans.

33:57Like, even from, even on its own terms, like, this idea that millions of people coming in is automatically, and also they can't vote. and let's say, okay, their kids are going to vote and let's say it's Chuck Schumer's 20-year plan. Like, it's not, there's no guarantee that they're going to be Democrats. If you're going to cheat to take over the country, this would be the craziest way to go about doing it. I think what actually happened is that Trump did slow immigration significantly in his first term and then COVID shut it down completely in like March of 2000. And you had - Well, border crossings were going up.

34:37There were caravans that were sending a lot of migrants. Border crossings were going up. I don't know about the net, but. Yeah, I mean, the problem. And then you had the economic collapse in Venezuela and Cuba, and you had this mass push to the border, and then it pours over. But my point is, however you feel about that, I think it's crazy to think it was a giant conspiracy. I think it happened, because I knew people involved. They were just overwhelmed at what was going on. and wasn't something, and they were trying to just deal with it. Regardless of that, I feel like Democrats overall, maybe not the activist groups, but Democrats overall, are at a place where they're like, okay, you know what?

35:17We were wrong about that. Like, that was bad policy. It didn't help the migrants. It didn't help workers. It didn't help anybody. And it hurt us politically. And so, fine. You know, we need a stronger border. Like, we're not going to do that again. At the same time, what's happening in Delaney Hall and at these ice detention facilities across the country, and thankfully, they're not sending ice as viciously through places like Minneapolis as they were before. But that kind of thing where you're arresting. Let me jump in here because I really disagree with a few elements of this. First of all, I think you're right that it can be overwritten as a sort of elaborate multi-decade conspiracy theory.

36:01It is unquestionably the case that the Biden administration could have controlled immigration and chose not to. And the way that we know that is because six months before the election, when they realized they were going to get crushed, they did. So this was a choice by the Biden administration. And it was a disastrously bad one. The second thing I think is very important to say about now the challenges that we're having in enforcing the law is that this is the inevitable downstream consequence of what the Biden administration did. You cannot say we are going to lawlessly allow millions of people into the country.

36:37And then when the voters, as you said, even the Democratic Party is ready to admit, wow, that wasn't a really good idea, say, whoa, whoa, whoa, we can't believe now it's hard to actually enforce law and do something about it. And, you know, I don't know about the details in Lainey Hall. I think, to your point, you know, humane detention and so forth is critical. But I also really take issue with this idea that, you know, oh, well, ICE is like viciously going to Minneapolis. Because here's the thing. Most ICE activity and detentions and deportations are happening in states we don't hear anything about.

37:09Why is that? Well, because they're going to U-visa appointments or... No, because they're doing it in states where the governments in the states and the cities agree to work with ICE and enforce the law. Maybe like New Orleans or Memphis. In Texas, what you are seeing in a conflict in place like Minneapolis is a sanctuary city. You're seeing a city that is saying we refuse to support the enforcement of the law. And in fact, we're going to obstruct it in all sorts of ways. And in that context, yes, it's going to be very messy. And so to your point, oh, well, Democrats understand this now. Sanctuary cities is question number one.

37:44When I see the sanctuary cities reversing those policies, I'll believe you that, in fact, we're ready to get serious about this. And if I don't see that, and I think the American people don't see that, it's going to be very hard to take seriously this. Like, no, no, we want to just do this the right way. We want to do this humanely. Unfortunately, it looks like you don't want to enforce the law at all. And that's a huge challenge. Yeah, so I guess the point is that if we're really going to take this idea of citizenship seriously and if we're all citizens first, then it has to get beyond this left versus right, Democrat versus Republican.

38:17I think somebody like Stephen Miller, who even Trump has said, you know, if you had your way, there'd be 100 million people here and they'd all look like you. And that is then expressed as policy where he's mandating these 3 ,000, 4 ,000, whatever it is a day. And it's producing. You mean deportations? Right, 3 ,000 deportations. Yeah. Now, do you remember how many people were coming across the border? It was a lot. It was a lot. It was. Right. So at what rate would you like to deport the millions and millions of people that we agree the Biden administration shows? So I think this would be the interesting place where if we're serious about a compromise, I think it would look something like violent criminals.

39:02But as citizens come together and say, look, we're going to focus on deporting violent criminals. That's the first thing. We can all agree on this. So we're going to focus on that as citizens of this country, people who are following the law. And we're going to close the border in a serious way, as you guys want. And people who are following the law and who love our country and are here for the right reasons, we're going to find a pathway to make them citizens. If we can't come to that kind of agreement, then we'll just do every two years war back and forth. And, you know, so what is. So I just want to point out the irony here is you were telling me there was no Biden conspiracy.

39:48These people aren't going to be able to vote anyway. But now the only acceptable compromise is no, no, with the exception of the violent criminals, they should all be given citizenship. So I so I question that as a common sense compromise. Secondly, it seems to me there are some other things we could do here, for instance, workplace enforcement. Right. If we just if we write. Because, in fact, every one of these people who are here illegally and working, there is a violation of the law there as well. And so, you know, that's one place I think, you know, Republican parties overwhelmingly in favor of mandatory verify.

40:23I think that's a great place we could be taking much firmer action. Well, I'm curious to actually hear some contrast between both of you on the labor question. You know, on the yes. And on the citizen question, let's say you really worry that these people are going to vote for Democrats. I think it's I think it's overblown. But you can say, OK, here's the pathway to citizenship is here's a legal work requirement. You have to work for you can work for 12 years, but that's compliant with E-Verify that this that is not a second class kind of workforce that is working in the shadows. A fake social security.

40:55Right. So the. And then they be. But they are citizens or they. After, say, 12 years. OK. It's 2026. We upgraded our phones, our cars, even our coffee. So why are we still acting like pleasure is negotiable? At Pink Cherry, it's not. They've got hundreds of toys that actually deliver. And if you don't know where to start, their mystery boxes make it easy. Go to Pink Cherry dot com and use promo code Chelsea to save up to 80 percent site wide because life is hard. Feeling good shouldn't be. Pink Cherry dot com because everyone deserves pleasure. I turned off news altogether. I hate to say it, but I don't trust much of anything.

41:37It's the rage bait. It feels like it's trying to divide people. If we got clear facts, maybe we can calm down a little. NBC News brings you clear reporting. Let's meet at the facts. Let's move forward from there. NBC News, reporting for America. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baja Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, over 45 fine dining and nightlife venues, Jean-Baptiste's all-new jazz club, the Caribbean's most luxurious casino, and one-of-a-kind experiences for the entire family, like our 15-acre tropical water park, wildlife sanctuary, world-class golf course, and so much more.

42:28Visit Bahamar.com today. Let's roll this clip of Scott Bessett, and I'll get your take on this, Oren, because you interviewed him last night. But Scott Bessett gave what a lot of people are reacting to as a major economic speech at the Reagan Library last week. And he was talking about economic security as national security and how we've kind of, the way he sees it, that we've sort of divorced these two things when they should always be thought of together. And citizenship and labor are obviously a huge component of this. So let's roll the clip. While America slept, our vulnerabilities grew. But under President Trump's leadership, we are alert to the risk we can no longer ignore and attuned to the responsibility we can no longer defer.

43:09Under President Trump, we have awoken to mourning again in America and our best days, I believe, still lie ahead. So not to interrupt the conversation you were having, but to continue it. Ryan, you would say our birth rate is a serious problem. So you would say, and Oren, you would probably agree with Ryan on that. You would say also that we need people to work more of these jobs. We have a huge chunk of actually working age men, 10 percent of working age men outside of the labor force. But also, you know, it's hard to fill some of these jobs. So, Oren, if we're bringing manufacturing back to the United States, first of all, are we?

43:47Second of all, is that going to do we have workers for that if we're also engaged in mass deportations? Well, so I think we certainly are bringing manufacturing back. Wall Street Journal's Greg Gipp has been calling it a stealth manufacturing boom because the reality is step one is you actually have to build new factories. Right. You're not going to see the actual hiring for some time. But, you know, to your point, we certainly have plenty of people outside the labor force. We have plenty of people in much lower productivity jobs that might be well served by jobs in the manufacturing sector. We also have a lot of technological change happening that people think is going to vastly increase productivity.

44:28If anything, they're concerned that, you know, we won't have enough work for everybody. And so, you know, I think both on this question of sort of immigration enforcement, on this question of the labor market and reshoring, it again all comes back to this idea for me of the first question here is what sort of nation do we want to be and, you know, what sort of model do we want to go forward on? and then questions of economic policy, questions of how much growth are you getting, these questions, you then decide those within the confines of the kind of country that you want to be. And so, you know, the phrase jobs Americans won't do, I think is a quintessential example of the problem here.

45:12The idea that we're going to have a whole class of jobs in our economy that the people who live here won't do is sort of simultaneously demeaning to the people who absolutely will work if there are jobs with good conditions that pay a living wage. And it's ridiculous to suggest that employers and business models should be operating in ways that create jobs that don't meet those conditions. So I think, you know, what we really have to focus on is saying there need to be some constraints here. Citizenship, in one respect, is a constraint. We have the citizens of this country for whom the market operates, right?

45:53The point is not for citizens to serve the market. The point is for the market to be serving citizens. And so how do we change policies to actually generate those kinds of results? Some of the things we're doing with trade and industrial policy is a way to drive more investment, get more of a focus on creating these kinds of jobs. I think an element of the immigration policy definitely has to be, okay, what is the premise of immigration policy? If the premise is, well, we just need to add people to do jobs, that I think very much demeans the notion of citizenship as a community and a nation first and foremost.

46:33And so I actually appreciated, Ryan, you mentioned sort of the Bernie Sanders AFL-CIO view of the maybe mid-2000s. on something like immigration. Teamsters sponsored the gala last night. Teamsters sponsored the gala last night. Teamsters, I think, you know, are much less beholden to some of the more left-wing activist groups at this point. The reality is that the AFL-CIO no longer has the AFL-CIO decision. Bernie Sanders no longer has the Bernie Sanders position. And so I think you're absolutely right that there is a point of view on what immigration should look like that Democrats historically, and Republicans historically held, right?

47:11It did not used to be nearly as contentious an issue. And the reality, I think it was the Financial Times had some wonderful charts on this a year or two ago where they showed, you know, with various measures, you know, what was the Republican independent Democrat or conservative moderate liberal perspective on immigration. And what it showed was the right of center and centrist view just sort of proceeding without any real change. and the left of center view veering way off. And, you know, like you can say, and the left center view was right to do that. They should be pulling everyone over. But as a descriptive matter, the divisiveness of this issue, the shift in how we talk and argue about it, and ultimately our, I would say, sort of loss of that concept of citizenship, to the extent we're in the immigration context, that veer on the left is the thing that is causing the change.

48:07and I think we really have to grapple with. But then I would just say also that, you know, immigration is one obviously very relevant piece of the citizenship conversation, but it's certainly not all or even most of it, right? I mean, even if you completely fixed all of our immigration problems, we would still have this broader breakdown in communal life, in economic life, in national life. And so, you know, it's unfortunate in some respects to the extent that because of the direction immigration has gone, it has become as central a focus as it is. But moving beyond that really requires not just making sure we have a stable and sane immigration system.

48:52You know, it just as much requires thinking about what is the pathway for a young person into adulthood, right? You know, the way that we did sort of college for all, I think it's been a disaster. We've sort of said either you're somebody who's going to go to college, succeed there and head off in life, or we just kind of have nothing for you. And so, you know, how do we think about the role of education? How do we think about transitioning into adulthood? All of that is a big piece of discussion. I think, you know, place and just caring about it, not saying, well, everyone can move to opportunity.

49:25And frankly, we're going to strip mine all the most talented people out of a lot of communities. So saying places is the most important thing in a lot of ways in a lot of people's lives. And so how do we make sure, you know, the economic growth and opportunity, the vitality of communities is getting out to everywhere instead of saying, well, here are the enclaves you can come to if you want it. Those are the kinds of things we're really going to have to address and prioritize over the next quarter's GDP number. Well, I mean, one thing that keeps people in places is you got to have a hospital. You got to have a hospital.

50:01You got to have a rural hospital. You got it. And it helps if you have a college or a university, even a small one. Just statistically, like, that's going to keep people who. Yeah. So I totally agree with that. The problem is what's special about those two things. It's that they attract massive amounts of government spending. In other words. Well, the hospital hell. No, no. But they're important in its own right as well. That's absolutely true. But economically, what's going on here is that as you've – it used to be, well, of course you'd have a hospital there because if you have a vibrant community and people who are doing well and prospering, you would want to have a hospital there.

50:36You're saying it would follow the prosperity. Right. You didn't used to have to worry about, wait a minute, how do we get health care to this place? Because if it was a vibrant place, of course – Well, you used to just have a country doctor that had likes him. And at some point – that's right. Our health care system has obviously evolved. And in rural communities, you also just have a scale problem. But the extent to which we now think, oh, well, in a lot of places, you have to have a hospital and you have to have a college is because those are the two things that you can put there that simply by enrolling people or admitting people entitle you to massive amounts of federal money.

51:13Right. Like land-grant universities being a critical Lincoln thing. Well, once upon a time, it was land-grant universities. Now it's just anybody whose students are eligible for financial aid and student loans, many of which will never even be paid back. But that's the vicious cycle because you were saying people can't exist in some of these areas without the federal spending at the Royal Hospital now because they don't have private sector insurance. They're the big factory that employed people. It's gone. And so they're basically we're in a vicious cycle kind of is how I'm seeing what both of you are saying.

51:42It's very hard to attract companies to move to an area if there's no if there's no hospital. And a university helps, too. Yeah, I think certainly. And, you know, one thing with respect to university that's very important is we concentrate all of our federal research spending for leading edge research in a very few places. There's no reason we have to do that, especially in the sort of modern communication and so forth. It's not like you need all the best scientists of every kind living in Cambridge, Massachusetts or, you know, Palo Alto, California or even New York City. There's no reason you can't take that sort of funding and direct it more towards having great labs in every state university around the country and start pushing things back out that way.

52:27The reason I just emphasize the sort of public spending of eds and meds, as they call it, is just to say, you know, the reason that's how the landscape looks today is because we've hollowed out the rest of it so completely. And you're right, given that the vicious cycle that we're in, bootstrapping it the other way requires a lot of attention to these things. But I think it's very important that the aspiration not be, well, as long as we have enough funding for health care and higher education, all of these places can survive. But rather to say, no, no, the long term goal has to be that these are productive, flourishing places that can also support a healthy hospital system that wants to have a college and so forth.

53:09but that first and foremost is a viable community. I would just finish with one practical and pragmatic point that if we want to get to a place where as American citizens we're actually discussing among ourselves how we're going to solve some of these problems because I agree with you it's not sufficient to get to embed meaning in citizenship to deal with immigration but it is necessary to deal with first. I would just say to the millions of people that came across during the Biden administration like their policy or don't like the policy it was the policy that was in place and they and they actually did follow the rules of this policy that was in place if if there's insistence that it has to be a Stephen Miller approach where you know mandatory detention is required for people who haven't committed any crimes like not even not even bail while they're like contesting these asylum claims or anything else they're just locked in these detention facilities and they're getting scooped up off the street.

54:07If that's going to be the way that Republicans, when they're in power, insist on dealing with immigration, then Democrats are never going to come around on the other parts of it. They're never going to say, okay, wrong on this, wrong on this. Let's do a comprehensive type of reform that gets us to a place where we can have a rational policy. That's just my guess. This is not very hopeful. That if Republicans have to say, okay, well, let's focus on violent criminals then. let's focus on but they have republicans have their own agency if they just want to like well look this is why i say there are different ways to enforcement and this is why i think the workplace enforcement is is a much better test because i agree with you you know one thing we've found in certainly it shows from the polling data we've had you're going to lose the support for their had folks who are for people writing for commonplace about this um that that's right the most sort of confrontational, aggressive approach to enforcement is not popular with a lot of people.

55:07Workplace enforcement saying, if you're not here legally, if you are not allowed to work here, you in fact can't work here. That has an extraordinarily powerful effect. Again, not in overnight detaining people and destroying their lives necessarily, but in creating a very strong pressure for people to depart in an orderly way. And so I think it's a very helpful litmus test. Is your objection to the way they're doing it or is your objection to the notion that these people really do need to leave? And if it's just, you know, we would like to do this in a humane way, workforce enforcement offers that.

55:49And so I think that's where you see a lot of folks. Miller's approach requires the inhumanity. And I understand that criticism of what Trump is doing today. I think the flip side of your point about what Democrats will accept is, well, if Democrats won't even accept workforce enforcement, if we can't actually get to a place where everybody agrees. I think they would as long as there's a path for people who came here through the process to get a work permit. Then I think they'd be fine with that. This is exactly what I'm telling you. This is the actual question. is the people is the millions and millions of people who came in here who in frankly a very lawless way during the biden administration is the end not just the biden administration you're right and even before one of my one of my good friends from growing up as a contractor and he's like give me a union hall where i can go and hire legal people and i'm happy to do that love to pay the wages, whatever.

56:46I don't care. You, you as in the broad you, our government, our society, have built a system where that is not possible. So then you go in and then you take all these workers and then deport them without there being another option. Well, let's be clear. So it's completely insane. I agree with an apolitical guy who's like, like my framers deported. This is just, I think this is an instance where this connects really to this richer sense of citizenship, which is one of the reasons you as a contractor can't go do that. It's because if you do, you'll just lose out to the people who are doing the other thing.

57:24And so it's fine to say like - But the union hall doesn't exist. Right. But one reason the union hall doesn't exist is because who would go hire from the union hall if there's a massive exploitable population of undocumented immigrants to hire instead? And so it is a prerequisite, again, to having the kind of economic life we want that does give workers power that does create that opportunity. Let me just finish the point. It's a fantasy to have an economic life where we enforce labor law, have a tight labor market, and have good jobs for Americans? It is a fantasy that you're going to be able to grab 20 million people.

57:59Well, you just use grab again. Why can't I just enforce workforce law? Why can't I just enforce the law on the books against employers who employ people illegally? Well, you're still going to have to grab people. No, I'm not. I'm going to fine employers and perhaps even arrest some employers if they continue to employ people legally. My point is you have to also support the other side. But you haven't told me why that's a fantasy. Why can't I just require that employers follow the law? Because all of the housing construction will stop. So now we're back to jobs Americans won't do. And that's just not the way to get citizenship.

58:32Or at least there'll be a temporary pause. I'm just saying practically speaking. Or slow down. I'm not saying virtuous or not virtuous. It's just practically speaking, and then politically, you lose. So there has to be some mechanism for people to hire people legally. I would say give people who are here, who are following the law, work permits. Why is that? What's wrong with that? Well, for one thing, because they are not currently here legally, and we should have been enforcing the law all along, and we can do that now. Or a second thing, because the exact workers they're competing with. We built the wrong system.

59:15Nobody else is coming in, but the people here now, we're going to give them work permits. And anybody who hires somebody illegally, you're getting significant consequences. Well, because a lot of the problem is that the exact class of people who these workers are competing with are the ones who have seen a very weak job market for a very long time, in part because of this competition. and we should be trying to tighten that job market aggressively. People in the upper half of the income distribution, people with college degrees, and this is, again, where we've had this divergence in society, you know, take for granted that this stuff is all fine.

59:52We should want the same kind of experience in the job market for the construction worker that you or I get to experience. And that requires a much tighter job market than we have had. And so, you know, to some extent, I guess I even question your premise that, you know, housing construction come to a stop. I think one thing we can do if you want to say, you know, we need a transition period. We need to phase this out over a few years. That's fine. But the end point should be essentially where we started here, which is that citizenship is about the American citizens. That is who this republic exists for.

1:00:31That is who formed the republic. And the question is, what is the set of policies that's going to serve them best? That's my point. You've got to transition to it. And what we're doing now isn't actually going to transition to that, I don't think. We'll probably have to leave it there. But thank you so much, Oren Kass from American Compass. That was a really interesting conversation. We appreciate it. Folks can check out the new project in Commonplace on the Compass website. Thanks, Oren. Thank you, guys. Well, that does it for us on today's edition of Breaking Points. We apologize. The show is going to hit premium subs in boxes a little bit late because we had such a great conversation with Orrin Cass.

1:01:06Our producers were like, rap, rap. But we wanted to just, no, I thought it was great. I didn't want to disrupt the flow of that. But thank you everyone so much for joining us today. We appreciate it. And we, Ryan and I will be back Friday with, I think, Crystal and Griffin. All right. See you then.

1:02:00We'll see you next time. mix for you so you can discover new favorites without overthinking it. And they ship discreetly with free shipping on orders over$59, which we love. So go to pinkcherry.com and use promo code CHELSEA to save up to 80 % off site-wide. Because life is hard, feeling good shouldn't be. Pinkcherry.com, because everyone deserves pleasure. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baja Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, over 45 fine dining and nightlife venues, Jean Batiste's all-new jazz club, the Caribbean's most luxurious casino, and one-of-a-kind experiences for the entire family, like our 15-acre tropical water park, wildlife sanctuary, world-class golf course, and so much more.

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