7/19/24: Saagar Asks Andrew Schulz "Do You Regret Voting For Trump", JD Vance Vibe Check

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1:42So, hey, want to get started? Just head to CarMax.com for details and get pre-qualified today. Want to drive? CarMax. What's up, everybody? Welcome to Breaking Points, but this time it is being filmed in the Flagrant 2 studio here with the entire crew. Thank you guys so much for actually letting me use your studio after we recorded just a great episode, and it's really good to be with all of you. Absolutely, my man. All right, so I wanted to do this. Both Crystal and I have been wanting to talk to you guys for a while, kind of a reflection of Podcast Bro and the election. Andrew, you specifically have come under a lot of fire recently as the Podcast Bro, the guy who led the way for Trump, but now is apparently having some regrets.

2:23You don't know that? Trump had no support until Andrew said he was going to vote. It's funny, I know. He was like going to lose. Okay, but well, let's put it this way. I wouldn't say it swung the election, but I also wouldn't say that it wasn't unimportant to have Trump on all of these, right? And this is just part of like kind of that segment of the audience. And so my question is that in retrospect, do you wish that you would handle the Trump interview differently? No, not at all. Now that you've seen it. So go into that a little bit. No, I don't regret it. single thing like about it i don't know why that like i don't even know where the question comes from well the question comes from an idea uh that was a lot of criticism from the quote independent or not non-independent media and they were like well trump is going on these podcasts to kind of whitewash his reputation and basically to not face like quote tough journalistic questions yeah it just depends what your expectation of journalism is i think that like i mean you can speak to this a lot but i was speaking to david marchese at the new york times about this yeah so i read your interview with him.

3:18Yeah. So it's like, and you know, there were some moments where he was like asking me some questions and I was like, ah, this is where things feel a little bit gotcha. Cause he, he, he was assuming that I talked to Bernie about one thing that I didn't talk to Trump about. And I'm like, but when did I talk to Bernie about it? And he's like, well, I can't exactly say it. I'm like, well, that's kind of where it feels gotcha because you're coming in with a specific intention. Yeah, that's right. So like, and I actually think that he was like really fair and that was a great interview, but like an example of like my least favorite type of journalism, I'm just the most low-hanging fruit is like the girl that interviewed Tim Dillon.

3:50It's not really an interview. It's like an indictment. It's like, I think this thing of you, and I seek to prove that to my audience. I'm not coming here with any curiosity. So, like, we don't see ourselves as like, I can't speak for the guys, but like as journalists so much as say it's just like people that are having conversations that we're curious with. Now, I understand that when you get a lot of people listening, like, yeah, you should. You should, if you're a responsible person, think about what you owe, I guess, to the audience and have that discussion. That's fair, and don't get me wrong.

4:20But I don't subscribe to this idea that you have to ask these hard questions that you're not curious about, or people that watch will criticize you. It's like, you don't have to watch. Sure. If you're in front of me, I'm going to ask you the things that I'm curious about. People are like, why don't you ask him about Epstein? And I'm like, oh, so he can give the same fucking answer he's given for the last two decades? It's like, he's not going to immediately sit down with me and then after three questions be like, you know, we used to fuck them kids. That's not how these things work. So for me, I think one of the reasons for the rise in podcasting opposed to like normal or traditional media is that you have people asking questions that they're authentically interested in.

4:59Instead of asking questions that like they think that their boss wants them to ask or they're worried their base wants to ask. because now you're not even curious in the questions you're asking. You're asking them out of fear of retribution from your audience. And now you're captured by your audience instead of your own curiosity. And I would also say, yeah, absolutely. There are, at that point, in the polls, they were actually neck and neck and Trump always overperforms in polls. So I don't know what impact we actually had, but there were two candidates left for president of the United States.

5:28I don't want to talk to both of them. I want to talk to both of them. And second of all, there's things we all talked about that we wanted to ask Trump, But I could do the thing that feels really good where I ask a gotcha question and I dunk on you. And then he gets up and he walks off and he says, go fuck yourself. I know. I've seen enough interviews with this guy to know I have to relate to him on a human level. And then when he feels safe, maybe he'll answer the questions I want to ask. Are you going to run for a third term? Are you willing to tone down the rhetoric? I got to ask those questions.

5:58But you had to get to the point where he's willing to answer those questions. So I could have done the thing that feels good and dunked on him. but we would have gotten absolutely nowhere. And who does it feel good for? And that's a tactical thing. No, it's important. You just have to have the things that you want to ask and ask him. And I had three things I wanted to ask him about. I asked him about those three things. Okay. And that was it. Right. Yeah. I will say my only wish is that Kamala came up. Yeah. Yeah. To me, it seems like a Nixon-Humphrey's thing where they have the laugh-in moment and Nixon does it and it turns out great.

6:26And that it was a strategic blunder from their side to not go on to these non-traditional platforms. Alex, anything? Same. Ditto. Well, I think the question then is— If we have Kamala on, you really can't say anything, because we're going to ask Kamala the same questions. We're going to have the same curiosity. We're going to laugh with her. We're going to make her look like a human. Exactly. And the authentic curiosity is going to shine through. And if she bombs the interview, that's on her. If she does great, that's on her, just like with Trump. But we're going to ask the things that we're curious about.

6:54And I think that, like, the numbers show that if you look at anything from Rogan, you look at anything to, like, Alex Cooper, it's not just this right-wing thing. There's a left one. When people are asking the questions that they're curious about, the interviews are indulged far more when they're doing puff piece things like when Alex Cooper had Kamala on, nobody gives a fuck about it. And I think that tells you everything you want. Yeah, I don't disagree at all. But if we flip it around, if Trump were to come back today, which we hope you will, right? I hope you guys put it. Yeah, I would talk to him again.

7:24They put a statement out about you guys. Would it be different tonally this time around now that you've actually had him in office? and would you feel what, like, how would you feel as somebody then who had been critical of him walking into that? Like, tonally, would it be different in terms of the tenor that you might take and asking a follow-up question? Here's the thing. Like, we said this before. Like, I'm not in one of your fucking cults. Like, I'm not in the right wing called the left wing. I'm a free American and I'll ask whatever fucking questions I want to ask. Okay. So like, for me, when somebody's in power, that's not when you relax, especially if it's a person that you voted for.

8:00That's where you hold them to their promises. So like Trump comes back on, which he absolutely invited to come back on as the leader of the free world. I want to know what's up with the Epstein shit. Like you campaigned hard. Your boys campaigned hard. Your girls campaigned hard on it. I want to know why we're not seeing it. I want to know why you like, we're so flippant about it. You know? So I want to know that. I want to know what's going on with the foreign wars and specifically is, is diplomacy harder than you thought? And what are the, what are the restrictions to your power when it comes to diplomacy.

8:31And you've been president already. You must know that diplomacy is difficult. Why do you think it would be easier this time around? And what are the hiccups? So I want to know these things, but it's not about a different tenor or anything like that. When you're running for president, it's hope. What will you do? You're selling me dreams. And when you are president, it's delivery. And delivery is way harder than hope. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, I loved Obama. I voted for him. I was so excited about Obama. I know that you're not a big fan, but to me, yes. And it's like, he sold us hope so well.

9:02Some people will be like, ah, he under delivered on that hope. Some people would be like, he over delivered. It was amazing to see what he got accomplished. You know, if you ask anybody who had preexisting conditions, I think that they're pretty fucking happy Republican or Democrat, what he was able to put through. So to me, that's what it's all about. It's just like, And if you're not willing to hold the person that you voted for to the standards that they expected, then you're not a real person that cares about what's happening in America. Right, yeah. If you were one of these people that refused to acknowledge that Biden was senile for four years, and now you're lecturing me about holding Trump accountable, I think that you need to take a long look in the mirror about what you're willing to do for the people that you voted for.

9:46That is a very, very fair question. Do you guys have anything to add on that? To add to that, the questions would be tougher because we are disappointed in what we're seeing. Sure. But the tenor of the question still has to be asked in a way that I feel confident you will answer. Okay. If it's, hey, man, what the fuck are you doing? This bullshit-ass thing. This sucks. Do you think he's going to answer that question? I don't disagree with you. Yeah, that's more at the people who, yeah. Yeah, well, I just, what I'm doing is I'm, like, imbibing, there isn't even, like, independent media. So, like, the left independent media that I have been able to interact with, they have a theory that the podcast guys were basically taken for a ride.

10:19Like they're looking at it as, look, Trump knew that he wasn't gonna get asked anything that he might get on NBC News or anywhere else. He basically wanted to use the audience to convince them that he was a normal dude and get them to vote for him. And that in retrospect - Isn't that what every politician does? Well, so I agree. I'm just getting to that point. So it's like, to the extent that you think that that happened, like it's not a complicity question. It's really more about a question of how do you balance that in the art of politics? I think you guys are more forgivable, if that makes sense, in that critique because you actually have had on a lot of people.

10:56But I'm saying speaking generally, like to the Theo Vaughn and Joe Rogan and what Nelk Boys and all of the podcast, the Bussin' podcast and Bussin' with the Boys and all that. Like he obviously used that to some political advantage. And now many of those people are upset and they're not necessarily as willing as you to kind of speak out against that or to invite the other side. Who is upset? Well, I'm saying so. Some of the people who privately have had on these people may be upset at the thing that Trump has done. Another podcaster might be upset with Trump, but they're not as willing right now, you know, to be able to say it.

11:30Or they have to couch their criticisms, maybe less so than you have. So like, how do you look at it like generally? For me personally, I'm curious. I've heard so much things about Trump from the media. oh, he's this, he's that. But seeing him in person in long form, he has less of an opportunity to bullshit us. Like once you're talking for a good amount of time, you can start to gauge. And I wanted to really know who he was. And I got a sense he was much sharper than I thought he was. Like he's - Incredibly sharp. He's aware of everything going on. He's a media creature. Yeah, so it's like that - It's actually amazing to watch.

12:01I agree. To me, anybody who wouldn't want to speak to somebody who's former president and potentially a next president - You're not a serious person. Yeah, like it doesn't make any sense. No, we're not talking about - This isn't a platforming argument. No, but they're saying that they might have used us. This is about being used, like to the extent of like, to convince voters and to use people. Because look, I'm telling you guys, this did happen. Like I had multiple Trump interview requests and they were basically like, no. And I heard it off the record. It's like, bro, you're going to ask him two hard questions.

12:26Like it was quite literally told to me, right? Now I think, I mean, there's a reason he's going on Theo Vaughn and all, you know, another place because they didn't think that that was going to happen. So, I mean, like, that's what I'm asking for a reflection. I had three things I wanted to ask him about. And the entire interview was, in my mind, I think, like designed to get him to a place of comfort where he could honestly speak at length on those things. I wanted him to acknowledge he was going to protect IVF. It's obviously important to me. It's how my wife and I would be able to conceive. We're over to the Wade.

12:54We're abortion. We wanted to ask him about that. We did. Oh, yeah. We asked him about the abortion. But it was, yeah, there was like a little interest in that for sure. But for me, it was empathy for the illegals. Yeah. Which doesn't seem that he's doing, you know. And to his credit, man, Andrew said to Trump, you have had people working in your establishment who were here illegally. Yeah, you did say that. I remember that. So it's like, and then there was one more. And he asked him to be nicer, I think. No, it was like— Not nicer, but more Trump. Turned down the red. What are we doing here? And then there was obviously the end of the foreign wars.

13:26Al said, your ear looks fine. I mean, if you listen, we said some shit. This is the revisionist history that's so funny, and I think it's very important. because I think what happens a lot of times is people are looking to skirt accountability. So anybody that's critical of these interviews would like to put all the success of Trump's campaign on these interviews instead of putting some accountability on the fact that they ran a dead guy and then a woman that couldn't speak. Sure. Like, you need to, at the end of the day, take some accountability for not really having another offering that was successful to the majority of people.

14:00Totally. So I think it's easier to just place that blame. So I think there's a little bit of that going on. And we called him out for evading the question, and then he was clever enough to come up with a term that's the weave situation. What did he say? He's like, it's the weave. But no, the revisionist history I'm talking about is, if you remember, and there are plenty of articles that would support this, the second that interview came out, the conversation was not, look at this puff piece. The conversation was on all left-wing media, was podcast host laughs in Trump's face about claiming that he's a kind of truthful person.

14:39That was a breaking point. It was good. It was a good headline. It was every headline. I was watching in real time. The Kamala campaign was clipping the interview. Kamala HQ clipped it. They clipped it nonstop. So if you actually look at this, the left-wing media was using this as fuel for their fire. they weren't going look at this puff beast they asked the nice questions when everybody watched initially the left was very happy about they're like finally a podcast bro whatever holds him to the fire finally there's all this stuff so this revisionist history where like after the election results we look back and be like oh they just fluffed him it's like well what was it fair was it the best interview with Trump which you guys said the left wing is saying or was it the reason he got elected yeah I like no it's a very fair that's why I feel like this stuff is like disingenuous If he lost, it would have been, oh, Trump ruined his election by going on all these podcasts.

15:35Exactly. No question. And people did say that, right? Remember, like, oh, Tony Hinchcliffe is going to cost Trump the election. The Puerto Rican vote went up. Also, taken for a ride, this is a ride that was open to Kamala. She didn't want to come on. Right. It was open for Walt. She didn't want to come on. It was open for everybody. We literally asked everybody. But then after the election, now a lot of them are coming on, which I think is good. And I think it's a great thing. This is what we want. And I think that's the interesting part, you know, to watch Buttigieg kind of come on here. And his clips went massively popular.

16:01Yeah, he was very good. So did Bernie, and he was fantastic. Bernie's as well. And I think what a lot of people are realizing that don't just watch headlines, the people who eventually wouldn't really watch us and had a perception of us, and then they go watch, like, the full Buttigieg interview, they watch the full, is that, like, this idea that, like, we're this, like, MAGA pod is really just kind of, like, placed on us. in reality where four guys who live in new york city born and raised i mean alex and i born and raised in new york city like lifelong democrats right who felt i vote to fuck them all yeah yeah we've forgiven the uh but like but like so so this idea of us i think you obviously know us so it's like not really true and then i think people are trying to grapple with when they watch the buddha judge interview like what they thought we were and then what we actually are.

16:48And that's what happens when you only read and watch headlines. Now, what I always say is like, we're accountable for that. When we put content out on the internet, you know, it can be cut and sliced in all these different ways. So like, that's not their fault. That's, that's our, I don't want to call fault, but we're accountable. That's totally fine. That's the game we play. And eventually we hope that enough different voices come on the podcast as we'd all endeavor to do where people get a better sense of a sense of us. But like, you're going to go through criticism on the way. And if the first time you get criticism, you fold, you never really were about in the first place.

17:22Yeah. All right. Let's switch to immigration because this is where I find the most interesting divide. So I don't know if it's true. And I didn't ask Joe if it was true, but there was a report about dinner. Joe Rogan had dinner with Trump and he was like, hey, I want you to go lighten up on mass deportation. You have been very open about it. I wish that he wasn't doing this. That's the one thing where I'm like, you really didn't know what you were voting for? Like there was a sign that said mass deportation at the RNC, Right? Like, it literally said it. He said, I'm going to declare the Alien Enemies Act, and I'm going to deport them immediately on day one.

17:53Like, it was always open season. There was no distinction, criminal or not. Maybe sometimes, but, like, it was pretty open. It's like, if you're illegal, you're going home. so I mean look I understand realpolitik and like you know you have to balance certain things but that's where I've seen some of the like come on guys like what are you talking about like in your pushback here against Trump you quite literally voted for this yeah that's reasonable but I wouldn't I didn't bring up immigration when I said these weren't the things I'm voting for that's where it's disingenuous I was specifically talking about Epstein foreign wars and the budget and then they go look at all this stuff with immigration That's not what you voted for.

18:32It's like, I'm not bringing that up. If I brought that up, then that would have been the context. Obviously, I think the bummer is that it's a bipartisan supported issue to get every criminal illegal alien out of here. I think when you start to get the divide is when you have people that have been working for your family for years. You see these hardworking people that are doing these businesses. Yes, they're here illegally. Yes, they came illegally, and they knew if they got caught, they'd be thrown back. That is the game. I get that. But it pulls the charge strings when you see a family being torn apart.

18:58or you see them running into a fucking Home Depot and these guys scatter. It like, as a human being, you have an emotional reaction to that. Okay. So I have a lot of empathy for that. And that's what I spoke to Trump about. I was like, guys, maybe there's a better way. I don't know how you go about doing it. I don't know how Holman does it. But if you at least bare minimum just started with anybody who had committed a crime, I think you would get a lot more support. Which is what he told us he would do. Well, I mean, look, again, though, I want to be fair to them. Alien Enemies Act was out there.

19:27Like they were like, this is what we're doing. Like Seacock and El Salvador, they're like, it was honest. No, I don't think that they, I don't think they were dishonest. But I also don't, I also don't think that like you have to agree with every single policy that a president has in order to vote for them. I totally agree. And I don't think that you are accountable for every single one. You could say, you could say, yes, you, you supported it because if you vote for that person, you did a hundred percent, but it doesn't mean you agree with it. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure there's a lot of people that voted for Obama that might not agree with drones striking a wedding.

19:58Are they responsible for those deaths? Is that the thing that they voted for? Like, did I kill those people? No, I wouldn't want that to happen, right? So I think there's a lot of things that governments do. I think the people that voted for, you know, different politicians in Flint, Michigan, they don't feel responsible for all those kids were poisoned by the lead pipes. But technically, they did vote for those politicians that allowed that to happen. And so this is one of those things where it's just like people are hurt. They're angry. And I think that they're trying to like place that blame for that pain and that anger they feel.

20:28And I get that. That's a human reaction. You're totally allowed to do it. But I'm just going to explain like my perspective. To your point, in 2008, didn't Obama say he was against gay marriage? So if you voted for Obama, it's your fault it didn't get passed. Are you a homophobe? He must be a homophobe if you voted for Obama. Well, the irony is he won more votes. And that's how he was able to become president by doing that. Oh, what? I'm just joking, Barry. We love you. All right. So the final one, which I think is a very interesting question, is around vibes. And so the biggest critique I have seen, and I'll be honest, I even fell victim to some of this, was you guys were voting on vibes, not on policy.

21:06Not you specifically. Yeah. But this contributed to the vibe-based election where you encouraged people or got people, everyone was in a headspace, where the vibe was that Kamala and Biden were awful and that Trump was awesome. So to the extent here that there is regret, was any of it, quote, vibes-based in retrospect? If you remove vibes, because I think vibes is a little bit belittling. It's ambiguous. It's hard to— No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's excitement. Yes. It was in the ether, right? I would say culture. Yeah. Like, there's a specific, like, they invited me to go to the inauguration, and I didn't go to the inauguration.

21:50Good move in retrospect. But in my opinion was like, if I go to the inauguration, I'm endorsing everything about you, right? I'm going there and celebrating this moment. It's like, no, no, you have some ideas that I would like to see implemented, and the second you don't implement those ideas, I'm on the ass. And if you do implement them, I'm going to praise you for implementing the ideas that I believe are good but I think when you start going to the events and you start dancing and that kind of shit then it makes it very difficult for you to hold that person to the fire which is what we're watching right now there's a lot of podcast guys who went to the inauguration and now it's all very tepid it's like oh well it's terrible and they have bad advisors and I'm like well it's not just the advisor hold the candle to that ass what was the question you were asking real quick?

22:36It was about vibes. And it was just a reflection on a vibes base. What I would say is that, like, I think a lot of people were voting on culture. And there might not be policy tied to culture. But, for example, like, one cultural issue I think was the identity politics stuff. I think that there was, like, an exhaustion by it. And it looked like the culture that Trump was ushering through was like, yo, we're not going to be obsessed with the word police and the identity politics. And everything is 40 different genders. And you've got to put the genders, your pronouns on your body. Like that cultural shift, I think, was very supportive.