7/29/25: Trump Denies Epstein Island Visit, Epstein 'Wonderful Secret' With Trump Revealed, Israel Bans Gaza Destruction Filming

24:06I think that's probably the best way. I'll steal that from Michael Tracy. He's had a lot of access. He is somebody who simultaneously is incredibly connected, knows the entire New York elite, written books about Rupert Murdoch, worked at Vanity Fair, one of the most, honestly, he kind of reminds me of Epstein. Like he's one of those people who's just everywhere at all times, seems to know everybody, had this incredible access to the first Trump administration. Still had sources inside the Trump administration. He wrote like four different books about Trump. Yeah, he wrote, I mean, the most famous book is Fire and Fury, where, you know, it came under a lot of journalistic scrutiny because he did basically admit to like making up a lot of quotes and everything was like deep background.

24:46It's very Bob Woodward-esque in terms of describing a scene based upon reassembling others but stating it as fact. So I have a lot of quibble about that. And, you know, you shouldn't 100 % take anything that the guy says to the bank. But I will also say he does know a lot, right? He knows a lot of these people. He knows all of Europe's society. And he spent a lot of time with Jeffrey Epstein. He spent a ton of time with Epstein, with Bannon, with, I mean, the entire White House. Listen, before he was persona non grata in the White House, it was like a joke amongst the White House press corps about how much access Michael Wolff had.

25:18He was rolling in and around the West Wing. He was just like hanging out in the White House every day. Just people understand, that's crazy. That never happens. I was there. I literally watched a lot of this happen. It was open, you know, in terms of the amount of access that Michael Wolff had. It was unprecedented. It was part of the original chaos, and he eventually writes the Fire and Fury book, makes millions of dollars, and it's a massive bestseller. But the point is, is that, yes, I understand he's a sketchy figure, so always take some of that with a grain of salt. But, of course, he does have his sources, and at least on this topic, you know, he spent a lot of time with these people.

25:49Here is what Michael Wolff says is the real falling out between – or is the real, quote, wonderful secret between Trump and Epstein laid out here. Let's take a listen. The birthday letter that Donald Trump apparently wrote for Jeffrey Epstein's 50th birthday and this idea that they shared a wonderful secret. What do you think he's referring to? I think that he is referring to the to the girlfriend that they shared at that point in time, 92, 93. So there was a woman, and as far as I know, she's not underage, but who they literally shared, who literally went back and forth between these two guys.

26:39And she went back and forth in the same bed with the two of them? Was it a threesome or she was dating both of them separately? I don't know the mechanics. I know that during the same period, they openly – this wasn't hidden from either one. They openly shared this particular woman that she was – went out with both of them at the same time. OK. So that is Wolf's explanation. I mean, honestly, it kind of makes sense because this is documented that they did have the same girlfriend, you know, basically around the same time right before he had before he started dating Melania Trump. It's literally right in that same time frame.

27:24Yeah. Also does sort of it does sort of fit with like the almost like romantic nature of that. Yes, I agree. You know, like if they're sharing a girlfriend, you are like sort of by proxy in this like weird romantic triangle with him. So it does kind of make sense. And, you know, he says there that this woman, as far as we know, is like of age. So it's not about her being underage. I don't know. Exactly. That's what he said. Young, but of age. But it also just seems like this is a close relationship between Trump and Epstein. This isn't someone that you see occasionally at a cocktail party. You know, you happen to be mixing in some of the same circles occasionally.

28:03No, this is your buddy. Like, that is as close a friendship as one can possibly imagine, I guess we could say. Yeah, I guess. I mean, I said this on the show yesterday. I mean, you know, I'm 33, you know, I've been around with my friends and all that stuff. If somebody ever asked me to write them a birthday letter, like, that's not what's going into birthday letters. And that's the part where I find it really creepy. So creepy. Okay, this is a side note. But I feel like once you get to a certain age, like, making a big deal over your own birthday. birthday is so narcissistic and weird. It's such a freaking red flag, too.

28:40It's so weird, right? I don't know. I'm very opposed to people over the age of, like, 21 making a big deal. I was going to say, 25 is my car. Yeah, they're going to give them 25. Because now you can run a car. It's over. You're officially an adult. Right. It's like, okay, time passed, another year. We're supposed to all celebrate you. Like, I don't know. Thank you. I'm with you. I've never understood it. It's like, you know, this weird birthday privilege. I feel like it's a rich person thing. Oh, I'm going to have a big party for my 50th birthday. It's like, I don't know. I actually, I'm not so sure about that.

29:09I've always thought that it's a way for people to quote, feel special, uh, in their lives, which is kind of sad, but this is a much deeper psychological conversation for birthday obsession in the West. And most of the rest of the, of the world, they were like, yeah, congrats, you know, happy birthday, whatever. Uh, all right. So let's get then to a, uh, video that we also wanted to underscore here about Ghislaine Maxwell. One of these women is, uh, Annie Farmer. She was interviewed by ABC News. We just want to underscore, you know, the role that Ghislaine Maxwell actually played in this entire scheme and kind of fits more broadly, you know, with all of this stuff around Trump and Epstein and about potentially if a pardon does happen, kind of what we are all obscuring here.

29:51Let's take a listen. She didn't just procure girls and women for Epstein, but she herself participated in their abuse. I think that's an important thing for people to understand. And so and then she also made threats. She made threats to my sister, to our family when it was clear that my sister had reported her. And so I think that to be told that suddenly she's being brought to the table as a potential source of information when she's previously been charged with perjury by the government is very confusing and unsettling. It's important, you know, to listen to her. By the way, I did receive a very long message from Michael Tracy yesterday about Ghislaine Maxwell and our accusation of rape.

30:35So, you know, listen, I'll give the guy his credit. Here's what he said. He says, Maxwell is not accused of rape in criminal trial, much less convicted of it. Two of the former claimed sexual activity with Epstein was not illegal per the very pronounced prosecution judge instructions to the jurors and even claimed the sexual acts in which Maxwell was alleged to have participated in no way rose to the level of anything that could be reasonably described. as rape. I guess what I think we were trying to say is that she participated, according to the victims here, in the actual scheme of which she was eventually then convicted.

31:08Well, and as Annie Farmer there, I mean, these two women, Annie and her older sister Maria, just their allegations are that Maria is a painter. She graduates from some school in New York where Jeffrey Epstein is a big benefactor. And in fact, she, at their final show, there's a big art show as part of the graduation. And buyers come in, and her painting sold. And then according to her, the head of the school comes over and is like, you're not selling to them. You're selling to this guy, Jeffrey Epstein, even though it was for a lower price. And then that is her entree to this world where they begin, oh, we're going to make your dreams come true.

31:46And we're going to fly you here. And we're going to support you in your work, et cetera. And then they fly her out to Lex Wexner's estate in Ohio, and that's where she alleges that both Jeffrey and Ghislaine molested her. She freaks out. She basically hides, runs away, hides, flies home, and then she is the first one to file a report with the police and ultimately the FBI. Her sister, and I can't remember exactly the timeline here, but at some point, Jeffrey and Ghislaine had said, oh, you have a younger sister? can we meet her can you bring her to dinner as well and that's annie and annie at the time i believe was like 16 and so they uh they have dinner with annie and then they do the same thing with her oh we're gonna make your dreams come true we're gonna fly you here we're gonna send you to this incredible school i believe in spain and you're gonna get to do all the things that you desire and then she also is um you know uh abused sexually abused i don't i'm not sure if she was abused both by Jeffrey and Ghislaine.

32:47But, you know, I know Maria Farmer claims that she was. So and there are other victims as well who have similar stories where the first time that they are molested by Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine is there involved also directly in the abuse. And we know, of course, that, you know, her whole thing was she would go and she would find these girls, often who came from troubled backgrounds, you know, already victims of abuse like Virginia Gouffre, or, you know, their family life was a mess. They were impoverished. They had all these sorts of vulnerabilities that she would then exploit. And she created this, you know, this conveyor belt of young underage girls for Jeffrey Epstein to abuse and exploit and potentially traffic.

33:37So that's, you know, that's what has been alleged against Ghislaine Maxwell. And I just think it's really important as this propaganda effort goes forward to paint her like she was some sort of a victim and like why is she even in prison if she, you know, if there are no other men that she was trafficking girls to, etc. Like this person deserves to be in prison. And in fact, the allegations that were made against her in court, Michael Tracy is correct that they didn't make a lot of these allegations against her in court. They just did enough to get a conviction and get her put away. And they did not actually air all of the different allegations.

34:15Not to mention, I'm sure over that number of years, some of this would be, of course, she said, she said and difficult to prove, et cetera. Almost 25, 30 years ago. So but in any case, that is he is true that they took this very narrow approach. But that is not in close to the entirety of the allegations which have been made against her that. And again, I think another thing to keep in mind when you are considering the credibility of these allegations, numerous multiple of these girls, now women, have told a very similar story about how they were brought in and how they were groomed by her and the way the abuse unfolded, which I think lends them credibility to their claims.

34:54I totally agree. I mean, it's obvious. And yeah, I mean, as this all goes forward, everyone needs to pay very, very, very close attention because look, you know, it almost again behooves me to lay out who is Ghislaine Maxwell, the daughter of Robert Maxwell, the known Mossad asset, one of the richest men in the world at that time, multi-billionaire in the UK, dies under suspicious circumstances, all of these insane connections to all of these sketchy arms deals across the world. including having associated with Epstein, with Donald Trump, with all the world's richest and most powerful. That's literally how they met, guys.

35:32Like she is, in my opinion, one of the major keys to the story. And so the fact, again, just to say that she was never interviewed by the Department of Justice until today about third-party individuals is patently crazy and backs up everybody who said in 2019 that that entire prosecution was a sham effort to try and actually was much more of a cover-up, limited hangout, since we're all using the Watergate parlance now and more today. And yeah, anybody who questioned this is more vindicated today than ever before. Yep. All right, let's get to Israel. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

36:13I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

36:59Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story.

37:35I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts See you between the pages.

38:36Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

39:10So we have a bunch of updates coming out of Israel from this administration and directly out of the Gaza Strip. So let's start with this. There's been a big Israeli Hasbara propaganda effort here and in Israel to deny that there is actually any starvation in the Gaza Strip. But apparently President Trump and J.D. Vance did not get that message, did not get that memo yesterday. Trump acknowledging that there is starvation that is unfolding. J.D. Vance doing the same. Let's take a look. President Trump said there's no starvation in Gaza. Do you agree with that? I don't know. I mean, based on television, I would say not particularly because those children look very hungry.

39:49So we have to get rid of those lines. But we're going to be getting some good, strong food. We can save a lot of people. I mean, some of those kids are that's real starvation stuff. I see it. And you can't fake that. You've got some really, really heartbreaking cases. You've got little kids who are clearly starving to death. Israel's got to do more to let that aid in. So he says, you can't fake that. The will be news to Charlie Kirk and others that we'll show you later on in the show. But lest you think that there's something heroic that's about to unfold here. Let's go and put this next element up on the screen.

40:25So within Israel, the idea that Netanyahu is going to let any aid into Gaza in order to appease what is now a widespread international outcry over these horrific images of the Israeli-enforced famine leading to babies literally starving to death. So there is a huge right-wing outcry over the idea that any aid would be let in. So what is Netanyahu doing to appease people like Ben Gavir and Smotrich, who have been very loud about their upset over this? and we played you some of that in the show yesterday. Well, he's going to propose to go ahead and annex parts of Gaza in an attempt, they say here in Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper, to appease far-right minister if Hamas does not agree to a deal.

41:06Let me read you a little bit of this because this also comes back to the U.S. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is expected to propose to the Political Security Cabinet a plan to annex areas in the Gaza Strip in an attempt to keep Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich in his government. And according to the plan, Israel will declare that it is giving Hamas a few days to agree to a ceasefire and if not, will begin annexing areas of the Strip. Of course, they're going to make it so that it's not any sort of a deal Hamas would ever agree to. The move will be presented to cabinet members following Netanyahu's decision to increase humanitarian aid entering the Strip, which was accepted despite opposition from the Religious Zionism Party.

41:40According to the plan, Netanyahu is expected to present areas in the buffer zone will be annexed first, followed by areas in the Northern Strip. The process will continue gradually, and according to details presented—let me finish that sentence, actually. The process will continue gradually until the entire Gaza Strip is annexed. Full ethnic cleansing, guys, and conquest here. According to details presented by Netanyahu and talks with ministers, the plan has received approval from the Trump administration. Now, of course, this should not come as any surprise since Trump himself floated the annexation and the, quote-unquote, cleansing of the Gaza Strip and the repopulation by, quote-unquote, world's people.

42:23So this is very much in line with Trump's plan for Gaza Lago that he put on the table. And now this is what the Bezalel Smotrich is being offered in exchange for allowing some amount of aid into the Gaza Strip, which, by the way, we have yet to see really actually reach the people who are starving there at this point. So let me go ahead and put these next images up on the screen. I'll get Sagar to react to all of this. This is the state of affairs. I mean, this is as aid convoys come in. They are just absolutely swarmed. There are also reports that the family-based, like, there are people who have been put in place to protect these trucks as they come in.

43:03So you don't have these scenes of desperate people just grabbing whatever they possibly can. There are reports from inside of the Gaza Strip that the IDF have been firing on those protection squads. So mayhem and chaos, I mean, society is breaking down there. People are starving to death and they have reached a point of utter and complete desperation, which is what you see, Sagar, in those sorts of clips. I mean, it's obviously horrific. And it also just gets to the question of what we continue to try to highlight here from inside of the Israeli government. Even the acknowledgement or – they didn't acknowledge starvation but at the very least they paused and allowed all of these humanitarian aid trucks or at least some humanitarian aid trucks to enter into the Strip has now caused such consternation that the only acceptable solution is to officially annex some 90 percent of the entire place and then to facilitate migration.

43:53Again, I'm not making this stuff up. They say it out loud. You have Ben Gavir and others who said it yesterday, you know, we should be sending shells, not food. They're outraged that they used the Sabbath against him, you know, to be able to circumvent this decision. And similarly, inside of the country, the way that they're keeping their political coalition together is to actually go in the most extreme direction. I will say at the – I don't – you know, it's just crumbs. But in Israel, this does seem to be some sort of political breaking point. Yair Lapid, who is the opposition leader, actually has said Netanyahu's plan for Gaza has completely failed and we need to have a ceasefire.

44:34So there is some element of the political coalition going – I don't want to understate it. They still support the war. They still broadly support annexation and all of that. They're more upset about the fact that the hostages are not being released. And the way that this is kind of being sold is the way that they will get the hostages is they will have full-on annexation, which will allow full occupation. It's kind of ridiculous because they already have full occupation. They've already raised the entire place to the ground. If they get them from military solution, then they would have done it already.

45:05That's not really the – this, again, look. Does anybody say that they've held back in Gaza by trying to get back? Come on. Like be serious. The whole place is horrible. Yeah, it's gone. Unbelievable. Do we have the video about how journalists are not allowed to even film the overhead? Yeah, we do. And before we play that, just to back up your point, Ben Gavir just said he called for a complete halt to humanitarian aid, complete occupation of the Strip, total annihilation of Hamas, encouragement of immigration, that's code for ethnic cleansing, and settlement. This is not the alternative path. This is the royal road to safely releasing the hostages and achieving victory in the war, Mr.

45:42Prime Minister, give the order. These are not fringe characters. These are some of the most influential people, frankly, in Israeli society at this point, as you can see from Yahoo's own decision making. To Sagar's point, yes, journalists, this is a report from Sky News, I believe, where they're saying, hey, the Israelis are telling us that as we're covering, they're dropping now. Some aid from the skies was done before injuring people and again, setting off this mad, chaotic scramble for people to get whatever scraps they possibly can. And journalists are being told who are covering the a-drops, you can't film from the air or they'll stop the a-drops because they don't want you to know how destroyed all of Gaza ultimately is.

46:22Let's go ahead and take a listen to that report. We were given quite a clear and strict pre-flight briefing that the Israelis have said we're not allowed to film any shots of Gaza from the air. And that if we do, these airdrop flights could either be canceled or delayed. International journalists haven't been allowed access to Gaza since the war started, despite immense pressure and growing demands. And it seems they don't want us to show you images of Gaza from the air either. I mean, this is classic. They will deny that there's starvation. They'll deny that the IDF is shooting starving Palestinians as they're going to try to collect aid from the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.

47:06They deny, deny, deny. But journalists are never actually allowed in to assess what is really going on. And even to the extent of going so far as to ban them from filming from the air so that people cannot see the extent of devastation. Of course, we all see it anyway because of the brave Palestinians on the ground who've been sharing with the world the images of this ongoing genocide. The starvation crisis is as dire as it could possibly be. The Havana Post talked to an American doctor who I think just returned from Gaza, or they may have spoken with them in Gaza. You can put this up on the screen.

47:44And what they're saying is that for some of these children, quote, they may have already passed the point of no return where their physiology has eroded to the point where even refeeding could potentially cause death itself. The gut lining has started to auto digest. It will no longer have adequate absorptive capacity for water or for nutrition. Death is unfortunately imminent for probably thousands of children. So we have already reached a point where some of these kids, even if they open the floodgates, which let's be clear, they have not done. But even if they open the floodgates and baby formula and food and nutrition and medicine and everything they need comes in, there will still be children who continue to die from starvation because of how far their bodies have been pushed to this point.

48:34And it takes a long time to get here. This is the level of engineered deprivation that we're talking about. And Adam Tooze wrote an important piece about, you know, you always get this accusation. Oh, well, why? There are starving people in other places in the world. Why are you only focused on the Gaza Strip? Like, is it because you're anti-Semitic is basically the allegation that comes along with this. And he said that it's true. There are horrifically many other places in the world, most of them in sub-Saharan Africa, where you have famines, where you have people who are starving, where you have horrific numbers of people.

49:07There are two things that are different. Number one is in all of those instances, the hunger and the famine is a result of a poly crisis, so a war, a civil war in Haiti, the complete breakdown of society, those sorts of things. In the Gaza Strip, it is completely man-made. There is plenty of food and resources there. It just needs to be allowed in. This is a 100 % engineered by us and by the Israelis famine, man-made. And that is, as you guys know, crime against humanity and also is considered an act of genocide. In addition, in those other places, if you look at the percent of people who are experiencing some level of hunger who are on the, you know, they have like ratings for the level of famine that they're at, somewhere around, you know, it'll be 49 percent or 60 percent.

49:54I mean, again, these are horrifying numbers. I'm not downplaying this whatsoever. In Gaza, it's 100 percent. It's 100 percent of people within the Gaza Strip who are suffering from some level of hunger. And there are varying levels of severity, you know, in terms of obviously the most vulnerable are going to be infants, people with various diseases and disorders. It's going to be children. It's going to be the elderly. But 100 percent of people within the Gaza Strip are suffering from some level of hunger, some level of famine. And that does not exist anywhere else in the world. and again speaks to the fact that this is an engineered, completely man-made famine that we're dealing with, which is why it has led to such incredible horror here and around the world, where even some of the worst actors you can imagine, like Barry Weiss, feel the need to say something about it, or Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama feel the need to say something about it.

50:47At the same time, we continue to get horrific reports of violence in the West Bank and really awful violent news here. Here we can put this up on the screen. So a well-known activist who was involved in the No Other Land, development of the No Other Land documentary, was murdered by this psycho that you see here. This violent Israeli settler who is known, who is, there's pictures of him hanging out with government ministers, by the way. And here he is just wildly firing a weapon. This is the kind of psycho this guy is. One of the few things that the Biden administration actually did to check any of the Israeli atrocities was to sanction a few settlers.

51:33This guy was one of them who was sanctioned. Not that it really made a difference, but at least there was some symbolic of like some, you know, symbol of like this isn't acceptable the way this guy operates. And the Trump administration removed those sanctions from him. And as I was saying before, I don't want to give anybody the impression that this is some rogue actor. These people are encouraged and backed by the state. This is part of official policy. And so, you know, Palestinian murdered here by this violent settler. And it's important, even though we focus a lot on Gaza, as understandably, that's where the greatest amount of horror ultimately is.

52:10We're going to have a guest on soon to talk about what's going on in the West Bank, because that's where you can really see the complete picture of what they're doing here, the level of violence that has escalated, the land seizures and theft that have escalated as well is all part of this, you know, greater Israel project and this ongoing, like, complete genocide. Well, it's not just West Bank because it's West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria. This is the, you know, I mean, look, it's a Bantu stop. Like, call it what it is. You have two-tier systems of justice, And it's pretty obvious there's no way in which they have any genuine security or system in through which they can pursue like any basic level of law and order.

52:48It's actually been that way for quite some time, but it's especially that way now in the last two years. Last part here, which is interesting. I'm curious what you think. Let's put it up there on the screen. The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights, Beth Selim, has said that there's, quote, genocide in Gaza being committed by Israel. You know, this is one where they're more, what, I guess I would say, you know, lagging because they are an Israeli organization in terms of their declaration compared to a lot of other people who have like similar sympathies. But it is nonetheless like demonstrates, you know, the extent to which I think the conversation has moved where you even have this human rights organization inside of Israel, which is saying this.

53:30And, of course, I'm actually very curious to see how the Israeli government handles this because, remember, they're calling that a blood libel. And this is an Israeli organization itself. Let's contextualize them. They've always been kind of on the extreme left of Israeli society. For Israel, yeah. Yeah, I'm saying for Israel. They've always been that way. People always say they're like, oh, there's some useful idiot or whatever. That's been the accusation I've seen thrown at them for quite some time. But it is significant nonetheless, at least in their own society. And also, again, the real question is how the government's going to handle this and what they're going to pull up.

54:05Yeah, I mean, they're incredibly late to this, obviously. It's B'Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights, both of which are significant Israeli human rights organizations. It reminds me of B'Tselem not that long ago, finally issued a report. This is a few years back at this point. I think we covered it here about saying, OK, yes, Israel is an apartheid society. It's accurate to say that. And again, they were late to that, but it was given added significance because they are an Israeli organization. And I saw, you know, the New York Times covering this, et cetera. But I think it's like the consensus is clear at this point.

54:41You have B'Tselem, you've got Physicians for Human Rights. They join Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, Human Rights Watch, over 800 scholars of genocide. At least you had an Israeli scholar writing in the New York Times, Dr. Omer Bartov saying, hey, yes, I'm a genocide scholar. I know it when I see it. You just can't. There are very few voices on the other side. There is a basically a global consensus at this point. What's going on? And Sagar, I don't know if you saw actually Marjorie Taylor Greene. I saw. Said for the first time, this is a genocide. So, you know, her getting ahead of the vast majority of Democrats, including, by the way, Bernie Sanders, in calling this for what it is.

55:19But I think it's significant. Like I said, It's hard for me to really understand what took so long. I read through their report yesterday, and it's quite well documented. They go through many of the same path and trajectory that the original ICJ filing from South Africa went through. Here's the historic context. Palestinians are a demographic threat to a quote-unquote Jewish state. And so it's not just Hamas that's their enemy. It's every Palestinian that threatens a Jewish majority. And that creates a logic and a context under which this genocide has unfolded. then you've got all of the many statements.

55:56I mean, I've long ago lost track of all of the genocidal dehumanizing statements about Palestinians and the media and propaganda efforts that unfold within Israeli society to make it OK and make it seem like, you know, Palestinians are not a people, that they're not human, that they are, you know, an existential, even the infant babies who are being starved to death are some sort of an existential threat to Israeli society. And then, of course, they also cover the acts themselves, the starvation, the forced displacement of every single Palestinian has been displaced at this point within the Gaza Strip, the forced displacement, the mass starvation, the indiscriminate bombing, the destruction of all just sort of like culture and life, you know, any arts institutions, any universities, any schools, the farmland, the greenhouses, et cetera.

56:44And when you look at all of that, I think it's impossible not to conclude if you're being honest at this point that this is in fact a genocide. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

57:35They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about What's taken from them? There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

58:12I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

58:46Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us.

59:27Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, should we get to Charlie? Let's talk about it. So I mentioned earlier that there is this propaganda effort. you referenced it on the show yesterday, to deny that any starvation is actually happening in the Gaza Strip, that this is all just, you know, some media propaganda.

1:00:11I love how they imagine that the media is on the side of the Palestinians, which is so, like, utterly reposterous. Oh, the Israelis actually really believe it. Yeah, I know they do. It's insane. Like, the number of former IDF that work at these outlets is like, okay, you guys are, like, completely out to lunch. But in any case, Charlie Kirk went right along with this and invited this guy on to spin this utterly false narrative about how, of course, there's no hunger in the Gaza Strip and these are all lies that are being fed to you. Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of that. I hate being lied to and I hate being propagandized.

1:00:45And this weekend, there was an all-out propaganda campaign trying to make it seem as if Israel is intentionally starving the people of Gaza. I'm not going to get into the weeds of the numbers, but the quantities of food that have been brought into the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war and month over month is enough to feed the Gaza Strip according to the World Food Program's numbers for what it takes to feed people for longer than this war has gone on, for about 27 months worth of food. And there's plenty of food getting into the Gaza Strip. This is pure visual warfare. Puget 309. This is all this is.

1:01:24This is propaganda, emotional, visual, optical warfare, optical warfare. And so no one likes to see what you're looking at here. Looks like a kid who's starving to death, right? So the whole story says this. The story says young, old, and sick starved to death in Gaza. That is the front page of the New York Times. And so the picture they're using is of Muhammad al-Matawak, a child with a muscular disorder, and they're using that as the face of famine in Gaza. So is the UN intentionally allowing the kids of Gaza to starve? What is going on here? When you talk about the UN in Gaza, you're not talking about the people sitting in the United Nations in New York.

1:02:09The UN in Gaza is Hamas. The UN is Hamas. And he makes all the fully debunked claims about, oh, Hamas is stealing all the aid. And that's why we had to use the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, which Israeli military officials told The New York Times is not true. There has never been any evidence of this whatsoever. In fact, what there has been evidence of is Israeli-backed thugs who have been stealing aid. There's evidence of that. There is no evidence that Hamas has been consistently in any way stealing this aid. But that's their excuse. And we also know that Israel buried 1 ,000 trucks. This was reported on Israeli news channel we covered yesterday, buried a thousand trucks of aid.

1:02:51And you can see, I mean, it's just like they think you're so stupid. They think you can't hit translate from Hebrew. They are out there. Ben Kavir and Smotrich are out there furious that any aid is getting in whatsoever. And lo and behold, when Netanyahu snaps his fingers, oh, suddenly some aid can get in. So, oh, but it was the UN that was the problem. Give me a break. Like, it's just such utter and complete bullshit. In fact, when the U.N. did come in to try to deliver some aid, they were shot at by the IDF. So it's disgusting. I mean, and we all know. Remember Jose Andres in the World Central Kitchen?

1:03:24Of course. Yeah. And we all know, too, that people are being massacred when they do go and try to get aid from these four or five distribution centers that the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation has set up. This Green Beret whistleblower, he told the story of how he became so disgusted and disillusioned. he decided to speak out. He, a young child, a young Palestinian child, kissed his hands because he was so grateful for whatever food he'd been able to get at this distribution. And then as he walked away, the Israelis shot and killed him. That's what we're talking about here. And these monsters have the gall to come on and say, oh, well, if it's a kid who has muscular dystrophy, he doesn't really count as starving to death, as if those people don't also matter.

1:04:10And obviously, the people who are going to be the most vulnerable are going to be children who have, you know, other complicating conditions. There's no doubt about that. But we're, you know, the numbers are at least 147 people have now died from starvation. And the majority of those are children. Look, Charlie recently had me on. I, you know, he has occasionally, I think, some decent ideas and other things. At the very least, he let me express my, you know, criticism of Israel. So I appreciate that. But I do think what everybody is watching here is kind of the dichotomy of conservative politics, specifically when money is involved.

1:04:43So here we have Turning Point USA. I don't think it's a secret and I'm giving anything away to say that there are a lot of, you know, very pro-Israeli people who have donated to the organization. And Charlie himself is not somebody like us. He's not a media figure. He can't say what he wants. He's a political actor. He's operating in the Republican coalition. And these are the types of things that are occasionally, I'm not going to say they're demanded. I don't think anybody controlled him, but they obviously felt the need to have to have somebody on here. And let's kind of break it down. Who is this person?

1:05:15He's a columnist at the Jerusalem Post. So it's like, do we have maybe any incentive to be saying the types of things here in Israeli rabbi who lives in his or who writes for the Jerusalem Post? Instead, you could actually look at the Rupert Murdoch-owned Wall Street Journal, as Trump and all have been reminding us. And they have a graphic out this morning, which shows the exact food delivery and the fraction through which it has fallen now under. A lot of the data and stuff that they're citing about amount of food and necessary is actually before the complete blockade that happened recently, which started in March.

1:05:50So this is where facts and all of these things matter. But I actually think a big reason why this is all happening is to prevent the Marjorie Taylor Greene's and a lot of other younger Republicans from basically coming out full on against Israel. And this really was showed off, I think, in Charlie's focus group, which he held recently in his TPUSA conference where he was asking young TP – so remember, this is a different breed. These are not just young Republicans. These are like young – Activists. Like activists in TPUSA. That's a special type of – by the way, that's a special type of any young person who's an activist or whatever, right?

1:06:26So like the highest engaged political person of any type of political organization. Well, here he sat down with them and asked them about Israel and also kind of the first thing that you think of when you hear the country's name. Let's take a listen. And if you seek to actually understand what Gen Z thinks about Israel, not these anonymous TikTok comments or not what you see on X. These are real people. They're real conservatives, many of which are real Christians. And they'll tell you exact what they think about the hottest issue happening, I guess, on the planet that we're talking about. What's the first word that comes to mind when you hear Israel?

1:07:01Judaism. Aid. Aid. Netanyahu. Tax dollars. Liability. Sacred. Tax dollars. Conflict. Complex. Controversial. Scary. Strategic. Mossad. So Mossad, of all the different things that would come to mind, why does their intelligence service come to mind? Reminds me of the CIA. You know, it has the CIA, you have the CIA involved with RFK. I mean, there's rumors going around, maybe Mossad was a part of the Epstein files, maybe Maybe Mossad was a part of things that we don't know about. And they're just like the Central Intelligence Agency. They are out there doing things that none of us know about. So to say Mossad first, that would basically imply your first impression is one of doubt.

1:07:43Is that fair to say? Yes. Okay. When you hear like Epstein, right, do you connect the Epstein issue initial, like immediate, like first connection in your mind, that's also connected to Mossad and Israel? Or are they, they feel separate in your mind? I think there's a growing consensus that there's a connection there among Gen Z. Yeah, I think that's definitely gaining velocity. So keep in mind, that was filmed a couple of weeks, like a week or two ago, right? Yeah. This was when the Tucker thing, and they still, what was the number one kind of thing you heard there? Aid, Mossad, liability. Interesting.

1:08:16Yeah, and I don't think they mean aid in a positive way. I was going to say, they're not talking about aid in a way that you may want, you know, not in the rabbi, whatever that guy's name is. It's in the way that we're talking about here. So clearly this is penetrating the propaganda, the spooky propaganda is getting through. And actually that really, I think came through in this next one. Let's take a listen. Who used the word aid? You did. Why did that come to mind first? It's very similar to our support for Ukraine. We're sending a lot of money over there, not really getting, in my opinion, a huge return on investment.

1:08:52And so that's like the first thing that comes to mind because when people talk about their distrust or dissupport for Israel, that's the first thing that usually comes up is all the money that we're sending them. I think we have a lot bigger issues at home. I think we should be spending most of our tax dollars on securing our border, keeping our home people safe. When you talk about return on investment, I think that's an interesting way to frame it. The supporters of Israel will say they're doing a lot of America's dirty work from intelligence gathering, things like that. within the Middle East.

1:09:22Is that compelling to you? Are you persuaded by that argument? The reason why I'm not super persuaded is especially, it's mostly because of here recently, we were kind of drug into it. We were negotiating, we were having negotiations, and then they struck, they killed the people we were negotiating with, and it kind of derailed everything and sped up the conflict a little bit. It was the State Department's stated goal that we were working on negotiations with Iran. You can say they wouldn't have panned out. You can say that maybe they were imminently about to collapse, but we were still in active negotiation.

1:09:59And yet Israel launches Operation Rising Lion to go in and strike Iran while we are mid-negotiation. How many of you guys would say you think Israel got us into that conflict? You would say yes. You would not say so much? I think we were willing to join that conflict. I don't think we were pulled in unwittingly as if we were dragged by a leash, you know, in more uncertain terms. I think we have the authority and the say of whether or not we want to be involved in that conflict. And I think we saw the prosperity that we would unleash if we joined the conflict. The amount over since 1948, it amounts to$319 billion adjusted to inflation.

1:10:38And I'd say that I can think of multiple things that we could have spent at home that would have been a better allocation of our taxpayer dollars. And I feel like this money could have been well spent in supporting an economy that would support our generation being able to afford homes rather than military strikes for Israel. So there you go. Shout out to that dude for knowing that number. Yeah. I actually didn't even know the inflation. Yeah. How many members of Congress do you think who are voting for that money know that number? I would have to chat TPT to get an inflation adjusted number. That's insane.

1:11:07390 billion adjusted for inflation. That's outrageous, actually. That's almost exactly what was spent on the Afghanistan war over 20 years, just to put it into context. This is Israel's greatest nightmare. I mean, these people are the reason why Netanyahu was like, let me go on with Rokin or the Milk Boys or do something here because they see they have an issue. Because previously, if you said, like back when I was running for Congress in 2010, if you talk to a Republican about like foreign aid, they're thinking about like some, you know, liberal do-gooder like in, you know, in Africa feeding starving children or whatever.

1:11:38Now they're thinking about that, sure. But they're thinking like, why are we giving all this money to these people? Whereas previously they sort of got a pass of like the Charlie's assistant there, whoever that guy is. No disrespect. I just genuinely don't know who he is. He says the Israeli line of like, well, they would say we're doing your dirty work. So this is a great this is a great return on investment. Like you're getting all this peace and security from the only democracy in the Middle East on the cheap. And consensus among all of these young conservative activists is like, no, we actually we don't think that that value proposition works out whatsoever.

1:12:13And the Christian part is key as well. Only one of them said sacred. So you can see that that boomer evangelism, that Ted Cruz, only one of them there is like sacred land. And we have to support the country of Israel because the Bible commands us to. That's not what I'm hearing from the rest of these people. And that actually fits with the APAC line in particular, which is the next part here about APAC and kind of its special treatment. Let's take a listen there. The entirety of the idea of a PAC is to represent a group. But the fact that we're having we're allowing a group that doesn't even represent American interests to influence the people who are supposed to be representing us, I have a huge problem with.

1:12:50But when you hear that lots of other countries also are lobbying, do you think, I mean, you probably don't know the names of those countries, but it's happening. Does that upset you equally or is AIPAC just get all the press because it's so top of mind? If those other ones are doing the same thing, of course. Yeah, see, and that's, look, no offense again to that guy, but there's a little bit of a struggle session element to this. Oh, absolutely. Him and Charlie both. And I sympathize. I get where the – listen, the amount of – I mean people need to understand the pressure that they're putting on these types of people is unbelievable.

1:13:29Like it's not just money. It's blowing up your phone, your whole social circle. Their nightmare is even having this being aired just so people understand. Like the fact that this, you know, in my opinion, like pretty mild criticism of Israel and military action even gets airtime or that Tucker gets to question dual citizenship or whatever on the state. You got to understand the level of freakout and pressure that happened. I mean I'm sure you saw Laura Loomer and others being like any Jewish person who donated to Charlie needs to rescind their – you know. I mean this is a genuine existential threat.

1:14:03It's also a view into kind of how the machine works. And so that's what people need. That's why I think that clip paired with this, this all makes a lot of sense in terms of the level of pressure right now that's happening. I mean, I'm sure you also saw Ross Dowd that at the New York Times, you wrote that piece, How Israel's War Became Un - I mean, that's a freak out over that within the right is crazy. Even right now over at National Review, the level of attacks that are coming to anybody who has questioned open support for Israel against like my friends over at the American Conservative, which are a restraint-based organization.

1:14:39Same thing. Anti-Semitism, blood libel. Tucker, the front page of National Review magazine is an entire article where yours truly is also quoted and named about Tucker's dark turn against Jews and anti-Semitism. Like just so people understand like what – Listen, I mean, I don't care anymore, but like that has currency in this town, just so people understand. It will make you unemployable and unworkable in a lot of environments, you know, uninvitable to many different things. That's what's happening. And that's just leading to this, you know, and not to mention actually really getting down. Yeah.

1:15:14Well, and that's why it's important that we understand what like actual independent media is, you know, that there aren't some random billionaires with various ideological interests that you're like existentially dependent on. In order to continue like making content or doing your activism or whatever it is, those things really matter. Because, you know, Charlie is like, if you watch through this focus group, like he is sort of tortured. You know, he goes a lot, like does a lot and has his guy there to like sort of toe the Israeli line. Like, yeah, but it's a good return on investment and only democracy.

1:15:46And to make sure that it stays within a bounds that's not going to completely nuke his enterprise. there is one last clip we can show you from this having to do with anti-Semitism let's go ahead and take a listen to that there is a rise of Jew hate but it's not the majority mover I think the majority mover of Gen Z and Gen Z conservatives is exhaustion precisely would you guys think that's a fair categorization I mean again there is like an isolated like weirdo I hate Jews we don't like that no one in decent society wants that but instead it's kind of like can we just I don't know make it so I can buy a home or like deport people?

1:16:24Yeah. Is that, does that resonate with you? Exactly. You're not anti-Israel. You don't wish them harm. You're not, you know, like cheering on Iran. No, I support Israel. I think they're our ally. I want them. But you would be called an anti-Semite by some people for saying this. And I think that's ridiculous. I don't hate Jews because I think a nation should defend themselves. Exactly. Like I think that's the most ridiculous thing ever. I feel like it's becoming like the word racism. Like we just disagree with them. So we just have to call them a name. I don't think they're actually anti-Semitic.

1:16:56I think people just can't agree with them and they can't prove them wrong. So they just throw a word out and be like, you're anti-Semitic for because you think that we should stop sending our money there. Preach, brother. Preach. He's exactly right. There's actually nothing woker than anti-Semitism, the anti-Semitism industrial complex. All of the hallmarks of anti-racism have been dialed up to 100 for anti-Semitism under our government. I may have said this before. The current anti-Semitism task force by the Trump administration is as close the government has ever come to the Department of Anti-Racism proposed in Ibrahim Kendi's book, which obviously I oppose.

1:17:35But, you know, obviously we don't have the same level of opposition. You know, Ron DeSantis has got affirmative action with state resources for Jews down in Florida. That's fucking nuts. OK. R.F.K. Jr.'s HHS. Yeah, no, literally. Is pursuing the anti-Semitism. I mean, going to the attacks on the universities, the snatching up of college students, the government censorship. It's just like – it is crazy. Look, I hate the universities, OK? Everybody knows. Can we all accept that? I hate Harvard. All of these. I think there's actual leeches on the US government, on our society. I think they're bad.

1:18:08Not because of their Middle Eastern Studies Department. And that is the current way that they are – what they're currently – the current shakedown on Columbia was you have to pay us$200 million and then we get to install a standards department over specifically your Middle Eastern studies department. What? This is not even a free speech thing. They're putting a bias monitor in at CBS. All right. You know, and it's too much. It's all just too much. Yeah. All right. And, you know, that's where we are. That's currently where we are right now with the right. I hope people wake up, you know, Steve Bannon and a few other, they're fighting, but I'm skeptical.

1:18:47He's got a good quote. I'll read it to you after we get off the show.

1:19:03I survived nine months in captivity. and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

1:19:48Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you hear the new episode of the Hey Jonas podcast? We are at D23, so we'll see who stops by. The cast of Frozen stopped by. Kristen Bell, Josh Gad, and Idina Menzel. I auditioned for Frozen. What? For Kristoff. They said, okay, what are you going to be singing today? I said, I don't know. That must have been why you didn't get it.

1:20:21Oh, you probably won. Plus, John Stamos, Hayden Christensen from Star Wars, and more. And I guess I can share that, uh... No way. Listen to the latest episode of Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.