8/11/26: China Shuts Down Billionaire, FP Defends Flock, Hidden AI Bailout

11 Aug 2026 · 40 min · 15 chapters

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In short

China’s crackdown on offshore wealth channels (using Futu as the example), a critique of Free Press defending Flock AI/plate-surveillance cameras, and an “AI bailout” theory involving private-credit-backed life insurers. It also includes allegations of crypto-linked political corruption and a sketchy Albania property deal.

Guests and backgrounds

Sagar and Crystal (Breaking Points hosts) discuss China and Flock. David Dayen, journalist at The American Prospect, explains the AI bailout mechanism.

Key claims

China shut down Futu’s unlicensed mainland brokerage and offshore tax/wealth flows to preserve state sovereignty. Free Press’s defense of Flock is portrayed as dishonest because of false positives, lack of independent audits, and misuse/stalking risks. Dayen argues private credit feeding life insurers could trigger state taxpayer backstops via post-insolvency assessments with tax credits.

Notable examples

Futu’s $271M penalty; LAPD 32.3% false-positive alerts; Brookfield/Waukesha wrong-car stop tied to a Milwaukee homicide; West Virginia Flock vandal arrest; Trump-linked $100M crypto buyer; Kushner-linked Albania land tied to alleged money launderer Artur Shehu; NVIDIA-linked $500B AI financing.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

Tap a time to open that second in VO

China's Crackdown on Billionaires

1:07 to 1:26

Discussion on China's regulatory actions against billionaire Li and Futu Holdings.

“Who do you call home serve is an easy way to handle unexpected home repairs with plans covering stuff.”

China's Crackdown on Billionaires

2:09 to 6:28

Discussion on China's regulatory actions against billionaire Li and Futu Holdings.

“So in China, the headline that The Wall Street Journal writes is, This billionaire becomes China's Charles Schwab.”

Chinese Investment Strategies

6:28 to 8:04

Exploration of China's policies on investment and technology education.

“Entire billionaire class would never happen here because of our own democratic failures and the way that oligarchy, the oligarchy has been allowed to buy our political system and money has been equated with speech.”

Sovereignty and Economic Control

8:04 to 8:51

Analysis of China's focus on sovereignty in economic dealings.

“And that's why China, on almost every technological frontier development, is leading us.”

Trump's Financial Deals and Crypto

8:51 to 13:00

Insights into Trump's financial dealings and the implications of crypto.

“It will be under a domestically licensed platform.”

Kushner's Albanian Property Deal

13:00 to 14:01

Discussion of Jared Kushner's controversial property dealings in Albania.

“Amazing doing business with you and keeping it moving right along.”

Corruption in Albanian Real Estate Deals

14:01 to 16:22

Learn about the questionable dealings surrounding Kushner's property investments in Albania.

“and discovered, like they're Christopher Columbus, this island, Albanian island, that, oh my God, it would make Ivanka's dreams come true to develop into some sort of luxury property.”

Corruption in Albanian Real Estate Deals

16:49 to 17:13

Learn about the questionable dealings surrounding Kushner's property investments in Albania.

“And they have a bunch of GE options in stock.”

The Debate Over Flock Safety Cameras

18:14 to 23:13

Explore the concerns surrounding Flock safety cameras and their impact on privacy.

“One of them being Barry Weiss's Free Press.”

Community Reactions to Surveillance Technology

23:13 to 28:01

Investigate community responses to surveillance technology and calls for accountability.

“Tell that to the woman who was stalked by her abusive ex, whose child was also stalked by the abusive ex, whose future partner is also stalked by.”
Show all 15 chapters

Surveillance and Local Communities

28:01 to 29:31

Discussion on the backlash of flock cameras in local communities and the need for democratic processes in surveillance decisions.

“when I was researching this story, every single location, I'm talking about Wyoming, flock cameras, Chicago, flock camera, Texas, flock camera.”

The AI Bailout Mechanism

31:10 to 37:53

Analysis of potential risks in AI investments and the implications for taxpayers through life insurance insolvency.

“including whether or not this entire build-out is a massive bubble that may end up with taxpayers funding the largest bailout in history.”

Risks in Private Credit Financing

37:53 to 42:04

Exploration of the private credit market's role in financing AI and potential risks associated with it.

“Private credit is essentially the credit arm of private equity.”

Exploring Financial Crisis Parallels

42:04 to 43:58

Learn about the risks and complexities of insurance bailouts in financial crises.

“In 2008, AIG was a major insurance company, and it went basically insolvent.”

Exploring Financial Crisis Parallels

44:49 to 45:23

Learn about the risks and complexities of insurance bailouts in financial crises.

“Ugh, Han, the ice cream has turned to soup.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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1:35Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, Become a member today and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com.

2:08Turning now to China, this story absolutely captivated me and is really making me think a lot about their system versus ours. Let's put it up here on the screen, C1. So in China, the headline that The Wall Street Journal writes is, This billionaire becomes China's Charles Schwab. Quote, then Beijing cracked down. Leaf Li Futu brokerage has become a central target in the government's campaign to control the flow of Chinese money offshore. So Leaf Li said his inspiration came from Charles Schwab. Within a decade, he built a company that spanned all of China, Hong Kong, Asian markets, and the U.S.

2:43Like his American idol, Li pivoted from simple trading to managing clients' wealth through mutual funds and advisory services. Now, Li's ambition is colliding with Chinese authority. His company, Futu Holdings, has become a central target in the state's crackdown on the flow of Chinese money offshore. Authorities in May handed the NASDAQ-listed FUTU a$271 million penalty for offering brokerage services and mutual funds to customers in mainland China without a license, and that action included a personal fine for Li. The news obviously sent their share price down 30 % in a single day and now has a market cap of less than$15 billion.

3:24But the quote, the fall in the share prices knocked hundreds of millions of dollars off of Li's net worth, which is now at roughly 5.7. What they point to, though, generally, is that this regulatory action against this company is a way for the previously China's tech elite, as they explained, were able to list their companies in Hong Kong and then mint fortunes offshore beyond the reach of Chinese authorities. What this does is they have completely shut that down, any foreign flight of capital. And they said that they will continue to tax offshore trusts previously, which is a very popular tool for a lot of these Chinese investors.

4:01But the reason why that they went after this company specifically and like kind of the story of this entire takedown is that Chinese authorities at the end of the day are like, no, you do not get to offer securities and tax advantages to a bunch of our rich people without suffering the consequences and operating under a license. And so, you know, before that, this guy was like a global celebrity. And the Wall Street Journal takedown really of this is like this is the story of there's a lot of Chinese billionaires which basically were inspired to recreate many of the rapacious capitalist industries of the United States.

4:39Literally, the guy says Charles Schwab was my idol, right? They did the same with Google. They did the same with Uber. I think it's called Didi over there. Like, you know, basically because China would ban our services, they would just recreate them. But what the Chinese state saw is that those fundamentally were threats to the power of the state. And so while they let them grow and initially they were happy with a lot of their wealth accumulation, they eventually come to see the Jack Ma's and Alibaba's and this Futu and all of these other billionaires as tools of like a globalist class, which are fundamentally loyal to capital and to the rest of the world than to the state.

5:19And so what they've done is they've come in and cracked down dramatically and sent a message to their entire billionaire class. It's like, you work for us. And whatever we tell you to do, when we tell you to jump, you're going to say, how high? I mean, you know, it's complicated. Like, you know, we want freedom, et cetera. But like, how can you not admire? Like the system where you've got these filthy rich people. All they're doing is just helping, you know, like this company, it seems like a big part of their sell was just like, hey, if you're rich, let me get your money off into a tax haven.

5:51And they came, they're like, oh, that's not happening at all. And they just shut it down completely. Yeah. And they all snap into line. Like, that's about preserving the primacy of the state. Now, obviously, there's an undemocratic state. But the tool and the mechanism of that is something which you can't help but admire the seriousness which they take their endeavor of sovereignty. They're like, we run shit. The government is a person ultimately that you will be accountable to. You do not get to create these private nexies of wealth, which ultimately will challenge our authority. And like, that's how it should be, in my opinion.

6:24You can't help but admire the lack of corruption that this indicates. Because you could not imagine a service that not only was run by a powerful, very wealthy person, but then is servicing all of the powerful, wealthy Americans that our government would come in and say, oh, no, you can't do that. We're shutting this all down. Sorry. Entire billionaire class would never happen here because of our own democratic failures and the way that oligarchy, the oligarchy has been allowed to buy our political system and money has been equated with speech. So you look at that, you're like, wow, that's possible for you.

6:59That is wild, regardless of whether you think it's the right policy or not. But to your point, it's not just that they were moving their money into tax havens. It's also that they were investing their money in other global companies outside of China. So, you know, they were buying stocks in American AI companies. A lot of this was heavily invested in, you know, the AI American stock boom. And so this is also, no, you can invest. You can invest in Chinese companies here at home. That's what you are allowed to do. And we're going to actually enforce it and make sure that that is the case. They've also instituted policies, not just in this regard, but to make sure that their top graduates are not, by and large, going into Wall Street-type financial engineering, that they are much more focused on STEM and technology.

7:43And as a result, the number of engineers that they graduate every year vastly exceeds. I mean, it's not even close. It's multiples of times more than what we graduate here in the United States. And then that also has led to, OK, now you've got the best and the brightest minds not going in to create some new exotic derivative that basically crashes the economy and exploits poor people. They're going to develop technology. And that's why China, on almost every technological frontier development, is leading us. I was just saying in humanoid robotics, they have like 98 percent of the market. Like we're not even competing there.

8:17The only thing we focus on is AI, where our frontier labs are a little bit, a little bit ahead of them. But even that, you ask, how long is that going to be the case? There's nothing that says that we're going to maintain that lead forever. So it's just a completely different orientation and priorities of their political systems. The crackdown is meant to funnel Chinese individual investors into licensed platforms where the people can trade only on China's domestic stock exchanges. Citizens are also permitted to invest overseas, but mainly through government-approved methods that return any profits in yuan.

8:50So they're like, look, sure, you can invest abroad. It will be under a domestically licensed platform. The profit has to be delivered in one because we don't want currency problems. Again, like what they're focused on principally is sovereignty. At the end of the day, like that's what our biggest problem is here. Like if we have the biggest tension, and we've always had this, is between the capital billionaire globalist class, which cares much more about making money than about their own citizens. That has always been our dance with democracy and with capitalism. Part of what we've seen over the last 25 years is many of these people believe of themselves as transnational entities of which their only job is to preserve shareholder value.

9:32And they don't give two shits about the American worker. And the only person that that American worker can look to is their government to make sure that those people are kept in check and to make sure that some of this extraordinary profit will also have ancillary benefit to the median American beyond your 401k going up when 50 % of the country doesn't have 401k. Compare it then to our system, which kind of looks like the old Chinese system. Let's put C2 up here on the screen. Here's Trump. This is the latest story from Trump.

10:31Quote, two years earlier, apparently, quote, was a failed hardwood flooring retailer in Britain who had come under investigation for money laundering and presided over the collapse of a small crypto startup. Out of nowhere, he became one of the biggest buyers of tokens from World Liberty Financial, dropping a total of$100 million to a firm called Aqua One, kept it quiet for months other than briefly speaking as Mr. Bobby on an audio stream on X. However, as they dig into, the curious case of Zhao illustrates the ease with which buyers from unknown backgrounds' motivations can use the anonymity of crypto to shower Mr.

11:11Trump with money. The president's recent financial disclosure form shows he collected$1.4 billion from crypto businesses last year, the majority of it from anonymous sources. it is not even clear how closely they scrutinized his past and a money laundering investigation in England with publicly available information as were portions of Zhao's troubled business history were public record at the time that they decided to accept his money. Now, look, to be clear, like he did give the money. He did not respond to a request for comment. We don't know about pay for play. I'm not really sure why anybody gives somebody$100 million as the president of the United States for no reason, just my opinion, whenever it comes to businesses.

11:55I just saw today, you know how Trump's company is selling the$100 ,000 a month for first access to his true social market moving posts? They have 10 customers already. So 10 times 100 ,000 a month, that's a healthy little profit line that you've created there purely off of your own information and tool of power in the state. Like this is what China was like in the 1990s. And it's like we've seen a reverse of what that system is looking like. And this dude, no one knows where this money came from. He had left a rap sheet of failed businesses, was basically deported from the UK because his visa had expired.

12:37And then he had this sort of money laundering allegations hanging over his head. And they were like, no, you got to go. He turns back up in Dubai and suddenly out of nowhere. And we have no idea where the money comes from is flush with this hundred million dollars to give to World Liberty Financial. And of course, Trump and the sons and the Whitcoffs are also involved in this. They don't they don't ask a single question. This thank you for the money, sir. Amazing doing business with you and keeping it moving right along. And as the public, we have no idea what this man expects to get from that$100 million or whoever he is representing, whoever he is the front person for.

13:15We have no idea what strings this money is coming with. And this is just another day under the Trump regime. This sort of story, you could literally tell this story every day of the week of some utterly shameless level, corrupt, skeezy deal. And much of it has to do with crypto. in terms of the massive amount of increase in wealth, the billions that he has been able to accumulate just since coming back into power in Trump 2.0. So very extraordinary. There's another story we wanted to highlight here, which is wild. So we covered before. Dear to our hearts. Jared Kushner and Ivanka were on the yacht.

13:57You can't even tell this story without just sounding anti-Semitic. On a Rothschild yacht and discovered, like they're Christopher Columbus, this island, Albanian island, that, oh my God, it would make Ivanka's dreams come true to develop into some sort of luxury property. And she's talking about this thing we played the video before. Well, the people of Albania were like, no, this is our island. We don't want you there. And as part of this island deal, they are also buying property on this nearby peninsula. And now we're finding out more about the incredibly sketchy, to say the least, characters who are involved in this transaction that Kushner, quote unquote, bought this land from.

14:41Put this up in the screen from the Wall Street Journal. Okay, the suspected gangster causing headaches for Kushner's Albania deal. I won't go through all of the ins and outs here, but the TLDR is this dude, Artur Shehu, is accused of not only being a money launderer, not only of having forged fake documents to claim that he owns this peninsula land that the locals say he does not actually own, and this is apparently a common problem, by the way, in Albania. He also is an accused drug trafficker and human smuggler. That's who Kushner is, quote-unquote, buying this Albanian property for. So just the sketchiest, most corrupt dealings you can possibly imagine, whether it's here, whether it's in the Middle East, whether it's through crypto, whether it's through Trump and the pardon, the pardon for sale shop that he has set up in his second administration.

15:37The list goes on and on. But no surprise that you've got this kind of incredibly sketchy gangster who is deeply enmeshed in this Albanian situation. As you said, my favorite part of the story, by the way, is what you highlighted, is that one chunk of land was secured by one of Shehu's lawyers in 07 by presenting property officials with a mistranslated Ottoman-era land record while translated from Ottoman Turkish, an archivist substituted the original owner and inserted his name instead. Court later found. That is apparently how property is disputed in Albania, which is incredible. Incredible. All right, let's get to the next one.

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18:14One of them being Barry Weiss's Free Press. Let's take a listen. Do you ever feel like you're from watch? That's the panic behind a new fear sweeping across America. People are freaked out about surveillance from our employers, our nanny cams, and our phones watching our every move. And right now, this anxiety is being taken out with electric saws and cans of spray paint on tools used by law enforcement to keep us all safe. The target? Flock safety cameras. In upstate New York, someone cut down a flock safety camera with an electric saw. In Oakland, California, another was covered in kink. And in Idaho, someone rammed one with their truck.

18:47And in good old Florida, a man just sits in his lawn chair with a cardboard held up for the lens. Since January, roughly 23 cities have canceled their contracts or shut off their block camera over a fourth amendment. There's even an open source intelligence website, D-Flock, that's finding these cameras so people know exactly where to vandalize them. Here's what's actually under attack. In 2025 alone, the system helped lowly 10 ,000 missing ways. About 27 people a day or about one every hour. Over 40 % of agencies said Flock helped recover over half of the stolen vehicles in their jurisdiction.

19:20In Indiana, an infant abducted at a shopping center was found in under two hours. In Ohio, a missing girl was located in under 30 minutes. And this is the tool that people are treating like the enemy. It is fair to have concerns about how companies use and track our data, but that's not what these cameras are for. To be blunt, they're not interested in you. Unless you're a kidnapper, a thief, or someone who intends to do harm. They're not interested in you unless, what is it, you need to comply. If you've got nothing to hide, then why do you worry? This is vintage privacy arguments from the war on terror era.

19:52But this is where it actually bears investigation. It's like, okay, are these claims even true? Let's put the next one up here on the screen. And we've gone through some of this before. one in three alerts wrong. High error rates and data concerns force cities to drop flock. A 32 % LAPD false positive rate and immigration data fears have pushed 82 contracts across 28 states to collapse. They say that an LAPD audit reveals that flock safety cameras produced a 32.3 % false positive stolen vehicle alert rate, and at least 82 municipalities have canceled them. More than 5 ,000 cities now currently have Flock cameras, which are scanning license plates.

20:31Again, most residents never voted for it. 30 localities apparently just deactivated them since early 2025, and that number continues to grow. But I feel like the LAPD in particular, being one of the largest, what is the second largest city in the nation, being one of those who is going to come out and say, hey, purely based on business reasons, I'm not going to put morality in the LAPD. I don't think those two things to go together. They're not like worried about privacy or any of that. But for them, it's pure business. They're like, yeah, we used it and it got a false positive rate for stolen vehicle.

21:02We've covered some of the stories here. Terrifying incidents of people being pulled over and finding themselves like either held at gunpoint or others being accused of false or having a stolen vehicle. We covered previously the guy who drives cars like for a living for dealership plates. He got surrounded by police on some sort of a false incident. And I think there's just like a bigger question. Like she talks about like, oh, these companies are not interested in you. But they do have all of the data. So they are interested. And also it's not the government that has the data. It's the private company themselves.

21:32They claim, you know, that they have to abide by X, Y, and Z privacy record. Is there an audit of it? Like what are the internal controls? What exactly, what, you know, recourse do I have as a citizen to make sure that that is not being improperly used? And this is everywhere. She also says DFLOC is an organization for people to vandalize. Again, by that definition, Waze is a terrorist tool because I know where every cop is on I-95. That framing was so dishonest. That's what I mean, right? So they're like, oh, by just knowing where it is, that in and of itself is a tool of vandalism. I'm sure cops hate it when we mark them on Waze.

22:09We do it because we don't want to get a speeding ticket. That doesn't make you a terrorist. Right. Right? Yeah, of course. And all of this has required obfuscation and hiding from people what is actually happening in their own towns. So they do see D-Flock as, you know, the CEO of the company who later apologized, called it a terroristic organization because it is providing people with just transparency and information about what is happening so that they can politically organize and act on it. It is so dishonest in her little, you know, vertical video to not talk about any of the instances of misuse that have been documented.

22:48I'm not even talking about the false positives where police really think they got the bad guy and then they come and we'll show you one in a minute and create very dangerous situations. By the way, not to mention this is a waste of police resources because they're going after the wrong person. Meanwhile, the person, whoever they're trying to get is getting off scot-free. I'm talking about the 50 police officers who've been charged with abuse of this system using this to stalk. Tell me that Flock is not interested in you unless you're a kidnapper or a thief, etc. Tell that to the woman who was stalked by her abusive ex, whose child was also stalked by the abusive ex, whose future partner is also stalked by.

23:22I mean, so it's such incredibly dishonest and selective framing. She also uses the stats that come directly from the company. Just this is like basically a flop camera press release that they put together for the free press. To give you another example here of, you know, a really dangerous situation because of a flock error. This is a local news story about the wrong person being aggressively pulled over on an interstate, cops jumping out, guns drawn. And it wasn't even the right person. Let's take a look at that. This is D4. Good morning. Yeah, quite the mix up. Brookfield police say they pulled over a car because a flock camera flagged it for connection to a Milwaukee homicide investigation.

24:07Well, it turns out quite the mix up, not just wrong person, but also wrong car. Take a look again at that video that you see here. You can see multiple squads on I-94 in Waukesha County. Officers with guns drawn and a passenger sticking their hands out the window. Police pulled over the car after a flat camera flagged it again for Milwaukee homicide. But when Brookfield police called Milwaukee, Milwaukee said they no longer needed the car or the people inside. So officers let them go. That's according to Brookfield police. Wow. How long until this gets someone killed? I mean, if you're a normal person, it reminds me of the ICE stops with like the, you know, unmarked vehicles where people think they're being carjacked.

24:52Like if you're a normal person, look, these are marked cars. So to be fair here, but you're not expecting to have this aggressive. You're on an interstate and they're pinning you in and coming out guns drawn. Most people don't know how to react in that situation. You make one wrong move. Next thing you know, you've got a person who's killed. and the death on the conscience of the officers too, by the way, all because of the stupid tech that got something wrong. It is a very disturbing situation. And I get that there's no doubt they're helping to solve some crimes. There's no doubt about it. You're right.

25:23But you have to ask the question, where do you draw the line? Because that logic will work forever of, okay, well, if we just put cameras on every street, if we just put cameras in every building, if we just put cameras, you know, activate your phone camera in every house, then no one could ever get away with anything. And then they'd have 100 percent compliance with the law. Is that worth it to you? So where are you going to draw the line? And I think many Americans at this point are drawing the line before we get to flat cameras. There was a man who was arrested in West Virginia for vandalizing a flat camera.

Read the full transcript

25:55And the Facebook post about his arrest, but D3B up on the screen, 29 ,000 plus comments. And all of them are like, oh, couldn't have been him. He was with me. We're helping orphans. Yeah, it couldn't have been him. He was helping me make a tank setup for some snakes. He was saving my neighbor's dog from a fire all day. Couldn't be him. Arrested for doing community service is wild. Couldn't be he was canoeing with me that day. This is literally, I can't say 100%, but this is like 99 % of the comments that were left on this post to give you a sense of how much this has disturbed the population at large.

26:29And I think that the private angle really matters here. It's a company with no, like for example, Their trust center says every search is recorded, logs and review tools help agencies check usage. The thing is, though, is that the audit and review system is run by the agency using the camera. It's not by an independent party. And none of us voted for it. Like, look, I support, actually, like if we're going to have, you know, a radical reduction in petty crime, which would be my dream here in the United States, I need to make that case. We all need to buy in and be like, all right, guys, we're going to have these camera systems everywhere.

27:09We will no longer have petty crime or any of this. But this is why I think this is a good, bad idea. You get to vote and to decide if I lose, so be it. Right. And that's that's important. That sort of discussion would require the people who wanted them to say, and here's going to be the checks. Here's how we're going to make sure that when the police department implements this, there's not going to be abuses of police officers randomly stalking their ex-girlfriends, the mother of their children or whatever. And so you would have those systems put in place. Instead, this is the wild, wild west.

27:38People didn't have any idea this was happening. There was no Democratic accountability or a check. So now you have this, I think, increasing. I mean, I haven't seen any polling on it yet. But you were talking about how you searched this, and every local news station is picking up on this. I was going to end on that. Because it really is, like, becoming this flashpoint. And it ties back to the Francesca Hong thing. She's picked this up in her campaign, too, very savvy. Free advice for any politician. when I was researching this story, every single location, I'm talking about Wyoming, flock cameras, Chicago, flock camera, Texas, flock camera.

28:12Every single negative headline. Everyone is about communities getting upset, vandalism, about debates. You know, local news organizations are running polls. Should we have flock in Cheyenne or something? You know, it's like small. Not small, but by our standards, it's small. Like, this is not a national, national issue yet, but it's like data centers. I can smell it. Like when there's local news, these people, like they know exactly like what's capturing attention, right? That's why they cover crime and they cover local. They live in the community, finger on the balls. Yeah, exactly. They live there.

28:42Like they know what gets attention. If they're all riding up flock and it's all negative, free advice for any politician out there. And like I said, if you want to defend it, like the free press and all that are doing, it needs to be taken to a ballot. A locality must vote on whether they want themselves, to be surveilled all the time. They need guarantees, independent audits, and none of that's happening. That's what's so terrifying about this. It's like opting in just because the cops like it, they get to do whatever they want to do. That is the inverse of what a civilian force who we grant extraordinary control should be able to do to us.

29:21So that's my last thing. We have to have a democratic actual process surrounding this, and if we come around on it, then that's fine. But I don't think that that's going to play out right now. Let's get to David Day, and he's standing by. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. The Summer Savings Event is here at Apple Vacations. It's the perfect time to bring everyone together for the getaway you've been dreaming about. Book between July 24th and August 27th and enjoy up to 55 % instant savings. From relaxing beach days to unforgettable moments with the people who matter most, your next vacation starts here.

29:52Travel through July 31st, 2027. Start your vacation today at AppleVacations.com or through your travel advisor. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. Ugh, hon, the ice cream has turned to soup. I think the fridge is finally dead. Hopping on GrandAppliance.com. Great idea. They were awesome with the Samsung Ranger microwave we bought last year. Oh, they have matching Samsung in stock and next day delivery. Let me see. Oh, yeah, that looks perfect. I hope we get the same delivery crew. Those guys were awesome. Agree. Total pros. Another crisis averted by the team at Grand Appliance. Appliance experts since 1930.

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31:19David Dayen of the American Prospect has identified a potential backdoor bailout mechanism that may already have been established. The headline here is the AI bailout could be baked into the AI bubble. Private credit companies are key owners of AI-related assets. Many of their parent private equity firms own life insurers that are dumping grounds for bad loans and subject to state bailouts. American Prospect's David Dayen joins us now to explain. Welcome, sir. Good to see you. Hi, how you doing? Great. So just explain to people, as basic as you can, the mechanism here and what your concerns are.

31:55I mean, it's not going to be that easy, but here we go. Yeah, take your time. Yeah, private equity over the last several years has purchased a number of life insurance firms. Some of the more famous ones are Apollo, which is a big private equity firm by Athene. KKR, another big fee firm, has a couple different. life insurers. And these life insurers operate very differently. Particularly their portfolios are very different than a normal life insurer. A lot of these private credit loans are making their way into the balance sheets of these life insurers. And this then gets tied into the way that life insurance insolvencies are resolved.

32:47So it's not through the traditional bankruptcy system. And there's good reason for that because life insurance policies are relied upon by people and families when one of their loved ones die. And the public policy does not want those to just simply go away if a life insurer becomes insolvent. So there's a lot of risk on these PE-owned life insurer balance sheets. In the event of an insolvency, the way it works in almost every state is that there are after-the-fact assessments, almost like deposit insurance with the FDIC, with one key difference. In deposit insurance, the assessments are made before a company goes bankrupt.

33:36So all banks pay into this fund, and when there is an insolvency, that bank, those deposits are covered by the amount of money in the fund. With life insurance, if there's an insolvency, only the surviving companies end up paying for the insolvent firm to back up those policies. However, there's sort of this bailout written into it. Those surviving firms in 44 states then can get a tax credit that is equal to 100 % of the assessment that they make. And therefore, it's state taxpayers who end up on the hook for these insolvent life insurance companies. The theory here is that private credit, which has a lot of AI-related assets, make these insolvencies a bit more likely.

34:37And if that's the case, then essentially the popping of the AI bubble could trigger this process by which state taxpayers would essentially be paying for the sins of these life insurance companies owned by private equity. Got it. Okay. So when we put all of this together, all of this financing, this deck of cards, We can put E2, for example, up on the screen. This was just announced yesterday. Wall Street giants partnering with NVIDIA on a$500 billion AI financing deal. Apollo, Blackstone, Goldman among the groups working with the chip maker to raise capital for data centers. Apparently, it is one of the largest capital raises, I think private capital raises, in Wall Street history.

35:23How do these two things fit together? Well, obviously, there's just a ton of money flooding into this space. And if you think about some of the events of the last few weeks, the release of more Chinese AI models that show that actually you don't need this kind of capital expansion to create functional artificial intelligence models. the extreme expense that private companies are paying for things like chat GPT, for things like anthropic models, and then abandoning this process because the price has risen so heavily on tokens, which is the way that companies pay for AI. you put this all together and the incredible, as I'm sure you guys have reported, the incredible backlash to data center build-outs.

36:19Many of these private credit loans are based in the financing of construction of data centers. And so you put all this together, and there are a lot of ways where the current model of throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at capital expenditures, which finance data centers, which create frontier models, could go away, right? I mean, there are a lot of ways where that could go sour. And whether it's Wall Street money from private banks or whether it's money that has been loaned through these special purpose vehicles that are tied to private credit, any way in which the data center mass capital expenditure becomes problematic could threaten any of those sources of capital.

37:12And the difference between this being a situation with banks and being a situation with private credit loans that have been dumped en masse into these life insurance company portfolios is that with banks, you'd have to sort of put together some sort of bailout authority, much like TARP in 2008, or the Federal Reserve would have to engage in some action. Whereas with respect to the life insurance companies, if they go insolvent, this is just triggered because this is already the law in most states in the union. Can you explain for people what private credit is and why it has ended up being such an important source of financing for the AI build-out?

38:02Private credit is essentially the credit arm of private equity. So most private equity firms now are these sort of full-service entities and platforms. And private credit is their lending arm. Most private credit loans are to portfolio companies of that private equity firm. That's not completely out of the woods either because a lot of private equity firms, for example, bought software companies that are threatened if the AI revolution actually goes well. And these software companies are no longer needed. You know, we've had this software apocalypse in the markets where software companies have seen their stocks just absolutely plummet.

38:52That has led to a lot of redemptions from companies or from investors who are in private credit. The way that private credit is financed is the same way that private equity is financed. Investors, institutional investors, give money to the private equity fund. The private equity fund invests it, in this case, in loans. In the case of just normal private equity, the money is used, along with borrowed money, to buy companies. So it's just another way to engage in this financing. And a lot of these loans are somewhat suspect. It's hard to value them. They have sort of bespoke credit rating agencies that are paid by the private equity firms to give them good ratings.

39:39Oh, boy. Not a lot of people know what sort of goes into the secret sauce of these private credit loans. And certainly the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, which is a state-based organization of state insurance commissioners has no idea what are in these loans. And one thing, a paper that is put out by two researchers, one from Texas, one from Yale, looked at some of the portfolio balance sheets of these private credit companies and found that specifically with respect to life insurers, whereas a normal life insurer has a pretty modest mix of mostly corporate, very, very blue chip corporate loans and treasuries, about 13 % of a normal life insurer is in private placement, like alternative assets, private credit loans, things like that.

40:34When it's a private equity owned private life insurer, about half of those loans are in private credit and things of that nature. And so these are just much riskier bets. And it does, that these life insurance companies, their balance sheets have become sort of dumping grounds for loans that couldn't be, you know, maybe they're not performing well, or they're engaged in forbearance where the borrower doesn't have to pay right away, things of that nature. And so this has raised a lot of concern from a lot of key observers. Wow. Yeah, kind of scary, I think, hearing you talk about it, because it's almost an ingenious way, very similar to how they were able to keep the mortgage-backed security fraud going for so long and to have a built-in bailout.

41:28I mean, what are the signs that we should look for? I mean, are there any regulatory ability to crack down on this, or is the cake just baked? Well, I mean, that is the main issue here is that we have not seen this sort of system of life insurer insolvencies en masse in our history. Right. Since this thing has been set up, this kind of procedure whereby the surviving firms pay for the policyholders and then they get a backdoor bailout through these tax credits. It just hasn't happened. In 2008, AIG was a major insurance company, and it went basically insolvent. But because the Federal Reserve stepped in, and later on Congress blessed that through the TARP program, we did not see this potential, you know, this insolvency procedure in action.

42:29So it's very untested. The people that I talked to, these people who wrote the paper, these researchers from Texas and Yale, don't think it will actually work. Because think about if at the height of the financial crisis, every state had to undergo this process to bail out AIG. Like, think about how hard that would have been. Yeah. And at a time of extreme stress. And that's what we would see if there was, you know, sort of a macroeconomic level of stress throughout the economy. And one of these life insurance companies, Athene or one of the others, went under. You'd have to have 50 state programs to try to resolve this thing.

43:15And so it's dangerous. Obviously, there's a lack of sort of regulatory juice on the part of these insurance commissioners. There's a hope that, you know, we could get more of an insight into that. And there's a number of recommendations in the paper that I write about in this story about how to do that. Very important story. I really recommend people read it. I read it two or three times to make sure that I understood the dynamics here. But, you know, it does remind very much of the financial crisis where there were all these linkages beneath the surface and also the ratings agencies also being asleep at the switch or compromised in a lot of regards.

43:55It has a lot of echoes for some of what went down there. David Dayen, thank you so much. Great to see you. Thank you, David. Appreciate it. Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it. It'll be a great show for everybody tomorrow, Wednesday. See you then.

44:43Apple Vacations Visit AppleVacations.com or through your travel advisor. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. Ugh, Han, the ice cream has turned to soup. I think the fridge is finally dead. Hopping on GrandAppliance.com. Great idea. They were awesome with the Samsung Ranger microwave we bought last year. Oh, they have matching Samsung in stock and next day delivery. Let me see. Oh, yeah, that looks perfect. I hope we get the same delivery crew. Those guys were awesome. Agree. Total pros. Another crisis averted by the team at Grand Appliance. Appliance experts since 1930. This episode is supported by FX's The Shards, a seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy.

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From the publisher

Krystal and Saagar discuss China shuts down billionaire wealth funnel, Bari Weiss FP defends Flock cameras, hidden AI bailout on the horizon.

David Dayen: https://prospect.org/author/david-dayen/ 

 

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