8/20/25: Trump Says No Troops In Ukraine, Cuomo Prays For Trump Rescue, Epstein Coverup, US Troops Near Venezuela, Steel Tariffs & MORE!

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21:39Emily Jashinsky:Let's move on to this leaked audio of Andrew Cuomo. This is really something. So this is, we could put B1 on the screen. This is more, I guess, ammunition. So this is in this leaked audio from Andrew Cuomo in the Hamptons. He says, we can minimize the Sliwa vote because he'll never be a serious candidate. And Trump himself, as well as top Republicans, will say the goal is to stop Mom Donnie. and you'll be wasting your vote on Sliwa. So I feel good about that. With the next quote, let's put it this way. I knew the president very well. I believe there's a big piece of him. He's asked right here, you know, is Trump going to get involved?

22:21Because you spoke with him recently. Sorry, go ahead.

22:23Emily Jashinsky:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a helpful context. So I knew the president very well. I believe there's a big piece of him that actually wants redemption in New York. He feels that he was rejected by New York. We voted for Hillary Clinton. Bill de Blasio took his name off things. So I believe there will be opportunities to actually cooperate with him. I believe that he's not going to want to fight with me in New York if he can avoid it. So that quote makes its way into the New York Times. That was at a fundraiser, right? Like a Hampton's fundraiser. I think political scooped it first, yeah. OK, so it makes its way into the press.

22:51Emily Jashinsky:Now, you will not be surprised to learn that Zoran Mamdani is already capitalizing on that and using it to fuel his attack narrative on Cuomo that he's cooperating with Donald Trump. So Mamdani posted at another Hamptons fundraiser with Republican donors on Saturday, Andrew Cuomo said it plainly. He's expecting Trump's help to defeat us in November. I feel good about that, Cuomo said. New Yorkers won't. So that is a pretty significant new weapon in the Mamdani arsenal against Andrew Cuomo. And I wonder, Ryan, if this makes Cuomo look sloppier and sloppier in a way that hurts his candidacy, too.

23:33Emily Jashinsky:I don't know. I think I can see. I mean, I have a little bit of familiarity with the Republican donor class, and I can see them thinking this is actually really badass of Cuomo. Like he's just given it to the Dems and he's starting to really get it and be empathetic towards them. So maybe that even gives Cuomo more momentum with Republican donors who keep fueling him. And these were Republican donors and not just any Republican donor. This is inside baseball for Breaking Points viewers. This was at the home of Jimmy Finkelstein. Yes, yes, yes. In the Hamptons, who you may or may not know was the former wannabe oligarch owner of The Hill, which was the owner of Rising, which was always a very weird marriage.

24:23I think he hated that show.

24:25Emily Jashinsky:But he kind of loved that show, too, because he liked making money. Yeah. He liked that the show had an audience. He did not like what the show was saying. Right, right. Yeah. And then Finkelstein sold the Hill. Chris Lensager left before Finkelstein sold the Hill. Yes, yeah. He sold it to News Nation. Yes. Which is Chris Cuomo. Nextar. Right, right. Nextar, which owns News Nation. Right, right. and a whole bunch of local news networks for$100-plus,$200-plus million. He then started another news organization here in D.C. that went belly up already. I don't even remember its name. It wasn't noticed, right?

25:05Emily Jashinsky:No, it wasn't noticed, but they were offering people$500 ,000 salaries. I mean, not quite, but to jump over. It lasted like four months. Yeah, maybe not even. But he has enough money that he still has a Hamptons home and was able to have Mom Donnie, not Mom Donnie, able to have Cuomo over. And yes, I think your point is very good. Jimmy is, my understanding, not just a Republican donor. He's one of those people who's both, right? He's one of those people who probably, my guess would be like Manchin. But he's close with Trump. He's like a guy that Trump will take his phone calls. Yeah. Yeah, he likes Manchin, sure.

25:41They all love Manchin. What's not to love about Manchin if you're him? But yes, he's tight with Trump, Republican donor. But I think your point is right. So Cuomo's argument is, okay, you like his ideas and you like him. You don't like me or my ideas, but I don't have any ideas. What I have is I'm good at government. I'm competent. I've done this before. It's a big, sprawling bureaucracy. You need a tough guy like me to be able to run this thing. the guy can't run his own campaign it completely undermines the only argument that he has yes for why he should be mayor right like if mom donnie is better at campaigning than you are and you've been campaigning your entire life since you were a child campaigning for your father then why should we believe that he's not also going to be just more competent forget the ideas is but like if you if you were judging the level of competence between cuomo and mom donnie and all you have to go on is the campaign or cuomo's career but forget put that aside is the campaign you'd be like mom donnie knows what he's doing and you don't i am not a political genius i could tell you that tying yourself to donald trump in the new york mayoral election might not be the best strategy.

27:05And also, when you go to the Hamptons, somebody's recording that. Who do you think's serving your drinks?

27:11Emily Jashinsky:The entire Hamptons is just being live streamed. Of course. Yeah. To someone's. It's like eight reality shows. There were probably two reality TV camera crews at that fundraiser. They were there. Yes. It'll be a year from now until we get that footage, but. I'd love to see that footage. You know, I actually, I have a slightly different take on the mom donnie trump strategy tying cuomo to trump i just don't think that's the most powerful weapon against cuomo like there are a million other ways to attack cuomo but tying him to a brash populist new yorker is like probably it's not a slam dunk there are a lot of people who are basically i think you underestimate the hostility to trump well on a visceral level I mean, I definitely know that's very, very real.

27:58Emily Jashinsky:But I guess I also just think he's running a kitchen table election. You know what I mean? Like, his candidacy is very much like a kitchen table candidacy, not a resistance culture war candidacy. And so there's so many easy, easy attacks on Cuomo. And he makes them. It's not like it's a zero-sum game. Like, you can do both at the same time. He seems very eager with the strategy. and maybe there's testing and all kinds of stuff, focus groups. But I also just think New York is a very pragmatic city that's like twice elected Republican mayors in memory, like recent memory. So I don't know. General election in New York City is a weird thing.

28:37That's true. They have elected some Republican mayors.

28:41Emily Jashinsky:Cuomo, in that audio, Cuomo was saying, like they took, DeBazio took Trump's names off buildings. Like he's kind of implying that Donald Trump might give New York all kinds of goodies if we just put his name back on stuff And like, that's true. It's absolutely true. We all know that. I also took from that that it was sort of a readout of his call with Trump. Yes. That that list of grievances was the thing, were the things that Trump was complaining about to him. Hillary, de Blasio. I mean, you can just hear Trump. Yes. Complaining about de Blasio to Cuomo. And also because that is a thing, like nobody hates de Blasio more than Cuomo.

29:19Emily Jashinsky:Yes. They were at war every day, all day to a degree that really harmed the state and the city. Yeah. Became extraordinarily childish. And so Trump would have loved to fuel into that. So I think where this gets more, actually more powerful, that very attack, is if it can start to look sort of like a secret plot. And that might be why Mamdani is latching onto it because that is a really powerful narrative. It looks like there's a secret Republican plot to install Andrew Cuomo, quote, Democrat, as mayor of New York City. And this is where yesterday Mamdani got another giant gift in the form of a man named Jason Levine or Levin.

30:01Emily Jashinsky:I'm not sure how that one's pronounced, but I'm just going to read a rundown here from Politico. We can probably put these these memes up. This is B2 on the screen. So Jason Levin posts on X, I'm making memes for the mayor. Yes, actually, I made a meme for Andrew Cuomo that hit five million plus views. Tonight I met with Cuomo on his team to talk about marketing strategy. Here's how I plan to save NYC with memes alone. If you are listening to this, I can't describe to you how bad that meme is. If you're watching this, you see it. I don't even need to describe how bad that meme is. But he's boasting about his brilliant meme game and it's basically like boomer level.

30:40Emily Jashinsky:Although some boomers are incredible meme lords, but he's boasting about some pretty weak sauce, Ryan. Yeah, and he is pointing to the 5 million views, which that's a reference to what used to be Twitter, now X. Elon's numbers. Those are Elon's numbers. This is not a flex, but anybody out there watching this can probably remember. In the last week, you probably had a post that got a 5M on there. Yeah, allegedly, right. Right. It's like it's not that's not serious that those are that's 4.9 million people who scrolled right past it. Right. And 99 ,000 bots. And then a thousand friends of like Cuomo and Cuomo supporters who like clicked on it on Facebook or something.

31:27Emily Jashinsky:So then over to Politico. Cuomo apparently, I don't know if it was at that Hamptons fundraiser we were just talking about with the leaked audio or another one. There are many Hamptons fundraisers for Cuomo. I assume every weekend you can probably, you might have to change your outfit 10 times so that you're not repeating it and you can hit the circuit and look good. But at another fundraiser, he was shouting at his social media team. And Politico writes, the team did a stupid thing. The Cuomo campaign is scrambling to distance themselves from self-proclaimed meme lord Jason Levin after he proudly boasted on X late Monday about making a meme the Cuomo campaign posted and his plan to do more.

32:02Emily Jashinsky:The problem for Cuomo, Politico continues, is that Levin's online persona is that of a provocative MAGA booster proudly proclaiming he voted for Trump last year. This is one of his posts. I'm a proud Jew who voted for Hitler, all caps, over a photo of Trump in a Yarmulke. calling him Hitler was meant as a sarcastic criticism of liberals who do the same, as Politico helpfully explains for us. Levin didn't respond to a request for comment, but he is, quote, not paid by the campaign. He suggested one meme to someone on that team, Cuomo spokesperson Rich Azapardi, told Playbook, hatred, bigotry, misogyny, and anything like that has no place in this race.

32:41Emily Jashinsky:Misogyny has no place in the Cuomo race? This is shocking information. Okay, we have more memes to look at, though, so let's go through B3 here. Great stuff. Which union are you going after? Teachers, firemen. It goes down the whole list. It's union-busting time, baby. Yeah, this is him quote-tweeting a Paul Graham 2015 post that said, any industry that still has unions has potential energy that could be released by startups. And yeah, so this guy, 11, quote-tweets that and says, it's union-busting time, baby. So this is Cuomo's meme lord. It goes back to the competence question we were talking about earlier.

33:20Totally. Mahmoudani does not do this kind of thing.

33:23Emily Jashinsky:He's making the competence argument as a guy who face-planted in an easy slam-dunk race against a 33-year-old state senator. And then also has MAGA meme lords writing for him, audio leaking the Hamptons, talking about how he is cozy with Donald Trump. Let's put also, we can keep going through some of these. like this is good evening Brian Johnson how many carrots do I have to eat for my eyesight to be good enough to see through women's clothing this guy's got to come on board the Breaking Points team and do some social media for us just great stuff next one we can take a look at I think this is the last one people were just digging through this guy's entire social media history okay maybe this was the last one but he is I would actually say probably a great fit for the Cuomo campaign Sure.

34:15Emily Jashinsky:And they can they can distance themselves from him. But the fact of the matter is he says he met with Cuomo and his team to talk about marketing strategy and posted a picture of himself with Andrew Cuomo. So the Cuomo campaign can say he suggested a meme to us, but anyone can suggest a meme to the Cuomo campaign. And probably some people do once every couple of days on X when people are, you know, they're talking about Andrew Cuomo as infrequently as they do in a positive light. and say, hey, sir, we'd love you to use this meme in your campaign. They don't listen to anybody. Obviously, they were talking to this guy and hadn't thoroughly vetted him.

34:52Emily Jashinsky:So on that note, let's bring in Chris Cuomo, the one and only Chris Cuomo. Speaking of the Jimmy Finkelstein, Next Star, Cuomo nexus, this is Chris Cuomo just as his brother is running as a Democrat for mayor of New York City saying the Democrats suck. My brother's a Democrat. I don't know why, but he is. My father was a Democrat. I know exactly why he was, but his party doesn't exist anymore. Now it's the left arguing for a cultural elite. This is how you will talk about people, Benny. This is how you will raise your kids. This is what you will tell them is okay. This is what you will say and not say.

35:36And the Republicans are, this system sucks. All the little people are getting squashed. These elites are killing us. Anti-everything. They flipped the idea of going to socialism, not socialistic. Yes, public education. Yes, entitlements. Yes, there are socialistic aspects to our constitutional republic within a capitalistic model that work. They work for the collective. That's what we do. But it's a capitalistic society. No Democrat ever argued for anything else. No Democrat would have argued for open borders. None of this. My father would have done none of this. Today, it's all provocative bullshit all the time.

36:21No responsibility, no accountability.

36:24Emily Jashinsky:So that was Chris Cuomo talking to Benny Johnson, which is amusing in and of itself. But Ryan, just final point on all of this is Cuomo was just making a much better pitch for his brother's campaign than his brother ever does because as a politician, his brother is not out there talking about how, as Cuomo says populist Republicans are, the system is broken and the system sucks and it's rigged for elites. That is absolutely not the Cuomo campaign. I mean, he can try, but the style only goes so far. Trying to position yourself as this populist champion of the working class is insane when everybody knows it doesn't go to the substance at all.

37:03Emily Jashinsky:So good luck. 16 years ago, I started working as a CNA in the hospital. I loved it. On the day I decided to enroll in the nursing program at Rasmussen University, it was afternoon, my 35th birthday. I was hanging out with a friend, and they had just questioned me what I was going to do with this next chapter of my life. I immediately had said, I want to go to nursing school. So I actually had contact information from an advisor at Rasmussen, contacted her, and actually ended up starting like three weeks later. My name is Cherish Adams, and I'm a Rasmussen University graduate. Learn more at rasmussen.edu.

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38:38Emily Jashinsky:Well, after all of these years, MSNBC, Microsoft NBC is changing its name. Let's go ahead and take a look at this graphic. Announced just a couple of days ago, MSNBC, by the end of the year, is going to become MS Now, which stands for My Source, News, Opinion, World. Ryan, that is a beautiful poem, My Source, News, Opinion, World, MS Now. As part of this rebranding effort, or as they were discussing this rebranding effort, we have to roll this clip of the conversation on Morning Joe, where they frame it as part of MSNBC embracing its identity as, these are actual words used in the segment, an insurgent, independent network.

39:25Emily Jashinsky:Take a look. This shows we're independent. And what I've said on this show time and time again, as you look at the people that are running the company, they're entrepreneurial. We want you to come up with new ideas. We want you to push the boundaries. I'm excited about that. So I'm excited about this, too. It's like, you know, what's in the name? Well, whatever you put into the name. Well, despite my sentimentality about the Peacock, I've always loved the Peacock. The truth is I've always thought about this network and CNBC and USA and actually all of those assets as insurgent networks. Right.

39:56This is an insurgent network. And I love the idea, to be honest with you, you can take out your salt shaker or whatever you want to do and say, you know, take it with a grain of salt. But I like this because I think it actually does have this sort of independence and actually gets away in some ways from even the idea of legacy media. We are moving. We're moving in direction beyond corporate media. And again, I think this fits. It fits. It's where it's a new marketplace. Are we going to be like Eastman Kodak throughout the 1980s and 90s? You know, or are we going to be like Nvidia and look at a brave new world?

40:31And I think this actually helps us do that. The media landscape has been changing a lot over the last decade or so, but it's been really accelerated in the last few years in this particular moment. So it does seem an ideal time to rebrand, an ideal time to embrace a new identity, as you said, to be an insurgent network. By the way, it's also a line in the sand just about the future. And the truth is that this network, originally the MS, was Microsoft. Microsoft. So for a very long time, there has been a rebrand, I would argue, almost in order. Yeah. What do you think? I think it's good. A slight smile.

41:09You're just saying that.

41:10Emily Jashinsky:No, I think it's good. We know for a fact that people get their news, a lot of it from YouTube and TikTok. So if you're the biggest news network out there, that's a big deal. We've always used to say MS anyway. And then the truth is now is what this is all about. Right. As promised, that is MSNBC referring to their future as MSNOW as getting away from corporate media, being more independent and insurgent. But, but, but you will be surprised to learn that as part of the spinoff from NBCUniversal, Comcast, this new company that does include MSNBC also includes CNBC, USA, Oxygen E, Syfy, and the Golf Channel.

41:50Emily Jashinsky:It's still going to be part of a publicly traded company, of course, called Versant, which made this MSNBC MS Now announcement. I think it was on Monday formally. So, Ryan, they are trying very hard to brand themselves 10 years too late as the future of media, non-corporate, independent, insurgent. That is obviously laughable, but they're at least getting this first part correct, that it's where the winds are shifting. Yes. New York Times calls itself independent media. Amazing. And has for quite some time, actually. And in the sense that they are not owned by a higher corporation, they are actually independent.

42:33Like the New York Times is a publicly traded company that owns the New York Times. So in that sense, they're independent.

42:40Emily Jashinsky:But they're a major corporation with a board. Yeah. And in some ways, the Times, I would give more credence to that, to the Times calling themselves independent than MS Now because the Times does rely pretty heavily now on its subscriber base. And so just like we do. And then they have corporate advertising on top of that. Whereas MS Now is basically just all corporate advertising and cable revenue. I, you know, they have subscribers in the sense that people pay cable and then it goes from them, you know, it goes through the cable company to MS Now. But there's nobody who's like every month or every year, you know, saying I support this independent media.

43:30Emily Jashinsky:So the board of directors for Versant is the former CEO of Yum Brands. Okay. So this is former chairman of international content and operations at Walt Disney, former CEO of Starbucks North America, former president of Samsung. It's all kinds of people from the corporate world. Actually, the New York Times board of directors is not entirely dissimilar from that. But to say that you're moving away from corporate media as a corporation with a board full of corporate. Maybe they're independent corporate media. Yeah, independent corporate media. That's the new thing. That's like I think the third way guy, Matt Bennett, said that what Democrats need right now is a combative centrist.

44:18Emily Jashinsky:He told Axios that yesterday. So independent corporate media is the new oxymoron of the decade. And it is fair to say that CNN and MSNBC have a YouTube audience. Like when they put their clips out there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They will do well. No, that's a good point. If they were just in the podcast world, they'd be hanging tough. They're entering the space with a massive head start. We'll put it that way. Yes. Because they have huge. Wind is in their sails, yeah. Yeah, they have decades plus long of. And they have famous people. People like, and famous people are good for the algorithm. Yeah, they have built-in followers.

44:53Emily Jashinsky:Yes, of course. So it's not like they're going anywhere. But yeah, they're obviously realizing 10 years too late where the winds are blowing economically. but also then how that affects the public's appetite for content in a low institutional trust environment. How they handle austerity will be interesting because MSNBC, because of the cable revenue for a very long time, had just extraordinary amounts of money. Because the cable was just shedding money and just showering it on CNN and MSNBC. See, I was a contributor back in 2013, 14, 15. Amazing. And they started out paying me$50 ,000 a year just to, I was like, are you kidding me?

45:40$50 ,000? For what? They'd be like, just come on there when.

45:44Emily Jashinsky:Whenever we ask. Whenever we ask. And the next year they bumped it to 60. Like, that's it? Like a couple minutes a day at most? and and i was one of many dozens of people that they're just throwing that money to right and so what that what their world looks like um right after that after they can do that is a is a different question because like you know scarborough over there you know if they're throwing 60 grand at me to do nothing you know they're throwing millions at him of course and And that can only keep going because of the cable grift. Yeah, it's why CNN has hemorrhaged people like Don Lemon, who are super expensive and aren't at all worth what you're paying them.

46:35Emily Jashinsky:Like, it's interesting to think about what Anderson Cooper's future is like with CNN. CNN has already been doing significant downsizing. Now, bear in mind, to Ryan's point, some of these networks actually have huge website traffic, like are some of the big news networks, news websites in the world. So CNN is one of the top trafficked websites in the world, period, whether you're even talking about news or websites. So we think about their TV ratings going down. Well, MSNBC is losing that connection to NBC. So we'll see what happens. You know, they don't have their guys on the show and whatever else going forward and the website synergy.

47:08Emily Jashinsky:But they are obviously entering this with a huge head start. The final point that I just wanted to make is it reminds me, I wrote about this today, actually, that it reminds me so much of Cuomo in a weird way. This is the connection between these two blocks. Cuomo and the combative centrist model, it's funny because Gavin Newsom, too, they're co-opting the style of combativeness. But it's not going to, we know, whether you're talking about a cable network, affect the content. And with Gavin Newsom, it's not or Andrew Cuomo going to suddenly mean they are actual populist champions in substance.

47:43Emily Jashinsky:They're not going to start saying like Bernie Sanders does or reflecting in their policy platforms that the system is rigged, that the entire system is rotten and corrupt to its core. Do you not get started hearing that on MSNBC or in the Cuomo campaign events? But that's what the public wants. You might want when they cut Scarborough's pay. Yeah, then he's going to be like, it's over. Yes. All right. Well, Congressman Ro Khanna is here. So let's go ahead and bring him in. years ago, I started working as a CNA in the hospital. I loved it. On the day I decided to enroll in the nursing program at Rasmussen University, it was afternoon, my 35th birthday.

48:22I was hanging out with a friend and they had just questioned me what I was going to do with this next chapter of my life. I immediately had said, I want to go to nursing school. So I actually had contact information from an advisor at Rasmussen, contacted her and actually ended up starting like three weeks later. My name is Cherish Adams and I'm a Rasmussen University graduate.

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49:33Emily Jashinsky:Those guys were awesome. Agree. Total pros. Another crisis averted by the team at Grand Appliance. Appliance experts since 1930. Well, it's August recess, but Congressman Ro Khanna, who joins us now, is not giving up the fight for more details and disclosures in the case of Jeffrey Epstein. Congressman, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me back on. Of course. Now, we have covered your legislative effort with Republican Congressman Thomas Massey. Can you please give us an update on where this bill stands? Because obviously it's recess right now, but there's all kinds of legislative maneuvers that have been happening behind the scenes to avoid Republicans having to vote on this bill.

50:14Emily Jashinsky:Catch us up to speed. Well, as you remember, they shut down Congress a week early to prevent a vote on Massey and my bill. The good news is we have all 212 Democrats who are ready to sign a discharge petition, meaning it can force the vote. And we have 11 Republicans, including people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, who are saying we need to have a vote on this. So when we come back September 3rd, we're going to put the discharge petition out. I hope within 24 hours we get every Democrat. We get the Republicans. We force a vote. One other quick point, September 3rd, we have a press conference in front of the Capitol with victims of the Epstein abuse.

50:53They're coming in from around the country. First time many of them are speaking out. So that is going to up the urgency of the full disclosure.

51:01Emily Jashinsky:Absolutely. What I never understood is why they cared that much since the Senate would also have to pass it. Like I get why they don't want the legislation to be enacted. I get why they don't want to release information about what happened. But what are they so scared of it just passing the House? Have you had a Donald Trump tweet at you, Ryan? No, that's exactly it. You know, they live in fear of that Donald Trump truth social post. Look at what's happened to Thomas Massey is really, frankly, a profile in courage on this. He's had millions of dollars already spent against him. Donald Trump has taken the team that won his presidency and put all of them against Massey on a primary challenge.

51:46So there is no defiance. In fact, they came up with this resolution that had no teeth to try to give the Rules Committee an opportunity to vote on it. And they didn't even want to bring that, a toothless resolution, to the floor for fear of offending Donald Trump.

52:01Emily Jashinsky:We actually have a video of some victims talking about their experiences. We can go ahead and roll C1. It actually makes me sick that she is claiming to be a victim or have any form of innocence. this is the same woman that grabbed my arm and forced me into a room to be raped by jeffrey it was brutal and i remember limping from jeffrey's bedroom to the bungalow where the survivors slept and i remember looking at gilene and she had this evil smirk on her face she knew by forcing me into jeffrey's room that i was there to be raped and she enjoyed it She participated. She tortured me and others. And she's worse than Jeffrey.

52:51She broke the sisterhood. She broke that bond. She was supposed to be a protector and nurturer. And she failed us.

53:01Emily Jashinsky:So that also involves Ghislaine Maxwell, obviously, who we still, to my knowledge at least, and maybe you know more about this, Congressman, And we don't have an explanation for why she was suddenly moved to Club Fed in Austin or whether or not that is an appropriate use of federal resources, moving Ghislaine Maxwell to a lower security prison. Now, you said that you were having a press conference planned for September 3rd to push for the discharge position and the vote on the bill that you're championing with Thomas Massey. Have you been talking in contact with the victims? Can you tell us about maybe you've gotten to know some of them and where they stand on whether or not more disclosures is warranted in this case?

53:39Emily Jashinsky:Because that is one of the central tenets of the administration's position right now. Their stance is that we have documents that we've looked through for months. But Pam Bondi said we also have things that would damage the victims if we expose them to the public, which I think everybody understands is probably true. But that's not the excuse for keeping everything secret. So tell us about that. Well, it's just heartbreaking what's happened to the victims. And frankly, they have not been centered in this entire story, even when Epstein got that liked sentence. Their voices haven't been considered.

54:12Their voices haven't been considered with Maxwell. Right.

54:15Emily Jashinsky:They weren't told about the plea deal. They weren't told about the plea deal. They have never been consulted. They've not been. Their lawyer hasn't been consulted on what should be released. I mean, if they're really concerned about the victims, wouldn't you pick up the phone and talk to the victim's lawyer? I have not talked directly to the victims, but I've talked to their attorneys to respect for the victims. And I'll tell you that the victims, based on the attorneys, are going to say that what they want is full disclosure, that this is what is needed for justice and closure. Of course, they want the victim's identity protected and they want any sensational sort of information about particular private acts not in there.

54:52But they want full disclosure for closure. And that's really what we should be centering this back on, the victims. And I feel like I'm growing crazy here because for years, the kind of Republican subcultural reason to be was fighting against child sex trafficking. Right. And it feels like the White House should have one of those signs that says, like, you know, number of days since they covered up a child sex abuse ring. And they'd have to wipe it back down to zero because of this Las Vegas scandal. Yeah. which I'm sure you've followed a little bit. Tom Alexandrovich, a top cyber official with Israel, is in Las Vegas, lures what he thinks is a 15-year-old to some type of rendezvous and is then arrested because it was a federal and local sting and then immediately is shuttled back to Israel.

55:51I haven't actually seen, I've seen Marjorie Taylor Greene jumping on that. I've seen a lot of the kind of MAGA world types who made a lot of their bones about, you know, opposition to that type of trafficking. But I haven't seen Democrats kind of seize on it. And it seems like they've kind of, maybe it's August, they're at the beach.

56:16Emily Jashinsky:Or they're in Israel. Did you see that photo? Yes. I mean, they adjourned Congress because they didn't want to vote for the Epstein files. And then what do they do? They go and all pay homage to Netanyahu. I'm familiar with the case. I haven't focused on the details. I do think we need to speak out. My focus has been on Epstein because this is an area where we can actually make progress. The Justice Department has started to release some files to the Oversight Committee based on the subpoena. But so far, it's basically things already public. like it's really going to take a House vote to force it.

56:52And this is a place, the first time I would argue, that you've seen a split in the MAGA base. I mean, you have people like Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Tim Burchide, even Comer saying, we've got to release this, because it goes to what they were fighting for. They said, look, the government is corrupt. The government is protecting the rich and powerful. The government is protecting pedophiles. We're going to stand up with this. And now Donald Trump's not doing it. It's a fundamental betrayal to the MAGA base.

57:21Emily Jashinsky:And how far do you think those folks you just mentioned, because I know you're talking to them and you have worked on this bill with Congressman Massey. We all know Congressman Massey is willing to push this one as far as he possibly can. But sort of these others in MAGA world, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, Tim Burchett, how far do you think they're willing to go to upset the administration and the president? Because I can imagine press conference at September 3rd, the victims are speaking outside of the Capitol, and the discharge position is an immediate, urgent question on the table.

57:53Emily Jashinsky:Some people might get cold feet. Do you think that's the case? How far are they willing to go? Well, you've put your finger right on the central question. I mean, yes, we have 11 Republicans who are supporting it. We have even more who've spoken out for it. But whether they're going to sign that discharge petition, we won't know until it happens. Now, Thomas Massey and I are confident based on private conversations that they will, but there is going to be a huge amount of pressure by the president, the vice president, the White House to say, don't sign this discharge petition. And we'll see. And that's one of the reasons we have the victims coming.

58:28It's a big deal. They're flying in from around the country. Many of them have never spoken out before. You can imagine having to relive that trauma and to do it in the spotlight right in front of the Capitol. And they're doing it because they want this vote to take place. Has being out in front on this given you any more insight into what's actually going on? Like, have you heard from people at the FBI or the intelligence agencies or anywhere, either officially or informally, like, have you picked up anything new that you can share with us? I have picked up things from the victims and the victims' lawyers.

59:05And we've even subpoenaed, as a result of it, Epstein's estate, where some of these documents are likely there and they're alternatives. One of the things I have picked up, people say, well, how will we know if the Trump administration is actually going to release it and be transparent? And without getting into who said this, some people have said there are a lot of career folks who have seen these documents. So if people play games with it, you're going to have whistleblowers. You're going to have enough career folks who will come out and say, this isn't the full story.

59:37Emily Jashinsky:And you mentioned all Democrats are on board with the bill. And you've been consistent. Some of your colleagues have not. So what's your sense of why some Democrats were for a while either just not super interested in talking about the story, sometimes dismissing it as like QAnon, fear swamps? Is it because the Clinton implications other major Democratic donors? What's your sense of why people on the left were uncomfortable? I shouldn't say on the left, but in the Democratic Party, weren't comfortable previously with the story? I think our party can sometimes be culturally out of touch. So some people said, oh, it's a distraction.

1:00:17First of all, if voters are telling you they care about something, it's usually a good idea to say we should care about that issue. You know, I have my issues that I deeply care about, economic patriotism. But if I came on this program and tried to move the question every time and say economic patriotism as opposed to answering the question, you'd say, well, I don't want this person back again. So partly we're not listening. Partly the populist sentiment is not fully clear in people who've been in Congress 10, 20, 30 years. They don't like us. They don't trust us. They don't trust these institutions.

1:00:53And before we can do Medicare care for all, before we can do shoring up Medicaid, we've got to tell people that they can trust government. And so I think that the folks who've been there a long time, they just don't understand how much of a breakdown of trust there is. By the way, when we spoke yesterday, you said you were reaching out to Catherine Clark to see if she would join your two-state or your recognizing Palestine letter. You hear back? I'm waiting to hear, waiting to hear. I'm hoping, you know, we had big news and J Street has endorsed the letter. I'm going to be doing a conversation with them this afternoon.

1:01:30And, you know, but did you see Netanyahu's comments against the Australian prime minister? I mean, calling, saying he's betrayed Israel. The person who's betrayed Israel is Netanyahu. And he's out there lashing out against any leader, basically, who is doing the bare minimum, which is recognizing a Palestinian state. I saw your earlier interview, and the person was absolutely right. Right now we have to stop the bombing, stop the killing. The recognition is just table stakes. Yeah, and that's a good plug for that interview. We spoke with Arab Barghouti, Marwan Barghouti's son, and his life story just tells the entire story.

1:02:10He had the support of Hamas for a, he said, we should not attack civilians. I want a two-state solution on the 67 borders, bring all the factions together. And, you know, there's huge elements within Hamas that don't support all of that. But collectively, they're like, all right, you know what? Barghoutzi is the most popular politician in Palestine. He represents the will of the Palestinian people. We're behind him. And the solution has been to jail him and torture him for 20 years.

1:02:38Emily Jashinsky:Last question, Congressman. Marjorie Taylor Greene actually was on Megyn Kelly's podcast yesterday talking about AIPAC. And that's a sort of, I think Glenn Greenwald pointed out, just a remarkable turn of events in and of itself. And Marjorie Taylor Greene's on this bill. You mentioned that you have 11 Republicans on for Epstein disclosures. Have you ever seen anything like what's happened over the last couple of months, particularly on the question of Israel, which obviously has connections to the question of Epstein? Does it feel to you as a member of Congress like something is shifting when it comes to support for Israel?

1:03:12Emily Jashinsky:Well, obviously, Alyssa Slotkin had an ultra-viral moment on this show with Krystal and Sagar a couple of weeks ago, where even she seemed sort of eager to make the point that she was upset with Israel, which was interesting. So do you feel like there's a significant shift happening? It's been a tectonic shift over the last month, month and a half. You know, I was, of course, I had voted against the funding along with about 40 other Democratic members in April of 2024. I was out in the forefront saying Kamala Harris needs to change her Gaza policy or we're going to lose the election. I had called for a Palestinian speaker at the DNC.

1:03:52And I would say I was on the not not the fringe, but certainly on the very left of the party on that. I now actually feel that this last month, because of the starvation, the manmade starvation, you've had even moderates, people like Jean Shaheen. people like Ruben Gallego saying his position is changing, suddenly have a very different approach. And this shift is remarkable. And you have, you know, APEC is attacking me. I don't know how they choose the people they attack, but I'm apparently in a group with Bernie Sanders and a few others. And they put something out every day. And I said, well, the only person I'd rather be attacked by is right now is Netanyahu.

1:04:42So, you know, they're not, I think they're just out of touch.

1:04:46Emily Jashinsky:Fascinating. Well, Ro Khanna, as always, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. I think something that makes me well suited to be a nurse is my empathy. Growing up with a big family I think I've always kind of been a caregiver. When you care give you get to know the family and the patient and you get really close and Rasmussen University they did a very very good job of giving us the resources that we need. So just being able to apply the knowledge that I've retained to my daily life has been so amazing. Learn more at rasmussen.edu.

1:05:48Apple Vacations, where your story starts. The washer won't start and the laundry's already piled to the ceiling. Hopping on grandappliance.com. Great idea. I heard they have next day delivery. Uh-huh. I'm seeing that too. And they have a bunch of GE options in stock. Oh, that's great. We've always had good luck with GE appliances. This one looks perfect. Scheduling for tomorrow. Gosh, Grand really makes it easy. Another crisis averted by the team at Grand Appliance. Visit grandappliance.com today. Grand Appliance. Appliance experts since 1930. While President Trump has ruled out boots on the ground in Ukraine, he hasn't done it when it comes to Venezuela.

1:06:32Now, things got a little bit scary when the State Department put out what they said was a$50 million reward for a man they said is a fugitive narco trafficker. But when people looked at the name, they're like, wait a minute. I know that guy. It's the president of Venezuela. He's in Caracas. Can I have my$50 million now, please?

1:06:53Emily Jashinsky:Easiest 50 mil ever. Then you see news starts to break that there are secret plans to ramp up pressure against Venezuela. And you start to wonder, wait a minute, is this, are we going to do another coup in Venezuela? Is that what's going on here? Caroline Leavitt asked about whether or not the Trump administration is now talking about actual kinetic war with Venezuela, boots on the ground. and notice that she does not say no here. The 3DS warships that are being sent to Venezuela and there's 4 ,000 Marines on board. Are you looking at possibility of boots on the ground there? What I will say with respect to Venezuela, President Trump has been very clear and consistent.

1:07:35Emily Jashinsky:He's prepared to use every element of American power to stop drugs from flooding into our country and to bring those responsible to justice. The Maduro regime is not the legitimate government of Venezuela. It is a narco-terror cartel. And Maduro, it is the view of this administration, is not a legitimate president. He is a fugitive head of this cartel who has been indicted in the United States for trafficking drugs into the country. So this is sort of like a new gloss on the old regime change effort that has been brewing out of Miami since the 1960s, when the Cuban Revolution led to an outflowing of Cubans into Miami.

1:08:21They have been trying to overthrow governments around our hemisphere and using their power, using their influence in the U.S. government to try to do that.

1:08:34Emily Jashinsky:Before that, even. Yes. Really ramps up after Castro. But now they're saying it's actually because of drug trafficking. The irony being, of course, the Latin American right is as involved in drug trafficking as the Latin American left, if not more so. And certainly historically more so. I was going to say, you don't even have to say the Latin American right. You could actually just say the American right. Yeah. And so now the argument that Trump apparently is making is that we need to overthrow the Venezuelan government because of drugs. Like, how is it like, is this an attempt to shoehorn it somehow into America first?

1:09:18Because like nobody voted for a war with Venezuela. I don't know a single person other than actually some of my, maybe some of my family down in southern Florida who are Cubans. Yes. They would love to see a war down in Venezuela. And a lot of them are American citizens. But that doesn't quite count as America first. No offense, guys.

1:09:43Emily Jashinsky:There are plenty of Venezuelans who would love America to fuel a coup. Well, the right-wing Venezuelans in South Florida. Or the right-wing Venezuelans in Venezuela would love to have the United States fuel a coup and provide the kind of rocket fuel for a coup against... We've been doing that on and off for a very long time. And this is fundamentally what was supposed to be the distinction between the old Republican Party and the new Republican Party. This is the distinction between America first and America last, as Republicans now refer to the neoconservatives, is that even wars waged for what you considered a just cause against, for example, a legitimate dictator are no longer America's business if it is not in the vital strategic interest of the United States.

1:10:31Emily Jashinsky:if Americans themselves are not immediately, urgently, directly affected by this conflict. And that's supposed to be the distinction between America first and America last, that precisely the animating principle of the Cold War, which then morphed into the George W. Bush second inaugural speech about how it is in America's interest to promote democracy everywhere. This is exactly what America first is supposed to oppose. all of those or that entire ideological strain. And so, yes, I think the narco part of this is how you shoehorn it, both ideologically for somebody like Marco Rubio, who has, and many others on the right, who have sincerely reconsidered their prior commitments to democracy promotion abroad.

1:11:20Emily Jashinsky:Marco Rubio obviously was a supporter of USAID before he became this bitter enemy of USAID and an impassioned, like whatever you think of the guy, I can just tell you, having covered him for a long time, he has come to bitterly detest institutions like USAID. That is a sincere transformation. But you can more easily sort of justify this anti-communist neoconservatism or hemispheric strategy is what they would say, A, because it's in your hemisphere, it's not in the Middle East, B, because you could say, this is narco-terrorism that comes up to the United States. And so, yes, that's how you end up with also D4, battle plans for Mexico.

1:12:04Emily Jashinsky:This is a Rolling Stone report headline. Team Trump is actually drawing up attack plans for Mexico. And I bet you Team Trump loves this headline and is actually not running from this headline at all. Trump is eager to breach Mexico's sovereignty to attack cartels, officials say. Just don't call it an invasion. That is the subheading on the Rolling stone piece. So that is exactly how you make this argument fall under the banner of America First. And it's not going to fly with a lot of people. But those are people who are mostly like professional grassroots America First activists. Here's my theory.

1:12:35And you as a right-wing observer, tell me if I'm seeing this accurately. Trump, I think, does get animated by this whole thing where he's going to go after the cartels in Mexico. He's talked about that a bunch. strikes. Yep. So Rubio has never met a non-right-wing regime in our hemisphere that he hasn't wanted to overthrow. And so Rubio sees Trump saying, oh, I'm going to get the cartels in Mexico and then says to himself, oh, I'm going to then link Maduro to cartels. And then I'm going to piggyback what I really want to do, which is overthrow the regime in Venezuela. I'm going to piggyback it onto this Mexican thing.

1:13:25And the reason I think we can tell that this is clearly a Rubio policy, it's not just that it's wildly obvious. He's head of the State Department, who's wanted to do this kind of thing his entire life. But at the very beginning of the administration, if you remember, Rick Grinnell, a special envoy inside State Department, kind of roving around the world, was able to free some Americans who were held as political prisoners in Venezuela. He then was on track to free a whole bunch more in a deal that would have involved some sort of like lifting of sanctions on Sitco, which has an America first element to it that is quite obvious because Americans, as far as I understand, prefer gas prices to be lower than higher.

1:14:18And it's also a, like, let's put this Cold War stuff behind us. We've tried to overthrow you a whole bunch of times. It hasn't worked. We don't think that the elections that you held were free and fair, but we're not about messing with the internal politics of countries anymore. You're in power. So let's come to a deal. Rubio steps in and gets crosswise with Grinnell and ends up getting a political prisoner deal that gets some Americans and some legal residents, interestingly, including a guy who killed three people in Spain, gets them out of Venezuela, brings them back to the United States in exchange for the Venezuelans that we had sent to CICOT in El Salvador.

1:15:05getting patriated over to Venezuela. So his hardline effort that doesn't do anything about gas prices or Sitco or normalizing relations with a government in our backyard, that one triumphs. Then you get this$50 million bounty on Maduro's head. Then you get this, like, we're drawing up secret orders to do regime change. And then you get these 4 ,000 Marines and a nuclear-powered flotilla headed to Venezuela to saber rattle there, which...

1:15:37Emily Jashinsky:Right. And we have that VO. Yeah, we have that VO. We can rule. This is D1. This is the military. This is the Venezuelan military prep in response to the announcement. I think part of this also has to do with Rubio being boxed out from everything else. Like, Whitcoff is running the Gaza file. Trump is based in Whitcoff or running the Ukraine file, although now he's tasked, what, J.D. Vance and Rubio with taking Russia, Ukraine over the finish line. Rubio doesn't seem terribly engaged with Asia. Rubio really cares about the politics of the Caribbean and South and Central America. Well, I think that's, I mean, yeah.

1:16:14Emily Jashinsky:So what people were just watching on their screen is, according to reports, the Venezuelan government has mobilized just in the last couple of days, quote, more than 4 million militia troops, simulating response to reports of U.S. naval movements in the region. So that is from Time Magazine. Maduro said, we defend our seas, our skies, and our lands. We liberated them. We guard and patrol them. No empire will touch the sacred soil of Venezuela, nor should it touch the sacred soil of South America. So yeah, those three U.S. Navy missile destroyers deployed off the waters, deployed to the waters off Venezuela.

1:16:45Emily Jashinsky:And I think, Ryan, with Rubio and a lot of people on the right, you remember as well as anyone, Rubio recognizing Juan Guaido and a bunch of Republicans recognizing Juan Guaido as a legitimate president of Venezuela from their perspective. And part of this is that they have these actual personal relationships. And if you're Marco Rubio and you're sort of animating principle is looking at what your family, you know, like, you know, a lot of passionate Cuban anti-communists. South Florida is filled with like a bunch of rich Venezuelans who fled. But also Cuban. Americans like Marco Rubio. They've made common cause with the Cuban right, yeah.

1:17:35Emily Jashinsky:Right. But also like their identities have been built on this sort of animating anti-communism. And it's for deeply emotional, personal reasons. And so Rubio then brings with him decades of personal relationships with anti-communist activists. whether it's Juan Guaido or others in different countries. And so when you end up in a position of power, all of those people are knocking at your door. And not only do you agree with them, but you're talking to them all the time. You like them and you're trying to help them out and they're asking to help them out. So it just creates this swirl of action.

1:18:14Emily Jashinsky:That's almost like it's inertia. It's like you don't stop it because as soon as you're secretary of state, guess who's knocking on your door and wanting that coup that you've always supported when you were just a senator so i think a lot of it actually is it could be that but it's also the call coming from inside the house like rubio himself oh personally animated by this yeah yeah and but i was saying like the way that i think of it is even if marco rubio decided no america first is no more coups blah blah blah i don't even know that he could i honestly don't even know that he because the Cold War inertia on the right is so strong at this point that it would take, I mean, just a feat.

1:18:53It would, like, think of convincing a lifelong anti-communist Cuban to give up on Venezuela, like give up on the Venezuela coup. And it just doesn't underscore how insane it is that Leavitt was asked if there's going to be American boots on the ground as well, and she wouldn't say no. Right.

1:19:11Emily Jashinsky:And let's go to the New York Times report that the Rolling Stone report we had on the screen was confirming. The New York Times report was that President Trump has secretly signed a directive, quote, to the Pentagon to begin using military force against certain Latin American drug cartels that his administration has deemed terrorist organizations, according to people familiar with the matter. So Rolling Stone then takes that and talks about Mexico. And there's an argument from Trump people that there are certain Venezuelan gangs giving material support to Sinaloa and cartels in different places.

1:19:41Emily Jashinsky:But think about what that means. I mean, this is, as the New York Times says, the order provides an official basis for the possibility of direct military operations at sea and on foreign soil against cartels. U.S. military officials have started drawing up options for how the military could go after the groups. The people familiar with those conversations said, speaking in the condition of anonymity, to discuss the sensitive internal deliberation. So this is not just Venezuela. This is not just Mexico. This is the entire region. They've talked about Haitian gangs at this point. Like they are, this underscores what you were saying.

1:20:11Emily Jashinsky:And this is totally supportive of what you're saying is that this is, it's not like Marco Rubio being dragged kicking and screaming into fighting the Cold War hemispheric battles. This is Marco Rubio eagerly saying, I'm in charge now. We're doing some coups. Or maybe we're doing some coups. We're hoping to do some coups. And I think this could badly blow up in Rubio's face. Absolutely. If he gets his wish and actually gets some type of confrontation. This is not what anybody wants. Yep. Even people who, again, will agree with you on Maduro. Americans who will agree with you and say, this Maduro guy, he seems shady.

1:20:46Emily Jashinsky:Don't love him. Stop the narco trafficking. You think anybody's going to get that$50 million? I think you could get it. I feel like you're a pretty good kid. He's in Caracas. Because you came out right away. Immediately. I know that guy. I've seen him before. I interviewed some of his lieutenants. That's right. Big guest, Ryan, coming up the next block, who you helped us secure and we're going to talk to. Son of Marwan Barghouti, who was just, I would say assaulted, but he wasn't physically assaulted. Itamar Ben-Gavir went into Marwan Barghouti's prison cell and berated and threatened him. We're going to talk to Arab Barghouti, his son, next.

1:21:3516 years ago, I started working as a CNA in the hospital. I loved it. On the day I decided to enroll in the nursing program at Rasmussen University, it was afternoon, my 35th birthday. I was hanging out with a friend, and they had just questioned me what I was going to do with this next chapter of my life. I immediately had said, I want to go to nursing school. So I actually had contact information from an advisor at Rasmussen, contacted her, and actually ended up starting like three weeks later. My name is Cherish Adams, and I'm a Rasmussen University graduate. it. Learn more at rasmussen.edu.

1:22:31Locations, where your story starts. The washer won't start and the laundry's already piled to the ceiling. Hopping on grandappliance.com. Great idea. I heard they have next day delivery. Uh-huh. I'm seeing that too. And they have a bunch of GE options in stock. Oh, that's great. We've always had good luck with GE appliances. This one looks perfect. Scheduling for tomorrow. Gosh, Grand really makes it easy. Another crisis averted by the team at Grand Appliance. Visit GrandAppliance.com today. Grand Appliance, appliance experts since 1930. Over the weekend, video of Itamar Ben-Gavir, an extremist minister in the Israeli government, emerged showing him threatening the most, by far the most popular Palestinian politician in the territories, Marwan Barghouti.

1:23:22if we can roll this VO here. Ben Gavir visits Barghouti in his cell after there had not been an image published of Barghouti in many years. And he says to him here, you will not win. He who messes with the people of Israel, he who will murder our children, he who will murder our women, we will wipe them out. You need to know this throughout history. Joining us to talk about the fallout from this is his son, Arab Barghouti. Arab joins us now. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. So I said at the top of the show that people often say of your father, they'll say, you know, you'll often hear the defenders of Israel saying the problem with the Palestinians is, you know, there's no Nelson Mandela.

1:24:15You know, there's no leader who's going to unify the Palestinians and take them to a place of dignity and national liberation. And what a lot of people often say in response is that's not true. If there is one, his name is Marwan Borghuti, and he's been in prison for nearly two decades now. Can you tell us a little bit about who your father is for people who are not immediately familiar with the politics of the Palestinian territories? Yeah, I think that the most important thing for people to understand is that Marwan Prabhupada is the most popular leader in Palestine for a reason. It's for what he's given to the cause.

1:25:00My father has been struggling for Palestinians' rights for more than 50 years. It was exactly 50 years ago when he stood as a teenager in Israeli prisons at the age of 15. And that was the first, you know, activism work for him. And after that, he spent overall 30 years in prison, seven years in exile. And yet you will never hear him speak out of hatred. He has a purpose in his life, and this purpose is very simple, the freedom and living with dignity for all Palestinians. And it's very important for people to understand that my father supports political solutions. He supported the Oslo Accords in the 90s until he understood by the end of the 90s that we are dealing with a government, an Israeli government, that is not interested in a peaceful solution, that is not interested in a two-state solution.

1:25:59It's only interested in supremacy of the Israeli state over the whole land. And the proof of that is that within the Oslo Quotes, there were around 200 ,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank, illegal settlers by the international law, by the U.S. government and by every government in the international community. Yet the number of settlers, instead of decreasing, doubled by the end of the 90s within a few years. And that was a clear proof. With that, the Palestinian people had the right to go for the uprising, what's known as the Second Intifada. And my father was the face of that Intifada because he is a politician.

1:26:40And as a politician and as a parliament member, his role was to tell the people what to do. And he asked the people to protest against the illegal Israeli occupation that is not ending. And for that, he paid a steep price. They tried to assassinate him multiple times. And then they put him in prison. And they framed him as, you know, a terrorist, which is the easiest thing for the Israelis to call anyone a terrorist, which is something that all colonial power used to delegitimize the right of people of defending themselves. And since 2002, he's been in prison for that. Right. And I think one thing that's so kind of instructive about his life story is that he's a member of Fatah, which is the rival, you know, the almost existential rival sometimes of Hamas.

1:27:31And he has been a very public and vocal supporter of a two-state solution, whereas, you know, Hamas is not publicly supportive of the two-state solution. Yet, among Hamas, he appears to be the most, not just the Palestinians generally, but even people within Hamas. He's the most popular politician. You know, they've talked repeatedly about trying to get him released from prison as one of their top, if not their top priority. So what do you make of, you know, what does that tell you about where the politics are? That if Hamas is this supportive of somebody who is supportive of a two-state solution and has called for nonviolent, a kind of civil society-led unified Palestinian resistance.

1:28:29I think it tells me that the Palestinian people are in need and are really interested in having a peaceful solution. Everyone is always wondering if the Palestinian people want peace. Of course we want peace. If you look at the human suffering, more than 90 % of the human suffering that is happening in this land for the past 76 years is from the Palestinian side. I know that, you know, in U.S. media, it's always covered as if the Israelis are the only ones who are suffering. Everyone lost their minds on whenever there is an Israeli that is suffering. And we don't want that. My father, as you mentioned, has been very clear about his opposing to the targeting of civilians.

1:29:12If you look at his biggest political achievement, it's the political prisoners document. The prisoners document in 2006 was a historical document for multiple reasons. First of all, it gathered for the first time all Palestinian factions under one umbrella, and they signed the first ever document together that stated that the Palestinian state should be established on the 67 borders. The targeting of civilians is forbidden. The targeting of anyone outside of the 67 borders is forbidden as well. And he brought not even only Fatah and the PLO's parties. He also brought Hamas, Islamic Jihad and all Palestinian factions who signed on that document.

1:29:58And I think that's a huge achievement. But unfortunately, after that, and it was the cornerstone for the Palestinian government back then. But after that, unfortunately, the international community missed the opportunity when Hamas won the elections. And instead of helping Hamas to become a political party, they isolated Hamas. They stopped the funding for the PA until the PA collapsed, which caused a division within Palestine. We've been divided between Fatah and Hamas for the last 17 years, and it's, you know, between the West Bank and Gaza as well. And that was exactly the vision that Netanyahu always bragged about to the Israeli people, that look what I did.

1:30:42I divided them. I ended the two-state solution. I did this and that. And unfortunately, he's always respected within the American politics, even though he is the reason why we are suffering right now. Not only Palestinians, but I could argue if you're an Israeli, you should be opposing to the Netanyahu government. And the faces of Ben Gavir and Smotrich are a pure reflection of where the Israeli politics is headed.

1:31:11Emily Jashinsky:And on that note about Ben Gavir, I want to read this quote from one of your father's lawyers to NPR. He said, when I received the video, really, I didn't recognize Marwan. He lost a lot of weight and even his face is not what we were used to seeing. He said he had to consult with your father's wife to confirm that the gaunt figure in the video was her imprisoned husband. That's according to NPR. What was your reaction to seeing that video? I was shocked, to say the least. I thought that there is a ceiling towards the desperation and the ugliness of this Israeli government, but I think that they have no ceiling.

1:31:51I think that they are capable of breaking laws and breaking traditions in front of the whole world because they know that there is no accountability whatsoever for what they do. If we were in a just world, it would have been the opposite. Benkvir is the one who needs to be in prison because he's a convicted terrorist. He's someone who is calling for the genocide of the Palestinian people, and yet he practices his freedom when he comes to the U.S., which is shameful that someone like him is allowed to go to the U.S., but Palestinian children are now not allowed to go to the U.S., which tells you a lot about what we have to deal with.

1:32:32I think the video is shocking because I haven't seen my father in three years. It's very important for people to understand that this is a man who is a politician, a respected politician. He's recognized nationally and internationally. He was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his attempts and tries to bring people together, to unify the Palestinian people into one political vision that is accepted by the international community. And this point might be the reason why Netanyahu and his government are being very stubborn towards his release, because they know that someone like him who respects the international community, respects international law, is calling for the two-state solution, presents a threat way more than extremists, because extremists, they make it easy for him to cancel the Palestinian story overall.

1:33:30I think it's shameful that someone like him who holds a PhD in political science, who is an educator, he is a great father, and yet he is being treated like that. After October 7th, my father was sent to solitary confinement. He was assaulted at least three times, end of 23, March of 24, and September of 2024. The one in September of 2024 was the major one where three to four prison guards, they came to him. They dragged him into an area with no camera surveillance. They started beating him up until he passed out. He was bleeding on the floor for hours and he got injured in his ear, in his forehead, in his right arm.

1:34:15And he got some of his ribs broken. And this is the treatment that we are talking about. I want to make sure that people understand that my father does not represent himself only. He represents 10 ,000 Palestinian political prisoners who are going through the same treatment. We lost 76 Palestinian prisoners have been killed inside prison since October 7th. Many of them because of starvation, many of them because of beatings, many of them because of being left without any medical treatment. And no one talks about it. Everyone lost their minds because of the scenes of an Israeli captive in Gaza a month ago who looked losing weight and didn't look healthy.

1:34:57We want the same energy from everyone when they see Palestinians. It's time to humanize Palestinians and to stop the double standards. Yeah. And so interestingly, while Hamas has been publicly pushing for the release of your father, some of his people that you would suspect ought to be his allies in the PA have been much less vocal, to put it gently, about his release. It seems like Netanyahu is not the only one threatened by his potential release, that there are rivals inside the PA that may be as well. You saw some of them condemning Ben Gavir for visiting, which they should. But at the same time, they haven't.

1:35:46What's your understanding? I don't want to put words in your mouth. What's your understanding of what the kind of role of some of the top officials in the PA has been in terms of securing his freedom? Well, I think it's not a secret that the PA is not doing well overall. I think that the PA is in trouble because they don't have, unfortunately, we feel that they are being helpless. Because, you know, the genocide that is happening in Gaza is not only impacting the people of Gaza, but also in the West Bank as part of the collective punishment policy of the Israelis. And in the West Bank, we have, you know, many people who, thousands of people who have been ethnically cleansed from their homes in the north, in Tulkarim, in Eint-Shams, in Hebron and in many other places.

1:36:35And we didn't see any reaction by the PA. In internal politics, you'll always have competition. And it's very normal that some of them, they feel threatened. But I refuse to believe that any Palestinian, regardless of who they are, don't want my father to be released. My father is a great political force for the Palestinian people. He represents a unifying figure that everyone respects. And he represents a great opportunity for the international community to rescue the two-state solution. And I think that the PA needs to be around that. He's a Fatah leader. He's a member of the Central Committee of Fatah.

1:37:17and he's a proud member there. And, you know, our generation, I think, are not big fans of how Fatah has become with the corruption and with many other issues and the integration with the PA. But I really believe that a strong PA, the body of the PA needs to be reformed and the institutions need to be stronger. And people like my father and many others who are in prison as leaders can play a great role in doing so. And last question for me. I'm sure a number of people watching at this point say, well, this sounds great. He opposes attacks on civilians. He supports a two-state solution. He's a unifying popular figure.

1:38:01But Israel says that he was responsible for killing civilians, and that's why he's in prison. Can you address that viewer? Of course. I think, thank you for talking about this point, because this point is part of what we call the character assassination against Malwa Marghouti that has been practiced for the last two decades. If you go to the trial of my father, it was a kangaroo trial. If you go to the details, the judge of his trial called him a terrorist even before in the early stages of his trial, called him that he's someone who targets civilians, which is something that is, of course, not true.

1:38:48If you go to the evidence, we have legal teams, international legal teams who did a full analysis and they concluded that it would be impossible to say that Marwan Barghouti has been given a fair trial. Marwan Barghouti has been, they tried to assassinate him three separate times in 2001 before they brought him to prison. If you want to assassinate someone before you bring them to trial, that gives you the message that they are sending. The fear that was within the Israeli government, they didn't want an inspirational Palestinian leader that could give hope to the Palestinian people that we have hope in having our own state.

1:39:26And their answer for that is, let's try to assassinate him. When they fail to assassinate him, let's put him in prison and we can easily label him as a terrorist. and all the Western media, of course, who are puppets to the Israeli government, will start using the word terrorist whenever they mention his name. The word terrorist has been used to delegitimize, as I said, people like us, defending ourselves against oppression and against occupation and against the horrible Israeli actions within the Palestinian cause. The last thing I want to say, if you go back and study the history of the Israeli trial system, first of all, they have two laws.

1:40:11If you're Palestinian at 16, you're an adult. If you're an Israeli in the same West Bank, illegal settler at 18, you're an adult. Other things is that they make kids when they are 13 and 14 sign on Hebrew statements without understanding what they are, without having a lawyer, without having a guardian present. They put, as we speak right now, there are 3 ,600 Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons without trial, without charge. And they are there under administrative detention, which is illegal by international law. I mean, you're talking about a trial that has a conviction rate against Palestinians of 99.7%.

1:40:53So what credibility does that trial or court have on Palestinians? I think that people need to go, need to see and, you know, review the trial that my father had. It's full of faults. It was intentional to fabricate that he targeted civilians so they can cancel his name forever because they knew his influence within the Palestinian people.

1:41:18Emily Jashinsky:I was going to say, I do have one final question, actually. Last point on that and then your question. Yeah, for people who are still confused about that, there were at the time Palestinian factions and leaders who supported attacks on civilians. But they were very public about it. This was an open debate with inside, you know, inside the resistance. So the idea that you would do it but not – like denied is – it's like no. Like the people who supported tax on civilians were open about why they did it and what the purpose was and why it was justified, et cetera. He was opposed to that camp. But anyway, go ahead.

1:41:53Emily Jashinsky:Well, no, so I was actually going to ask about that debate right now after, you know, let's say there's a ceasefire, some type of negotiation. How optimistic or not optimistic are you that leaders like your father will rise out of the ashes of Gaza at this point? Because the desperation has to be on a completely different level right now in 2025. So what does the future look like? I think that every Palestinian's priority right now is stopping the genocide in Gaza. This is the main priority. This is the most important thing. And we don't want to distract people into looking at other issues. The second thing is, of course, I am positive that my father is going to be released.

1:42:38I don't know when. Of course, the negotiations are very complicated. But, you know, my father used to always tell me that hopelessness is a privilege that we Palestinians don't have. And I do think that we shouldn't feel hopeless because of what's happening. I want to remind everyone that, you know, if you look at the South African model, for example, in the 80s, within a few years, no one expected things to change that quickly. And I think that I see the change. I want to send a message to the pro-Palestinians around the world and the pro-justice. We shouldn't call them pro-Palestinians. They are pro-justice.

1:43:14And I want to send them a message that I know that things seem as if they're not moving in the right direction. I know that things seem as if they are depressing with what we hear from governments, from officials, from the Israeli government itself. But I think that we need to keep the pressure. We owe this to the Palestinian children that are being slaughtered. We don't want their blood to be for nothing. We want to end this by establishing a Palestinian independent state. and I really hope that we can celebrate with my father a free Palestine sooner than later and maybe one day you can meet with him and see what a great human being he is.

1:43:57As I said, what I want people to understand about him is that he's a great father. He has six grandchildren that he's never met before. his, you know, I want him to fulfill the promise that he gave my mother more than 40 years ago when he told her that, listen, when he proposed to her, he told her that I'm not going to be a doctor or an engineer. I'm going to be a politician. And in Palestine, if you're a politician, you're either going to be killed, arrested, or become a corrupted leader, unfortunately. So he knew that his path was going to be very hard. But I promise you that when Palestine is free, we will live a normal life with our children, with our grandchildren.

1:44:40And that's the promise that we're all waiting for as a family. And he represents thousands of families who are going through the same Palestine and they don't get covered, unfortunately, in the media. Well, we look forward to that day. Ira Bargouti, thank you so much for joining us. Very much appreciate it. Thank you.

1:44:58Emily Jashinsky:Big news on the tariff front. we can go ahead and put the CNBC article up on the screen. The headline here is Trump expands 50 percent steel and aluminum tariffs to include 407 additional product type CNBC further reports. The new report categories include everyday items such as car parts, plastics and specialty chemicals. Economists warn that the new levies could further strain the U.S. supply chain and raise prices for consumers. You can if we put the next tarot sheet up on the screen, you can see some of the things here that are covered in it. So the Secretary of Commerce, Undersecretary of Commerce for Industry and Security said, today's actions expands the reach of the steel and aluminum tariffs and shuts down avenues for circumvention, supporting the continued revitalization of the American steel and aluminum industries.

1:45:48Emily Jashinsky:So they say it covers wind turbines, mobile cranes, bulldozers, rail cars, furniture, compressors, pumps, and hundreds of other products. CNBC is reporting this morning, their headline after the markets opened is, stocks are little changed as investors weigh retail earnings await Fed minutes. And Ryan, I don't think this is surprising news, but it's definitely big news. I mean, this is how - I think it's a little surprising. I think it did catch people a little bit off guard. We can put this next one. Jason Miller, a supply chain expert, calculated that the latest, and this is a list of the things, the latest list brings, adds another like $320 billion worth of steel and aluminum products are now affected.

1:46:38And he's talking about a 50 % tariff on them. That is a huge amount of money. We're talking$160 billion. That is basically sucked out of the consumer economy there. So it's$160 billion in increased costs that will go to, as Trump loves to say, paying down the debt. Now, if you look at this list here, you know, car parts, shovels, any construction equipment that has any steel or aluminum in it, as you said, tractors, gearboxes. Heat pumps. Like, basically, if you are in farming or construction or manufacturing, your costs are going to go up as a result of this, you know, quite significantly. And so the goal here is to have an aluminum and steel industry that is completely kind of contained here in the United States.

1:47:44I don't there isn't really a whole lot of policy to go along with this to make it so that we have that industry that can then serve these. You know can make all of these different products in the meantime. Most people who are doing manufacturing or farming or construction. They say everybody almost who's doing manufacturing farming or construction here in the United States is going to have their prices go their costs go up. And then they're going to have to eventually raise prices. So the idea here behind the tariffs is that we're going to support American manufacturing. The policy is to make it more expensive to do American manufacturing.

1:48:32Because, you know, let's say you make knives and there was this company going around. It's like, oh, wait, we thought we made all our knives here in the United States. a lot of our suppliers are overseas. So while we manufacture it here, we produce it here, we have a factory, we have a bunch of people working, the kind of thing we want here in the United States, we do get some of our supplies from overseas. And wow, with these tariffs, it's now gonna be much more expensive for us to do our manufacturing. Which then, and so the foreign goods then, don't have those extra costs in their supply chain, they'll just pay the tariff when they compete, when they are imported and compete against the American-made one.

1:49:21So it's not obvious that, like, it's even going to give an advantage to American manufacturing at this point because so much of it is overseas. And also, building a steel and aluminum industry domestically here, it requires you know multi-billion dollars worth of investment right are you going to do that if you're not sure what the tariffs are going to be next thursday well yeah right that's a i think

1:49:51Emily Jashinsky:a really key point well it's an important point because if you're somebody like me and probably you too who is supportive of having some measure of protectionism of american industry um the The question of like Trump's direction and Trump's process, like the distinction between direction and process is an important one because the direction can be correct and the process can be so clumsy that the cost outweighs the benefit. And on that note, I actually still think that the jury is out on all of this and that's a larger conversation. But tractors are covered in this. Guess what was announced yesterday?

1:50:25Emily Jashinsky:John Deere announces hundreds of layoffs. This is a Newsweek headline. Legacy tractor maker John Deere has announced layoffs at three Midwestern facilities as the company grapples with declining sales and the effects of tariffs on its bottom line. The struggling ag economy continues to impact orders for John Deere equipment, the company said in a media statement regarding the layoffs. This is a challenging time for many farmers, growers, and producers and directly impacts our business in the near term. So those Midwestern - Killing our farmers and then killing manufacturers. The industry. Yeah, right.

1:50:57Emily Jashinsky:So that then becomes a question. As Republicans were heading up for recess, I talked to a bunch of them at like a town hall and asked them, you know, why is Trump underwater on the economy? Why are polling why is polling showing him underwater on the economy? And the answer I got is that the effects of the big, beautiful bill haven't hit the economy yet. And that's why we did the bill when we did. They say so that by the time the midterms roll around. Well, first of all, they'll say they did it because the tariffs have already been implemented and it was urgent. But then by the time the midterms roll around, the effects of the bill on the economy will be felt by families and communities.

1:51:32Emily Jashinsky:And what that means in terms of the tariff discussion is that they want to see this quasi-industrial policy from the one big beautiful bill, write-offs, exemptions, all of that stuff, fueling growth instead of creating hemorrhaging. And when you look at John Deere closing three Midwestern facilities on the same day that these steel and aluminum tariffs are expanded, that's a flashing red light for Republicans who are counting on the one big beautiful bill to augment a wild and crazy tariff policy that feels like a roller coaster for all of these corporations. in addition to the already sort of significant, I mean, everybody would tell you a 10 % baseline tariff and then all of these like 50 % steel and aluminum tariffs, everybody would tell you, you and I would concede.

1:52:23Emily Jashinsky:That is a shock to the economy. The argument is that it's a necessary shock to the economy. It is a shock to the economy nonetheless. What this then looks like is it's, And in addition to the shock, you have this extra layer of Trumpian uncertainty that is basically at a certain point an unforced error. Yeah, and I wonder, and maybe I'm too cynical here, but I doubt it. I wonder if in come May of 2026, Trump's going to drop all of these tariffs, which would then lead to price drops, reduction in inflation, things would be cheaper heading into the midterms. You could imagine a deeply cynical politician who's like, I would love to be able to toggle interest rates so that I can juice the economy in the six months leading into the mid terms of the presidential election.

1:53:21But I can't do that because I still don't control the Fed. But I do control tariff policy, which I can gradually ramp up to be a really dominant force in the economy. And then when I feel like it, I can dial it back. and then a bunch of stuff gets imported for cheaper. Prices come down.

1:53:43Emily Jashinsky:Dollars shaken. Everything's, and people are feeling good until November. They vote. And then in December, you slap all the tariffs back on for 18 months. Right. And then do it again for the next election. I mean, that's the only thing that I can see even making any sense at this point. And I don't think that's crazy, to be honest, But then again, that's the environment that makes people or different countries, to the extent they can, start hedging their bets with China or start hedging their bets by nearshoring, offshoring in different ways and just saying, well, this is just not worth it. Just raising prices in different ways.

1:54:26Emily Jashinsky:This is the uncertainty. We don't know what happens with the next president. And now the precedent has been established that presidents can, you know, that precedent has existed for a while, but Trump has taken it to another scale, declare a national emergency and basically circumvent Congress completely on tariff questions, not just, you know, emergency tariffs on China like we'd seen in the past, but let's just go crazy on it. So that precedent has now been established. What happens after Trump? We don't really know. Yeah. And aluminum and steel are also extremely energy intensive. and Trump just stripped like a trillion plus dollars of energy subsidies out of the economy while China is massively outpacing us on energy production.

1:55:13So yeah, we want everything and we want to build nothing and do nothing. And let's see how that goes.

1:55:20Emily Jashinsky:Let's see. We'll be here. We'll be paying attention to it. Breakingpoints.com if you want to hear our cynical takes. While you still have some money, you should use it for a premium subscription. He's going to tariff podcasts pretty soon. Well, I mean, certainly, you know, podcast equipment would be covered with this. That I support. Yes. Well, yeah, we're already in. So now we need a big moat. Yeah, we're building the tariff wall around. Yep. So great day for us. But thank you, everybody, for tuning in. Again, breakingpoints.com. That's where you can go to get a premium subscription. We will be back on Friday.

1:55:59Emily Jashinsky:Normal schedule tomorrow, Crystal and Sager? Yeah. All right. So we'll see you on Friday. As a reminder, you get the second half of that show if you're a subscriber. But we will be holding down the fort with Crystal. Maybe Sager will join on Friday. We'll see. Otherwise, everyone have a great day. Crystal and Sager will be back here tomorrow.

1:56:2916 years ago, I started working as a CNA in the hospital. I loved it. On the day I decided to enroll in the nursing program at Rasmussen University, it was afternoon, my 35th birthday. I was hanging out with a friend, and they had just questioned me what I was going to do with this next chapter of my life. I immediately had said, I want to go to nursing school. So I actually had contact information from an advisor at Rasmussen, contacted her, and actually ended up starting like three weeks later. My name is Cherish Adams, and I'm a Rasmussen University graduate. Learn more at rasmussen.edu.

1:57:26Go to lifemd.com slash iHeart. Across America, money is being abandoned. By taking a few seconds to check lift before your next ride, you can give money a better home inside your wallet. Save the money. Check lift. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.