8/4/26: Flock Camera Revolt, China Gives Iran Weapons Amid US Decline

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2:09So the mass spread of FLOC cameras across the country has increasingly become an issue of deep concern to Americans. There's one organization that has sprung up called Deflock, which you can go to their website And you can see a map of where all the Flock cameras are located. They are doing sort of standard First Amendment advocacy against the spread of this surveillance technology. The Flock CEO was asked about this group and he labeled them as a terrorist organization. Let's take a listen. You've got organizations like the ACLU and the EFF who take an above a board approach to fight for their point of view.

2:48And thankfully, we live in a beautifully democratic, capitalistic country where we can fight in court. And I have a lot of respect for those groups because they have reasonable debates and we follow the law. And then unfortunately, there's terroristic organizations like DFLOC, whose primary motivation is chaos. They are closer to Antifa than they are anything else. And that, I think, is unfortunate because we don't want chaos or I don't want chaos. I like law and order. I like a society that has a bedrock of safety. So for those groups, I think it's just disappointing that they haven't chosen a more constructive mannerism to try to get what they want, which they have a right to have.

3:25But that's why we have a democratically elected process. Right. Like I we're not forcing flock on anyone. Elected officials know that as a community, you want to be safe. I mean, this is complete insanity, Sagar. But it also fits into the rhetorical and legal framework that the Trump admin has set up. It's not an accident that he named text Antifa here because they've used NSPM 7 and other tools to try to go after these left wing groups that they label as terrorists. And so he adopts that language to try to, you know, put deflock in the same category as these other groups that have been identified by the Trump administration as terrorists.

4:03But literally, you can go to their website. The tagline says, welcome to deflock and open source project mapping license plate readers. Like, that's just a basic service and advocacy group that is, you know, being provided to the public so that they can push back on what's happening in their communities where they've had very little say. Yeah, I think this is absolutely insane. And it's pretty obvious that this CEO, first of all, D-Flock is a nonprofit organization. So if you're going to say that it's, you know, terroristic or whatever, frankly, they should be able to sue if they want to because, you know, you can't just be saying.

4:36Genuinely. I mean, like, that's an actual term which has meaning. It's a nonprofit organization which is open source, which allows people just to flag where Flock cameras actually are. By that definition, Waze is a terrorist organization because it lets you flag where police officers are whenever they're trying to speed trap you. So let's start with that. The second thing, and I said this, I got such an angry message from a right-wing friend of mine where I said I genuinely would trust a place like China or Singapore to surveil me and to master avail me than I would flock. And I'm about to show you why, is because it is a for-profit company with very sketchy ability to actually hold to account and is, by the way, not wholly bought in by our democratic system, also with a profit motive.

5:28Okay? So you put those three things together, and oh, lo and behold, you have problems that befall all American institutions. Let's go and put this next one up here on a screen. In one California town, Flock misread license plates in 71 % of the alerts that it sent to police. Summer of 2024, a police called a man to discuss a persistent problem with his license plate. The city's AI-powered license plate reader, made up by Flock, had repeatedly misread the plate. Six times, they had sent alerts to the Roseville Police Department identifying the vehicle as stolen or used in a felony crime. police could see that the flock software kept confusing nine for an eight the car owner said he would take off his license plate cover and soon after it happened again so this guy is getting harassed by the police because the ai license plate reader is not you know is not reading his plate correctly now again if you're going to pay this company all this money you're going to mount all these cameras in public and make it so that we're basically eroding all public privacy you You would at the very least say, could it work?

6:33And yet, in this case, it's not working. Oh, second one is that we also know about institutional misuse and abuse. This also happened many times with the NSA with their warrantless spying program. Let's put this one up here on the screen. How rogue officers turned a nationwide camera network into a tool for stalking. So, for example, they interview a woman, Marcy Bakley. she couldn't understand how her ex-boyfriend always seemed to know where she was. When she went to buy groceries, he would text her about it, sometimes within minutes, despite he was working 15 miles from her home as police chief in a small town in Atlanta.

7:09One day in 2024, when he incorrectly suspected that she'd gone to see a man against his witches, he messaged her, I didn't think he would slip up. She began to feel like she was constantly being watched. She installed cameras around her home and on her patio to see if he was stalking her. She bought hidden camera detector three times in desperation she drove her car to a mechanic's shop. Then one day she pressed him for answers, and he said he was using his flock access as a police officer. Quote, like thousands of other law enforcement agencies, his police force can follow cars spotted by flock's sprawling network of AI roadside cameras, which record passing license plate into a mappable database that officers can then search while investigating a crime.

7:53However, they then note that it's obviously rife for abuse. Now, to be clear, he was arrested on charges of stalking harassment and license plate misreader abuse. But as you can see very clearly, is that there are no actual checks within the system from stopping these small town sheriffs or any of these other places with very little accountability to be able to use it for whatever ends that they want. And I'm not, you know, against the police or any of that. But I do think it's very, very clear that if we're going to have a system like this and then spread it very oddly with no real like federal government oversight, keep it to, you know, contracts with localities and with states, that is clearly to the advantage of flock the company, which is way less accountable, as I said, to some nationally organized system with, at the very least, you could have some ability to have democratic checks on this ability.

8:54And it also just gets to the point of these cameras went up. We have no say about it at all. We're all just like, okay, they're here. Better deal with it. And think about how terrifying this was for this woman. He had looked up her tags and those of her teenage daughter more than 600 times, more than 600 times. By the way, You can go to have I been flocked and do a search that aggregates police search logs to see if your license plate has been searched. So at least that public tool is available to you. And I think it's no accident that the CEO of Flock finds this sort of, you know, open access information to be such a threat to their business model.

9:37because you do start to see the public, the more they become aware of this, the more horrified they are by it and the more sort of organic pushback there is to it. But lest you think that this was a one-off case with this, you know, one bad apple who was using the technology, misusing the technology to stalk his ex and her teenage daughter, authorities have charged or accused at least 50 law enforcement officers of using this for unauthorized purposes. You had one dude who was tracking an ex to see if she was going to an abortion clinic. You had all kinds of stalking to see if they were with a new man or stalking the new man to see what he was up to.

10:16Threats, abuse, horrifying, horrifying stuff that is going on with this. And to your point, there's really no laws around it. And you think the police departments are going to just on their own make sure that there's, you know, limited use of this technology? No, they want a free hand to be able to do whatever they want with it so that they can deploy it in the ways that they, you know, think are going to be useful and easy for them. It really is sort of like crack cocaine to these police departments because even that one in California where they found the license plates were being misread 71 % of the time, you might look at that and go, this seems like it might be more trouble than it's worth.

10:52Maybe they'll just get rid of it. They're not getting rid of it because in the certain cases, they find it useful. And so once this technology becomes embedded, even when it performs extremely poorly, even when it causes all sorts of civil rights violations and privacy violations, it is very difficult to dislodge because the police departments like it. They enjoy it. And just one other piece here in terms of, you know, all right, so what's the big deal if they misidentify the license plate? Who really, you know, who really cares? Okay, it's kind of awkward for the police departments, et cetera.

11:27Maybe there's misuse, an expenditure of resources that they wouldn't need. Put D4 up on the screen. Just think about what this would look like for you and your family. So this is a guy who test drives vehicles. Like that's his job. He like test drives vehicles and then he writes up reviews of them for this website called The Drive. Well, because of a sort of technical glitch and error in the way that they were tracking these test drive vehicles, the vehicle that he was test driving, this very expensive one, was flagged as having been stolen. So police in this town tracked him and his family for days.

12:03They had all this video recording of him, you know, going about his life, going to the grocery store, et cetera. He and his wife pull into a Coles parking lot. Multiple police vehicles, like, race up, surround them, pin them in. He's freaking out. He's like, what is going on here? And, you know, responds in a way that sort of deescalates the situation. Fortunately, these cops listened to him and believed what he had to say. One of them, luckily, was actually familiar with the drive and was like, OK, this is legit. Because you can imagine this sounds like bullshit. Like, no, no, I just test drive these cars for a living, these expensive cars for a living.

12:37You could see how that would sound like bullshit. And they told him, hey, you're lucky that this happened here because if it happened in the city, they would have come at you guns drawn. Like, that's what we're talking about here. This is complete insanity. And to the point about the rising political consciousness and why some of this just information being accessible to the public is creating a real problem for them, you can see some response on both the right and the left as politicians try to position themselves as caring about these issues in local communities. Byron Donald's down in Florida, we can put D5 up on the screen.

13:12He is sounding the alarm about flock surveillance cameras. He's saying that they're impinging on constitutional rights. He's calling for a full pause. And I took note of this. Francesca Hong, who I think, you know, we talked earlier about the whole cancel Thanksgiving situation. There's a lot to say about that. In terms of why she's leading in the Democratic primary and certainly has a shot in the general election is because of the range of issues that she has really chosen to focus on, among them data centers. And she gives a mention to Flock Cameras in this new ad that she just put out. Let's take a listen to that.

13:48I'm here at the failed Foxconn manufacturing site. This is now a Microsoft AI data center plant. Just like in 2018 with Foxconn, Republicans will sell out our communities again. I think we can say this is, we can say this is the eighth wonder of the world. Flock cameras, poison groundwater, and eyesores that don't create future good jobs. Two billion dollars in tax breaks that you and I will be paying for. I'm the only candidate in this race to call for a moratorium on the construction of new AI data centers. We can't afford to be Foxconn again. The people deserve a say. So there you see the mention of flop cameras being pulled into this broader issue set around, you know, pushing back on data centers, tapping into the whole Foxconn situation in Wisconsin as well.

14:39But I took note of she was the first Democratic candidate that I'd seen put this in, you know, any of the ads. And so you ask yourself, why has she quickly skyrocketed to the top of the Democratic primary leaderboard? And, you know, it's basically fait accompli that she's going to be the Democratic nominee against some very prominent establishment-backed candidates that she was up against. And I think it's because she really has had her finger on the pulse of some of these bubbling issues that are really also cross-ideological. Right. And that's why we show the Byron Donaldson thing. I mean, very likely to be the next governor of Florida.

15:12He is saying that you need a full pause. We've had a number, actually, of GOP representatives very recently who have been talking about Flock. I mean, it's very obvious because at the high level, like I said, there's no federal regulation on AI license plate readers. It's all state and local. The company is getting fantastically rich. These have come across the entire nation. You can just go to deflock and actually look at the map of where they all are. Very likely it's already in your community or you drive one. At least unwittingly, you have at a minimum in the last few months and you have no say in this whole, like, have I have been flocked?

15:50That's only because of FOIA information that you're able to see. But there's no actual regulatory body on whether this is okay, that we're outsourcing all this info completely to a private company, which is now saying that if you track where they are, that you're somehow a terrorist. So I think that the political dynamics around this are very important. Anybody should be deeply concerned about this ability of a private company to just come in, partner with the localities of which there's very little insight, regulation, or even knowledge of the community itself. They come up everywhere. And then, you know, the justification is, is that it's vital in helping solve crime.

16:25And I think that's probably true. But there's also a significant downside we're seeing already with the abuse, with the misery. There needs to be the ability for the public to have some sort of say to keep things actually accountable. And it's become, I mean, I've seen this spread like wildfire in terms of people who are upset about this, you know, general feeling, not just with data centers, but with the cameras of being mass surveilled all the time. imagine COVID if this type of technology had been as widespread at that time. They're like, oh, you got a ticket. You left your house during lockdown, something like this.

16:59It's so, so easy. I mean, think about what the state of California would have done in the middle of a lockdown if they had this type of technology and how they easily could have made it and integrated it into their enforcement regime. If you're worried about immigration, yeah, well, oh, you're an activist and you happen to be in the area, here you go. Here's a ticket. Beds are coming to your door. And frankly, I think that's already happening. I was just reading a Wall Street Journal piece as of this morning. But this is what enables it. This is the reason. And this is exactly why I think most people at the very least should demand a hell of a lot more regulation and safeguard as opposed to just allowing private companies, states, and locality just put these things up wherever we live, basically with no real notice, I think, to all of us.

17:41And so, yeah. Well, and Sagar, you're making an important point. point here, which is, while it may help solve certain types of crimes, it's also opening up an entirely new vector of potential criminality, as you can see with all of this stalking and harassment that is going on here. So, yeah, I mean, in kind of a similar way with the immigration crackdown, where on the one hand, you could say, oh, this is law and order. On the other hand, you saw the chaos it created and all the criminal behavior from the ICE agents in the street, which just went completely unpunished. You can see a similar nexus here where, yes, on the one hand, it may make it easier to track some of the bad guys.

18:20On the other hand, it enables a whole other series of bad guys to do things that are really horrifying and terrifying and infringe on our liberties. There's always a balance in a society between, you know, this sort of like authoritarianism, but, you know, maybe the crimes get solved versus people having some liberty that has to be struck. And I think most Americans are saying this goes way too far in the direction of just a total surveillance state. Yeah, because it comes down to enforcement. You know, it comes down to, and you could tune it in multiple different directions. If you are in Seattle, people are literally smoking crack on the bus.

18:56But if you speed, you're gonna get a ticket. That's insane. That is a complete insane. Now let me do the other way. So I just talked about the lowest common denominator of society, a literal crackhead or a fentanyl head. Well, let's switch it. If you are one of these people who Trump just pardoned for a multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme, right, and you get out of prison, but I run a red light and I get a$25 ticket, that's bullshit too. So that's what it comes down. There's no consistent enforcement. It comes down to run of the middle, actual everyday citizen is dually screwed. And there's this type of system where you have a lot of compassion.

19:34You know, here, you got a federal government on the side of the ultra rich. But if you're just a normal everyday guy and you're just, you know, you're not a fentanyl addict, you're not an ultra rich billionaire, you're the person actually who has the most consistent law enforcement directed at you. And I think that's what is wrong with our country. So anyway, some free law and order discourse there for some of the candidates that are out there. All right, let's get to Japan. Sixteen years ago, I started working as a CNA in the hospital. I loved it. On the day I decided to enroll in the nursing program at Rasmussen University, it was afternoon, my 35th birthday.

20:08I was hanging out with a friend, and they had just questioned me what I was going to do with this next chapter of my life. I immediately had said, I want to go to nursing school. So I actually had contact information from an advisor at Rasmussen, contacted her, and actually ended up starting like three weeks later. My name is Cherish Adams, and I'm a Rasmussen University graduate. Learn more at rasmussen.edu.

20:53Apple Vacations, where your story starts. Ugh, hon, the ice cream has turned to soup. I think the fridge is finally dead. Hopping on grandappliance.com. Great idea. They were awesome with the Samsung Ranger microwave we bought last year. Oh, they have matching Samsung in stock and next day delivery. Let me see. Oh, yeah, that looks perfect. I hope we get the same delivery crew. Those guys were awesome. Agree. Total pros. Another crisis averted by the team at Grand Appliance. Appliance experts since 1930. Joining us now is Daniel Bessner. He is the author of the Imperious Realism Substack, the author of Imperious Realism, the book, which we can show all of you, and the host of the American Prestige podcast.

21:42That's a record intro here for guests. But again, someone I've corresponded with a few times and who really caught my interest with some of his writing and some of his analysis. So thank you very much for joining us, Dan. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Really happy to be here. Absolutely. So you've been really lasered in on this theory of imperious realism, which you've developed, kind of the fallout of post-Cold War liberalism and the rise of a new multipolar world. One of the topics that we cover pretty extensively here on our show, just to link it to today's news, let's put this one up here, for example, on the screen about Iran is said to get some Chinese shoulder-launched missile systems in weeks.

22:23made me think of some of your analysis as exactly the same type of tactics the United States undertook during the Cold War against the Soviet Union. But, you know, do more generally maybe give the audience an idea of your framework here around imperialism, what it means for the United States and the future of the world and connected here to the Iran situation. Absolutely. So I think there's something interesting happening in how Americans understand their role in the world. and what I would term the American empire, which is this notion that there's really no changing it, that there's really no way to transform the American empire to transform geopolitics.

23:04And I think this is a transformation from how Americans understood their world role as recently as the 1990s, when someone like Madeleine Albright could say on the Today Show that the United States sees further than other countries, which gives us license to act in the world. I think the failures of the global war on terror and also the end of what I would call mass politics, the inability of people to actually affect foreign policy and economic policy and a number of other issue areas, has engendered this cynicism about American power. But this idea that we must nevertheless act in the world, but then we feel guilty about it and don't think that anything could really change.

23:42So the way that I think about imperialist realism is that it's easier to imagine the end of the world than it is to imagine the end of the American empire. Yeah, I mean fascinating kind of to put it in that perspective. But just break it down more towards the path towards multipolarity and how it fits within that framework. Sure. So I think this is why it actually matters because I think that the world is becoming a more multipolar world. The United States was uniquely powerful both after World War II where it controlled something like half of the world's manufacturing base, had an atomic monopoly that is a monopoly of atomic weapons, really had the world's only real air force.

24:21And the more we learn about the Soviet Union, particularly in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, the more we learn that it was actually incredibly weak, much weaker than Americans could have really known at the time. And then, of course, after the end of the Cold War, the United States was the last remaining superpower. It was really the global hegemon. This was the so-called unipolar moment, which Charles Krauthammer termed that Charles Krauthammer basically identified. But I think that two things have happened in the last 25 years. One, the United States squandered its global power. You see with the global war on terror and just failure after failure there, whether you're looking at Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan, just total disintegration of American foreign policy there.

25:03And then you also have the Great Recession, which I think has really damaged the United States' global position. And so you have those two things coupled with the quote-unquote rise of China, but really the reemergence of China as a major global power, which it was for most of human history, and also the reemergence of Russia as a global power. So you have this new multipolar world. And just to wrap up here, why this is important is that this is precisely the moment where we need to imagine alternatives to American global empire because this alternative is going to happen. The question is not a matter of if but when.

25:37And the real issue for us in this country is how we manage this transition to multipolarity. Is it going to be violent or is it going to be not violent? Daniel, talk a little bit about the shift away from even rhetorical support for the quote unquote liberal international order. So for my entire life, you know, all of our wars and interventions have been framed in these liberal international values. We all know the ways that the American empire has fallen short of that rhetoric, but the rhetoric was deployed. We're going to bring freedom to the Iraqis, et cetera, et cetera. And now between the genocide in Gaza and the attacks on Iran and the enabling of any number of continued Israeli war crimes, there's really not even a sort of gesture towards that liberal internationalism.

26:24You could see it also with just kidnapping Maduro and saying, we're going to take Venezuela. There's no wrapping it in, oh, human rights, and he was a bad guy. It's all just like, no, we want their stuff, and we're going to take it, and we're going to be overt about it. You write that this is effectively a sign of the times and that we're moving into an era where no longer will there be this sort of overarching ideological frameworks that are used to justify actions in the world. So talk a little bit about what that shift, how that shift is occurring and what it means? Absolutely. And it's a really important question.