9/11/25: Charlie Kirk Assassinated In Utah

27:05At least that's the official story of how that all went down. So they like to get the public involved if they don't have a suspect in custody so that people all over the place can be looking and calling in tips and trying to assist in this investigation. Right now, as far as we know, there is nothing to go on. Yeah, I just saw it took about 12 to 24 hours for some of that information. So we're still, you know, in that time frame, obviously. But I mean, I think, again, it's just it's extraordinary. And it does tell us at least something that the person wanted to create this high profile spectacle.

27:43They wanted to get away. And, you know, I've been thinking kind of racking my brain for comparisons. And in modern American history, it's there really are none. I mean, you know, Charlie and you could kind of call him whatever you want. He was a conservative activist. He was an influencer. He's a YouTuber, you know, and that's part of why I think, you know, so many of us who also do very similar jobs and participate in some similar events are so shaken and like struck by it. It's because everyone has participated, at least in some form, in something like this. For more modern comparisons, I mean I'm not saying that they're one-to-one, but obviously we had – in the 1960s, we had the assassinations of people like Malcolm X or MLK Jr.

28:28You did have a period of a lot of violence, political violence in the 1970s, the weather underground, the Symbionese Liberation Army, the kidnapping of Patty Hearst. I mean it was a crazy time, and we have talked a lot about on the show over the years about the comparison to the 1970s, and that's actually almost immediately what I came to. But there's some really darker ones as well that actually Ryan was reminding of. And I had to go back and really to look because I'd only read about them in passing. But probably, you know, maybe the more one to one comparison would be a guy like Elijah Lovejoy.

29:05He was actually an abolitionist newspaper editor in 1837 who was actually killed by a pro-slavery mob. And it was actually quite common during the Civil War era where pro-abolitionists and or anti-secessionists and others in the South, journalists, political editors, people who would express those types of opinions were killed for their political beliefs and for putting that out there. But that is how far back I would have to go actually to even find a comparison to keep it in the realm of Luigi Mangione. I've talked about this here on the show also because of Luigi's own predilections for Japanese culture.

29:46But in the early 1930s, 20s and 30s, in the rise of the Japanese militarist state, there was a concept called geikokujo, which means kind of like from the bottom to the top. And it entailed high profile assassination. And assassination was not something just limited to the government, although it was largely conducted. It was to target political leaders, opinion leaders, others for people to create a purpose of kind of moving towards militarism. Again, they're not one to one, but, you know, the same social forces are not all that rare. I could also think to the anarchist movements of the early 1900s, Gilded Age, oligarchs were targeted, columnists and others.

30:30Again, they weren't assassinated, but that's part of what makes this, I think, so extraordinary. And it's so crazy that we're talking. I don't know. I mean, it's difficult to describe because it's not the same as 9-11, obviously, but it does just feel like a Rubicon was crossed yesterday. I mean, he was murdered and he was assassinated in cold blood in front of thousands of people in 4K HD. In front of the world. Yeah. Live streamed. Live streamed. And, you know, for those of us who were in the news business, we experienced his death at like a very visceral level. And we saw the blood literally and the life like leave his body.

31:15And, yeah, I don't know. It's really poignant, I think, to me that it's 24 years now after 9-11, and it does feel like a very different country. And I hope I'm not exaggerating or overreacting, but, yep, you know, and we were thinking about Butler. But that's, I mean, I hate to say it, but that's part of American political history. We've had multiple presidents. who have been assassinated. We've had the caning of Charles Sumner. You know, legislators, it's not like it was insane, right, to think about. It's not like it was insane to think about the death or the targeting of political legislators.

32:03But now it feels like people who engage in American public life itself very recently from Charlie and also these Minnesota, I mean, the recent Minnesota attack that was only a couple of months ago, where these were state legislators. They're not household names. Yeah. These are not even a congressman, not a senator, nothing. Right. State reps and state senators. I don't even know who my state senator is, you know, where I live. And so these are people who are like, you know, no offense, but like are like orbiting the political system. And in fact, I'm Charlie was more Charlie was more influential even than those people, I think, you know, to the national politics.

32:50But I don't know. That's part of why it just feels like that Rubicon really was crossed. I agree. I agree, Sokran. To me, it's like it's a wake up call of the era that we were already living in, you know, that I think we were in a little bit of denial about, to be honest with you, because I mean, even January 6th, like that was an extraordinarily violent and, you know, a violent upheaval. Obviously, you had the two assassination attempts on President Trump. But like you said, you know, in a weird way that that unfortunately attempted presidential assassinations, there's always going to be someone who wants to kill the president.

33:27So it didn't feel like a totally different thing than we've seen or experienced or read about or heard about before. Right. Then you get, yeah, these state legislators. You know, you also had the attack on Paul Pelosi. Right. Somebody maniac who came in who was trying to get to Nancy Pelosi. Obviously, anyone who is in public life at all. Congressional baseball shooting, remember? Yeah, that's exactly right. And anyone who's involved in public life at all, it's almost just accepted at this point that you're going to get death threats. And that's just like part of the part of the deal. So, you know, obviously for us on a personal level, like Charlie was more famous than us.

34:10He had the ear of the president, more power. You know, he had this whole organization and he was an influencer and a YouTuber and whatever. But, yeah, I mean, this is someone who is in our world, right? And so I think it does change everything in terms of how anyone is thinking about themselves in public life, the type of events they're going to say yes to, the type of availability that they're going to have to the public. And, you know, what can I say? The country's coming apart, right? We're chock full of guns, you know, nation packed full of guns with mass levels of untreated mental illness.

34:46You know, people don't have access to a health care system, rampant inequality and increasing political extremism where people, you know, people are radicalized and they feel that the stakes are existential. And in some, you know, in some instances, the stakes do feel existential. Like there are genuine, you know, deep political divides that are very real in the same way that in the build up to the Civil War, like for Southerners, the idea that like your whole, you know, Southern slave owners, the idea that your whole economic model is going to be taken away, that felt existential to them. So, you know, it's a it's a tinderbox like it's a powder keg and it is absolutely it's a terrifying it's a terrifying moment for those reasons.

35:34Exactly. And to me, that has to be what this assassin wanted us like. Like, that's what he wants the nation to take away from this is terror, is fear, is the sense that, you know, you you can't speak out. You can't be in a public place. You can't just have political disagreements. And listen, I'm not going to mince words like I genuinely find found some of Charlie Kirk's views to be violent, abhorrent. No one like that doesn't mean you murder some. I mean, it's horrific because once these things are on the table, that's the thing that's terrifying, too, is like I was thinking about. The epidemic of school shootings, which, by the way, we had a fucking school shooting yesterday, too.

36:16Like, this is America now where three students were critically injured at, I believe it was, you know, Denver High School. So you had Columbine. Prior to Columbine, there were not school shootings. And then after Columbine, they're just coming more and more and more and more and more. And that's what's so frightening about this moment is that once you put this idea out there into the ether, how many other people will be, quote unquote, inspired by it? How how does this transform the way we all relate to each other? And then, you know, we'll talk about the president's response in a moment, which was just pouring gasoline on the fire, which is also what makes this so frightening for all of us.

36:57And, you know, I don't think anyone would be surprised if if Trump does use this as some further crackdown on his what he sees as his political enemies. Well, that's why. It's so poignant to think about it on the anniversary of 9-11 and, you know, 9-11. It was kind of the best and the worst. You know, the day after 9-11, it was a similar. It was a somber moment. people came together. They put the flag in their window from the newspaper. It's crazy. It's 24 years ago. There's probably a decent number of people watching this who either weren't alive or don't remember it literally at all. But I was just young enough or just old enough to kind of remember what that experience was like.

37:41And it's why I'm here. It's the only reason I even got interested in politics. And yeah, and I think to that tinderbox feeling, I think that's what's so really scary. And I do think that's what the assassin wanted. And that's why I think, you know, we really got to try to, to work against it. It's like you said with Charlie. I mean, look, I like Charlie on a personal level. I was telling you guys, I mean, I was really shaken up by it. I was literally just talking to him a couple of weeks ago about what it was like to have kids and to have a daughter specifically. He invited me on his show and, um, you know, honestly took courage for him, uh, because he actually invited me on specifically to talk about Israel.

38:19And, you know, it's that's part of what's so crazy about it. I knew the guy for four years. We had our disagreements and that's fine. We have our disagreements here every day. You know, you and me and we were talking about that, you know, in the context, Emily and Ryan, who unfortunately weren't able to join us, but they definitely wanted to both expressing their horror, how disgusted they are really by the whole attack. And I just really don't want to go down that path again. But I feel like all of the, not only is that the assassin want, but I also feel like it's to the benefit of a lot of entrenched kind of political interests.

39:00It's also to the, you know, it's like the baseline of engagement for politics for a lot of people. And that doesn't erase the existential feeling because you're right. Look, politics is existential. It's true. We're not going to lie to you. We don't mince words about that. The election was insanely important. It was. You know, not saying that that, of course, it's not like a gateway to justifying political violence. And, yeah, just like dealing in the aftermath of this feeling of public life in the in the tinderbox of the country, again, on the 24th anniversary of 9-11, it all just really kind of comes full circle for what they wanted, whoever this person was.

39:51and the you know the the the murdering of someone again there's something so 2025 about the attack you know mac mac was not only the fact that we watched it live basically happened witnessed i mean the moment i saw the video i said this guy's dead it's it's it's over but mac sent us our producer a video you know there was i'm not gonna call him out by name but like a tiktoker who was like yo TikTok live like you know creating content out of it almost immediately subscribe on Instagram subscribe to me on my channel right and I was like I can't believe really that that's kind of where things are now and yeah I mean it's a scary time not just for people who are engaged in public life and you know like I said I knew Charlie I did the you know the crazy the last Last time I talked to him, we fought actually about something.

40:48I don't think he would mind me saying that. And, you know, to his credit, he really would talk to a lot of people. And he had a debate scheduled with Hassan Piker nine days from now. Right.

41:05And he did change a lot of people's lives and their minds. And I mean, that's part of what made him what he was. And I think at the very least, like, you know, if there's going to be taken anything from that, that's kind of like the legacy that I would like to look at. But unfortunately, I think things are going in a bad direction. Well, I think he was very I mean, he was really important in Trump's reelection. I mean, you know, this whole like Gen Z men shift like Charlie is a very important part of that. It's a big part of it. And a lot of the, you know, a lot of the sort of like, I don't know, like legacy conservative influencers, I don't know what you call it, sort of like Trump 1.0, people who got big, like, you know, Ben Shapiro and Tim Pool and whatever.

41:51A lot of them have seen some of their influence and their views fall off as people have moved towards like Fuentes and the Groypers and like some other newer creators. Asmongold is another one. Charlie still was, you know, it was like at the peak of his power. and combined having this giant network, this, you know, very influential. A lot of Republican influencers, too, like their audience are old people like Charlie genuinely had. You could see there were thousands of people who showed up for him for this event. Thousands of young people who showed up for him for this event. So he's a very important part of Trump's reelect.

42:26Obviously was in contact with Trump himself and other people in the administration on a regular basis. And, you know, this is not to speculate about who or what or whatever, but it is notable, too, that he was in real time really grappling with some of those divisions in the MAGA coalition, what it means to be America first and probably nowhere. and we covered some of this on the show, was he more sort of like torn and under pressure than on the issue of Israel? And it makes sense because you have the president who's with Israel 100 percent of the way and back in the genocide and doing the whole thing.

43:04And then you have Charlie's young audience that increasingly has this very different view. And so you could see in real time the way he was struggling to balance those things because, you know, of course, he wants to maintain his good relations with the White House. He's trying to keep his base happy and whatever. And so you could see playing out before our eyes like this sort of tug of war for him of how to position himself. And that's the context in which he had you on his show so you could articulate your views about it. He hosted that focus group of young people that we covered, asking them what they thought about it and sort of letting them talk and also articulate a view that was divergent for the White House.

43:42He's been very he's been outspoken on the on the Epstein files as well. So, you know, he was both kind of at the peak of his power and also really touching on some very sensitive and very controversial issues, not even just with the nation at large, but even within the Republican coalition, the political Republican coalition. What's so striking to me is that a guy like me knew Charlie and actually had good relations. And then I was watching Fox News and a guy like Mark Levin had new Charlie. I mean, he was look, he was the consummate politician. Honestly, he might have been president one day, like even just thinking about it, like in the level of fame, the engagement, his ability to kind of navigate all the political coalitions from a very early age, engaged with the political process.

44:27He was basically on a first name basis with like every Republican senator. I would say, you know, outside of Trump, J.D. and Elon, he's one of the most responsible people for the Trump election in 2024. TPUSA events, you know, were critical, critical, especially in the Gen Z men swing to the right. And, you know, again, because we don't know the motivation of the shooter or like what they even want to cause, it's kind of difficult to even speculate as to where that goes. And I think, you know, broadly, again, with Charlie's murder, with his assassination here, I really just think about like the sick nature that you said there was a school shooting.

45:13And I don't know. I just want to come back to like talking and hashing things out. I know that sounds really trite, but it is, you know, things can be existential and also coexistence, if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, that's that's what that's what this country has. Yeah. Right. Exactly. We don't really have another choice. And that's what's that's what's scary about it. We don't really have another choice other than more of what you saw yesterday of murder and assassination and cold blood and kind of, you know, and that, you know, again, you can hate the guy, disagree with the guy, whatever.

45:48Or again, we even had our own disagreement, whatever, fine. I don't have to throw clear about it. I liked him. I did. And to see not just the murder, but kind of within the context of the broader country on the slide. It's funny. When you read a history book, you see things that are so obvious. But now if I put my history hat on, eight years is not that long ago. That was 2017. We had the baseball shooting, right? From that point forward, Steve Scalise, you know, still injured from the attack. It's a miracle that he even survived and many of the other individuals. Then we had, I mean, so an entire summer of insanity.

46:34We had BLM, which was then followed by January 6th and then was followed now by, I mean, you know, interim school shootings all up in between insane ideological attacks, synagogues, churches. I mean, Josh Shapiro, Josh Shapiro, there were the embassy staffers who were shot, the Minnesota legislators, Paul Pelosi. Paul Pelosi was attacked, you know, and we're at a point now where I can't hold them all in my head. Right. Like I'd have to make a list. Right. That's how many of these, you know, ideological assassinations or attempted assassinations we've seen at this point, just in the past. Just even if you narrowed the past couple of years.

47:16Right. That's just eight years. Right. And I can't even go off of all of them. I'm sure I'm already missing a bunch within them. And then just in the last six months to see this kind of explode in this, like you said, the tinderbox kind of nature of everything. But what it does, I think, really demonstrate is, like you said, what the intention. And I don't think we spent enough time talking about this after 9-11. That's part of why I wanted to focus on it. After 9-11, we did not spend enough time on talking about what did these people want from murdering 3 ,000 innocent people on 9-11. And what they wanted was what we gave them.

48:04The invasion of Iraq, the destruction of our civil liberties. You know, they said they hate us for our freedom, and then we took away our own freedom. Everybody turned inward. We millions of people abroad ended up killed. We ignited civil wars. We, you know, if you we'd never had a serious reckoning with like, why? Why did the World Trade Center? And it's like to strike at the heart of American capitalism, at this strike at the heart of American power at the Pentagon. And they were also going to hit the legislature and the seat of government and the point or the White House. And no one's really still sure to this day.

48:48But for what purpose? And the purpose was basically what we gave them. And I want to sit with that in the wake of the death to say like, okay, like this – what the person wanted was the fear. Not only of people – public life but also just the general chilling effect. But look, we still don't know anything about the shooter and that's actually still what's so insane really about it all. And almost kind of heightens the like shocking nature of it. Yeah. The fact that there's still not a single detail. I mean, it's 9 a.m. Eastern time that we are recording and we don't know anything. Right. And I mean, listen, obviously, we've been speculating privately, unlike others who are extremely irresponsible.

49:33We're not going to just like assume that we know that I including the president of the United States, which I'm about to show you. We're not going to assume we know the ideological motivations, even, you know, as you can certainly spin out any number of theories. I also wonder if this person is never caught like there will be no end to the conspiracy. about this. But I think it's probably the right time in the conversation to play the president's response here, because it fits very much, Sagar, with what you're saying about, you know, we, yeah, we responded to 9-11 in, you know, I don't know, you're probably right that it is what the terrorists wanted, but it also just even putting aside their desires, it was disastrous for us.

50:15It was disastrous for the world. It was certainly disastrous for Iraq. It was disastrous for Afghanistan. You know, the horror and the turmoil of that continues to this day. And, you know, the president here threatening basically to, you know, to go to use this to go to war with his ideological enemies, something. And now another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance. I love hosting summer parties, but dread reaching over a hot oven door to juggle appetizer trays. So I asked the experts at Grand Appliance for advice, and they recommended a Bosch wall oven with side swing doors for easier access.

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52:13To my great fellow Americans, I am filled. Are you guys, are you hearing it or no? Yeah, I hear it. Okay. Filled with grief and anger at the heinous assassination of Charlie Kirk on a college campus in Utah. Charlie inspired millions and tonight all who knew him and loved him are united in shock and horror. Charlie was a patriot. who devoted his life to the cause of open debate and the country that he loved so much, the United States of America. He fought for liberty, democracy, justice, and the American people. He's a martyr for truth and freedom, and there's never been anyone who was so respected by youth.

52:59Charlie was also a man of deep, deep faith, and we take comfort in the knowledge that he is now at peace with God in heaven. Our prayers are with his wife, Erica, the two young, beloved children, and his entire family who he loved more than anything in the world. We ask God to watch over them in this terrible hour of heartache and pain. This is a dark moment for America. Charlie Kirk travel the nation, joyfully engaging with everyone interested in good faith debate. His mission was to bring young people into the political process, which he did better than anybody ever, to share his love of country and to spread the simple words of common sense.

53:51On campuses nationwide, he championed his ideas with courage, logic, humor, and grace. It's long past time for all Americans and the media to confront the fact that violence and murder are the tragic consequence of demonizing those with whom you disagree day after day, year after year, in the most hateful and despicable way possible. For years, those on the radical left have compared wonderful Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible for the terrorism that we're seeing in our country today, and it must stop right now.

54:39My administration will find each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence, including the organizations that fund it and support it, as well as those who go after our judges, law enforcement officials, and everyone else who brings order to our country. From the attack on my life in Butler, Pennsylvania last year, which killed a husband and father, to the attacks on ICE agents, to the vicious murder of a health care executive in the streets of New York, to the shooting of House Majority Leader Steve Scalise and three others. Radical left political violence has hurt too many innocent people and taken too many lives.

55:25Tonight, I ask all Americans to commit themselves to the American values for which Charlie Kirk lived and died, the values of free speech, citizenship, the rule of law, and the patriotic devotion and love of God. Charlie was the best of America, and the monster who attacked him was attacking our whole country. An assassin tried to silence him with a bullet, but he failed because together we will ensure that his voice, his message, and his legacy will live on for countless generations to come. Today, because of this heinous act, Charlie's voice has become bigger and grander than ever before, and it's not even close.

56:10May God bless his memory. May God watch over his family and may God bless the United States of America. Thank you. Your thoughts, Agar? Yeah, this is the worst of Trump, right? This is you take a moment where any of I mean, look, I know people here. Some people don't like J.D. You know what he did afterwards? He put out a remembrance about his interactions with Charlie and he expressed his condolences to his wife. And that's just what generally normal people do from the entire political spectrum. And what's so that's what I mean. And to be honest, that encompasses most of the attitude of the rest part of why I'm really despondent today is that literally without knowing anything.

57:06And look, it could be. I mean, who's who's going to put it out of the realm? Of course, It was probably a political assassination for some purpose. We have no idea really still. We don't even have any confirmed information or anything. That's what I was looking at earlier. But I actually thought Hanania, Richard Hanania said this. He says, I don't think individual political assassinations have anything to tell us about our politics. These are stochastic events. It's a country of 350 million people, widely available firearms. Some of our fellow citizens are insane, like in any country. If you're a public figure, one of the risks that you face is an unstable individual might come after you.

57:43But what he focuses on and continues is not only that we don't know the identity or the motivation of the shooter, but also that, you know, focusing in on hot political rhetoric. it's I hate to sound like a leftist or whatever but it's pretty obvious that it's uh it's everywhere with you know for both sides I guess and I get I know that's cringe you know that a lot of right-wingers don't want to hear it but it's obviously true like the rhetoric is dialed all the way up and we could blame everybody oh it's their fault they started it it's sort of fine we are where we are uh and I also will speak up for free speech and this is the other thing outside of the context of 9-11 is part of the overwhelming and crushing environment of that time actually prevented people who are sober minded who are asking questions.

58:35And yes, in some cases were offensive. That's allowed. OK, yes, you can cancel them and all of that if you wanted to. But mono like a monoculture enforcement and. Just immediately kind of reaching for a political agenda is the absolute worst of 9-11. And that's why it hits me hard today. Yeah. Well, and it's so much worse, frankly, because George W. Bush, at least right then at the moment, you know, tried to calm the damage. Later on. Yeah. Obviously, like this is no defense of George W. Bush. But no, you're right. This is of everybody on the planet to call out hot political rhetoric. Donald J.

59:21Trump, are you kidding me? Like, do you remember the things that he, I mean, even in this little speech where he's castigating, he's calling, you know, radical left Marxists and all of that. And this is a man who just used the mugging of big balls as an excuse to, you know, send in the National Guard to Washington, D.C. So what he, his whole thing is to use either real or imagined or invented crises in order to crush political opponents, crush dissent, consolidate power. It's what he does. And so I don't think anyone would be surprised by this speech or the likely actions he's going to take out of it.

1:00:06But yeah, this was the line from most people on what I saw coming from the right. I saw this as war. I saw, you know, we need to exact vengeance again before. And even let's say it is someone on the left possible. Right. Certainly there'd be all kinds of ideological motivations there, whatever. To use that to say that everyone in that political ideology is basically like a terrorist and a murderer is also just disgusting and abhorrent. But especially at a time when we don't even we have no idea who this person was or what their motivation was. So, yeah, I mean, he's I think it was Zed Jelani on Twitter.

1:00:48He's like, he's a narcissist. This is all he knows how to do is pour more gasoline on the flames. That's that is what he always, always does. And, you know, I think I've always been in the camp. I continue to be in the camp that Trump is a symptom of the underlying problems, that if it wasn't Trump, you'd have someone else likely to come in to fill the role. I don't know that they'd have the same level of like power and charisma and cult of personality that he's been able to accrue. But, you know, he is the he is the emblem of the like collapsing country in, you know, moral collapse and in freefall that I think we all have this sense that we're living in where nobody knows where the bottom is.

1:01:32I'm glad that you said that because I was reflecting on because I was watching TV yesterday and I saw Bush and Obama pull out their conciliatory statements. And I think it's really easy to say, wow, that's great. You know, that's a responsible statement. And I and again, I can't I mean, again, I don't I can't stress the audience enough how formative 9-11 was for me. Like it's everything. Everything is 9-11. And and then I started to think, well, how did we get here? You know, how how did this all happen? And it was the collapse of institutional trust and the psychotic behavior of the U.S. government post 9-11 that destroyed trust in the individual state combined with the failure of the post financial crisis.

1:02:22the I mean, look, we could blame each other for the culture war and all of that. I won't even get into that right now. But at the very least, you know, then that starts to dial up in the midst of all this angst and foreign war and abroad. And that leads. And that's why I'm glad you said it is a symptom, because that is downstream of how a lot of people think. Right. And I mean, a healthy society does not elect Donald Trump. I don't think a healthy society. And certainly not twice. And they don't. It's not even just that, because it's about the erasure of not even norms, but what those norms were used to perpetuate under the realm and the administration, the regime of George W.

1:03:02Bush, of Obama, Biden, Trump, whatever. Like this is genuinely is a bipartisan problem. It was a cry for help. And it's saying like something is broken. I'm willing to take a chance, whatever. We need to get out of this. And I think that the shooting is also a symptom of that as well. That's why I really do feel as if we're living right back through the 1970s where we had, I mean, just think about it. We had Nixon. We had riots. We had the killings in the late 60s of MLK, of Malcolm X. We had the bottom fallout of any hope. We were in post-Vietnam. We had high inflation. We had political violence.

1:03:45There was a sense in that time that we're never going to get out of this. They're like, this is it. The American empire has peaked. But we have to step back from where things are. Now, luckily, you know, we did get out of it, although we didn't get out of it with the unscathed. I wouldn't say it all went so well. And that's kind of kind of how I still fall out from that era. Literally. I mean, we were going to before this, we were going to cover the Charlotte murder. Right. And I was just and it's so funny because we were going to talk about mental illness and about violence and about the deinstitutionalization moment movement of the late 70s and 80s.

1:04:22the neoliberal, what the collapse of a high trust society looks like and explosions of violence and mental illness and murder and public trust. And there's huge debates between you and me about how to even solve that. But, you know, coming from the problem itself and recognizing that is really important. And I'm putting that all together in that context. So, yeah, I mean, And just think like, and it's hard to say when you didn't live through the 70s to know really, like we can read about it. Right. But I don't really know what it feels like. Right. I don't really know if it feels the same or if this feels not as crazy or if it feels way worse.

1:05:03But my suspicion is that it's like the 70s, but on algorithms. Yeah. You know, the 70s, but on AI fueled, algorithmic driven. in because what you mentioned this fell so 2025 i mean in the same way that like the genocide in gaza is so 2025 like what is it even doing to us that we see this gore as just like a normal part of our lives every single day like even that what is that doing to us and then all of the incentives for, you know, the influencer ecosystem is to put out the most inflammatory hot take that you can. Like if you're that, you know, that guy who was there at the scene when Charlie Kirk is murdered and he's like live streaming, hey, follow me on TikTok.

1:05:52Like you're, the whole ecosystem is built up to say the most irresponsible, inflammatory, like outrageous thing. That's what's rewarded. And then you have these structural and I sort of feel like those things are also symptoms. It's an accelerant, right, of what's already there, because think of what a powder keg this place is. You've got. So like just flooded with guns, you've got a totally broken health care system where millions and millions of people are walking, you know, people walking around with untreated mental illness who don't even can't even go to a doctor. right very little like wildly insufficient rehab wildly insufficient mental health facilities and then you have this vast inequality where people feel like they're being crushed day after day after day and that their hope for you know stable life their hope for their kids their their hopes are just being like ground up and crushed where there's a sense that it doesn't matter who you vote for that's not going to change and um and you know then you layer on top of it this very this really heightened political animus and a president of the united states who's happened happy to pour fuel on that fire because he thinks it serves his interest you know and it's just it's that mix that makes you feel every day like what is going like up is down left is right this country is going off the rails and um you unlike 9-11 soccer like 9-11 really like launched a new era right it was a wake-up because these things were happening in the background we didn't really know we were kind of like blind to it but it really did sort of launch us into a new era To me, the murder live of Charlie Kirk that we all witnessed, this public execution, it solidifies in our minds the era we already were in, that we already had lots of indications and years of experience with at this point.

1:08:03And I do think that's not to say that it does put new things on the table, right? I think, unfortunately, I think we're likely to see more attacks on influencers. And by the way, this is also not the first attack on an influencer. There have been other influencers who have people show up at their doors and try to kill them, whatever. But I do think it puts new things on the table. But it's also like a real reckoning moment with, oh, this is where we are. Like we already were in this era and this is just confirmation of where we are at this point. That's right. I mean, if you think back to the 1960s, it's like when RFK, the people who saw – I'm not comparing them.

1:08:42I'm just looking for analogies. When RFK was killed, that's after JFK, MLK, Malcolm X, and then RFK. The people who went through that, that's why they gave up. They were like, this is just where we are now. That killed it. That killed it. It was a huge turning point for the nation. Yeah. Yeah. And the last thing I'll say on the 9-11 comparison is what makes this moment even scarier. And again, just to cover, like, we're not saying that Charlie Kirk, this one individual being killed is equivalent to, you know, 3 ,000 people being murdered on an island. But we're just trying to think of culturally significant moments.

1:09:23And that led to a mass crackdown on civil liberties, the fallout of which we still live with, that mass surveillance. The tech now is so much more advanced. Yeah. So much more advanced. Things they could never have dreamed of in 2001 are already being implemented in 2025. Like, so that's the other thing that makes this such a frightening moment. I actually recorded an episode. I don't know if it's going to air now at this point because it feels very outdated, but of her take with Anna Kasparian and Jillian Michaels and that whole crew. And we're talking about there was a dude who went on Fox News to pitch his like AI, you know, minority report threat detection thing.

1:10:05And that tech is just like widely available now. Now it's there's Palantir. The AI race is on. So things that were just not technically possible, like the type of sweeps and mass targeting. So not just like an individual, but mass targeting of people for their views and their political beliefs. That's all technologically available to us in a way that it wasn't previously. And, you know, again, we have an administration that has used every excuse they can to try to go after their political enemies and adversaries, whether it's lawyers, whether it's pro-Palestine protesters, whether it's immigrants, whether it's colleges, like across the board.

1:10:47And so we can only imagine, I think we can only begin to wrap our head around what the fallout from this is going to be, what the fallout of seeing this kind of gore in our timelines, what the fallout in terms of a crackdown is going to be, what the fallout in terms of how influencers are going to conduct themselves and what this is going to mean for the world going forward. Yeah, I think that's well said. All right, guys, do you have anything else you want to go over, Crystal? I think that's a I don't see anything breaking or new that's worth putting out there. You know, I think as far as we can tell, the search for the gunman continues.

1:11:24And as far as what's been put out there publicly, there's very, you know, scarce details to go on. But we will say it's very early still. So we'll be we'll be on it. And guys, Ryan, Emily and I are going to be doing a Friday show tomorrow. So we'll hear their thoughts. We'll try to cover some other stories tomorrow as well, because, of course, there continue to be important developments happening elsewhere in the world, too. Absolutely. All right. Thank you guys for watching. Rest in peace, Charlie, and condolences to the family. We'll see you guys later. And now another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance.

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