9/16/25: Kash Patel Incoherent On Kirk Manifesto, Trump AG Threatens Hate Crime Crackdown, Tucker War On Israel Over Kirk

25:04All of my professors throughout the entire journey have been nothing but supportive of making me reach my dreams. Rasmussen professors, they want to see you grow so that you can be what you want to school to be. I'm so thankful for Rasmussen University for being able to make it so easy and seamless. Rasmussen University. Find your seat and start now at rasmussen.edu. Summer is here. At Orderly Meds, we know this time is a reminder that life is full of new beginnings. Whether you're celebrating the nice weather, starting a new chapter, planning a vacation, or simply looking ahead to what's next, this season can be the perfect time to invest in yourself and your health.

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26:21Compounded medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details. This is Becca and Tanya from Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya Rad. Becca, can I ask you a question? How do I convince myself I need something before I buy it? Oh, so we're doing that today. Well, I'll be shopping online and suddenly I'm like, well, technically this counts as self-care. You're definitely not alone there. That's why Klarna stands out. It's about smarter tools that help you feel more confident with your money. Klarna brings payments, cashback and money management together in one place with flexible ways to pay.

27:02It helps you make smarter money moves without the stress. That's the goal, right? Having tools that make your money work with you. Download the Klarna app today or visit Klarna.com to learn more. California resident loans made or arranged pursuant to a California finance law license. NMLS number 1353190. Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cash back points. Limitations, terms, and conditions apply. The point is that if it's going to lead to extraordinary action, I would hope that one of the things that actually happens is that all information gets released. So at the very least, then all Americans can judge these things for themselves.

27:39And instead, it's the opposite where we have law enforcement, incompetence, total incompetence at the very top. Lots of questions that remain unanswered. And now this claim that are basically being used here by members of the at the highest level of the United States government are acting in extraordinary ways that even after 9-11, they did not dream of doing. And so here is the latest. Pam Bondi, the United States Attorney General, the top lawyer for the United States government, now saying that there will be, quote, free speech, then there's hate speech, and there's no place for that, and that we will be going after, quote, hate speech.

28:18I mean, you know, the jokes write themselves. Take a listen. There's free speech, and then there's hate speech. And there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie in our society. Do you see more law enforcement going after these groups who are using hate speech and putting cuffs on people so we show them that some action is better than no action? We will absolutely target you, go after you, if you are targeting anyone with hate speech, anything. And that's across the aisle. I mean, this is, oh, if you yell fire in a crowd, this is woke. I mean, that's to you to borrow Gavin's attack when he's like, you sound woke.

29:01That's that's woke. That's literally what like BLM liberals said for the entirety of 2017 to 2021. They're like, well, there's a difference between free speech and hate speech. It's like word for word. You are exactly right. Coming from word attorney general. Yes. The United States. That's what makes it worse. On Stephen Miller's wife's podcast on state media. And I want to emphasize that's why it's 10 times worse because there's actually a big difference between some shit lib on Twitter saying that free speech does not give you a license to hate speech and whatever this is where the top – again, top lawyer, attorney general of the United States of America who can direct the FBI and has vast resources at her fingertips saying that effectively we need some sort of hate speech enforcement.

29:46And so I can make all the jokes about being a lib and being woke and all of that, but I will turn to the words of Charlie Kirk. Let's put this up here on the screen. Quote, hate speech does not exist legally in America. There is ugly speech. There is gross speech. There is evil speech. All of it is protected by the First Amendment. Keep America free. And that's exactly it. And the very fact that she uttered those words just demonstrates the level of hysteria, hypocrisy of all of these people who allegedly were so pearl-clutched through the woke earth. I mean I was too, okay? Let's be honest. But I don't think a lot of people signed up for this.

30:23And look, I've been relatively heartened. There's a lot of conservatives and others who have spoken out against this. But the point actually is they want her to rein it in just by saying hate speech. No, guys. The entire point is that from the beginning, the posture has basically been to be a liberal wet dream post-January 6th. Do you remember how many segments we did on our show after January 6th when, for example, there was an elite effort to try and crack signal messages? They destroyed Parler unjust, completely unfairly and unjustly. Destroyed that. They banned Trump from Twitter. They wanted to designate Republicans, including J6ers and others, as domestic terrorists so they could use Patriot Act designations against them.

31:14I mean we fought like hell against all of this stuff. All of this is part of the same thing. I mean they wanted hate speech laws at that time. They wanted mass censorship, and they got some of it to a certain extent. They wanted to use the full force of the government to basically enact the law against half of the country. And now after revolting against that, talking about its unconstitutionality, about how bad it is, we are right back, literally right back to where the liberals started on this entire thing. It's just so ironic. It fits, though, with a lot of this pattern. Yeah. Yeah, sorry. I mean, I would just say in fairness to us, I think we always recognize that many of the people on the right who were claiming to be such free speech warriors always had a tremendous blind spot.

31:58I mean, we always brought up the example of BDS, for example. We talked about, remember Mike Lindell launching his social media platform and being like, it's free speech, but no cursing, no this, no that, no whatever. And so, you know, I think I don't think we were so Pollyanna to believe that most of these actors were actually principled and genuine in their concerns over free speech. But it is it is wild. Like it is wild to see, for example, the Twitter files. What were the Twitter files about? It was all about the government using sort of like soft coercion where they let's have a meeting and talk about these things.

32:32Let me here's an email of some people flagging tweets. Let me why don't you take a look at these sorts of people? Yes, you're right. OK, that we objected to. You can go back and watch the tape about the way we objected to that, even on issues where like COVID denialism, things that I oppose. But listen, they shouldn't be. You shouldn't have the government saying what you can say and what you can't say and putting pressure on these social media companies. And they know what the deal is because the government can come down hard on you. And they've got these antitrust investigations, all of that.

33:00This is so much worse because it's the attorney general. It's the president of the United States. It's Stephen Miller. This conversation right here is happening on Stephen Miller's wife's podcast, state media, similar sentiments expressed from, you know, the Stephen Miller on J. With J.D. Vance hosting Charlie Kirk's podcast again. So this and you have an administration with a track record of crushing civil liberties, of being incredibly heavy handed in their ability to try to crush dissent. So it is, you know, like the worst of the woke era on steroids. And it's just crazy to see the very same language being recycled.

33:41We talked about this too with regard to the crushing of pro-Palestine dissent. You know, all of the people who were against the safe spaces for college students suddenly like, oh my God, the microaggressions, like we need, you know, their safety, words are literal violence, et cetera, et cetera. So all of that language was repurposed in terms of crushing pro-Palestine dissent. And now you see them talking about consequence culture. Again, the exact language that was used by liberals during the peak of, you know, like woke cancel culture. And now you see this again, the exact same language that some like, you know, liberal professor or whatever would have used about hate speech being different from free speech.

34:23Charlie Kirk's message. And Charlie Kirk also, by the way, wasn't consistent on this in life. But his tweet is 100 % correct. Listen, we can have a discussion, as we did yesterday, about where to draw the lines in terms of acceptable society and what conflicts with your job and what private companies are going to do, et cetera. We had that conversation. You can watch it yesterday. But when it comes to the government enforcement, the First Amendment is about protecting specifically offensive speech. Because it's not controversial if you're saying just like hugs and kisses and love all around. when it matters is when you're saying something that is provocative, that is controversial, that is potentially offensive, that threatens or offends those in power.

35:02That's when the First Amendment matters. And we, I think, have tried to be pretty consistent in the way that we've applied that across the board. Absolutely. I have tried a lot. And I've always felt as if it was a bit of a joke, but it's especially egg on the face for anybody who spoke out about this and then is not doing so. when the top attorney general, lawyer, person with immense power to ruin any of our lives says this stuff publicly. And by the way, it was 10 times worse later on. It's not as if she backtracked all that much because literally hours later, she appeared on Fox News to demand that people, Office Depot workers, I think, workers who refuse to print posters with Charlie's picture for a vigil, She basically said, we can prosecute you for that.

35:55Let's take a listen. That's horrific. It's free speech, but you shouldn't be employed anywhere if you're going to say that. And employers, you have an obligation to get rid of people. You need to look at people who are saying horrible things. And they shouldn't be working with you. Businesses cannot discriminate. If you want to go in and print posters with Charlie's pictures on them for a vigil, you have to let them do that. We can prosecute you for that. I have Harmeet Dillon right now in our civil rights unit looking at that immediately that Office Depot had done that. We're looking at that.

36:24Have to print the poster. No, you don't, actually. Also, Office Depot fired those people, which they're, you know, I guess that's their right to do. It's a civil rights complaint now. You have to print the poster. Again, we're going to prosecute. I will not take a lecture. I will not stand for this after watching. I think correctly, and we've debated it before. It's like that masterpiece cake thing. Oh, you got to bake the cake for the gay couple. No, you don't, actually. And they did the exact same thing. They filed a civil rights complaint, complete bullshit. Any private business has the right to basically do whatever they want as long as they are not specifically discriminating based upon the code of the civil rights era.

37:04Now, we can all debate the gay thing in particular. But if you held the position, which I absolutely 100 percent do, that the guy did not have to do a goddamn thing for those people, I would hold the exact same position here. And it's especially galling when the attorney general is basically saying they're going to use the civil rights code to go after employees for saying that they did not want to print that poster. Now, here's the thing. It's very different. If the company says you violated company policy by refusing to do this, that's actually one thing. And fine. You could be fired for that, of course.

37:35If you have an internal protocol of we have a standard, the only things that we won't print are this, this, and this. You violated that because you brought your personal feelings into our workplace. Get out of here. I don't have a problem with that. I don't think anybody really should. But for the attorney general to basically say we're going to open a civil rights investigation against you for refusing to do this, that is completely out of bounds. You are literally coming in and telling these businesses and employees what type of political activity they can or cannot refuse to do. It's preposterous to the nth degree.

38:10And this fits with the pattern of this administration. We'll recall you take local and small incidents and you blow them up into the most ludicrous prosecution by the federal government. They opened an investigation when some girl at a Florida university approached, yelled at, and touched a guy who was wearing an IDF T-shirt in the gym. Florida expelled her. Okay, fine, whatever. Maybe she violated the student code of conduct. Not an expert or whatever on that. That's a local matter. They opened a civil rights investigation into that. I've talked about the coffee shop case previously where, again, there was some coffee shop in Los Angeles and some shit happened.

38:50They were pro-Palestine or whatever, and some people who were there claimed that somebody said something nasty to them about being Jewish. I don't support that. I think that's egregious behavior. That's a local matter for Los Angeles PD and for the state of California. It is not a matter for the attorney general and civil rights investigator. And it's the same thing with this is the department. I've talked about how the Department of Anti-Racism has become the Department of Anti-Semitism under this administration. Now it will be the Department of Policing. Everybody in the entire world, if you don't do how we want you to act, we're going to open a civil rights investigation and a prosecution against you.

39:28It is – I can't – I really – I'm so viscerally angry about it because it's – for me, it's the hypocrisy. You can't – because for the libs, they always believe this stuff, OK? And they were pretty open about it. Nobody lied to you. By the way, they lost the election in part, I think, because of that. And I think that's a good thing. I think a lot of people stood up and said, no, we're not dealing with this bullshit anymore. But then to run against it and immediately less than nine months or whatever into the – nine months into the administration to be – to repeating – I mean can you imagine if Obama or any of these other people announces?

40:03Even Masterpiece, let's say it. That was a Colorado state case. It wasn't federal. It wasn't federal. It didn't involve Eric Holder. That would have been a whole other ballgame in my opinion. So, yeah, I just – I don't know. I'm so infuriated. It shows – I've never believed Richard Henanian's theory also, by the way, about elite human capital more. He's right. I mean you have a bunch of literal creakness idiots who just mindlessly repeat mantras about Trump. And then they find themselves in these positions of immense power. And look at the consequences. No consistency. It would be a joke, again, if they didn't have literal prosecutorial authority.

40:40They could destroy us, Crystal, if they wanted to. They could destroy any of you. By the way, at least we are a media. We have money, OK? We have insurance and all this other stuff. You're a normal-ass Office Depot employee. You're fucked if they come against you. Even if you win, who cares if you have a million dollars in legal bills? Well, that's exactly right because even if the case is spurious and it gets thrown out, ultimately, meanwhile, you have the whole force of the federal government and their legal apparatus coming after you. And if you're a regular person, your financial and your life in general are going to be destroyed.

41:12destroyed. United States of America versus so-and-so for refusing to print a poster, even if they investigate you. Do you guys have any ideas how much these types of lawyers cost? I'm talking about$1 ,000,$2 ,000 per hour for expertise in First Amendment law. I'm not joking. Not to mention the way your life is upended, the way that you're doxxed, the way you're put on blast, that suddenly you are a public figure, whether you wanted to be or not, because you refuse to print a poster. And by the way, Charlie Kirk fans are not a protected class of people to apply under civil rights law. Let's be clear about that too.

41:47But the fact that it's ridiculous does not matter. And also, look, the Supreme Court has also given them basically everything that they've wanted. They're on a string of victories through the, by and large, through the shadow docket where they give no reasoning or rationale for their decisions. But clearly John Roberts either agrees with the direction or has decided that he doesn't want to provoke a conflict with this administration and so has basically decided to back down and give them everything that they want. So even if on its face you feel like the case has no merit, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're not going to win.

42:20And it certainly doesn't mean that they're not going to destroy your life in the process. So, you know, it's I mean, it truly is wild to see. And your point about the way that the MO of this administration is to use some small incident or to invent an incident and blow it up and use it as an excuse for a power grab and a crackdown is spot on. I mean, look at LA. Like LA had protests. Yes, there was some violence. Did you need to send in not only the National Guard, thousands of them, but active duty Marines for that? No, you didn't. Here in DC, big balls get smugged. Next thing you know, you've got National Guard, you've got MRAPs at Union Station.

42:57I mean, even we're gonna talk about Venezuela. I mean, it's kind of a similar thing. like they're inventing the idea that these boats that are coming are drug traffickers. Very little of the drugs that come into this country come from Venezuela, as Sagar actually laid out last time that we covered this. So this is their MO. Think of the way they've gone after universities, right? Colombia had protests. There was a thing. So basically, they took over that university, destroyed their Middle Eastern Studies Department, stripping them of funding, like forcing them to fire professors, et cetera, this is what they do.

43:31I have been with Rasmussen University since 2013, all virtual. All of my professors throughout the entire journey have been nothing but supportive of making me reach my dreams. Rasmussen professors, they want to see you grow so that you can be what you went to school to be. I'm so thankful for Rasmussen University for being able to make it so easy and seamless. Rasmussen University. Find your seat and start now at rasmussen.edu. Summer is here, which means we all want to look and feel our best. A GLP-1 may be right for you. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more about which GLP-1 you could be eligible for.

44:12Getting started is fast, easy, and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Check it out for yourself. Go to orderlymeds.com slash podcast. That's orderlymeds.com slash podcast. Taking care of yourself feels great. Compact and medications are not FDA approved. Eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary. See website for details. This is Becca and Tanya from Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya Rad. Becca, can I ask you a question? How do I convince myself I need something before I buy it? Oh, so we're doing that today. Well, I'll be shopping online and suddenly I'm like, well, technically this counts as self-care.

44:51You're definitely not alone there. That's why Klarna stands out. It's about smarter tools that help you feel more confident with your money. Klarna brings payments, cashback, and money management together in one place with flexible ways to pay. It helps you make smarter money moves without the stress. That's the goal, right? Having tools that make your money work with you. Download the Klarna app today or visit Klarna.com to learn more. California resident loans made or arranged pursuant to a California finance law license. NMLS number one three five three one nine zero. Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points.

45:27Limitations, terms and conditions apply. Another significant thing that happened yesterday, which they're clearly trying to use Charlie Kirk's murder to paint a portrait of every left wing organization is basically like violent and out for blood. And we're going to use the excuse of this for a mass crackdown. And Stephen Miller laid this out explicitly when he was talking to J.D. Vance on what was Charlie Kirk's podcast. Let's go ahead and take a listen to this. Walk me through at a high level, like what you and I have been working on, what the whole administration has been working on to try to make sure that we don't reward and promote this craziness.

46:05So it's an excellent question. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. The last message that Charlie sent me was, I think it was just the day before we lost him, which is that we need to have an organized strategy to go after the left wing organizations that are promoting violence in this country. And I will write those words onto my heart and I will carry them out. We are going to channel all of the anger that we have over the organized campaign that led to this assassination to uproot and dismantle these terrorist networks. With God as my witness, we are going to use every resource we have at the Department of Justice, Homeland Security, and throughout this government to identify, disrupt, dismantle, and destroy these networks and make America safe again for the American people.

46:51It will happen, and we will do it in Charlie's name. Also, by the way, Attorney General Pam Bondi has now tried to clarify her remarks. I think this fits all together. Let's put this up here on the screen just to show you the legalese that is all happening. She says, hate speech that crosses the line into threats of violence is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a crime. Far too long we've watched the radical left normalized threats call for assassinations cheer on political violence. That era is over. Under 18 U.S.C. 875C is a federal crime to, quote, transmit any communication containing any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person or other.

47:26Likewise, 18 U.S.C. 876 and 18 U.S.C. 115 make it a felony to threaten public officials, members of Congress, or their families. Free speech protects ideas, debate, even dissent, but it does not and will never protect violence. It is clear that this violent rhetoric is designed to silence others from first voicing conservative ideals. We will never be silenced, not our families, our freedoms, never for Charlie's legacy, will not be erased by fear or intimidation. But to be very, very clear here, she is still using the line, hate speech. There is no such thing legally as hate speech, as Charlie himself laid out.

48:03And what she's talking about there, the extremely narrow definition under those crimes which they lay out, any communication containing any threat to kidnap any person or any threat to injure the person or another. Even in the egregious examples, which we showed everybody yesterday, where people said, I'm happy that he's dead. That does not fall under that definition. That is a conversation instead for employers, for society, for all of us. And as I said yesterday, I said many of those people I think should absolutely be fired. However, however, it is not the role of the government here in any way to be bringing cases against them and be telling people, specifically employees, suing them for civil rights investigation.

48:48One of the things, this great irony, Charlie himself spoke at length, and I know a lot of liberals have attacked him about this, about the Civil Rights Act and specifically about the overreach and basically the new constitution that was invented after 1964 of an entire new realm of case law which delves with discrimination and hate speech and going after people for violating this or that. This is exactly the type of overreach which led him and me and many other people to a similar conclusion that, look, at the very least, we have to grapple with the fact that this entire new code of social law began to exist and has since morphed from originally what we thought would be the endpoint of Ibrahim X.

49:30Kendi thought into now Department of Anti-Racism stuff. You talked earlier about the universities. I have no love for the universities. Columbia, screw you. Harvard, screw you. Why? Not because you're anti-Semitic. It's because you're bilking people. In my opinion, your culture and all of that has done nothing for the elites of this country. If anything, it's turned them 10 times worse. You're much more socially destructive than any dumbass protest or whatever about Palestine. How should we destroy them if we wanted to? What would that even look like? It would be destroying their endowment hedge fund operations and the rise of the DEI administrator and all of that, which is bilking the American taxpayer and putting these people horrifically in debt.

50:15That applies completely across the board. All of us can have an argument about that one way or the other, but the point is not that it has anything with the goddamn Middle Eastern Studies Department. And that is what upsets me the most. It also gets to - Well, they don't wanna get rid of the DEI. Yeah, they want DEI for Israel. They wanna redefine the DEI. Right, DEI now stands for Israel. Yeah, diversity, equity in Israel. OK, I mean, I'm not for that. OK, I saw this shit coming from a mile away ever since October 7th. That's the first time that they turned on cancel culture. And this gets to a bigger theory.

50:47I forgive me because this stuff gets deep into conservative thought. If you go back to some of my original involvement in the conservative movement, there was this debate between libertarians and national conservatives. It was about this idea of using state power for ends. I still believe that as a principle. And I'll give you an example when I talk about China and I talk about industrial policy, intelligent policy, which is used specifically to engineer what I think are good ends, tax policy and others, because the alternative is where we are right now, where we already effectively have state industrial policy for the stupidest industries like hedge funds and all these others.

51:24We might as well use it for more productive ends and specifically socially what I think we could all arrive to. Let's say we should prioritize the American family. We should prioritize being able to build a house. We should prioritize having great business and products which are built here in the United States of America. What they have done and what I find so viscerally betrayed on is they have instead said that we must engineer state power to use for our – not even coalitional interests but for the interest of a foreign government here in the case of Israel. and now in particular to actually go after fellow citizens.

51:56And that's the preposterous nature. It's also the perversion of the idea. So I'm not a libertarian, and I still believe in the ability of the state to actually use tax policy, industrial policy, to have intelligence, as we did in the lead-up to World War II. But this right here, this is the worst of us. It's exactly what happened after 9-11. Well, and the part of it that speaks to the sense of betrayal is how much more difficult will it be to make the argument against libertarians? The libertarians are going to win now. Do you guys understand that? That's what pisses me off. The libertarians will win.

52:29Do you know how many Americans now are going to say, fuck tariffs? I did an event yesterday with Chris Murphy and I asked him, I said, hey, Senator, you know, he's much more neoliberal. So I was like, hey, you know, what do you think about tariffs now? Because from my perspective, I've watched the neoliberals, they're all in on tariffs or attacks. All tariffs are bad. They're right back to 2010 thought. And he's like, well, we can say tariff. He didn't answer my question at all. Dodged it completely. And I was like, oh, no. I was like, when the Dems come back, I don't know how they'll ever be able to do a tariff again.

53:01Even on antitrust policy, because if you have a government that you have a semblance of like either political neutrality or the policy is going to be used to create American jobs and make sure they're good paying and whatever, then you can feel comfortable having a strong antitrust department that's not going to be just like weaponizing that. as a threat to coerce like cultural ends or like to, you know, make sure you're towing the line on Israel. But in fact, what we have is, you know, an administration that is using every weapon that they have to coerce on Israel, to make sure that their cultural policy is pursued, to make sure that these businesses are like paying appropriate tribute to Trump.

53:39I mean, that's what a lot of it is for. It's just like, what is it in, what's in it for B? There's a big corruption scandal with regard to the UAE that the New York Times wrote yesterday that we're going to try to get to this week. But, you know, that that saps the confidence out of the ability for the government to truly be an actor on behalf of the American people versus in the interest of these particular groups. And it is a good segue into the next conversation about Israel, because while like Stephen Miller there, he's not only talking about left wing groups that are pro-Palestine. We know that that that will be a lot of where the hammer falls.

54:16I mean, the Democratic Party in general, the left certainly have been the fiercest and the earliest advocates for Palestine. So if you are marshalling the federal government to crush left-wing dissent, crush left-wing groups, just by the nature of what you're doing, you are going to be having a disproportionate impact on the pro-Palestine conversation. Yeah, and I'll even focus on that. I mean, one of the things that J.D. floated in his speech yesterday was like the tax status of the Open Society Foundation. I'm like, okay, I mean, listen, you're not going to see any crocodile tears from me about the Open Society Foundation.

54:52But the point about law is to say what? Is to say, actually, a lot of these non-profits are basically political money laundering by the billionaire class, right? But instead, it becomes like, oh, these, and by the way, look, yes, it's true. Many of these left-wing billionaires have funded the stupidest shit possible. But the claim that was originally made actually about the nation magazine does not appear to be correct. And so this also gets to this fantasy, which I have said so many times here, there is a fantasy that people think that this is organized in the same way that the weather underground or the KKK was.

55:28I wish it were so it would be 10 times easier to disrupt and destroy. It would be so much easier. The weather underground was 25 different freaks. Prosecute three, get a few non-prosecution agreements or whatever with the rest. They get plead guilty. A couple of them fled the country and were basically silent, I think, for like 25 years. It disappeared. No, we're dealing with something 10 times worse, which is this, you're doing your monologue on nihilism and black belt. That is people sitting at home getting addicted to pornography, weed, to like every degenerate impulse that the internet can serve you and then taking it out in extreme forces and assassinating Charlie Kirk and or in the case of the Thomas Matthew Crooks person, the school shooter.

56:17That's the actual societal problem that we have to deal with. Yeah. I wish there were easy governments. I wish the FBI could take that down. A bunch of young, disaffected men with no sense of meaning or purpose desperately trying to make their lives matter. That's what we're talking about. And it is an epidemic and it is not going to be easily solved Because is there anything on the horizon that you see that's going to create like a pathway to a sense of like hope and prosperity and meaning and purpose for any of these young men? Whatever the ideological valence they hold? No, there's nothing on that horizon.

56:51And then the accelerant of those Internet spaces is only going to become more and more twisted. So that's part of why the landscape is so dark. I think something that makes me well-studied to be a nurse is my empathy. Growing up with a big family, I think I've always kind of been a caregiver. When you care give, you get to know the family and the patient and you get really close. And Rasmussen University, they did a very, very good job of giving us the resources that we need. So just being able to apply the knowledge that I've retained to my daily life has been so amazing. Learn more at rasmussen.edu.

57:33Summer is here, which means we all want to look and feel our best. A GLP-1 may be right for you. Visit orderlymeds.com to learn more about which GLP-1 you could be eligible for. Getting started is fast, easy, and happens virtually through telemedicine from licensed professionals. Check it out for yourself. Go to orderlymeds.com slash podcast. That's orderlymeds.com slash podcast. Taking care of yourself feels great. Compact and medications are not FDA approved. With eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider, individual results may vary. See website for details. This is Becca and Tanya from Scrubbing In with Becca Tilly and Tanya Rad.

58:09Becca, can I ask you a question? How do I convince myself I need something before I buy it? Oh, so we're doing that today. Well, I'll be shopping online and suddenly I'm like, well, technically this counts as self-care. You're definitely not alone there. That's why Klarna stands out. It's about smarter tools that help you feel more confident with your money. Klarna brings payments, cashback, and money management together in one place with flexible ways to pay. It helps you make smarter money moves without the stress. That's the goal, right? Having tools that make your money work with you. Download the Klarna app today or visit Klarna.com to learn more.

58:47California resident loans made or arranged pursuant to a California finance law license. NMLS number 1353190. Klarna balance account required to be eligible for cashback points. Limitations, terms and conditions apply. Let's segue to the Israel part here around Charlie. There's been a huge dust up right now, very lately after Charlie Kirk's assassination. I want to be clear at the top that some of it is absolutely unhinged. People just outright saying shit like Israel killed Charlie Kirk. There's not a single scrap of evidence to support that. What I think is a legitimate conversation, which we're all about to have, is about the role that Charlie played in the conservative movement, the questions he was beginning to ask about Israel.

59:34He was unambiguously pro-Israel. Let's be very clear. He also was unambiguously against, like, groipers and, quote, Jew hate, as he even told me in the segment that we did a few weeks before that he was murdered. I want to be clear, though, that what has happened since, in my opinion, is disgusting, is that the Israeli government, I'm not going to denigrate pro-Israeli forces here in America. They have a right to do so because there's a lot of evidence for that. But the Israeli government itself, Benjamin Netanyahu, has had a concerted effort to claim Charlie as one of his own and to basically use his death for the political support of his country in our country.

1:00:15That is what I find absolutely objectionable, and it goes deeper. This flared up in, honestly, a pretty crazy moment here with Tucker Carlson, who was invited to the White House for part of the tribute segment with J.D. Vance on Charlie Kirk's show. Tucker called out Bibi Netanyahu specifically and many of the donors who pressured Charlie Kirk to actually stop, to keep towing the line on Israel. Here's what Tucker had to say. That was the question. If you were in good faith, you're on his team. That is exactly right. And good faith is the measure. And I have to say, I think now is exactly the wrong time to appropriate the memory of someone and the emotion that comes with that, the really intense emotion that all of us feel at his murder, and use it for your own parochial ends.

1:01:01Like, he stood for this, but I don't think it's helpful for people to jump in, particularly foreign heads of state, to say, this is what he lived for my cause or whatever. That's disgusting, actually. Don't do that. That turns everybody off. You don't help your own cause by doing that. And it's also literally untrue. It did worry me because I think your description is perfect. He's one of the very few who took that message and stood by it. I mean, right to the very end, this cannot get bigger. We don't want another regime change war. But man, some of the people who send money to Turning Point, his donors, were very tough on him.

1:01:34So tough on him that I could feel it. You know, I talked to him a lot in the last few months and he was under enormous pressure. He never bent. He never became better. He kept his integrity to the very end. To the very end. Very politically sensitive, I think, for the vice president to have Tucker there saying specifically about B.B. Tantanyahu's basically claiming of Charlie Kirk's legacy and to bring up this donor piece. Let's stick with the donor piece because this has now exploded into a lot of accusations. Things are flying around here. So there's an allegation now that's been made by the Gray Zone and by Candace Owens specifically about Bill Ackman and a recent conference in August in which Ackman gathered with a bunch of influencers, conservative influencers.

1:02:21By Ackman's account, there were approximately people with nearly 100 million followers that were in the room. There were a bunch of different events and conversations that were had at this gathering at Ackman's residence, I believe, in Hamptons in New York. He gathered them all together for like this confab to kind of talk about. One of the things that they talked about was Israel. There is an allegation now from the gray zone from Candace Owens that Charlie was berated and lectured about Tucker Carlson's previous presence at the Students for Action Summit previously and about some of the dissident things that Charlie had said about the state of Israel and about specifically U.S.

1:03:01support for Israel. So here's what Candace laid out in her show yesterday. Let's take a listen. In the Hamptons, and he had more than one event, but he had essentially what was staged, an intervention was staged by Bill Ackman. Because Charlie's thoughts, Charlie's rational thoughts about Israel were a no-no. This is not the route that you should be going on. and Charlie was surrounded by his friends, his quote unquote friends. Bill Ackman was very upset and threats were made. I know it went down this way. I'm waiting for one of them to go on record and to say that it didn't go down this way. It was at this time that Bibi Netanyahu was called and Charlie was invited to Israel.

1:03:55This was an under duress situation, I would say, because I've been in these situations before. It felt like a threat, like not like, hey, come here and we can educate you because you're my friend. More like this is your last chance. That's how it felt to me. I can't speak to how it felt to Charlie. And I know that Charlie was offered a ton of money in this moment. A ton of money. Bebe would fund it, you know. Charlie said no to Bebe. Okay. Okay, Bill Ackman, if you would like to dispute that, I would love to hear what you say happened. Because our sources and what we have, it's solid, okay? There were conversations that took place, messages that were sent at that time, and they are solid.

1:04:44But I also went out to two other people who were at this meeting, and nobody is willing to go on record. They're all messaging each other, trying to figure out a coordinated response to say that, no, this was all quite cordial. But no one wants to go on record and describe it as cordial because they know someone's leaking, because someone's got a guilty conscience about what happened at the Hamptons. I am inviting you guys. I will give you my platform, actually, to come clear matters up and tell us what really happened. Because, you know, I think Charlie was definitely on the brink of changing some of his perspectives.

1:05:23Okay, so that's from Candace. I want to be very clear here that Bill Ackman is disputing a lot of this. Let's put this up here on the screen. Here's what Ackman had to say. He said that this afternoon, Candace Owen slandered me, accusing of staging an intervention. He lays out specifically everything that I did about the conference, about the gathering that happened. What he says is that he had an initial Zoom with Charlie. The agenda for the meeting that he took place in was the economic future of America, the cultural landscape of dating and marriage, the convergence of East and West, Mom Donnie, the new threat to America.

1:05:52And what we see actually, again, with what we see with Bill Ackman's tweet broadly is he's disputing that there was any sort of confrontation, intervention, and all of that. I will also note that Charlie's former producer has said that he does not believe that the account is accurate. I have that if you want me to read it. Yeah, go ahead, please. So this is from former producer Andrew Colvitt. Yeah. I've been asked about the Bill Ackman event more than a few times now. So I asked our staff who were traveling with Charlie to find out what's true, what's not. His team was with him 100 % of the time when he wasn't in his hotel room.

1:06:26Here's what they told me. Quote, Bill never yelled at Charlie, never pressed him on BB, never gave him a list of Charlie's offenses against Israel. There was concern raised about having Tucker at SAS. We don't believe this came from Bill. And Charlie's reply was, quote, honestly, people telling me not to have Tucker makes me want to have Tucker, and I'm going to lock him in for AM Fest 2. Charlie personally told me he had a very cordial relationship with Bill and the event was productive. Those are the facts. Yes. So he does confirm there was some sort of something said about upset expressed over Tucker being at this previous Turning Points event.

1:07:00It fits also with there was a podcast that was recorded with Megyn Kelly right around this time where Charlie said effectively something to effect of, I feel like I can criticize my own government with more ease than I can fit the Israeli government. What he said is actually, I misquoted this the other day. What he said is that he feels like Israelis can criticize the Israeli government more than he can. That's right. And that that was crazy to him. That's accurate, by the way. Yeah, that it is accurate. Yeah. That, you know, he felt this constrained. And the other thing is, like, I don't know what happened in the Hamptons.

1:07:33There's a couple things I will say when it comes to these type of, like, billionaire donors. It doesn't normally, like, the pressure doesn't have to be so overt. Charlie is a sophisticated actor in this space. Absolutely. And by the way, he acknowledged so much of this publicly. Right. A big part of his role is fundraising and donor maintenance. As the head of a large organization that receives a lot of wealthy, high net worth individual backing, that is a large part of what he would be doing. So you don't need them to yell at you to know what they want you to do. You don't need direct, overt, blackmail threats, et cetera.

1:08:10you know, there could be much more subtle indications of like, oh, you know, if Tucker isn't at the next event, then I think I have some donors I could bring in. I think I have some money that could go. I'm not saying that's what happened. I'm just saying that's the way these things typically work. Because everyone knows the game. You don't need, if you're Charlie Kirk, you're a smart person, you don't need anyone to blatantly tell you, we want you to be towing the line 100%. You think he doesn't know that? Of course he knew that. Of course he knew that. And then to your point, Sagar, A good bit of this was out in public.

1:08:42Laura Loomer was going after Charlie Kirk aggressively. She's now since, I think, deleted a bunch of her tweets over this. But if you put B7 up on the screen, Laura Loomer was attacking him. There were tons of pro-Israel conservatives who were going after him for hosting not only Tucker, but Dave Smith for a debate on Zionism there. She said, I don't ever want to hear Charlie Kirk cling. he is pro-Trump ever again after this weekend. I'd say he's revealed himself as a political opportunist. I've had a front row seat to witness the mental gymnastics these last 10 years. Lately, Charlie's decided to behave like a charlatan, claiming to be pro-Trump one day while he stabs Trump in the back the next.

1:09:23There was a lot of upset about the Dave Smith debate and about Tucker being at that event specifically. And a lot of that was public. So I have zero doubt that he was feeling a squeeze. And we discussed this previously as well, even before his killing. He was feeling a squeeze between, my primary role is to back up this administration. If you doubt that that's the case, just see J.D. Vance taking over, the vice president of the United States taking over his podcast after he's killed. His primary role is to back up this administration. However, since he's supposed to be a voice for these young people, and you see organically young people across the board, including young Republicans, saying, what are we doing?

1:10:07How is this America first? He was feeling very pressured between the support of the administration, the need to keep his donors on board, and being able to keep his young base from fleeing to other influencers like a Nick Fuentes or like a Candace Owens. He was obviously feeling that pressure and trying to figure out how to navigate that space. So that's why he had you on. That's why he allowed Tucker and Dave Smith to be at his event. He wasn't going to say it, but I'll, you know, so he's sort of creating plausible deniability for himself, but he would let these other people in to say it. That's why he had that youth focus group on Israel again, which we covered, which again was a way for him to, he's not going to be the one to say it, but at least he's allowing these voices to be out there and be given representation on his platform.

1:10:58Exactly right. Very, very well said. And that is, that's why I started the way that we did, is that a lot of this is being thrown around, oh, Israel killed. Listen, the controversy to me is the way that the Bibi Netanyahu government is trying to claim Charlie Kirk. And I want to be very clear to the extent that they did. He appeared on Fox News twice, almost in the immediate aftermath of Charlie's death to celebrate him as a great friend of Israel. Nobody asked you, by the way. You could have just said our condolences to the family. And instead, it was all about how he was a great warrior for Bibi's cause.

1:11:31Take a listen to that. He was a defender of our common Judeo-Christian civilization. He was unbelievably excited to walk in the footsteps of Jesus here. He valued our bond, the bond between America and Israel. You know, he did so many things to defend free speech. He had his truth. He stood up for it. But he said, you can come and debate me. He invited that debate. He certainly didn't invite the violence, the horrible violence that tried to silence him. And, you know, this is a worldwide problem. The people on the extremes, the Islamists, the radical Islamists and their union with the ultra-progressives, they often speak about human rights.

1:12:16They speak about free speech, but they use violence to try to take down their enemies. Yeah, I mean this was like nonstop, literally. It was Nibi Netanyahu, Ben Gavir. These are ministers of the Israeli government. We also tried to assert, before we knew anything about anything, that the killer was an Islamist. Right. Like, just trying to will that into being because it serves his ends of making people hate Muslims more. I mean, it's just, like, I want people to really take a second. Imagine it was literally any other foreign head of state. Totally. How bizarre. It's just, it's bizarre. It's inappropriate.

1:12:54It's uncouth. I mean, it's just, it's just growth to, and I've seen people do this with other, you know, know, figures who have passed away. I've actually seen people do this with regard to like Michael Brooks, you know, who obviously is like a much less famous figure who died prematurely. And people will take him, well, Michael Brooks would have said this about X, or he thought this about Y. And if you aren't just going based on like literally what he said, I find it very, I just, it's so, it's really gross and uncomfortable when people take a deceased figure and try to use them and weaponize them for their own political cause, let alone when it's a head of state who is perpetrating a genocide and using our taxpayer dollars and, you know, manipulating our government.

1:13:38I mean, not that Trump doesn't have his own agency in all of this as well, but it's so sick and unseemly, especially. And that's why this piece about, like, the tensions that were playing out within Charlie, who, you know, you were saying, I think this is the right, like, you should look at Charlie as sort of like a politician trying to manage these various coalitions, right? And so some of this was bubbling to the surface. And for you to dishonestly claim that there was no tension there, that he was just a defender 100 percent of everything you're doing, including especially your war on Iran, which he was very public about opposing.

1:14:14You know, that's just it's just incredibly gross and dishonest and should be absolutely, you know, anyone of good faith should say this is wildly inappropriate. Yes, that is what I really want to bring this to. And that's what I think that the controversy is about, is that after – look, he was the best to do it. He was the coalitional manager. He was the person able to be with the pro-Israel forces and the skeptical Israel forces. Something like that's not going to be seen again. And that's why, to me, the scandal – and to the extent that there should be debate afterwards, it should be about the people who are, quote, trying to claim his legacy.

1:14:51Now, I'm not part of it. the institutional writer, any of these people. I'm just an observer. But that's why people are attacking Candace and Tucker and saying it's disgusting the way that they're trying to use his legacy for their political ends. Look at what you are doing. The Israeli prime minister is on television saying he was one of us. Guys, that is the most blatant example of trying to appropriate his death for their domestic political war aims to, it's sick. And it's like the people who object to that are the, oh, they're the troublemakers. It's unbelievable really to watch. Also, I want everybody to flag that Bill Ackman just openly admits to a confab of gathering 100 million people.

1:15:42I'm sorry, influencers with collectively over 100 million followers. Everyone sit with that. And everyone sit with that in particular and who you're getting your news from. And if they're not a very explicit about the stuff that they take money from and who they don't. All right. We are on record of exactly every dollar that comes to this company. Not one of it comes from some Bill Ackman. Neither of us are going on any trips except in free flights. You know, when people invite me and it's like, oh, I'll cover your travel. No, no, you won't. If I want to go, I'm going to go on my own dime specifically to avoid this type of stuff.

1:16:11And I admit it, you know, it's sometimes embarrassing. We talked about billionaire. I'll be like, yeah, I had dinner with him before. I'll tell you that. You think that's to my benefit? You think that it doesn't lead to conspiracy theory and all that? I say it anyways, specifically to avoid types of conflict of interest. So if people are doing this type of bullshit and they're not disclosing it, you should not trust them for one second. So please, please sit with that because it's not just about Israel. There's a whole bunch of stuff going on behind the scenes. And yeah, the people who are not being honest with you, they rely on not asking questions.

1:16:55I have been with Rasmussen University since 2013, all virtual. All of my professors throughout the entire journey have been nothing but supportive of making me reach my dreams. Rasmussen professors, they want to see you grow so that you can be what you went to school to be. I'm so thankful for Rasmussen University for being able to make it so easy and seamless. Rasmussen University. Find your seat and start now at rasmussen.edu. Summer is here. At Orderly Meds, we know this time is a reminder that life is full of new beginnings. Whether you're celebrating the nice weather, starting a new chapter, planning a vacation, or simply looking ahead to what's next, This season can be the perfect time to invest in yourself and your health.

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