In short
The episode argues the U.S. economy is deteriorating while official narratives try to mask it. Guests and hosts discuss a Fed quarter-point rate cut, citing Powell’s concerns about slowing job growth and risks of stagflation. They claim the economy is “two-speed”: stock gains and asset owners benefit, while low-income workers face wage declines and harder job switching. They highlight credit scores dropping fastest since the Great Recession (national average FICO down 2 points since early 2025), with younger borrowers hit by student debt plus weak entry-level hiring. They also cite housing unaffordability as a “2025 bubble” driven by low supply and high demand, not mortgage speculation.
They then focus on Kash Patel’s House testimony, portraying him as evasive on Epstein and incompetent on other investigations (e.g., confusing/answering poorly about Matthew Crooks and allegedly not knowing Dylan Roof).
Finally, they debate Candace Owens’ claim that Tyler Robinson shooter text messages are doctored, noting alleged odd wording and missing timestamps.
Guest
Robert Malley, former Clinton-era negotiator on a two-state solution, now a Middle East critic; he discusses his new book and current developments.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODiscussing the Current State of Independent Media
0:34 to 1:24
Hosts talk about the role of independent media in the current political landscape.
“Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze.”
Discussing the Current State of Independent Media
2:30 to 3:40
Hosts talk about the role of independent media in the current political landscape.
“Have an amazing show for everybody today.”
Federal Reserve Interest Rate Decision
3:40 to 4:24
Analysis of the Federal Reserve's recent decision to lower interest rates.
“the very least, for all of those who are supporting us, we appreciate it.”
Economic Indicators and Job Market Analysis
4:24 to 7:12
Exploring various economic indicators and their implications on the job market.
“My colleagues and I remain squarely focused on achieving our dual mandate goals of maximum employment and stable prices for the benefit of the American people.”
Credit Scores and Financial Challenges
7:12 to 9:46
Discussion on the decline in credit scores and its impact on financial stability.
“A lot of people are reporting actually either lower wages, downsizing in the economy, lack of demand.”
Housing Market Challenges and Affordability
9:46 to 12:20
Insight into the current housing market dynamics and affordability issues.
“housing market, just to show everybody where things are.”
Navigating Student Debt and Economic Uncertainty
12:20 to 14:00
Hosts discuss the implications of student debt and economic uncertainty for future generations.
“I think to go back to the credit score thing, too, I mean, that's a really troubling indication that people's credit scores are following.”
Understanding Financial Realities Post-Education
14:00 to 23:00
Learn about the financial burdens that new graduates face and the changing landscape of earning potential in various professions.
“There are a lot of people who listen to the show who are younger and – or maybe you have a younger brother or a sibling.”
Promotional Segment for Rasmussen University
23:00 to 23:57
Discover the benefits of attending Rasmussen University and its supportive environment.
“Are you ready to be your own hero online and on campus?”
Cash Patel's Testimony and Political Accountability
24:19 to 28:00
Examine the challenges Cash Patel faced during his testimony and the implications regarding accountability in political investigations.
“So, Cash Patel facing a lot of challenging questions in front of a House committee yesterday on Capitol Hill and not handling himself all that well.”
Show all 19 chapters
Kash Patel and Epstein Controversies
28:00 to 29:55
Discussion on Kash Patel's credibility and the impact of Epstein's case on public trust.
“Will you be opening that investigation into that?”
Confusion Over Assassination Attempt
29:55 to 31:50
Analysis of misinformation surrounding the assassination attempt on Trump and Kash Patel's responses.
“I mean, remember, I think Ryan and Emily covered it yesterday when he testified that nobody had ever been trafficked by Epstein, that there wasn't a shred of evidence.”
Authority and Ignorance: Dylann Roof's Case
31:50 to 34:00
Examination of the FBI director's lack of knowledge regarding Dylann Roof and its implications.
“We're like, look, I'm glad he's alive because if he wasn't, it's gone.”
Advertising: Rasmussen University
34:00 to 36:23
A personal testimony about Rasmussen University and its benefits.
“He's in that, you know, on that level of awareness.”
Advertising: Rasmussen University
36:52 to 37:20
A personal testimony about Rasmussen University and its benefits.
“Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze.”
Skepticism Over Text Messages in Assassination Case
37:23 to 42:05
Discussion on the authenticity of text messages related to an assassination and public reactions.
“Because this is a setup of what the downstream lack of trust in Kash Patel, law enforcement and all that generally, is showing where there is a huge amount of skepticism.”
Skepticism Around Text Messages
42:05 to 46:44
Explore the skepticism surrounding the authenticity of certain text messages.
“an idiot and a moron and incompetent, then yeah, you're going to have basically no one believing what you're putting out.”
Questions on Institutional Trust
46:44 to 48:16
Discuss the historical context of trust in institutions and its relevance today.
“I mean, or of any potential legal exposure.”
Bipartisan Doubts on the Narrative
48:16 to 50:28
Analyze the bipartisan skepticism towards official narratives and investigations.
“they hate us for our freedoms, and that's why it all happened.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Shortly after I enrolled at Rasmussen, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It was like a bomb had just been dropped in my life. I reached out to Rasmussen. They immediately were like, Rosa, take what time you need. You can come back when you're ready. We are cancer-free today, and I'm just so grateful for Rasmussen, for all of their support throughout my journey, and for my own village. Rasmussen University. Find your seat and start now at rasmussen.edu. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze.
0:42Bahamar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels. The richly refined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, and the stylishly modern Grand Hyatt. With over 45 restaurants, bars, and lounges, Baja Mar serves up delicious dining from world-renowned chefs like Daniel Bouloud and Marcus Samuelson, nightlife venues like the new Jean Batiste Jazz Club, and the Caribbean's most luxurious casino. At Baja Mar, you'll find every pleasure under the sun and one-of-a-kind experiences for the entire family, like Baja Bay, our 15-acre lush tropical water park, interactive wildlife experiences, including our daily flamingo parade, world-class golf, tennis, spa, and so much more.
1:24Visit Bahamar.com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime. Bahamar. Life spectacular. They're back live across North America.
1:44Guns N' Roses Tour 2026.
1:50Get tickets now at LiveNation.com.
2:00Don't miss Guns N' Roses. Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at BreakingPoints.com.
2:37Morning, everybody. Happy Thursday. Have an amazing show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal? A lot to get to. We've got a bunch of news on the economy, including a Fed rate cut. We've got Kash Patel getting grilled and not acquitting himself, equipping, acquitting himself that well. I don't know. English language is a struggle this morning, apparently. We've got a bunch of news with regard to Trump and an incredibly corrupt deal in the Middle East. And we also have the cancellation of Jimmy Kimmel, state-backed crackdown on media. A lot to get to there. And we have a guest, Robert Malley, who's been involved in negotiations, you know, under the Clinton administration to try to achieve a two state solution is now a critic of that whole process.
3:16He's going to join us to talk about his new book and also the very latest developments in the Middle East. So certainly a lot to get to this morning. Yeah, that's right. Let's go. By the way, thank you to everybody who's been supporting the show. We really appreciate it. It's a crazy time here. people literally going, I mean, we were just talking before the show, ABC Disney is caving to government pressure. I don't really know what else we can say about how insane that is. But at the very least, for all of those who are supporting us, we appreciate it. It at least gives us a limited tool to fight back if necessary.
3:47So breakingpoints.com if you can support us. Let's go ahead and start with the economy. As Crystal said, let's put it up here on the screen. The Federal Reserve lowered interest rates by a quarter point, signaling more cuts are likely. This was in line with expectations from economists, which is why some of the market reaction was a little bit more muted. But, quote, concerns about a job market slowdown are overriding jitters about inflation in justifying a pivot towards a shallow sequence of rate cuts. And Jerome Powell expanded a little bit in his view of the economy, inflation, slow job growth, and potential stagflation.
4:24Here's what he had to say. My colleagues and I remain squarely focused on achieving our dual mandate goals of maximum employment and stable prices for the benefit of the American people. While the unemployment rate remains low, it has edged up. Job gains have slowed and downside risks to employment have risen. At the same time, inflation has risen recently and remains somewhat elevated. In support of our goals and in light of the shift in the balance of risks, Today, the Federal Open Market Committee decided to lower our policy interest rate by a quarter percentage point. We also decided to continue to reduce our securities holdings.
5:01I'll have more to say about monetary policy after briefly reviewing economic developments. Recent indicators suggest that growth of economic activity has moderated. GDP growth GDP rose at a pace of around one and a half percent in the first half of the year down from 2.5 percent last year the moderation and growth largely reflects a slowdown in consumer spending in contrast business investment in equipment and intangibles has picked up from last year's pace activity in the housing sector remains weak in our summary of economic projections The median participant projects GDP to rise 1.6 percent this year and 1.8 percent next year, a touch stronger than projected in June.
5:50Important comments there about the job growth slowdown, and all of that is being backed up right now by hordes of other data. Let's go and put this up there on the screen from The Wall Street Journal. quote, the two-speed economy is back as low-income Americans give up gains. They say high earners and older Americans are faring better than ever, while fortunes and sliding again for low-wage and young workers, probably synonymous there down at the bottom. They say for high earners and many older Americans, the economy looks robust. They are spending like gangbusters. Their 401ks and homes have soared in values.
6:22They nabbed 3 % mortgage rates when they were low. Some might worry about AI eventually for their jobs, but for now, the position looks very secure. What they point to, though, is that if you look at after-tax wages and salaries by household income and a change from a year earlier, you've seen a huge spike, actually, in the higher income households. But the lower income household has seen a significant decline. They also talk about the unemployment rate slowly creeping up and, more importantly, the ability to switch jobs being one that is probably more difficult than ever before. Remember that we had in 2021 or so that time when wages and competition and all there were made it so that lower income people largely could leverage their wage power and by negotiation or going somewhere else.
7:08That's gone. It's actually flipped right now. Now is a very, very bad time to quit your job or at least do so without having one lined up at a similar wage. A lot of people are reporting actually either lower wages, downsizing in the economy, lack of demand. And for right now, it echoes the McDonald's CEO's comments about the below 100 ,000 really struggling in our economy right now. Yeah, I was thinking about that as well. And we covered that. And you said that a lot of people are skipping meals, skipping breakfast to be able to make it work. And, you know, you have your feelings about whether people should be eating a lot of McDonald's anyway.
7:43But it's certainly an indication. But if that's all you're eating, that's pretty bad. Exactly. And certainly an indication of where the economy is. I mean, it makes sense. So you have the stock market continuing to soar, backstopped by, you know, AI-fueled, frankly, speculation. I mean, the promises in terms of revenue generation haven't really panned down. So there is a risk there. I think a lot of analysts feel that there is a bubble in the stock market. But for now, anyone who's an asset owner, which is largely older people or higher-income people, they are benefiting. We've talked many times about the housing market struggles.
8:14Prices continue to be quite high. I also saw new housing starts are down. So there's less housing that's being constructed. Mortgage rates are high. So very difficult to get your foot on that ladder of home ownership. But if you already own a home, then you have that equity. You have that asset backing your net worth. So the country really coming apart in these two directions, which is why you see these sort of contradictory indications of where the economy is. Although frequently outside of the stock market, most of the indications are looking pretty clear that we are heading towards a downturn if we're not already in one and very likely stagflation.
8:52And that's what Jerome Powell's comments really indicate. They are cutting rates because they're concerned about growth. They're concerned about unemployment. employment. We've seen the jobs numbers coming in very low. As Sagar was indicating, you now have too many people and too few jobs. So they're cutting rates for that reason. But there continues to be concern about the way that tariffs in particular are impacting prices. So really not a great landscape out there economically. Consumer debt is also a big problem right now. Let's go and put this up here on the screen. Credit scores are now dropping at the fastest pace since the Great Recession.
9:23They say the national average FICO score has dropped by two points this year, the most since 2009. Although the credit score does remain higher than during the Great Recession, they are down for the second year in a row. And FICO found a growing share of borrowers are falling behind on car loans, credit cards, and personal loans. Younger Americans in particular are, quote, exposed to the double whammy of high student debt and low entry-level hiring under even more financial pressure. Gen Z borrowers experience an average credit score drop of three points, the biggest decline of any age group since 2020 during the pandemic, according to new FICO data, including, by the way, if we continue on this, let's put that one up on the screen, please, about the U.S.
10:03housing market, just to show everybody where things are. It's reached now. It's one of the most unaffordable times in all of history. If you can look actually at that chart, we have a baseline chart there with inflation-adjusted home prices. Obviously, things fell during the Great Depression. We fell back to baseline after the 2009 crisis. And then you can see this massive spike far surpassing where things were in 2006. This chart is calling it the 2025 bubble. I'm still not even really sure if that's accurate because one of the things that drove the 2006, 2007 bubble was using homes as financially speculative assets with mortgage-backed securities.
10:48Right now, though, it's actually a supply and demand problem. It's just a supply, It's just too small. And the demand is very, very high because everybody needs a place to live. And with growing population, especially with urban consolidation and also wages staying flat, it gives landlords, homeowners, and others a lot more power on top of the soaring housing prices. So is it a bubble per se? Like I'm not quite yet ready to go there. But the point about affordability remains standard. Even with the quarter point cut, it's still not going to make a meaningful dent in what your mortgage payment would have been compared to a couple of years ago.
11:25And it puts tremendous pressure on people who are even potentially trying to save up. Because think about this. You not only have to save up the down payment if you want to avoid PMI. You also, though, are going to have to allocate so much more of your after-tax income to a potential mortgage, which is going to be double than what it was three years ago. And in this particular housing market, that also means you're probably going to get like half of what you original – half of a type of house. I've read a lot of stories about people with three or four children who are locked in a much smaller house because they had a bunch of kids over the last couple of years.
12:02And they're like, we can't leave. They're like, we can't afford it. You know, literally, we could sell it, but then if we'd have to buy something else at a current mortgage rate, we would not be able to afford what we actually want. So we'll just make it work. Those are the people who are lucky enough to already have a house. If you're 27, 28, and we're kind of thinking about it, it's a tough time right now. It's very, very difficult. I think to go back to the credit score thing, too, I mean, that's a really troubling indication that people's credit scores are following. I mean, that's a great point, too, is that makes it even more difficult to be able to get a mortgage if that's something that you're looking at.
12:32I mean, it just complicates your entire financial life. But it's also an indication that people are using more and more debt to try to maintain and then falling behind on debt payments. There's a chart out there as well that you guys can go and take a look at of student loan delinquencies over 90 days. And when I tell you the way that that thing spiked, it's, again, very troubling. And I think longer term to, you know, zooming out from the present moment and the, I guess, shaky at best economic circumstances out there. You know, there used to be a story and understanding of what you needed to do to, like, achieve that middle class life.
13:07It's like, go to college, take on the debt, but you're going to get paid back in your career and it's going to be fine and you'll get health care from your job, etc. And if you look at the unemployment rate now for college graduates, that rate is quite high. So there's no longer any certainty. You know, my daughter is a senior in high school. My oldest daughter is a senior in high school, thinking about where to go to college and what to do with her life, et cetera. And there's I have no real answers for her because as much as closely as I follow this, like no one knows what the impact of AI is going to be.
13:38No one knows what this country and the world is going to look like in a few years. So kids her age who are trying to make these decisions for their lives and do the right thing and set themselves up, they're at a loss for how to just do the basics of establishing themselves at this point. I know. It's really devastating. On the student debt piece, with the higher interest rates and a lot of these, I think that maybe – hopefully this is a PSA. There are a lot of people who listen to the show who are younger and – or maybe you have a younger brother or a sibling. Be very careful about student debt.
14:10But internalize and understand what a 7 % or 8 % or 9 % interest rate actually looks like relative to your potential income in the future. Because these things just sound like gobbledygook when you sign a paper and you're 18 years old. You don't truly understand the impact of what$2 ,200 a month is actually going to look like, even if you're a doctor and you're making$80 ,000,$90 ,000 a year as a resident. Even at$200 ,000,$300 ,000, okay, so look, that's objectively a lot of money. Well, let's say a third of that goes to tax. So now you're at$200 ,000 and your student loan servicing, even if you're making the minimum payments, is$60 ,000,$70 ,000.
14:49You're making$130 ,000. You live in Chicago, New York, Washington, D.C., L.A. I mean, you're not living the high life, doc. You need to really internalize that. Dentists is the same way. People look at it. They're like, oh, it's a great way to get rich. I'm like, you're not a 1980s orthodontist who was able to get their little dental degree and then make a shitload of money selling kids braces. It doesn't work like that anymore in the private equity economy. Veterinarians is another one. Everybody has this dream. I'm like, I'm going to own my own little practice. That's not how it works in 2025.
15:20Private equity has rolled all these people up. You are a W-2 employee. Your upside is capped dramatically. Maybe it works in a small town, but where I live and where the vast majority of the U.S. population lives, that is not how it works anymore. or plumber even, some of the traditional blue collar trades. A lot of that has been rolled up. So you were at more of a mercy of corporate power and your upside is way more capped than any time I think in the future. Please, please be careful because I've seen it in my own life. People who are chained, they have no choice. And sometimes life will hit you, you'll have a kid and you're like, I don't even have friends going through this right now.
15:57I don't even wanna work. Guess what? You got no choice. Your ass is going to work and you're going to pay$60 ,000 a year for daycare and for your debt servicing, you know, now you have barely enough money where if you get to go out a couple times a week to eat, you're lucky. These are people who are making big money. And so imagine if you're making$65 ,000 a year. Yeah. I don't even know. And what has basically, I mean, the core building blocks of, we've talked about this a million times, of like a basic middle class life have gotten so wildly expensive. Housing, education, health care. So expensive, okay?
16:27And what has kept people satiated is their ability to buy a bunch of random crap, right? And so we have this illusion and we see everybody in like, you know, nice clothes and nice car and, you know, like going about life looking like they're affluent. And yet those pieces are increasingly out of reach. And so what the tariffs do is they make that stuff also more expensive. So you're getting squeezed from all directions. And that is really starting to show up in the economic numbers at this point. which is why if we can put a six on the screen, Trump has an idea. How about we just don't look at the economic numbers anymore?
17:04Trump proposed that we end quarterly earnings reports. The SEC says that they are prioritizing that. And we've had a bunch of, it's no mystery why he's doing this. We had a bunch of Trump world officials come out and say, yeah, the economic landscape, I'm not great now, but just wait a year, just wait a year. It's going to be great. We're going to get the great American comeback. Like, don't don't pay attention to these numbers now. And so between the firing of the head of the BLS and the the pressure on the Fed and then this this attempt to, you know, make it so that corporations aren't actually having to come forward and report to the public what their earnings are on a quarterly basis.
17:42They are just trying to either manipulate or hide the numbers of what's really going on so that people as if people can't tell in their own lives what the economic reality is. And so, I mean, Trump has tremendous abilities to create a false reality, create a false impression. And even when it comes to the economy, some of that works. If you've ever seen the polls where it's like, you know, when Trump gets sworn in, suddenly Republicans feel great about the economy and suddenly Democrats feel terrible about the economy. And if a Democrat were to get elected, then it would totally flip. But you still have a lot of people who have an independent sense of, am I making it at the end of the month?
18:26Am I able to pay my bills? Do I have hope for my kids and what their future is? Like, what are prices? What are prices this year versus last year, et cetera? And so I hope, I think, that the reality distortion mechanisms he's trying to employ here to hide the truth from people about the reality of the economy, I think they will have limited effect since we all have our own individual personal daily experience with how things are going. Yeah, I mean, that happened under Biden. I've said it a million times. The S &P 500 was up 60 percent over the total of Biden's presidency. And people still said, what, the economy sucks.
19:01It's not like the disconnect is dramatic. And by the way, people even saw some wage growth under Biden. But and of course, they would hammer that home. The greatest economy we built back better. And people were like, yeah, but the wage increase doesn't keep up with health care and education and cost of living and housing. And I could go on forever, right? And so that's the point. I can't buy steak anymore at the grocery store. Steak is unironically, if you see somebody eating steak once a week, you're like, this fucker is rich. It's insanely expensive. It's crazy if you look at the grocery store sticker.
19:38And if you like to buy like decent stuff, like stuff that's grass fed or anything, good luck to you. And I see it all the time. And, you know, it's funny. You'll be at the grocery store and you see the meat section or any of this. In my opinion, this could be totally subjective. I see less people do it. I see less people there. I genuinely do who are picking stuff out. Or you always see, you know, the clearance section or the stuff with the deals and all that. It's like cleaned out every time that I go. Maybe it's just where I live, but I'm just saying that's my own personal experience. Generally, I will say on this Trump thing, I know why he's doing it.
20:11I think it's kind of a good idea. And the reason why is that I know why he's doing it, but quarterly earnings actually are like a really perverse incentive. And the idea that you have to release quarterly earnings is basically all built around like constant check-ins in the company so that the stock price is fluctuating. It's what also encourages a lot of companies right before earnings to try and juice things. or to stop buybacks or defer this or that. There's all kinds of, yeah, financial manipulation. If you look at more stable countries, you know, maybe I've been sounding a lot like a China fanboy recently, but I think there's a lot to learn from them.
20:47They have a very different way of reporting financials. And one of the reasons why is because they think shareholderism itself is bad. I've talked about how the Shanghai Stock Exchange is relatively flat to 2009, even though their country's become dramatically richer, more innovative, much more better off for the average citizen. and not necessarily for the financial engineers in their capital markets, I think that's kind of how a good society should look. So we should ask broader questions here, not just about quarterlies, but about a bigger thing about reporting earnings and what it means for how we think about companies' economic health.
21:24Because your ability to buy back stock is not in any way reflective of your actual value, both to society or to your consumer. It's only to the shareholder. So shareholderism itself is horrible. Quarterly is part of that. Everything is designed, I think, for the top private hedge funds and all of these other people or the asset class, people who own millions of dollars in stocks or 401K holders. And that's fine. I mean that's the social contract. That's how we all get rich allegedly is like just auto buy the S &P 500 and that does usually work because that's how the system is worked up. But my point would be that you're not actually getting a lot richer or at least the people who have a lot of money are.
22:03But for the vast majority, I don't really think that that's how it's working out. I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I also have no illusion that like it would take a lot bigger changes to the economy. It would change an entire reorientation of our economy to change shareholderism, short term thinking and the financialization of every aspect of our economy. And so, in my view, this change is just meant to provide cover to Trump and hide the reality of what's going on as we enter a period that they know well and good is going to be quite ugly for most Americans. Yeah, well, we'll see.
22:35We will see. My name is Arnold Bogarty, and prior to me, I enrolled in Rasmussen to become a nurse. I spent 16 years in the military, 12 in Special Forces, as an Army Green Beret, and I was recommended to Rasmussen by a former student. She said she loved the culture. It was a family atmosphere. I went to visit the campus. The facilities were amazing. I knew before I left that that was the school that I was going to attend. Rasmussen University. Are you ready to be your own hero online and on campus? Learn more at rasmussen.edu. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze.
Read the full transcript
23:15Baja Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, the richly refined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, and the stylishly modern Grand Hyatt. With over 45 restaurants, bars, and lounges, Baja Mar serves up delicious dining from world-renowned chefs like Daniel Balloud and Marcus Samuelson, nightlife venues like the new Jean-Baptiste Jazz Club, and the Caribbean's most luxurious casino. At Baja Mar, you'll find every pleasure under the sun and one-of-a-kind experiences for the entire family, like Baja Bay, our 15-acre lush tropical water park, interactive wildlife experiences, including our daily flamingo parade, world-class golf, tennis, spa, and so much more.
23:58Visit BajaMar.com today and discover a vacation destination where memories are made for a lifetime. Baja Mar, life spectacular. They're back, live across North America.
24:17Guns N' Roses Tour 2026.
24:23Get tickets now at LiveNation.com.
24:33Don't miss Guns N' Roses. So, Cash Patel facing a lot of challenging questions in front of a House committee yesterday on Capitol Hill and not handling himself all that well. Questions about, you know, the investigation right now into Tyler Robinson. Questions about Epstein. Questions about other issues regarding the FBI. He has become this sort of central character. Let's go ahead and take a listen to some of the lowlights from his performance. Remembering your oath to tell the truth, did you ever tell Donald Trump his name is in the files? I have never spoken to President Trump about the Epstein files.
25:15Did you ever tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? The Attorney General and I have had numerous discussions about the entirety of the Epstein files and the reviews conducted by our team. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? And we have released where President Trump's name is in the Epstein files. It's a simple question. Did you tell the attorney general that the president's name is in the Epstein files? During many conversations that the attorney general and I have had on the matter of Epstein, we have reviewed.
25:41The question is simple. Who can tell the attorney general that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? Yes or no? Why don't you try spelling it out? Yes or no. Use the alphabet. Yes or no. No. A, B, C, E, F. It sounds like you don't want to tell us. Did you tell the attorney general that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files? Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in this country and the number of pedophiles that are legally covered in sanctuary cities in California? I'll work with you on that. Do you ever work with us on that? I'm the longest gentleman from California.
26:16Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? The question has been asked and answered. You have not answered it, and we will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt. You said you don't know the number of times Trump's name appears in the files, so it could at least be a thousand times. Is that right? The number is a total misleading factor. We have not released anyone's name in the Epstein files that has not been credible. Director, could it at least be a thousand times? We have released every piece of legally permissible information. You can characterize the numbers however you want it.
26:50Reclaiming my time, director. It sounds like if you don't know the number, it could at least be a thousand times. It's not. It's not. Is it at least 500 times? No. Is it at least 100 times? No. Then what's the number? I don't know the number, but it's not that. Do you think it might be your job to know the number? My job is to provide for the safety and security of this country. My job is not to engage in political innuendo so you can go out to the sticks and get your 20-second hit in your fundraising article. Keep going. Reclaiming your time. because the people of California are being underserved by your representation.
27:22If Trump is not implicated, why not release everything that involves it? We have released everything, the president and anyone else's side, that is credible and lawfully be able to be released. Your fixation on this matter and baseless accusations that I'm hiding from pedophiles is disgusting. Anyone that says that needs to look at the stats alone. The president has, you've seen the picture of the woman's body with the writing and the president's signature. The president says that's not his. The president says it's not his. The Republican colleagues say it's not his. The administration say it's not his.
27:53Will you be opening up an investigation into the Epstein estate for putting out a fake document with the president's signature linking him to the world's largest pedophile ring? Will you be opening that investigation into that? On what basis? On what basis? They literally put out a fake document according to the president with a fake signature. It's a forgery of the president of the United States' signature. That's the basis. Sure, I'll do it. OK, I look forward to that investigation. Yeah, I'm sure we won't be holding our breath on getting back to us on that one. Crashing out, man. Won't answer the question.
28:25He's not even remotely artful at this either. Oh, no. You know, he just, like, tries to divert and start screaming about California and reciting the ABCs. It's like, dude. And we're going to get to some of the MAGA world skepticism into the Tyler Robinson investigation. Like, a big part of why there are so many conspiracies proliferating, especially, like, on the right in particular, is because of Epstein and Cash Patel being at the center of that and losing all credibility with anyone who's remotely paying attention. So that's part of why Democrats continue to hammer on Epstein. That and, you know, I mean, before Charlie Kirk was assassinated, we're digging into that birthday book, which was quite shocking.
29:07Trump's thing in there actually being one of the less shocking things, amazingly. But, you know, there was a whole Epstein news cycle and there has been so much trust broken with people who cared about any sort of accountability, justice, transparency, et cetera. And that bleeds over into assessment of his handling of anything else that comes before him. Yeah. I think really the takeaway from here is that he's an idiot and incompetent. We saw all of that on Tyler Robinson. We saw it previously on Epstein. Unfortunately, not enough people put pressure on Kash Patel. There was a time when, you know, I think he was kind of precarious just because of his handling of Epstein, but they basically let him get away with it and actually manifest with the Robinson case.
29:48I do think that the Epstein part of it, though, is very important because it set the tone for why should we trust anything that you have to say? I mean, remember, I think Ryan and Emily covered it yesterday when he testified that nobody had ever been trafficked by Epstein, that there wasn't a shred of evidence. And you're like, well, okay. I mean, that's just quite literally not what you said previously. And you can claim that you were totally wrong, which I guess is kind of what he is claiming, but it looks pretty sketchy in the context of everything else going on with the administration. That is important context, genuinely, for Robinson, because as we're about to show you, he doesn't even know anything about other high-profile investigations under his purview, like Thomas Matthews Crooks, the attempted assassin of Donald Trump.
30:34Here's what Cash had to say about that. When your president was sat right there in that seat a couple of years, last year in a committee hearing, I asked a very detailed question about Matthew Thomas Crooks, the shooter responsible for the assassination attempt on President Trump's life. I did get an answer from Chris Wray that day, and I submitted written questions to the FBI and into the record of this committee. And I want to resubmit those questions today because I think we are still awaiting answers to those questions. So, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to submit some for the record, please. I'd like to ask you, sir, and the FBI under your leadership, would you please respond to these questions and can you commit to doing that?
31:11As soon as the trial's over. So, did you catch that? As soon as the trial is over? Who are you talking about? Thomas Matthew, or sorry, Matthew Thomas Crooks is dead. He was sniped in the head. It's pretty clear he got confused between Crooks and Ryan Routh, right? The other attempt. Oh, you think that's what happened? Oh my God. That's generous. And I'm giving damn generous at this point. Everyone's like, wait, hold on a second. What? Again, Crooks is dead. And remember this, the actual, all the files and everything that they pledged to release about the assassination, nothing. We still don't know anything about Crooks, about motivation, about, I mean, there's been no transparency.
31:49They shut it down under the Kash Patel leadership. It's still, it's one of the most nuts things, high profile assassination attempts that's happened in modern memory of a literal, you know, presidential candidate, former president, they got all up in arms about it and they haven't released anything. So this is a pattern. Yeah, you're right. We do. Then we do about him. That's what I think Emily said it. We're like, look, I'm glad he's alive because if he wasn't, it's gone. You know, it's all going to be under the rug. The fact that they have to put him on trial, also the fact the state is putting him on trial makes a little bit less room for screwery.
32:22But, you know, we'll we'll see. Yeah, because my understanding is then the trial will be public too. Right. Exactly. And yeah, there's discovery. It has to come out, you know, the files, uh, everything will be, he either will testify in his own defense or, you know, even already we know a ton because of a criminal complaint filed against him. We know something, you know, whether it's true or not, we'll get into there in a little bit, but considering the way that this guy is conducting himself, you cannot have confidence that he even knows at the very basics of what he's talking about. And that fits here where a congressman asked him about Dylann Roof, who I would just generally guess that anybody tangentially involved in politics knows about Dylann Roof.
33:00Absolutely. Dylann Roof is, of course, the guy who killed, well, he was a white supremacist killer. He slaughtered, I think, nine black people in that church back in 2000. Right, in 2015. It was a huge moment, you know, for the country. Remember, Obama was at the funeral. I mean, it was everywhere. Anybody who was even remotely following the politics, I think, would know who that is, let alone the top law enforcement. of the country. Here, he says he doesn't even know who Dylann Roof is. Let's take a listen. Dylann Roof, who followed white supremacist propaganda, murdered nine black parishioners in Charleston in 2015.
33:35Do you deny this? I'm sorry, Dylann Roof? Roof? Roof, can you give me some more information? You're head of the FBI, you probably know this. If you don't know, that's fine. If you can give me a reminder, I've got a lot in front of me. It was national news. Oh, my God. The crazy thing is, too, that she doesn't just say, do you know who Dylann Roof is? I mean, it would still be bad because that's one of the names that is most familiar to people who are thinking about these horrific mass shootings, et cetera. Adam Lanza. He's in that, you know, on that level of awareness. But it's not like she just even says, like, do you know who Dylann Roof is?
34:15She's like, in 2015, a white supremacist went and murdered black people in a church. His name was Dylan Roof. Are you aware of that? And he's like, never heard of him. Don't know. You got to give me more info. I mean, what the, like, I guess one explanation is obviously the direction she's probably going in is saying, listen, you're trying to paint all extremists as being left wing. Isn't this an example of right wing extremists? Here's the statistics. And maybe he doesn't want to go down that path. So he just tries to stop it at the beginning by pretending he doesn't know who Dylan Roof is. But I think he genuinely had no idea.
34:52And that is so insane. I mean, it's just like so insane that we are being ruled by the dumbest people possible. And, you know, even from like a Trumpian lens, because what does he care about? Like the way you look and present on TV and like playing the part and being out of central casting doesn't exactly fit the mold there either. which is why apparently he's under some pressure and there's some possibility that he's going to be ousted. But for now, it seems like they're keeping him in place. He has no faith. I mean, obviously, Democrats, independents, they're like, this guy is a joke. But he's lost complete faith with the MAGA base as well.
35:31So what are we doing here? This is absolutely stunning, stunningly bad. One of the craziest things I've seen. In 2015, Cash was a federal prosecutor in the DOJ in the counterterrorism division. Oh, my God. How do you not know? Dylan Roof had federal hate crime charges that were brought against him. Remember? Yeah. He's in prison. Yeah. He's in federal prison. I believe he's on death row. Wow. And if you're like serious about - You're working here in Washington in the DOJ. You don't know who Dylan Roof is? If you're even remotely pretending to care about domestic, you know, extremism, and you don't know the basics of that, it's just, what can you even say?
36:11Like, it's such a joke. It's just such a joke. Yeah, just, I'm stunned. Yeah, actually, because I knew, I already knew it was bad. With this, I don't even know what to say. My name is Arnold Bogarty, and prior to me enrolling in Rasmussen to become a nurse, I spent 16 years in the military, 12 in Special Forces, as an Army Green Beret, and I was recommended to Rasmussen by a former student. She said she loved the culture. It was a family atmosphere. I went to visit the campus. The facilities were amazing. I knew before I left that that was the school that I was going to attend. Rasmussen University.
36:45Are you ready to be your own hero online and on campus? Learn more at rasmussen.edu. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baja Mar, located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, over 45 fine dining and nightlife venues, John Batiste's all-new jazz club, the Caribbean's most luxurious casino, and one-of-a-kind experiences for the entire family, like our 15-acre tropical water park, wildlife sanctuary, world-class golf course, and so much more. Visit BajaMar.com today. They're back, live across North America.
37:33Guns N' Roses Tour 2026.
37:39Get tickets now at LiveNation.com.
37:48Don't miss Guns N' Roses. Why don't we get to the Candace thing? Because this is a setup of what the downstream lack of trust in Kash Patel, law enforcement and all that generally, is showing where there is a huge amount of skepticism. Ryan and Emily covered the text messages yesterday that were put in the criminal complaint against Charlie Kirk alleged assassination, Tyler Robinson, and including these text messages between Robinson and his boyfriend. And in those text messages, he appeared to not only confess to the crime, but also talked about wanting to go back and retrieve the rifle. However, a lot of people are focusing on some of the particular language that is being used here by Robinson.
38:33Candace Owens, one of the more high profile people questioning the legitimacy of these messages. Here's what she had to say. Yeah, these messages are clearly doctored is what I would say. They're doctored. Now, they could decide why they're doing that. Tyler's being forthcoming. We're protecting him in some capacity. I find that to be unacceptable. Okay? Unacceptable. I want every single text message. I want timestamps. It is conspicuous that you are not telling us when this was sent because it sounds like it's when the campus is on lockdown and he's got to go back and he's got to clean up. And then all of a sudden we're in the next day when his dad is getting clued in after the picture has been released.
39:12They're not telling us that. Okay. And you have a right to be a little bit uncomfortable about that because I'm a lot of bit uncomfortable about that. We need full answers. And as bad as is presented in Utah, I'm not buying all of it. I'm particularly not buying those text messages. It just seems too stilted, too much like a script, actually a bad script. That's from Steve Bannon and from Candace Owens, their allegation. I mean, look, Nobody really knows. By the way, Matt Walsh, many others have said the same thing. What they're saying is it almost looks as if Robinson is trying to absolve a boyfriend of pre-knowledge of the crime and of helping plan it.
39:50I mean it's theoretically possible. They pointed to Breaking Bad, for example, the famous Walter White scene where he tries to absolve Skyler on the phone. I wouldn't put it necessarily out of the realm of possibility because if we're being – I mean look. This is my own pure speculation. The messages are a bit weird. I mean one of the things Candace – They're really weird. Yeah, one of the things Candace brings up is vehicle. She was like, go in your text messages and search for the word vehicle. And I looked at it. The only time it has ever appeared is whenever I get a message from the service department of the car dealer saying your vehicle has ready for service or from one of those spam messages from China where they pretend to be the DMV.
40:34Right. And they're like, your DMV. Your vehicle registration is firing. Plus 6-3 area code, your vehicle has, exactly, your tags have expired. There is not a single other reference. No, actually, I did text my wife once about Secret Service vehicle. That's what I said. Secret Service vehicle. That's the only time I've ever referred to my car as my vehicle. Or sorry, to a car as a vehicle. We're not Gen Z either. This is a 22-year-old who's saying, who's typing like, and, you know, we had, Ryan and Emily had Ken Klippenstein on yesterday. who'd spoken with his friends who said he was like pretty nonverbal.
41:09Like he wasn't a very communicative individual. And then you see the, oh, my love comma. That's the thing that got me is like the full on sentences and punctuation because we're not imagining him at a computer typing. He's supposed to be like on his phone in the midst of what they're searching for. He just murdered some dude and he's typing out these full on like sonnet and using all this FBI speak in terms of the way he's communicating. And then the other part of it is like, it's very fortunate for the FBI that he fills in the blanks of all of the investigation pieces, like talks about the gun, talks about premeditation, talks about where he left him, talks about the outfit change.
41:52This part at the end where he's like, remember when I was engraving bullets with these memes. Listen, it may be legit, but to tie it back in with Cash, when you have Cash Patel, who is both an incredibly, like you have a politicized FBI run by Cash Patel, who is also an idiot and a moron and incompetent, then yeah, you're going to have basically no one believing what you're putting out. And so I saw this across the board, like liberals don't believe it, leftists don't believe it, MAGA doesn't believe it. MAGA's theories kind of fall into two buckets. A bunch of them think that the messages are just completely faked by the FBI because Israel killed him.
42:33I don't see any evidence of that. Just putting that out there, that is one theory that is being routinely floated. And then the other bucket, and this is where Candace's theory, is that basically the messages are designed to absolve the roommate, boyfriend, lover. And so that's why they look and feel so strange. to be honest. I mean, listen, I have to see some evidence outside of just they feel weird before I'm going to float or concoct any sort of theory. But I don't think it's like, I think it's very reasonable that people are looking at this and going, this is a way a 22 year old text. Okay.
43:09Well, someone said it seems chachy. So for example, another thing Candace said was search your text messages for retrieve. So I did. There are three retrieves in my entire history of having an iPhone, so since 2014. Two out of the three are about golden retrievers. The other is a friend of mine on a bachelor party saying, I'm happy to retrieve some Zin. That is the only mention of retrieve in my entire text message history. I should message him and be like, why are you using the word retrieve? Calling his dad his old man is like, I mean, maybe that's a Utah thing. I don't You know, he's got in here, he got the motive in, he got the premeditation, he got the rifle details.
43:53Like, again, this was very fortunate for the FBI that they had this very strange, stilted conversation that laid out everything and filled in all of the holes in their investigation. That was very, very lucky for the FBI that that all occurred in that way. So I don't know. I had my daughter, my 17-year-old look at it, and she was like, Mom, there is no one that texts like this. And she even noticed things like, okay, so a Gen Z thing is to turn off the auto cap so that at the beginning of— By the way, you guys, stop doing that. So at the beginning of sentences, you know, it's not capitalized. They see it as like an old person thing to have your sentences capitalized.
44:32And in these texts, half of them are not capitalized, and then half of them are. She also said, you know, how there's like there's ellipses in here, too. Now, I don't know if the ellipses are only where they like cut off, you know, because they're the conversations not reproduced in full. But she also said those are like old people dots. Anyway, there's just there's strangeness in the conversation itself. It's very convenient for the FBI. and then when you add to it, Cash Fatale being a political apparatchik and an absolute complete moron, then you get across the board people being like, I just don't fucking believe it.
45:10Sorry, I don't believe it. And our producer, Max, says, calling it a squad car instead of a cop. He's onto something there. I don't even know if I've ever used the term squad car. So to play devil's advocate, okay, this guy is a Mormon raised in this small town. sheltered environment in Utah. And he's very high IQ, potentially autistic. I mean, I'm just speculating. Or mentally ill. Possibly. Or mentally ill. Probably both. Maybe a little bit of both. He just murdered someone, allegedly. I don't know, you know, maybe that changes your communication style because it certainly doesn't fit with other communications that were released like from Ken in the Discord messages.
45:52But, you know, the level of adrenaline and you did this, you know, in some ways on behalf of your lover and you're communicating with them. Like if I had to explain them in a non-conspiratorial way, those are the pieces I would put together to say, well, maybe that's why. But certainly not very intelligent if you were thinking that you were going to get away with this to then go, because he says like, oh, I'm going to take this to, you know, I was hoping I could take this to my grave or, you know, when I'm an old man or whatever, to then go and lay out every element, constituent element of the crime in easily discoverable text messages.
46:26So not the brainiac move there. Again, I reserve the right to be skeptical. I am just, I still think it's all weird. The entire thing, it seems odd. It seems quite plausible and reasonable that he is trying to absolve his lover of any potential legal threats. I mean, or of any potential legal exposure. You will recall the governor had said It did appear that they didn't know anything about it and that they don't believe at this time that there's some sort of grander conspiracy. I still find that a little bit hard. I mean, look, the circumstances are weird. Like you had that guy in the crowd. Yes, I understand he was kind of crazy.
47:09I don't know. I just find the entire thing a little bit preposterous. They've given us no reason to have confidence in their narrative. That's what I was going to say. Because I have covered this for so long and now with Cash at the top, it's not just Epstein for me. It's Steven Paddock. It's, I mean, even some of the, like the pulse shooting, right? San Bernardino. What else am I thinking? Parkland. Uvalde. The UT, or the Texas church, the church where that guy came in and killed everybody. Like in every single case that I have covered of these, it's either known to FBI or killer is shot and we don't really say anything about some of the previous interactions with that person.
47:53And the level of cover up that usually ends up happening – remember you all day, right? I mean the Texas governor the day after is like, oh, it was heroic and they responded perfectly when you could look at the timeline and you're like, what the hell is going on here? They didn't go on for – go in for two hours or something. I just, I'm very sketched out by this entire thing. And especially in the context, I mean, it's kind of like 9-11, if you think about it. The official narrative was, they hate us for our freedoms, and that's why it all happened. That's why we need this massive crackdown, and we have to go to war in Iraq, and all of this.
48:24And oh, there's Saudi pages, don't worry about it. There's still some weird details. Yeah, I mean, you know, in the 9-11 commission report, right, where they claim that they found the passport of one of the hijackers on the ground. I don't know, all right? I'm just saying. Yeah. Everything else burns up in jet fuel, the passport falls on the ground? Okay, maybe. To be honest with you, to me, the thing that is most persuasive to me that these text messages are real and genuine is actually that they are so stilted and weird that it's like, surely whoever was crafting these would do a better job than this.
48:58And so I actually like, you know, come back around full. So like, they're so weird and so strangely worded and so convenient. Like it couldn't possibly be that they would be this clumsy if they were actually formulating some some fake dialogue. But, you know, like you said, I think I think it's fair for people to look at this investigation, to look at who's at the head of the FBI, to look at, you know, the degrading of institutional trust over years and decades. if we go back to the Kennedy assassination and say, listen, maybe, but you're going to have to bring me some more. I'm going to need to be more persuaded than this strange text message conversation ultimately.
49:40I completely agree. By the way, it's not just right-wingers who are all saying. Oh, no, it's across the board. This is very unifying. I think it should be. It's weird. It's weird. Yeah, I think we had Brooklyn Dad Defiant as an example here. Who is that, by the way? Oh, you don't know. This guy is a resistance icon. I'm shocked. You know, he hated Bernie. I've muted most of these folks. Diehard lib, okay? I don't believe these text messages were written by Tyler Robinson for a second. I didn't know him personally. I know that no 22-year-old writes text messages like this. This feels like that Steve Buscemi skateboard meme, how do you do fellow kids?
50:17So, yeah, it is truly a bipartisan affair. I mean, obviously, like, liberals don't have any sort of faith in this FBI, there's been a real sort of like conspiracy alignment into the right where, you know, some of the like conspiratorial, like crunchy hippie 9-11 truther types were part of the RFK coalition and are now on, you know, in the MAGA base as well. And so you already have that impulse there. And then you have Cash having just absolutely torched any credibility that he had with his Epstein filing. And then you're asking people to, you know, to accept things that seem strange where they still have questions and, you know, it's good luck making that sell.
51:16It's called soccer. It's called football. Soccer. Football. Domino's best deal ever lets you get any pizza, including stuffed crust, with any toppings for$9.99. We can agree on that. Yeah, fully. So pineapple? Don't ruin it. Get any pizza, including stuffed crust, with any toppings for$9.99. Finally something everyone can get behind. And if the refs disagree, that's between them and Domino's, which means the only thing left to fight over is who's ordering. Domino's. Price is higher for some locations. Excludes XL and specialty pizzas. Select this offer from$615 to$726. Online only. Size availability varies by crust tank.
51:56Max 7 toppings. 6 for pan and New York style crust. Minimum purchase required for delivery. Prices participation delivery area and charges may vary. I love the little everyday moments with my dog. Especially treat time. But dental care? Not always so fun. Until we found Greeny's Dental Treats. These are more than just tasty. They're vet-recommended and designed to support the four areas vets check the most— plaque, tartar, gums, and breath. Their unique texture cleans down to the gum line and supports cleaner teeth after 28 days when fed daily. It's a simple daily habit that supports their health and gives us another moment to enjoy together.
52:32Greenies make health a treat. Shop now at greenies.com. The Hulu original series, Furious, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Starring Emmy Rossum as Alice Black, Furious follows a rookie FBI agent on the hunt for Catherine, played by Lola Petticrew, a mysterious and calculating female serial killer. While Alice upholds justice, Catherine kills for it, terrorizing the rich and powerful men of New York in her pursuit of vengeance. With secrets that change everything, Alice discovers there's a thin line between Hunter and Prey. Watch the Hulu original series Furious on July 27th, Streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.
53:13Terms apply. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.
From the publisher
Krystal and Saagar discuss credit scores plummet, Kash Patel humiliated on Epstein, Candace says Kirk shooter texts are fake.
Robert Malley BOOK: https://www.amazon.com/Tomorrow-Yesterday-Pursuit-Israel-Palestine/dp/0374617120
To become a Breaking Points Premium Member and watch/listen to the show AD FREE, uncut and 1 hour early visit: www.breakingpoints.com
Merch Store: https://shop.breakingpoints.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.