9/25/25: ICE Shooting Details, Trump Pushes Comey Indictment, Italy Deploys Ships To Aid Gaza Flotilla

24:23Ryan Grim:Yeah. They're like, well, I don't care. Right. I feel miserable. Yeah. I mean, it's a seeming decline in living standards because while there's a plethora of sort of like inexpensive items available, the key building blocks, housing, education, health care, more and more expensive. There's, I think the, you know, being in the tail end of neoliberalism here has hit men harder than women in a way. Because so much of men's, like, the cultural value, what the culture says to men is like, you're a man if you can provide. And then there's it's so difficult to be able to do those things, to be able to have the job, have the, you know, the family do the thing that your parents and grandparents did.

25:09Ryan Grim:And so and of course, you guys know, none of this is like justifying. It's just trying to grapple with like what the hell is actually going on here, because it's very difficult, as you said, to understand. It's actually impossible to understand. but I think we have enough data now to say that there is some broader, deeply troubling trend. That's it. So then this is something that Sagar has said, like it would be more comforting if there was, if it was like a weather underground sort of situation and we're like, here's the Antifa network and we're going to disrupt them and we're going to here is what they want.

25:40Yeah.

25:40Ryan Grim:We're going to J Edgar Hoover them. And you know, we can, we can get to the sources of funding. We can deal with this. This is this sort of widespread cultural social phenomenon, and there's no reason not to expect it's going to continue to expand and proliferate, which is what is so terrifying. And one of the things that Freddie DeBoer also writes in his piece, which we should put a link to and probably get Freddie on like next week to talk about as well. But that, you know, the school shooters, like that's become such a part of the background noise of American society that it barely gives you like whatever infamy and like, you know, sick meaning making that you're trying to apparently achieve with these random acts of violence.

26:22Ryan Grim:And so the sort of school shooter phenomenon may be expanding now into these like political assassinations and political attacks. And that the profile of these sort of killers looks actually very similar to the, you know, the typical school shooter kind of profile. Yes. And he was 29 years old, which is actually getting a little on the older side for these shooters. Yeah. But again, five years of the pandemic, I think, upended a lot of people who are now 29. He was 24 when he goes into it. Now he's 29. And as his friend said over the last several years, he became a completely obnoxious guy. But I think you're exactly right that the phenomenon that we've understood for 20 years of the school shooter type is moving into other types of things now.

27:22The school shooter, Malcher. And, you know, Dallas is only, it was 2016 when the guy shot, what, killed six police officers, five or six police officers? Remember that? This giant shootout in 2016 in Dallas. which again like if that happened one time in France you know they'd be like they'd remember

27:50Ryan Grim:for a hundred years yeah and try to do something about it yeah whereas we know no one's going to do anything about it another factor that I think has to be added to the mix is obviously like mental illness knows no national boundaries but we have a vast amount of untreated mental illness year, both because of cultural stigma around seeking help and a lack of universal health care and a lot, you know, insufficient amount of, you know, inpatient beds and mental health resources more generally for people. So I think that's part of it, too. So, you know, in any case, let me just put up these last few pieces that we have about what we know regarding Joshua Jan, put A5 up on the screen.

28:32Ryan Grim:So he also, in addition to the anti-ice engraved bullet casing, we also have this bizarre map that was stuck to the outside of his car that showed radioactive fallout across the U.S. Don't know what that's all about. But in any case that, you know, I mean, it feels like something a schizophrenic would like send to one of our houses, frankly. But in any case, that's one of the things that they found as well. We've got, we can put the next piece up on the screen. I mentioned his brother, again, early days of finding out what this, you know, to the best we can possibly understand what was going on with Joshua Jan in the days and years leading up to this murder spree.

29:17Ryan Grim:The brother says, I don't think he was politically interested. Talking to NBC News, he wasn't interested in politics on either side, as far as I knew. Didn't have strong feelings about ICE as far as I knew. He did, this is important to know, he did vote. And everybody's, of course, going to look at the social media profile and what can we glean about this guy. He voted in Texas's Democratic primary in 2020. That's the only record that we have of him voting in any election. So it wasn't a Democratic primary. The brother also said that Joshua Jan knew how to shoot. Their parents owned a rifle, but that Joshua was not a skilled shooter.

29:54Ryan Grim:Apparently, he lived and was born and raised in a suburb of Dallas. Joshua was interested in moving to property his parents owned in Oklahoma. The brother said, quote, he's not a marksman. He would not be able to make any shots like that. Photos of the rifle rounds they said found near Joshua's body suggest he used an antique rifle chamber in a high-power round similar to the gun that was used to kill Charlie Kirk. And if it was before a certain date, it would not have had a serial number. That was one of the things that we learned about the rifle that was used to murder Charlie Kirk is that it was like his grandpa's rifle, you know, potentially like World War II era rifle and did not have serial numbers because it predated the law that required serial numbers on these firearms.

30:38And the shooting itself lends credence to what his brother is saying and also to what all of his friends are saying that he, like if you're saying he's not a good shot, but also didn't have strong feelings, actually have strong feelings about ice or anything. He fired into the building itself just indiscriminately and did not hit or hurt anybody inside the building. He then fired on a van that was just on the street. And it was one of these transport vans where they're moving detainees around.

31:10Ryan Grim:Filled with migrants, yeah. And that's where he struck three people, killing one and critically wounding two. So, right, so just in his mind, he's just on this roofer and he's just looking down. He aims at a van and aims at an entire building, which kind of does align with the idea that he's just creating a spectacle. Yeah. That there's that there's there's no real plan here. I think, you know, a lot of people who are on the right in our audience and elsewhere will look at this and say, you guys are coping. The bullet says anti ice like you just don't want it to be one of yours. And so you're making up all this like nihilist edgelord stuff.

31:55Ryan Grim:And that's certainly the direction that the administration is going in. We showed you a little bit of Ted Cruz there instantly at the press conference. And J.D. Vance also gave a speech yesterday and, you know, also using these killings and claiming that, you know, left wing violence is out of control and we're going to crack down and going directly after Gavin Newsom in particular. Let's go ahead and take a listen to A7. Because here's what happens when Democrats like Gavin Newsom did say that these people are part of an authoritarian government. When the left-wing media lies about what they're doing, when they lie about who they're arresting, when they lie about the actual job of law enforcement, what they're doing is encouraging crazy people to go and commit violence.

32:39You don't have to agree with my immigration policies. You don't have to agree with Donald Trump's immigration policies. But if your political rhetoric encourages violence against our law enforcement, you can go straight to hell and you have no place in the political conversation of the United States of America.

32:58Ryan Grim:So, Ryan, for me, I'm very worried about the underlying trend of these killings. And I'm also very worried about what this government is going to use these killings in order to effectuate. And it won't be the first time that either one of us has lived through some sort of a, you know, authoritarian crackdown in service of, quote unquote, safety. And look, these people, Stephen Miller, J.D. Vance, Donald Trump, they make no bones about the fact that they they view anyone left of center as their political opponents to be crushed. and have made it a habit, like the storyline of this administration is using either real or imagined emergencies in order to grab more and more power.

33:37Ryan Grim:We already have the Antifa executive order. There's apparently some other executive order coming out. Ken has been reporting about the way that they're creating new categories of, quote unquote, domestic extremism. So, you know, that is the landscape that we're in right now. And, of course, we also covered this week the speech crackdown on Jimmy Kimmel and the fallout from that. I will say I'm very heartened that the backlash to that actually ended up having some teeth. And ABC Disney felt pressured enough to bring him back on air. And they're apparently putting pressure on both Sinclair and Nexstar to stop preempting his programming as well.

34:11Ryan Grim:I think the fact that you had that grassroots pushback and it was successful is a really important development. But what do you make of the administration's approach here? is jd vance listening to himself he he's saying if you're somebody who is going to use uh disturbing rhetoric about the other side you can go to hell and you have no place in our politics i'm sorry what right like what like what do you like what do you what are you what are you talking about here like that and i feel like you can go to hell like and this is not a guy this is not a poster on fortune this is a vice president united states i feel like he he is intelligent enough that he says things like that, that he knows you and I will lose our minds over.

34:53Ryan Grim:Like you literally just said, don't do the violent rhetoric. And then you did the violent rhetoric. Go to hell. You have no place in our politics. I think he and Stephen Miller both do that intentionally to quote unquote trigger us. But I mean, I do like it's in some ways, I don't know if it's the least important point, but on the politics of this, I do wonder if Republicans are going to get what they want out of this when I don't think the Republican Party led by Donald Trump is exactly known for their like mild, careful rhetoric, civility, like attention to detail and accuracy in all things.

35:26Ryan Grim:Like that's not really what they're known for at this point. So, but they're, they really are trying to apply this double standard of like, we can call you fascists. We can call you commies. We can say you're evil, literal demons who should be destroyed and like go straight to hell. But you can't, you know, accurately describe If you call us authoritarians while we're doing an authoritarian crackdown, well, you just want us to be murdered. And so if the Democratic Party did not exist, which for all intents and purposes nowadays, it actually doesn't. If there was no national media whatsoever, what the public would still see would be the social media posts and the press conferences put together by this administration, which includes routine ASMR videos of people in handcuffs and chains, which includes multiple members of the administration and in Congress standing in front of human beings stacked on top of each other in that torture chamber down in El Salvador, which includes street footage of a female student, Ramesa Ozturk, in Somerville, Massachusetts, getting dragged off the street and shoved into a band by masked agents, which includes all of the videos we've seen of people, of all of the violence that's taking place all over the country.

36:55Ryan Grim:Yeah. Like that. National Guard in the streets, all of that. We would see all of that without a single Democrat saying the F word or the G word or without the media talking about it. Like, and the final is this kid, Jan, he's not the type that cares what Democrats say. Like, he does, like, he obviously hates Democrats and Republicans. You don't think this was, he was inspired by Gavin Newsom? Gavin Newsom, yes. He's a giant Gavin Newsom fan. And when Gavin Newsom speaks, you know, he marches. I mean, Democrats literally don't inspire anyone. So, like, killer or non, so. Right. So there is a reality.

37:39And Jay Vance says, well, you can disagree with our immigration policy. Okay, well, like what words are you allowed to use to disagree with it? And, you know, but it clearly has become like a main thing. So if this kid is looking for some spectacle, a 29-year-old kid is looking for some spectacle, You know, the big thing is, particularly in Dallas, I'm sure there's ICE everywhere. And so, you know, if that's what they're looking for is attention. So I would just say, like, I would caution people in assuming that, like, any of these types of people have any respect whatsoever for Democrats and care what they say about ICE.

38:27Ryan Grim:Yeah, I think that's well said. I have been with Rasmussen University since 2013, all virtual. All of my professors throughout the entire journey have been nothing but supportive of making me reach my dreams. Rasmussen professors, they want to see you grow so that you can be what you went to school to be. I'm so thankful for Rasmussen University for being able to make it so easy and seamless. Rasmussen University. Find your seat and start now at rasmussen.edu.

39:24Apple Vacations, where your story starts. And now, another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance. With three kids, I'm always cramming the washer full. So when we needed a new laundry set, I asked the experts at Grand Appliance for a big capacity washer with a dryer that could keep up. They recommended Electrolux, and we love it. Advanced cleaning features with a massive dryer that gets everything dried the first time? Yes, please! Sounds like another perfect match from the Grand team. Shop GrandAppliance.com

40:02Ryan Grim:All right, let's go ahead and get to this next piece about Comey because this is, I think, pretty important. So just to back up for a second, Sagar and I covered previously that the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, which is probably one of the most important jurisdictions in the country. It's right here across the river. They do all kinds of national security cases, et cetera. In any case, that U.S. attorney, who was handpicked by Trump, was forced out. Seemingly because he would not bring spurious cases against Trump's enemies. We also had, which we also covered, Trump posting to True Social a message that - Perhaps accidentally?

40:41Ryan Grim:That appeared like maybe he meant to send it directly to Pam Bonney, but he posted it openly, basically saying like, you got to go after Comey, you got to go after Schiff, you got to go after Letitia James. Hire this woman, Lindsay. What's going on? We're bringing in this woman, Lindsay. She's really great, etc. So putting direct pressure in public, whether it was meant to be or not, on Pam Bodney. I mean, look, in another world, this would be impeachment worthy. And I mean, truly, it genuinely would be. And instead, we're like, you know, 10 news cycles later. In any case, so U.S. attorney, go ahead.

41:13The Saturday Night Massacre.

41:14Ryan Grim:Yeah. Which was for 50 years the biggest political scandal in this country was when Nixon fired some Justice Department officials because they weren't doing what he wanted. And it was a decades-long cataclysmic constitutional rupture. Yes. And it was nowhere near as bad as what Trump is doing. Right. Trump on Maine posting, like, you need to go after my political opponents. What is going on and why hasn't this happened yet? And now, lo and behold, brings in this lady, Lindsay Halligan, who has never prosecuted a case. Insurance lawyer. Insurance lawyer, former pageant girl, participated in one of the Trump beauty pageants, apparently.

41:53Ryan Grim:In any case, he's brought her in, and she is apparently willing to do some of this. So now MSNBC, which this is another interesting thing that you were pointing out, they have Carol Lennick now, who is a real reporter, teaming up with Ken Delanian, who is more of a typically like a Democratic administration stenographer. But in any case, them teaming up and breaking the story about charges against Comey are likely to be filed in the next few days, along with they're trying to get Letitia James on these sort of bogus mortgage fraud charges, which they've also tried to go after her, Adam Schiff and Lisa Cook, who is a Fed board governor over similar like, oh, you said it was your primary residence, but it wasn't really your primary residence thing.

42:37Ryan Grim:In any case, let's take a listen to MSNBC's Ken Delaney in detailing a bit of this. In office is expected to charge Tish James, the New York attorney general with mortgage fraud. And of course, Donald Trump, we all saw posted on Truth Social in recent days, exhorting his attorney general to charge both of those people as soon as possible. But again, you know, this is grand juries are secret. This is a fluid situation. It's also important to know, though, that the U.S. attorney, the Trump appointed U.S. attorney in this office, Eric Siebert, was essentially forced out last week, in part because he was refusing to bring these cases.

43:11We're told that he was opposed to prosecuting both James and Comey on these grounds.

43:16Ryan Grim:Put the next piece up on the screen. Delaney also writes some of the details here. Former FBI Director Jim Comey, for years the target of President Trump's ire, expected to be indicted in the coming days in the Eastern District of Virginia. full extent of the charges being prepared is unclear. Sources believe at least one element of the indictment, if it goes forward, will accuse him of lying to Congress during his testimony on September 30th, 2020, about whether he authorized a leak of information, five-year statute of limitations on that charge would lapse on Tuesday. Ryan, I tried to dig into the specifics of what they're saying Comey lied about.

43:52Ryan Grim:And, you know, potentially, well, it looks like they don't have more than what's in the public sphere, given the fact that this previous handpicked U.S. attorney was like, I can't charge him. There's not enough there there. But effectively, you know, he claimed, he stood by earlier testimony where he had said he had never authorized these particular leaks to the press. They're saying they have contradictory evidence. There's some question about whether or not that was true. But remember, if you're going to be found guilty of lying under oath, it requires that, you know, it requires specific intent that you knew you were wrong.

44:25Ryan Grim:I mean, it's a pretty high legal bar here and one that apparently the previous Trump-picked U.S. attorney did not feel that they had met. And maybe they're going to end up going with contempt of Congress, which would be a vaguer type thing. Usually contempt means you got a subpoena and you refuse to show up. Yeah. Because maybe they can't quite nail perjury. The timing is key. The testimony that you're referring to was September of 2020. Right. And the clock is about to tick on the statute of limitations. Like literally next week or something. Five years. Yeah. Very soon. And so basically he was asked if he leaked this information.

45:08What he did, and Comey is a slippery dude. And Comey, from my perspective, has basically abused his power at the FBI his entire career.

45:19Ryan Grim:Helped get Trump elected. And also helped get Trump elected. No gratitude at all for Comey. Because the data is quite clear. If Comey had not done both of those press conferences going after Hillary, both helped Trump, he doesn't end up winning by the 40 ,000 votes or whatever he won by. So we're in a completely different world if Comey had not abused his power. So that aside, the question was, did you leak these memos about your interactions with President Trump, particularly when Trump had lunch with him and told him, go easy on my guy Mike Flynn? That winds up in the New York Times. What he had done is he had gotten his car right afterwards, typed up a memo, and then he gave it to a friend of his.

46:02and then after he was out of office and so this is another argument that he makes for why this was fine he authorized his friend to leak them to the New York Times so he did not personally leak them

46:14Ryan Grim:Was it McCabe that leaked them? No, I think it was in Richmond Dan Richmond or something like that that guy, whoever that was, he's a professor somewhere he did an interview with the prosecutors like two or three weeks ago that's been reported and so it was after that interview where they're like, we just have nothing here. I didn't file anything. People can go back and read his September 2020 testimony. My recollection is that he did say, I did give it to this guy. He acknowledged that. If you go back and read the testimony, he sounds like a guy who's being deliberately misleading but is trying to stay on the legal side of perjury.

46:54Ryan Grim:Yeah. And so maybe that's why they'll end up with contempt. Which pretty much happens every day in this. Yeah, that's called congressional testimony. That's the way this works. I mean, and I think it's important to lay out those details. I think it's also important to say it's really not about the details. Of course it's not. Trump wants— Give me something. —hates this guy, wants to go after him, made that crystal clear to Pam Bondi, and now they are, along with Letitia James. On the mortgage, quote-unquote, mortgage fraud thing with Letitia James that they may be trying to indict her over. So the claim is—and there's this one guy at the Federal Housing Authority, Bill Pulte, who's like feeding this stuff to Trump, about Schiff, Tish James, and Lisa Cook.

47:31He's going through everybody's mortgage records.

47:33Ryan Grim:And with Tish James in particular, it seems like they really don't have a leg to stand on because at least what's reportedly happened is there was a mistake in a mortgage application for, she was actually trying to help, I think it was maybe her daughter, it was a relative, get a house here. And there was a mistake that said it would be her primary residence. And she emailed the person she was working with and was like, no, no, no, this is not my, this would not be my primary residence. So there's clear documentation that there was a— sure, there was maybe a filing paperwork mistake that was made that she immediately tried to clear up.

48:09Ryan Grim:And the idea is that if it's your primary rise, you get a better mortgage interest rate, something Trump would know a lot about as someone who engaged in routine real estate fraud with regard to inflating assets and deflating assets and doing whatever that was beneficial for him for getting a loan or lowering his taxes, et cetera. Something that Tish James actually went after him for. So that's, you know, that's the crux of the idea of, I guess, what they would go after Tish James. Now, the other question is whether or not a grand jury is actually going to, you know, indict. Now, they say a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich.

48:44Ryan Grim:But we have seen with this administration several noteworthy times, including with the sandwich guy here in D.C., where they were like, no, we're not going to charge him. Not going to do it. Now, D.C. is a different jury pool. than, you know, the Eastern District of Virginia, somewhat. I mean, D.C. is the most liberal jurisdiction in the country, but Northern Virginia is also pretty liberal. So it's not crazy to imagine that you could have a grand jury look at this and be like, we're not going along with this. The requirement at justice is supposed to be that you have an expectation at trial, a jury would find them guilty.

49:21Ryan Grim:And Delaney also reported that there was a memo that was sent to this new U.S. attorney saying that charges should not be brought against Comey. There's not enough evidence to establish probable cause a crime is committed, let alone enough to commit the jury to convict him. So sort of career prosecutors there put this memo together for her and she's like, well, the big guy wants me to do it. So I'm doing it. Yeah. I wonder if any of those, what are those, what those lawyers are going to do? It'd be amazing. Like, I don't think she'll be able to pull it off. Like, I don't think she'll be able to get a grand jury or a judge to sign off on this, but if she did, it would be truly amazing because I don't expect that these prosecutors who are, you know, these are Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, like whatever you think of them, like these types of prosecutors, I don't think that they would participate in it.

50:09And so this insurance lawyer would have to bring the case herself.

50:13Ryan Grim:Herself, who's never prosecuted a case. First criminal case. Like I said, I don't think it gets past the indictment phase, but if it did, be quite a spectacle. Yeah. And, but it's important to say, like, if the federal government goes after you in this way at all, even if it doesn't make it to try, even if you're found in a senator, whatever, I mean, it ruins your life. Then that's the intent, right? It's meant to ruin your life, put you through ruinous discovery, have you, you know, rack up ruinous legal bills. And just imagine that you had this federal government targeting you directly and in their sites.

50:46Ryan Grim:Like that, that would be a terrifying experience. And that's exactly what is what is meant to be done here and i mean it's openly admitted effectively by trump and you saw ken martin that who they wanted to make the u.s training for dc but he couldn't get through the senate so they now have game like three jobs ed martin yeah um again like ken martin's a dnc guy that's right uh gave like three jobs inside the justice department the weaponization of the Justice Department. And he came after, at the apparent request of Alex Jones, the FBI agent who was first on the scene at Sandy Hook and said he was now under investigation and wanted a bunch of information from the guy.

51:28And his boss told him, oh no, Todd Blanche, I believe it was, was like, oh no, no. We're not doing Alex Jones' handiwork on Sandy Hook. Are you nuts? And so they completely withdrew this letter. But still, the fact that Alex Jones can call the DOJ and get them to try to reopen Sandy Hook

51:53Ryan Grim:Oh, my God. shows how weaponized How far gone we are. this institution is. Yeah. Well, there's one last interesting clip I just want to play for you of Peter Navarro. And this is interesting because, of course, the right has been claiming that, you know, the Biden administration and the Obama administration, that they're the ones who weaponized the Justice Department against them and against Trump. And, you know, it's not like they don't have any case to make there. Yeah. They indicted him a bunch of times. Yeah. And they did that whole Russiagate thing. They did. They certainly did. They did that.

52:23Ryan Grim:And so they've been saying we're going to end this weaponization. They weaponized the government against us, et cetera, et cetera. And then you have Trump just brazenly like blowing past any sort of plausible deniability and weaponizing not just the department, just the entire government against his political housing administration. Yeah, the federal housing administration, you know, the friggin HHS as an anti-Semitism task force. Right. I mean, what are we talking about here? So in any case, Casey Hunt over at CNN asked Peter Navarro to explain that inconsistency. Let's go ahead and take a listen to what he had to say.

52:55Great to be with you. And it is kind of funny. I mean, I did go to prison. I did go to prison for honoring the Constitution. And I'm the only one. And meanwhile, there's a lot of people out there who should be in prison, in my judgment, and I think in the judgment of many people in the Trump administration. James Comey, it's the top of that list. Now, I don't have any inside knowledge. Is what's going on with James Comey, how is it not basically the same thing that you're saying happened to you? Because he broke the law and I didn't. Simple as that. Let me lay this out for you. The big picture, and again, I don't know what he would be charged with.

53:31There's so many things.

53:32Ryan Grim:Our reporting is perjury. There's so many things. So specifically, just as a refresher, Navarro spent four months in prison for two misdemeanor counts of contempt of Congress. He defied a subpoena from the House Select Committee investigating January 6th. He refused to appear for deposition or produced requested documents related to his role and efforts to challenged the 2020 election results and was sentenced to four months in prison and fined $9 ,500, according to Grok. So basically, they were like, they subpoenaed him and he just was like, no, I'm not showing up. I mean, that's pretty brazen, you know, in terms of securing a conviction against someone that's pretty brazen.

54:08Ryan Grim:So what I've seen, Ryan, is on this, on the free speech stuff, basically, some parts of the right will try to do an intellectual like, oh, well, here's why it's different and it's not the same and they did it and we're doing something completely different. But I see a lot of just like, yeah, they did it to us. We're going to do it back to them. And, um, you know, and we're going to come at them 10 times harder than they ever could have come at us. And you, you know, you guys were out there pressuring and getting people canceled over like COVID misinformation or whatever. Well, we're going to kick Jimmy Kimmel off the air and we have no regrets about it.

54:39Ryan Grim:What, whatsoever. That's where I see a lot of energy on the right, basically being not trying to hold any sort of consistent ideological principle, just pure revenge, vengeance kind of energy. And also zero sum. I saw Steve Bannon on his show last night saying, citing these Hakeem Jeffries comments where Hakeem Jeffries said, Hakeem Jeffries said, look, let me remind you that the statute of limitations runs beyond this Trump administration. So if you're committing crimes now, look out, there could be accountability. Which is, the irony here of Hakeem Jeffries doing absolutely nothing to resist the Trump administration.

55:20Ryan Grim:Right. And then claiming he's going to do something in the future. It's kind of the worst of all worlds. So what Ben is saying, look at that. What Jeffries is saying is that they were going to re-weaponize the Justice Department again when they take power and they're going to come after all of us. We're all going to jail if we don't put them in jail first. Yeah. Like that's that's his argument. He's like, and while we move so slow, he said, you know, the Democrats, they move with alacrity. Oh, my God, please. It's funny how what different worlds we all live in, because if you don't believe that, he can't believe that.

55:54There's no way he believes that because he's he's actually intelligent.

55:57Ryan Grim:Yeah. I mean, he is one of the few people that he did go to prison. Yeah. So he you know, I'm sure he's got his own perspective on it, colored by the fact that he actually went was behind bars leading up to the election for the same thing as Navarro. refusing to testify. Yeah. Well, we'll see. Democrats have... Democrats move with alacrity. Yeah, incredible. I'm going to have to look up alacrity because that's not my... It's not your understanding of what that term means. It's not in... I have been with Rasmussen University since 2013. All virtual. All of my professors throughout the entire journey have been nothing but supportive of making me reach my dreams.

56:34Ryan Grim:Rasmussen professors, they want to see you grow so that you can be what you want the school to be. I'm so thankful for Rasmussen University for being able to make it so easy and seamless. Rasmussen University. Find your seat and start now at rasmussen.edu. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. The July Savings Event from Apple Vacations is here. Book by July 23rd and save up to$400 off your flight and hotel package to Mexico, the Caribbean, Central America, Hawaii, or Europe. From all-inclusive escapes to bucket list adventures, Apple Vacations makes it easy to create memories with the people who matter most.

57:14Start today at AppleVacations.com or contact your trusted travel advisor. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. And now, another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance. With three kids, I'm always cramming the washer full. So when we needed a new laundry set, I asked the experts at Grand Appliance for a big capacity washer with a dryer that could keep up. They recommended Electrolux, and we love it. Advanced cleaning features with a massive dryer that gets everything dried the first time? Yes, please. Sounds like another perfect match from the Grand team. Shop GrandAppliance.com.

57:53Ryan Grim:By Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. All right, let's go ahead and get to this live update from that flotilla from Alex Colston of Dropsite News. The Global Samud Flotilla, a convoy of ships bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza, is getting closer and closer to the shore, but coming under increasing attacks from swarms of drones in the Mediterranean. And meanwhile, starting to get back up from European powers, including Italy, which has said it is sending a naval ship to assist the flotilla, as well as Spain, which has said it also plans to intervene. There's some suggestions from Ireland that they may also get involved.

58:38Joining us now is my colleague over at DropSite News, Alex Colston, from the Sirius. It's the ship you're still on. Is that right, Alex? That's right. It's called the Sirius Haifa because the boats are also named after Palestinian towns. Got it. Got it. So, and we apologize if many viewers get seasick from watching you kind of float up and down, but I imagine the seasickness is much worse among your crew. So I hope folks can just bear with us for the moment. So two nights ago, we saw the most serious attack yet on the flotilla, footage of which we just showed. Can you talk a little bit about what you know at this point about what kind of attacks there were and what kind of damage there was?

59:33Definitely. There were at least 12 attacks across nine boats. One boat was attacked twice with flashbangs. I think about four were also attacked with flashbangs. One had a chemical capsule fall to the deck, spray a member of the crew, and it fell into the water. The person sustained minor injuries. One of the flashbangs dismasted a boat, and that one was decommissioned, and so it's no longer sailing with us. and um yeah they they started around midnight and they continued till about three in the morning and around three this they they tapered off but we were all concentrated together and it was actually quite a kind of a remarkable scene which is that there was just the horizon and the boats and then every so often there'd be an explosion um and we would try to capture it because there's a lot of incredulity about the threat that the boats are under.

1:00:44And so we are a bit at pains trying to document the extent of the attacks. I mean, the footage you shared is from a security camera, and those security cameras are there not merely for our security. It's to broadcast to the world that the boats are under attack.

1:01:02Ryan Grim:I don't know why there would be incredulity about that, given that Israel is basically calling you Hamas. We can put this up on the screen from the Israeli foreign minister. This is C2, guys. They say, we have another proposal for the Hamas Samud Flotilla. If this is not about provocation and serving Hamas, you are welcome to unload any aid you might have at any port in a nearby country outside Israel from which it can be transferred peacefully to Gaza. Israel will not allow vessels to enter an active combat zone and will not allow the breach of a lawful naval blockade. Is this about aid or about provocation?

1:01:38Ryan Grim:Alex, how would you respond to that? I believe this was the most recent statement that they made. They've made a handful of them at this point. I can tell you what the organizers say and I can tell you what I make of that. But first to say that the organizers all say uniformly that if this were true, if Israel was willing to facilitate aid, there would be no real reason for the flotilla to exist. There'd be no reason for us to have independent civilian efforts to break the siege and to get aid into Gaza. So if it's a provocation, the provocation is Israel should deliver the aid, but we know that they're not going to do that.

1:02:21But we know that they're not going to deliver sufficient amounts of aid. They've funded UNRWA. They've implemented a deadly, quote-unquote, humanitarian distribution mechanism that is helping to corral Palestinians, and then they are killed by Israeli forces. There's nothing to be believed in the statement that Israel is interested in facilitating aid to the people in Palestine. What have you heard from either Spain or Italy? Or what have the organizers heard? And what are they sharing with you? And have you started to see this Italian ship, which said it would be there for rescue, by the way?

1:03:05It made clear that it would be there for potential rescue, which is distinct from saying we're going to be there to offer defense to this flotilla. Have the organizers heard from these governments, or are these just statements that they're catching on social media just like everybody else? No. The members of the steering committee have met with members of the Spanish parliament. There's an Italian member of parliament on board who is in contact with the Italian government. These are active and ongoing negotiations with European governments to come to an understanding about what kind of protection or support these governments are going to provide.

1:03:51The Italian government, for instance, has said that they would facilitate the aid themselves via a Catholic charity. The organizers have rejected this proposal because the plan is to open up the humanitarian corridor. But at the same time, though, the organizers have also said that they welcome any and all governments to participate in facilitating the humanitarian mission. But the fact of the matter is that we are going to sail toward Gaza with or without a military escort.

1:04:28Ryan Grim:Alex, how are you feeling at this point? On the one hand, you've got Israel outright attacking your boats and calling you Hamas. On the other hand, you do have at least a couple of European nations that are saying, hey, we're going to, you know, make sure that you at least don't get killed. You know, I mean, just like as a human being, how are you feeling about your personal safety right now?

1:04:49So so. It's hard to say what's going to happen. and I mean I say to myself at least and I think a lot of people agree especially on the ship that I'm on because we talk about it a lot we're trying to do what governments won't do and that requires a certain level of conviction and courage and commitment and at the same time whatever we do and whatever we're able to succeed at doing and trying to open it opening a humanitarian quarter It's minimal next to the courage of Palestinians who face being killed every day. So I feel a little bit like I don't want to be over-alarmed. I am nervous. And at the same time, I think the standard that has been set for courage is not with governments, but with the Palestinian people.

1:05:50I mean, and I think that that's good of you to say, but at the same time, you know, there's no such thing as a Courage Olympics. And we all have one life on this planet. And, you know, whether you lose it in Gaza or on a ship because Israelis are sending some message, you've still lost a life. So, you know, I would discourage people from, including yourself, from like discounting what it is that you guys are going through. How are the rest of the people feeling going? It feels like a bit of a roller coaster. Two nights ago, it seemed like they were presaging a much more violent attack. and then the intervention of the Spanish and the Italian navies.

1:06:41How was last night? It seems like last night was fairly quiet, which went against the expectations and may have had something to do with the intervention of the Europeans. How was last night? It was low-key by comparison to the night before. The waters that we're sailing into are increasingly getting more rough because there's a storm between Greece and Gaza. And we're making preparations for that. Just to respond to the other thing that you said, you know, I think for me at least, we can control what we can control on those boats. Which is that to demonstrate that we're a humanitarian mission.

1:07:26We're nonviolent. We're committed to humanitarian aid. and everyone on board is also extremely conscientious and well organized and we take care of each other and we and you know as it said we protect us and i think in that respect i have to have trust in that um and i have to believe that that the solidarity among the people on board and across the organization is enough to sustain our attempts and i and i actually do believe in that quite firmly. Of course, I'm worried for my personal safety. And I think even more than that, and this is what all the organizers and crew members say on board, we're far more concerned about one another.

1:08:10Like in the case of an Israeli interception, right? I think most of our impulse is to put our hand in front of someone and prevent them from being harmed by Israeli soldiers or not let them be dragged off or harassed. You know, we're under strict orders not to do that so that we don't provoke the Israeli military. And I want to say that that's harder, for me at least, than to imagine being personally assaulted or whatever. Like, I just want to say that I think that's worth underlining, actually, that there is a real spirit of solidarity that's a matter of protecting those around us as we, like, have this very high-risk action that we're taking.

1:08:52Ryan Grim:Alex, my last question to you at least is, what's your fondest wish for what you're able to accomplish here? My fondest wish? Yeah, what would be the best possible outcome? That we make it to Gaza, for one. That European governments, if not the United States government, I don't have much faith in that, would help facilitate opening a humanitarian corridor, that the ships that are following behind us will be able to maintain and keep it open so that there is a humanitarian corridor by sea, and that the Israeli government will be so overwhelmed by the public's support for measures like this that real significant humanitarian aid can be given the people in Gaza.

1:09:48And I actually don't think, at the last couple of days, especially with the naval vessels joining us, I'm starting to believe more and more that it's not a wish, that there are real developments taking place that are making it increasingly likely for that outcome. And again, I understand it will be a difficult thing to achieve, but at the same time, we are in completely uncharted waters here. Never has there been a military escort for any of these missions over the last 17 years during the blockade. Never has there been this much public pressure. So I would say the geopolitical situation is far more favorable, even if the winds aren't favorable for us for an outcome like that.

1:10:33So I actually don't want to treat it like a remote possibility. I want to treat it as a live and significant one. and also while you're here i'll put in a plug for the work you're doing for drop site alex believe it or not the entire time he's been on this boat has continued his editing duties for for drop site including including our new newsletter drop site daily which impressive um the time zone is actually good for you because right it's uh your your the time you're handling is less in the middle of the night um but it's always amazing i'll wake up and see that Alex has already gone through a full edit of the newsletter, and then he's on to editing further pieces.

1:11:13How's it been to continue normal life, so to speak, off the boat while being kind of surrounded by Israeli drones in the middle of the Mediterranean and unable to see even a speck of land? What's that experience been like? I mean, I miss normal life a little bit. I can imagine. I think I mentioned this to you before, Ryan, but I mean, I grew up on boats. I'm not, you know, I don't get seasick. I really enjoy being on boats. And, you know, trying to like maintain both my like day job and fix a toilet on the same day has been a bit difficult sometimes. um but you know i uh i i have a lot of i've made a lot of friends and i have comrades and people who i trust and we have camaraderie and and um and you know we we try to be happy and and sing and stay afloat and uh i don't know i i actually think compared to normal life sometimes that's a lot better because it's not isolating.

1:12:26It's not atomizing. We're all in this in one mission and one purpose. Yeah. And as I mentioned, we've got the newsletter and the editing from here on in, you know, just, you know, be, be safe, keep your head down, keep the toilet working. And, you know, just wishing you all the best and the last leg of this journey. Yeah.

1:12:50Ryan Grim:Thank you so much, Alex. We'll be following it closely, of course. Thank you so much. Shortly after I enrolled at Rasmussen, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It was like a bomb had just been dropped in my life. I reached out to Rasmussen. They immediately were like, Rosa, take what time you need. You can come back when you're ready. We are cancer-free today, and I'm just so grateful for Rasmussen, for all of their support throughout my journey, and for my own village. Rasmussen University. Find your seat and start now at rasmussen.edu.

1:13:49your trusted travel advisor.

1:13:56And now another appliance triumph from our friends at Grand Appliance. I love hosting summer parties, but dread reaching over a hot oven door to juggle appetizer trays. So I asked the experts at Grand Appliance for advice, and they recommended a Bosch wall oven with side swing doors for easier access. It's amazing. No reaching over the heat, and they installed it in no time. Host like a pro with expert advice from Grand Appliance. Shop grandappliance.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.