327. The Future Belongs To Brands That Build Community With Chrissy Hammer, Sunshine Buns

0:00I mean, I think the why behind the brand is always really impressive. Any kind of founder that can tell that and articulate it well. And then, you know, just the sheer hyper growth from 500 retail doors in 2025 to we're going to we're going to hit 4 ,300 by the end of this year. So, you know, it's, I think that's, I think, like I said, everything else, the beauty and, and having these great conversations with people like yourself is that I think naturally, um, good tidbits always come out.

0:34Chrissy Hammer:Ready to hear more. This is your host, Dan Lohman, and this is the Bulletproof Your CPG Brand Podcast. At the end of every episode, there's a free guide to help you go deeper into the topics we discuss. Now let's roll up our sleeves and get started. Chrissy, thank you so much for coming on. Can you please start by telling us a little bit about yourself and who you are and why are you doing this? Yes, yes. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I am the co-founder and CEO of Sunshine Munz. We are a frozen premium cinnamon roll that's pre-baked. All you have to do is heat it and eat it.

1:10No oven required. the recipe really um the legacy really the dna of the entire brand started before i was born my mother came up with this recipe in the 1970s and would sell it for local communities and events for fundraising and never in a profit profit situation she wasn't concerned and really starting a business but she wanted to create a product that she could sell and give back to her community. And she did just that for about 15, 20 years. I think she did it until her arthritic hands could no longer support the fundraising achievement, although she still does bake all the time, just not at scale like that.

1:53So it was really great. You know, I, as a young child, I would sell them to my elementary school teachers and my middle school teachers that, you know, I'd go home and say, my mom's making the buns and, or I'd go to school and I'd say, my mom's making the buns and they would say, great, sign me up for three dozen. And, you know, so my entire life, I essentially have been selling sunshine buns. Um, in 2022, myself, my husband and our two best friends, uh, decided we were going to turn this into an actual business. It's something I had been wanting to do for a long time with my mom, but she wasn't really interested in, in doing the business part of it.

2:31Um, she's incredibly helpful for the brand, still very present, lives 30 minutes from our R &D or 30 seconds from our R &D kitchen. So she's there all the time. But the four of us started it in 2022 outside of a date night and a play one night. And we bought the GoDaddy site. We launched the Instagram and we started baking and selling from our homes within 10 days of that decision. So, you know, we made the decision, we acted on it. And it was very difficult to manufacture so many, especially because I have five kids. My co-founder has three kids. We had businesses and we were very busy. So we decided to open up a store in 2024.

3:19We opened that in August and it was fantastic. But pretty quickly we realized, oh, you know, our main goal is to eventually sell, get acquired by someone. And the brick and mortar model is a little slower than wholesale. They're both complex and hard and challenging, but the wholesale model definitely helps you to get to those revenue points quicker than you would normally see on a brick and mortar franchise model. So in early 2025, we decided to go the wholesale launch and we developed that along with co-packers and what the format was going to be in the packaging. Launched wholesale in 2025 and then 2026 has been a wildly accelerated growth years.

4:14So by the end of the year, we're going to be in select targets. That's all I can say right now. Another national retailer, which I can't say yet, will be launching in Costco in August and several other independent conventional grocers all over the country, totaling about 4 ,300 by the end of the year. So it's exciting times over here. Did I answer your question, Dan?

4:44Chrissy Hammer:Yeah, no, no, actually more. Great story. I appreciate it. So let me back up a little bit and unravel some of that. I first found you or first bumped into you, if you will, through the LinkedIn feed, and you were talking about your product at Expo West. And it was the passion, the enthusiasm in your team. That's why I became really enthusiastic about following and follow and seeing what you're talking about. And then I appreciate the fact that you share everything, the not so good stuff, the difficult stuff, the founder troubles and stuff like that. I can't think of what are the termonies. Oh, imposter syndrome all the way through.

5:23Chrissy Hammer:Why am I doing this? And God, does this make sense? So let's talk a little bit more about that part of the journey, because I think what's interesting and the reason I really wanted to have you on is because you have a lot to share, a lot to offer. So let's talk about that part of the journey and then we'll jump back into the future, into the current. Awesome. Yeah. I mean, I very much as a founder, CEO, brand builder, and consumer, you know, I'm simultaneously all those things. I value the origin behind a story and I value, especially in the season I am in, which is hyper growth and, you know, often feels like I'm drowning without a life preserve.

6:09I need to hear those other stories. I need to hear that founders have struggled and won and they have, you know, fallen flat on their face and won a race. I need to hear all of those things. So I decided that if I needed to hear that, I needed to be someone who would share my journey and exactly what that looks like and how we're winning, how we're losing, how we're, you know, the many times we've failed. And it's essential as a brand ambassador. And frankly, you know, anyone building during this time should be sharing that so that people coming behind us or even people ahead of us can see where they've been and seen something maybe I post on LinkedIn and say, gosh, I really should be sharing more about what I've learned.

7:04And then for those that are coming can really say like, wow, you know, Chrissy had no CPG experience and she jumped into the deep end of the pool and just went for it. And I can probably go for it too. And I think as humans and entrepreneurs, we owe that to each other that, um, to share our life lessons. And it's something I take a lot of pride in and I'm very, um, I'm thoughtful on when I will post and how I will post and the mark I want to leave on this world. So it's incredibly valuable to me. So thank you for being a fan and following along.

7:39Chrissy Hammer:I think your story is great. And I love the way that you're interacting and the way you're sharing all those really raw moments. And sort of a side note, before I hit the record button, we were talking a little bit. And I said, I have a lot of resources, et cetera, and you're interested in those. So let me kind of give you that segue. so years ago i was a founder and a ceo of a business a startup a really cool business that's not we'll talk about that some other time but the point being is i was going to the incubators i was doing everything i could do to put myself in your shoes effectively back then learn about this etc so it's one of the reasons i started the podcast and my point being is that i interview people like you and other people who have been through this so there are a lot of great stories.

8:25So for example, episode 100 is the, some of the icons in our industry.

8:30Chrissy Hammer:I, the question I asked them is what would you tell your younger self? And I think I'm at episode 225 now. So the point is there's a lot of history. So point being is go back and check that out. But what you're saying, you're absolutely right. I could not agree with you more. I think one of the biggest, I hate to say it this way, but failures of this industry is that we don't do enough to help founders like you with everything you need to know to move forward. And like you said, how do I know if I'm doing it right, et cetera. So first of all, I'm impressed with your growth. And so you've absolutely, you've got to have an incredible team behind you.

9:09Chrissy Hammer:Can you talk a little bit about how you assembled the team? Yeah. I mean, we are quite lean at this point. It's myself, my husband, and then our two partners. So we have four founders, which is incredible. Often people are like, I'm just going to build a loan. I think that it's, while it has its challenges, co-building, having someone that's in the trenches with you is vitally important, more so in your down periods than in your up periods. So I think that's essential to have great partners. And then, you know, as we looked to building the broader team, particularly where are our holes and blind spots as the four founders and what needs to be filled first based off of those blind spots.

9:58And that's often in operations when you're coming from someone that has little to zero CPG experience, which is all four of us, and in the financial piece, especially when we're going from such small revenues to such large revenues in such a short period of time and, you know, building the fundraising deck and exactly what that looks like. This is a razor margin thin industry, especially when you couple that with frozen and trying to hit mass market, all those things, velocity and that. So having someone that really understands your blind spots before saying, listen, I understand marketing. Now I need to hire someone under me that can offload that.

10:42I think your initial steps should be where are huge blind spots that are vitally important to the success of this company. Maybe I work a little bit longer in the areas I don't necessarily want to, but I'm good at so that I can hurry in and engage with those blind spots and get them covered before I relieve some of my initial duties. So we've brought on a CFO who has great experience. He comes from General Mills. So that's incredible because he knows exactly what we're doing and has done it before. And then we brought on a COO who comes from several hyper growth consumer brands, which was an important story for us.

11:26And I think as you're building out your team as a founder, it's important to say, can this person get me to 5 million in revenue, 10 million in revenue, 50 million and 100 million? Or can they only get me to 2 million? And if that's the case, maybe it's based on funding and you can only pay someone, you know, a little amount and you can't get these kind of all-star people. I think you need to take a step back and say they might be expensive, but they're worth it because things can happen so quickly in CPG from a wholesale perspective that you have to be able to have that foundational team really built into your structure.

12:11in order to win, win well, not run out of money and be able to support the operations, you know, so filling the blind gaps and then, you know, paying for A plus talent, maybe more before you're ready to, it will cost you far more to hire someone bad than it will to hire someone good. I appreciate

12:36Chrissy Hammer:you saying that. And actually that's exactly what I was going to say a little differently, but exactly what I was going to say, because the biggest challenge that founders face is that they're the biggest bottleneck. So you're exactly right. One, I agree that you should know every aspect of your business. You should be able to do everything or at least have an understanding of it, but then to find the right people to management, to manage it and to help you grow and scale brilliant. And to your point, a lot of companies sadly don't appreciate wisdom and experience. they look at an amount and they try to hire for that amount or for whatever that role is without thinking about how the right person can help you punch above your weight so for example with you i would never ever ever ever recommend you going into costco this early but obviously you've got the right people that can help you do that right and so the point is on one hand that would stall your growth but if you're able to do it and make sure you've got the right product Like that's going to explode your growth.

13:36Chrissy Hammer:Costco alone is going to, it's amazing. I used to be a grocery manager at Price Club before it became Costco. Yes, yes. I know the kind of volume they can produce. So congratulations with that. Thank you. Thank you. So your thoughts, please go on with that. No, I completely agree with you. And going back even further to what I was saying and what you were also saying is that if you are new to this industry, it's your responsibility as a founder to learn as much as humanly possible about this industry. Because when the time comes where you can hire someone, you have to be able to know what this person is saying.

14:19Are they speaking truth? Are they just talking circles around me? Are they truly experts in what they're doing? Because I, as the founder, have digested so much information that now I have become, you know, I've essentially been awarded my PhD in CPG. And, you know, it's been tremendous sacrifice. Like I give up all of my spare time to consume information and knowledge as fast as possible so that I know what to look for to be able to build a stellar team. So you don't have to be an expert all the way granularly in trade and demo, but you better know enough to be able to hire a true expert to be able to do that for you.

15:04Instead of just looking at a resume and being like, oh, this person worked at Kodiak Cakes, they know what they're doing. You have to be able to articulate the questions that will then spark either a great strategy or a not so great strategy. And you won't know that unless you make yourself a true expert in this incredibly complex field. So I completely agree with you. And yeah, the Costco, you know, we're eight weeks away. I posted about it today on my LinkedIn and it's incredibly scary. We're not doing a roadshow, which is wonderful, but it's also scary because like you said, the energy at Expo West and the trade shows we go to is tangible.

15:45And when the founders aren't there, the product has to be able to sell itself. So then it becomes, how can you build the media and content and demo structure to pick up the slack and get that messaging across when the founders can't physically be present to dance in the halls of Costco and say, try our buns with the bun babes and the bunkinis, you know, everything that comes along with the the tangible aspects of the brand. How, how can you, um, become strategic enough to have massive velocity through what your content and, um, sell through strategy is without founder being present. So that's, um, that's what we're working on very quickly as we speak.

16:33Um, and exactly what that looks like for the August launch.

16:37Chrissy Hammer:Congratulations. I'm just so impressed with what you're doing. So, Thank you so much. Again, a lot to unpack here. So I've got a recommendation for you as far as demos. He was on episode 317. And he is an expert in the industry. His name is Andrew Therian. I would recommend him head and tails above anyone else. So you can actually go listen to him. He's been on four times. Honestly, I trust him more than anyone in the industry. But more importantly, he just gives a master class in how to do what you're asking. Okay? I would love it if you could connect me with him too. I will. That would be great.

17:15Chrissy Hammer:Yeah, I count on it. So there's that too. I love the fact that you're smart enough, the way you put it, my words, that you're smart enough to know what you're not good at. One of the sad things I say is I talk to a founder, I mentor a lot of brands and I'll hear a founder say, well, you know, I did accounting in college, so I'm going to do the books and they're lousy at it and they hate it and they're miserable. They're not out doing what they want to do. So, you know, their super place needs super power is something else, someplace else. So I love the fact that you are aligned with learning it, but then farming it out to the right people.

17:50Chrissy Hammer:And then the other product, other thing is you talk about the product selling itself. This is the Achilles heel, literally, of every brand I work with. And here's the analogy. If I ask you, Coke, Pepsi, does it name? You name a brand. And you go to 100 different people and say, what does that brand represent? it, you're going to get several different reasons. Right. If you have, if you go to do the same idea behind your brand and you get several different reasons, you've got a problem. If the customer doesn't understand you. And I use Patagonia as perhaps the best example. And the reason for that is everyone knows who, what they stand for, what they are, super premium brand, everything else.

18:29Chrissy Hammer:So leveraging that your brand story is critical. So let me say one other thing I want to throw at you is that game where if I tell you a story and you tell someone else and they tell someone else and so on and so forth, by the time it comes back around to you, it's unrecognizable. That is the thing you need to fix first. And I've got a few strategies around that. I'll send you offline. And I actually talked about our podcast. but the point is if you as a founder like you said could could get that energy to whoever and put that in front of whoever's working with your brand communicating to the retailers etc especially Costco that's going to be a game changer for you yeah I I absolutely love what you're saying and would take any you know advice or experience that you could share I think from where we are and how we speak as a brand, it was incredibly vital and important for us to establish a brand universe in everything that we do so that when anytime someone comes into contact with Sunshine Buns, it's the exact same feel that, you know, whether it's a billboard or a marketing campaign or an influencer, UGC content play, or even a demo that whatever the consumer, whenever the consumer touches sunshine buns, it's the exact same feeling.

19:59And that, you know, that goes all the way down to our creative briefs at food shows and our creative briefs at brand photography and product shoots. And, you know, when we're telling our Instacart story, all of this is super connected and it has to be a giant loop. And I think we understood enough about brand to be able to establish what that brand universe looked like before we even launched, you know, certainly in 2026, but we really established what do we want it to feel like? So that if you could, you know, like a pick a pick a celebrity and say that person is what sunshine buns feels like you want your brand to feel that easily to digest, you know, from a consumer standpoint.

20:50So we've been really intentional about that. Absolutely.

20:54Chrissy Hammer:Well, thank you for saying that. So question along those lines, you collect my email address. If I'm on your website, what do you do with that? Well, that's a great question. I don't exactly know what the email marketing people are doing that I will have to get on that ASAP. I know that there has been, you know, follow up on newsletters and, you know, sign up for the bun club. And because we have that brick and mortar store, so you can come in, they get value points and things like that, you know, free stuff. But I don't know if we're actually launching any sort of campaign. So I'm glad you brought that up, because I'm going to get on them ASAP and say, hey, let's do a retail strategy, you know, because up to this point, all the inquiries that come in, I think that our email marketing is probably only thinking about the food store and not the retail.

21:47So I'm glad you brought that up. I'll get on that ASAP.

21:50Chrissy Hammer:So you want some homework? Yes, I would love homework. I have nothing going on. So, okay. I know you're just, you have so much free time. Just kidding. So you're out. So let's get into some strategy right now. This is going to help you. And this is something that I do that's radically different than anyone else I've ever talked. So I have homework for you. So you, like everyone else, you're collecting my email address. The problem is this. Most brands, they talk at us. You know, I'm Pepsi, Coke, doesn't matter what brand it is. I'm wonderful. You need to buy my product. Why? Because I'm wonderful.

22:22Chrissy Hammer:And because our product's great and you need to buy it. Okay. That's not the way you want to communicate. So many people with influencers and stuff like that, they think it's all about getting content out. Wrong. wrong you want to have the same conversation with me on your email list that you're having with me on LinkedIn that's so smart yeah and so instead of just talking to me saying hey try our new products you're responding you're connecting with me you're commenting you're sharing with me you're telling me something raw about your business and let's say all of a sudden that you come up with a new product you want to go I want to make chocolate or banana which one should I go you could ask me as one of your loyal fans and I will tell you I will help you co-create the next thing I want you to build that's such a smart idea thank you and then the cool thing is not only do I save a lot of on the R &D but I can also leverage that at retail and so I could go into retail and say hey I've already got people lining up to buy this thing you need to get it on the shelf oh that's so smart like that and then yes here's the best part once you do that I'm on your email list right yeah you like chocolate or banana you say okay here's what everyone said they want banana they like banana best would you like us to send you some to try it oh that's such a smart idea yeah and i can validate whether or not it's a good thing yeah before you start making packaging before you start having it yeah thank you and then on the best and then this keeps going getting better then on top of that if i walk into a store today and you're on my list you're subsidizing i'm subsidizing the volume your your promotional dollars there are wasted there are more effective ways to reward me as a customer if you are nurturing me properly on my email list through your list then you can reward me and then i can hopefully also get other people to interest in so you can take an occasional shopper convert me into loyal evangelist and drive traffic in the retailer and still get it.

24:22Chrissy Hammer:So we can talk more about that. But my point is put that thing to use. Okay. Yes. That's such a good idea. And you know, we're, as you say that, you know, I'm just thinking live, it's, it's wonderful because we do have a brick and mortar. So we already have so much first person data, right? Because people come, come in every single day and get it. So we're, we're also able to back up, you know, like two best flavors for the extension line we already have that so now we know that the consumer coming in already loves those so now we can really pressure test okay so between this top seller and this top seller what's your favorite top seller you know so that's that's wonderful to couple with the retail brick and mortar that's it is wonderful yes well that's great with strategy and let's go one step further the problem with your breach your brick and mortar store is that your your local neighborhood is not going to be the whole world of course and here's the problem here's why this matters Chrissy if I'm a brand like Coke Pepsi I mean I could tell you all sorts of stories I know I keep saying those brands when I worked for Unilever we came up with a really really cool product that was going to reshape the category and we tested it and all the consumer groups said hey this thing's amazing they always say that okay right yeah to retail they didn't bother to make sure the thing would fit on the shelf the refill and so the point is if you're asking me the consumer through your loyal tribe etc then you can help validate that and then you can build strategy around that and then again leverage you at a retail and here's the best retailers don't want your product on the shelf they want the customer that buys your product of course yeah now you know something else about the category, about the shopper, about the basket.

26:10Chrissy Hammer:When I buy your product, what else am I buying, et cetera. Make sense? That is so smart. Yes. Thank you so much. No, it's not homework. It's so smart. I want you to do that. And I want you to find other brands that you can leverage so that you could co-promote. That's such a smart idea. Yeah. I mean, your audience with their audience. So thank you. Oh, that's fantastic. So what are you doing talking to me? You've got homework. No. So anyhow, so those are a lot of the strategies that I talked about. And so again, podcast is a wealth of information, but let's get back to you. I love the way that you communicate on LinkedIn.

26:47Chrissy Hammer:Like I keep saying, the fact that you're inviting me into your conversation. A lot of people, like I said, just post and say, look at what I did or look at what I've got. You're saying, Hey, here's something that's going on. Can you get me? Can you help me? or I'm really struggling with this or being a mom and how does it work and all that other stuff. Talk more about, like you're saying, that authenticity, where does that come from? Yeah, I mean, I went through, I think I have always been naturally, I was just born naturally, not shy, very outgoing. I have a, you know, I have a, I'm a leader, natural born leader.

27:32I find, you know, I can be drawn. I played sports. I have very much enjoyed sharing and winning and lost my entire life as a collective, right? Not just as an individual. I think something that hits closer to home is when I was 26, I was, I went through a really painful divorce and I had a child and there was such little access to people saying that they had survived divorce. You know, it's not like there was this, uh, forum back in 2007 that I could go to where they would say we're divorced survivors. You know, it was just like, what is my immediate community giving me to help me get through this awful thing at such a young age.

28:25You know, like those are 26 is very young to have a baby very young and to go be divorced very young. Um, and I would find myself walking into a room while I was going through this very tumultuous time, looking at a room of people and saying, I wonder how many of these people are divorced. And if they could raise their hand, they would probably tell me that they made it through their divorce, but I can't do that. And that struck me so clear in that moment, Dan, that I was, I promised myself that if I went through difficult things, I would share it with my immediate community. You know, whether that's online, my friends at a lunch, you know, on a podcast, at my local church, at my PTA, whatever it is, if I went through something that was difficult, I would share.