333. The Best Product Doesn't Win. The Product That Solves the Right Problem Does. With Marise May, Cha's Organics

24:46Daniel Lohman:And I found the same thing throughout the store, especially when you get into plant-based, into gluten-free, into all of the stuff that we care about, organic particularly. And my point is that this is what we need to help the retailers appreciate so that they can build bigger baskets, keep their customers in the store and build more loyalty with that customer while they're there. So the point being is that, and this is where all my content is focused, is that if I can help you help our community better communicate to the retailer the value that we bring in terms of the consumer that we drive into the store, that's the win.

25:26Daniel Lohman:Your thoughts? I think that's spot on. I think that's absolutely true. I agree because I know that the consumer who looks for our product, they care about their health, they care about their family's health, they're willing to spend maybe that dollar more to get premium quality, you know, gum free or like the gluten free vegan organic snack for their kids, whatever the case may be. That shopper, I know because I'm that shopper. I know how much my basket can often be worth it can be a little you know we we spend a lot of our income on food because food's what matters and and at the end of the day health is wealth right so um yeah that resonates with me because like it will draw in a customer who will look for those higher value products and seek them out so if we can bring that customer into the store i agree i think that is a win and and but then again how do so one thing is we us bringing the customer in so that means that's a customer who might have seen us at a trade show or a consumer show, followed us on social media, or someone told them about our brand.

26:26So somehow they became aware of our brand, and we draw that customer in. And I love that as a key message to deliver to the retail buyer or manager. How though do we communicate with a customer who's just walking the aisles at a store, shopping for, you know, they want to pick up some coconut milk to go home and make their curry. there's five different brands I know our look is is different it's exciting you know we have a premium product and a lot of people have tried it and they know it but a lot of people haven't and my curiosity is always in in how to reach that customer you know what is it in the product itself that can stand out and acquire that customer when all they're doing is just scanning the aisle and they don't have time to go on social media and like look at our latest podcast and what is this brand all about?

27:13You know, I'm just curious your thoughts on that.

27:15Daniel Lohman:That's another good question. So this is not meant to be a commercial for mega food. I'm not, you know, I no longer work for them. I was as a consultant, but the point being, what I wanted to share is that if I go into the store and I buy a$5 bottle of vitamin C, thousand milligrams, that sounds pretty impressive, right? Big bottle, right? Anyhow, that's just expensive urine. If I spend 20, 30 bucks, whatever it is to buy their stuff, the way they make it, et cetera. Because, and by the way, in terms of processing, heat, they don't put it together with heat the way that other brands do. So anyhow, all the nutrients, et cetera, are in that product.

27:52Daniel Lohman:So the point being the value, okay? One, the thousand milligrams is not going to solve my problem as a customer. To your point, it's going to create other issues with all the other stuff I'm putting in my body. Yeah. So when you talk about your product specifically, one, how do we communicate that? So building awareness and whatnot. But the other thing I want to challenge you to do is let me ask you, if I sign up to your list, what do you do with my name? What do you, how do you, if I give you my email address, what happens next? Well, we should have a welcome flow of emails. However, I will say that we're currently revamping our entire website and newsletter because it's been kind of unloved recently.

28:36We've just been so busy that we haven't given it the attention it needs, but that would be a great way to educate more and to really, I guess, gain people's loyalty is to have a great welcome flow of emails where they really get engaged and learn about our brand, I guess.

28:51Daniel Lohman:No, I'm watching, and this is where I'm going. to this. We're not doing that part that great, I'll be honest, the newsletter right now. We really have to, we're in the process of revamping the whole thing. So it will be great soon. We're going to change it. So thank you for sharing that. So I came up with something called the Shopper Signal Flywheel. And the point is this, if I get onto your list, I'm interested in your product. You can have a conversation with me. So instead of using it as a couponing device, like most brands do, have a conversation with me one-on-one and start asking me questions.

29:24Daniel Lohman:How do I use a product? What do I like about it? Let's say that you wanted to come up with a new product, chocolate or banana. Which one do you like? Well, Dan, which one do you prefer? And I'll say chocolate, okay? And then you say, well, you know, most everyone said chocolate. So here's the product in a generic or looking wrapper. What do you think about it? Before you go into production, before you start sourcing, before you start spending money. My point being is that I can help co-create your products. One, two, as you're listening to me, and this is the most important thing, you're gaining valuable insights.

29:59Daniel Lohman:You're learning from me in my voice how I use the product. You can then take that to the retailer and say, here's a real customer. Three, you're pre-selling this stuff, your products, so you can go to the retailer. Look, we've got people lined up for this. You just need to put it on your shelf. Four, by communicating like this, you're creating an ecosystem outside of retail so that, let's say something happens to the store and you get kicked off all the shelves. Sadly, if those things kind of happen, you future-proof your brand. So there are a lot of advantages to that. So anyhow, the point being is that there are ways to communicate better with that consumer.

30:42Daniel Lohman:And as you communicate with me and help convert me, you know, up your value ladder from just a curious consumer to a loyal evangelist that appreciates and understands everything that you said, now I'm going to start evangelizing to my community. That's how we build this. Make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I like that actually. And that's good, Very good feedback as we're sort of revamping that whole side of our website and our e-com and our newsletter to use that two-way communication. You know, we're not just feeding information. We're actually getting information that can help us on new launches and, yeah, even pack design and everything.

31:24Very good.

31:26Daniel Lohman:Let me pause here because this is the opportunity I want every founder to hear. Your sales report can tell you what happened. It cannot tell you why a shopper chose your product. what they almost purchased instead, what message mattered most, what disappointed them, or what might turn an occasional purchase into a habit. Your email list should not be used only to distribute coupons and brand announcements. It can become a two-way shopper signal system. Ask one useful question. Listen to the language your real customers use. Learn what they value, what they need next, and what you could do to make the product easier to understand, choose, and recommend.

32:05Daniel Lohman:Then use those signals to improve your product, packaging, promotion, retailer conversations, and repurchase strategy. I call this the Shopper Signal Flywheel. I created a free guide to help you begin using this strategy with shoppers that you already have. You can download it instantly at RetailSolve.com forward slash guide 31. You can also download the guide and review the show notes and find everything mentioned in this episode at retail solve.com forward slash session 333. Now let's get back to Maurice and how try organics turns its values into relationships shoppers can understand and support.

32:42Daniel Lohman:Thank you. There's so much more you can make trademarked. There's so many other things you can do with it. And the point being, and thank you for saying that Mindy's, is that so the big brands, they talk at us. I'm a big brand. Buy us because we're good. Why? Because we're good. Why? Because we're fantastic. Why? Because you need to buy us. It's always about them. So now you're going to change the messaging. So you're talking to me as an individual, I feel heard, I feel seen, I feel part of your community. And now I'm going to help support your brand. Yeah, fascinating. That's very true. I think a lot of people don't have that platform to express, you know, what they really want, what they want from their food, what's important to them.

33:25And it is valuable information. Like you said, you don't have to go out and pay for it from a data set you can I think that's why we used to really like early on we felt we benefited a lot also from doing demos and doing consumer shows because you would have that live interaction and I found that very valuable it wasn't just about selling the product it was finding out what's resonating with this person in front of me what does this person in front of me really care about you know when I'm describing the product do certain things kind of fall flat and are there certain things where you just see them light up you know I found early on that often when I would just kind of like talk at people like I did before with the whole nutritional science thing you'd see like their eyes glaze over and be like no it's really high in lauric acid and then and then and they'd be like like get me out of here but you say something with um heart you know something with impact um we'd explain how you know we're helping to save wild elephants in Sri Lanka and that would just resonate with people they'd be like oh wild elephants you know that awakens something inside of me and I feel like wow that's really cool I want to support that you know so I noticed that early on and I realized okay like as a brand we're I like to geek out and like talk about these things but this isn't where we go with our messaging you know like we don't market on technical fact-based you know that's not what we do we really we try to reach people with their values with their emotions and create that emotional connection with people because really I think most decisions are made emotionally.

34:50And sadly, in food, I think a lot of brands manipulate that and they create, you know, this false sense of excitement over really things that are actually bad for people. We try to do the opposite, you know, we try to create genuine excitement, because now people realize, oh, I can have a lasting impact with through my actions through my small purchase, I can make a difference. And I think people value that people want to do the right thing. And we give them that opportunity. But that's something I learned really on one on want interactions. Okay. What works, what doesn't work? So yeah, leveraging that on a, on a bigger scale with thousands of people in a newsletter is a cool idea too.

35:25Daniel Lohman:Well, thank you for saying that. And I will include that as this week's free guide. I always include a free guide in every episode. So thank you. And let me go one step further. So when you're talking to the retailer, first of all, most brands, they use panel groups and I cannot tell you how many products I've seen where the brand group has said, hey, our product score is really, really high and it fails. And the problem is the panels that they're talking to to get the consumer advice aren't the consumers that are buying your stuff. Okay. They're more generic. And sometimes they just tell you what they want to say.

36:01Daniel Lohman:I'm not going to say they lie, but the stuff can be very mistakes. Exactly. So when you think about it, where I'm going with this, the retailer needs three things. They want a product that they know can earn a profit in their category, this contribution. So base sales increasing, that's your contribution. That's what they take to the bank. One, two, they want a competitive advantage in the market, meaning that you're doing something to help them grow and gain more market share. And three, they want more traffic in their store. So with that said, if you can develop a story for the retailer that talks about your consumer in your consumer's voice, again, the market basket, all that stuff, that's something they don't have access to.

36:44Daniel Lohman:So while the big brands are going to come and say, well, this is what consumers think. Well, that's a generic consumer. And, you know, I don't know if I trust it, but if you can say, here's what you can do, where I'm going with this is that I met a brand, don't want to mention the name, but they were actually popular bar brand at this point, but they started in an entirely different category, but they they had an organic product and it was authentic and they were scattered throughout the store in several different departments and I put together a very informal Facebook survey for them and we used their customers feedback and they went to the retailer plus some other data etc and they got into all 1600 Safeway stores in the produce section and they grew from sub 200 ,000 over 3 million, et cetera.

37:33Daniel Lohman:And the point being is that if you can speak to the retailer and tell them about what their consumer is looking for, that's the opportunity. Makes sense? Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. And I think when you mentioned that, it's funny, we've never used panels, you know, we've, maybe it's not as we should have, you know, every once in a while you launch a product, you know, actually, what were we thinking? Like, that one's not going to work, but most of them have been successful. I would say that like, Like, you know, probably over 80 % of what we've launched, maybe 90%, I think we've had success.

38:04And, you know, I think a lot of it comes down to also really being in touch with the consumer as we really are that consumer too. You know, we build products that we believe in because it's what we would want to use for our family. I know for myself as a parent, you know, I'm a mom. I have two kids. My partner, Chanaka, he's my husband. So he has two kids too. We have two daughters. They're great. They're amazing. they're athletic, they're busy, they're always on the go, you know, and they are totally plant-based in the sense of vegetarian, dairy-free, strictly gluten-free, you know, for dietary intolerance reasons.

38:41And we try to get as much high quality organic food that's low in any kind of like added sugars and additives and all that. So I really resonate with that consumer. And I think that consumer resonates with our products. And so it's not a stretch for me to think, okay, how will I communicate with you know the mom who's looking for a healthy snack she can trust for her kids when you know for just for example with our coconut rolls which are which are by the way really taking off in the states right now which is exciting so something about our coconut rolls is really resonating with the folks down there which is really great um i think it's just that and we didn't put a lot of marketing activity i'll say into these products they've just kind of taken off on their own which is which is very exciting um and i think with our coconut rolls what's really reaching people on top of like the cute visuals and the animals, which is something I'm proud of, because I'll say I designed it, but I really co-designed it with my family.

39:33And, you know, Chanaka had some input, he wanted that Hawaiian look. And then the kids really helped me a lot with the colors and the animals. So I'd say we kind of co-created that as a family. But something really resonates. And I think it's, you know, beyond just the cute packaging, it's this clean, simple ingredient, you have no idea how many people because I do our social media, I see people just literally put our ingredients on social media and say, this is a great product, you know, just from the ingredients. So it's like clean, it's just organic heirloom rice, organic coconut milk, very minimal sugar and coconut sugar.

40:03And then you've got like pure ingredients, there's no additives, there's no seed oils. And so it's like, but then you taste it, and it's like, okay, it's gluten free, it's organic, it's vegan, it's all these things, but they taste really good, you know, like the conventional consumer loves them. So I think that that kind of product like I understand how exciting it is as a parent to be able to give something to my kids that checks all the boxes but doesn't taste like just some kind of dry generic cardboard you know it actually tastes good and then figuring out like how to communicate with that consumer or the kid or whatever it's not so much of a stretch because we have a family we are that consumer we understand the pain points we understand you know things like I'll have messaging on my social media like you know as I'm traveling and having trouble finding food that my kids can eat because everywhere you go, it's like, is it gluten free?

40:51No. Do you have anything vegetarian? No. You know, is it this? And then you literally have to walk out of places like feeling that frustration as a parent, but then being able to go on my social media and say like, hey, don't get stuck hungry on a trip. Make sure you pack a couple bags of coconut rolls. So you and your, you know, your family can snack on the beach or whatever, because it's true. You might not find something like that wherever you're going. So like, I think I understand the consumer, I understand the pain points, and it's easier for us to communicate and to understand their preferences.

41:17Although I think we can always do better. So always welcome. We always welcome advice on how to message those things. But yeah, I think relating to the consumer is so important. That's what we try to do.

41:29Daniel Lohman:Fantastic. Well, now you've got homework. I mean, not literally homework, but I mean, leverage this. Anyhow, that strategy is going to help maximize what you're doing. So I'm excited that you're doing that. Thank you for sharing all that. And one of the cool things about what we're talking about is your ability to give back to consumers, to different programs that resonate. Let's talk about that because as you're putting together your new strategy, that needs to be in there, the personal side of you, because that's going to resonate. When I'm buying a product, I don't want to know that it's a faceless brand.

42:07Daniel Lohman:I want to appreciate and understand you because that's where the authenticity comes from. So can you talk a little bit about how you give back and then how you communicate those values as well. Well, one of the important ways that we give back as a brand is through Fairtrade. We've been a Fairtrade brand since we started, and we're actually Canada's first and only Fairtrade certified coconut milk. So because our volume of coconut milk is so high, it really is our best seller by far. Most of our Fairtrade impact comes from coconut, but it's not only coconut. We also have Fairtrade spices. We have Fairtrade tea with our masala chai black tea, and those are very important products to our line because we know the communities who they support are important and we know what the alternatives look like especially in tea so we're proud of those products as well and even with our products that aren't fair trade certified we do work with partners overseas in Sri Lanka who are very on the ground very involved with the communities who grow the products who package the products and we always make sure that everyone along the line is being respected and only respected but their lives are actually being enriched you know that we're giving back and that's part of our sort of more regenerative business philosophy is that we're not only sustainable we always want to give back so we don't sustain we regenerate we actually build the way that you build soil health year over year with compost with green manure with you know roots in the ground we build community we build even the people within our team you know we just we have that philosophy of continually improving and continually growing growing together so with fair trade, one of the nice things is that there's a set standard minimum price, but there's also a fair trade premium that goes along with the fair trade promise.

43:44And what's really nice about the premium is that this is actually a pool of funds that goes outside of the actual product. So the farmer grows and sells the product, or it could be some, in some cases on a coconut orchard, they could be workers, but workers that are either treated sort of as independent farmers, they're still in a farmer's association. So they come and they work on the orchard as if it's their land or they could be workers there or workers on someone else's land. Bottom line is everyone's getting a fair price. Everyone's getting fair treatment and they're receiving and their communities are receiving these fair trade premiums.

44:17What's exciting about the premiums is that actually it really helps to build communities. So it's not only the farmers, but it's the whole farmers community normally who benefit. We've seen fair trade premiums go towards things like getting more access to fresh water in a community that's way up in the mountains in rural Sri Lanka or having a footbridge to cross, you know, a little stream, but that's difficult for children or elderly people to cross. That could be as simple as that for the whole community. It could be building a community center or a daycare so that all the children in the community have access and paying for the salary of a teacher so that everyone and all the families in the community have access and that helps that helps the whole family um or it could be things like farming tools seedlings organic fertilizer inputs training sometimes um some fair trade premiums will go towards um women's empowerment projects so like helping with uh either teaching skills or having equipment like sewing machines we've seen like in a small rural town in Sri Lanka where they're growing spices a little shop set up where women are selling clothing to the neighborhood so people can buy clothes but they're also making extra money.

45:25So these are all ways through fair trade that we can empower communities. And we also have handmade packaging with our spice boxes where the women making these products are actually living in rural Sri Lanka where there's not much employment opportunity. And, you know, often they're at home with a family. So this gives them an avenue to make money in a fair and respectful, equitable way with their hands and actually hand make these boxes using all eco-friendly materials. It's cute packaging for our products. We love them. it avoids having to import like you know another packaging product from china for example or just from somewhere where it's just it's just packaging at the end of the day it doesn't have impact right so this is a way that we can leverage the fact that we have packaging to create impact and these women are actually working from home with their hands making income that's reliable that is giving back to their community and it's like win-win so we look for these win-win opportunities where it's like okay how can we you know we're in this situation how can we now use the fact that we of packaging to make that a positive, you know, create positive impact for someone else.

46:25We didn't have to do it. You know, sometimes it's complicated because we have to then, you know, how many boxes do we have overseas and did they count them right? And we've got to order them ahead and it can be a little more complex. But at the end of the day, we know that that that matters. And actually, when we were in Sri Lanka in 2021, when the whole country had just shut down, we went right after the reopen the country, which is a really interesting time to be there with the whole transition that was happening with organic and everything. It was, it was quite interesting. I could talk a whole hour about that.

46:54But when we visited these women, what we found out that was that because they also make handicraft products for tourists, like, you know, little ceramic elephants and stuff like that, and because there had been no tourists, our packaging was their only source of income for that entire time. You know, so you just, you don't always think about those things. And, and I remember at the time thinking, wow, cause we're paying so much on container prices, you know, our container prices had skyrocketed. At one point, we were just breaking even that year. Like we just couldn't even make profit because all the shipping cost was so high and everything was complicated.

47:25But then I'd stop and think, but wow, like we've still had so much impact, you know, and that in itself is a win, I think, to be able to provide that for other people. I mean, for us, that matters anyways.

47:37Daniel Lohman:Good for you. So thank you for doing that. I mean, And that's great that you give back. And the other thing is, because you do that, those non-employees are going to act like part of your family. They're going to bid over backwards and treat you well. Yes, we have these long-term partnerships. It's one of these things that you see, and I say it all the time because we experience it. Fair trade and this kind of regenerative relationship that we build with our partners, it goes both ways. You know, sometimes in times of shortage or challenge or scarcity, you want to make sure that you have a solid partner.

48:13And I think companies who kind of use extractive policies and don't look for that long term partnership, they're going to lose in the end because it's not getting any easier, let's face it, you know, with with climate change and global insecurity and all these crazy things happening all the time and trade wars and, and, you know, petrol prices and shipping on and on. there's always some kind of challenge. And we have found that by having that respectful and regenerative and long-term relationship that we build with our partners from shipping to packaging to raw material sourcing all along the supply chain right down to the retailer is that those relationships actually matter.

48:53And I know for a fact that sometimes our shipment will make it onto a container where someone had to choose and ours will get on because we've built those solid partnerships where people, we're like family. It's true. Every step along the way, we're like family and we all treat each other that way, which is, which is nice.

49:11Daniel Lohman:And I appreciate the fact that you share those values. So thank you. So now you're going to, you're going to turn your consumer base into regenerative, however you want to put that, but you're going to use that, that, that mindset with them. I think that's fantastic. And the other cool thing about this industry, the reason I love it is because those relationships, even back at home, you know people in the industry that can help, or you know where the resources are. And so the thing I love about working on quote unquote, this side of the fence, meaning natural, small brands, organic, et cetera, as opposed to big brands is over there.

49:47Daniel Lohman:When I was working for Unilever right out of college, well, not out of college, but when I was younger, we used to joke about the only way that we were going to get promoted is we figured out a way to knock off our boss. Obviously we wouldn't do that. But my point is, it was such a different mindset. Then I went to work for Kimberly Clark and we weren't the pretty kids on the block, like you see in a lot of companies, but everyone worked together in that same mindset. That's here. Now I'm not saying that company's like that today, but back then it was. But the point being is that in this industry, there are always people to reach out to to help to get help from if you've got a problem etc i love the community i really do love the health food community it's the best industry it's great is there anything that we haven't covered that you want to cover um gosh we've really covered a lot but um well we just uh we'll be announcing a cool uh update soon so if anyone uh is in canada especially in ontario I've got something really cool coming up with Costco that we are about to announce.

50:50I think a lot of people are going to get excited about this. So stay tuned for that announcement. And we are launching three new flavors of coconut rolls in the northeast United States in the next three months, I would say. So this fall, they'll be rolling out. We're really excited about these flavors. We have a passion fruit that's actually made with pure organic passion fruit puree. And one of the cool things about passion fruit is you can grow it intercropping with coconut in an agroforestry model. So that's one of those crops that's kind of exciting to be able to offer because we're able to like maximize some agricultural space and create more income for farmers while giving this great product.

51:33So no flavors added. It's pure passion fruit puree. I love that one. we've got a salted caramel that's actually made with pure sea salt and caramelized fair-treat organic cane sugar so there's no flavor added again no seed oils no garbage it's so delicious and the probably most exciting one is the chocolate filled because this is a chocolate filled wafer roll that is to die for and it's vegan it's organic it's gluten-free but you would never think I mean like anyone will fall in love with this and it's like a really rich just like delicious chocolate so we're super excited about those three SKUs um if anyone's in the northeast like that whole New York area and around um you'll be finding those rolling out soon so we're excited for that launch and uh and they are also coming to Canada I know you have a lot of listeners in Canada um over the next few months stay tuned and they'll be coming into stores in your area probably sometime in October so yeah very excited about that thank you for sharing that sounds

52:32Daniel Lohman:exciting. In fact, I will put a link to you, to your brand, to your website, etc. So people can follow along and join your newsletter. Yes, I promise to send more. We definitely don't spam people. I'll promise you that it'll be like, I signed up for this newsletter. I'm not getting many messages. But we're going to change that soon. We're going to we're going to have great newsletter content. Well, I'm so thrilled that you came on. So thank you so much for your time. I'm glad. And I'm glad. And thank you for sharing what you shared about your trip to Sri Lanka. That was pretty cool on LinkedIn.

53:05Daniel Lohman:Yeah. And we have more coming. I did just get back, but I'm still posting. We've got some cool, if you're on Instagram, definitely follow us. We have some cool video content there, reels, and I highlight everything in our Instagram highlights. So you can actually watch like all the stories we've shared because we're so busy there. Sometimes I just share a quick story, but LinkedIn as well. I love to bring people along as much as possible over there. And yeah, thank you so much. I have really enjoyed this conversation and I know we could talk forever as we have in the past. So yeah. Well, thank you.

53:37Daniel Lohman:I appreciate it. Thank you. And, and appreciate all the advice. Thanks so much. Thank you. Manice, thank you for sharing your story and for the work that you and your team are doing. The lessons I hope you take away from this conversation is that authenticity is not a slogan. It is the consistency between what the founder believes, how their product is made, what the shopper experiences, and how the brand communicates. Maurice and Chai Organics have spent 20 years building that consistency into their business. The next opportunity for every mission driven brand is to stay equally close to the people who buy their product.

54:14Daniel Lohman:Listen to them, learn their language, invite them deeper into the story, then use those signals to make better product, marketing, retail, and growth decisions. You can learn more about Maurice and Chai Organics through the links in the show notes. You can download the free Shopper Signal Flywheel and review everything mentioned in this episode at retailsolved.com forward slash session333. Thank you for listening to the Bulletproof Your CPG Brand Podcast. I look forward to seeing you in the next show.