The Printing Press: The Invention Built on Debt and Sin

29 Jul 2026 · 46 min · 27 chapters

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In short

The invention and business rollout of Johannes Gutenberg’s movable-type printing press, driven by debt/equity financing, court disputes, and demand for cheaper books; then how printing scaled indulgences and helped spark the Protestant Reformation.

Guest backgrounds

No podcast guests are interviewed in the provided transcript. The episode is hosted by Jacob Goldstein and Robert Smith (Business History).

Key claims

  • Gutenberg’s printing work is reconstructed largely from surviving lawsuits and ledgers, not myths.
  • Book demand rose due to expanding governments, literacy needs, and Renaissance library building; paper lowered material costs, making labor (scribes) the bottleneck.
  • Gutenberg’s press enabled mass replication (e.g., identical editions), changing economics and information flow.
  • The “Fust made Gutenberg bankrupt” story is overstated; Gutenberg continued printing after the dispute.

Notable examples

  • Gutenberg’s earlier mirror business for 1439 pilgrimages; investors sued after a death.
  • 1450 financing: Johann Fust loans 800 guilders at 6% interest, later adding 300 more; collateral was the “apparatus.”
  • 1455 court: the Helmersberger Notarial Instrument; debt vs equity dispute; repayment tied to money not used for the printing project.
  • 1454/1455 Gutenberg Bible: 158–180 copies; 42 lines/page; wide margins; some printed on paper, some on parchment.
  • Post-dispute success: Fust and Peter Schaeffer print branded Psalters (1457) and expand to Paris; printing spreads across Europe.
  • Indulgence boom: by 1500, tens/hundreds of thousands printed; Martin Luther’s 95 Theses (1517) and rapid reprinting help fuel reform.

Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.

Chapters

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The Life of Johannes Gutenberg

0:00 to 0:28

Learn about Johannes Gutenberg's early life and background.

“Did you ever notice how you spend hours shopping online only to pause at checkout because you wonder if you trusted enough to hit buy now?”

The Life of Johannes Gutenberg

1:20 to 2:00

Learn about Johannes Gutenberg's early life and background.

“make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use.”

The Life of Johannes Gutenberg

2:42 to 5:01

Learn about Johannes Gutenberg's early life and background.

“Today on the show, the invention of the printing press, which is a surprisingly modern story.”

Gutenberg's Mirror Business

5:01 to 8:00

Discover Gutenberg's entrepreneurial efforts in the mirror business.

“So here's the story we can put together.”

The Rise of Book Demand

8:00 to 11:16

Examine the increasing demand for books and its economic implications.

“He must have been sad looking out over a hundred convex mirrors all staring back at him.”

Economic Pressures and Opportunities

11:16 to 14:00

Understand how economic changes created opportunities for Gutenberg's innovations.

“Why are they putting a lot of money into this?”

The Cost of Printing on Paper

14:00 to 15:02

Learn how the shift from parchment to paper impacted book production costs.

“And the availability of paper is profound for the book business because when a scribe is writing a book on parchment, the parchment is a huge chunk of the cost, maybe most of the cost.”

Gutenberg's Role in Printing

15:02 to 16:15

Discover the economic pressures that led to Gutenberg's invention of the printing press.

“Woodblock printing had been used for hundreds of years in Asia.”

The Nature of Simultaneous Inventions

16:15 to 18:27

Understand why simultaneous inventions are common and how they differ in Gutenberg's case.

“And we know, you know, he had done some kind of work related to goldsmithing.”

The Impact of the Printing Press

18:27 to 20:55

Explore how the printing press transformed communication and the spread of information.

“We talked about it early on in the Edison and the movies story.”
Show all 27 chapters

The Catholic Church and Indulgences

20:55 to 23:07

Examine how the Catholic Church's need for indulgences influenced Gutenberg's business.

“when there is actually this world historical event that's going to be good news for Gutenberg's printing business.”

The Catholic Church and Indulgences

25:16 to 26:05

Examine how the Catholic Church's need for indulgences influenced Gutenberg's business.

“only to pause right before you hit buy now?”

The Gutenberg Bible's Reception

26:10 to 28:00

Learn about the early reception of the Gutenberg Bible and its significance.

“You're listening for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use.”

The Gutenberg Bible Experience

28:00 to 28:50

Discussion about the physical characteristics and historical significance of the Gutenberg Bible.

“although some others say the number is 180.”

The Role of Scribes in Printing

28:51 to 29:52

Exploration of scribes' reactions to the printing press and their continued importance in decorative aspects of books.

“And the other thing I remember about it is that the margins were very wide.”

Profit and Evolution of the Gutenberg Bible

29:53 to 31:00

Examination of the printing process and financial aspects of producing the Gutenberg Bible.

“Maybe Gutenberg was like, no, no, I'm not going to automate your work out of existence.”

Court Battle Between Gutenberg and Fust

31:01 to 36:12

Detailed account of the legal dispute between Johannes Gutenberg and Johann Fust regarding loans and investments.

“So some of the Bibles were printed on parchment, some on paper.”

The Aftermath of Bankruptcy Claims

36:13 to 37:59

Discussion on the impact of Fust's claims on Gutenberg's business and the continued evolution of printing.

“Everybody will say they made him go bankrupt.”

Fust and Schaefer's Success

38:00 to 41:42

Analysis of how Fust and Peter Schaefer capitalized on the printing press and the subsequent growth of their business.

“One thing that is true is Fust, the lender, I'm not going to call him a banker, but the lender, the financier, seems to have surpassed Gutenberg in the printing business.”

Gutenberg's Later Years and Legacy

41:43 to 42:01

Overview of Gutenberg's later life, his pension, and his lasting impact on printing and society.

“So there is the end of the Gutenberg story, of Gutenberg the man.”

Announcement of Gutenberg's Benefits

42:01 to 43:31

Learn about the formal provisions and support Gutenberg received.

“We will clothe him every year, always like our noble men, and give him our court dress.”

Sponsor: Navy Federal Credit Union

43:31 to 44:17

Discover promotional offers for new members of Navy Federal Credit Union.

“Plus, an additional$250 when you spend$2 ,500 within 90 days of opening.”

The Impact of Printing on Indulgences

44:17 to 45:55

Understand how the printing press revolutionized the sale of indulgences.

“That tiny hesitation, the one where you wonder if it's trustworthy, can make or break the sale.”

Martin Luther's 95 Theses

45:55 to 48:41

Explore Martin Luther's arguments against indulgences and their significance.

“Robert, this last idea, we're doing this kind of epilogue to the show.”

The Proliferation of Print Media

48:41 to 50:37

Learn how Luther's writings led to a media revolution in Wittenberg.

“And it's happening, like you could argue, it has been argued, it is happening partly because the invention of the printing press led to this proliferation of indulgences.”

The Unforeseen Uses of the Printing Press

50:37 to 51:58

Discover how the printing press created new demands and uses beyond its intention.

“if you want to be a little anachronistic, in Wittenberg.”

The Unforeseen Uses of the Printing Press

54:35 to 54:50

Discover how the printing press created new demands and uses beyond its intention.

“the warmest hospitality from the locals, vibrant culture, and pristine beaches.”
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Transcript

Automatic transcript. May contain errors.

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1:16Today's episode is brought to you by ChatGPT for Business. As a listener of this podcast, you're looking for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use. ChatGPT for Business can help. Chat GPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in Chat GPT. This means your business can move from question to answer and code to rollout quicker. Join over 10 million business and enterprise users worldwide already using Chat GPT for Work. Download the Chat GPT desktop app or contact sales to learn more.

1:59pushkit too quick no it was perfect pushkit stop you got it

2:15crank up the siege engine because we're going back to the middle ages i will wear my leather corset We're doing a biggie today. We are. Maybe the biggest one we've done yet. The printing press. The printing press. Love it. The printing press. Yes. It is everything, including a business. I'm Jacob Goldstein. I'm Robert Smith, and this is Business History. A show about the history. So why don't we go way back? Of business. Today on the show, the invention of the printing press, which is a surprisingly modern story. There is debt. There is equity. There is a court case, competition, international branch offices, and the Protestant Reformation.

3:00Our show today begins with a man named Johannes Gensfleisch Zurladen. Did not see that coming. I'm probably saying it wrong because I don't speak German. Johannes Gussfleisch of the House of Laden. He was born around 1400 to relatively rich parents in a town called Mainz. It's in what's Germany today. At the time, it was part of the Holy Roman Empire. Which Voltaire said, of course, was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire. When Johannes is around 20 years old, his father dies, and his mother comes into possession of a house called the Hofzum Gutenberg, House of the Good Mountain. And Johannes becomes known as Johannes Zum Gutenberg.

3:45I guess last names worked differently back then. There are many Johanneses, and you're like, oh, the Good Mountain one. He's over at the Good Mountain house. So what do we know about Gutenberg? There's a famous engraving of him. If you've seen a picture of Gutenberg, it is from this engraving. He's got this long white beard. It comes down to like two points on his chest. Like ZZ Top? Yeah, like ZZ Top style. He's wearing a fur-trimmed hat. Gutenberg didn't look like this. The picture was made like 100 years after he died. There's no pictures of him, as far as we know, from his lifetime. And I love this, right?

4:23And as we'll see, there's all this myth, even as you get into the story, sort of embroidered about him. I mean, we don't know what he thought or felt, you know. As far as we know, there's no diary or trove of letters. But, of course, he printed books. And a surprising number of the books still exist. And also, conveniently for our purposes, he wound up in court a few times. And the paperwork, the court records actually still exist. And so a lot of what we know about Gutenberg and the invention of the printing press and how it was used comes from these basically lawsuits over money. Which is great for us.

5:01Business history. So here's the story we can put together. At some point, we know Gutenberg became an affiliate of the master goldsmiths. Not an apprentice, but an affiliate. Exactly. So it's different. So the master goldsmiths are a guild, which is, you know, the medieval version of a union. Guilds were a big deal. Maybe we should do a guild show someday, actually. He was not in the union. He, like, worked with gold is basically what that means in some way. So we know that. He's into metal. And we also know that he was an entrepreneur. And now here I am – this is like an anachronism, right? I'm sort of projecting backwards.

5:39There were not entrepreneurs in the modern sense. The word didn't exist. But yet, I think you'll see as we go through the story, he was a hustler. He was a guy who started businesses. His life is much more that way than I would have thought for someone who's living in, you know, the end of the Middle Ages, basically. But then again, like, he is the guy who is going to invent the thing that's going to create the modern world. So maybe it makes sense. So the first kind of hustle, the first business that he starts that we know of is mirrors. Gutenberg gets into the mirror game, and he finds this great, you know, 1400s kind of niche, which is he's going to sell special mirrors to religious pilgrims.

6:24What made the mirrors special? They're special. They're like convex mirrors that are specially made for the pilgrims to take on their pilgrimage. And I'll explain why. I'll explain why. So what's going on is in 1439, there's going to be a pilgrimage to this German town to see these relics that are displayed just once every seven years, like a piece of the gown that Mary wore the night Jesus was born, the loincloth that Jesus wore on the cross and is stained with blood, that kind of thing. Yeah, this is like Woodstock for religious pilgrims. Yes, yes. And so the idea with these mirrors is, you know, when you get your moment before the holy relics looking at them, you hold up the mirror and the mirror can somehow capture the holy power that the relics have.

7:18And to be clear, he didn't invent this idea. This was a thing that people were doing. Spread by mirror merchants. Perhaps, perhaps. But he's going with it. He's going with it. And he actually gets a couple of investors who have equity in the project. Essentially what we would call equity starts making the mirrors as far as we can tell. And then when your classic pieces of medieval bad news arrives, the plague. On the back of a rat. On the back of a flea on the back of a rat. It's like panics in the stories we tell in the 1800s and 1900s. You know, everything's going fine. And then the plague happens.

7:54The plague is the financial panic of the 1300s and 1400s. very good. Pilgrimage is delayed until 1440. He must have been sad looking out over a hundred convex mirrors all staring back at him. One of Gutenberg's investors dies. Oh, man. Could have been plague. Could have been anything. It's 1430s. You could die of anything at any time. And the investor's family, the investor's family, the guy who has died, his family sues Gutenberg over whatever, over that guy's stake in the business. Come on. Act of God. Yeah, I don't know what the details are. I think Gutenberg wins. But there is this really interesting, just kind of enticing detail, mystery in the lawsuit.

8:37And it's just a few words. And what we know from the lawsuit paperwork is that Gutenberg is afraid that his trade secrets are going to get out. Of course, there's, you know, no intellectual property as we know it in this era. You try and keep your secrets secret. In particular, he says he is worried that visitors to the dead man's house are going to see, and this part is a direct quote or at least a direct quote translated into English, four pieces lying in the press. The press! The press. The printing press? We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. But he tells somebody to take these pieces apart so nobody can tell what they are.

9:15Historians, of course, have been speculating for hundreds of years about these six words. Was he already working on the printing press? Unclear. We don't actually know what happened with the mirror business for that matter. Next piece of evidence, next time we have a clear view of what's going on with Gutenberg, it's actually 10 years later, 1450. So Gutenberg, I will say, as a 15-something man, is 50-ish at this point. He's not a kid. Some might say he's washed up. Some might say he's at his peak. So it's 1450. Gutenberg is around 50 years old, and he makes another deal. He enters into another business arrangement.

9:50This time, it's with a guy named Johann Fust. And Fust agreed to lend Gutenberg 800 guilders at 6 % interest, collateralized by the apparatus. Oh, this is definitely... Ooh, the apparatus. We're getting excited. Ooh, an apparatus. I like the sound of that. It's like he has a code name. Das Apparatus. Sorry to all our German speakers. So 800 guilders is a lot of money. It's enough to buy 100 oxen or four houses. These figures, by the way, come from a book called Gutenberg, A Life in Books by Eric Marshall White, which is a good book, a really helpful book. It's relatively recent and it's really careful.

10:37It's a really careful biography of Gutenberg. So it was really helpful in kind of untangling the myth from what we know. So, OK, so they make this deal and two years later, Fust makes another investment, agrees to put in 300 more guilders right away, up to 800 more overall. And here we know from the kind of documentary evidence that we'll get to that this is explicitly for the work of the books. This is the work of the books. It's happening. And so there is if we zoom out now, like we're right in the documents, really in the in the micro, if we zoom out to the macro for a sec. It's interesting to think why.

11:16Why are they putting a lot of money into this? We don't have the aha moment. The big surprise story where, you know, he was, I don't know, he left some type somewhere and his wife sat on it and she gets up and he sees the impression. Yes, right. Or he falls in some ink and there happens to be a little coin on top of the ink and it gets on his shirt and he thinks, ah. We do know this. We do know this. The demand for books was really high in Europe at this point for some interesting reasons and kind of varied social and economic reasons. And political, actually. So you have governments are becoming more of a thing, right?

12:00It's not just kings occasionally going to war. You're having kind of bureaucrats, sort of modern governmental functions emerging. And for that, you need people who are literate, who have gone to school and read books to learn how to read. So there is demand for books. You have the Renaissance getting going in Italy by this point. And all the rich guys in Italy want to build their libraries of books from classical antiquity. There's actually this little story that I love of a businessman in Florence, a guy named Vespasiano di Bisticci. One more time. I love it. Vespasiano di Bisticci. That's the name.

12:40Da Bisticci. I believe he started out as a paper merchant, but he winds up creating kind of like what to me seems like a book factory in the 1440s. What factory? Without a printing press. So what happens is Cosimo di Medici, you know, of the Florentine Medici, decides he needs his library, his personal library, and he goes to da Bisticci. And Bisticci has like 55 scribes writing for him, like, you know, copying out manuscripts for Cosimo. And these 55 guys create something like 200 books in two years. So that's basically like if you round it to 50, you know, it takes a guy six months to write a manuscript.

13:23And of course, these are beautiful, whatever. But like that's a lot of labor. Yeah. And that's a lot of money for each book. And a lot of money for each book. Now, there is something making books cheaper, and that is paper. Paper. I presume Cosimo's books would have been on parchment, which is what, you know, they had been using in Europe for a long time. It was still the high-class thing. And paper is profoundly cheaper than parchment. Parchment, of course, made from animal skins, costs a lot to grow an animal to make the parchment. And paper has been around in Asia for quite a long time by this point.

13:58But it has recently come to Europe and has become sort of industrialized, right? And the availability of paper is profound for the book business because when a scribe is writing a book on parchment, the parchment is a huge chunk of the cost, maybe most of the cost. But once you have paper, almost all of the cost of making the book is the cost of the labor, the cost of the scribe's time. This is a classic business situation, right? You have a high demand for a product, and the demand is going up. The thing that you use to make the products, the input, the expensive input, is getting cheaper with paper.

14:36And so what you are left with is a bottleneck, a low productivity part of the process, and that is the scribes. And so we could talk about, oh, was it an insight? Did Gutenberg see something that no one else saw? Really, there were economic pressures. Somebody was going to do this because it's obvious when you have a bottleneck, a very expensive bottleneck in the process, you should try to automate that. And there was printing in the world. Woodblock printing had been used for hundreds of years in Asia. And it was in use in Europe somewhat. You know, obviously you carve sort of a single page's worth of typically an image, sometimes some words, into a woodblock.

15:19But, of course, it's static, right? Right. You got your block. You can print one page, but that's it. We've all done this with potatoes when we were kids. Yes, it's that. Moveable type, which is, you know, as we know what he's going to invent, is way more dynamic, way better. And by this time, by the mid-1400s, movable type had been invented also in Asia. In Korea, they had even used metal types. But both in China and Korea at the time, they used pictograms. Each word was its own character. So you'd need thousands of these little things in order to have a book. To have a book, right. Much less practical than when you have an alphabet and you can do whatever, your uppercase and your lowercase and dozens.

15:58The order of magnitude is dozens and you can print anything. And so there is this question, was Gutenberg copying an Asian press? It doesn't seem like it. There's no evidence that he knew that people in Europe knew, you know, in any kind of real way about these presses in Asia. It seems like when Gutenberg is doing this work around 1450, he's working from first principles. And we know, you know, he had done some kind of work related to goldsmithing. His dad was affiliated with the mint, so maybe he knew something about the way coins were made. We know he's like a hustler. You know, he's entrepreneurial.

16:37And it seems like Gutenberg, on his own, invented or invented for Europe the movable type printing press. Arguably the most important invention ever to come out of Europe, up there. You mean what, the croissant? The croissant. The steam engine. Oh, the steam engine, of course. Internal combustion. Yeah. Huge, yeah. So there were a few other biggies, but one of the biggies. Fondue, but certainly one of the biggies. The earliest image we have of a press is not of Gutenberg's press in particular, but it's not that long after. It's from about 50 years later. It's this form of picture that was popular at the time called the dance macabre.

17:16You have pictures of people in everyday life, and then you have death kind of dancing through, I guess, to remind you that everybody's going to die. Maybe they're taking away these people. Memento mori. Yeah, memento mori. And so in this image, you can see like a Gutenberg-ish press. Are you looking at it? Yeah, they're these kind of skeleton-looking dudes. Yeah, that's death. Those are death. Yeah, I got that. And one of them has his hand on the person who's picking out the type, who's putting the type together. Right, they call that guy the compositor, right? So for each page, he arranges the letters, and the letters are backwards, right?

17:51You arrange it all backwards. And there's a guy who's doing the actual press, which looks like one of those things where you pull the lever and it goes down. Like maybe you'd use to squeeze olive oil or something. Yes, they had used presses like this in Europe for a long time. Yeah, and there's another skeleton dude like touching that man. That's amazing. And that's basically it, right? The press is actually simple in its way, right? He's putting together these different things, but it's not that complicated. And that raises this question in my mind, right, which is we've talked before about simultaneous invention.

18:27It seems like all the big inventions that we've talked about, it is really not ultimately like one guy figuring it out. You know, well, Edison. We talked about it early on in the Edison and the movies story. Lots of people were trying to figure out movies. Photography was out there. It was clear somebody was going to figure out movies. The telephone? Famously. Like literally people racing to the patent office to get the first patent. I mean even calculus. Calculus, right? Leibniz and Newton. And the reason, of course, for simultaneous invention is what we talked about a little bit earlier. There is the need, you know, technology has come up to a certain point and people are using that as a launching pad for something else.

19:05And so it is natural when people are trying to solve the same problem, they know about the same information out there in the world, they're going to come up with a new solution. And yet that doesn't happen in this case, right? Like there is demand for books. There is paper. And nobody else in Europe does this. Like that seems pretty clear. And so I was thinking, why is this? Too much plague. Always a good answer for this era. I have an idea. And my idea is, you know, if you think about these other periods we've talked about, the 1800s, certainly the 1900s, even the 1700s, everybody's reading what everybody else is doing.

19:42There are journals and books. And, you know, in the 1800s, there's a magazine printing all the new patents that Thomas Edison is reading to keep up on things. What you need for these things is a printing press. You need a printing press to know what everybody else is working on. And so the reason maybe I'm making this up that Gutenberg is the only one to invent it is it hasn't been invented yet. So not everybody knows everything all the time the way we do once you have a printing press. I think that's a great idea because what would it take to spread this? You'd have to write letters to people, but even then, not everybody knew how to write.

20:18Letters do become a thing, right? And science letters are a big deal. But the journal, you know, the printed journal is a much more powerful tool than letters. It's a thought. In any case, in any case, Gutenberg now has his press. What does he print first? The Bible. Not the Bible. Okay. Too expensive, maybe, right? It's long. The Bible is long. You don't have to start there, right? You don't start with the word of God. Cash flow nightmare also, you know? Yes. And also high stakes. You want to get it right. Yeah. So he starts with things that are simpler, cheaper, shorter, a German poem, a grammar textbook for Latin.

20:54And then this is my favorite sort of pre-Bible printing work that Gutenberg does. Comes around 1453. So not that long into this project. when there is actually this world historical event that's going to be good news for Gutenberg's printing business. And that is the Sultan Mehmed II captures Constantinople. Big news. Big news in the religious world. The Byzantine emperor is decapitated. Oh. And now the Catholic Church needs money to fight the Sultan. How does the church raise money in 1453? Indulgences. Indulgences. They sell indulgences. And, you know, you know this from whatever, from school, right?

21:40Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you give money to the church, they will remove the punishment that you owe for your sins. They would also allow you to get your relatives out of purgatory if they had died. Uh-huh. That makes sense. That's the punishment, I guess. Cost a little extra, but sure. What I didn't realize until I was working on this show is indulgences were physical things. There was an indulgence, which was basically like a nice receipt, a nice receipt often written out on vellum, a fancy, like a very high-grade parchment made from calfskin. And this fact, the receipt part of the indulgence thing, becomes important when the sultan captures Constantinople because the church suddenly needs to sell lots of indulgences, but they have a labor problem.

22:28It's the problem we were talking about before, right? There's just not enough scribes to write out all the indulgences that you need to sell right now. Plus so much sin. The demand was huge. The demand is huge. Who among us? And now here comes Johannes Gutenberg with a solution to your problem. You know, your grace, how many do you need? I'll just crank them out for you. This was also a solution to Gutenberg's problem because he had just enlisted the richest customer on planet Earth, or one of them at least. Yes, yes. The Catholic Church. Definitely a good customer to have. And, you know, on Indulgence, I believe it's a single page, right?

23:10So you said it once, and, you know, the printing business, you want to make as many copies and sell as many copies of each thing as you can. So it's generic. They don't have the different ones for the different sins. I guess over time there are different ones. But the basic thing is that there's a blank for the name of the buyer. There's a blank for the name of the buyer. And so he cranks out all these indulgences. White, the guy who wrote that book that I mentioned, says they go out by the wagon load. The money, I guess, was supposed to go to defend Cyprus, the island of Cyprus. But apparently none of it or almost none of it ever got to Cyprus, got siphoned off along the way.

23:51But whatever. That's not Gutenberg's problem. Surely he got paid. Let's do the biggie. Let's do the Bible. We'll do it after the break. OK.

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26:53Robert, we're back from the break, and it is October of 1454. We're in Frankfurt at a diet. A religious meeting of some sort. Yeah, a meeting of the Catholic Church. Not a conclave, but a diet. Yeah. It's not as big as a conclave, I guess. And we're with an Italian bishop named Aeneas Silvius Piccolomini. Piccolomini sees something that blows his mind. He sees some preliminary pages from a printed Bible, from what's going to be the Gutenberg Bible. And we know this because he wrote a letter to a cardinal about it. He describes a miraculous man who he encountered, who I hope was Gutenberg, but it could have been somebody who worked with Gutenberg.

27:38We don't know. And he describes for the cardinal what the pages of this Bible were like. Give it to us. He said they were exceedingly clean and correct in their script and without error, which your grace could read effortlessly even without glasses. That means something. I know. I appreciate that. Large print. I learned from numerous witnesses that 158 copies had been completed, although some others say the number is 180. I shall try, if possible, to buy a copy on your behalf and have it brought here. But I fear it will not be possible, both because of the distance and because they say that ready buyers had all been found even before the volumes had been finished.

28:18It's a hit. It's a hit. That seems promising, right? It is wild to think of a guy seeing what's going to be the Gutenberg Bible. Do I remember that you went to see one at the New York Public Library? Yeah, for Planet Money, I went to—it was on display in—they have a special display case. for these kind of things. There's also one at the Morgan Library, I should say. J.P. Morgan bought one. No big surprise. And I recall it was much larger than I thought it was going to be. It was probably the largest Bible I'd ever seen. It looked like one of those giant dictionaries that you have to put on a stand.

28:52And the other thing I remember about it is that the margins were very wide. It was just, it was these columns, these two columns, and the print was that old-fashioned sort of gothic print. Yeah, Germany, very German looking, yeah. It was very orderly, I will say, with these large margins, these very straight columns, and this very dense writing. Was there color in the part that you looked at? Yeah, there were some color that clearly someone had filled in or painted, right? Right, yeah, they actually left blank, like where there would be a big colored first letter at the start of a chapter or a paragraph or something.

29:31They actually didn't print that on the press. They left it to be hand inscribed. I wonder if the scribes were afraid of the printing press and then saw that, in fact, they could do their favorite part. You know, it's no fun to print every little letter, but to make the giant G with the flowers and the colors, they must have loved that. And now they could do 180 of them. Maybe. Maybe Gutenberg was like, no, no, I'm not going to automate your work out of existence. I'm just going to take away the drudgery and leave you to do the creative fun part. It's a compliment. Familiar. Yeah. So you've described the book very well.

30:03It's remarkable how many still exist. There are, I believe, 21 complete copies still in existence, which is a very large percentage given how long ago it was and how it just happened in Europe since then. It shows you how valuable they were. How valuable they were and how special they must have seemed even then, right? One fun business detail about the printing of the book itself, it's referred to typically as the 42-line Gutenberg Bible because there are 42 lines per page. And as you say, it seems quite spacious and like not crammed in. The first few pages, they were actually doing 40 lines a page.

30:40And so presumably they must have figured out like, oh, we could do two more lines per page. And that means less paper, less parchment. That's just profit right there. By the time you get to Revelations, it's tiny, tiny, tiny writing. No, it isn't. So he's cranking them out. Gutenberg is making the Gutenberg Bible. And there's this great detail. So some of the Bibles were printed on parchment, some on paper. And there is a belief, a kind of a theory based, I believe, on the different watermarks on the different pieces of paper, which I love like scholarly work like this. A belief that at some point Gutenberg might have had six different presses going, just kind of a factory, right?

31:20He's becoming a publisher, a printer. And then it feels sudden looking back, but we don't know. Something goes wrong. There's a big problem that's going to happen right now, and that is this. Johann Fust, the guy who put up the money to get the project going. The investor? Decides he wants his money back. We don't know why. There was a fight maybe. Maybe Fust needs the money for something else. But we know that they wound up in court on Thursday, November 6th, 1455. I love court documents. As a reporter, I've always loved them. I covered cops in courts in Bozeman, Montana, 20 many years ago when I started out.

32:03It's amazing because we wouldn't know anything about this, really. Yeah. And there is this one document that describes this whole thing in detail, written by one Ulrich Helmusperger, cleric of the Diocese of Bamberg, notary public and lay judge of the Holy Seed at Mainz by imperial authority, who wrote out this beautiful, detailed document that explains a lot about the first printing press in Europe. The document is called the Helmersberger Notarial Instrument. Notarial Instrument is one beautiful long word in German. And it lays this out kind of as a story. And it starts with Fust's version. It's like a he said, he said.

32:45So Fust tells a story like this. He says, I loaned Gutenberg 800 guilders at 6 % interest. And by the way, I borrowed that money from somebody else at interest. Oh, good job, Fust. Fust, right. He's like private credit, right? He's like, I don't know, Apollo or something in the market today. And then, Foost says, Gutenberg came back to me later and said, actually, I need another 800 guilders. So I loaned him 800 more. Which, remember, is a lot of money at the time. Yes, yes. And now Foost is saying, I want repayment of that 1 ,600 plus interest, which comes to over 2 ,000 guilders. And as you pointed out, like 800 guilders was four houses.

33:28So 2 ,000 is a lot of houses. We don't know why he's demanding the repayment, but it's happening. Gutenberg doesn't show up at the hearing, weirdly. Don't know why, but he wasn't there. But he sends a statement, which somebody reads on his behalf. And Gutenberg disputes a lot of what Fuss says, unsurprisingly. It's quite the court, I guess. He says, okay, yes, that first 800 guilders, that was a loan. But even though the contract might say in the fine print that it's 6 % interest, we actually agreed that I wasn't going to pay interest on that. Not his strongest argument. Not his strongest argument.

34:08Get it in writing, Gutenberg. Come on. The second part is more interesting. He says the part of the money Fuss put up after that, the other 800, that wasn't a loan. That was investment as a partner to share in the profit or loss of the business. In other words, Gutenberg is saying in our language today, he wouldn't have said it this way, that first 800 was debt, but the second 800 was equity. That's the he said, he said. Then, kind of third beat of the document, there is a sworn affidavit from Fust. Remember who was there in the room. In this part, Fust actually seems to back off his original claim a little.

34:41You know, we don't know what was said in the room, but it seems like in the course of the hearing, maybe he reduced his claim. because in this affidavit, he basically says, okay, Gutenberg should go back through his accounts, figure out how much of the money that I gave him actually went into this printing business, and he should pay me back with interest for whatever part of the money did not go into the printing business. If he took my money and spent it on something else, come on, he's got to pay me back with interest for that. So, Robert, actually, we have it in foos words translated into English.

35:12Give it to us. Oh, nice. On the borrowed money which he, Gutenberg, received and did not use for our common undertaking. I demand from him the interest due under the terms of the verdict. And the court basically seems to agree with this, which I have to say seems reasonable, right? It does seem like a very common sense thing. And the court sends Gutenberg back to produce evidence on what he actually spent on the project. I guess they're saying, like, show us your books. And if, in fact, you took his money... Books existed, yeah. The ledgers. Books existed. The codex is the book. And it is a useful technology, but it's been around for a long time at this point.

35:46Otherwise, you've got to use a scroll. Much less convenient. Let me tell you from experience. It's a little bar mitzvah joke. I see. So the court says, Gutenberg, go back, look at your records, pay him with interest for whatever you didn't put into the project. And that's the end of what we know from this document. It ends there, which is interesting given the myth that has arisen around this part of the story. The myth is basically the evil financier Fust drove the noble and brilliant inventor Gutenberg into bankruptcy. Everybody will say they made him go bankrupt. Yeah, just like people talk about private equity and private credit today.

36:25Yeah, fair, fair. And yeah, maybe for similar reasons, right? Like it's a classic villain. Financiers are classic villains. Now, there is no evidence that Gutenberg went bankrupt. And in fact, he kept printing things after this. My favorite is he printed a wall calendar for doctors. Why do doctors need a wall calendar? I'll tell you in the 14-whatever, I think it was 60s or so, mid-1400s, it tells you based on astrology, when is the best time to do your bloodletting for the year? There were bad days and good days. There were bad days and good days to drain the blood of your patients, to help them.

37:03I'm doing it to help them. Of course, he prints some more indulgences, always a good business. He may have printed this giant Latin dictionary. He definitely didn't print anything, as far as we know, as beautiful as the Bible. Maybe because he didn't have access to capital anymore. But he was, you know, he was still in the game. But it is a little sad, right? I mean, right away, the man who invents the most amazing invention in Europe at the time is reduced to, you know, basically running a Kinko's in Harrisburg, right? He's doing calendars. He's doing flyers. This sort of thing. You buy one, get one free.

37:41It doesn't seem as miraculous. It just seems like a little business he has. Yeah. In a way, as a story, you want him to either have wild success or crushing failure. Not personally, not as a human being, but just for narrative purposes. The middle is unsatisfying. One thing that is true is Fust, the lender, I'm not going to call him a banker, but the lender, the financier, seems to have surpassed Gutenberg in the printing business. Well, he's gotten some of the money back and he's going to invest it in something else. And furthermore, and we know this again from like really careful scholarship, I guess, we know that he got some of the types, some of the metal letters that had been in Gutenberg's shop.

38:26Because I guess, you know, you can match the books that he printed with what Gutenberg had printed before. And some of the letters are Gutenberg's letters because they were sort of unique at the time. Yes, because they were sort of unique at the time. That's right. And, you know, maybe – remember that loan was – the original loan was collateralized by the apparatus, right? So maybe these letters are him collecting on the debt. We don't know. But that seems totally plausible to me. He also hires a guy from a Gutenberg shop, this really talented guy. I guess no non-competes then, which is good. It's good for the proliferation of technology.

38:59I suspect the employee walked out with a few letters in his pocket. Right, right. Is that an exclamation mark in your pocket? Are you a tiny bit happy to see me? I don't know if they had the exclamation mark then, actually. Go with the joke. It's a good joke. So this worker's name was Peter Schaefer, I believe it was pronounced. And Fust and Schaefer did great. And maybe Fust was a better businessman than Gutenberg. No idea. Don't know. They started out with this beautiful Psalter, a book of Psalms, you know. And they actually printed it in multiple colors, which must have required, you know, you got to put the same page through multiple times and get the alignment right.

39:36Like, elegant technical work. And as a business move, they do a really clever thing that Gutenberg didn't do. They put their names in the book, just like publishers do today, although at greater length. Robert, read to us what they put in that book. The present book of the Psalms has been fashioned by the artful invention of printing by means of letter forms made without the driving of the pen. And in praise of God, it has been brought faithfully and industriously to completion by Johann Fust, citizen of Mainz, and Peter Schaeffer of Gernsheim. In the year of the Lord, 1457. It's early branding.

40:14They put their name on it. They put their name on it. People are like, you know what I need? I need a Fust. We got to get Fust to do our next book. These guys do great. Right. This book does great. Their business does great. They expand to Paris, which is home of a big university, big book town. They're printing broadsheets. Of course, they're printing indulgences. And they print Bibles. And their Bibles are clearly modeled on the Gutenberg Bible because the words are the same. And you might say, of course, the words are the same. But in the era of the manuscript, right, something as long as a Bible, manuscript meaning people are literally writing out every book by hand, something as long as a Bible, there's always going to be a few little errors, omissions.

40:54You leave out one word, whatever, change an and to a but, and print changes that, right? Print, once you set the press, every book that comes out of that edition is the same. And that is actually a new thing in the world. I mean, it becomes more like the unerring word of God. Even though I know Gutenberg put it together, it has that feel that this is more than the work of man. This is something eternal. I like that. I believe that. So Fust and Schaefer are growing, and printing itself is growing. People who worked with Gutenberg and with Fust and Schaefer go to other towns, set up their shops, and you just see this rapid spread across Europe of printing presses in other German cities, but also in Rome and Venice and Paris and Basel and small towns.

41:42It's just happening fast. So there is the end of the Gutenberg story, of Gutenberg the man. We know that in 1465, when he's around 65 years old, the Archbishop of Mainz gives him this, basically this high status lifetime pension. And we have the formal announcement that proclaimed it. Read us a little of that. From the Archbishop. We will clothe him every year, always like our noble men, and give him our court dress. Also, we grant him 20 bushels of grain and two large barrels of wine for the use of his house, free of duty upon its arrival in Mainz, every year as long as he lives, on condition that he will not sell it or give it away, as has been promised in good faith by Johann Gutenberg himself.

42:28Tax-free wine. Tax-free wine. And that is the happy ending, I guess, that we were looking for in a way, right? Well, that and, you know, schoolchildren don't learn about the Fust printing press. Gutenberg's name, even if he didn't put it on the book itself, is famous. He is one of the greatest inventors of all time. We've got one last idea I want to talk about before the end of the show, which is really, I think, the first moment when you see the printing press transform society. We'll talk about that in just a minute.

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45:55Robert, this last idea, we're doing this kind of epilogue to the show. It's about indulgences. Indulgences, of course, were one of the first things Gutenberg printed, one of the first things Fuston Schaefer printed. And it's really remarkable when you look at the spread of printing across Europe, you see this boom in the indulgence business. Because, like, remember, the church was constrained before by the actual labor of the scribes to write out each receipt for each indulgence. But by 1500, you see a bishop in Sicily paying a publisher to print 130 ,000 indulgences. Do we know if sin went up?

46:39Did people, like, cheat on their spouses more because there were just, like, piles of indulgences? I like that. Or if the price went down, right? I don't know. In a competitive market, the price went down, but there was a monopoly. Around the same time you see near Barcelona, a monastery commissions more than 200 ,000 indulgences. The line is around the block. I actually don't know if there was a monopoly. Maybe different local archbishops were competing. Good question. Don't know. So the printing press itself is enabling this explosion in indulgences, but a backlash is building. A backlash of people who want reform, who want to protest.

47:16And in 1517, Martin Luther, yes, Martin Luther, that Martin Luther, professor, priest in the German town of Wittenberg, I guess it's Wittenberg in German, he decides that the indulgence thing has gone too far. Like it is corrupt. He sees it everywhere. It's all over the place. Yeah. It's too much. And he writes this kind of academic argument in Latin basically against indulgences. You know, famously, his 95 theses, which get posted on the church door. And just posted. He hammered them to the church door. Well, that's the myth. Again, that's the myth. I was actually reading about that. I guess, like, the church door was like the bulletin board and everybody posted everything there, but whatever.

48:00It just sounds better. It does. So his 95 theses, 95 propositions are largely an argument against indulgences. And so I've grabbed a few here for you to read. Give me a couple. All right. We'll skip over some and go to number 32. Two, those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned together with their teachers. Serious? Okay, let's go to 36. Any truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt even without indulgence letters. Save your money, bro. He's coming right at them. Yeah. So, yeah. So this, of course, famously, right, is the beginning of the Protestant Reformation.

48:41And it's happening, like you could argue, it has been argued, it is happening partly because the invention of the printing press led to this proliferation of indulgences. And if you didn't know what was going to happen next, you might think this would be bad for business for the printers. But no, because first of all, the 95 theses are suddenly reprinted everywhere. Everybody loves a list. This is a very interesting idea. It's very much of the moment. Number 36 will shock you. And really interestingly, in the next few years after this, Luther starts writing a lot, not just in Latin for this kind of academic and religious audience or priestly audience, but he's writing also in German for a much more popular audience.

49:27audience. And in fact, the public goes wild for his work. And it becomes almost like news. Like he writes these short sermons that are just a few pages long and he'll take them to the printer and they'll be out on the streets in a few days. Like it's very dynamic and it's enabled by the printing press. When he's getting going, there's just one printer in Wittenberg. It's a small town. And it's amazing the way Luther keeps complaining about the printer to his friends. At one point, He writes, you would not believe how I regret and how I am disgusted by his work. Writers love complaining about their publishers.

50:03It's too sloppy. He's not promoting my stuff. It's too sloppy. It's too sloppy. He wasn't complaining. Nobody's complaining about the marketing department yet. So he actually invites another printer to come and set up shop in town. And soon, because Luther is this kind of proto bestselling author, there is this little industry of print shops in this small town. so they can just get Luther's stuff out fast. This is like the invention of the media. There's a whole ecosystem developing. People want the newest stuff now. You know, it's a clear line from here all the way to TikTok. So there is now this print industry, this media industry, you could say, if you want to be a little anachronistic, in Wittenberg.

50:43And over the course of Luther's lifetime, it just proliferates. Like, he translates the Bible into German, which is, of course, a big deal historically. In his lifetime, these local printers print over 100 ,000 copies of this German translation of the Bible. And in his lifetime, you know, more broadly in the German-speaking world, printing is proliferating. And something like six or seven million evangelical pamphlets are printed in German throughout the region. It's amazing because it's not just a product. Gutenberg didn't invent something that just fulfilled one need. It created a million needs.

51:23The moment the printing press is there, you don't just want to print one thing, the Bible. You want to print arguments about the Bible and arguments back and competing views of this. And it changes the dynamics of like, well, now you can have more indulgences. Now one random priest can have an audience of millions in a way that is almost unimaginable without the printing press. And if you didn't know how to read, you would have incentive to learn how to read in order to read these things, which creates more demand. Yes. So maybe one idea to land on is like a new technology is a new tool. And what nobody ever knows is how are people going to use that tool?

52:03These guys, Gutenberg thought they were just making a cheaper, more efficient way to make Bibles. They didn't know what else you could print beyond this. And then it goes beyond religion. It changes politics, war, philosophy. Science. Everything. I want to say, as we roll into the credits today, I want to say thank you to the listener who wrote to us to say that whenever he tells his friends about our show, they say, that doesn't sound like you. But it is a nice thought to tell your friends about the show, and we encourage all of our listeners to at least bring someone along. Truly, I am very grateful to anyone who recommends the show to a friend.

52:44If you write to us and tell us that you told a friend, And I will personally write back to you and thank you for whatever that's worth. We're at businesshistoryatpushkin.fm. Our show today was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang, was engineered by Sarah Bruguer. Our video editor is Matt Nielsen. Our showrunner and editor is Ryan Dilley. I'm Jacob Goldstein. And I'm Robert Smith. This is Business History. Thanks for listening. Hey, this is J.R. Martinez, host of Medal of Honor Stories of Courage. Navy Federal Credit Union is celebrating America's 250th anniversary with exclusive$250 offers for new members.

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53:52Subject to change or end at any time. Before you sign off, you tuned in for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use. ChatGPT for Business can help. Chat GPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in Chat GPT. This means your business can move from question to answer and code to rollout quicker. Join over 10 million business and enterprise users worldwide already using Chat GPT for Work. Download the Chat GPT desktop app or contact sales to learn more. The U.S. Virgin Islands invites you to explore the stunning islands of St.

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From the publisher

Before 1450, books were written out by hand. It was slow and expensive. But Johannes Gutenberg borrowed a ton of money to create a printing press that could crank out Bibles and pamphlets and documents in huge numbers. Science, politics and philosophy were all up-ended. 

For example, the Catholic Church seized on the invention to sell special certificates absolving people of their sins - a move that made money, but caused a permanent schism in Christianity.   

And Gutenberg too found himself in trouble - when a financier sued the inventor to reclaim his loan, plus interest.  

Write to us at businesshistory@pushkin.fm

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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