In short
The episode traces how instant ramen (especially Momofuku Ando’s Chicken Ramen, Top Ramen, and Cup Noodles) became a global convenience food, arguing that Ando’s real edge was execution, IP strategy, distribution, and marketing—not inventing the underlying idea.
Guest backgrounds
No guests appear; it’s hosted by Jacob Goldstein and Robert Smith.
Key claims
Ando wasn’t the first to preserve noodles via flash-frying; earlier work existed in Taiwan (GC Mian) and a 1955 product (“Flavored Chinese Noodles”) preceded him. Ando scaled instant ramen through patents, lawsuits, and deals, then used Mitsubishi distribution and health-focused marketing. Cup Noodles’ cup design and later U.S. adaptations (shorter noodles to reduce slurping) drove adoption. A major Japan boost came after the 1972 United Red Army hostage standoff was televised, during which police ate cup noodles.
Notable examples
Ando’s shed experiments; flash-frying/dehydration; patent purchase of the flash-frying method; Mitsubishi partnership; Chibiko mascot; 1972 hostage standoff; global flavors (Brazil churrasco, Hong Kong crab, etc.); “Space Ram” for astronauts.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Vision of Momofuku Ando
0:03 to 1:06
Discover Momofuku Ando's dream of transforming ramen into instant food.
“ChatGPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in ChatGPT.”
The Vision of Momofuku Ando
2:08 to 5:50
Discover Momofuku Ando's dream of transforming ramen into instant food.
“Delicious noodles from something that was artisanal, that was made and served fresh in little shops, into a cheap, mass-produced instant food.”
Ando's Early Life and Entrepreneurial Spirit
5:50 to 7:21
Learn about Ando's background and his early entrepreneurial ventures.
“This is Business History, a show about the history of business.”
Challenges and Discoveries of Instant Ramen
7:21 to 14:00
Explore the challenges Ando faced in creating instant ramen and the discoveries he made along the way.
“I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly.”
Ando's Struggles and Breakthrough
14:00 to 15:10
Learn about Momofuku Ando's challenges and eventual breakthrough in ramen.
“This time it was for tax evasion, for what it's worth.”
The Invention of Instant Ramen
15:10 to 17:03
Discover the launch of chicken ramen and the misconceptions around its invention.
“I'm sure you can read this on a big wall at the Cup Noodle Museum.”
The Role of Execution in Invention
17:03 to 19:14
Understand the difference between invention and execution in business.
“Even if he did go to the shack, he wasn't the first guy to figure it out.”
Advertising ChatGPT for Business
19:14 to 20:42
Explore how ChatGPT for Business can enhance team productivity.
“But this story suggests that, no, it is in fact a global human thing.”
Ando's Legal Maneuvers and Market Control
22:21 to 25:53
Examine Ando's strategies in securing patents and managing competition.
“It was called chicken ramen because he actually cooked in some way, cooked the noodles in chicken broth before he flash fried them.”
The Japanese Economic Miracle and Ando's Partnerships
25:53 to 28:00
Learn how Ando's business strategies aligned with Japan's post-war economic growth.
“This is a Japanese economic miracle idea, right?”
Show all 19 chapters
Understanding Kiretsu and Japan's Economy
28:00 to 29:53
Learn about the concept of kiretsu and its impact on Japan's economic structure.
“And they all owned stock in each other and coordinated with each other.”
Ando's Vision for Instant Ramen
29:53 to 31:03
Discover how Momofuku Ando envisioned instant ramen as part of a larger trade strategy.
“Seems a little weird that instant ramen would fit into this giant industrial system.”
Marketing Instant Ramen as Health Food
31:03 to 32:44
Explore Ando's innovative marketing strategies that positioned ramen as a health food.
“From killing you fast to killing you slow.”
Ando's Entrepreneurial Spirit
32:44 to 32:56
Follow Ando's journey as he seeks to expand ramen's reach beyond Japan.
The Invention of Cup Noodles
32:56 to 35:03
Learn about the invention of cup noodles and the innovative packaging that made it successful.
“So in 1966, he flies to California to figure out how to sell ramen to the United States of America.”
Cup Noodles and a Historic Standoff
39:14 to 42:01
See how a hostage situation led to the rise of cup noodles in Japan's culture.
“I'm Manga Shatikula, and I'm back with a new season of the podcast Skyline Drive.”
The Rise of Cup Noodles in America
42:01 to 43:50
Learn how cup noodles became a sensation in the U.S. market.
“Eventually, the heroic police officers, fueled by courage and cup noodles, stormed the lodge in a morning raid and captured the killers.”
Global Adaptation of Instant Ramen
43:51 to 46:03
Discover how instant ramen flavors adapt to different cultures around the world.
“They're going to take over the world with instant noodles.”
Momofuku Ando's Legacy
46:04 to 47:02
Explore the life and legacy of Momofuku Ando, the inventor of instant ramen.
“What, do they sell one of those, a space ROM?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Today's episode is brought to you by ChatGPT for Business. As a listener of this podcast, you're looking for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use. ChatGPT for Business can help. ChatGPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in ChatGPT. This means your business can move from question to answer and code to rollout quicker. Join over 10 million business and enterprise users worldwide already using ChatGPT for work. Download the ChatGPT desktop app or contact sales to learn more.
0:37Did you ever notice how you spend hours shopping online only to pause at checkout because you wonder if you trusted enough to hit buy now? Agentic Commerce is testing that moment more than ever. That's where PayPal comes in. With 25 years of checkouts, 400 million consumer accounts globally, and the benefit of fraud protection. So no matter where a purchase starts, it ends with trust. Built for payments, growth, and agentic. PayPal Open. Built for all business. Visit paypalopen.com. This is Jacob Goldstein from What's Your Problem? Running a business is hard enough. Don't make it harder with a dozen apps that don't talk to each other.
1:17One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. That's software overload. Odoo is the all-in-one platform that replaces them all. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR fully integrated, easy to use and built to grow with your business thousands have already made the switch why not you? try Odoo for free at odoo.com that's odoo.com
1:50Pushkit too quick? no, it was perfect Pushkit, stop you got it
2:08Momofuku Ando had a dream. He wanted to turn ramen. Delicious noodles. Delicious noodles from something that was artisanal, that was made and served fresh in little shops, into a cheap, mass-produced instant food. This is not a dream of our moment, but it was a very mid-20th century kind of dream, which was when he was dreaming this dream. Yeah, an age of science, an age of convenience, an age where scientists could help us eat faster and more efficiently. Yes, yes. Industrial food as mid-20th century dream. His dream was also, as I'll talk about in the show, a very post-war Japanese economic miracle kind of dream.
2:52And so Ando had a friend of his build him a shed out back behind his house in Osaka. He bought a used noodle-making machine, brought it home on his bike, set it up in the shed. And every day for a year, he is out there in the shed from 5 in the morning until 2 the next morning, trying to figure out how to make his instant ramen dream come true. He is the Thomas Edison of the instant noodle. Kind of seems like he read the Thomas Edison biography and is... Dicking it to heart. Yes. He's a businessman. He is not a chef. But this doesn't stop him. He tries adding eggs, starch, yams, milk powder, spinach juice.
3:36Finally, he gets better at making the noodles. But he's still stuck on this last key step. How do you preserve them so that they're not fresh and going to go bad, but stable? You can just put them in the cabinet and then cook them up in an instant whenever you want them. And one day, Ando sees his wife making tempura in the kitchen in the house. And he notices that the batter is giving off these bubbles of moisture in the pan. And he realizes that by frying the freshly made noodles, he could dehydrate them and preserve them. Eureka! This is the moment. So he flash fries his noodles, lets them cool, and then he adds boiling hot water to the noodles.
4:22And voila, they rehydrate and cook within minutes. He has invented instant ramen, a product that human beings on planet Earth will eat 123 billion with a B servings of in 2024, in the distant future. This is the story that they tell at the Cup Noodle Museum in Osaka, Japan. It's a corporate museum. A corporate museum, indeed, that has a full-scale replica of the shed. They also tell this story at the other Cup Noodle Museum in Yokohama, where there is another full-scale replica of the shed. Maybe it's a replica of the replica. One doesn't know. But the official story, this story I just told you, leaves out some important details.
5:12Perhaps most importantly, Momofuku Ando was not the first person to figure out that you could preserve ramen by flash frying it. He wasn't even the first person to patent instant ramen in Japan. They don't want you to know this at the Cup Noodle Museum. Telling you the things they don't want you to know on business history. But look, Ando was the guy who made the instant noodle great, who built Top Ramen and Cup Noodle into global convenience food superpowers. And crucially, centrally, he was the guy who told his story better than anybody else. I'm Jacob Goldstein. I'm Robert Smith. This is Business History, a show about the history of business.
5:55Today on the show. Ramen. The foundational product, a foundational product of our modern age. Fuels higher education. Absolutely. PhDs only eat ramen. Only eat ramen. And it has a weirdly warm place in our hearts, given that it is this industrial mid-century food. Yeah, the warm place is the salt. The salt and the hot water. The hot, salty water going down. A lot of the salt blood pressure thing going on. When I was in elementary school and I was home alone in the afternoons on the weekday afternoons, sometimes I'd eat a pack of ramen raw. You ever do that? I have done it. It is kind of delicious.
6:36It's not bad. The only question is, do you go flavor pack or no? Like how spicy you feel? No, no flavor pack. My best ramen moment was when I was in South Korea. I was watching a baseball game. And instead of peanuts and Cracker Jack, you go down to the convenience store at the stadium, buy a cup of ramen, add hot water, and then you slurp it at your seat. It is remarkably ubiquitous. You know, people talk about eating it in Nigeria and in Poland and, you know, rich countries, poor countries, Asia, Europe, Africa, the Americas. ramen has conquered the world, right? Instant ramen has conquered the world.
7:15So how did it happen and why? It happened largely because of this guy, Momo Fukuondo. So let's talk about him. He was born in 1910 in Taiwan. His name at the time was Gopek Huck. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that correctly. His parents died when he was very young. He'd later say he couldn't remember their faces. And he was raised by his grandparents. He spent his childhood in their textile store doing chores. And when he was 22, he went into the textile business for himself with money he had inherited from his parents. And at the time, at the time, Taiwan was a Japanese colony. This is the first part of the 20th century.
7:54And Ando had an uncle near Osaka, and that led him eventually to move to Osaka, move to Japan, and set up a textile company there. And then World War II started, which just took his textile business out of business. But one thing that will become clear about Ando that I think is really the essence of his story in some ways is he is a hustler. He is a guy who just keeps coming up with new businesses. And he's going to come up with a lot before he gets to ramen. So during the war, he's selling charcoal. He's selling some kind of optical equipment for the war effort. But then a manager at the factory is suspected of fraud.
8:33fraud and apparently Ando reports the fraud, but he ends up getting arrested. It's unclear really what happened, but it is clear that he got arrested. And he's put in a cell and he sees prisoners fighting over tiny servings of food. And he'll later say this is part of his impetus to want to create this kind of cheap, abundant food. He gets out 45 days later and not long after he gets out, Japan surrenders and the war is over. around this time he marries a japanese woman named masako ando takes her name actually ando changes his first name to momofuku side note as some people some listeners may have been thinking already isn't there a fancy basically ramen chain food chain in america today called momofuku is it a coincidence robert you actually talked to uh david cheng right the guy who started the chef and he said it was a coincidence that momofuku meant good peach or lucky peach or Yeah, yeah.
9:29And so, yeah, he was not basing it on Momofuku Ando. Or so he says. Or so he says. Surely he must have known. Anyway, so we're in post-war Japan now. There is a profound food shortage. In fact, the U.S. had been, you know, deliberately cutting off Japan's supplies of food imports during the war. And now after the war, the harvest in Japan is bad. It's quite a desperate situation. People are eating peanut shells. They're stealing vegetables from the fields. And Ando is this entrepreneurial guy out of prison, wants to start a business. Also, I think genuinely wants to do something helpful. So he starts getting into the food business.
10:13He finds an abandoned military base on a beach and finds a bunch of demobilized soldiers with nothing to do and opens up a salt plant. And the soldiers are working for him, making salt on the beach. Another company he starts extracts the marrow from discarded animal bones to make some kind of nutrition supplement. And around this time, a couple things come together to plant the seeds of the big idea, the ramen, the instant ramen idea in his mind. One, the U.S. is occupying Japan. And the U.S. is bringing food from the U.S. to help stave off famine. In particular, the U.S. is bringing in surplus wheat.
10:59It's a classic American move. Yeah, because we have wheat farmers, and it's a great way to take our bounty and move it to another place, even if they don't traditionally eat much wheat. Right. And so they had eaten some bread in Japan, and before the Portuguese had brought bread, they didn't eat much. But the Americans, they're bringing in this flour and turning it into white bread, which is not a normal thing in the Japanese diet. And there are these like PR vans going around, which I think means like the vans with the big speaker on top driving around being like, America is giving you bread, you know, and they're putting it in school lunches and this sort of thing.
11:37If you're hungry, eat some bread. Bread is good. America, good. That's the gist. Yeah. So they're trying to get people to eat the bread. Ando knows about this. And there's a moment when this is happening that is like a key moment, according to him, where he's walking by a train station. And he sees this long line of people. And they look haggard. You know, their clothes are worn and they're kind of downcast. And it's this long line. It's like, what is this line? And he looks at the front of the line and he sees that the people are waiting to get a bowl of ramen. Noodles, hot broth, it just looks so good and so satisfying.
12:21You would wait a long time for it. And Ando thinks, this is ridiculous. Like, we're trying to talk people into eating bread, this food people basically don't want. That is not a Japanese food. We should be turning that wheat into ramen, this food that people are lining up around the block for. Which is a very smart business thing to notice. There's a huge demand for something that has a low supply. There's this large supply of bread that no one wants. I mean, it's great. So there is this sort of corporate autobiography of Ando that talks about this moment. And he says he actually goes to a guy from the Ministry of Health with this idea, turn the weed into ramen.
13:05But he says there was a problem. At the time, however, ramen and Japanese udon were solely the domain of small-scale businesses. There was no pipeline connecting U.S. flour surpluses with the structures necessary to produce and distribute noodles. The lack of adequate manufacturing facilities amounted to a bottleneck. A bottleneck. One of the things we often see in the history of business. And you can make a lot of money if you figure out a way to solve the bottleneck. We need a printing press, but for ramen noodles. Which is what he's going to do. Yeah, I mean, ramen at this time is a craft product.
13:39I actually thought of cars before Henry Ford came along. You know, it's made in small batches. It's made fresh. It's the kind of thing we sort of fetishize today, like, ooh, small batch. That sounds nice. But you're not going to feed a hungry nation with it. You just can't turn these shiploads of wheat into ramen in this way. So Ando has this idea, and maybe he would have solved this problem right away, but for the fact that he got arrested again. Wow, criminal. This time it was for tax evasion, for what it's worth. Ando's story is that it was a misunderstanding about a scholarship program he started for his workers.
14:16What really happened, I don't know. But again, it's clear that he was arrested, his assets were seized, and this time he spent two years in prison. This is some time. Yeah, that's a lot of time to think about ramen. And you don't even have instant ramen to eat while you're in prison because it hasn't been invented yet. So he gets out, and now he is ready to make his big ramen breakthrough after he runs a credit union for six years until it fails and goes bankrupt. He tries a lot of things that don't work is what I'm saying. Now, you know what? I have to say this makes me love him. Not that he was some lifelong chef who wanted to perfect this culinary thing, but he's a guy who tried a bunch of things.
14:56He's just looking for a way through. He just keeps working at it. Okay, now he's ready. Yeah. For going out in the shed in the backyard, supposedly having the breakthrough. This is the late 50s. By 1958, he figures it out. Robert Smith, let's go to the official corporate narrative. I'm sure you can read this on a big wall at the Cup Noodle Museum. On August 25th, 1958, chicken ramen, the world's first instant noodles, was launched. Since chicken ramen, a food ready to eat in just two minutes after adding hot water, was a product inconceivable under the conventional wisdom of the times, It was dubbed Magic Ramen.
15:33They may have dubbed the noodles Magic Ramen. Nobody else called it Magic Ramen. They called it Magic Ramen, yes. The thing that is clear from the historical record, these noodles were not inconceivable under the conventional wisdom of the time. In fact, someone else seems to have conceived them before Momofuku Ando. Robert, we've got more history, this time not from an official corporate history, but from the book The Untold History of Ramen by a historian named George Solt. A much smaller company had already released an identical product in 1955 called Flavored Chinese Noodles, three years before the release of chicken ramen.
16:14But the company was forced to halt production after a few months due to weak sales. Interesting. I turn now to Exhibit B, a Harvard Business School case study entitled Momofuku Ando and the Globalization of Noodles, which points out that flash-frying noodles to preserve them was a technique that had been used since the early 20th century in Taiwan. Where he's from. Where he's from. They called this noodle dish GC Mian, which I'm probably mispronouncing, but I want to say it so I can quote directly from the Harvard Business School case study, which says, Taiwanese families shipped packages of GC Mian to their relatives living in Japan when the country experienced post-war food shortages.
17:02It seems like Momofuku Ando did not invent instant ramen. Even if he did go to the shack, he wasn't the first guy to figure it out. You know, I'm OK with that. I'm OK with that. If there's one thing I've learned during this show, it's that, you know, invention is fine. Invention's great. I'm glad there are inventors out there. But ideas are plentiful and execution is rare. When we did that story about Edison and the movies, we talked about the similar theme, right? Edison basically did not invent the movies, but he got credit, at least in America, for inventing the movies. And when we talked about that, we talked about Joseph Schumpeter, the famous economist, the guy who came up with the term creative destruction, which they love today in Silicon Valley.
17:47And he wrote beautifully about the difference between inventors and entrepreneurs, which is what we're talking about here. So give us that. As long as they are not carried into practice, inventions are economically irrelevant. And to carry any improvement into effect is a task entirely different from the inventing of it. And a task, moreover, requiring entirely different kinds of aptitudes. It is therefore not advisable, and it may be downright misleading, to stress the element of inventions as much as many writers do. Or podcasts do. Yeah, we do. That's us. We are stressing it too much. Because the inventor is so fun, right?
18:25Like, yes, execution is what matters. But like the guy in the shed trying to come up with how to do it, that is delightful. I think we like the lesson that anyone can be struck by lightning. The light bulb goes off. You come up with an idea and change the world. If the real story is now you have to actually work hard and do all the hard implementation things to change the world, well, that's not as much fun. That's just a job. That's drudgery. And I used to think, I mean, Edison, the guy who more than anybody created the inventor narrative, you know, famously has 1 % inspiration, 99 % perspiration.
19:01And I used to think that was like what you need to get to the invention. But no, it's what you need after the invention to get to business success. Like once you have the idea, all of the work is before you. And I used to think that the myth of the inventor was an American thing or a Silicon Valley thing. But this story suggests that, no, it is in fact a global human thing. We love an origin story. We love an inventor. And so Ando was apparently not the inventor creating magic noodles out of 1 % inspiration, 99 % perspiration, and 1 % cooking oil. I know that is 101%. Add in 3 % salt and you've got the secret recipe.
19:50But he was a great entrepreneur. He was the guy who brought instant ramen to the world, which we will talk about after the break.
20:12Quick one before you jump back in. You're listening for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use. ChatGPT for Business can help. ChatGPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in ChatGPT. This means your business can move from question to answer and code to rollout quicker. Join over 10 million business and enterprise users worldwide already using ChatGPT for Work. Download the ChatGPT desktop app or contact sales to learn more.
21:12Designed by She's Birdie for hotels, dorms, Airbnbs, and anywhere you're staying away from home. It installs in seconds on the doorframe, and if the door is opened, it activates a loud siren and flashing strobe to help draw attention instantly. She's Birdie. Because peace of mind should check in with you. Birdie Box by She's Birdie. Visit She's Birdie.com. That's S-H-E-S-B-I-R-D-I-E dot com. And order your Birdie Box before your next stay away from home. Create the deck of your dreams with Menards. Build your outdoor project from the largest in-stock selection of AC2 lumber and thick decking. All pressure treated for enhanced durability.
21:50And it's easy to load in our drive-thru lumber yard. Plus get free estimates with our easy-to-use deck design program. Available in-store or on Menards.com. Save big on AC2 pressure treated lumber and thick decking. Plus check out our weekly flyer online for all the great deals happening now. Save big money at the Nards.
22:21Momofuku Ando's first instant ramen, it does seem like it was good ramen. It was called chicken ramen because he actually cooked in some way, cooked the noodles in chicken broth before he flash fried them. Ooh, the flavor was baked right in. The flavor was fried right in. And so there was no flavor packet initially. You just add the hot water and you get some chicken. And there was in the block of noodles, it was a block of noodles like now in a, you know, in a top ramen pack. But it had a little divot on top. And the idea was you crack an egg into that divot and then you pour the hot water over the whole thing and the egg kind of poaches while the noodle cooks.
22:56I like that. That sounds delicious. Bring that one back. Yeah. He calls his ramen company Nissin Foods. The official story is that the new name symbolizes his desire to create a rich flavor purely each day, because nichi means day and shin means pure. Now, we could talk about Ando making instant ramen in his house with his family, hundreds of packs a day. We could talk about him putting on a suit and doing a demo at a fancy department store in Tokyo, calling out to passers-by. Those things really happened. But you know what I want to talk about? I want to talk about Momofuku's real Edison move, suing all his rivals.
23:36Oh, so good. First, he tries to trademark the chicken ramen name in late 1959 and finds there are already 13 other companies making a similar product under that name. Goes to court, wins exclusive rights to the name. Next problem, somebody else has already patented his flash frying method. Another guy who was born in Taiwan, actually, and had been running a noodle shop in Japan for years by that point. And so Ando negotiates with the guy, winds up buying the patent. And according to that HBS case study, the contract apparently included a provision not to talk publicly about any relationship to Momofuku's chicken ramen.
24:19He's already building up the myth. He's already building up the myth. First rule of buying up intellectual property rights. Don't talk about buying up intellectual property rights. But I guess somehow the word leaked anyways because a newspaper asked Ando about this deal. Here's what he said. I am not thinking about monopolizing the instant ramen business. I want to authorize the use of the patent by companies with excellent facilities and technology. If it can be used to prevent surplus production and sharp price drops, I believe that the industry can be stabilized. He's saying, I want to share the miracle that is instant ramen.
24:54This sounds like J.P. Morgan to me, creating his, you know, monopolies in 1900. Why do we have all these steel companies competing with each other and making a chaotic market? Wouldn't it be much better if one steel company sold all the steel in an orderly fashion? I'm not in it for the money. I'm in it to prevent surplus production of ramen. So Ando starts threatening rivals with patent violation lawsuits, reaches agreements with 20 companies to share patent rights in exchange for a portion of their revenues. They're all kind of banding together. Some of the other ramen companies, they're a lot by this point, hold out and form their own cartels.
25:32And in the end, the government gets involved and brokers a deal. Are they fighting in the streets? Like, do they go hitting each other over the head with dried noodles? They go to the factory and break all the news into little pieces. That's a good one. So in the end, the government gets involved, brokers a deal, and there wind up being three ramen cartels. Ando is, you know, kind of at the center of one of them. This is important. There is a bigger idea here. This is a Japanese economic miracle idea, right? These decades, the decades after the Second World War, Japan has this period of incredible growth.
26:06And the government is quite involved. It is not free market growth like we might idealize it in the United States. The Japanese government is doing in a lot of industries what it is doing in ramen. It's managing the economy so that there is some competition. You want competition because you want innovation. You want people to feel motivated every day. But there is a limit to that competition. Not too much. You don't want it to drive people out of business. No profit whatsoever. Yeah, that is the government's point of view. Whether that is optimal or not, we can debate. It worked for a lot of East Asian countries around this time.
Read the full transcript
26:40It did indeed. This all comes together in a really interesting way in 1959. So, you know, right at the beginning for Ando's business, when he realizes he needs a distribution partner to scale. And he partners with Mitsubishi. Giant industrial conglomerate. Giant. And had been around in Japan for a while at this point. I mean, cars, obviously. But what else? finance, probably all sorts of manufacturing. Finance, steel. I mean, we'll talk more about Mitsubishi in particular, but let me just talk about where it fits in the Japanese economy, because it's exactly how the Japanese economy works. And so before World War II, Mitsubishi was this giant family-owned conglomerate, did basically everything.
27:30And there were a few of these in Japan. Mitsui was another one. And then after the war, the Americans came in and essentially took over running Japan. And they were like, what is this? This is not how we run an economy. And they broke up these family-owned conglomerates like Mitsubishi. But then after the Americans left, these firms started to reassemble but in a different way. Rather than a single family controlling everything, what you had was this association of different companies that had similar names, like maybe they all had Mitsubishi in the name. And they all owned stock in each other and coordinated with each other.
28:07This was called a kiretsu. Kiretsu. And so Mitsubishi was a kiretsu, which meant it was a bunch of different companies that made steel and chemicals and cars and trucks and ships and planes and that sold life insurance and that was in the shipping business and did import-export. And at the center of it all was a bank, a bank that financed all these other businesses, which was key because bank capital was the key driver of the economy at that point. There was not some robust venture capital system like we have today. There was not a giant stock market where you could just go get money from the market for a new company.
28:45And I will note that today the biggest bank slash financial services firm in Japan is Mitsubishi UFJ Financial Group. Similar to what Warren Buffett did, which is if you have a lot of different businesses having the ability to allocate capital between the different companies, who's doing well, who needs it, you know, who's generating cash, who wants more cash. If you can do that correctly, you can build all those businesses and grow faster than your competitors. Is it right, Robert, that the insurance company that is at the center of Berkshire Hathaway is the kind of capital, you know, using the flow?
29:21Like, I've heard that. Is that true? Yeah. A lot of the excess cash is coming from the insurance companies. And financing these other businesses. Yeah. And this works for the Japanese economy. And it's an interesting kind of capitalism, right? It's not just one company. It's a few big companies guided by the government. The government is quite involved in sort of what they're financing. And, you know, the Bank of Japan is standing behind these banks at the center of the Keiretsus. And you get decades of extraordinary economic growth out of this system. Which sort of makes sense if you're talking about cars or trucks or building transformers.
29:57Seems a little weird that instant ramen would fit into this giant industrial system. Ando had a pitch about that. You know, he's this little ramen guy going to this giant global behemoth. And his pitch is much bigger than just noodles. He's thinking big. He says, look, we're getting all this surplus wheat from the U.S. A great deal on our key input for our wheat noodles. The key thing for the Mitsubishi executive is, yeah, this is import. This is, you know, we can get in on these wheat imports and maybe build our trade relationship with the U.S. Because, of course, we want to be exporting all these things we're making to the U.S.
30:36And so maybe ramen will be like a wedge that helps us build our trade relationship with the United States, which could be huge for us. And so Mitsubishi becomes a distributor for chicken ramen. And pretty soon Mitsubishi starts using the motto, Mitsubishi, from ramen to missiles. It really was another time. If you make missiles today, you don't say missiles in your ad. From killing you fast to killing you slow. Mitsubishi. Now, Ando's got his product. He's got his intellectual property. He's got his distribution. He just needs one more thing, marketing. And if we know one thing about Momofuku Ando, it is that the man knows how to market.
31:23His first move, and I love this, he pushes instant ramen as health food. Why not? Why not? The original ramen packaging has the phrase, build strength and a full meal boasting the highest nutrition and great taste. And at the time, there was this belief that part of the reason Japan lost the war was that the American diet made Americans stronger than the Japanese diet made Japanese people. Rice bad, wheat good? I mean, in its reduced form, yes. In 1960, Nissen adds B vitamins to its ramen and is allowed to market chicken ramen as a government-certified special health food. Okay, yeah. They got a mascot.
32:08It's a little boy named Chibiko. Forgive me, Chibiko, if I'm saying your name wrong. He's got blonde hair, freckles, and a baseball cap. He's a little American boy. He is a little American boy. Going back to this idea that the, you know, in post-war Japan, the ideal of kind of health and strength was American. They sponsor a TV show. There's a chicken ramen song that was a hit that, alas, I couldn't find online. You know I'll sing it. If anybody listening knows the Chicken Ramen song, email us a voice memo of you singing it. We will put it on. Businesshistory at Pushkin.fm. Please. All this marketing works.
32:43Japan loves instant ramen. Nissin is doing great in Japan. But Momofuku always wants more. He wants to grow. He has an entrepreneur's heart. He doesn't just want to succeed. He wants more. That is the fundamental desire. So in 1966, he flies to California to figure out how to sell ramen to the United States of America. I picture a madman-esque scene of Momofuku Ando in his suit with a stack of ramen by the pool. Everyone like go-go dancers in the sun. You know where he goes? I respect him for this. He doesn't go to the pool. He's not there to, you know, dine out on the expense account. He goes to a supermarket, a supermarket in L.A., in Los Angeles, and gives a few of the buyers at the store samples of chicken ramen to try.
33:33And he watches as they get paper coffee cups, break the noodles in half to fit in the cups, pour hot water on, and then eat ramen with forks while they're standing up. Americans. Americans. And you could imagine him being scandalized by this. You don't break the noodles. You don't eat them standing up. You don't eat them with a fork. There's a ceremony to this. But Momofuku is not scandalized. He doesn't care what the norms are in Japan. He wants to sell noodles to Americans. He's an entrepreneur, not a chef. He wants to make the noodles in whatever way people will buy them. Here's what he writes about it later.
34:17It seems obvious, but I was reminded that Americans do not eat with chopsticks and ramen bowls. I believe that deliciousness has no borders, but there's a cultural barrier to eating habits. This is smart. We don't have a tradition of what do you do with a block of noodles? You put in a paper cup. So he's sitting there watching those guys eating their noodles out of a cup. Noodles? Cup. Cup. Noodles. Cup. Noodles. Robert Smith, where is this going? He invents cup noodles. He puts the noodles in the cup. Sell the cup, too. You could charge an extra dollar. 30 cents. 30 cents is closer to it. Yes.
34:58He invents cup noodles, which in various times and places is also called cup noodle and cup o' noodles. In Ireland? It was called cup o' noodles in America. I know. I'm just joking. I will say cup noodles is not entirely trivial to figure out. And this one, as far as I know, So Ando did figure out, I direct your attention now to U.S. patent 3997676A, instant cooking cupped noodles and a method of producing same. Oh, OK. Let me read this. The denser top portion of the lump prevents the lower portion from losing heat and remaining unswelled. Thus, uniformly heated and swelled noodles are achieved.
35:46The flat, dense top of the lump can advantageously have placed thereon dried meats, vegetables, etc., which will not fall into the lump and will therefore present colorful and tasty appearance. This is complicated. So what we did is we actually took a cup of noodles and we cut away the side. Tell me what's innovative about this that we see. By the way, if you're listening, you can see this happening on YouTube. So, yes. So there is something, Robert, that you didn't describe that is part of the innovation here that is elsewhere in the patent. And that is if you cut – if you make a cross-section of a cup of cup noodles as you have done here, you actually see that the block of noodles is suspended in the middle of the cup.
36:35There's space at the top and at the bottom. I did not know there was space at the bottom until I cut this away. There's a lot of space at the bottom. They are not trying to rip you off. This is not non-functional slack fill, as it's called in the trade. This is functional slack fill because what it means is two things. One, it gives space for the noodles to expand in both directions. But the space underneath means the water goes through and then the steam comes up and cooks the noodles. That is part of the genius. And it's really quite something to look at. It really does look like a beautiful industrial food when you cut it open from the side.
37:08Genius. And this was an actual invention. of Momofuku Ando. I think so. Or his team, yes. His name is on the patent, and I think it was him. Robert, put the cup noodles down. We're going to go on with the show. How do they get the noodles to the precise size to put in the cup? It's incredible. I think that's in the patent, actually. A plug. I think they might call it a plug. Noodle plug. Ando actually rolls out cup noodles first in Japan in September of 1971, and it does okay, but it's not a thing that people in Japan have been clamoring for. You know, he was inspired to invent it for American eaters.
37:47But a few months later, in February of 1972, Cup Noodles has its big moment in Japan. And it is not the big moment that I would have expected. We'll talk about that in just a minute.
38:10Quick one before you jump back in. You're listening for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered context into work they can use. ChatGPT for Business can help. ChatGPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in ChatGPT. This means your business can move from question to answer and code to rollout quicker. Join over 10 million business and enterprise users worldwide already using ChatGPT for Work. Download the ChatGPT desktop app or contact sales to learn more. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?
38:49Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-IHEART to get started. That's 844-844-IHEART. I'm Manga Shatikula, and I'm back with a new season of the podcast Skyline Drive. This time I'm diving into a rabbit hole of peptides, organoids, blood boys, blue zones, and brain replacement to try to understand what this longevity obsession is all about and what it really means to live forever for all of us.
39:36I learned about some rad science. I can make a brain for you, and then we can test what draw is the best for your brain, as opposed to his brain. Here are some hard truths. I would expect Indians to age faster, but I did not expect it to be almost a four to five year acceleration. And get myself into a world of trouble. I'd say probably start bone smashing. That doesn't work. Make it look more defined. They say it works. I don't know. Listen to Skyline Drive, How to Live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
40:28We're back from the break. It's 1972. Cup Noodles is about to have its big moment. And here's what happens. members of a radical leftist student group in japan called the united red army have an internal purge we promise it's about ramen it's about cup okay so leftist student group radicals they have an internal purge they kill 14 of their own group's members along with an innocent bystander the cops are after them the chase is on they flee to a vacation lodge in a resort town at some point They kill two police officers and they hole up in this lodge and they take the lodge manager's wife hostage.
41:12And now there is a 10-day long hostage standoff. You may be asking yourself, what was the deal with this radical leftist student group? I don't know. I don't know anything about radical politics in Japan in the 1970s. But if you are asking yourself, what does this have to do with cup noodles, then you are in luck. Because we're business history, not radical student movement history. The hostage standoff was broadcast live on TV. Basically, everybody in Japan is watching this all the time. And Ando's company had been trying to get people in various jobs to eat cup noodles, trying to show them it's a very convenient food if you're busy, if you're on the go.
42:00And what everybody in Japan saw as they were glued to their TVs during the hostage standoff was tough, grizzled Japanese police officers fighting cold and hunger and eating cup noodles. Eventually, the heroic police officers, fueled by courage and cup noodles, stormed the lodge in a morning raid and captured the killers. And now, cup noodles is a phenomenon in Japan. It's in vending machines in Tokyo office buildings, second best-selling vending machine item after Coca-Cola, and it's time for cup noodles to go to America. Ando had been selling in America by this point. He had started Nissin Foods USA in 1970, which was a joint venture with another food company and his old pals at Mitsubishi, good friends to have.
42:53Shout out Kiretsu. And as a baby step, they had started selling packaged ramen under the brand name Top Ramen. It's like the Top Ramen you get today. It didn't do great. The cup was the big breakthrough in America. For the U.S., they call it Cup O 'Noodles. They add pork and beef flavors. And they make the noodles much shorter than the noodles in the Japanese version. Half the length. Remember, you'd seen them breaking it. The Harvard Business School case study actually explains why the noodles are shorter in the American version in language that just delights me, so I want you to read it. So the consumers would not have to make a slurping sound while eating the product.
43:34Whereas slurping was regarded as part of good eating manners in Japan, the noise was highly objectionable to many people in the United States. Americans loved their broken-in-half noodle cup-o'-noodles. Just a little slurp, not a big slurp. Now, you've got Japan, America, Ando and Nissen are off. They're going to take over the world with instant noodles. And you see this decade after decade. They go from country to country, opening factories, adapting the cup to suit individual tastes. There's churrasco in Brazil, crab in Hong Kong, tam yum in Thailand, masala in India, miria in Mexico. You can actually get that in the U.S.
44:16now. That sounds delicious. And this is genius. This is a great thing about cup noodles. You can put any flavor you want in there. They're incredibly ubiquitous. Nissen sells something like 2 billion cups of cup noodle a year. Worldwide, people eat 120 billion servings of instant ramen per year. That's all companies. And, of course, the researchers in Antarctica will eat it there. Basically, on every continent, people eat instant ramen. Like, it is extraordinary how wide it has spread. And, you know, it's also literally across the street from my house. Like, this morning, I'd been meaning to pick up cup noodles as props for the show.
44:59I'd forgot. And this morning, I went to the bodega that is across the street from my house. And, of course, they had it. And it is not a big bodega. It's smaller than the median 7-Eleven in America. And it's not particularly cheap, right? Bodegas, you pay a little more for the convenience. Two cup noodles were available in abundance across the street from my house. Two of them cost me$3. In New York City, you could never be more than 50 yards from a cup noodle. Truly. And I suspect in much of the world. Momofuku Ando's last big move was space rum. Ramen specially designed to be eaten in space.
45:39He and his team designed the noodles to be held together with egg whites. to cook at a lower temperature because there's not that much pressure on a spaceship. So, right, so water is going to boil at a lower temperature. And in 2005, a Japanese astronaut ate space ROM in space, and it made news around the world. Momofuku Ando understood the power of a good story, and that's just a great story. So good. I know. What, do they sell one of those, a space ROM? But it doesn't matter. We don't care if this is, I don't know, a true story that he was in the shack and all this stuff. What we care about is that there is a miracle in the world, and we just want a little story that makes us feel better, you know, that makes us feel warm and toasty inside, much as the hot water does to the noodles in the cup.
46:35Two years after the astronaut ate Space Ram in space, Momofuku Ando died at age 96. He had no more worlds to conquer. He said the secret to long life was golf twice a week and chicken ramen every day. Don't do it. His funeral was space-themed. It was held at a stadium in Osaka. Two former prime ministers attended. And it was a celebration of the life of the man who, as everyone knows, invented instant ramen. What food should we do a story about? Tell us. You can email us at businesshistory at pushkin.fm. You can find me on Twitter, aka X, or on LinkedIn. Robert, you are at Radio Smith. Keeping the radio alive.
47:28One day at a time. Our show today was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang. It was engineered by Sarah Bruguer. Our video editor is Matt Nielsen. If you want to see a cross-section of A Cup of Noodles, you can see it on our YouTube page. Our showrunner and our editor, and a man who calls cup noodles pot noodles, I think, is Ryan Dilley. I'm Jacob Goldstein. I'm Robert Smith. Thanks for listening. Before you sign off, you tuned in for ways to help teams move faster, make sharper decisions, and turn scattered contexts into work they can use, ChatGPT for Business can help. ChatGPT for Business gives teams a shared workspace with admin controls, permissions, and access to work and codecs in ChatGPT.
48:13This means your business can move from question to answer and code to rollout quicker. Join over 10 million business and enterprise users worldwide already using ChatGPT for Work. Download the ChatGPT desktop app or contact sales to learn more. I'm Maria Garcia. You may remember me from my podcast, Anything for Selena or My Dibble. I love pop culture. I think about stuff like, what did Mariah Carey and Luis Miguel's relationship mean? Why was the world so unfair to our girl, Britney Spears? And why do some women yearn for Shakira's black hair to make a comeback? I'm always trying to find the meaning behind pop culture and beyond.
48:58And now I'm back to unpack more divas, more drama, more stories from the present and the past that I'm muy excited to tell you about. We're going to have fun. We're going to keep it cute. And we're going to figure out what it all means. Listen to Muy Excited with Maria Garcia as part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Mange Shachigular and I'm back with a new season of my podcast, Skyline Drive. This time I talk to scientists, biopunks, curmudgeons, blues owners, super seniors, and Goa's top cryotherapy lab to try to understand this obsession with living forever and what it means for all of us.
49:45And I get into a bit of trouble along the way. I'd say probably start bone smashing. That doesn't work. Make it look more defined. They say it works. I don't know. Listen to Skyline Drive, How to Live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
From the publisher
Momofuku Ando told the world he invented instant ramen noodles in a shed in his backyard. In Japan, there's not one, but two museums celebrating this breakthrough. Only Ando wasn't the first person to flash-fry noodles to preserve them - but he was willing to sue any rival ramen maker.
Ando had suffered repeated business failures and even been jailed for tax fraud - but he created an origin story for his instant noodles so compelling that it helped him build a convenience food empire that sent instant ramen everywhere on earth and finally into space.
Write to us at businesshistory@pushkin.fm
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.




