A YouTube primer from Lone Fox

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week, I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is content creator Drew Michael Scott, better known as Lone Fox. Drew grew up on YouTube, starting his first channel at age 12. Almost two decades later, he's become one of the biggest voices in DIY and design on the platform, with nearly 2 million followers, not to mention his 1.5 million on Instagram. Drew doesn't pretend to be an interior designer. He loves to learn alongside his audience and embraces the journey clip by clip.

0:47I spoke with Drew about why he's opened up a shop dedicated to vintage pieces, which social media platform has the least friendly algorithm, and why he still edits every video himself.

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1:54Ernesta was built to fix exactly that. With rugs cut to your client's exact dimensions and delivered in as little as two weeks, Ernesta helps everything run smoothly from order to placement. Join Ernesta's trade program for dedicated one-on-one support, preferred pricing, and unlimited samples, ensuring a beautiful finish for your next project. Apply today at ernesta.com slash boh. That's ernesta.com slash boh. And now, on with the show. Well, I want to tell people about your background and how you got started. I feel like you've been doing this almost your entire life. So, I mean, tell me. Literally, yes.

2:43I have been on YouTube. I started on YouTube and like, I think my first upload was in 2013. It literally says on YouTube uploaded 13 years ago. I still have my first channel. And my first channel was a scrapbooking channel. So it was still in the creative realm, but I actually had got a Cricut like cutting machine for my birthday one year. And I was looking to YouTube to figure out how to use it. And I was like, I want to make videos too. So I I started posting my own like tutorials on how to use a Cricut machine. And it kind of evolved from there. I had that channel for a couple of years. And then from there, I had a fashion channel.

3:17I went to a fashion college. And so I thought they coincided nicely. And then I actually got a job at West Elm towards the end of like my fashion school because I needed just extra income on the side. And that's where I kind of started dabbling in interior. And they quickly changed me from an in-store sales associate to be an in-home stylist. So I was going to people's houses and like restyling their homes. And I had literally no background in interior design. But I was good with like, I think the scrapbooking, I swear, helped me because I look at rooms, honestly, like a scrapbook page. You have like your focal points.

3:49You have like your embellishments. You have like all your little accents and things. And they're all layered in a way that's supposed to feel kind of, you know, cohesive and artistic. So I kind of look at rooms like the same way I feel. so I kind of went from there and started sharing what I knew on my youtube channel which then I still going I kind of dabbled into DIY because I really wanted to kind of I really wanted my room and my spaces in my house to start looking like these ones I was seeing on architectural digest and on Pinterest and so I started to DIY a lot of what I was using in my space so like a new chair for my desk or a new desk for my computer and I was sharing those projects on my channel which kind of started the Lone Fox channel.

4:32Okay. And so what made you want to create Lone Fox? And what's Lone Fox? And who is Lone Fox? Yeah. So Lone Fox actually kind of stemmed, it's probably like my fourth YouTube channel that I had. So I've gone through iterations, which I think is fine. And people can like also realize that your first thing doesn't have to be like what it is. You can always change things up because I realized after my first three channels kind of what I wanted to change about my Lone Fox channel. And I knew I wanted it to be something that was more branded as its own thing and not like branded as my name because my fashion channel was my name.

5:08And I just felt like it didn't have the strong enough push to go where I wanted it to. I just wanted it to kind of be able to create this new world that people can kind of immerse themselves into. And like Lone Fox, it kind of was a random name that I came up with, but essentially foxes typically travel in packs. So they kind of, they follow the masses. So Lone Fox is the one that kind of steers away from what everyone else is doing and kind of does their own thing. Yeah. They really like that unique original feel. And so I think that also comes with the nature of DIYing and a lot of like, I love doing things by hand and a lot of my makeovers, I'm very hands-on with my projects.

5:45So I'm the one doing all the woodwork and all the painting and swapping the knobs and in the plumbing as well. So like, I really like being hands on with my projects and understanding and then sharing that knowledge on YouTube with my audience so they can kind of feel more comfortable with their own projects. Well, and that's one of the things I find so fascinating about you is you seem to be a speed learner. Yeah. And right. And so you throw yourself into understanding the process and then you educate others about it through your YouTube. Yeah, that's very true because a lot of times my, my videos too, are the first time I've done something.

6:19It's like me documenting the first time I've tried this technique. But through the process of that, it's also nice to be able to share with like what I've noticed that I didn't like. It's not like I've done it a few times and I haven't been able to share, you know, what went wrong. A lot of times I am sharing also what went wrong in the process, why I don't actually like this product anymore and how I would change this to get a different result. I actually do a lot of things twice, which sounds funny, but that's for my short form content. A lot of times now with now with the rise of like short form, I have to film it vertically and I have to film it horizontally.

6:50And I actually do a lot of my projects two times to do that because it's really hard to film both at the same time. Okay. So, so I want to delve into all of that, what you just outlined, but to, to catch listeners up, what I, what I'm really trying to, to get for them from this conversation. And I, and I love how you talked about sort of different iterations of your, of yourself over various YouTube channels and made it clear that you You can just create something completely different on another channel. Yeah. Yeah. And so I want to help people understand YouTube as this entrepreneurial tool, as this way to build, whether it's an enterprise, a business, whatever you might want it to be, and you might figure it out as you go along.

7:38But you just mentioned, so now the rise of short form versus longer form. So tell me what you mean specifically and what's coming up for you. Yeah, definitely. So I've always had YouTube as kind of like the primary focus of my social platforms, even with the rise of TikTok and Instagram Reels and the short form content. I definitely had to adapt. And I started posting a little less on my YouTube channel just because I'm still someone that edits all my content. I'm just control freak in that aspect of it. but I do think that the YouTube audience I build is definitely or have built is definitely my strongest audience and it's also my like whenever I come with like a new idea or I want to share something it's also where I feel like I get the best response and like the most fulfilling comments and the people are most engaged with my content and I feel like that's just because you're sitting with that person normally for around like 10 to 20 minutes per video whereas short form you really are just with them for 20 to 50 seconds and then you're kind of on to the next thing and it's so easy to kind of forget about what you were just watching but there's something about youtube that you just have you just build more of a connection with that viewer even if you watch one video you're most likely to build more of a connection with that viewer than if you were to watch another content creators 10 different tiktok videos but i also love youtube because i feel like it's still the platform that hasn't like the algorithm on youtube has always stayed the same Like your videos, I've never noticed over my 13 years of videos, like a decline in my views, unless the video was genuinely not a good video.

9:12And I also, the thing I love is YouTube gives you a description box where you could put 55 links in it and it's not hiding it from anybody. And it's not, if you put 55 links in it, it's not dragging your video down in the algorithm. So it doesn't make people leave the platform. If that makes sense. I've always found that YouTube has been a great place if you want to promote a product. Um, because a lot of times on Instagram reels and TikTok, you can't put a link on either of those. They're watching the video and you're hoping that they're going to the site and purchasing the product. Whereas on YouTube, you can put a direct link.

9:42I mean, you can post a story and put a link there, but it's very different. It's not the same. And then when you post a story link, Instagram ensures that your story link is dragged down in views. They don't want you leaving the platform. Whereas I feel like YouTube has never really done that. And I've also felt like YouTube is really how I built all my other platforms too. I pushed people from my YouTube channel and it was a lot easier for me to be like, go follow my TikTok and go follow my Instagram from YouTube. Whereas it's, I feel like it's a lot harder to go from like Instagram and be like, go follow my TikTok or go follow my, my YouTube.

10:15The kind of call to action doesn't seem to go through. I just have noticed YouTube being such a strong conversion platform. And also people really like tuning back in and they like the consistency of it too. Even with me having my store now, the amount of people that have come in and be like, we wait for your videos every single Sunday, like moms and their kids, or like mom and husband, being like, we watch every single Sunday. Everyone really likes the consistency of that. So it's a lot more search friendly, I also feel like for YouTube. So if you are someone that's trying to teach or you have a niche or what you're talking about is very niche, I think that YouTube is also a strong suit because it's very searchable.

10:56So to the point you were making about links and product and all of that, I mean, part of what YouTube seems to be really great for and seems to be helping you with your gallery, and we'll talk about that, but it seems like you can shoot a video, you can use some of your own product, you can link to it later, and it can really drive traffic in a meaningful way if that's in fact what you're trying to do. Yeah, definitely. I think there's also something you don't, you definitely don't want to make videos solely on trying to push traffic. I think, I think you, you kind of want to, I always say that I want to give a video that at least has three takeaways, like something that if someone watches your video, what are three things that they feel like they can use from that video in their everyday life?

11:42Or like, what do they gain from that video? So I would never do a video solely on my new products in my shop because a lot of times people, like they care, but they don't care enough to click into it. They maybe want to see, you know, like how you're updating your living room. And then within that video, you're also talking about like the new products that are available in your store. So I think that there's ways to also kind of incorporate things that feel a little bit more organic, but also still hit the SEO and like hit like what your subscribers and audiences want to see. a lot of times too like like makeover videos for me they do really really well but makeovers are kind of hard to like it's a lot of work to do a full makeover it's normally a multi-week process that creates one video which is good because it makes a really strong video but sometimes i try to integrate like the word makeover or like five ways to make over something like for another video topic that incorporates the theme of makeover but doesn't necessarily make me have to go into doing a full makeover.

12:42And then maybe within that video, I could then touch on like, oh, and then I have these few new products in my store that would also be great for making over your house. You guys should check these out on my website and I could link them right at the top of the description box or even on YouTube. Now you can literally like if you have a Shopify store and it's through Shopify, you can link the product right on your YouTube video. And some, if someone clicks it, it takes them right to your store to shop. And it's YouTube doesn't even take a commission or anything. So you have this huge following that you've developed over the years.

13:12So for someone who is just starting out, a designer who is thinking, I want to share my work. I want to share my process. What do you think they need to know and how should they be thinking about this and how they present themselves? I definitely think now with YouTube, I do really like how YouTube has shorts now as well, which I know is kind of different from the long form content. But I do think that mixing, especially for new people that are wanting to come up on YouTube or new profiles, I do think mixing both is really useful because you can kind of build an audience or build, at least build eyes to your page from your short form content, while then kind of dragging them in with those sort of shorter, maybe hook driven pieces of content or like little tips that you know as an interior designer.

14:03you can link your short form videos to your longer video. So if someone's watching your short form video, like the other day, I posted a really a short form video that was taping walls off in that breakfast nook. And I linked it to my long form video. And that short form video actually got 1.4 million views, which I was not expecting at all in the short form. And it pushed like 50 ,000 views to my long form video because the long form video is linked right there. So I actually was creating one for short form anyways. And I had a long form version of the full tutorial process. So the short one was just kind of like punchy and grabby to, you know, get people's attention.

14:39And then they're kind of intrigued as to how that was actually done. So then I linked to the long form video. So YouTube, you can utilize a lot more words as well in your videos in terms of you have a title, you have a description box, and you have tags. So you can put 500 tags on your YouTube video, which gets it in the algorithm in different ways, or gets it in searches in different ways. And then you can also title things. And I think too, just going through and like searching your favorite YouTubers and seeing how they title is like a good cadence to maybe follow for your own videos. Because there definitely is like, your title and thumbnail for a YouTube video is always priority because that's the first thing someone sees to click in is like that title and thumbnail.

15:22So if it's not strong, it's not going to get clicks. And then the video really doesn't matter because those are like your little billboards on the search.

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16:15That's Ernesta.com slash B-O-H. And now, back to the show.

16:26so we're in this moment where designers are are being forced to create reels and get on camera and many of them understandably it's not their comfort zone totally right and and i and now you sort of grew up doing this so i i sense that you long ago overcame whatever shyness or awkwardness you might have ever had, if in fact you ever had any, Drew, I'm not sure. No, I definitely did. You did? Yeah. So tell me about that. So in the beginning, was it hard for you? Yeah, no, I mean, like when I first, and also when I started doing my social media, like 10 years ago, it was when no one had a camera out in public.

17:04Like you should have seen the faces I was getting when I was pull out my camera, you know, like, cause it wasn't normal to film short form or anything like that. So be like, what's that person doing filming themselves over there? but it's definitely something that it just comes with time honestly like the more you do it the more comfortable you'll get with it and I also do think lots of designers there's still ways to create video content with photos so I do think that there's lots of like mood board driven content or style driven content in terms of like interior design style or different projects you might have done or like essentially photo driven content or maybe you just need one clip of yourself at the beginning.

17:42And it's not like you need to be in front of the camera talking to the camera, like start off with something a little easier and maybe a little bit more inspirational and not as teachy maybe like in terms of short form. I think on YouTube inspiration, I don't think people care for much inspiration on YouTube. I think that they really want that teaching, get a takeaway. They want to learn something, but on the short form, people can swipe past like a fun little video and go, oh, that was really pretty and inspirational, but they're not going to sit and watch it for 20 minutes, if that makes sense.

18:11There's not like a point to it. That's what's really surprised me about the Homeworthy videos is that they create such long form content now. And right. And they tell me that people are just sitting in the living room on their big screen TV. Yes. Right. Watching, watching home tours on YouTube. Yes. No, literally. And people, yeah, the long form content too. I know YouTube too. A lot of people will turn on a video and like just kind of be doing something else. That's what I do. I'm working on my computer all the time and I have YouTube on the background and I know YouTube too, like they really like when you post longer videos.

18:43And I know too, that when it kind of recommends a video, a lot of times it tries to recommend longer videos. I haven't seen any YouTubers in interior, in the interior space, focus on really long content. Like maybe like a, the full like thought process behind what you're doing in the moment more so. And a lot of times I can't get behind that type of content because I'm so now structured with what I do. Like, I'm like, okay, we're doing a makeover and I know I want to film this like that. And I need to film this like this and that. And I have kind of a structure behind it. But I think a lot, I think with short form to a lot of people have kind of unstructured things and there's, there's very organic ways to create content now.

19:23So before we jump to other channels and other things that I want to talk about the gallery to tell me quickly about the money side of YouTube that a lot of people don't understand, but can actually be very rewarding. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Once your content starts to get a real following. Yeah, no, definitely. I would say YouTube is primarily like the number one platform for making money in terms of views on your content. Like Instagram and TikTok does have their creator fund, but you don't make that much from it. But YouTube for the long form content, you actually can make like a decent amount of money from YouTube long form content.

20:01And it's that kind of changes in the ad pay rates kind of are adjusted based off of like how it's how your channel is performing and different things like that. So I would say that like over the years, it's fluctuated a little bit, but it's typically pretty consistent. And it's also in the category of home because different categories on YouTube actually have different ad rates. The home category is actually a pretty high ad rate because there's lots of advertisers and it's just a very advertiser friendly category. I also just love how they allow you to promote your store. Like if you really wanted to promote whatever shop you had, you can link to every product.

20:34You can link outside of YouTube. So there's that facet of it. But then also the brand deals as well. And it sucks because in the past, which I'm hoping YouTube will bring back. So maybe a lot of people will see this and tell YouTube to bring it back. It was called Brand Connect. But in the past, YouTube actually had their own kind of brand deal agency that was internal on YouTube. And they would work with brands that then they would work with the YouTubers. and so you would get brand deals directly through this company called Brand Connect, which was YouTube's agency. But they don't have that anymore.

21:04So now a lot of the YouTube, if you do get a YouTube deal, it's typically through the brand itself or like through a PR company they might be working with. But there's different revenue streams that you could definitely make through YouTube. And I would say it's the most rewarding of them all, like in the long run, for sure. So tell me about how brands began to discover you as this whole thing progressed. Yeah. I don't even know how they discovered me. Well, I mean, honestly, like some of my first brands that I worked with definitely were like very, very small, like super niche brands that didn't even have really any money to pay.

21:43But I was like excited to be working with a brand on content and I had never really done branded content before. So also short form, too. I feel like a lot of brands just at the moment are I feel like are striving with short form content. So I do feel like a lot of people that work at a brand or works at a marketing agency, they're also watching that kind of content. So then hopefully they'll come across me or come across, you know, someone in the industry that they're looking for that they might be able to offer a project to or something like that. And so coming to YouTube, I mean, leaving YouTube and coming to Instagram, you have obviously have a huge following.

22:19I think you've got a million and a half followers or something on Instagram. was that a long-term slow build for that? Or tell me about how you conquered that platform. Yeah, so I actually built a lot of my followers from a YouTube series that I had on how to take the perfect Instagram photo. So I had a YouTube series on my YouTube channel because Instagram was kind of new. People wanted that cohesive Instagram feed. They wanted all their photos to match. They didn't know how to edit them properly. And I had like a 12-part YouTube series on how to take the perfect Instagram photo and it would go and it was dissected by different types of photos.

22:57So it would be like outfit photos would be one video and it'd be a 20 minute photo on how to take the perfect outfit photo. And then the video following up to that would be a hundred poses for Instagram outfit photos. But it worked well. And I did, I literally did it on, cause you know how people will take food photos like at the restaurant, like above. I did videos on how to take the perfect food photo at a restaurant. Doing food photos wrong. Here's what's really done. Yes, I did it on everything. how to edit your photos perfectly, how to take the perfect selfie. I did a series on that. And so I think that's, that's how I initially built my Instagram was like pushing people from those YouTube videos to my Instagram.

23:32And it is all photo based content. So it's like how to take a photo. Whereas now I do try to prioritize the video content because video content on Instagram and TikTok is just where it's what seems to perform best. So now I do tend to prioritize video content over taking photos and like uploading photos. And, and I mean, and that's what, that's what Instagram wants. You're, you're, you're, you're following their, their directive. They want people to stop filling up their grid with pretty pictures that are just images. Right. Yeah. And that's what I don't really love about those platforms is like, they can kind of control what you do.

24:09Whereas I feel like YouTube's never really done that. YouTube's never really been like, Oh, we're not going to let you put links in your description anymore. And you're not allowed to do this and you can't make sure that only this many percent of your followers that subscribe to you see it because that's what I don't get about TikTok like I I cannot understand that I have 1.5 million followers on TikTok and I can post a video that gets a million views on Instagram but I could post the same one on TikTok and it will get 1400 views but I'm like how did it only send to 1400 people but that's just their algorithm like works so differently it's like if the initial people do not engage with it they just stop sending it to like your following I don't exactly know how it works, but I think Instagram and YouTube are a little bit more friendlier platforms.

24:50And what have you learned about what Instagram and TikTok send your way? Like what comes from that? A lot of designers whom I've interviewed have said to me, oh, you know, I experimented on both. It seemed like real clients were coming to me from Instagram, right? But TikTok, definitely there was a lot of interest, but it wasn't necessarily a right fit. What have you found? You want to know what? I've actually found that for my retail store that I opened recently, I've been getting a lot of people coming in from TikTok, which I feel like TikTok, like TikTok, I definitely feel like is great for converting people, going places, converting very trend driven conversion.