Andre Mellone wants less perfection, more emotion

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer Andre Malone, the founder of Studio Malone. Born in Brazil, Andre's upbringing took him from Sao Paulo to Syracuse when he moved to the U.S. to study architecture. From there, he worked for the heavyweights of high design in New York, from Robert A.M. Stern to Mark Hampton to Ferguson Shemamian. Out on his own, Andre has garnered buzz and media attention for his signature look, an aesthetic sometimes described as mid-century masculine.

0:48A recent project he did for Lauren Santo Domingo was Architectural Digest's December cover. I spoke with Andre about the key lessons he learned working for design icons, why all designers, no matter how much they hate it, should be involved in the financial side of their business, And why design is about emotion, not perfection.

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2:07The result? Distinct and elegant designs that harness the transformative powers of heat. There are saunas, and then there are KLAFSAUNAS. To learn more about the leaders in sauna luxury and their exclusive trade programs, visit klafsusa.com. That's K-L-A-F-S-U-S-A dot com. And now, on with the show. Tell us where you grew up exactly and describe it a little bit for us. I was born in Sao Paulo, which is the, you know, for context, right? Sao Paulo is the New York of Brazil, you know, and I grew up, you know, in a kind of like, sort of well-to-do Italian Portuguese family, you know, living in pretty nice houses.

2:58And dad was an industrial designer, if I recall? Yeah, exactly. So, that was something in our, I was like, it was like the one language that me and my dad sort of developed very early on as a way of communicating because, you know, I wasn't so kind of like, my dad is very sort of like heterosexual, you know, like very like straightforward, you know, industrial designer, you know, and I was, let's say a little bit more sensitive. A little softer around the edges. Right. Yes. And my dad, so like just for context, right? I mean, so he's like an industrial designer, part of that kind of like mid-century Brazilian group of designers who are like doing all that beautiful, exciting stuff in the 60s and the 70s.

3:45And he was very prominent, right? I mean, he was - Super prominent. He was part of these big sort of design groups. You know, he was kind of like, he was kind of more like, you know, him and his desk and let me do my work and, you know, but you know, it was all of that. And then he also raced cars. So he was super, super, super hetero, super straight. And I like to like, and I like to draw trees and, you know, birds and, you know, anyway. So, but, but we kind of like knew that, I think he kind of knew from the beginning that, that I had that, you know, whatever he had, I kind of inherited it. Did your father, I mean, did he express his feelings about, boy, I'd love for you to carry this on?

4:29You obviously seem inclined in this direction. No. No. So he didn't say that. no he um he always told me he's like you should definitely tend to this passion that you have but you need to be a businessman so much so that he forced me to apply to business school and i never studied i never you know i never i was i had no interest and i could never get in you know i think i tried for like two years to get into business school and i couldn't and i couldn't get in and then I secretly applied to industrial design school behind his back and obviously got accepted on the on the on the first round and then I told them I was like I I got accepted and I'm gonna go study interior industrial design and he said okay and then after three months I said I think I'm a little more advanced than this and I want to maybe study going to to the U.S.

5:26you know to go to school and that's how it started you know this whole thing of like making this move to the to the u.s and what did he say when you said you wanted to go to the u.s and go study architecture at syracuse yeah so exactly so he said he said that's very well you know i hear you but um if uh if you wanna if you wanna study in the u.s if you're gonna study abroad i think you study architecture because it's a more complete course and you know you can scale it back to anything that you want to do and i agree with him and ended up going to syracuse university which at the time was one of the few schools that offered a bachelor of architecture you know so like it's a five-year degree that you go straight into architecture and as opposed to studying something else and then getting a master's and i fell in love well and and tell me how you how you went from syracuse to to working for the uh the legendary robert a.m stern right exactly i had a successful thesis on my fifth year i had a price i won a price you know so i had that on my side and moving to new york was kind of a it was a dream and i remember my friend you know we were my friends at school, we all had lists of firms, right?

6:47I was just like, I don't know. I just remember having this very, this thought of like, how can my letter be different than the others, the other thousands that they're receiving, you know? So I would try to cater, you know, like, so I'll be like, oh, well, if I'm going to write Michael Graves, I'm going to maybe send that project. If I'm going to write this other guy, you know, and then I remember, oh, Robert Stern, maybe I'll add some watercolors. And I'm going to send along with my letter. And that was, I got a call two days later. Oh, hello. I was like asleep, you know. I didn't have a job.

7:22You know, my parents had given me a deadline to like start supporting myself. I was trying to find a job in New York and I was asleep. And I remember the person that called. She was very funny. She became a friend later. She said, oh, I'm sorry. Did I wake you? And I was like, no, no, no. No, no, no. What time is it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And she said, well, we like your resume. We wanted to know if you wanted to come in and have a chat. And that was that. And she did mention, we like your watercolors. I came to the office, was interviewed by some of the partners, and then they brought in Bob at the end and shook my hand, hello, blah, blah, blah.

8:04And then I was hired. I was offered the job. That was 1994.

8:12And I was like, immediately through on what they call the model shop, you know, you build architectural models, right? So, which is basically, you're just there cutting paper all day long, cutting strips of paper and gluing things together or scoping masses out of clay. It's really not cute. It's not pretty. but sounds terribly rewarding and and stimulating yes so it's like oh you're at the model shop okay so you must be a new hire so um and then i got a um a shortcut just remember we're there one late night you know building models and whatever and one of the associates or partners sort of like went you know kind of like came to the to our area and kind of like a little bit on a panic and saying, can anyone draw?

9:05Can anyone create a sketch? We have a presentation tomorrow and the render, something happened and we don't have it and blah, blah, blah. Can anyone sort of like... And I was like, I raised my hand and I said, I can draw, I can do something. And I made some sketches for a presentation in the next day. And then the next day, I get called to Bob's office and he goes, did you do those sketches? And I said, I did. And he said, okay, you're going to sit over there and you're going to work over here now. And they pulled me out of the model shop. Of the paper folding factory. Of the paper folding factory and put me sitting with one of the associate partners.

9:50And that kind of like sped things up, you know, for me a little bit. The fact that I could express myself in that way and translate, you know, what people were thinking into 3D. And that was just like one of the fun stories of Bob's. Well, and so you had caught his eye and it somehow fast-tracked you, right? Yes. But it wasn't enough for you, if I recall. Well, listen, I was very happy, you know, with what I was doing and very grateful and very thankful, even though it was grueling. And I mean, I didn't have a minute for myself. And I remember like I had been in New York for three years and I had never gone out or met friends or, you know, I just, you know, my life became the office.

10:45No, but the thing is that this thing about leaving Bob and maybe having a little bit of change of direction, it also happened by chance. I went to a party at MoMA, some sort of drinks, benefit, or whatever. While there, I met a couple of guys that were working for Mark Hampton. The legendary designer, Mark Hampton. Legendary. Talk about legendary, right? We started talking. I started talking to these guys who are still my friends. And one of them is Markham Roberts, you know, very famous, you know, very famous interior designer. We have nicknames for each other, which I won't repeat. Oh, I wish you would.

11:31All right. We'll talk about that off the air. But, you know, he's like, hey, we are looking for somebody who's like in between architecture and interiors and blah, blah, blah. And I think you would love to work for us. And I took the meeting, very skeptical. You know, I never in a million years would have imagined that I would be doing anything with decorating, you know, with upholstery and curtains and rugs, you know. It's something that when you study architecture and you come from that mindset, it's almost like a heresy, you know. You don't talk about it, you don't think about it. It's like space and light, you know, supposed to exist by itself.

12:17And you know what I mean? And it's like, oh, my God, if we only didn't need, you know, a chair. If only we didn't need all that pesky furniture and window treatments. Exactly. You almost don't want to think about it. It ruins the space. No. So, I felt like I was taking this meeting with Mark Hampton. I was like being, you know, it was almost like I was cheating on my husband, you know? But anyway, so there I went, very skeptical to talk to Mark. But then there was Mark, and Mark absolutely sort of seduced me. He knew everything about everything else. I mean, not only about architecture and design and film and music and, oh, you want to talk Bossa Nova?

13:04Let's talk Bossa Nova and then talk to Carlos Jobim. And I mean, he totally seduced me. And I said, I want to work with this guy. And so I quit. Bob was furious. Furious, right? I mean, he thought you were making the mistake of your life. The biggest mistake of my life. And he used this very derogatory word, decorator. He's like, I can't believe you're going to go work for a decorator. As if that was the biggest insult that he could hurl. Right. Exactly. You know, so that's the first time that I heard it, you know, spoken in that manner. Decorator. You know, a decorator. So I was like, well, I don't know, Bob, I'm sorry.

13:50I need to do this. You know, and it was that. And, you know, I had a, it was short. It was like a year and a half. And working with Alexa, who was a baby, you know, at the time. Yes. Yes. And Mark and this other guy, Luca. And we had like a pre-fund team and we're very close and tight knit. And I had a great time. I'm sure you did. I'm sure there were golden days. I mean, sadly, Mark was going to be in declining health as it turned out. Yeah, he was. So Mark, you know, through the time that I was there, you know, was ill and, you know, eventually, you know, went to the hospital and wasn't, it wasn't, he wasn't as present at the end, you know.

14:34So, and it's one of those things that you don't really realize what just happened after it's over. Like afterwards, I'm like, wow, I just spent a year and a half working with Mark Hampton, you know, and it was amazing. It was incredible. Well, and I wonder, and I was going to wait until we got through all the legendary figures that you worked with, But I'm so curious what you learned from, I mean, as intense as I know it was working for Robert A.M. Stern, what you felt you learned there, what you felt you took away from working with the incredible Mark Hampton and fooling around with Alexa and Markham, which are such a fun group.

15:19I mean, I wonder how it shaped your thinking or what you feel you really took away from it. It's a clear answer for me. I mean, at Bob's, it was very, you know, we learn how to tell the story of a design, of a design intention, you know, how to draw a sheet, where to put the plan, where to put the elevations, you know, how to work with scale, how to work with line weight. But Bob was really a school about creating the expression of how to tell the story to sell a design, you know, to kind of to explain your intention. You know, that was really an amazing school. There was a very regimented. There was a very regimented way of doing things.

16:05It was great, you know, and it was a great lesson. And then Mark, it was all about the conversation and the charm and lifestyle. It was one thing that it was this very distinct difference between working for an architect and working for this mega legendary decorator. The architects are all about the technical and the discipline and the scientific, right? and the decorator you know and i use this word as a as a as a compliment not as a as a pejorative is the lifestyle you know he understood how his clients lived you know and and that is something that is uh because he lived it himself and that is something that is uh uh is really important It really makes a mark on you because what is it, right?

17:05What is design other than really understanding how people want to live, you know, and how people live? And that was Mark. Yeah. And then, so after Mark Hampton, and I don't know how you ended up going to work for Greg Jordan, if that was another connection that was made or… Yeah, I actually had a big stint at Ferguson-Schumamian, who were these incredible, more traditionalists, right? You know, these guys can do a classical building better than anyone else. Because actually, they were working in some projects with Mark Hampton. So that seemed like a natural switch for me. And I felt like there, I was kind of like playing a little bit of both roles.

17:55I was back at Stern in a sense, but doing ultra classical, more decorative, more ornate work. So I felt like I was being a little bit of both at Ferguson. And they gave me a lot of freedom. They let me design. They let me create presentations. And I actually worked for them for a long time. And the thing about Greg, it was a whole Southern thing also that I haven't had an exposure to it. So it was something interesting to learn and to understand the whole vibe. It was great. Well, and I mean, it was so interesting that you went. So after Mark, you went to Ferguson, Shmami, and then suddenly you were back in that architectural world again.

18:47and then left to go to Greg Jordan. And I'm thinking, what is taking you so long to go out on your own? Right. Well, and so going back to our conversation about business school early with my dad is because I never thought I had it in me to be able to be my own business. It was something very scary. I mean, it is still scary. I never thought I had it in me to be able to do it. I trust myself 100 % in my ability to create. That is a gift that I'm thankful every day that it comes to me. My mind doesn't run dry. But you switch that to the ability of being a businessman and charging properly and keeping hours and understanding my value.

19:46or being able to almost like, you know, send a voice without apologizing to my clients, you know, and I'm a disaster. You know, it is a challenge, still is, you know. So that's why it was taking me so long because I knew that I could do the work. I just didn't know or didn't understand that I could do it on my own.

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21:02You go and work for a Robert A.M. Stern alum, right, in Sawyer Burson and Brian Sawyer. and is he encouraging you to go out on your own? Is he saying you can do it? I mean, or I mean - No, and that's the funny thing because Brian is one of my closest friends and still is, you know, a true mentor. He and I, I mean, I love him. He's one of my closest friends and I thought at the time, well, okay, maybe this is really the right thing to do, you know, because, you know, we're so close and I really understand Brian's aesthetic and I think he understands mine. And I said, this is going to be the perfect situation, finally.

21:44You know, like where I, you know, I love this guy. How fun is it going to be to design together and to work together and all of that? And what happened, and it was, you know, for the time that it lasted, it was. But what started to happen was that I started to see a person that is so similar to me and so close to me, you know, that I have such sort of great friendship and respect doing it. And that inspired me, you know, and I said, well, if he can do it, I can do it. And it was just that it was just seeing Brian so intimately being a businessman and running a business that ended up inspiring me.

22:28And I remember he's like, I remember when I walked into his office, you know and he's like don't he's like don't tell me you're gonna no and I said I know and he's like and I said Brian I I can't help it like I I see you working every day you know and I all of a sudden I just I just realized I was like I I want to do this too I can do it you know Brian and I parted very amicably and we're still best friends uh so when you finally did go out on your own Did you have a great big project to take with you? Or did you have things that were bubbling up? I mean, what was the very beginning? In your 40s?

23:09Should we tell that? Exactly. In my mid-40s, I didn't have a big job. I didn't have anyone saying, come do this for me. I just quit. And I said, I'm going to enjoy or I'm going to try to enjoy the space of being by myself. And the first thing that I did, obviously, it was the one thing that I could do well, was to offer sketching services to other designers. So I quit my job at Brian Sawyer, at Sawyer Burson, and then I started to charge them for my sketches. and Stephen Gambro and William and Bill Georges. Okay. And, you know, and a bunch of big guys that, and Ralph Lauren, you know, Alfredo Paredes, you know.

24:01Sure. Yeah, everyone wanted a sketch. And what Ralph was interesting because they used to use me to present new projects to Ralph, you know, so I was very proud of that. So it's like, oh, we're going to do this big new mansion on Madison. So we need to create a really interesting, beautiful, sexy watercolor to show to Ralph. So he approves the project. And that's what I did. And so then I was like, okay. So I sent an invoice and I charged for my sketches. And that's how I started. Well, so and did that just suddenly open a lot of doors for you? Yeah. Yeah. So it was like, oh, you're doing this and oh, great.

24:47And then my my ex-partner and I got a new apartment. So it's like, well, why don't you do it? So I did our home and then our home got photographed and it was like in in Casa Vogue in Brazil. And then and then we redecorated a few times and it got shot a few times and it got published. And then that led to the phone calls. And then that's that's kind of how it started. Well, so tell me how you think about your style, because, I mean, you and I were talking recently, and often people will use words like masculine or strong when they talk about your work. I think even your client, Lauren Santo Domingo, talked about that, right, in her project that was just published, like that was part of the woods and the dark woods and all of that feel.

25:35I mean, tell me how you think about it. And I feel like your father certainly had a big influence. Yes. And the things you saw when you were young that he was doing. I mean, tell me. Yeah, there's no question. I was influenced by all that. And that was like, that was what was instilled on me. And whether you want to call it masculine and, you know, I mean, those terms are, you know, so misinterpreted these days. Does that feel dated or does that feel like an obtuse way to describe it? No, between you and me, I love it. I have no problem being called masculine.

26:21It's kind of ironic to me because I was the sensitive kid who was bullied and who took a while to sort of come in into my own. And so all of a sudden that, you know, I'm defined as a masculine designer. I think it's, you know, if anything is like, oh, okay. Like I wasn't allowed that when I was younger, you know, so this is great. I'm very proud of it. But I feel like the influence is for sure, you know, their mid-century design, that kind of stuff, you know, that kind of relationship with form and function and materiality. and is this time when people were concerned about a simplicity of form you know um they weren't so into ornament or anything that felt like frivolous or anything like you know those are the the principles that were unintentionally like instilled on me just by being in that in the surrounding that I grew up.

27:25So I'm very proud and honored that that comes out into what I do. But I think more than anything is also the architect in me. It's always helping me make the decisions. I see things very geometrically. I think of a room as the golden proportion and the golden rectangular the golden square and then i i start imagining furniture pieces as as cubes and spheres and pyramids and for me it's like you know everything starts that way you know so i'm not embarrassed or annoyed you know at all about all of that and i just feel like you know i love when people see that and want to explore that um you know you mentioned lauren yeah it was very uh i was surprised you know like i haven't met lauren before many times you know i met her socially a couple of times and i think i knew her sort of like her personality her her social persona this fashion sort of icon um and everything that i had seen that had to do with like her interiors and her environments you know had more of a like it's ultra chic and ultra refined you know more of a traditional vibe, right?

28:49So when she approached us and she's like, I want to do mid-century masculine, I was like, wow, that is a side of view that I don't think people have seen it. And I think she brought the best out in us. Well, and it sounded as if, and this is a project that we should tell listeners, it was Jackson Hole Project, and it's the December cover of of architectural digest since this is just happening just just so recently so here you are the cover of architectural digest and and i'm assuming that uh that all sorts of people are are reaching out to you and i'm always curious in this day and age what happens for you when this when this happens i was just recently chatting with with brooke and steve gianetti and and talking about when Jennifer Garner is suddenly on the cover of Architectural Digest and taking them on a tour of the house that they did with her and how their world sort of blows up.

29:51And I'm wondering how it is for you and what happens. I don't know yet. You know, the answer is that I don't know yet. But I have to say, the phone seems to ring constantly. you know it's it sometimes it's more sometimes it's less but it's kind of always ringing and and maybe they will ring more and they would ring you know with different people i don't know but you know i'm i feel very blessed that you know when some projects are finishing they're all of a sudden they're amazing other opportunities that show in front of us that you know that we take and And I'm very grateful and very thankful that we seem to have a decent cadence of interest.

30:39And I don't know exactly what to owe that, but I am the worst in terms of showing up to events, to RSVPing. I didn't want to say that, but I got that sense, Andre. I don't know if you're out there pushing yourself forward enough. I don't know. No, and I've only recently started speaking with a PR firm of actually friends of mine who I think are going to do something together. But I never spoke to a PR company. I never knew exactly what I'm supposed to be doing, what I'm not supposed to be doing. Am I supposed to be doing this? Am I supposed to be showing that photo? oh, I'm the king of like, you know, I play with my own Instagram and I'm the king of like post and erase and, you know, and embarrass yourself and then take it out.

31:37And, you know, and I'm, no, I am that person. But thankfully, every once in a while, I finished something and I'm grateful enough that I have very talented photographers and stylists that want to work with us. And then we create some pretty great images and I'm able to throw that in front of an editor and they say, okay, we'll publish, you know, so it's been, it's been kind of like that, you know, we'll see, we'll see if it, we'll see if there's going to be any change, you know, I, I am feeling a little bit of a need for like a little bit more structure. Well, and it looks great. So, I mean, congratulations on all of that.