Benjamin Noriega-Ortiz: 'Designers need to learn to take the blame'

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is architect and designer Benjamin Noriega Ortiz. After an idyllic childhood in Puerto Rico, Benjamin was set to pursue higher study in math. Instead, he chose architecture and found himself working for legendary New York designer John Celadino. After setting up his own firm in the 90s, Benjamin built a legend of his own, designing boutique hotels for Ian Schrager and homes for celebrities like Lenny Kravitz. I spoke with Benjamin about learning to design like a painter, how he trains architects to think like designers, and why he writes a story for every project, but doesn't always tell the client.

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2:48I want to jump in and just share one of my favorite stories with you, which is the point in your career that you work on the 30 Crosby Street building, and you complete the project, and you're approached by a fellow named Lenny Kravitz, who I don't think that name meant much to you at the time, if I recall. Yes? It didn't. Yeah, it didn't. I have to say, I grew up in a musical town in Puerto Rico. It's all about music. Okay. And I learned the local music when I was growing up. International music, I was not really aware. The Beatles, I learned the Beatles when I moved here. Later in life, when you came to America?

3:35I said, oh, yeah, they must have been around when I was in Puerto Rico. so Lenny Kravitz is somebody that I never in my life heard the name so I had an office on on Spring Street and Crosby and when I moved to when we moved to Crosby Street there was not much going on in Soho at the time in in that area of Soho so my friend read that rented a space and say oh you have to come and there's another one available I want you to be with me this is going it'll be great he's a hardware manufacturer er butler we've leased a space at like four dollars a square foot you know five thousand square feet space half of it was yoga studio for me and things like that it was really luxurious space luxury how nice that you can i mean we rented

4:26so as it turned out there was a there's a small little bar called enya the letter n with a little on the top across the street from 30 Crosby. And a developer decided to buy that building to develop it into residential. And at the time, I don't know if it's still happening, you could only be an artist to live in Soho. Yes, those were the days. Those were the days. So he started, you know, he got the place and then he started interviewing people. And then he got a hall of that. I was in the neighborhood and he's Dominican and I'm Puerto Rican, so Spanish connection. So he came to my office, you know, she asked to come for an interview to see if we could do this project.

5:09So I went to see the project without him, just to see it was down the street, literally one block down. So I went down there and I said, well, this could be really cool. So when he came back, he talked to me and he said, you know, I'm in conversation with Armani to do this, you know, and I said, you know, let me just be clear with you. I live a block walk away. This is a perfect project for us. You get Armani. You're not getting Armani. So he's dangling the fact that he's thinking of hiring Giorgio Armani to do the project. He's like, you know what? You're never going to get Armani. So don't even think about that.

5:45Now you hire me, you get me personally. I mean, I have a staff, but I love this project. Armani's not going to show up to the meetings. I will. So anyway, so he hired me to do the lobby and the bathrooms and the kitchens and all the apartments. And so the apartment started selling and then Courtney Love bought an apartment and Lee Kravitz bought an apartment and all these other musicians, artists. And then one day I was traveling with Steven, I don't know, I think it was for his birthday. We went to Venice and I get a call just a couple of days before that Lenny Kravitz wanted to meet with me on Sunday.

6:25And I I was arriving on Saturday. So I told my friend, the developer, I said, well, just tell him that I don't meet anybody on Sunday. This is, I mean, I'm going to be coming back from a trip. I have to get ready. I'm not going to meet anybody on Sunday. And then my husband overheard the name Lenny Kravitz. So I hung up the phone and he says, what's Lenny Kravitz? What is that about? I said, well, they wanted me to meet some guy, Lenny Kravitz, to do a partner. He said, you know who that is? I said, actually, I have no idea who he is. I said, will you call them back and tell them, yes, you're going to meet him on Sunday.

7:03You'll be happy to meet with him. So I called back and I said, I'm sorry, I apologize. Yes, I'll meet you on Sunday. We came back on Saturday and Sunday I go to the office to prepare my portfolio and everything. And then he shows up all fabulous and everything by himself. All alone, no entourage. All alone to the office. it. And first thing he says, I apologize that I had to meet you on Sunday because I have a concert on Monday. I was trying to move it, but I couldn't. He's probably sold out at Madison Square Garden or something, right? But he couldn't move it. I mean, and he was the sweetest person as always he is.

7:38And so I said, I started showing him my portfolio and he said, no, no, no. I want you to design my place. I don't need to see anything. I saw what you did and I want that. And then, you know left and then we started the next day the next day i just showed up contracts get written and everything and then we started uh it was really fascinating because started very very quickly uh because the building was in construction and i was involved in the construction remember that i was doing all the apartments right so i already had the drawings of his apartment i already had an idea what the apartment could be before he bought it and he bought the penthouse in the in the two floors and a roof so it was a two floors and right one half of the building actually this was the first building in so that had a doorman with with gloves this is this was a sign of it really getting gentrified in soho right when the when the white glove doorman building with gloves yeah that was unbelievable for people would pass by and laugh like Look at that.

8:43Still there. And the lobby that we design is still there. It's still there. It's still there. And so you start the project. And if I remember, the first thing that you ended up buying was this. A piano. It was a piano. We had not even designed the concept of the interior. We haven't put it together yet. And then I'm walking down the street on Lafayette Street. and there was a modern antique store down in the basement. So I looked in the window. I see this clear acrylic piano. And I was with my husband. I said, doesn't Lenny like the 70s? That's like what he likes? You know, I see the bell buttons and everything.

9:23Oh, yeah, yeah. So I go down there and I say, is this piano available? And I said, yeah, this is from the state of Igman Bourbon. And we just got it. and it was like a hundred and some thousand dollars. And so I said, hold on one second. I think I have somebody for this. So I went outside in my flip phone, you know, the ones that you give me from Star Trek. So I called him up and I said, well, you know, sorry to bother you, but there's a spectacular clear piano in this store. Go away. And he says, wait, I have a credit in that store. Let's get it. It's a nice house account. I'm going to go and try and use his name.

10:04Well, you know, he likes furniture. Yes. Right? He was very passionate. He loves furniture. He's very passionate. He collects furniture. He knows periods and everything. So it was not surprising to me that somebody like that would have credit in that store. So I said, okay, fine. So Piano started the design of the apartment. That was the first thing we bought. And what a great time. And we did like three or four projects together. And you worked with him for years, right? I mean, it was a relationship. I feel like probably 2004, 2005. Yeah, until he did his own firm. Did you ever tell him that in the beginning you had no idea who he was?

10:42Did you ever share that with him? I think my husband did. Your husband probably wanted to tease about that. Yeah. He's more into music. I don't, I mean, I know who Taylor Swift is, and I know about Bunny, who they are, but he liked, my husband liked all that, the entourage going around. like Lenny could have a party call us at 2 in the morning hey Naomi is here making chicken can you come and I said I said Stephen Naomi is Naomi what well I assume he's not the model yeah I mean that's what I'm assuming right I mean he drops Naomi sure enough show up get dressed and here's Naomi Glamorous making chicken so i love all that i mean it was very exciting to be in that kind of like impromptu environment this is just who they're hanging out with they're just hanging out with uh supermodels i mean that's just right it is that's the life that people live yeah well and and so did that was that part of what opened up this this big world to you you worked with lots of very well-known yeah i mean i i was starting to get i had just finished work for laura skivel that war she wrote like uh like water for chocolate so that was a lot of attention yeah but lenny because lenny knew so many people and the apartment actually was like a hotel we designed it like a boutique hotel a lot of the editors like like when the good man that went to see it she said you know, you need to do hotels because this is really like a hotel.

12:25So the work went out and made with Ian Schrager to do the Gramercy. But then he said, you're not good for this, but I'll have another one for you. And then all of a sudden they created Morgan's Hotel Group and started branding the Mondrian Hotels. So the first branding was in Arizona. So we ended up doing that one. And then as we're doing Arizona, then they gave us LA. And then as we're doing LA, they gave us New York. So it was all one after the other. And do you think the perception that people had of you, yes, your work, but also they see you hanging out with Lenny Kravitz. They see you with all of these people.

13:11Does that help to sort of buttress the image of you that people had in their heads? Well, you know, marketing and publicity is really strange. I didn't hang out with them. I really didn't. I mean, you were over there a few times at two in the morning eating chicken, but sure. But I would know in public I will not be doing that because that's not my scene. I'm kind of like oblivious to the whole celebrity thing because I see everybody. I see them as my clients. right and i can defer to them and a lot of them i cannot even mention who they are because nothing has been published i mean this one's that you mentioned that you know people know but there's others that i can't i can say so um that's one of the things that i think designers are entrusted to to keep like the privacy of clients because we know we know what's in your drawers you know we know what's in your closet yeah it's in the kitchen we know what you do at what time of the day because we have to design for it dealing with clients you need a lot of psychology because you need to you have to be to please so many people you know there's the husband the wife or the husband and the husband and the wife or the wife there's the ceo and then there's the CFO.

14:35So you're constantly battling this, what you're going to say and what you're not going to say. And, you know, I've been very fortunate. My staff has always been very quiet about my clients. I imagine that, you know, Michael Smith that did the Obama White House and he was working at Saladino when I was there. I imagine that they don't say a word about anything. Yeah, no, no, no. No, and he's talked about that and how challenging that is. And he talked about how challenging it is to keep all of your vendors in line. You have to create new names. Yeah. Like I think I told you before that Lenny always said, please don't use my name anywhere because I don't want the Rockstar Prize.

15:25I want the regular people prize. He didn't want to be charged the Rockstar Prize. And you know what? And I learned that it's the case. A lot of vendors just think that because people are wealthy or famous, they overcharge. And I say, no, no, no, that's not the way it is. So anyway, so it's a fun thing to try to deal with it. Well, I mean, it's interesting how it came to you. And it's such a giant leap from your childhood in Puerto Rico. I'm sure part of you could never have imagined the world, right, that you would end up working in that was so different from where you grew up. A very, very different.

16:06I mean, I grew up in San Juan and Luquillo Beach. So most of the time we're on the beach, like literally on the beach, like on the sand. Right. That's where we grew up. And then when we went to the country, the countryside, which is something that I mentioned in my first book, is all green. It's all monochromatic. so all of that in you know affects my interiors and what we do for for interiors and it affects the way i deal with all the celebrities because you know i the celebrities in my town were the guy that sells the ice cream the guy that um the woman in the cafeteria in school that would give you extra milk but then my family being politics the other famous people were people were in the government.

16:56And I'm not a politician at all, but over there in a small town, the word is out because my last name being Noriega and all, not the one from Panama, but the one from Puerto Rico. Well, and so who in the family was involved in politics? One of my uncles was in the Senate for about 30 years. I see. He's a cousin of my father. And then my brother who passed away was in the popular party. There's two parties. I think there's three now. So he was campaigning always from town to town to town. Plus the volleyball people. That was another thing. Well, so I didn't realize that your father was a professional volleyball player.

17:38Yeah, when he was younger. But I mean, good for him because he was obviously athletic and also had the math skills. Because I was wondering, you were so good at math and science as a young person. wanted me to be an accountant he could not understand that i was going to study architecture okay i wonder why are you studying what is that because in puerto rico architecture means engineers engineers are the ones that build built architecture when i started architecture there architecture was very fresh like there were not that many architects and my father said you're not gonna get any where are you going with this like you're not gonna get any money on this and And then when I finished my first master's and decided to do a second one, he said, well, that's a waste of money.

18:28Here you are going to study what? Urban design? What is that? So, you know, if he was alive, he could see that now I'm doing the bookkeeping for my own firm. He would see that you did develop your accounting skills. He's probably looking from heaven down and say, see? I told you you're going to end up with a good profession. Well, I mean, it is so interesting because, and I can't remember when you took the year abroad, but that had such a huge impact. 1980, yeah. It was a requirement in school to spend at least like three or four months in Europe. So a lot of us went to Europe because we love Italy and learn Italian.

19:14So we stayed with families in Italy. And that changed the perspective of everything because it was the first time I left home. And we went to see my favorite painter of all time is Caravaggio. So I went to see my first Caravaggio in Florence. And then I went to Rome when there's dozens. And I was in heaven. I was like looking at these paintings and crying because they're the real thing. I said, I'm seeing the real brushstrokes of these painters. This is where these people live. And there I was in Puerto Rico passing pages where they're not even printed properly. You know, like the color was incorrect.

19:59I don't know. It gets emotional. My husband makes fun of me about things like that. Well, and you learned to speak Italian fluently? Yes. And yes, I mean, and you really, I mean, you really immersed yourself in the culture and it would come to serve you well because as I recall, it's part of what your future boss, John Saladino, really loved about you. That's one of the reasons I was hired, yeah, back when I graduated. I graduated in 83 and I started working with an architect, my dean. because I was going to continue with a PhD. You were just like education, more education. I wanted to be in school forever.

20:47So then I wanted to do this PhD. And then so I was meeting with Dean Polshek and Polshek gets a call and he says, oh, my friend so-and-so needs a graduate student. Do you have time this summer to stay? And I was going to go back to Puerto Rico. I said, well, okay, I'll stay. So I stayed. And then while I was working with this architect, in one project for Dina Merrill. John Saladino was doing the work, the interiors, and I said, well, you know, I read about this company. Are they hiring? Because I didn't want to stay with the other architect. So I went to the library that night, all night, and I read all of these publications, every single project.

21:34and then I went the next morning and I handed my resume and I said, I would like to work here. He said, well, how do you know that we needed somebody? He said, well, I just learned that your designer that was working on a project, she had an accident. Like a true New Yorker, you know, you have an accident, the apartment becomes available. Yes, exactly. That's the real real estate section. Oh, right. Wait a second. Yes. So anyway, I went in. So they got me in interview with John. I started talking to John in Italian. And then I had just come from Italy. And we started comparing notes about Palladio.

22:11And then they hired me right away. So can you start tomorrow? I said, wait, I have things to do. So maybe, I think I went in August. So I started in October. You had to give notice at your other job. To get notice with this other guy. And I was the only one in that other job. It was an older architect that needed help. So I was doing everything in there.

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23:20And now, back to the show.

23:27Well, and for those that might not remember or aren't overly familiar with John Saladino, the great John Saladino, tell us a little bit about what was so remarkable and so much Italian influence in his work. And he was so inspired like you. To him, Italy is the birth of civilization, even though I.M. Pei told him, no, it's China. I.M. Pei tried to straighten him out on it, but he wouldn't hear it. No, it's China. So, John, no, no, it's Italy, it's elegance, it's the food, it's everything. So, he designed interiors in a different way than we do. We create some sort of a concept, a storyboard and everything.

24:12He had it in his head. He would walk into the place and he would see it and then try to communicate. And I was really good at learning what he wanted to say because I would quote from different projects. I said, oh, this is just like so-and-so architect that did this in Modena. Oh, yeah, that's right. So he got this sense of being comfortable with designing with me. So I was one of his designers, and then I began the head designer. So my job was to translate his concept to the rest of the office. and if there was any change that had to happen, I would make it without consulting him. I would tell him afterwards because if there were things that were, because I knew the concept, what he wanted to do so well, that I would tell him, you know, you were not here, you were traveling, the decision had to be made and I made the decision.

25:04And 99 % of the time he was, oh yeah, good decision. So I think one of the important things of becoming the head designer is that I was eager to take the blame. And to take the blame is one of the most important things designers need to learn. Somebody has to make a decision. Well, so tell me more about that. Tell me what you mean. So somebody has to make a decision. The clients come to you to make decisions. A lot of these very powerful people are making decisions all the time, but they cannot decide between two shades of green. Right. So you're the one that has to decide. And like it or not, your decision can cost millions of dollars.

25:45but it's your decision you're the one that is paid to make a decision if it's going to be a mistake try to make a little mistake not too big or what i used to call import opportunities for improvement i don't think in our office i don't see things as mistakes it's an opportunity and like you would later have he had a lot of very well-known clients i remember norman leer was a client and right and he was an amazing client norman lear he took me one time i was making fun of the architect because the architect that was working on the project was doing some stupid thing and i was young and i was like and then he pulled me aside but nobody saw me and i said don't ever make fun of people always treat people with the respect they deserve always do not do that again.

26:36Norman Lear. Wow. Straightened you out. And an important lesson. A very important lesson. Sounds like it stuck with you. I'm wondering what stuck with you from your time working with John Saladino. So John Saladino, master, genius, all these words. Also somewhat notorious for being pretty challenging to work for, if I recall. You know, he had a lot of fights with people he was very very strict but with me we got along extremely well i only had one disagreement in a project early on it was something that he yelled at me because he thought it was my fault and it was something that somebody else did so i just went to his office see i like to do these things in private i don't like to yell back like in front of everybody so i don't went to his office just like Norman did later.

27:31I said, John, you know that this was not my fault and I really don't appreciate you yelling at me. Please don't do that again because the next time I'm just going to walk out. And he never did it again. Never. Always asking for my opinion, always. And, you know, he dealt with design as a painter. He was really, in every project, he's creating a painting. He was designed. And that's how I learned to see interiors, like design for the camera that's where a lot of our projects got published so quickly because oh let's put a little bit of yellow here like otherwise people would say oh let's put a pillow there no no he's not talking about what it is he's talking about the color like put brown here put red here so he's over it's all about the color and in our in my way design color is the first thing that we select just like like he taught me color is the first thing furniture is the last did he share with you how the business was doing did you get a sense that he was that he was running uh a business well that it was a highly profitable place or did he not really share that that side of it with you i was away from all of that i was only design i was only in charge of designing and producing the project.

28:52I never knew if the office made money or didn't make money. Well, that's what I wondered because, I mean, that's what I had heard that he, I mean, and I don't know what the fee structure was or all of that, but it sounded like he didn't really share all that with you. No, not with the designers. He had people in the office that dealt with those things, the money people and the managers and things. I mean, plus also I was more involved in the architectural department right i ended up you know doing interiors but since i was an architect i started doing just the architecture so when when you learn the money part is when you start buying antiques and rugs and you know things that have markups which i never understood what that meant luckily you you you learn that quickly well i mean i don't do that in my projects You don't mark things up, you mean?

29:46No, I never mark anything up. I always do hourly. I'm supplying an expertise and you pay for the expertise. The object is up to you. Like you can buy a chair from West Elm or an antique from an 18th century piece that gets a million dollars. Put it next to it. if it goes well it goes well and it doesn't limit me of selecting something like if i put a markup i'm gonna make so much money if i sell this thing so that it locks me into selling something that i might not like so that's a mistake so you so you think that's a mistake that you i think i think in in hindsight after all these years not doing markup i find that is a mistake okay so you you wish you had started wish i had I'm just not structuring that anymore.

30:44Yeah. Because the thing is that as a designer, you make things work in your house. Like you could buy an expensive piece, but it doesn't fit or it doesn't go or it doesn't work. But a designer helps you get that. So I think they should be paid for that. And sometimes the hourly is not enough compared to the value of the piece that you are actually incorporating. Well, you were just talking about the fact that at Celadino, you were primarily focused on the architecture side. The design part of your career would come a little bit later. Tell me, first of all, I can't remember, was it eight, nine years that you worked for Celadino before going out on your own?

31:30Okay. When did you determine that it was time to go out on your own? What did you want to have happen? What was going on for you when it was time to leave? It was 1990.