Elle Decor's next chapter will be "bold, irreverent and international"

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guests this week are Stéline Velandes and Elisa Lipsky-Kuraz, the editorial leaders of El Decor. Stéline, the editorial and brand director of El Decor, is also the editor-in-chief of Town & Country and a Hearst veteran. She's been at T &C since 2011. Elisa, El Decor's head of brand and editorial content, has jumped around in media from WWD to Harper's Bazaar to WSJ Magazine. Together, they've taken the reins at El Decor after the publication's prior editor-in-chief, Asad Sirket, left in the fall of last year.

0:53I spoke with Steline and Elisa about why there's no one-size-fits-all approach to media, why designers need to consider the narrative when they submit projects to the magazine, and why boldness will be central to the success of El Decor.

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2:11All custom-sized and delivered in as little as two weeks. And when you join Ernesta's exclusive trade program, their team of dedicated consultants will manage everything from ordering samples to generating quotes, connecting all of the dots to support and streamline your business. Apply for membership today at ernesta.com slash boh. And now, on with the show. Let's jump in, though. So you both went to Milan, and you were just— I started in Milan. It was your first day. Well, so tell me about that. Well, I thought it was pretty good. I think it was day two when Mr. Armani showed up to say hi to us.

2:53At what point did you meet Mr. Armani? Yes. I started asking Celine, well, what's going to happen on day three then? How do you top this? Where do you go from there? No, we love Salone, and it was really exciting to see everybody. I think this year especially, Salone felt extremely vibrant, a lot of energy. There were people flying in from all over the world, from the sort of smaller makers to the large brands who we work with every day. It's just really exciting to be in the room with them. Well, and it seemed as if, I mean, it's always the case that fashion and the home world is really coming together.

3:32But this year, did it seem especially so? I mean, you tell me. Yes. I mean, I saw a taxi this morning as I was walking to work for New York Design Week, and it said design is for everyone. And the truth is— You're like, those are my people. Well, I thought I was like, I'm recording this today. This is a sign. But the truth is, all you have to do is go to Salone and also realize that design is everywhere. And that is something that the two of us believe. And you see that in the Elle Decor that we are doing. It is at the center of every conversation. And if anybody questioned that, all they had to do was be in Milan this year.

4:16Right. Where every single brand had a presence, had a presentation, had a role or wanted to have a role in this design week. I mean, this was the year we saw fashion influencers flying into Milan. So it really, you know, the tide has turned. And then I think the joy of Milan is that you have the other end. You have, you know, all of the sort of energy in the streets. Anybody who's even a design fan can line up and go into these exhibitions. It's open to the public. which is really wonderful. So the whole city comes alive. Yeah. No, that's the amazing thing about Milan. And I'm always curious what comes to the States after Milan.

4:58People talk about colors or trends or design statements that are made there. What really ultimately comes here? Sure. I mean, I think given how many people were there, the first thing you have to come back home with is a sense of the role design plays in the culture right now and how central it is to the culture and to the luxury market right now. And then there are certainly, and this is something that we saw even during Paris, Maison Objet and Deco off, The idea of design as a full five senses experience. I think we are so aware that design is something that is created by the human imagination, by skilled artisans, by craftsmanship.

6:00And I think we are looking at design now that is very craftsmanship visible. You want to touch it because the texture is there. The fabrics, there is embroidery and very apparent embroidery. It is, you know, we went to the Rose presentation, all the rooms were scented. It's this idea that design is all-encompassing and it surrounds you. And I think you see that in both the presentations that we saw, but also in the collections and the products that we saw. So day two, you're meeting Mr. Armani. He's on the cover. I think the room stopped when he entered. I can imagine. He's incredible. First of all, the first thing he did was check his cover and look at his article.

6:52Is that right? Yes. And make sure that he was happy with it, which he approved. He took a moment. I mean, he looks fantastic on the gover. By the way, he looks like that. And the apartment is gorgeous. I mean. And in New York. Armani lives on the Upper West Side. Apparently. I mean, Upper West Siders were very, very happy about that. But yes, he looked this good in real life. And he works the room. I think everybody was so happy to see him. And the architect, John Pawson, said afterwards, now that's a real celebrity after he went through the room. And then he also, his own waiters, This was at Bamboo Bar at the Armani Hotel in Milan.

7:29His waiters all gathered to take a picture with him because they were so excited. So I think everyone got a lift who wouldn't from seeing Mr. Armani. And then everyone did stay. You know, you can always tell a good party when there's a funny mix of people and everybody wants to hang out and stay. I feel like normally these things, people check in and leave, but not ours. Well, and there's so much to do, right, that people do, right, run around and all of that. And so, Stelene, was this months and months of back and forth and, oh, we didn't know to the last minute? I mean, was it a whole production for you?

8:05Sure. Well, the cover and the story, I had been talking to Mr. Armani's team, who I've worked with for many years. And, you know, it was a big year for Armani in New York, that Madison Avenue store and the residences opened. and this felt like the right next moment for him to celebrate. I mean, he loves New York, which if anyone knows me, knows that's the way to win my heart. Certainly. But he loves New York. This is an apartment, you know, a historic building. I mean, the stained glass windows are just like with that view. You do not get more New York. And so we shot it. Todd Everly shot it for us, which he hadn't done a magazine shoot in, I think he said, a decade.

9:00So that made us very happy, very proud. I wrote the story, and we shot it months before the cover when he was here. And it felt like just the right thing to have for the issue that we bring to Salone. And when I was going through JFK on the way to Salone, this was the only magazine that was sold out in Hudson News. I ran into Laura Dern recently, and she told me every single time she flies, she buys a copy of El Decor to take with her on the plane. So I think – and I've heard that from several other people. I've had many people pull me aside and go, well, you know it's my favorite magazine. So what's that about?

9:46So what do you think El Decor means to people and how is it perceived versus the rest of the shelter universe? I think El Decor is bold, is global. It's slightly irreverent. The truth is we want you to read El Decor in print or online, whether you're renovating or redecorating or decorating. It doesn't matter. It offers you something no matter what you are doing. And that is what every great piece of content should. First of all, it should make you care even when you think you don't. And it needs to entertain you. It needs to inform you. It needs to make you see something either for the first time or something you thought you knew to show you something you didn't know about it.

10:45And I think that what we are doing now at Elle Decor is making sure that even when it's a gorgeous project, and we're working right now on our A-list issue with some absolutely gorgeous projects, but even then you need to think, what does this project deliver to the reader? What does this designer want to say about what design can do, how it changes how we live, how it reflects how we live. And we approach design in that very serious way and with that very serious mission, but in a bold and fun and sometimes riotous way. And it's also so much of what you've done over the years at Town & Country and how you've raised the bar of what Town & Country gets to participate in because of the voice that you've brought to it.

11:48Is that fair to say? Well, I think what, again, whether it's El Decor or Town & Country, you need to listen to what the conversation is and you need to think of where you come into that conversation. And what I think we are doing now is really identifying all the places where design is a part of that conversation and making it very clear where Elle Decor becomes a part of that conversation and making sure it's always in the conversation. Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that and say that what we've discussed many times is that design is a lens through which you can view the entire world. This is a lifestyle and design magazine.

12:38So that's how we're approaching everything. Design touches how people want to live at home, of course, but also how they want to travel, where they want to eat, what they want to buy, what they want to give each other. This magazine also has a very rich history. You know, there were in the past, David Mamet wrote for Elle Decor on design. So there's really fun. I mean, Kevin Bacon participated about wallpaper. You know, it's a really fun moment. I'm eager to go back and read Kevin's thoughts on wallpaper. Exactly. Okay. We also want to bring forward a lot of the creatives who are behind the design.

13:19This is a magazine that has always celebrated creativity and the people who bring all of these rooms to life. You know, people live in these rooms. People made these rooms. So people celebrate in these rooms. So I think that's something that we really want to bring forward. We talk about how creatives are our celebrities at El Decor. So that's been something that's been really exciting to dive into this very rich world. It's also a very chic and sophisticated and, as Celine said, international title. That is unusual in the United States. We have very American titles here. This is an international title, and we open the doors to the whole world.

14:01And just because I know you love a preview, in our A-list issue, that idea of designers as our celebrities is taken to the next level. And you'll see that in the issue and also in a very fun extension of the issue on the site. Excellent. Okay. So when I got here and we were talking about the last time I spoke to El Decor people, right? So last time I was in conversation with Assad during the A-list being put together, Assad leaves. and I want to talk or just help me understand the shift that seems to have taken place with editorial director versus editor-in-chief and sort of what all of that means and the role that you play and I want to sort of introduce you both as well to listeners.

14:58Not everyone might know you both. So, but help me understand that shift and what it means. Um, Assad and I worked together. He did a, an incredible job. And so Assad decided to leave and I immediately started to, um, work on the brand in a much more direct and hands-on way. And then I'd known Elisa for many years and her work and we were friends and I read her news and I thought this is a perfect, uh, partner in crime for me. and I think that's the best way to understand what we do. I'm editorial and brand director. I have oversight of the print magazine, the website, social, and also all the brand extensions.

15:52Okay. But we work together. I mean, we also work very similarly in that we work constantly. So, So from that first meeting, I knew that I had met someone who loves it as much as I do, who thinks as broadly about brands and who should be a part of them as much as I do. And it all worked out.

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17:06So tell us where you were before and a little bit about your background so that listeners can understand. Yes. Well, my very first job was working at Hearst for Harper's Bazaar. I was hired by Kate Betts, who was editor-in-chief. I was her assistant. and then I you know media is a very sort of vibrant and exciting place I think I moved many different times when I was young and then I went back to Harper's Bazaar as the features director so that was round two at Hearst and by then this building had been built and I actually worked on this floor and I'm trying to figure out if I was am in currently the same office we can't tell yet I'm not.

17:45You think it might. I'm lost in the, you know, stans of time. Do you get a vibe? Do you get a sense that you might have worked in this office before? So it was like basically I just can't remember exactly which one. And then I was at the Wall Street Journal and WSJ Magazine for many 12 years. And Staline, for you, just give people a little bit of a sense. Yeah, of your. Well, I mean, I was an intern at El Decor under Mary McAvoy. Oh, my goodness. And Peggy Russell was the design and decoration editor. Charles Bricker was here. It was a great, great time. A heady time. A heady time. I was Michael Boudreaux's assistant at Vogue, who later became the editor-in-chief of El Decor, and who has a story in the next issue.

18:36And then I was also assistant to Richard David's story at Vogue and then went on to work for him at Departures for almost a decade. And then I came to Town & Country. Jay Fieldin hired me. And when he became editor-in-chief of Esquire, I was promoted to editor-in-chief of Town & Country, where I remain. And then in 2020, I became editorial director of El Decor and soon hired Assad as editor-in-chief. So I've been working on both brands since 2020 and am now, you know, fully immersed in both brands, you know, across all platforms, as we say. Yeah, I was going to say, we're actually just engineers.

19:29I don't know what you're talking about. We just started in this industry. We're actually both influencers. We just got here. We've got a lot of followers and we hope you'll call off. How do you do all that you do in a day? Because, you know, it's like I, you know, obviously work. You know, the truth is we love to do it, which for me is that's the key. I mean, we both love doing this. More than anything, that is what I hope comes across in, you know, whether we are, you know, doing a video series or you're picking up the magazine at an airport. We love doing this. And for me, that's always, that's the key.

20:14Yeah. And we do have a very exciting video series coming up tied to the A-list. You see this? You asked how we work together. Okay. Yes, you're just, you're yes-ending. There's a lot of sort of improv action happening here. I love it. Okay. So look for an exciting video series coming when exactly. When the A-list breaks in mid-June. In mid-June. Okay. I want to talk about this new issue, but I want to stay with magazines for a minute. Because to your point, you have to be passionate about magazines. It's a challenging environment in media. And I always feel like media comes on the back foot a little bit.

20:56And, oh, no, the magazine is this. And now we're doing video. And now we're doing that. I mean, I want to talk about the positive side of that. I want to talk about what magazines mean to people and also hear from you who you imagine the reader is when you're creating the magazine, what you're thinking about, and what you – as you were saying earlier, Stelene, what you want them to be getting out of all of this. Well, first of all, I don't think of only the person picking up the magazine. I also think of the person who wakes up and looks at their phone when they wake up, right? That, to me, is also who we create for.

21:37And that's why you need to think about, for this brand, right? I mean, or for any brand you're working on. I obviously think about it for TNC all the time, too. But when they are waking up, what do they want to hear from your brand? And what can their brand tell them on that specific day that feels right on that specific day? you need to be a part of the current conversation. And yes, sometimes there's a beautiful room that is timeless and gorgeous at any time, but media right now also needs to constantly feed the conversation in its own voice. And I think that as, you know, you wake up and there are endless, endless, you know, people talking to you, But when you hear something, it needs to immediately sound like Elle Decor.

22:39And that's the kind of joy of it for me. We think of this in a very, not just digital first, but mobile first way. We know where we are meeting people. But I also think that one thing that's very important is that I personally, and I think would agree, that it's, I disagree with the idea that media is challenged. I think more than ever, we are all immersed in media in a more significant way than ever before. You know, we've been in this industry, I think both of our careers, I'm sure we've had people telling us that, oh, media is challenged. And yet, if you have something to say, people come, a good story is a good story is a good story.

23:25So that story can come from, you know, anywhere in the industry or anywhere. And it could be somebody, I love the idea that there's creators on Instagram and on TikTok that are in this space that are giving ideas. Those are part of our ecosystem too. Well, and so, Staline, I mean, that's the concept of speaking to the reader or the consumer of your media every day is something very different for a magazine to talk about. So that speaks to a real evolution. Yeah. I mean, I think though that I don't think either of us or anyone really working on this floor in this building only thinks of themselves as a magazine.

24:09I mean, I wake up, you know, every day. And first of all, we both write for the site and for the print issue. I mean, you just, that's how it is. And also, what a thrill to be able to go to TAFAP on Friday and get a story up on it on Friday night. I mean, you know, I think that the wonderful challenge now is to think what each platform can do that the other cannot do. And what you have to do is then exploit those properties. But make sure that all of it is of a quality deserving of your title and make sure that it is speaking in a voice that is specific and particular to your title. You know, I say this all the time, but like if something is good, you're going to get an audience.

25:04You just are. And you just have to care that everything is good, which means, yes, the cover lines are good and specific to your brand. The captions are good and specific and deliver something to your reader. Your Instagram captions are in a voice that feels individual to your brand. And that offers something. When you start to have lazy display, lazy Instagram captions, lazy digital stories, you're just one in how many billion. And what we have to be is, is El Decor specifically and 100%, no matter where. To the point about social media and designers are struggling with how to navigate this complex world today.

26:01And we've been having a lot of conversations with designers recently who don't feel comfortable promoting themselves or putting themselves out there. And yet we discover that a lot of designers are using Instagram in a paid manner to prioritize their posts and sort of get themselves out there. Everybody's trying to sort of figure out, right, what's working today. And designers, some designers are doing great and other designers, oh, gee, business isn't as great as it once was during COVID perhaps. And so I wonder what you hear and how you sort of process and think about to your point about how Elle Decor shows up on social and where you're finding the most success.

26:44You know, is it reels that are working for you? The video that you want to create for the A-list group, for example, is that a high priority because you're getting a clear message that video is moving the needle? Yeah, I think, though, that the same thing that I would say to designers applies to our approach. It depends on what story you're telling. Sometimes all you need is a beautiful still image and great text explaining it. I mean, design is a living three-dimensional experience. You do want certain rooms and certain stories to be told through video or via a reel. I think just having this, you know, one size fits all approach is what gets us all in trouble.

27:38The same way every designer goes into a project and thinks, where is this room? What story do you want to tell? And I think that's true of designers and their Instagrams. And I think the more you develop a particular voice and a particular approach that feels not only right to you, but feels like you, the more successful that you'll be. And designers who want to be on the pages of El Decor, as I assume all designers do, how should they be thinking about the time involved, the commitment, the withholding of images so that nothing is out there, all of that? I mean, I think that's a really interesting, I think we have discovered projects on Instagram.

28:35So I think teasing them sometimes is not a bad idea. Okay. I think, you know, once we express interest and a deal has been brokered, then stop posting. But I think that we are all partners in this industry and in this business. And I think that we want to always make sure that we are supporting designers and the design industry. And we also just want to make sure our communication is clear and as prompt as possible. I know promptness is something that designers always have a problem with. they want to know if, if we're, when and, um, where we're going to run their project. Um, and so I think all of us, um, need to, need to be focused on that.

29:35And I think then just sharing as much as possible with, with us about the project and the story behind it. But I kind of think about that sometimes when a designer sends a project with no details, no narrative of, you know, even if the client is anonymous, tell us how you met, tell us what the challenges were. Because, I mean, there was a project recently where we were really looking for something that told the story about the long game and about how patience is a virtue, difficult as it is. And we came across this project that was an extraordinary project, but we placed it almost immediately because the designer was open with us about just how long it all took.

30:35You want to talk patience? Let me tell you about this project. And the designer did not know, you know, we were working on that theme. Right. But just the generosity of explaining to us. And, you know, I think in thinking about, right, we have a certain number of print issues. Yes, I think designers now are very open to their stories on digital because of its impact. And, you know, people get clients off of Instagram all the time. And so I think that's great. But yes, there are some designers that only want print because, again, I talked about sort of what print can do. There is a lavishness and, you know, just the sheer luxury of 10-page story is something print delivers.

31:34Yes. And I think sometimes it's gorgeous and you want it immediately, but sometimes, you know, we only have a certain number of print issues. Help us locate it, right? And I'm so glad you said that. Help frame this, help tell a story, help us connect more to these images so that it might fit in better with something or maybe brings to mind something we weren't even thinking of, right? Yeah.