House & Garden: How a British magazine became a must-read for American designers

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is the editor of House and Garden, Hada Bing. Though House and Garden is a British magazine, it's become a must-read for many American designers who flock to Hada's publication for its storytelling and production value, its classic English style, and its focus on great homes, not celebrities. I spoke with Hada about why she's been embracing digital platforms like TikTok and WhatsApp, why she wants the homes in her magazines to be believable, and how House and Garden provides comfort in a time of instability.

0:57This podcast is sponsored by Lalloy, maker of rugs, pillows, and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. This season, Lolloy introduces a breadth of new collections for all styles, all aesthetics, and all price points. Visit lolloyrugs.com to see what's new and sign up for a trade account. That's L-O-L-O-I rugs dot com. And follow them on Instagram and TikTok at lolloyrugs. This podcast is also sponsored by CLASFs, the world leader in sauna luxury. At-home wellness rooms are on the rise, and CLASFs designs saunas for the discerning eye. With nearly a century of storied craftsmanship and innovation, CLASFs has perfected the art of sauna.

1:46The result? Distinct and elegant designs that harness the transformative powers of heat. There are saunas, and then there are KLAFs saunas. To learn more about the leaders in sauna luxury and their exclusive trade programs, visit klafsusa.com. That's K-L-A-F-S-U-S-A dot com. And now, back to the show. So I was going to ask you, I mean, so with your father, growing up with your father being a geologist, Was there ever a thought in your mind about pursuing any part of that? Did his work seem interesting and engaging and alluring? Not really. I think by the time children came on the scene, it felt like he was pretty death-bound.

2:36And so, yes. I mean, we always saw him as a sort of fountain of knowledge. If we went for a walk, he could tell us about any rock or anything that we wanted, or how the land had formed like that. But I don't think I particularly ever wanted to follow him in his footsteps. And I think I was always sort of more heavily kind of drawn to the arts and down that route, really. So the Indiana Jones lifestyle that he once led flying small planes in Africa, that didn't appeal? Not really. Although, you know, gosh, I did grow up on stories about it. I'm sure. He had a romance. And, you know, when I first went in my year between school and university, I did go to Africa and did, you know, he really wanted me to see it in the way that he had to a certain extent and kind of borrowed a car for me.

3:27And I had to drive this sort of battered Jeep around with friends while everybody else was sort of getting on buses. I was driving this battered Jeep from place to place and sort of finding myself broken down in front of an elephant. But the stories that you had to tell. Exactly. It was definitely sort of character building stuff. And I'm very glad I'd never send anybody else off on the same trip. But I'm really glad I did it. And we should talk a little bit about your family's heritage and the whole title issue. And we should explain that to our listeners as well, just so that they fully understand the context of your family background and heritage.

4:15So tell me about that. Gosh, well, I mean, I don't know how relevant it is in a way to my life today. I think you wish it was more relevant, right? Well, yes, I suppose in some ways, because my father has a title. He is the 11th Viscount Torrington, and I'm one of three girls, so we will not inherit this title. And it will go to somebody who we haven't actually met and who doesn't live in the UK. so that is a sadness because it is a sort of dying out of a family sort of line i suppose and he in fact inherited a house quite a big house in kent beautiful house when he was one year old but his grandfather and father died at the same time just during the war and there were double death duties so it was sold so it really is the sort of end of any kind of of that family in a way with um well it's not obviously we all carry on but our name won't carry on i'm keeping then sticking to the name Bing but beyond that well and growing up did you did you have much of a sense of this of this history and and of the of the family's position or only I mean my father was pretty active in the house of lords growing up you know he got his title I think he was 18 or something so he was young and we we had a party there in fact my sister had her wedding reception in the House of Lords.

5:44So there was that element of it. And we have lots of portraits of previous like Ant Torrington's. Well, and did your father ever sit you down or have a talk with you about, listen, I'm so sorry, the way that Britain is structured, this isn't going to come to you? Or did you all just always know that that was never? I think we always knew. And I knew that he sort of quietly minded about it. He was sad. He was sad about it. I don't think he wanted a false child, I think. Or, you know, he didn't want to carry on having children just to have a boy. Just to roll the dice and see if we get an heir. Yeah, he didn't mind about it as much as that.

6:28But I suppose when it came, that was why, when it came, when I got the sort of opportunity to campaign for the right to inherit the title, I felt I should go for it. And I felt as a woman, it was rather pathetic not to go for it in this day and age when I'm as educated as any brother. I, you know, and I have, you know, I hold down a job and I didn't feel that I think in this day and age, it's completely outdated. So knowing that you weren't going to the House of Lords, instead, it seems like you pursued, as you said earlier, You're an education in architectural history and art history. Yes. Tell me a little bit about that.

7:14It's always been a sort of fascination, I suppose. And my mother used to drop me off in the school holidays with the person who had made her curtains. And I'd help her with all her fabrics and her fabric samples. And then she'd send me home with her magazines. So, you know, it's been a real interest. And that developed. So I then obviously read History of Art at University at Edinburgh. and then I did a master's in architectural history at the Courtauld. Got a job with Joanna Wood, the interior designer who was then based on Pimlico Road, which was an extraordinary training. So, yeah. And what happened that you didn't continue to pursue being an interior designer?

7:53Well, so I suddenly had kind of uncoreer related, had this burning desire to go and live somewhere abroad and sort of make a life for myself and put myself to the challenge. um not necessarily think it was a career opportunity but took myself off to south africa where my as my father has a south african passport and i had could apply for my south african passport and work there and i got a very lowly job working for house and garden there i mean i was literally ordering film for photo shoots to begin with someone's got to order the film someone's got it right exactly yes it was a really good learning curve so but when I got there then suddenly because I knew about the subject and I perhaps had a wider perspective than some of the people who'd only ever lived and worked in Cape Town I was quickly writing things and I and you know two years there and I had done a huge I'd written a huge amount been on shoots with photographers um and so yeah Yeah.

8:52So when I decided then to come back, I had this portfolio of work to my name and it had been a really good training. And I didn't come back thinking, gosh, I've got to get a job in magazines, but it had set me down a very good path. So correct me if I'm wrong. We're coming up on the 10th anniversary of you being in your current role. Yes. So I started my role in October 2014. But yes, my anniversary, my first issue was February 2015, which will be on the newsstands at the beginning of January. And how is it that you were offered the editor position? Well, so I had already worked at House and Garden for eight years and worked really closely with the editor.

9:41and to begin with I thought gosh perhaps I when she rang me up and said I'm retiring I sort of sat with it for a bit I even told my husband I'm not I'm not going for it not because I didn't necessarily want to but because I had one child I couldn't you know she didn't have any children couldn't see how and I knew I wanted more children but then I sat with that for a couple of weeks and I just or not even and I just felt so uncomfortable about it and then decided to go for it. And it was a really sort of exciting time and sort of then thinking about, you know, what I wanted to do with the magazine.

10:16At that point, really, all I was asked about was the magazine. That was what they cared about. And it was, and, you know, I had quite a few interviews talking about the magazine. And, you know, in the last interview, he sent me away to come back with the four things, you know, he wanted me to write down the four things I was going to do. So it was very specific. But gosh, what an opportunity. Well, I was very lucky. Of course, what an interesting opportunity. And so who was it that you were interviewing with at the time? Who was at the time? It was Nicholas Coleridge. Okay. Yeah, who was then the head of Condé Nast here and Condé Nast Europe.

10:53Right. Okay. Yeah. And so he said to you, come back with four big ideas for what you yes i mean not necessarily big ideas he was very hot on the idea that i mustn't come in and kind of make too many changes make too many changes he felt that was totally the wrong way to go about it was a successful magazine with a loyal readership and i needed to kind of slowly think about what i wanted to do which is what we did i suppose and you're about to ask me i know what four things i can and i now can't remember for the life of me I won't ask you to remember, but I am curious. Don't worry. I'm not going to put you on the spot like that.

11:33Yes, rattle those off, will you, from all those years ago? And what were you having for dinner that night? I'm also going to ask you that question, too. I want to recall the exact menu. But I am curious because, of course, you're so right that with magazines, especially because of the long lead times and all change happens slowly and incrementally and right nothing is nothing is done overnight and you're always you're always very conscious of the reader and not wanting to disrupt and yeah right and one never has an absolute understanding of what part of the magazine readers love the most or right i mean you think you get a sense and you're always trying to write and create the magazine for this reader, but you never know what's going to disrupt or upset.

12:23So I understand slow change. What I'm interested about, besides the four things, is what were you eager to express yourself over the years when you thought about taking on the role? Did you imagine, oh, if I get this job, I'm going to be able to say this or to cover this in a way that we're not doing before. I wonder, was there something you were aching to do and thought you'd be able to do over the years at the magazine? I mean, Sue was the most brilliant editor, and I learned so much under her, and I was really lucky to work under her. And it was, you know, at that stage, it really was about crafting every page.

13:04And I think it was more, you know, it was probably time for a bit of a refresh. You know, she had been thinking for the last few years, and I think, you know, that she was going to retire. they probably hadn't so I think there was that we definitely set out to um take it forward was really what we were looking to do and we always used to have a house that she called ladies taste and I think that was the sort of safe house and I think we have less of those we certainly have accessible you know they can be accessible in a certain way but I I think I'm probably a little bit less worried about satisfying that need.

13:41And that's just times have changed a bit, I suppose. When you think about good design and celebrating and trying to put forth good design, what does that mean to you? And how do you think about the projects that you select through that that lens? So within an issue, say we have four houses, we're looking for different points of views, different types of houses, different scales of projects, different budgets, different styles, you know, that's how we put together an issue. And it's all about the balance, I suppose. I often feel I've got to want to live in one of them. But there might be three houses that I probably don't want to live in, but I totally get what they're doing and admire them.

14:31And it may be because they're a bit too brave for me. I mean, you know, but I like that bravery. I'm excited by that bravery. And I hope there will be people who are too kind of thing. So speaking of the bravery, one of the criticisms in the Instagram algorithm-driven world that we suddenly find ourselves in is that so many projects are feeling repetitive or lookalike, right? And there's a safety in selecting that certain sofa that we all know, right? And so you put that in your project and you know it's going to do well. Are you looking for people who are taking more of a risk and shaking things up a little bit more?

15:15How do you think about that? Absolutely. And I think we are absolutely looking for that sort of different way of thinking, the originality. People don't need to live in an original house necessarily, but what we're showing to people needs to say something a bit different. It can't be what we're being fed through Instagram. I was embarrassed when we showed our house in the magazine and suddenly there we've got a scallop lampshade on the front cover. But I'm hoping that the scallop lampshade is sort of slightly out of context for the other times that you see that scallop lampshade and hopefully it's all right.

15:50So the December issue shows your husband's family home and where his mother grew up and right and how did that feel for you showing that house and and how did how did poor Charlie feel about the whole thing? Yeah I mean he's he loves that house as I think I wrote in the article he absolutely loves it and he loves everything about it and was so excited about the project so he's very proud of it I mean I think I'm more nervous about it in some ways because I feel um the scrutiny and the scrutiny of all the things like when weird projects come into us and we're saying oh gosh we've seen that again and oh what a horrid rug I'm thinking people are looking at our house like that you know some of the things we've always had some things Charlie bought without me I might not have chosen them it was really a collaborative project so it's not in any way a sort of perfect vision.

16:44But I think that's all right, too. And that's what we're showing as something that we love living there. I think we've created some lovely rooms, even if each individual thing is not necessarily what I love. You know, if you focus in on something, there might be a few things in there I really don't like. Well, and I feel, and you tell me, but it seems like in the UK, especially, there's a lot of history in both the home and the interior that one doesn't necessarily want to fully disturb. Yeah, I think so. I think it's really important to keep onto those memories and to have the layers of memory and storytelling that different things add to a room and make it feel personal and to have the things that aren't necessarily the most beautiful thing, but they have resonance to you.

17:39I think, you know, I still get great pleasure from some of the first pictures I bought as a student and hung in my Edinburgh flat. You and I have talked about the fact that so many American designers love your magazine. Literally, I was sitting next to one of my colleagues last night at the BOH holiday party, and our founder was going on. I told her I was to you. And she said, Oh, my God, it's my favorite magazine. And I just like the the projects that you show, she said, they just seem like they're lived in like they are, they have a they have a warmth they have, but they're also they're beautifully decorated, of course, but it isn't all brand new or of the moment necessarily.

18:26And that seems part of what you're delivering. absolutely and I think it is really important to us and we often when um designers bring us projects say could we wait a year and so there's a bit more layering of life in there or could we reshoot because they've obviously taken out the layers of life because they don't you know and we we want to I suppose show houses that feel believable and I'm trying to think why that is why we need it I I mean, you aren't asking me what the difference was, though. Were you between American and British, or are you asking? Well, we can certainly talk about that.

19:05How do you describe what you see as the difference? I think it is partly that in America, people, they have bigger houses. They probably have more money, earn more money, have more money to spend. And I really see the value of an interior designer and having their house designed by somebody. So it really kind of works. And if they're spending a lot of money on fabrics, that the curtains are well made and made to the right design. I think people perhaps want a higher level of finish and polish than we perhaps. I think we might be scruffier, a bit scruff, or happy, content with a bit of scruffiness.

19:47Content with a bit of scruffiness, exactly, yes. Yeah. And I think that is a bit the difference. I also think we British people are more used to getting on with it themselves. And I think there is a frugality. We don't always want to be seen to be spending money or feel embarrassed spending money or until quite recently anyway. I think that's changing. But I think whereas in the US, it's quite acceptable to spend money on your house in that way.

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21:08It's interesting, as you were just suggesting, that historically, the British have seemed more reluctant to both show their homes in general, right? And there isn't that sort of ostentatious or wanting to show off sort of mentality. And also, there hasn't been a priority placed on hiring an interior decorator. That just wasn't done as much. For us, it really was more the really grand houses. And it has only been more recently, more people are employing interior designers. And I think, you know, people now really do see the value in it. That over the last couple of decades, people's interest in good design and living stylishly has grown enormously here, really.

21:57And what do we attribute that to? I think perhaps we have been influenced, like everything by the US to a degree, whether it's Halloween or how we do up our houses. I think that has been a huge influence. I also think COVID had a huge impact on how we look at our houses, and we know that. And I also think obviously with Instagram and social media, that has also hugely influenced people's attitude to their houses because they're being fed so much more about it, aren't they? Tell me how you're thinking about taking the publication and spreading it out onto all these different platforms today. the print magazine is still absolutely the cornerstone of what we do and but then we can use social media to amplify those stories to add to those stories to reach more people to tell more stories i mean we now shoot probably more houses that go up on straight up onto digital up onto the website than go into print just because it's a hungry beast that needs feeding and then we can also tell it on fit with video and our design notes isn't it series has been so amazingly successful and reached all corners of the earth really and and that's what's been so satisfying for us and you know our biggest audience from the work for the website is 25 to 34 year olds, then it's 34 to 45 year olds.

23:32So, you know, we're reaching a whole new audience through our website and our social media. And it has an immediacy that we just can't have imprint. Well, so what's what's missing from your covers and so much of your coverage, Hada, is where the heck are all the big celebrities? Where are all those celebrity home projects? I thought that That was what you needed to drive magazine sales. Is that not true? I don't think it's just not what we're about. Where we feature a house owned by somebody famous, we probably don't even say that. We don't even tell you who it is. Yeah. And even where there are people, I mean, I was looking at the Via Grenny story that's in the current AD and thinking, gosh, I would have loved to have published that.

24:20But actually, even for those, the owners of that house, they probably wanted to show themselves off. And actually, we wouldn't really, because that's not what we're about. We might have a picture, include a picture of them, but we wouldn't. We certainly wouldn't have them on the front cover. I think the other thing is that most celebrities in this country just do not want to show their houses as much as we'd love to be able to show, feature some of them. They don't want it. So that's another thing. We have got Richard E. Grant, actually. We've got his house in the current issue. But that's the funny thing.

24:54So, yes, and you, of course, you'll have celebrity homes. But as you say, it's not immediately going on the cover and you're not showing the people and you're not. Right. And I'm wondering what's different about the economics and the independence that you have that you don't need to do that. Or do the British tabloids cover the famous people and the shelter magazines don't have to? I mean, we do. I mean, it's depressing that sometimes you put a story about Meghan and Harry's house. That does always, and every time they're in the press again, the story gets more traffic. So there is inevitably some of that.

25:38But we don't need it for what we're doing and what we're trying to do. And, you know, people really want here in this country really want to advertise in it. And so it's a strong magazine without doing that. And then I think the way we've crafted our website and our social media, people are just hungry for those beautiful images and the expert advice. That's what they're coming to us for. So I think we're just built around a different way of doing things. And we've just stuck to what we do and celebrating this wonderful world of design and all its richness and its depth. And it's done well for us.

26:19So we've just, you know, it's just different. And I suppose they're a much bigger, you know, US is a much bigger kind of country, the distribution, the way things work. It's just, it is just different. We had a guest on the show recently, Dan Rosen, who is somewhat a comedian, somewhat a critic, and he does wonderful videos of home tours and pokes a little bit of fun at things. And people enjoy hearing people making a little bit of fun sometimes of some of the projects that are held up and celebrated. I wonder in Britain, is there much design criticism or are there some strong voices that are telling you what good design really means?

27:08And that's so much of what is central to how you're thinking about the magazine. but you're not necessarily saying this is good this is bad and here's why no i mean i think it's very difficult to feature something bad and so i don't think we have room to feature the sort of thing that hasn't worked in a way so some of our criticism comes in just saying no to something or leaving it out it's not in there that is our criticism right um and and then we are very much kind of pointing out why something does work but I also think we're you know things like our do's and don'ts of decorating you know Carlos Garcia I was thinking he'll say um don't have an over oversized headboard I was just looking at a house that's come in from a designer the first thing the picture we looked at had an oversized headboard that is perhaps goes goes along with the scallop lampshades.

28:02And, you know, so there are ways of doing it without kind of hurting people. I think one has to be a bit careful of criticising when it's somebody's home. I think that's really difficult to do. I also think criticism could look snobby. I mean, what's wrong with having an oversized headboard if you really want one? So I think we can gently point out that maybe things have moved on. But I think interior design criticism of people's homes is, you have to be a bit careful about right at the end, I think. No, no, understandably. And that's the challenge, I think, sometimes with the celebrity coverage is that the projects are being held up and we know in our heart of hearts that it's not great work or that it's not great design, but it's attached to somebody that's going to bring a lot of audience.

28:50So again, we get that, we understand that trade-off. It seems that – and you mentioned that the advertisers want to be in a print publication and that still works in a way that it wasn't working as well in the U.S. and that was part of what had to change. And I'm curious, looking back over your 10-year tenure now at the magazine, what feels like it has changed the most or what feels like it's very different from how you work or the kinds of things that you were showing or doing from 10 years ago? I mean, I suppose what's changed most of all is that we are now, I'm no longer just the editor of a magazine, or not just, but I'm no longer the editor of the magazine.

29:37I'm a curator of a brand in however which way that's manifesting itself. You know, we're looking at sort of licensing deals and whether it feels right for us, how involved we could get, whether we believe in them, whether, you know, whether it's worth putting the effort in for the return. So I think we are, I am having to think more commercially in that way. and I think what's also changed is just the volume of our output in that while the print is still so highly crafted and you know I see it in each page of many different iterations you know digitally it's such a hungry beast I can't possibly read everything so I think that is what has changed and also therefore we we cover many more types of content online than we would do in print and there's much more room for kind of the how-tos and the advice than we have in print where yes we have some of that but not nearly to the extent of that actually also what has become in the last 10 years what has got bigger is we do a lot more travel content and that has been kind of really good for us people always we've always been told that when we feature a story people book it so that's we've you know we have power so that's been that's been good for us the other thing is obviously that we now have kind of need to make more of certain moments in our year and before I took over house and garden our top 100 list we did every three years it was a big thing but it wasn't what it is today now we through the course we have our top 25 rising stars our 50 garden designers um we have awards and it's a huge amount of work but it's also really rewarding in that we really are I feel like we really are sort of championing the stars of the today and those of tomorrow really um and I love the fact that the people who feature on our 25 rising stars really get noticed.

31:50And whoever I talk to, they get drops out of it. You know, people say it's like a light bulb turning on. It's so, I love the fact that we're making the most of what we've got and our, I suppose, our authority and our power to give a platform to these people and then celebrate the real stars.

32:12We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Lalloy, whose newest introductions for all styles included new collections from collaborators Amber Lewis, Magnolia Home by Joanna Gaines, and Rifle Paper Company, plus newly added one-of-a-kind rugs, pillows, and wall art. Visit lalloyrugs.com to see them all. That's L-O-L-O-I rugs.com and at lalloyrugs on Instagram and TikTok. And now, back to the show.