How Ashley Montgomery survived a stressful split and came out stronger

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is the Toronto-based interior designer Ashley Montgomery. Born into a family of home builders, Ashley knew what she wanted to do from a young age. After cutting her teeth in the industry, she launched her own firm in 2014, which exploded in popularity during the COVID home boom. Ashley's work has been published in top shelter magazines, and she's inked a deal with Rizzoli for her first book. Recently, she and her husband and business partner divorced, leading to a challenging time both personally and professionally.

0:53But now that the dust has settled, Ashley's opening up about how it has made her stronger and what lessons she's learned along the way. Much of our conversation covers that ground. I spoke with Ashley about the difference between Canadian and American clients, why she doesn't regret not charging a markup early on in her career, and how she came to fall in love with the business side of her firm.

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2:14If you're a pro, you're going to want to know about Blue Dot's newly updated trade program. Members receive 20 % off every order every day. You get a dedicated trade concierge, aka a real human being, who can assist you with product info, samples, ordering, and fulfillment. You'll also get early access to new designs and special finishes reserved just for the trade. There's even more, so head over to bluedot.com to learn all about it. That's bluedot.com. And now, on with the show. Normally, I try to ease into this a little bit, but I just felt like this seemed, I don't want to say this is the elephant in the room, Ashley, but this is.

3:04So, Eric, business partner, thought-to-be-life partner, right? All of that. And now, let's get an update. Let's hear what's going on. Yeah. So, I mean, got married, had our first child. Life was great. I had this interior design company that was small and out of our basement at the time, but there was potential there and it was growing. And that's when I had decided to get my first studio space and kind of jump in. And it was right before COVID and he was kind of in between jobs. So obviously our thought was, well, if we could work together, how great is that? Great. Great. Great in theory. And it was good in the beginning.

3:48and he brought a lot of business sense into this business that I didn't have at that time. I was good at designing. I wasn't great at running a business. In my mind, I thought I was going to be like a semi-stay-at-home mom. That's kind of what I envisioned growing up. I didn't kind of envision this life of a career woman. So business started to pick up. And I mean, COVID was that big boom. We had our second kid. There was even more of a juggle. But motherhood, I think, is one of the things that taught me how much you can do. And all of a sudden, I felt this new kind of wave of all of the stuff I could do.

4:29You look at the sleepless nights, and you still get up the next day, and you show up to those days. Look how strong I am. Yeah, look how delusional I am. Look at me. No energy, no sleep, breastfeeding in my car. I used to travel around with pumps, literally pumping in my car in between meetings and bringing my babies to showrooms. And I was like, I can do it all. I'm a mom. I'm a working mom. I can do it. So as the business started to grow, we kind of hit a breaking point where it was almost like a romantic relationship turned into a working relationship. And I think that's something we lost sight of very quickly.

5:11And then it became where I was kind of outgrowing his part of the business, if that makes sense. So the operational side, I mean, once you set it up and you've got great systems and great operations, it was kind of like, well, he was bored. I'm thriving in terms of designing. And we just kind of had shitty communication between each other. So we decided this isn't working personally. this isn't working. We tried to keep as business partners. And that obviously was a pipe dream. Like, we'll go through a personal divorce, but we'll stay business partners. We'll separate, but we'll be great partners running the operation.

5:53Sure. I can see you wanting to try. Right? We'll give it a shot. Obviously, personal messes into business. Business messes into personal. So needless to say, through this whole thing, I learned a lot of lessons. So obviously he was my husband. There's a big trust in what he's doing and how things are done in the books and everything like that. And he didn't do anything wrong, but I didn't know that side of my business. I had no idea. I was just like, sure, no problem. I do this. You do that. Well, you need to know the ins and outs of your business. You need to know how what's going on from A to Z and what's happening day to day.

6:37I knew what was happening with my design team, but I didn't know what was happening in terms of money coming in, money going out, who's owing invoices, who hasn't been sent invoices, what are we investing in, what are we not investing in, all of that stuff. So that's something that I've really learned. And that's taken me the better part of a year and a half to kind of get myself back up to that, which is, I feel in such a better space now, having full visibility of what this business is start to finish. Which is a tremendous relief, first of all, I'm sure, to better understand your business. And it sounds as though one of the lessons that you learned is I don't ever want to be away from the business side of the operation again.

7:21Yes. Yeah, I do enjoy it. Now that I understand it. I enjoy the business operations of it. I don't find it as terrifying. I mean, I was a girl that like, you put a balance sheet in front of me and like my eyes glaze over. Like that is not, you can put me right to sleep with an accounting document. Like that is not what I, I like scroll to the bottom. I'm like, so how did we get here? Tell me more about this number. So now understanding the ins and outs of everything, it's, it helps me run this business. And I mean, at the end of the day, as much as I love designing, it's still a business. And I have to make sure that it's running functionally really well and putting the right people in the place to do that, but still having control over them and the decisions that are made has been really rewarding.

8:09Well, I'm very sorry for whatever happened in the - No, don't be sorry. Okay. And that's when people are like, oh, you guys separated, you're divorced, I'm so sorry. It is not a sorry situation. It's everybody's happier. Everybody's thriving. It's the kids are happy. I'm happy. He's happy. We've moved on. And it's just like, it's not what you plan for. And trust me, there's many days of therapy that I had to go through to understand, like, this is not a bad thing. Right. This is actually a good thing for you. So it's even to be able to learn how to say the word divorce or separated or ex-business partner.

8:49That was a learning curve in itself. But I've learned never go into business with somebody 50-50. That was our biggest problem. Oh, so tell me about that. Well, we were 50-50 owners of the business, which means you're basically in a standstill on any decision when it came to the legal side of it. So it was like, well, I can't do anything, and he can't do anything. So that was the biggest thing is 51-49 every single day, never, ever, ever put your name down 50-50. You'll never give up that control again, Ashley. Never, ever. And it's funny. I've talked to a few others in the industry that are going through those growing pains and separating from their other parts of their businesses.

9:32And it's tough when you're a creative and you have that creative sense and you're building this side creatively, and you have somebody who's running the operational side of it, it starts, obviously, the creative, their name, their face, they're the ones who are getting the accolades for the work. And whoever's running that operational side has to be okay with that because the people want to lift up and see the designer work because that's what's presented to the world. That's what people see. But the business needs that operational side to function. So it's one of those like, well, you can't get the proper clients if you're not operating functionally with your business.

10:10but at the same time, you're not going to sign new clients if you don't have beautiful design. They both go hand in hand. And sometimes, I mean, I'm guilty for it being like, well, I can do this all by myself. I don't need you. I'm the designer. I'm the one who makes it beautiful. That's why people come here. Yes, but they also want to make sure that their money's being allocated properly. Invoices are being sent out. Operational-wise, they put a lot of money entrusted to you. So it does have an equal balance. Of course. And so is that what led to some of the friction or tension? Was that? Yeah.

10:47It's very hard. I think sometimes when you, I mean, I started this company long before I even met him, before we got married, before we had kids. So there was a part of me that like, this was my first baby. And when it got to a point where we were butting heads on directional design and logo design and branding design and what I was doing with my time and who we were hiring, it was not a good thing. I felt very kind of like this wasn't mine anymore. And I fought so hard for so many years to keep it. You know, having kids while growing this business meant I didn't get a mat leave. I didn't get to stay home and be that stay-at-home mom.

11:29And that was a decision I had to make because I knew if I did that for a year and I hit the pause button on growing, it's going to be twice as hard to catch up once I am there. So it's like I wanted to keep building this business. And it's like an addiction. Once you start and you start this snowball of creativity, you want to see it come to fruition. And I still feel that way. I still wake up every morning and love what I do. And I wanted to make sure that I was making the calls and the decisions. And with our partnership at the time, that wasn't the way it was going to go. Let's take a step back at this point, and let's explain how you got into the business and when you started the business on your own, and then we can come back and talk about Eric joining the firm and all of that.

12:21So in your youth, so a lot of people in your family were in and around the design space, right? Grandparents. Yeah, my grandfather was a, he was a builder. I mean, he started in concrete. He built apartment buildings. He was an Italian immigrant. That was his move to Toronto when he was very, very young. His family was in construction. So he became a house builder, a home builder as the years went on. And then my parents have always built their own homes, renovated their own homes. So I remember walking through job sites as a kid and always kind of being around it. And I loved watching HGTV as a child.

13:00And Candace Olson was like my dream celebrity. I would rather have a Candace Olson poster on my wall than like Britney Spears. So that's how I ended up here. And when I went to design school after university, I wasn't sure what element of design I wanted to be in. And at that time, many, many moons ago, there wasn't a great understanding of what interior designers did. It was kind of like, oh, well, you could be a decorator, which is great. But I like the construction side of it. I like seeing things, walking into a space and envisioning what that space could be. And after design school, I went and worked at an architectural firm in Toronto.

13:43Great experience. realized that is not what I want to do. Quickly, quickly realized that is not where I want to be. I realized I was going to be stuck at a desk on CAD for 40 plus hours a week. And it was like, no. And it was a very old school, like, well, you put in your time and eventually you'll be an intermediate designer and a senior designer. But still, you're never the one making the decisions. And I wanted to make decisions. I wanted to see my visions come to life. So from there, I went and worked at a small firm where I thought maybe I would get that opportunity. That was one of those big learning lessons of this is how not to run a business.

14:24Well, now you've said that to me before. This is what I learned, not how to run a business. What was going on at this small firm? Oh, it was just a hot mess. It was a bouquet of red flags when I showed up, and I should have just listened to myself. But I didn't. I was like, okay, well, maybe this is what it is. And it was a one-woman show, and we worked at her kitchen island. And I just remember one day she had these pillows, and she's like, I need you to go return these. And I was like, well, you've had them for like three months. Like this little boutique is not going to take them back. And she's like, oh, no, you're going in there and taking them back.

15:00And I remember walking in with these pillows in my arms, and the shop owner looked at me and goes, oh, hell no, honey. And I was like, I'm not doing this. And I just turned around, act and walked away. And I was like, you know what? This isn't, this is not what I've dreamed of. So I was in my mid twenties. I was lost and confused and questioning every decision I've made. And I ended up working, a friend of mine from design school was working in this boutique in downtown Toronto called Atelier, which was in the Summerhill Design District at the time. And he's like, why don't you come work for us?

15:38We need, we need a girl. We've just got all mails on staff and it would be so fun and I think you'd love it. So I was like, fine, I'll go work in a retail store. I worked at American Eagle in high school. I can do this all over again. You know, sales is great. So I did. And the owner of that store, he was a mastermind in terms of styling and vintage and finding these pieces and the way that he would layer them. And his store was one of those stores where like you kept your elbows in because you were worried if you turned around, you're going to knock something over. And it was just overflowing with beauty somehow.

16:17And he had such an eye. And that's where I was like, okay, I'm falling back in love with all of this again. And the appreciation of beauty and being in that retail side. So not only did he have vintage, but he also would go to High Point and all the big markets and he would buy from suppliers. So I learned the whole furniture supplier side in that era. which was fantastic. So that kind of opened my eyes to a whole nother category as well. And when I was working there, the store manager was like, you have so much potential. Why don't you just, when a client comes in and they want to hire somebody for a consultation, take it.

16:57I was like, I don't know. So one day this woman came in. She's like, can I just hire somebody to come to my house and give me some advice? And he's like, yeah, Ashley will do that. She's like, how much do you charge an hour? And at the time I said$125. And I thought that was insane amount of money. You thought that was all the money. I thought that was all the money. I was like, there's no way this lady is going to say yes to this. And she's like, no problem. And I was like, what? So, and that's how it started. And I was like, oh, okay. I was used to making minimum wage at the time. I think it was$10 and 75 cents.

17:34So it was mind blowing. So, and that's how it started. And I just kept going and going and I hustled and I schlopped and I did the condos and the apartments and I went to Ikea and I built furniture myself and I painted walls myself and I did all the things because I thought that's what you do. Yeah. And it was great. I mean, I was living downtown Toronto. Life was fantastic. And I just started growing. And then I got to the point where I was ready to take on my first employee. And at this point I had gotten married and I was like, you know what? I need help. I need somebody else to help me with this.

18:11Got my first employee, working out of my basement with all of my little vintage finds all around me and I had had my first child, my son Aiden, and I realized, okay, I need to make this separation between motherhood and working life because if I'm at home with him, even if I have a nanny or a babysitter and they're on the main floor and I'm working out of the basement, my ears don't turn off. My head doesn't turn off thinking about him. I need a separation. I need to get dressed. I need to leave this house. I need to get out. So for my own mental health, it was like having a baby is a big life change.

18:52And I don't think anyone really prepares you for that. So we were, I was out with him for a walk one day, pushing the stroller. And there was a for lease sign in this kind of warehouse-y looking building and the leasing agent was there and I signed the lease right then and there and I was like well sink or swim like I'll make it work look at you I'm a big believer if you throw something out of the universe you're going to get it back and sometimes it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel it's hard to see what what is it all for but then these little glimmers come in and you're like that was it that was it and getting my first studio space, man, did that change my world.

19:32It absolutely rocked it because it added this validity to who I was and what I did. And it was like, oh, wow, she has an office now. She has a studio. She must be killing it. She must have all these clients. She's doing so well. Look at her, right? That's the perception. Yeah. And to be able to say to a client, like, why don't you come to the studio for a meeting? Why don't you come in? We'll have a consultation. Big change rather than, you know, Sometimes it's worth going to their place in the beginning, but a lot better than saying, hey, do you want to meet in this coffee shop? Do you want to meet?

20:06Like this all of a sudden was like, oh, and we can go through samples and we can have a coffee together and relax. And you can see what my studio looks like because it's really a representation of what we do. And that was a big thing. How long did it take you to transform that space into the look and feel that you wanted to represent you to your point? It wasn't that long. So I just transformed it with my antique pieces. The one piece that I did buy that I absolutely loved was this 19th century mercantile cabinet that had all of these big drawers. So it was like a shop cabinet. And that's where my entire sample library was.

20:42And that was like, she was my bread and butter. That piece was stunning. I loved that thing. Clients said, ooh, look at that. Literally every time someone walked in, they'd be like, this is stunning. And I'm like, I know. Well, so suddenly you were on your way. I was on my way. And I felt like nothing could stop me. And then COVID hit. And COVID, what a time. So obviously the world shut down. And there was a big question mark for a couple weeks. And then the world decided they really wanted beautiful homes. And it was like, okay. During this time, lockdown after lockdown, and we had a young kid.

21:24I was pregnant. My family lives outside of the city. So we were spending a lot of time up there. House prices in Toronto were going wild. So we found a place up outside of the city on the lake and we decided to make the move. I grew up on the water. It's something that's been inside of me forever. I love the peacefulness up here. Stumbled upon this place. It was beautiful. It was a stunning home. Sold it during the divorce. started a new chapter. Got it. Okay. But it was a home that I absolutely loved. And I loved transforming that from what that house was to what it is now. So, I mean, did I have a lot on my plate when our lives took a different direction?

22:07100%. We were renovating. We had basically finished renovating, but we were doing a smaller addition onto the house. So there was the stress of that, the stress of the business. Two kids, 20 months apart. There was a lot. And we just broke. It all became too much. And we realized we had changed as people. What we thought we wanted in our lives were very different. I loved work. And finding that balance of motherhood and running a business is a tough balance to find. And I know we talked a little while ago about what's your definition of success. And that has really resonated with me is my definition of success is being able to run a business and be a mom and being there for my kids when they need me and having that time with them and making sure that I don't miss those little moments.

22:56I want to be there for all those little moments.

23:02We're taking a quick break to talk about Blue Dot's new trade program. Designers receive exclusive finishes, early access to product launches and a 20 % discount on every order. No minimums required. A dedicated trade concierge is there to help with quotes, samples, and getting things done right. It's smart, modern support for how you really work. Learn more at bluedot.com. That's B-L-U-D-O-T dot com. And now, back to the show.

23:39so you mentioned with with eric so he comes in he puts some structure around all of this he creates some some systems and you were happy to have that in someone else's hands and and to not right yeah um then the two of you start to go through the tension and and and the friction and you realize that you have to get much more involved in the business side and this is in the past couple of years, I'm taking it. Yeah. Yeah. It's still, it's still, I mean, we signed the papers. Like I ended up buying him out of the business last December. So we're coming up on a year. So it was, I started traveling for work.

24:19I started, which I see it both ways from a spouse's side or a partner's side. Oh, you're, you're going on another vacation. It's not a vacation. It's a lot of work. You know, when you travel and you're sleeping in hotels and And you're eating out and it sounds and looks glamorous, but it's exhausting. So there was a bit of resentment there on both sides. I was burning the candle at both ends and trying to keep up that family life at the same time while also feeling like I was killing myself taking red-eye flights and going here and there. And it was a lot. And that's kind of where the resentment started, I feel like.

24:59It was the bigger the business got, the more resentment there was. But then he started to get bored. And I think there was more resentment there. And he started to get into kind of, well, why don't I start helping with logo design and creative things? And well, I can look at floor plans. And he wanted to travel. He wanted to go out and meet these clients and do the glamorous thing. It didn't make sense. Why? So we tried that, but it was kind of like, okay, well, that was a waste of a visit. Now I have to go back. um so there was when he started kind of crossing that border into the creative side it just did not go well feedback creative feedback coming from one creative to another that didn't go well so it was kind of like well no that I don't like that well taking criticism from me wasn't exactly his favorite thing so therapy should have probably started a lot sooner There were some really challenging conversations going on, it sounds like.

26:04There were. There were. And the difficult part was that those conversations didn't end in this office. And that's the hardest part is when you're a husband and wife working together, you've got to set those boundaries of what happens at work stays at work and what happens at home stays at home. But it was like when we got home, our conversations were about work and we kind of lost who we were as a romantic couple. It became business partners. Everything was about business. Everything was talking about business and work and staff. And it just became too much. So past few years, you've been working through this, wrap things up at the end of last year.

26:41Your business has been growing a lot. And you're becoming very well known in the States and very desired outside of Canada. And we'll talk about that. But in thinking now about how you've decided you want to charge now that, as you say, you've found a greater confidence, it sounds like, going through this whole process. How have you now structured your business? How do you now work with people? We talked about hourly or markups or all that. Where have you landed? So I realized quite quickly I needed to get my operations back in place. So basically taking that role that Eric had done, and we had a great bookkeeping team at the time that supported payroll and accounts receivable and accounts payable and all that kind of stuff, because as he was transitioning out of the business, and I mean, things are pretty volatile for a while where like we were not on speaking terms, which made life very difficult while also running a business.