How Baker's history is informing the future of the brand

27:52But I wonder what you heard when you spoke to designers and if there were any particular conversations that especially resonated with you. What you're pointing to is really just part of it in my mind is a very simple concept. Listen to your customer. You know, paying accolades is great. Right. But go ahead and tell me what we're doing wrong or tell me what the other parts of the industry are doing better and let us know that because as we're trying to navigate this space and time, we really need to pay attention to what they think we're doing or in that case not doing. Some of the things that they had expressed would be just in our upholstery.

28:36Like we weren't comfortable. There was a period of time where just things weren't really in their mind comfortable. And then they always dovetailed that, if I could use a furniture term, but they always dovetailed that back with Baker was synonymous with comfort. Baker was just known that it was a very comfortable upholstery line. And so we've made a huge effort bringing out product, I would say, especially just in this last April market where we made the statement to everybody. When you look at something, an upholstered piece of furniture, you look at it and think, OK, is that going to be a sit on it or a sit in it?

29:13And that it should be comfortable that they should be able to describe the sit even with other samples that they might have and that it's going to sit very much, you know, very much like this piece that they have. And I believe that's a confidence level that has to be rebuilt, that people have to have that space that they look at Baker and they go, they build it exceptionally. And I'm confident that the way I know I'm telling you that's going to sit is how it's going to sit for you. So, you know, case goods wise, you know, we were, we were also, you know, told that we were a little bit out on the fringe and that we didn't have those cases, those pieces that are, you know, even today still really great pieces of furniture that are extremely relevant.

29:55I mean, that's the really cool thing about design is that well done or well executed or well thought of or thoughtful product lasts a long time. It becomes something that is just relevant for decades. And we kind of got rid of a lot of that. And so just trying to bring back some of those things that our customers are telling us that if you had that, we would sell that. Yes. And that's what I'm curious about. And that, I think, was certainly my perception that a lot of the, I don't want to call them the classics, but a lot of the things that made Baker and McGuire, in my mind, the brands that they were, apropos of the earlier conversation about sort of getting away from the heritage at all costs, I felt like there was a moment in time before you got there where they were sort of running away from the history or running away from the classic designs, feeling compelled to introduce a bunch of new, fresh things.

30:51and maybe try to reinvent something. And it went too far or the pendulum swung too far the other way or whatever it was. But again, I can understand it because I understand the fear of thinking that you're trapped in this heritage brand narrative and the company wanted to try something else. But when you talk to the customers, they're like, no, no, no, come back, please. Because here are the things that I used to buy and here's why. Yeah, hindsight's 20-20, right? It's easy for me to say that. But I think the little bit of it, I don't know that I would have made decisions any differently. I really don't.

31:25I just know that I look at what I think is perceptively the issue that the customers were defining is that there was a little bit too much of the newness and not enough of the relevant kept. Right. There was a, I got the opportunity, I was invited to speak at the Newport Design Week last week. Oh, okay. But one of the speakers had a quote and I wrote it down and I just looked it up, Dennis, because I was like that, that speaks to this moment we're talking about. And that is nothing ages faster than newness. You know, it's, and in the world of the furniture designs and the things we've got, um, those things age fast and meaning that's not a good thing.

32:03Right. Um, you know, and it's just that, that trying to still have that product, those designs, those things that were so well thought of over the last 25, 30 years. There's a lot of them that are extremely relevant today. And for whatever reason, they were taken out of the line and moved on. And that's what the customer's begging for is just some of those things that they know that they could still use in design projects. 1951, Finn Ewell. Well, I mean, we should explain about this Finn Ewell catalog. So interestingly enough, Eric, in going through boxes and discovering parts of the warehouse that maybe the team hasn't seen in a while, discovers a box full of 1951, I guess it was, right?

32:53So this great catalog of a partnership that Baker did with Finn Yule, the great Danish architect and furniture designer. And it's a stunning, I mean, it's a stunning time capsule, but it's also, to me, man, would I be leaning into that catalog and just saying, this is how important Baker is in the history of design. Like here we were putting out this collection with Finn Yule and this guy was working with us. Like this guy partnered with Baker and I think that says something. But I think it also, that great design piece and how timeless really great design is to your point about nothing gets old faster than new, is such an important conversation to try and have about everything that you are trying to do now with Baker, it seems.

33:47Yeah, you're referring to what we call the cage at Baker right now. And that's this basically like a 40 foot by 40 foot chain link fenced off racked space and looking at all this and it's like just jaw dropping. It's all these catalogs and all this marketing material and these signs and carving models. And lo and behold, there's this box that's got this undistributed fin-yule catalogs. And there's all of this product that's in this space. But all of that speaks back to the brand and designs and the heritage and that it's still available for us to dip into and pull some things through. And we've been recently doing that.

34:28And, you know, for us, you know, we're experimenting in a lot of ways of how we even, you know, launch product. You know, we have this need to kind of stay front of mind as much as we possibly can and reintroduce ourselves to customers that have been there with us. And then, you know, reintroduce ourselves to this new customer. So we're developing ways to, if you will, have launches that are not just locked into April and October and High Point. We're going to be launching a collection in October. and then, you know, Jim Druckmann in New York had said, you know, please give me something to talk about that bakery.

35:07You're my longest standing tenant. Is there something you can, you can, you know, something you can launch with me here that we can talk about. Yep. And so I said, Jim, you get your wish. We're going to do that. So what's new, what's next? We're going to have a dining table and a couple of chairs that'll be pre-launched, meaning they'll be seen in New York before they're seen in October. Good for you. Okay. But that is going to be kind of this methodology that we've got, and it won't be just around what's new, what's next. It'll be, you know, we've got an opportunity to launch some items, if you will, or a new collaboration that we're working on possibly in January with Deco Off.

35:45And, you know, we've got partners around the globe that we just have an unbelievable platform to be able to have a voice and use this technology, you know, the social media space and get in front of people and show them what we're, you know, what we're all about and where we're going and talk about the brand. Coming back to this made to order versus inventory model, tell me how you're thinking about that, because that seems to have changed for a lot of the industry. And I'm curious how you're thinking about it. You know, you've got this model of made to stock, made to order, and actually we have the ability to be both.

36:26We can literally, with customer feedback, we can decide the finish that goes on a case before we've got it in the warehouse. And we can do that and have it ready to go. And so that there is an opportunity for, you know, instant gratification, if you will, really fast. But then we can also have the language with them or the conversation with them that says it's made to order, too. If you like that piece, you like the bone structure, but you want to change the skin, tell us what finish you want. And there's a whole host of finishes as well as even changing sheen levels and getting that message out.

37:03So that's kind of that blended made-to-stock, made-to-order world that we're afforded the opportunity to live in. Interesting. I ask about it in part because, and here comes the RH segment of the show, I wasn't surprised, but I'm so curious to watch it unfold. the announcement from Gary Friedman at RH, listen, we realize we haven't been taking care of designers in the way that we should have. We're going to come back to a trade program of sorts and have special discounts for designers. But also, we're going to introduce COM and we're going to make some things that are made to order or maybe some custom things.

37:44and opening that up to what I assume will be the consumer market as well as the designer market. And that sounds super challenging to me. And I would think it's challenging for you at your level, never mind how challenging it is to them. But I wonder when it opens it up to the consumer market and a brand like RH, which does signal so much of what's going on for where taste and design and everything else is going, what it says about where we are in this moment of time, they too recognize they need to go after these designers. They too know that they need that customer. What does it make you think?

38:30And can they pull it off? What do you think, Eric? Well, obviously, they're a successful brand. They've become this definition of a section of the business. There's that world where you're walking around and it's that RH look or that resto look. So rare moments in time do you have a brand that has that kind of draw to it in the industry where people immediately in their head can kind of picture a lifestyle, a perspective, a product line. So obviously Restoration Hardware has been hugely successful in that space on their own. Saying that you're going to do COM and you're going to manage the complexities and you're going to manage all that, it's very difficult.

39:12And a big difference there is they don't really make anything where we make things. and that in itself is, you know, kind of what allows some of the, you know, the brands that are in our space with us, they make things too and you're controlling your own world in that space, you're controlling the complexity because it is very complex and then you're also working with designers that are very specific about what they want and their expectations are super high and they will not, you know, allow you to disappoint their customer and so, you know, saying it and doing it are very difficult. And on their side is, you know, technology.

39:49Technology is what really allows a lot of our, you know, our competitive set to manage all those complexities. So they would obviously have that ability to have the technology to drive that. But I understand that they're wanting to be in that space more so. But, you know, good luck. Well, listen, it's a tough space. And if you go anywhere where designers are talking about this, they'll point to the quality level or they'll point to the other challenges the brand has. And I'm sure the brand must be very well aware of that. It seems to, I'll turn this around, it seems to be an opportunity for you and brands like yours to speak to the quality.

40:34And this is, again, where I think the heritage story and the history story can help you. But I think you and I have also spoken in the past about some of the basic grammar of upholstery and spring edges and down seating and French seams. And we had the great designer Jeffrey Bill Huber on the show not too long ago. And he was saying, you know, designers need to know all of these terms. They need to know all of these finishing details. That's an important part of all of this. And I think this is where you could thrive and talk about it. Yeah, I agree. I'm a product junkie. And so spending, I described going on family vacations and walking in furniture stores.

41:23So I mean, it still carries on. My family is a little worn out with it sometimes, but you're looking and observing and And admiring and had spent a trip in London this summer, of all things, looking at, you know, the perspective of stately homes for Baker. And so that's what we were there doing and walking around these incredibly gorgeous design shops in downtown London. And the thing that I was noticing was that really stuck out to me and it may sound weird, but the majority of frames I was looking at had, you know, all down seats and all down backs. And we as an industry in the U.S. have kind of walked away from that because, you know, there was this comment.

42:06Well, you know, they would say, you know, she doesn't want to fluff it. She doesn't want to, you know, the consumer doesn't want to maintain it. They don't want to do all that. They want maintenance free and, you know, ease and all of that. But part of me says, yeah, but it's like the most comfortable seat that you can ever have if you want to sit in it. And it just envelops itself. It just kind of wraps you. And we've walked away from it from the perspective of maintenance. Well, that's great. We have an option set. We can do that. And we can also give you the maintenance free that you've had and that we still run and still do a ton of business in.

42:42But I still want to offer that. So I'd really like it. I've challenged the team to really go back in and put that into a place where we've got an option set. And then I don't know the last time that some people had an opportunity to sit in something. So hopefully that comes to pass here sooner than later where you can come into the Baker showroom and say, okay, show me an all down seat. I want to see it again. And I want to try it out and experience it. But it's interesting what you were saying too, and I wonder what your perception is of this. So you were over in England, you're looking at all these things.

43:12I'm confused sometimes how often designers talk about how much they love that English countryside look. and a little bit, frankly, a little bit of wear, a little bit of threadbare, and a little bit of clearly someone lives here look in a way that we just don't seem comfortable with. We want the home to look as if it's a showroom and the designer just left minutes ago and it's all sort of pristine. And yet all these designers say the English look, that's their favorite. That's what they aspire to. so what's the disconnect and how as a furniture maker do you have to think about that and be mindful of that yeah great question um you know there's a kind of a draw to the the casualness of something if you really kind of think in your mind there was a time when we were doing a lot of casual furniture in the u.s meaning it was physically distressed and the finish or the chemistry was distressed and there was this relaxed look and it was based on English antiques and Italian antiques and French antiques.

44:24And you were, you were reproducing that look and you were doing that. And the world kind of moved away from reproductions and has moved and transitioned to its place where that overused word of a transitional and then moving into contemporary. And then I even go past that where we've gotten into the world of modern, but there's a, if you will, I think it's a romance where people just look at it and go, I just want to live like that. I just want to live in this space where it just feels like you're not going to hurt it. You're living with it. And it's okay to, you know, heaven forbid, put your feet up on the cocktail table.

44:56And if you scratch it, you added a little more mark to it and it's going to live its life and do things. Like literally there's just a, I think that there is going to be a kind of a return, if you will, back to some of that relaxed, casual aesthetic. That's really what it's all about. It's very livable. It's not, you know, tight and stuffy and kind of the contemporary world kind of takes you to that space where it's just it's difficult to keep.

45:26We're taking a quick break to remind you about Lalloy. Great design deserves to be seen and the story behind it deserves to be heard. On August 17th, Lalloy will open entries for Best in Design live at High Point Market. A new competition celebrating the vision, creative problem-solving, and transformative work of professional interior designers. Four finalists will be selected to take the stage at High Point Market and present a completed project before acclaimed designers Amber Lewis, Jeremiah Brent, and Gene Stouffer. It's an opportunity to share not only the finished space, but the ideas, decisions, and details that brought it to life.

46:08Each finalist will receive$2 ,000 and the overall winner will receive an additional$10 ,000. Entries will be open August 17th through September 17th. Follow Lalloy for more information. And now, back to the show.

46:29I wonder too, and thinking about the future of how people come and interact with furniture. So we go to High Point and there's two big markets a year. And often that sort of is the place where you've got the best opportunity to have all these designers come, come to your showroom, sit on your product, hopefully. but for the many thousands of designers who don't come to High Point, what's the second best way for people to experience that? I know you're in the New York Design Center as we were talking about and you're in the mart in Chicago and is that what designers want? Is that where designers want to come and find that or are there other ways of, I think you and I talked recently about all these people trying to do pop-ups or showing up in different markets.

47:23And you were thinking at one point about, could there be some kind of 24-hour access to a showroom or a space? I mean, what's the future in your mind of where people come and sit and experience the product? Yeah, the design center business, you know, as a whole kind of across the United States has gone through some, you know, I think we'd say some very difficult times. And I think most of that or a lot of that is attributed to the actual property, the property, how it's handled, the property, how it's engaging those designers to not only want to come to, but the ease of access, the curated, if you will, resources that are in the building, that there's just a lot of draw for them.

48:10They can come in and with a, you know, if you will, a simpler amount of time can hit a lot of the work they need to get done with the different brands and the different things they're investigating or, you know, wanting to get quotes and orders and things like that. But the buildings play a huge part of that. And if I was going to say kudos to, you know, I think Jim Druckmann does a great job at 200 Lex. He's got a building that seems to, you know, be doing a good job for all of us in that space. There's a lot of action and activity. You know, other buildings we've got, like, you know, the Merchandise Martin Chicago, you know, that one's gone through some evolutions.

48:43But I think it's evolving in a way right now that is coming back to better for us on the side of the showroom business than maybe that had been in some other years in the past. But some of the other ones are still struggling to kind of be relevant to the crowd that we're trying to have use us in those resources. So the building plays a huge part of it. Brands, you know, for us, you know, looking at the spaces we've got, we've had to come to grips with, you know, we've actually closed a couple of showrooms this year. and that's painful, but it's necessary from the standpoint of that you are running a business and you have to be profitable.

49:21And, and so, um, maybe the marketplace, maybe the building, maybe, um, you know, even point the finger back at yourself. Maybe the product mix wasn't compelling enough to where the, the showrooms weren't compelling enough. And so all of those things kind of add up to making some business decisions that, um, that we're, we're engaged in and working towards. but what we have left, you know, those showrooms, we feel pretty confident that those are going to, they're going to do their job for us. And it's all about that interaction with the designer being a resource for them to come in and show a customer the brand.

49:54And again, be able to have that conversation with them that the actual frame that I may be designing for your space isn't on this floor, but this display, this showroom is this brand Baker and McGuire and everything in here speaks to the level of quality and sophistication and craftsmanship that I want you to, you know, to get your mind around and try out some things. And so that you've got this sense of confidence that what I'm designing for your space is about this showroom. That's what they're seeing. They're using is that, uh, that space and that tool. I think that's still relevant. Hearing you, hearing you say that I, I wonder years ago.

50:31So years ago I came in to take over a custom upholstery business, right? And it was family business, and they brought me in to be the president of the company. It's a similar situation to yours, smaller scale. But I remember at the time trying to read a lot of books about the first hundred days and how you set the tone for those first few months when you get in there and how you want to be perceived as a leader and how you want to communicate with the team and how you want to articulate your priorities and so that everybody starts to understand your way, how you're going to come at this. And I wonder, do you have the Eric Graham way?

51:14Is there a tone? Is there a model? Is there something that you wanted to be sure your team understood about how you work or approach this or how you're thinking about this that you tried to lay out in the early days? And how do you think about that? Yeah, the Eric Graham way that makes me laugh. My mom would be like, oh, heavens no. But I think the reality of that or the word, obviously, culture, coming into a company, 136 years old, the number of people have been with the company, there's quite a few that have been with the company 40 years. And so I think the real task at hand was doing a lot of listening, do a lot of observation as much as you possibly can, ask questions, watch, look, listen.

52:05And I think listening is the biggest part of what I was trying to do early on, which is just listen to people and give them a voice, give them an opportunity to, you know, share with you, express with you, whether it's a frustration or a passion. and invite that as a perspective of constructive criticism or constructive compliments, like setting the tone for a culture that people have a passion for a company and you have to let that passion come through and you have to let people engage in a way that they think, feel, and act in a way that's becoming of the company. You can't per se, I mean you can, but it gets to be dangerous when you just kind of iron fist, say you're going to, you know, you're going to change things.

52:51I don't know that that's going to work ever. Um, the really cool thing about a brand that's 136 years old and has that kind of heritage, or, you know, even back in my very early days with a company that was 90 years old when I started in the business, or, um, you know, if I was going to drop another name with the Shufords and the, the heritage that they have for the company from the 1940s, they have a, they're all of these brands have a sense of being and a sense of, of in a way speaking to you about who they are and why they exist and things that you do in that company and why that company does things.

53:23And you really try and engage that. And then you're navigating a new space and new culture. I mean, you know, if you think about the cultural changes that 136 year old company or an 80 year old company with McGuire have gone through, think about world wars, depressions, you know, even think about business model changes. I mean, you went from, you know, where, where catalogs like the Sears robot catalog came out at a time. And what the heck was that? Who's going to buy from a catalog or 800 numbers, or, you know, you've got this www.com world, and you're going to buy online and you've got websites and all of these things.

53:58And these brands are navigating the space and you're still culturally trying to stay, you know, very true to that brand and do things. And I think that's, what's really unique about some of these companies that have heritage and just really being respectful and mindful of that heritage and trying to engage. And that brand is very much all of those people. So you're trying to engage that culture. And then I think carefully steer and steward a culture to where you think that the brand needs to go so that it's surviving another decade and another decade and another decade. You know, nobody gets a promise.

54:32But I think that if you really have, a real consistent view of how important the people are on the team, I think you can set the tone in a lot of ways that the brand will weather some storms and carry on. It's hard. I didn't realize that there were still so many people that were 40 years have been with the company. That's so lovely. And you can imagine all of these longtime baker employees you know sort of waiting for the for this next level of success to come back to this brand and this company that has that has known such success in the past and as and as you were saying earlier had had worked with all these hall of fame designers the barbara berries and the bill so fields and the thomas pheasants and all of that and i'm sure so many on your team must be rooting for you to bring it back to that level yeah it's it's funny when you say that i just had i had images of, you know, meeting with Bill Sofield and Emma last year and talking about, you know, what if, you know, would you, are you, you know, interested?

55:42I've never met Bill before, first time ever. And the thing I can tell you, the guy's got a dynamic smile. He's a giant. I'm such a fan. Yeah. He lit up. And you know what? And so did Thomas Pheasant, you know, Another one I'm such a fan.

56:23dream things that would really bring a smile to your face. Because if it's going to do that, I think it's going to be wildly successful. So a couple of challenges that you're facing beyond whatever challenges you're facing internally. The first is, so we came into the year thinking we were going to see some interest rate cuts and mortgage rates were going to come down. The environment very much seems to have shifted. We've got a new chairman of the Fed who seems quite upset about the state of inflation and the market has shifted its perception and is now anticipating actual rate hikes in the coming months.

56:59We'll see if that really comes to fruition. Seems like it's more likely than it certainly was before. That's a headwind, no doubt. And then you've got an administration that is hell-bent on tariffs. I don't know if you've heard about that, but they don't want to let that go. The Supreme Court tried to calm it down and they said, no, no, we've got some new ones from 1974 that you're going to love and we're going to bring back. And I wonder how you've been dealing with that and how you're thinking about it to the extent that you think about the big macro picture and how it might influence some of your decisions.

57:39In general, you know, my comment is business is consistently inconsistent. We have, you know, we still have days and weeks that don't make any sense. And then we have days and weeks that don't make any sense and their ups or their downs. And, you know, you're just trying to manage all of that and still keep, you know, taking one step forward, one step forward. And there's a lot of things that are out of control. But, you know, a lot of these challenges are thankfully shared. It's not just a baker problem or it's not just a, you know, upholstery manufacturing problem or something like that. It's everybody's in the same mess and everybody's experiencing the same difficulties and troubles and things.

58:25And so you're just, you know, if you're taking solace in that, that you're not alone, but you're not in a competitive disadvantage by yourself. So it's a disadvantage or an issue or a struggle. So they're shared. Things that are out there that you're grappling with. I mean, from just a deeply personal side of things, I'm trying to get my head around AI. I feel like - How's that coming? I would say not well. Okay. I'm trying to get an understanding of it. I'm trying to figure out how I use it for myself. I don't want to be that person that's, you know, I listen to people say, well, if you're at this age bracket, whatever, you know what, forget about it.

59:07Just ride off into the, you know, the next, uh, you know, seven, eight, nine, 10 years, and it'll be a thing for somebody else to deal with. And I think that's a lousy answer. No, that's no way to deal with it. Yep. No, I mean, you know, I think there's a lot of positives that are out there for me personally. Um, I know that there's a lot of hesitancy because of the, the, the risk, the security risk, the, kind of data, if I would say data breach issues, conversations. Yeah. And then you put it in the hands of nefarious people or organizations and it's another thing. But interestingly, one of your former bosses told me that he's talking to it on his drive to work every morning and that he's got AI going and he's just brainstorming with it.

59:48And he's trying to work through all sorts of issues. And I think a lot of people are doing that. I think a lot of people are using it as a sounding board and seeing what it comes up with. And I I think that's interesting. Yeah, I listened to that podcast. And I also remember back when he and I thought we were really cool when we had Blackberries. So, you know, the world changes so fast. And, you know, thankfully, I've got four kids that perceptively keep me younger with all the stuff that they're taking on and teaching me all this new lingo and all the things that are coming at me. But yeah, it's good.

1:00:22It's an exciting time to be alive. It's an exciting time to be in this industry. And I think that, you know, I continue to tell the board that I am very optimistic. I'm very excited. Yes, there's challenges. Yes, there's issues. But it doesn't change the overall enthusiasm that I have for Baker and for McGuire and for, you know, the industry as a whole and where I am personally. So I think that I would want to continue to try and have that as not a fake facade, but as a facade that people look at and say, you know what, he's glass half full, not half empty. So to that point, and I know that you meet with the board regularly, and I'm sure that expectations are high.

1:01:08When do you want to be judged? so magazine editors come on board and the truth is to really transform a magazine it's at least a year if if not more to to really make meaningful changes with a with a giant set of furniture collections right it's a it's a long time i mean whatever you're doing for high point is done is baked uh at this point but when when will the time be that we can say okay this is eric's this is this is what Eric made happen. And, and we can say great or not so great when it, when it's introduced. That's kind of a scary concept, you know, which we just, you know, we're waiting, we're waiting for that time where we can really judge you, Eric.

1:01:55Oh, please. I really want to be judged. Um, no, I, I think our, our, you know, the team, our company and what we're doing and where we're going and how we're going about things and moving forward. Um, I think anybody that's in this space would agree that when you launch something at market, you launch a collection, I think you get a very quick sense of that it's positive or negative. Yes. And if it's negative, get rid of it. You got to take your lumps. But if it's got that positive, then as it grows and climbs out of that launch cycle and starts to become something that is being utilized and used by designers and companies around the globe, you know, in reality, you don't really get out of, I kind of call it like being up on plane, like a speedboat that finally gets up above the water and you adjust the, you know, you feather the, the, the, and get it to plane on top of the water.

1:02:48And so it's, it's got less drag. It's kind of that, in my mind, that's that collection that gets out. And that's really in the two, kind of two and a half year range where things start to show this is going to be a good thing. It's going to run. And then, you know what? Not that I'm expecting somebody to use this as their judgment timeline for me, but, you know, when a collection and when product comes out and it runs, you know, I don't think it's really unrealistic to expect that a really good collection, it should run for a lot more than 10 years. Yeah. You know, if you really look at the, in the space of upper end, you know, they run for quite a while.

1:03:26And so, you know, that judgment of, I guess I'll say that judgment of Eric is, you know what, I think it's fair to say that, you know, what's coming out and what's it doing in, you know, two, two and a half years, I think starts to say, yeah, that's, that's, that's working. Then you got this awful statistic that you look at and you say, I don't know, you know, I don't, I don't know if you really kind of weigh in and say, uh, what batting average would you say is, is, um, world-class or hall of fame for, um, merchandising product launches in the furniture, you know, home furnishings industry, the furniture space, what, what percentage would you say is really, really good?

1:04:03Well, yeah, exactly. So if you're in baseball, you're in the Hall of Fame if you're hitting one out of three, right? So I mean, and I don't know what that means relative to the furniture world. But I mean, you've got, I think Thomas Pheasant's relaunch is 27, right? and and and it sounds like some of these others are are in the works so it it sounds like it sounds like we can't we can't say this is this is eric's handiwork for this upcoming high point in in october right maybe you've made some some incremental changes but i'm guessing a lot of this had to be in the works but you you tell me no they we we really have we've really made quite a few changes that were even evident in april market um i you know i joke and say i I stuck a wrench in the spokes of the bicycle and did that to October.

1:04:51And the team, as you said earlier, your market is already set and it's already in motion and going. Well, yeah, that was true somewhat last year. And, you know, stopped some of that and said, no, we really, if we're really listening to our customer, I asked, you know, my phrase or my question is who asked for that? Who asked for that, that, that, you know, that design, that thing, meaning you've gotten some feedback from some people as to what you're doing. and they have really given you some indications that they think that you're on the right step forward and they're, you know, no commitments made, but they're looking at the general idea of what you're working with and they have kind of bought into it.

1:05:29So you have a sense of, well, I've done some really good research with this. We've got a launch in October that transparently was coming out and I just asked for permission to allow my team to come in and kind of reconstitute some things and reshuffle and reuse, you know, some of the, the beautiful, wonderful talent that this lady has that's coming out and, and utilizing our talent inside the merchandising side of the talent and that design talent and reshaping something. And that's coming out in October. And I think that, I think it's great. I think it's going to be, um, um, a, a, a really good collection for, for Baker.

1:06:07Yeah. There's a lot of things that are already in works that were actually touched, whether it was me or just the asking the question of the group and the team and saying, you have a voice, tell me what you're really thinking about this. Well, I like that notion of who asked for that or why are we making this model or that model or making this change or that change. I think that's a great way to think about it. And I think you're smart to stay close to the customer and sort of, it's that fine line between, only doing what your customer says, right? And Henry Ford was all, oh, if I'd asked my customers, they just would have wanted a faster horse, right?

1:06:44And that whole model. And certainly Steve Jobs was never about, oh, what does my customer want? He's about, let me create something that they never would have thought of. But it's a little bit different when you're catering to the designers and what they want. In the beginning, I would agree that Steve Jobs didn't ask his customer if they wanted an iPhone or not because they couldn't put their head around it. They couldn't even imagine what this thing was going to do. But then after things have evolved and come out, in a way they're asking what the customer wants because they're absorbing all these apps that are getting the huge amount of users and they're buying them up and they're integrating them in.

1:07:21And the weather app that you pay$2.99 for is now part of their platform. They bought it and swallowed it. So they are asking the customer what they want, but they're just doing it in their own way. you know so in some ways you're doing some things where I'm not asking a customer whether they want this or not I think this is a thing and so I'm going to make a gamble with that thing and then in the moment that you're kind of moving forward with it and getting it more defined more clarity you know clarity more transparency there becomes a moment in time where you would start to share some of it with some people that is to get buy-in and to get excitement and you know in a way you're selling it.

1:07:59And that becomes the inertia that comes behind a launch. That's kind of that space that I think is super important that we're engaging with, you know, our showrooms, our showroom managers, our sales reps, our international customers, you know, the retailers that we sell to and trying as much as we can to, you know, again, continue to ask them and please don't tell me the accolades because the accolades are showing up on the spreadsheets. I just want you to tell me what we could do better. Well, so it sounds like, okay, so it sounds like we will be able to get sort of a sense of where you're going at October market.

1:08:35And how expansively are you thinking about October market? Are you still feeling like we're in this, I don't want to call it a period of contraction, but it's certainly been a challenging time to your earlier point coming out of COVID. And we certainly ate through a lot of future business during COVID. Still feels like we're in that period of, of, of sort of working through a lot of the business we ate up. Yeah. It feels a little bit like you would be hopeful that the business that we, you know, that we swallowed in COVID, if you will, that we took a whole bunch of, you know, business out of the marketplace because, you know, unfortunately people don't buy home furnishings every year.

1:09:14You know, they, they, they do a room, they do a space, they do whatever, and then they live with it for a while, you would hope that we're kind of out of that, if you will, the bulge in the garden hose and you've got this business cycle, we'll start to do a little bit of normalcy and start to be in a place where you're just capturing good, consistent business. I think it feels that way. But again, the jury's still out, so I'll wait. But yeah, we could certainly use a little help with housing starts. We could certainly use a little help with interest rates because, you know, the customers just need to feel confidence that, that, um, their spend isn't going to, you know, dig a hole.

1:09:54Their spend is, you know, additive to their lives and additive to their world and doesn't, you know, cost them a tremendous amount of, you know, the principal side of the world. Um, we've done a lot of backfilling in say last market. Um, we did a tremendous amount of upholstery launches to try and answer some of that comfort, to answer some of those items or products that would really just be good quality, good, useful, like that, we use that phrase sometimes, the little black dress that can go to any kind of an occasion. It's got a lot of versatility and product that we thought was more versatile in that space.

1:10:32So it's another October market with tariffs and some inflation concerns and a war in the Middle East. And yeah, I really can't wait. I'm hopeful that people are going to be in high spirits. Yeah, but we're going to have some great music. We're going to have some great curated wine, whatever that looks like, right? Warren always tells us when the shrimp bar comes back, we'll know the good times are here again. And I'm guessing there's not going to be a lot of shrimp at the October market. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But that's exciting times. I really do. I'm excited to be here. You alluded to it, like, you know, Thomas Pheasant next year.

1:11:11I'm super excited about that. The drawings, the renderings that we've worked with him already and looked at and previewed. There's a lot of, I think a lot of good things coming here near term. And we just have got to do a great job getting the word out and getting people to engage with us. Well, and listen, to your credit, and I know we got to go, but I mean, to your credit, you turned him around on that. He wasn't keen to sort of re-engage with doing a collection for Baker, and he met with you and he got excited about it and he is excited about it. So you certainly have the ability to motivate people.

1:11:44And let's see now what comes out of that. And he's an enormous talent. It'll be fun to see his work out there in a big way. I know we saw a smattering of it earlier, but it would be fun to see it in a big way. So I look forward to that. And again, a lot of the names we mentioned in the show are big names and it would be exciting to see, I mean, what Bill Sofield and Barbara Berry and others bring back. And Laura Carrar, I'm a longtime fan of hers as well. So you've got a lot of, like you say, you've got a lot of great players and a lot of things could happen. And if we could just get some of the macro issues moving in our direction, the industry would be very happy.

1:12:24I'm thrilled to get to talk with you, Eric. I really appreciate the time and I'm wishing you great success in this role. Thank you. I'm flattered by the opportunity. So thank you, Dennis. I really appreciate it. Thanks for listening. If you'd like to keep up with the latest design industry news, visit us online at businessofhome.com, where you can sign up for our newsletter, browse job listings, and join our BOH Insider Community for access to online workshops, a free print subscription, and much more. If you have a note for the podcast, drop us a line at podcast at businessofhome.com. If you're enjoying these conversations, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

1:13:02It helps others to discover the show. This show was produced by Fred Nikolaus and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Thanks again for listening, and I'll see you next week.