How Homes & Gardens' brand director is pivoting in the age of AI

0:02This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Sarah Spateri, the global brand director behind British shelter magazines, Homes and Gardens, and Living Etc. Living Etc. is a modern creation founded in the late 1990s to focus on contemporary style. But Homes and Gardens is an English institution dating back to 1919. After an ownership change, Sarah was tasked with revitalizing the print editions while growing the digital audience. She's been hard at work, keeping both titles vital in a challenging media environment.

0:51I spoke with Sarah about the surprising fact that the majority of her online audience is American, why she wants to democratize the British design scene, and why, despite being an iconic British magazine, Homes and Gardens is open to publishing great design from anywhere in the world.

1:18This podcast is sponsored by Lalloy, maker of rugs, pillows, and wall art for the thoughtfully layered home. Lalloy is headed to High Point Market with new collections from Amber Lewis, Bridget Romanek, and the launch of a new partner. They'll also have new Lolloy collections, plus one-of-a-kind vintage rugs and accessories. Make an in-person or virtual appointment to see it all at lolloyrugs.com. That's L-O-L-O-I rugs.com. And don't forget to follow at Lolloy Rugs on Instagram and TikTok. This podcast is sponsored by Rowe Furniture and Krypton, where performance meets design. As your domestic custom upholstery specialists, Rowe's trade program offers beautiful Krypton fabrics, complimentary samples, concierge service, and freight-included delivery.

2:12Order custom pieces online anytime. It's Rowe on your schedule. Join today at rowfurniture.com slash join. And now, on with the show. Sarah, tell me how you first came into this industry. Oh, well, so my background was actually English literature. So I studied English at Edinburgh University. And from that, naturally thought, hey, maybe I want to be a journalist and did a magazine journalism master's. Did a couple of internships before, worked at wallpaper for a while, things like that, sort of short term. In the days of sort of six months placements, I think I did a couple of those. And then decided to do a magazine journalism master's.

2:56And through that, I got my first role working at Grand Designs Magazine, which was, you know, really lovely, really small team. And it blended what I'd had as a personal hobby, which was a love of art, design, and interiors, which was something that I've always loved organically. My parents always had beautiful houses in terms of lovely and very homey and beautifully done. And so I'd always had appreciation for that, but never really taken it into a career or thought of it as a career, but then working at Grand Design is obviously a lot more architectural and much more about building really. But that sort of made me realize that perhaps I could blend this passion for words and language and editing and with a visual, more aesthetic route.

3:45So did that. I worked there for a couple of years. It was a wonderfully small team, which meant progress was fast. did that for a few years and then applied to wrote to the editor at living etc and said i think i you know i think i must be about 24 and said i love living etc let me know if there's ever any vacancies i think what you're doing is really amazing and she said she replied almost on the same day said somebody's just resigned can you come in for an interview so it was one of those serendipitous moments yeah yes where i you know there wasn't a job vacancy there wasn't it was just a case of I emailed her at the right time and came in met the editor and have been working across living etc and homes and gardens for you know the following 15 plus years and I've done different roles at different times so I started as I say on living etc as features editor writing about kitchens and bathrooms and design ideas and you know interviewing experts and very much within that space um long-form features and then I moved across to homes and gardens in a sort of a I think it was associate editor role where I was really running the decorating team.

4:53And then I moved back to living, et cetera, for a bit. And there's the sort of flip-flop between the two. Obviously, you know, that's the great thing about having these sort of multi-brand publishing houses. By the time we were IPC Media, then we became Time Inc. And then we became TI Media. And then we became Future in 2020. So lots of change, lots of new owners riding the rollercoaster of media across my favorite brands, which are rather like my second children. Well, I'm so glad that you feel that way about them. Let's tell people not everyone might be familiar with Homes and Gardens and Living, etc., and what they're both about.

5:32So let's start with Homes and Gardens. So, you know, we are the UK's original interiors magazine, founded in 1919. So, you know, very long heritage. And really, we were a product of post-war Britain. So we launched off the back of the end of the First World War. So that's such an amazing archive and sort of it's a magazine that can have a living history of how Britain decorates, renovates, creates gardens, entertains. And you know, actually when we had our 100 year anniversary, we had such a great time going through the archive and pulling out some incredible headlines from the past, like 101 uses of electricity or five ways to decorate your air raid shelter, a couple of my favorites that have always felt like me.

6:12Oh my goodness. Yeah. So, you know, obviously that's our path and we've changed a lot over that time. And today I'd say our content spans that kind of layered soulful interiors. We're very much about expert decorating ideas, inspirational gardens, kind of entertaining and sort of heritage. That's very much kind of what we're there for. And we're sort of known for celebrating designers, but kind of at every stage. So whether those are global names or they're new talent, we talk a lot about the sort of decline of media. But actually, looking at our last year, we've had the biggest audience of any UK interiors media brand in history.

6:52You know, we've had across all our platforms, actually, our audience is growing. And yes, we're innovating by the platforms, but it does feel like an exciting time. And I think that scope to meet people where they are on the different platforms feels actually very exciting and feels positive as opposed to, I think, what can become a bit of a negative narrative around media. So I think the U.S. is interesting for us because we have seen incredible traction in the U.S. from an audience point of view. We know our content resonates. So whether that's growth in print sales and brands and mobile or huge digital audience.

7:29So surprisingly, perhaps 70 % of our website audience, web traffic is US. So it's, you know, the scale for us actually is in the US, which is incredibly exciting. There's obviously such synergy between the US and UK, but also really exciting differences. And I think, you know, we can speculate all day long about whether or not the US market responds to us because there's a bit of a British thing. I'm not sure. That's Homes and Gardens. We have a great US team now as well, which has obviously helped us establish. We have a great couple of market editors based in New York and a US-based editorial director called Anna Last, who comes from a kind of Martha Stewart, Food52 background.

8:07So she's bringing a lot of that lovely kind of lifestyle pedigree as well to our content. So that all feels exciting and quite positive for us. Now, Living Etc., it's the younger sister. So more like 30 years or 40 years rather than 100 and however many years. but pretty legendary in terms of the original contemporary design disruptor right it was kind of the first brand that really celebrated the hylo mix that you know with a brand that takes a fashion sensibility so it's very much about kind of you want your home to reflect your personality and it's very much you know it's a style statement and we're about trends and we're about design in a much more design way than where the things and gardens were about decorating.

8:53The background of living, et cetera, we were born in the 90s, and that was obviously the kind of boom of modern design in the UK, right? It was kind of right when design was becoming part of the vernacular, living, et cetera, was very much rode that wave. And it kind of brought that energy and that sort of brought, I guess, contemporary design to the UK mainstream, so to speak, whilst being very forward-looking. So Living Etc. is for, as I said, a younger, it's a younger sister, but it's also for a slightly younger audience and it's much more urban, equally affluent. You know, both of these audiences are very affluent.

9:26And, you know, we speak to both the consumers, but also the trade. We both, you know, with both brands. But yeah, we always think of kind of the sassy younger sister, it's Living Etc. Well, and does the sassy younger sister dream of one day becoming, I mean, does the living, et cetera, we're always trying to think, are they reading these younger publications now and then they're going to come to homes and gardens and want that kind of lifestyle in 10 years or something? It's such a good question, Dennis, because I feel like I am like the living embodiment of this. I think as I've got older, I've got like so much more pattern in my home and so many more things that I think probably I would have thought were potentially a bit trad before.

10:09and now I'm kind of, so I think, well, I think the Living, etc. Rita is growing up with her living, love of living, etc. But I think, and you know, we've been quite careful or tried to be quite careful in ensuring that actually as sort of maximalism and eclecticism becomes the trend, actually the brands don't get too close together because I think it was obviously quite easy when modern or contemporary was quite simple and minimal and pared back. But as actually that eclecticism is very modern now, you can be very modern. I think those two style stables move closer together in the current zeitgeist.

10:47Everybody loves Beata. Beata works for a living, et cetera, reader and the Homes and Gardens reader, right? She could be either, really. And I think there's so many brilliant designers working today who are very decorated and layered and soulful Nicola Harding, you know, but actually also quite modern and their pieces are quite modern and they're not super classic, which I think obviously we always say homes and gardens, timeless elegance, classic style, living, et cetera, kind of contemporary design, sort of forward looking interiors. But yes, I mean, I think probably a lot of people do grow up through living, et cetera, and then move to homes and gardens.

11:27Yeah. I mean, I'm so curious and you and I have talked about this in the past about the huge percentage of traffic, as you were saying, that Homes and Gardens is seeing from the U.S. And funny enough, we were just having a conversation on our Thursday show news program about this big online brand Wayfair is actually battling with this issue that many furniture companies are using British brands' photography to show their product, and it's thievery and wrong. And so, I mean, so suddenly Sophie Conran and others' images are showing up on this site. And we believe that part of it is because, of course, they know how obsessed the U.S.

12:13market is right now with British design. So, unfortunately, they made the decision, so let's just go steal some images from British design and use them as our own. Okay, that's not what we want people to do. But you were saying earlier, you know, how much of it is this British thing? And what is this British thing? And why are Americans so drawn to it? There is something about British style that's resonating. And, you know, it could be the kind of cozy maximalism, I guess. It's sort of very, as I said, very Beata. It's Lulu from Soane. It's that layered, soulful, to use that word again, aesthetic that feels, it speaks to heritage and is often rooted in older homes.

12:54with historic detailing. And I think, and, you know, correct me if this is a wrong assumption, but I think the changes in housing, you know, from a housing stock point of view, I think what is considered a treasured housing stock in the US possibly has shifted in recent years, whereas it used to be a real propensity to build new. And actually now people are more and more sort of seeing the charm and the sort of, you know, the emotional grounding that you get from living in a in a heritage building. And I think that shift in the US sort of mindset from a housing point of view, potentially dovetails with the idea that actually, a lot of what anchors British style is the mix of antiques and found items and inherited pieces that you build your room on, as opposed to buying everything new.

13:38And I think that's been a sort of a fundamental premise for British interior designers, you know, through their careers. And I think that's very, classically British to sort of collect lots of treasures and then add the layers on top. And I think perhaps that, you know, that move towards that heritage and history could be what is appealing. But coming back to talking about some of the economics of it, and I love that you have made the paper investments. And again, this is what makes Americans feel sad about some of our top shelter magazines is we get yours and they're just heavy and glossier. And I take it that somebody was able to convince whoever writes the check for all of that, that that was important.

14:30I mean, to your earlier point, to change this narrative from media being in decline and seeming more confident. Yeah. I think where we got to with it, and I think I actually feel really passionately about print being a really beautiful product. And I think Frederick is a good example of this, Cabana, a good example. And also, of course, the sort of more independent magazines, very niche independents. Obviously, we operate on a very different scale to them. But I think what they show and hopefully what our investment, albeit different, but in the quality of print shows is you need to create an experience that people really enjoy.

15:06Otherwise, people aren't going to part with their£6.99. And I think what coupled with that was the case that we were able to make was sort of advertising growth off the back of that. So, you know, we believed that we needed to create an environment that advertisers wanted to be within. And that, yes, of course, comes down to our content and great editorial, but also I think comes down to the production quality. And, you know, if our clients' budgets aren't never ending and parting with it for them is a big investment and it needs to look and feel as great as they believe that, you know, So they want their brand to be within that.

15:42So I think we did it first with Living Etc. And we invested in bringing the paper of Living Etc. up to, this is a bit insidery, but up to the level of wallpaper, which was a big jump up from us. Because as I said, in our private equity days, an independent advisor had suggested that actually a very good way of saving money would be sort of a not complete standardization, but a sort of banding of different magazines onto different stocks, which actually does obviously make pretty good economic sense, but not if you're in the business of creating beautiful products and your black product being this sort of shop front or showcase of your brand.

16:15So we were undoing what had been a bit of a, let's say an aggressive set of decisions made during that time. And we just actually thought, you know, if we want to grow our advertising revenue, and if we want to continue to convince our audience and our consumers to spend their money on our magazine, we have to create a product that feels and makes them feel good and reflects what we're saying about ourselves as a brand. So we did it first with Living Etc. And then we did it more recently with our, so October last year was our, we increased the format of homes and gardens as well as the paper. So we made it a little bit bigger, which actually on the newsstand has made a really big difference.

16:53You know, we're talking millimeters, it's not, but actually it feels a bit bigger and bolder. And yes, it's obviously you pay the price, literally pay the price when paper's expensive. But we believe that there is payback in additional commercial revenue and also newsstand growth.

17:16We're taking a quick break to remind you about Roe Custom Furniture and Krypton, where performance meets design. Together, they combine Krypton stain-resistant easy care fabric with Roe's unmatched custom craftsmanship, giving you beauty that lasts. Designers rave about this partnership, luxury without the worry. If you're attending High Point Market, join them for their designer brunch at the Rose Showroom in the Showplace Building, Sunday, October 26th from 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. They create a warm brunch experience filled with genuine hospitality, vibrant energy, and delicious bites. Plus, it's the perfect chance to experience why Rose Trade Program is a designer favorite.

18:01it. Learn more at rowfurniture.com slash join. And now back to the show.

18:14Tell me about how you think about interior designers to that point. And you and I have talked in the past about how interior designers are perceived in the UK versus how they're perceived in the States. And many of the British designers that I speak with are always excited to be coming to the US where they feel there are bigger projects and that their whole process is just more warmly embraced or better understood. Yeah. And I think that's absolutely true. I think there's a much more church and state approach in the US than there is here. I think I was so, So when I first, you know, my first trip to New York was probably in about 2021, not personally, but through Homes and Gardens.

19:01I couldn't believe that you couldn't get into the design center without sort of an appointment and a pass. And it's a much less formalized profession here. And that's not to say that interior design isn't celebrated, but I think it's a less commonly done thing to use a decorator. whereas I think there's a you know people who are creating beautiful homes in the U.S. largely you know use decorators and decorators price around how they work with their suppliers and you know there's a very solid reason for the kind of the way that the supply chain is set up and I think here it's a little bit more fluid and a little bit more open.

19:34I think the interior design world is actually very small and I'm very one of my passions is actually looking at how we create make it bigger and make it a more inclusive space and make it something that you know where more voices are celebrated and spoken about within our sector because actually it can become quite inward looking and I you know I we've talked about my uh well homes and gardens is next in design initiative which is about just that sort of celebrating emerging under the radar maybe young maybe not that could be their second career it's not about that it's just about finding people at a different stage of their journey who perhaps haven't had either the project or the budget or the resource.

20:16You know, one of our NID 2025 winners from last year, she'd had to work another job for the five years she'd been trying to establish her practice. And so she just hadn't been able to invest in taking it on full time because she had a young family that she needed to support. So we are really keen to sort of democratize the UK interior design scene by bringing out more names and actually writing as a media brand, writing about these people, giving a voice to these people, showing them on our social channels, creating a community, networking opportunities for these, you know, so that we can all have a bigger, bolder, brighter, a more varied look at interior design.

21:00And if we are able to do that in the US as well, happy days. And as you say, I think the world is different in the US for interior designers. And there are many more bodies and, you know, like the DLN and there are lots of established incredible bodies, but often these focus on very much the top practices as well. And there are lots of lists that celebrate the top practices. And there's a lot of focus on a small pool of brilliant designers. And actually, we hoped with Next in Design to look at how we celebrate and bring visibility to people who are doing great work, but perhaps on a smaller scale, or they haven't yet been able to take on that sort of landmark leap project.

21:42So I love that Next in Design is something that you're focused on. And we're always talking, too, about how do we keep this next generation of designers? In much the same way we talk about media, I don't want to start talking, oh, in the good old days of design, it was like this. And talk about as if we've passed. Because really, I feel like the design industry is so vibrant. There's so much demand on every level, at every price point. People want better design or they want to have things that feel more personal and more related to them. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think that comes through at every price point, I think, is such an interesting way of looking at it.

22:27Because, of course, not everybody can afford to have Christopher Farr cloth incredible through their home. But now they do lovely finished cushions, maybe they can have a cushion. And actually, I think Schumacher having a little bit of their sort of retail, if some of their retail products in some stores, again, incredible product, but it's nice to provide access points to people who might be at a different stage of their journey. Maybe they'll be their customer down the road. But I think where we can open up, give access to all levels to the vibrancy and, you know, wonderment of great interiors, that's what we're here for, right?

23:04We want people to believe as much as we do that, you know, having a beautiful home will make your life better. Because actually being in an environment, I was really, really interested. So before I moved into this house, we were renovating for three years because we did two houses back to back. and we were staying in within my parents had a sort of self-contained basement flat there and my children lived in a very nice bedroom not decorated at all the two of them shared it was completely plain and you know we were we thought we were going to be there for nine months and we were there for three years and then we moved in here and they had their own bedrooms and you know it was suddenly and my then five-year-old went from being a young five-year-old to being a really tidy self uh more independent confident five-year-old because she had her room that was her space and she had her desk and she could put her clothes away and she could find her clothes and it was very much her she had a space that she could call her own and that's different for everybody but it was sort of a transformational shift about having a room for her that actually caused this sort of landmark leap forward in how independent and she and obviously children change all the time, right?

24:14So I mean, I could be pinning a lot to nothing. But for me, I felt like it felt like that sort of embodiment of the fact that your environment does affect how you feel. And if you create a space that's right for you, whether it's whatever that space is, if you enjoy being there, then that will have a positive impact on how you feel. And these small changes make you feel brighter and lighter and better. No, I couldn't agree more. Another thing that it sounds like you do, there's two initiatives I want to talk about this. So this By Design, which sounds like it's... So yeah, By Design is a brand new creative platform that we're launching.

24:48And the goal is to bring some of our incredible interior designer contacts directly to our audience. So we've onboarded 10 US-based interior designers. So contributors include Zoe Feldman, we have Nina Takesh on board, Katie Harbison, among others. So brilliant designers. And they will be writing content for us, kind of original content in every month. So we've kind of originally brought them on for about six months initially, and they're going to just be authoring kind of whatever they want. The idea is that it's not a commission. I'm not sitting here in London thinking that this is what they need to write about.

25:24We want them to authentically write about what's interesting to them and kind of keeping them up at night or they think that our audience would be interested to know about. We know that people want to read what people have to say, right? We It's a change in terms of Google. And I think it's, you know, very personality driven content is where you can differentiate from AI, right? If you cannot get an authentic voice from AI, you can get a lot of information. I love using AI in lots of different ways. Personally, I think it's a great tool, but you cannot get personality driven content from it. You cannot get authentic voices.

26:04So with our creator platform by design, we are just looking to bring some of those authentic voices to our audience on our platform. So obviously they've got the Homes and Gardens audience and that's a big audience and that's giving visibility to them and the chance for them to write about what they want to write about. And from our point of view, they've also got great audiences and they're very interesting people. So we also get the wonderful benefit of association with them and collaboration and ideation and all the good things that come with working closely with different people. We've been talking a lot in recent months about the rise of Substack and other platforms where, as you say, more personality-driven content can be created and content that doesn't have to be filtered for an advertiser needing to sign off on it or not sign off on it.

27:00I wonder how you're thinking about that aspect of it. I mean, we absolutely are thinking about the aspect of that. So what this is as a creative platform is us exploring how we might look ahead to an open platform. You know what? Because obviously with Substack, what we wanted to do with Homes and Gardens is bring these great, great voices in and then to speak to the authority and the values of the brand. And the risk with an open platform is obviously you don't have that curation of voice. But it's very interesting to us. And I think, you know, as somebody who follows myriad sub stacks and gets a lot of joy from that, you know, I think that's where we will all be evolving.