Masterpieces in wood: The enchanting world of Féau Boiseries

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking to leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Guillaume Théo of the French workshop Théo Boiserie. With a history stretching back to 1875, Théo Boiserie is internationally recognized for its expertise in decorative wood paneling, whether it's an antique from the time of Napoleon or a meticulously crafted reproduction. In his showroom in the center of Paris, I spoke with Guillaume about why French artisanship is so prized, the intriguing international market for antique paneling, and why he's bringing Fayobois-Uri to New York City.

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1:45But did you know that most every piece of furniture is customizable? Designers can choose from hundreds of fabrics, an array of leathers, more than a dozen wood finishes, and most upholstery pieces can be made with contrast welts, dual fabrics, nailhead trims, and so much more. design something one of a kind and ethan allen will bring it to life to join their trade program go to ethan allen.com slash trade and now on with the show guillaume let's set things up for for the listener first let's let's describe for people exactly where we where we are right right now Well, I mean, right now we're in your magical office, which is, well, you describe it.

2:34It's a cabinet of curiosity. Actually, it's the original office of the founder of the company who built that in 1885. And it's an architect office, and I transformed that in a curiosity cabinet full of small architectural details, pieces of marble, bronze fragments, paneling fragments, drawings, model of home, archaeological pieces, shelf. And tell me what FEO is today, what it was, and how long have you been in this space? so field brasserie is a company would do wood paneling for big interior designer and architect so our main business is to build beautiful french woodworking sometime english sometime italian but a lot of french uh beautiful carpentry uh using some beautiful input from the from the 17th century to the 1970s.

3:43And we also make new creation. But we have the largest inventory of a beautiful, iconic room from the best designer from the last 300 years. Our motto is to collect the best pieces from the best designer and architect. And so, you are here in the condi shop for designer. I love this kind of expression. I know it's a little bit crazy. but it's very important because from small details of a nice wood paneling from the past you can recreate something very modern by using new technique multiply one details having a modern finishing playing with a new color and bring with a beautiful different setting of modern art contemporary art modern furnitures could create something very unique.

4:42We are working in an extremely high-quality world. Yes, a rarefied world a little bit. Yes, a rarefied, but a very successful world now. We are working all around the world, but the US is one of our biggest markets. But we have about 35 projects going on from the West Coast America to Australia, including Japan, but also Hong Kong, Bangkok, Brunei, all around the world. So you can come here, as you were just describing, you can come here, you can see what Napoleon's architect did. Exactly. And we have some fragments of Napoleon's office. So we have a different place of Napoleon, from Boarnay, from other places.

5:33and we have the chance to own this fragment. So we can recreate new things from that. And that's what we love to do. Or we can recreate the exact replica of that also. So people have that option. So they can be inspired by the Ruhlman that they see here, for example. Yes, exactly. And we can play with the designer and trying to build together something that could be like the future Ruhlman style of the 21st century. that's something we love to do we love to to be inspired by the past it can not only be an aesthetical inspiration it could be a technical inspiration also the technical aspect is very important the french craftsmanship is is very good we have some old technique from the antique period old periods from the 17th century or to the 1930s and we we love to use those technique because they are extremely luxury and we love to bring that to our clients.

6:34And I want to talk about that more, but let's tell people a little bit. So we're talking to you, it's the 150th anniversary? Yes, this year it's 150th anniversary. The founder of the company was close to the opera area for 10 years. It started in 1875. We think he was involved in the project of the opera. he was a great gilder and he was doing paintings and decor and also he was designing a few a few stools uh he's very well known to have developed a very special uh model of stools in the 19th century but his major business were uh painting uh and gilding on wood paneling and also creation of wood paneling decor so he bought this property here we are just six blocks from the plaza litoire or we are right in the center of Paris, which is kind of unique.

7:28You don't have so many old French companies who still have their original location. You have Hermès, you have a few ones like that, but we are just a few ones. And we are extremely lucky to have that. So he reused one of the glass of the iron structure of the roof of the World Exhibition of 1878. So that's the roof? Yes, that's the roof. And I found out just two years ago, people from the Orsay Museum told me that and I didn't know that and I say now I understand why we have so much beam because they have not been created for art building but for the world exhibitions it's a crazy thing well it's spectacular yes it's very people don't realize when they come from the street they think it's a normal shop but in fact it's not normal we have almost 20 ,000 square foot of mess there's nothing normal about this shop.

8:21No, it's kind of unique. So tell me, and I want to come back to the history and the evolution, but I want to understand, as you say, when you're working, so Michael Smith, for example, who wrote the foreword to your book, right? And he's a good client. Very good friend and client. Yes. So tell me the process. Michael will come here and he'll have an idea of what he wants? yes yes he could be he called me and michael is is a we know each other since most 20 years now so we know so there's a shorthand yes it's kind of easy you know we we go quick on the uh and uh and i love to work with michael he's a very talented uh designer and so we we give me some direction some inputs you go you have to go in that project direction or go in that museum direction and we we we draw for him on very quickly a few rooms a few possibility only select what he liked and after he showed that to his client and and we after we prize and after we make technical drawings much more accurate than the photoshop drawings were more aesthetic but it's a very good way to drawings is a very good way to build up a proportion for a room proportion is a key world in our world.

9:44You cannot use a huge high-understanding room from the Place Vendôme in the Fifth Avenue, low-understanding apartment. You can do something, taking some input from some details, but you have to be careful. Proportion is a key word. So coming back to the history, so the business starts, he's a gilder, he's doing this very specialized work. and then you begin to acquire these archives. And I imagine over 150 years, there's ups and downs in the business. Yes, we have a very interesting story. So Mr. Fournier who created the business, he was very extremely lucky because this period was a gilded age in America.

10:32It was a 200 big family, the bunkers, the industrial family in France. You had all the big European clients and they were all very fascinated by the 18th century they're all recreating some new castle hotel particularly all around the world and we had humongous project that was a golden age of our company and we have worked for henry fric we have worked for the van der beelt we have also do a crazy house in paris who was the most beautiful parisian mansion it was the pink palace the palais rose and built by bonnie de castellan he was a very very important uh people from the society of paris he was described by proust in in many of his of his book and he was married to mrs gould uh one of the favorite daughter of mr gould a lot of uh children of billionaires of america have been have been have been married to two noble families yes they are not the only one and the the relation was sometime kind of complicated it was it was complicated and they they get divorced but before divorcing they had the crazy idea to reproduce the the grand triadon of Versailles in the Avenue Foch oh so you have to imagine that the new force was a fifth Avenue of of of Paris and it was extremely uh complicated to get a piece of property and he bought almost he bought a full block with the money of the gold and he recreated that house and he also he also recreated the staircase that we the 14 have created in versailles who have disappeared in the 19th century he recreated that uh just to show how important he was for the for the parisian life right and for the french life and also for for the american uh people and because of his wife and so we were We have done many room for them.

12:27He was one of our biggest clients at that period. So, and this was a big statement that the new rich Americans would want to make. Yes, by recreating some part of Versailles or something grand from French history. It was very trendy. And after World War I arrived, and it was a great big shock. A lot of workers of the company died at war. and the the front of the company become depressed he had to announce the bad news to the family who was living in some of the building he owned in the street so it was a tough situation and he he didn't handle it and uh the company uh started after in 1911 after the war and um it became more an interior design company the man who bought the company Mr Greloux was more an interior designer and my grandfather purchased a business for my father in the late 50s and my father was a designer too he was yes but he's still kept both of them kept the collection the the space and the and still acquire some nice panel so but they changed the business of the company and when i started work for my father i had to kill the father i had to change i realized i i wanted he doesn't mean that literally no no no it doesn't mean that he actually killed his father no it's a metaphor yes somehow you have to have to do it because he was a designer and and i didn't want to become a designer i realized we had something much better to do is to to to to go back to the original business of the company we were doing before world war one and to wear to to be to become again a supplier of great decor, great wood carpentry room for the big designer and architect all around the world.

14:20Well, and what made you think that that was a better business model to pursue? What made you see that opportunity? And you were so young. Yes, I was. Yes, my grandfather gave me some share of the company. He was 16. I had a great relationship with my grandfather. He was a great man. And he was, unfortunately, he was a frustrated decorator. He was? Yes. His father didn't want him to become a decorator. Because his father didn't think that that was a very grand position? Yes, exactly. Right. And he purchased for him a company of chemical transportation. Here, please go and do chemicals. Do a real business.

15:01Yes. Okay. But my grandfather, I've been a designer for a few years. he was working with Jean Pascoe, who had done the Normandy boat in the 30s. He was a great designer of the 30s. But my father had to quit that business. But my father became a designer, I think because of the frustration of my grandfather. Oh, so he wanted to live his dream for him? Yes, yes, yes, for his son. And my grandfather bought him this business to my father. my father was working at the jansen firm he was assisting christian boudin to redecorating the white house and after my grandfather for the kennedys and after my grandfather bought him that business in the early 60s and and i after i i realized uh i love interior design because i'm in the center of the interior design world but yes but anyone to i didn't want to become a design i I prefer to do the business we were doing before World War I and to go back to that history.

16:03How did you know about what the business had been? It came step by step. And I was listening to my father. I worked for him for a few years here. But also, I've done an MBA program in San Francisco. And during my MBA program, I have managed an antique and interior design shop for designers of California. and he saw on my on my uh papers uh piles of uh drawings of panelings and he told me i love those we need those we don't we don't know how to manage this problem when we do a project on pebble beach and we have to to build many rooms we don't know how to do it we need we need your people help right we need your help yes and he make me he confirmed my idea of doing that that that direction and to go back to that business and the on the ethne a lot and he was one of my first clients uh in in san francisco and after i developed a lot the california market with michael with andy scurman with a with other designer from california okay so did you did you come back to to paris after yes i yes i i i left i left san francisco and uh and and i i came back here i had my father for one or two years to managing a big project in Tokyo for Robuchon it was a French castle we built in in Tokyo and the and the for Taiwan or Bishon and and after my father decide to to he had some health issue and I push him a lot trying to explain him we have to do that at the beginning say no and after he find out that I bring some new clients who had the same vision that I have and I bring some nice designer and he was kind of happy and the transition was okay and the and the finally so you were able to say I already have orders yes there's already a demand it's more easy when you can do that it's not just an idea no and he helped me and he was kind of happy because we that's also part of the old history of the business so it was not something completely different.

18:14And we have the tools also.

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19:02And now, back to the show.

19:08so at the time did you have all of these work rooms did you have all these crafts people to make all of this it was kind of tough we used to do curtains here on sofas and the and not wood paneling we were doing some wood paneling with subcontractors so i had to to bring some some new people to build some workshops to create some some new space to do the finishing to to to learn about the technique that the some competitors and the suppliers to to to bring that in in in a house workshop and it took me a few sometimes but i made it quite quite well and the and also i had the chance to i had the chance to have also some some crazy clients who bring me some crazy projects tell me tell me you're the crazy clients one of one of the most important one and i think it built my my my my life a lot was a german uh billionaires who had sell a chemical conglomerate about 25 years ago and who bought one of the most extraordinary house in saint-jean cafe called the villa fiorentina that richard cameron uh redecorated in the 50s and it's an iconic house Alberto Pinto told me one day, you know, this house for me is the most beautiful house in the world.

20:30And Alberto Pinto knows many houses in the world. He knows beautiful houses. Yes, he used to know many houses. And now he passed away, but he was a great client and a very good friend. He was. Yes, and he told me that. And those clients came with their architect and designer from Kstatt. And they told me after one visit in my office for two hours, you're going to do the full two major floors of a home and we want something very crazy. So that was a great help because this house was amazing. That helped you to confirm your idea when you're young and that gives you a lot of self-confidence. And after a lot of big designers from America helped me a lot.

21:14and people like Robert Couturier or Brian McCarthy or Michael Smith now much more and other designers and architects, Suzanne Tucker, Bunny Williams. Yes, your son was talking about working with Bunny Williams. Yes, and we even worked with Peter Marino sometimes or other big names. I don't like to do them dropping. No, no, it's an impressive list. Michael Mazinski is also a very good client. We have plenty of clients in America, a lot of designers and great architects. Ferguson and Shemamian, Oscar, was also a great architect. Some of his partners are in the office now working on some projects.

21:55So we have a very strong relation with those partners. And also the GC could be also a great partner. And they like to work with us. They feel confidence. And do they all want to come here and sort of wander through and see everything? Some want. Michael is supposed to come now. Is that right? Okay. Michael Smith is on his way. He's on his way. Okay. But to confirm some modification, he was here with his client yesterday. Okay. Some like to come and some don't need because they have their own feeling. It's very weird because they have all different ways to act. And it's not because it's different that the result is not perfect.

22:44And sometimes there is some client I never met, and the designer has his own ID, the architect has his own ID, and the job is perfect. It's fantastic. It's amazing. We need a strong vision of someone. So when people are coming to you, and if they're not even coming here to be inspired, what is it that they're relying on you to do? What is your reputation? And sometimes we can just pick one small details of a 17th century panel and we can recreate with just one small detail a very 1930s new room style, which is kind of weird because we are talking about 17th century, 1930s. But the way we can play with that details, we can bring it in another style.

23:32And that could be very interesting. It's very important to, we don't want to cut everything with the past. It's very important to respect that. But the thing is, I have always loved the mix of a beautiful neoclassic decor, paint in white, with a beautiful commode in Mahogany, and with an African sculpture, or a beautiful painting by Jean-Michel Basquiat, an African sculpture on the top of a commode in Mahogany. That mix, to me, is very clever. and having a stool by Lallan also around the corner or something like that. To me, this golden mix is really, really nice and it's very sexy. Is it hard though, I imagine it is, for you to sell some of the things that are on display?

24:20The room I sold to the fastman, I have to admit, that it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking. Yes, my father bought 30 % of the room and after i i was a chance to to find with the galaxy and google uh the the other part of the room we make everything together and the that room was amazing probably one of the most beautiful room made in the 17th century the louvre wanted to acquire that room to to to make a fantastic display but finally they didn't find this proper space to to do it so somehow when you sell this room yes you are happy money for the financial issue for the money yes right but but but somehow you it's a little bit little part of yourself you are selling yes a little bit of your history and i was shocked a couple of years ago a chinese lady came and she wanted to buy 17 room my most important rooms and i was at the beginning i i had all the number i said oh i'm rich but after i find out uh uh three day after i almost make a depression because what happened because because i would be scared to not have all these beautiful treasure in my in my collection you didn't want to sell and she she she tried to remove the money from china and it was a complicated situation with the government so she was she was stopped and she was not able to buy the the hotel particularly on the collection of woodpunning.

25:51So finally, I was really happy that it didn't went through. So you were rich quickly for a day or two, and then you thought, no. But I was happy. In the end, you were happy because you had all of those rooms. Yes, and it made me thinking if it happens again, I will limit this situation to only four to five rooms and not 17 or 18. Right. Yes, so I will be a little bit rich, but not so. You'll have a nice house. Yes, that's enough. Yes, and then that's enough. Yes. That's enough. So you've talked about working with so many wonderful American designers. Yes. And one of the big undertakings that you are taking on is actually coming to America and opening up a showroom in the D &D building.

26:39Yes, yes. We'll say sometime in the spring or the summer. Who knows? End of March, early April, it's going to be, the room are ready. Okay. The space is empty. We need to build the wall on the, some of the floors on the boat. So it's going to be for sure in three and a half months, it's going to be done. Okay. So things are on a boat? Yes. So some of your collections, some of what's here? Yes, yes. The seven rooms we will install in that space are done. They are ready. okay then you will have some some beautiful room by by ledoux uh by by belanger uh by persier fontaine some straw marketry room uh we are we are uh reusing some panel we have used for michael smith dining room in madrid with a beautiful gray sea paper uh we have we are reusing a rouleman room in white fantastic the best room rouleman ever made we sold to the louvre abu dhabi will be reproduced there.

27:38There is also a fantastic room I love. It's a room that Jean-Michel Franck copied for the Guerlain family in the 30s. And it's going to be a really, really nice and unique showroom. So, right. So you're going to have quite a few historic pieces in there, it sounds like. Tell me what you're imagining happening from that, because not every designer is going to be able to work with you, I imagine. Yes, there is always a cost issue. I think I will need to explain to them that I know not every client can afford that, but we have some room in the 400 ,000 euros. So I think it's the price of a Bentley.

28:25Oh, so you make it sound very reasonable. No, I mean, you say it like that. We are in a special high quality world. Of course. And I think a Bentley is used after three years on my room. They will live forever with the room and they will enjoy it every night and day. And when they will wake up, they will go through their apartment and they will see that beautiful work and they will love it. And when I start to work with a client, I have it forever. Most of the time, when they have a new space, they come back. And there are so many U.S. clients who are working in the fifth or sixth project. And I have to say that I'm like a drug sometimes for some of them.

29:09Well, I wonder. I mean, because I can imagine people getting addicted to wanting to have this. Yes, they are very happy. And if they go back to other suppliers, they might sometimes not be so happy. So they're still maybe spending a little bit less money, but at the end they come back. Tell me, I want to talk more about America, but tell me a bit about French craftsmanship and the traditions of how your workrooms make and manufacture and what makes it so special and hard to replicate and hard to teach. too because we have a unique uh i think we have a unique sense of quality the craftsmanship is very fantastic we have some special training program called the company on the tour de france the company on the devoir and we have a lot of these training people people following this training program in our company and we have uh so it's an apprentice program they start very early when they're 14 years old.

30:13When they're 14? Yeah, but they can come after. Okay. Sometimes you have people who are in the bank business who come back. Right, okay. But it's a very good program and they go in workshop for many years and they learn all the techniques. So we have plenty of different fantastic techniques from the past. And with the unique quality and the skill is really amazing. Because it seems, I mean, and you tell me all of your capabilities, but I mean, glass and wood. Yes, yes. I mean, yes. Yes, glass is something new. We don't use to do glass room, but a very big architect and interior designer from New York told me, we receive a price from someone who was extremely expensive.

30:54Can you do that for other price? And I say, yeah, I can make it. Yes, I can do it. And I learned how to make it. And we find some... The first room I made with a subcontractor from Italy and England, it was complicated. And now I find out with someone in Paris, suburb and we know how to manage that very precisely and perfectly more easy in a more easy way and they do fantastic work and they have done some some detail of the Notre Dame renovation and the cast glass is really a new field I'm exploring now and we are doing fantastic room I mean that that's extraordinary yes it's very different the designers see that that glass molding yes yes yes yes yes it's amazing it's amazing yes yeah yes so getting back to america and and opening the showroom at the at the dnd building what is that going to make possible for for you do you think i hope you know i i think i would like to develop this market more uh i think there is a lot of designer who who don't know me who are not sure and the uh it's a and sometimes you can have a small designer architect in america who can have one big client yes going to the dnd is a good way to to propose and to show to this client quickly what we can do and they can run in the showroom in five minutes and we see wow this is beautiful uh straw market we are they call yes beautiful french oak patinate like in the jean-michel frank style they can be really they it will feel confidence that we can do that for them and uh it's a it's a very good way to to bring that to to america and also my client from the west coast are happy we have a drawing office in new york so they don't have the nine hour difference time frame right and i think we are thinking about building a workshop also in in the next three to four years in new york and with a training program of a young American.

32:58And also we would like to develop that situation also. Okay. And train people there. Yes, train people, higher people from America. In the same tradition. Yes, yes, yes.

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33:59So what is the most challenging part of scaling a highly specialized business like this? Tell me what some of the challenges are for you. I think it's a communication with the clients. Try to have the best communication you can and try to understand what they want and try to help them to create the most beautiful thing and to motivate them to motivate their clients to create some beauty. That's the most challenging thing to do. And to do so, you have to present them some extremely beautiful thing. That's why we collect the best pieces from the best designer and architect. Because with a nice set of pictures, with a beautiful model, you can explain them.

34:47that could be fantastic for your dining room and using that details have been created for this king or this big client or this beautiful uh english billionaire in the 30s by rollman could be fantastic in your home in palm beach that's what we try to achieve and try to motivate them and give give the designer the tool to motivate their clients and and when you acquire all of these pieces how do you how do you even go and and excavate them from where they are it's a crazy world because a big big auction house don't like to deal with that so uh they call most of the time they call me directly we made private sale because it's complicated to to to remove everything even to analyze if a room is antique or not normally you need to see the back so there is a big risk you cannot remove a room without be sure it's antique or not it's kind of complicated so they yeah they call me directly and uh and uh and also I buy directly from big collection big collectors I I recently acquired a fantastic Jean-Michel Franck room in store marketery which is unique it's one of the best store market room he made in the 30s for the princess winarita the polynac singer and i i was so happy to have it and it's going to be show at the tefaf new york in the armory show next next may uh with there we are sharing the property with jack lacoste of that of that room and it's going to be a fantastic event because that room is amazing it's a museum pieces so acquiring this thing is is so very exciting and we are or I was not sure to be able to buy it.

36:34And sometimes you can be with competitors. You don't know who they are, if they are very rich or not. So it's always crazy story. Right, so you never know for sure. You never know, you never know. And I almost miss the first someone, a small gypsy did offer me that from two years ago and he didn't trust the guy. And I was wrong because the room was full of awful thing. and at the back you see a little bit of straw marquetry but it was a mess and the the room looked distressed and i was not sure and when i look at the men i said it cannot be jean-michel franc and two years later an auctioneer came back and tell me this is frog and he showed me the certificate of the foundation and and he had no doubt and he was white and i missed the opportunity to buy that from two years before and i finally acquire it but but it's always story like that and i have plenty of crazy story one well i'm sure one day i bought in houston texas a huge a humongous collection of wood paneling that had been built by a billionaire from texas in the 50s 60s 70s his name was john mecham and he wanted to build a huge collection of paneling because he wanted to build a huge five-star hotel in texas in houston dallas and and he had the good idea to reuse those beautiful decor so he he acquired many big rooms and he purchased some fantastic collection like jansen when jansen uh the big interior design company went in bank oopsie after when the shah of iran collapsed they closed their business and they made an auction and my grandfather and my father went to this auction and they tried to buy some paneling.

38:24And this man from Texas bought everything in front of the French dealer. And one day, a lady came in a Biennale des Antiques Affaires in Paris and she came to see me. I bought her house in Houston, Texas. And I said, I don't really care, but why not? And after she sent me a pile of pictures with thousands of pictures of beautiful decor and I say what is that and she told me without the house I had a warehouse full of paneling I don't want to keep can you buy them and I say yes and I bought all these beautiful panels that I bring back from Houston to Paris that was my one of my major acquisition crazy thing and do you keep a reserve, some money always available in case you need to make now we are making much more business so we own our real estate.

39:20We own a huge collection. So the bank, we have kind of a big amount of assets. So the bank are easy with us because they follow us since 30 years and they know we are a solid business. It's easy now. And have you been approached by investors? Yes, many times. And? I refuse. You don't want to? No, I don't know. I would like to keep independent and I will feel more confident. and I don't need them to develop my business. I can do it. I don't need money from the other one. For the moment, maybe it's stupid. Maybe I will change my mind. I don't know. Private equity. Yes, I know there is plenty of, in France, a group who are launched by private equity, but I don't think it's a good idea.