Michael Diaz-Griffith on authenticity and class in the design industry

0:02Michael Diaz-Griffith:This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week, I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Michael Diaz-Griffith, the CEO of the Design Leadership Network. Michael's background is in the world of antiques. He was the executive director of the Sir John Soans Museum Foundation, and has held various positions at the Winter Show and authored a book on the rise of young collectors, the New Antiquarians. Now he runs one of the design industry's key professional organizations, dedicated to connecting designers, architects, and business leaders through education and events.

0:50Michael Diaz-Griffith:I spoke with Michael about the challenge and opportunities that lie ahead in 2026, class issues in design, and why his goal is to show up more and more as himself.

1:29Michael Diaz-Griffith:team find just the right rug for your project. Join Ernesta's exclusive trade program to get dedicated support with everything from curating samples to generating quotes and producing renderings. Apply for membership today at ernesta.com slash boh. And now on with the show. I'm eager to share a little bit about the Design Leadership Network and remind our audience what it's all about, what your mission is, and how long you've been there and been involved.

2:03Dennis Scully:Terrific. Yeah. This is coming up on my fourth year with the DLN. So it's been a nice stretch. And as with any organization that is serious and has a real mission, it takes some time to make your imprint as a leader. But I feel good now that we've really been able over the past couple of years to navigate a very complex design industry landscape and I think deliver a lot of value to our members and partners.

2:34Michael Diaz-Griffith:I know that my former boss, Peter Salek, the founder of the Design Leadership Network, I know that he grew increasingly comfortable with you and your leadership and finally made you the CEO and really handed the reins over to you. And I wonder, to your point about how long it takes to sort of really make an impression. I wonder what your impression was of the organization when you first got there and what you've been trying to not necessarily change, but perhaps grow and help develop since you've had more control now.

3:13Dennis Scully:You know, I always view this in terms of an organization's responsibility to keep pace with the moment, right? So the DLN that I encountered when I joined or the one that I knew about when I was in the design world before joining was the DLN of its time, right? Whether that's 2020 or 2018 or 2010. So the organization we need to be now is different from the organization we needed to be in 2020. And that's not really a DLN issue. That's a world issue. That's a design industry issue. And so, you know, internally, I can say in terms of strategic direction, it has been important for me to emphasize small group gatherings, for example, because when I joined, there was an impression that we were large compared to the size we had been in the past.

4:06Dennis Scully:But when your signal event in the year is this large, almost Congress for the industry, then that's the impression that someone who only attends the summit might take home with them. And that's legitimate. So, you know, it's all the more important in that moment to emphasize, hey, we have dozens and dozens and dozens of other events throughout the year that are very intimate and small scale. And at the end of the day, for me, the question is, what is the equivalent of that now? And over the past year, we've had really intensive conversations in the DLN about tariffs, as have you, for example. and it's not as if we had the answers, right?

4:54Dennis Scully:Rarely do we have the answers. It's about, in our case, convening the conversation as opposed to a context where there's an expert and an audience. So much of the conversation that we facilitate is peer-to-peer. And so it's about navigating through challenges with each other. And I think that is more important than ever for a lot of reasons, But the main one is just that we face so much uncertainty in the realm of not only tariffs, of course, but I think much more prominently in the context of changing technology and the changing society that we inhabit as a result of that changing technology.

5:37Dennis Scully:I'm talking, of course, about AI. And no one has the answers, but we each have clues. And so any gathering, any communication that we can mount that will help us to assemble those clues, think together through them, and to derive conclusions that help us sort of navigate by dead reckoning to the next point that we can reach is positive. And I think a lot about in our past, we didn't message enough that this was a focus. And I think I mentioned this because I think it's a danger for our industry. The flashy stuff, the spectacle is always going to be more visible because we're in an imagistic and image driven world.

6:24Dennis Scully:but also we're in an image-driven industry and communicating largely through image-driven social media contexts, right? So Heidi Callier's job with Kendall Jenner is going to be very visible because it's gorgeous, it's successful, it's in AD, it went viral. It takes an extra type of effort to scratch the surface of that visual impression to talk about, you know, what was hard on that project, what the challenges were, what the lessons were. And I think it's that extra effort to kind of go deeper and to go behind the curtain that we're really good at. But I don't know that we've always talked about that enough.

7:15Dennis Scully:And so I certainly try to, because as you know, so well, Dennis, you can sit with the world's most successful designer. If they're really successful, they're going to have profound things to say about their failures, hard lessons they learned. And when they share those, maybe we can learn the lesson faster and not have to endure the suffering they did. So, you know, sharing that we're really about accompanying people on that path and helping to crack open those conversations is something that I do want to emphasize. And I would just say beyond the DLN and our practices as professionals in a digital world, connecting to community, to other individuals in a really authentic way, to understanding why we're in a room, what's it for, what are we going to get a value from this use of our time?

8:15Dennis Scully:That's always so important now. But I think today, as you know so well, people are much more focused on navigating toward an individual notion of success than just in being seen as professional or as an executive. So I can't ask you to come into a DLN room so that you feel more like a business executive. It might be that you hate that, actually. If we brought Naz Nazawa on here right now, I don't think she needs to feel validated by wearing a certain kind of you know, a business form of business dress, her goals, her dreams, her aspirations really relate to her creative practice, I think. And so letting people know, okay, that is the journey we want to be on with you.

9:05Dennis Scully:It feels important. And that's what that's what I really care about most. And I see that as something we all have to do, you know, whether we're in organizations that support it or not.

9:17Michael Diaz-Griffith:You mentioned social media and people's strategies. And one of the things that I've been struck by in recent months has been a series of conversations with people. And David Netto in our year-end predictions episode alluded to the fact that some people seem to be coming into the industry more as performers and people who can come across very effectively on social media. And I've had conversations with many very big name designers who have expressed a level of concern about what appears to be this ever increasing expectation that designers will also be performers or that they have to capture your attention in a different way beyond just their work speaking for itself.

10:09Michael Diaz-Griffith:And I wonder what conversations you've had with people about that and even how you think about that whole aspect of this, because it is really showing up in our world in a meaningful way.

10:21Dennis Scully:Absolutely. As an individual, I think we're all contending with this across not only professional practices, but just as people with hobbies and interests. You know the real deal, and you know fakery and performance. if you're interested in something. And I think it's really disturbing to see certain lines become blurred because of social media. I'm confident that this person is not a business of home listeners. So I'm going to say this and we're going to gossip for a second.

10:55Michael Diaz-Griffith:Excellent.

10:56Dennis Scully:Someone just followed me on Instagram and their bio read, editor of curated details. So I know for certain that they're not an editor. I know for certain they're not a curator. And I know for certain that they're not a designer in the way you and I would mean, because I don't think details is the formal category that we would tend to recognize as the most important one in the design context. So is there reason to be frustrated with that?

11:28Michael Diaz-Griffith:Yes.

11:28Dennis Scully:I think we should all be very concerned about the sort of, I almost want to say, breakdown of meaning-making in language when we stop being serious about professional categories, when we stop being serious about disciplines and about discipline itself, such that someone performing design or performing curation or performing anything has the more visible platform than those who are really doing the hard work. of pursuing the discipline with all of its rigor and challenges. Ben Davis, the art critic, wrote an essay over the summer about the sort of slurification of mediums that I think is interesting.

12:11Dennis Scully:And it spoke to something that I discuss a lot in my household, which is that, you know, a brilliant art critic can feel right now that her words are not being read by as many people. I mean, that's just a fact, in part because we're all so attached to video-based content. And I won't name names, but I've seen people in other arenas try to adapt to video in a fairly unsuccessful way. And it's sort of heartbreaking because if someone's a brilliant writer, should they have to become a video-based performer? They absolutely shouldn't. And I mean, I'm a writer myself, and I respect writing as much as any discipline, including design.

12:58Dennis Scully:And it deserves its own arena and its own respect as a discipline. And there's so much to be gained from taking writing seriously and believing in the profundity and the demands of the written word. Not as a form of snobbery, but as a form of meaning-making and exploration and communication. And there's a very, very rich opportunity for people who are deep thinkers, who are critical thinkers, who are dedicated to their discipline, including in design, but who are also successful performers, I guess, in audio-visual contexts. You are one of those people, Mr. Scully. And I would say that for those who want to pursue success in a wide arena or who seek to have a large audience, that's just going to become one of the aspects of a successful skill set that has to be either an inborn talent or something you train towards.

14:07Dennis Scully:I don't think that's a tragedy. I think it's just another thing that we're having to adapt to. But my concern is how can we face that reality, be good on video, speak cogently on the podcast, but make sure we do so in a way that has a lot of integrity and that keeps our discipline and our seriousness intact so we don't just disintegrate into nothing. That is the question of our age. And so I have to believe that there will be rewards for those who bring integrity to this hypervisual realm. And I think that for those who are considering themselves younger, we'll let people self-identify in their age brackets.

14:55Dennis Scully:But for those who are really concerned with cultivating their career well into the future, it probably is important to think about how to communicate through what we used to call new media, but it's now just media. I'll add one final note, and I say this as someone who comes from a background of rural poverty in Alabama. There are other barriers to entry in the design conversation, including class.

15:23Michael Diaz-Griffith:This has been an industry with a lot of snobbery and a lot of demands in terms of people's

15:30Dennis Scully:self-presentation, for example, for a long time. There are always artificial parameters that condition who gets to be a designer, who gets to be a successful designer in their period. And so I just want to acknowledge that while this focus on video in particular represents a new set of conditions that designers have to navigate, there have always been conditions. and I think David would be the first person to acknowledge that because he's iconoclastic. And I often think about this because there are a lot of rooms that I've been in that I would not have been able to access a few decades ago. And I think it's just something to consider.

16:14Dennis Scully:There are trade-offs as we advance into the future and there are negatives and there are positives to having a sort of, let's call it a more open field. Because unfortunately, in this case, that's the problem, right? People are getting to call themselves designers who really aren't. There's a sort of openness in our society at the moment that allows for a lot of self-definition and almost play acting. But let's hope that we can do everything possible to support the people who have a lot of integrity, whatever their background, whatever their talents, and who take this business seriously. And I have to believe that those people will be the victors in the battle for attention.

16:59Michael Diaz-Griffith:Well, and to your point, on the one hand, I don't want this to become a barrier, that if you don't have the ability to sell yourself on social media effectively, that somehow you are not going to be recognized as being as talented or as gifted as somebody else. But I also, this is an industry that has remarkably low barriers in many ways. So many people can wander into this industry and suddenly become, and whether they call themselves a designer or a decorator or that whole debate, people can come into this industry and they can get a great big social media following and they can have a voice and suddenly they're on this list and that list, and they're given all of the recognition and or support that makes you think that they must almost be part of the establishment all of a sudden.

17:56Michael Diaz-Griffith:And I think to your point, many in the establishment are a little bit uncomfortable with one's ability to perform being the sole reason that your work is getting attention.

18:09Dennis Scully:No, it's true. And when I think about factors that can stabilize this dynamic, I just continue to come back to the word integrity. I mean, if someone takes design seriously at whatever scale, whether they're making objects and they're sort of falling under the banner of what we might call collectible design or contemporary design in the decorative arts context, whether they're an interior designer or decorator, term of choice to be discussed and debated. I do think you can tell, even when someone is quite new on the scene, whether they're in it for the right reasons. And I'm always interested in young and new talent.

18:56Dennis Scully:And for me, the sort of key parameter that I'm always looking at is, do they know why they're doing this? Are they in this because they have a vision that they want to execute and bring into our world? Are they doing this for their sheer love of a craft or of a discipline that's relevant? Are they doing this because there's something burning in them that they have to express? When I see that and I see a practice that is built around the integrity of having a purpose in your practice, I'm interested in that. And I want to nurture it and support it when someone is in it for social clout or popularity or, frankly, just for money.

19:50Dennis Scully:It causes my spidey senses to tingle. And I think we all probably feel that way. And one of the fun things about still engaging in the antiques world is that I get to talk a lot about authenticity. Hopefully not in a cringe way that the word authentic can invite from overuse on social media, but in the truer, deeper sense of the word. And, you know, I also think that we have to cast this gimlet eye on ourselves. It's easy to lose yourself in the swirl of social media and image making. And I've had very interesting conversations with people who are very critical of this low barrier to entry and social media stardom, but who will admit like, oh my God, for five years, I started chasing the lists or the audience.

20:45Dennis Scully:and sort of forgot why I loved this. And then they reclaimed that sense of purpose. And I feel we all have to do that all the time now. You know, you have to really keep yourself away from the edges that will carry you away from your truer, deeper sense of why you're doing what you're doing. So there are a lot of demands being placed on us, Dennis, by the moment we're in. And once again, we've returned to this idea of not really being able to take anything for granted.

21:18Michael Diaz-Griffith:We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Ernesta. Designers know that proportions make all the difference. And that difference starts with Ernesta. Find a custom-sized rug that elevates your vision when you join Ernesta's trade program. You'll receive dedicated one-on-one support, preferred pricing, and unlimited samples curated for your project. To apply for membership to Ernesta's trade program or to learn more, visit Ernesta.com slash B-O-H. And now, back to the show.

21:59Michael Diaz-Griffith:in coming back to the conversation about your impression of where the collective consciousness of the designers who come to the summit who participate with the design leadership network who you're whom you're having regular conversations with i wonder going into this new year we all acknowledge 2025 was pretty challenging and a lot of different reasons. And I don't see 2026 as being all that much easier from what I can see in the early days so far. A lot of new things are being thrown at us. And I'm wondering what your sense is of how the design community is feeling and how were they collectively making resolutions for the coming year?

22:52Michael Diaz-Griffith:What you think those might

22:53Dennis Scully:might be well i loved reading the other predictions um you know i think that more than predictions they were almost all a gut check on the zeitgeist i do think that my sort of aggregate sense of where the conversation is within the dln and the industry is that things are coming to a head around AI and this question of authenticity that we've been discussing throughout the conversation. We're going to see, I think, a couple of years where people really have to plant their stakes on one side of an emerging divide or the other. If we just take AI sort of efficiency tools, it's self-apparent that you can look at them as bringing efficiency to processes that are rooted in non-IA-based creative ideation or goals.

23:55Dennis Scully:So I'm a designer who loves Castang and high-tech design from the 80s, and I'm trying to make my mark, and everything I do is really synthetic and original, and my practice is still quite new, or I can't afford the number of junior designers I really need. So I'm going to use AI on the backend to speed up routine processes, to eliminate admin work, and maybe to create renderings based on really, really strong human-produced inputs. That's one side of the equation. And I think there are a thousand shades of nuance on it. It's the side that I think most of us would say we're on, where we're using AI instrumentally as a tool for supporting human-based creativity, right?

24:52Dennis Scully:That's one arena. I do think in the realm of these editors of curated details and their ilk, which include self-professed interior designers and even, quote, residential designers, you know, sort of quasi-architects, etc., will also see more and more and more slop, you know, to use the sort of word of the year. And I think that there could be rewards for those people, monetary rewards, not existential ones, in approaching work through a very successful uptake of AI to generate much, much more in terms of output or to garner a much larger audience because of the way they successfully manipulate AI to create a practice that looks larger.

25:47Dennis Scully:than it is or whatever. So I do think that we have to really think carefully about which side of that divide do I fall on? What are my priorities? What are my standards in my discipline as a creative? And if the answer is that the starting point has to be human creativity, that's going to define your practice and answer a lot of smaller questions that are going to be asked along the way as this technology becomes truly ubiquitous. And I think we're going to see, you know, a sort of even greater divide in terms of how people live out and express a creative practice. I think that we're going to continue to see that, you know, as a primary conversation in the creative professions.