Ruggable's 'overnight success' was a decade in the making

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is Geneva Bell, the founder of Ruggable. In recent years, Ruggable's machine washable rugs have become a bona fide hit product. But the company is anything but an overnight success. Geneva's story is an agonizing tale of false starts, setbacks, and roadblocks. It took almost a decade of effort to get Ruggable off the ground. Today it employs hundreds across three factories and drops regular collaborations with top designers like Martin Lawrence Bullard, Jonathan Adler, and Justina Blakeney.

0:50I spoke with Geneva about how she found the resilience to get through hard times, why reading memoirs beats looking at social media, and why there's more to success than just hard work.

1:09This podcast is sponsored by Four Hands. This fall, the highly celebrated Amber Lewis and Four Hands collection expands to over 450 pieces, with more of the approachable, forever cool styles you already know and love, plus all new pieces to add to your collection. Look for the reimagined bestsellers in new fabrics, finishes, and sizes, and new pieces featuring clean lines and fresh contemporary takes across living, dining, outdoor, and more. Explore the full collection at fourhands.com starting October 22nd, or shop the collection in person at Four Hands High Point Market Showroom October 26th through the 30th.

1:53This podcast is also sponsored by Surya, the trusted source for design-forward rugs, furniture, lighting, wall decor, and textiles. Backed by the highest stock rate in the industry, Surya helps designers execute projects flawlessly. For those heading to High Point Market, Surya invites you to explore hundreds of stunning new designs in their expansive, immersive flagship showroom, Showplace 4100. You can also visit Surya.com today to open a trade account and start exploring exciting product curations that were designed to inspire. And if you're coming to High Point Market, be sure and join me, Dennis Scully, and Business of Homes Executive Editor Fred Nikolaus as we host a live Thursday show from Syria's showroom.

2:42Syria's President Satya Tiwari will be on hand to share his plans for the company's future. You won't want to miss it. And now, on with the show. there's so much to discuss with with ruggable but i feel like we we have to get into the founder story and and all that you went through and so i don't know when you when you got your your finance degree and and you were coming out into the world uh cum laude and and whiz kid and in finance were you thinking the world's my oyster i'm gonna i'm gonna go and and tackle the business world? Yeah, kind of. I sped through college. I was very eager to get out into the world and make money and be successful.

3:24I completed my coursework in three years. But what I didn't understand is once I was out into the real world, that there were all these different options and there really wasn't a roadmap. I didn't really know. There would have been had I wanted to be an attorney or if I knew exactly what I wanted to do, but I really didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. I just knew I was good at math. I really didn't even think I was creative. And I loved math because there's a right or wrong answer. You can do this whole problem and you can think you're right, but you can double check in the back of the book.

3:56And I always, when I started to get into this creative world of being an entrepreneur, I always wish I could just look in the back of the book and see, was that the right decision that I just made? Yeah. So I've always loved working. I mean, my first job was at 15 and a half. I worked as a cashier at the guest store and the form shops in Las Vegas, which was a really cool mall at the time. And then I've been a receptionist, worked at a car dealership. And the cocktail waitressing was something that being from Las Vegas, you could always come back to and work cocktails in the summer. And that's what I did.

4:27I came home to Vegas at least twice in my 20s to regroup. And one of the interesting things, I learned something from every job. And one of the interesting things that I learned with the cocktail waitressing job is that everyone else around me was making more money than I was making. But I was working really hard. And I had busy sections and i was i thought my job was to deliver their drinks it's hot they want their drinks and i would just very orderly kind of like flow at mel's diner take the order and i'll go go back to the counter and hurry up and bring their like icy drinks back so they wouldn't be melting and at the end of the day all the other girls are making you know 500 and 600 to my 180 hard-earned dollars and i didn't even realize until years later when i just realized it all around about myself that I just need to be enjoying what I'm doing and have to be passionate about what I'm doing.

5:18And I have to really be fun to work with. And those girls were enjoying it more. They were getting to know everybody. They loved that we had visitors in town and they were chatting everybody up and telling them where they should go eat and giving them all these recommendations. And I was just racing to give them back their ice cold drink. But there's more to success than hard work. You have to really be passionate and you have to – being passionate almost helps you be in the right moment at the right time, if that makes sense. Did you become a more bubbly cocktail waitress and start getting bigger tips?

5:55And did you throw yourself into it or did you have to move on? I really wanted to leave Las Vegas and I went and I moved with my friends in Los Angeles. and I got a temp job. And during my temp job, I had time to look online. And at the time it was monster.com. So I went on monster.com and I found a job as a marketing assistant, but for whatever reason, I wasn't meant to do it. The job that I was able to get as a marketing assistant was for this company called Sebastian International, a very avant-garde, creative, fun, youthful hair care and cosmetic company in Southern California. So I ended up getting a job there and immediately just loved it.

6:38I had an amazing boss who's still a mentor to me today, who I adore. And I was so lucky to have her as my boss. She was the creative director. It went really well for the first three years because I was very passionate and I loved it. And I was promoted a couple of times and I was really in my groove. But then they were purchased by a huge company called Wella, which is a hair care company. Sure. And then everything changed and they were talking about moving it to Europe. and there was two of everybody for every department. And it really, the passion really affected how we operated, but ultimately had to start plotting my next step.

7:14And so I thought, you know, I'd love to learn more aspects of the business. So I'm in marketing right now. I'd love to understand, you know, what are they talking about? What are all the people, you know, in the C-suite talking about in these board meetings and what is operations, what are their goals? And you just really can't understand all aspects of a business unless you've kind of like worked at a really small company and seen it grow. So I had met a man at a convention that I went to for the cosmetics who did fragrances. And I knew that his company made the fragrance oils for top names like Dolce & Gabbana and these big designers.

7:52So I knew the quality of the fragrance oils were good. And my idea was to create a product that was less expensive for someone like me, who's just starting out, who's not making a lot of money, who can't spend over$100 on a bottle of perfume. So I did that, but I made a big mistake because I priced it at$35 retail, which was way too low. And I just wanted to give them the best possible deal possible. I didn't really understand profitability. I really didn't know what I was doing, but I was doing it. And I was able to create a product and get it launched and get it into 19 Nordstrom stores. Henry Bendel in New York and boutiques, all on like a$35 ,000 small business loan from Bank of America.

8:36So it was quite a feat, but it wasn't going to go anywhere. And it didn't go anywhere. I mean, if you think about it, if someone buys one fragrance, which it took six months to get into Nordstrom, if someone buys one fragrance, I'm maybe going to get$16. I mean, the unit economics just didn't work. I mean, you'd have to have a very high volume business to not have you know, high profitability. So I learned a lot from that. It was honestly sad and depressing for that not to work. You know, you go after your dreams and you're in your 20s. So you're really believing your dreams and, you know, you put your whole life into something and then you end up having debt as a result.

9:20So then I walked away and it's this whole concept of being able to just like file bankruptcy or move on or close your doors and move on really isn't true. I mean, you have to personally guarantee these loans. And to file bankruptcy, you even need a lawyer. I mean, this is a whole complicated process. So I just had to pay off that$35 ,000 loan somehow. So I just went back home again and tried to figure out what my next step was going to be. And that led to getting a real estate license and starting to work in what was a booming high-rise condo real estate market in Las Vegas. The only thing was that my timing wasn't great.

9:59The only problem with it was... The moment that I had my first job in this really exciting new high-rise project, Hurricane Katrina hit, and then just it never really caught momentum. And we didn't really know why, but then all of a sudden the bubble burst and then we knew why. So here is my good fortune again with having fabulous bosses. So I had a fabulous boss named Sarah who had worked for 10 years in the real estate industry. And she was laying in bed down and out. Neither of us had a job. And she was watching the Home Shopping Network and she was watching Joy Mangano. And if you don't know Joy Mangano, there's a movie about her called Joy with Jennifer Lawrence.

10:43But this is before the movie came out. So the movie came out years later. This is when she was being the person. that you got. Yes, this is when she was on air. And she was on air selling the Huggable Hanger, which you may not know what's called the Huggable Hanger, but the original velvet textured hanger that helps your clothes stay on the hanger, not slip off. So this was really brilliant. And my former boss and former business partner, I'll call her Sarah, she saw how brilliant it was, how this woman just reinvented this household stapleness, something that everybody needs. It's so kind of under the radar.

11:15And she just loved it, was so inspired. And she knew I had the product development background and a passion for being an entrepreneur. And she knew I was just trying to do real estate to try to pay off this debt and have another nest egg for whatever my next idea could be. So she came to me and she said, I have the money that I've made from before this all fell apart. I have some money at$50 ,000 I can invest in this. And I can get on air and sell, but I need you to come up with the product and to, I don't know, create the product. That was the part that she didn't know anything about. We started a company without even having any ideas.

11:53We named the company Product Bliss, with a tagline, where the tagline, making life easier one product at a time. So our idea is we're going to come out just like Joy Mangani. She has all these products. We're going to have all these products. So now we're just going through our lives thinking, what can I make better? What's a household staple that I could make better? And I thought about for just a hot second, I thought about a coffee cup that had a suction cup at the bottom so that you wouldn't spill your coffee in your desk. But then it just took a few minutes before I realized if you wanted to lift that coffee cup up to actually drink it, it would spot all over your face and everywhere.

12:28So we just kept trying to think of ideas and we couldn't think, we couldn't actually think of anything for a while. And she bumped into this guy who happened to work for the Home Shopping Network and it was like the serendipitous event. So she's in an elevator and she's like, you're never going to believe this. I met this guy and he works for HSN. And, you know, he's one of these people, you know, third party people who helps you get on air. And I told him we were going to send him an idea. And we didn't have an idea. But she's like, but these shoes that I found when I was traveling, they're the most comfortable shoes.

12:56Like maybe we could just try to sell these shoes. So we sent him a pair of used shoes. And he just came back to us and said, I think you guys are great. We'd love to work for you, but come up with a good idea. Well, and so help me make the leap from the suction cup coffee holder, the secondhand shoes, and the ruggable concept that was to come. Yeah. Well, I think what's so interesting about it is for weeks I was trying to think of something and I ended up needing to get a full-time job. So I had a full-time job and I'm back in that LA traffic again on a Friday and the traffic's terrible. And I get home and I had a studio apartment at the time with white carpet and white walls and it was kind of depressing.

13:41So I wanted to add some color. So I had really invested$300 on a five by seven rug and I was living by myself. It was hard to get it in the car. It was hard to get it. It was a big ordeal to get this rug laid down the floor and have it, but it was really great. And it added some color into the apartment. When I came home on one of those Fridays, my dog, just within a week of getting that brand new rug, had peed on it. So I tried to go out and buy a miracle carpet cleaner. I tried DIY techniques with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda. And I remember when I I was scrubbing on the floor, trying to scrub this smell out.

14:20And I looked to my right and I saw my bed, because again, I'm in a studio apartment. I see my bed and I see the comforter and the blankets on it and how large they are, but that they fit in a home washing machine. And this kind of goes into my brain at the same time that I realized that my mom, who's a dog lover, who at the time had started rescuing dogs and had too many dogs, over 10 dogs. And she was using, this is kind of gross, but this kind of plays into the story, but she was using pee pads for a long time. And then all of a sudden it's a lot of waste of plastic and it's expensive to keep buying these basically diapers over and over again.

14:58So she started putting towels down on the ground and the dogs would pee on the towels if they had to pee in the house, because there are a lot of small dogs. And I'm thinking at first at how gross that is, but then she's washing them and the towels are coming out clean with all the boosters that we have now. we've got all these oxygen boosters and great washing machines and great detergents so that all kind of came together in my head and that was the aha moment of oh my gosh i just need to be able the drug should be able to be separated so i could take this decorative fabric portion off and then i know that i can bunch that up and put it in the home washing machine and then it's going to get thoroughly cleaned you know you're not gonna have a bunch of stuff stuck at the base of like carpet fibers that you just can't thoroughly clean no matter what you're doing But that's how it should be.

15:44And it should be as easy to wash as your bedding and your towels. And so I called Sarah and I said, what do you think? And she said, oh my God, I love it. And what I love most about it is you can change out the cover. You can get multiple covers and you can change it out for seasons and holidays. So she loved that aspect of it. For me, I always loved just the big rug because it's such an investment to be able to just know that you're buying this rug that's a lot of money and that you're going to be okay with dogs and kids and people coming over and spilling stuff. It's not going to ruin your rug.

16:17And so take me from, so you've shared this concept with a bunch of people and everyone says, yes, we do need this. We would love this, but you have no idea how this can be made and right. And all of the, all of the things involved. So tell me, so you and Sarah decide, okay, this is it. This is idea we're going to try and make happen. Yes. Yeah. So it wasn't long before we realized, okay, this is the right idea. And I just started with a yoga mat and Velcro that I purchased at Home Depot and fabric that I purchased at the local fabric store. And I created the first prototype was basically a yoga mat with Velcro all around the perimeter of the yoga mat with a corresponding cover.

17:01And what I noticed was that it was definitely going to be washable, but it wasn't going to be beautiful. And that was going to be a problem. You try everything and you have to just keep trying. So if you don't keep going in those hard moments, I think you don't get to the breakthrough.

17:23We're taking a quick break to highlight the exciting return of Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams as the newest member of the Surya family of brands. Well known and beloved for its sustainably crafted American-made upholstery with limitless customization, Mitchell Gold and Bob Williams is back and better than ever. The iconic brand will make its debut at High Point Market with signature upholstered pieces, a fresh selection of new frames in luxurious fabrics and leathers, and a stunning assortment of case goods. And now, back to the show.

18:02and give us a sense of how long this process is is taking and what's the time period that we're talking about oh so it was a long time period so 2008 was when we came up with the idea and having a patentable idea the upside was that it really helped us in the beginning i think it really protected us but it also made it really difficult because it was something that had never been done before. And you do hear a lot of, this isn't possible, or we can't do it. And even with that, and even if you keep pushing on it and keep working on it, it does take a long time. So from 2008 until about 2010, it takes us to even have a working prototype.

18:42So it's two years. If you kind of try to bring that down to what that feels like on a day-to-day basis is that you've put a package together, you've sent it out to a supplier, you've waited six weeks or eight weeks for them to work on it and get back to you. And then you finally get that sample back and then you wash it and it falls apart instantly, you know, and just kind of going through that process over and over again for, you know, two to three years. It's hard. It's hard to be patient like that, but we believed in the product and we just kept moving forward. And then we went into the next stage of difficulty, which was, okay, this could work.

19:15We can get these two pieces to cling together the way that they need to but now how are we going to make good designs and at the time you didn't there wasn't digital printing technology on fabric so we went did woven fabrics but the issue with woven fabrics is number one we're making fabric not rug so it's not a rug machine where they can make the border and the center medallion the fab machines don't work like that they have different types of weaves that they can do and that's it so we ended up doing just basic colors So we just did like a tonal taupe, which was actually sold pretty well. And then we did, you know, a red and a lime green, which admittedly was not a good choice.

19:57Neither Sarah or I were interior designers, just so you know. So neither of us had a textile background. This is kind of, you can start to get the feel of why this took so long to take off. So, you know, we finally get everything together and we were able to secure a licensing deal because we had a patent pending. So we're able to get a partner to come on and really help us. And we jumped through all the hoops for six months to get on the home shopping network. This was why we did it. This is where it was going to sell. This is the dream coming true. Here we go. This is the dream coming true. And it came down to 11 minutes at the end of the hour.

20:33And we go on and I did it a couple of times. She did it a couple of times and it doesn't sell very well. The price wasn't right. the designs didn't wow anyone or didn't they weren't you know compelling okay that was really difficult because that was that was our goal and so you didn't have to ask yourself okay what are we gonna do now for years people were telling us you know you should go on shark tank you should go on shark tank why aren't you on shark tank you should try shark tank i heard it thousands of times and we wanted to go on shark tank but we were always in these licensing deals So we were already in deals that we were hoping that were actually really good.

21:13The second one was one of the biggest carpeted rug manufacturers in the US. And one of the amazing things about having a patented product or patent pending product, which we did get the patent right before this deal closed. And that was contingent on the deal closing. But now we had a patented product. The amazing thing is that you can license it to a big company. They can do it for you. And then you just collect royalty checks. and you just can sit back and drink pina coladas and read books on the beach. But the downside is that they can take your technology and they own it now and they can have it sit on a shelf until they kind of want to deal with it.

21:50And so we basically lost about two to three years in that whole process and nothing ever happened. And that's what they did? They just took it and did nothing with it? No, they were always going to be presenting, you know, next month, next month, next month, we're going to present to Bed Bath & Beyond. Nothing ever happened. So we ended up getting that license back. From 2008 to 2014, we were basically stuck in licensing deals and we were relying on them to do it. And we also had, if it wasn't the Home Shopping Network, our main focus was big box retailers. I mean, that was, I had it backwards.

22:30I think a lot of us had it backwards. I was thinking, we need to get into these big box retailers to make money so that we can invest it on ruggable.com and then build the business even more on ruggable.com. But first, the money needs to come from sales from big box retail. And it didn't work that way. So, and then unfortunately, the partnership between Sarah and I ultimately came to an end because it was such a long, it really was such a short story to tell now, but it was a very hard, long journey that just wasn't working out. And she ultimately just wanted to go in a different direction. So, but I didn't want to give up on it.

23:07And I just still believe in the product and I was super passionate about it. And so then what I did was I ended up getting into a third licensing deal, but I learned from my mistakes and I didn't give them an exclusive license. okay i said you can have the license for just getting into bed box retailers i said but i'm going to keep ruggable.com and i'm going to keep designer collections and you know a baby line i just wanted something to be able to do if they were stalled or not doing anything and they worked so hard and they were you know ended up getting it on websites but no one oh we did do one lows test okay so lows we did have one buyer who tested our product in lows so we were able to get into about maybe 50 lows for a test.

23:52And again, I have a picture of myself next to the POP display smiling, but it just didn't sell well enough. We did get people calling though on their customer service line and asking where could they buy another one? So you had these one or two people, these early adopters who were like, this is really cool. Where can I get another one? That plateaued a little bit, that licensing deal plateaued a little bit, kind of two years in. And I just thought, well, gosh, I'm going to have to do this myself. And I'm going to have to figure out how to do this. So I redid the Ruggable website to make it now based on Shopify, which is the best platform to build a website on.

24:30So that was working. And I was starting to get with PR and SEO, more and more activity on the website, but not enough. And I was kind of having a series of meltdowns, obviously, through all of these years. How were you bouncing back? How were you finding the resilience to come? I mean, this is years of your life, right? And you believe in this product, but it just keeps not happening. And I mean, how did you, seriously? You can only work so hard. Sometimes you just have to take a step back. And sometimes when you are relaxed or when you do take a break and you go start talking to friends, you come up with different ideas.

25:11Just taking time off is good. But I would always fire back because I believed in the product. And it was really, to be honest, the only thing I had going. Because when you don't have a resume anymore, because now you've been an entrepreneur for all these years. right i still have debt by the way so i may have paid off the 35 000 at some point but then now when i bought out my business partner i took on all the debt of the business and it was over i think i had almost 200 000 in debt really guaranteed yeah and now i'm almost now i'm almost 40 years old so i have no net worth i have a negative 200 000 net worth no husband no children I really sacrificed everything.