Steven Volpe on what 'formal' means today

0:03This is Business of Home. I'm your host, Dennis Scully. Every week I'll be speaking with leaders and innovators from all corners of the home industry. My guest this week is interior designer Steven Volpe. Steven is based in San Francisco, but his work has an international sensibility, shaped in part by the four years he spent in Paris as a young man, absorbing the city's architecture and design. Today he runs a team of 20 and takes on projects around the world. His serene, timeless work is widely published and he's a regular presence on the AD100. I spoke with Stephen about how youthful confidence helped him build his career, why he likes having owner's reps on the job site, and how formality has changed but not disappeared from the home.

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2:45And I wonder, I want to hear a little bit about how you have navigated it and where you got an early sense of where this all might take you. Because I know fashion and earlier interests were where you were focused first. Yes. During the course of my career, the craft itself has changed. changed how interior design is looked at, how offices are run. And it was at the onset of my career, a looser thing. It was still a serious business, but if I were going to liken it to stylistically how houses have evolved, where the decorators that I started to work for, who started their careers decades and decades before, a house was a different animal.

3:44And it was really more about decoration. And there was a hierarchy to the rooms in which were being done, whether it was the living room or the primary bedroom. But kitchens and other rooms did not have the importance that they do now, for example. And it's the same, I think, you know, it's a much bigger business with bigger budgets and more people involved. And so there's a lot more to track. And I've learned over the course of my career how to deal with that and how to put teams together that make sense for me and for my clients, as I think a lot of other firms have. I think I might have seen more than some other firms because I started earlier.

4:41But I would say that that's really given me the ability to look at the challenges and contemplate how each project was going to evolve and differentiate itself from another project, which I think is invaluable. Well, that's so interesting. And I hadn't thought of looking through the lens of even just how the priorities of the house itself have changed so much over the years. But it sounds as if you also feel as if some of the decorators that you worked with early on and who had a tremendous impact on you, and I want to talk about them, it sounds like they ran a very different kind of business.

5:28beyond just sort of stylistically, perhaps. It sounds like, and I don't know if things just felt looser or if early day decorators had more control than they do today or how you perceive it, but tell me how you think about it. Well, I mean, when I started, one of my mentors who I really respected a lot, Tony Hale, when I worked for him, had a small office above his garage on Green Street in San Francisco that was maybe 250 square feet with baskets of samples and four desks. And his partner, Chuck Posey, did most of the accounting. And there were two assistants, including myself. And Tony would come in late morning in a coat and tie and kind of direct.

6:27And it was just a different animal. I think decorators in the day had more power over their clients. More power over their clients. Over their clients. Yes, I think so. And I think it was a much more opaque profession. And then Tony's houseman would bring, for example, at lunch, a tray laid with sterling in beautiful China with shrimp toast, one of his favorite dishes to eat. And you know, that's just not the way of the world anymore. That's not the staff lunch anymore? Wait. No, no, no. It's definitely not. I eat in 10 minutes. Often at your desk. Always. Most often. 90 % of the time. And no sterling silver platter is being brought out.

7:27But I wonder, take me back to the early days for you and help me. Part of what I want to understand is both the formation of your taste and eye and how you began to see the world. And I don't know what the most meaningful early influences were for you. I know you've shared with me, you had a very stylish mother who was reading W and Vogue and certainly had a style that clearly you must have picked up on. But tell me. Well, I think that's true. I mean, you know, as I've said before, fashion was where my interest really was at the time. And, you know, I decided to study fashion and started my classes in San Francisco and was also intrigued by interiors.

8:28At a certain point, maybe two years into school, I had the opportunity to work with a well-known designer in San Francisco called Tony Machado. And I was working in his office and really was taken with the craft of interior design. And very quickly decided that I was good at it. Or at least I thought I was good. I will go back and say, you know, the one thing that is why I'm sitting where I'm sitting is the arrogance of youth. And if, you know, because I really didn't know what I was doing then, but felt like I had a certain taste level. And very quickly, other designers asked if I would work with them.

9:23So you got real affirmation from others. I got real affirmation. At one point, I remember doing a decorator showcase. I was working with a decorator called Eleanor Ford at the time. I was kind of working with a few of them part-time, but we were doing a decorator showcase. And I was on my hands and knees painting a sisal rug and looked over my shoulder. And Michael Taylor was just looking at me, looking at the room, and kind of engaged me and just kind of said, you've got it, kid. Wow. Oh. And you knew who he was and you knew how much that meant at the time? Yes, I did. So that's a pretty great feeling.

10:08So that only led to further arrogance, I'm assuming. You know, a bit, a bit. Right. You know, I was very proud of the room I had just done. And what was the room you had done? What was this? It was sort of a morning room and I was very passionate and worked very hard on it. And it kind of had a new spirit, I felt, than what I thought other decorators were doing. And Eleanor was very kind and let me kind of explore my vision. And I remember, you know, after days of doing the installation and we had gotten everything right, the day of the opening, she brought a few accessories in and laid one down.

10:58and I think it was a South American kind of doll and put it on the cocktail table and I was horrified and I said I don't like that there I said it doesn't belong there and she said just just leave it I've given you full reign and the room needs something to throw it off and she left to go get changed and um i came back in um hours later i had my mother on my arm it was the opening event and eleanor was sitting in one of the chairs by the fireplace talking to someone and she kind of called me over with her finger just with a big smile on her face and i bent down and she was like, you were so right, but so wrong.

11:47Really? She did. She did. She was just giving me a bad time, but it was just kind of a moment that I will never forget. It gave me pause with my arrogance. So in other words, she was acknowledging the design choice. Yes, she was acknowledging. Yes, but also she felt like, who were you to tell her? Somewhat, yes. Interesting. Well, and so it sounds like that was meaningful and you... It was. I mean, you know, yeah. It was part of my learning curve, for sure. Well, so tell me more about your learning curve and what informed you and where you went from there? Well, I, at that point, started to take on a few clients.

12:38And I, after that, or toward the tail end of it, I had the opportunity to go to Paris for a period of time and chose to do that rather than continuing to work in San Francisco. And And when I arrived in Paris, I met an architect who had been sent to Paris by Raymond Lowy. And that was really an education that I could not have bought. It was definitely eye-opening. So after three years of doing that and then coming back to California and very quickly got another project. and um i had a new a new look on on on my craft and what what design was but it sounds as if it helped to plant the seed for what you wanted or perhaps imagined your future firm to to look like is that accurate yes absolutely and you know the the irony is that you know the future firm the one that I have now didn't just happen.

13:56It wasn't just a conscious decision to, this is the firm I want, this is the firm I got. It took years of working to actually get the firm that I really wanted, that I have today. And let's talk about that. So let's talk about at what point, first of all, at what point do you decide to really go off on your own and start a firm? And was there something that prompted that? For me, it was simply that I was given a large project upon my return to California that I had to quickly cobble together a few people to help me. And before I knew it, I had a small office. I was very, very lucky at an early age to be given a project of that scale.

14:52And how old were you at the time when all of this was starting to happen for you? 28. 28, so you're young. Yes, yes. So I imagine, even though you might have thought you thought it through, there was so much - No, I didn't. Okay. I really didn't. Okay. I look back on it and it's a project I was proud of when I completed it. And what was it exactly? What was the project? It was a large apartment in a building here in San Francisco called the Brocco Bank. Okay. And it was a storied building. And it was a couple who were well-known in San Francisco and had gone through several major decorators at the time.

15:39I remember being very nervous and going in and taking a tour of the apartments and getting to know them. And we went to lunch and we went back to their apartments and they said, okay, we'd like to hire you. How much are you going to charge? And I remember just being on the spot and thinking of a number. And so I said that number, not knowing where I got it, Not knowing where that came from or anything. Where it came from. And, you know, they said, excuse us. And I'm sure they went into the hallway and just laughed at how low that was.

16:25They thought, this is great. We've just saved so much money. We've just saved so much money. Hiring this young Stephen. Right. Right. So I don't think they were out of the room for five minutes before they came back in and said, you're hired. Well, so it sounds like it was a learning experience on so many levels. For all of us. Right. But it really was. It really was. And I honor it. I mean, you know, I look back with fond memories of those times. But you end up with this amazing, no doubt, project that you're wildly proud of. And I assume came off terribly well. and leads to good things in the future.

17:08And you think, I really need to reprice and figure out how - I very quickly recalibrated, recalculated my fee structure. Right. The next project was, yes.

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18:05At what point, I guess I'm wondering, if there was a point where you thought about the real structure that you wanted to create for your firm and the number of people you wanted to have or how you wanted to manage it? I think early on, I really wanted to keep the business small and still kind of try to keep it on the smaller side just for my own comfort. But your notion of how big a firm you wanted to have changed quite a bit too, because - It did. I mean, you know, it had to, just because of the number of projects that I was doing. It was not plausible to stay as small as I once was. And how big is the firm today, roughly?

18:52Today, we're about 20. Okay. And you wish it was a little bit more? Well, we're hiring right now. Okay. And it's challenging to find and put together teams where everyone who's being hired is actually fulfilling what it is that needs to be done and what they've been brought on to do. And so it's difficult finding those people, and especially here in San Francisco. I have a small office in New York where it seems to be easier to find people in New York. And we're in real time thinking about growing the office in New York. Interesting. Okay. And in part because it's easier to hire there? Actually, yes, yes, yes.

19:38Okay. And it's the work that we do on the East Coast and then in Europe. And it's almost a better home base. Yeah. So the number of people on staff grew quite a bit. But in part, I sense, because I get the feeling that you like to have a certain number of projects going at any given time. Yes, absolutely. And you're going to ask me what that number is. No, no, no. I mean, you can tell me what number that is. I mean, I just, I'm so curious because it's interesting to me that you went from, and as one often does in the early days, not knowing for certain when the projects would come in or if they would.

20:18And I get the sense that at some point, your success, your reputation, whatever it was, all of that probably led to a fairly steady stream of projects for you where you could start to say, okay, now I know I want to do, and again, you fill in the number. Do I want to do five projects a year, 10 projects a year? How many do you juggle over there, Stephen? Right. It's between five and 10. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. Depending on the scale, the size, the location, the complexity, that sort of dictates the number of projects that we are able to take on. And the desire to have that many going at any given time, what is that about for you?

21:01It's challenging. And again, it's about having created really strong teams. You know, they're one, they're very serious projects and location can be difficult. So it's kind of keeping track of how those systems work, how the teams are working and navigating all of that in real time. And usually projects are in different places at different times. Was there a moment that you were able to let go of more yourself? I mean, I'm wondering about the level of involvement and the level of engagement that you want to have in every project. I'm wondering how deep it goes now that you have quite a team. Right.

21:53I think that I am quite involved in most of our projects. So I hope I'm not a micromanager. I think I probably am a bit, but I try and I really do have a great team, but I am involved. I'm not going to lie. I'm involved with almost every project. I'm sure some projects get a little bit more of me, but all projects get me. And is that an expectation that clients still have today? Yes, I think so. Yes. At least my clients do. I'm not sure that that's the same for every firm, but it is with my clients. And earlier you mentioned that one of the things that feels very different today is the number of people involved in a project.

22:45And especially on the client side, at an event recently, a big contractor in New York came up to me and said, you need to be talking more about client offices and about all the different layers of people that have gotten involved in projects and the new complexity that that seems to bring to the process. And I'm wondering how that has shown up in your world. You have quite well-to-do clients, and so I'm imagining they have lots of representatives. Yeah. I mean, to find yourself at a presentation with clients and having two or three assistants or their rep and just the number of people you're presenting to or trying to move information through is daunting sometimes.

23:36So, so that's a, that's a new challenge that you, that you may or may not be liking a great deal. No, I mean, I, I, I, it doesn't really bother me. I mean, I feel pretty confident in, in, in how we make our presentations and what we're presenting that, that it's okay. There's nothing to hide. It, it sometimes helps with the process because, you know, a client can be very busy and it may be really hard for them to keep track of everything that's being spoken about or presented that their assistants or whatever teams that they've assembled, it just helps us. And we can move through things faster.

24:19It just depends. 10 or 15 years ago, when clients really started wanting owner's reps, it was something that I kind of frowned upon or I didn't really know how that process would work or felt like it was, you know, we weren't being trusted or what have you. But very quickly, very quickly, I realized that these kind of added layers of management were ones that really helped us and helped the project. So I started to, when I would get these bigger projects, request that there was a client's rep, knowing that it would help the process. Interesting. So what turned out to be helpful? Just fee structures, managements of the entirety of the teams, um, contracts, just not always having to be the one that had to explain everything to a client, but had an independent third party who could manage the contractor or manage other subs better than we were able to.

25:38And so it made the, the, the process flow in a way that it, It was better for everyone involved. And at the end, everyone was happy and less finger pointing. Okay. So it's not all bad. It's just another level of complexity. Tell me about the, you started the conversation by talking about how some of the priorities around the house itself have changed. What are the priorities with your clients today that you feel have shifted since the early days of your career and even when you were working with others? What's different? I think how houses are used are different. Perhaps at the onset of my career, houses were built for entertaining and a very specific kind of more formal entertainment where today I think houses have to function in a multitude of ways.

26:44that they still have to be for entertaining, but different usage for the family itself. You know, for kids, playrooms are, I think, perhaps different than they might have been 30 years ago. Just the kind of rooms that people give more importance to. Often houses, too, are for specific periods of time where they're summer houses or they're winter houses or they're you know so so they have to take on that kind of you know whether it's for skiing or or whether it's uh for beach or whether it's you know pied-a-terra in a city it's just they're they're more specific and and that's part of the pleasure of what I do.

27:38It's really hyper-tailored to a specific family. And we really try to get to know who they are, what their likes, dislikes, how they entertain, who they entertain. And that's part of what I thrive on is creating something that's unique. And it's hard because to do that is really time consuming. And then, you know, it's sort of having to learn what is okay to repeat and what's not okay to repeat and what's worthy of further exploration. Because obviously I can't create a really amazing upholstery design for every project. There's so much that goes into the development of a piece of upholstery, getting it to sit just right, getting all of the details.

28:45It's impossible. So it's kind of, how many times can we use this sofa before we kind of put it to bed or give it a rest? Or, you know, it's that kind of thing that I'm constantly trying to, in my mind, work out so that it feels like it's growing, it's evolving, yet I'm not making myself entirely crazy. But very much, there's not a look. There's not, oh, I'm going to Stephen Vole because I know he's going to give me this kind of living room look or this kind of feel. You know, I might disagree a little bit because I think people might go into a room I've done and and say, did Stephen Wolfe do this?

29:34Okay. And what do you think the giveaways would be for them? What do you think that they would observe that would tell them it was you, that you had been there? I stay away from trends as much as I can. I'm never slavish to, these are the colors of this year. This is, you know, it's like, and if I do see it, I go in an opposite direction because I really do want to create spaces that are hard to define, that are special, that when you're in them, they evoke something that is not of a period. But, you know, there's clearly something there that's intriguing and compelling, but it's It's not because it's followed any specific trends.

30:30And does the client set that pace? Do clients come to you and say, I need this, to your earlier reference, do I need this summer house to be ready for next summer? Or I mean, what do clients say? Well, usually it's not next summer. Usually you have a few summers because it takes a few years at least. so um the sooner we're brought on to work in a project and and most of the time we're there from the onset so we we start somewhere and we there's there's something that that helps define a room that that is acquired first we do renderings of course of what we think we want the room to to look like and oftentimes you know the renderings are good and then the clients get their heart set on.

31:20Well, where's that? You drew this. And it's like, well, we can't find that. So we found this or we found this. And it's just a weaving back and forth. And is that part of the double-edged sword of working with rendering sometimes is that clients take them very literally and wonder why in the end it doesn't look exactly like it did in the rendering you might've shared? Yeah. I mean, Surprisingly, the rooms do look kind of like the red rings. They do. And that is kind of an amazing thing, that our vision does come to fruition. There are tweaks. Sure. One chair may not be exactly like what we've started off.

32:05There will be deviations, but yet the overarching aesthetic that we envision comes to fruition, which is exciting. Yeah. So you've gotten it down to a pretty good science, it sounds like. We have. Yeah. You know, and it's more like quantum computing, I think, where it's kind of like, you know, there's chaos that is part of the equation.

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33:22That's Ernesta.com slash B-O-H. And now, back to the show.