The Thursday Show: A fresh round of tariff chaos. Plus: Alexa Hampton on 50 years of Kips Bay

25:01One thing I didn't realize is how much cabinetry is made in Canada. And a lot of designers rely on it. And it's, you know, if these tariffs affect Canada, then that will be very different than if they don't. So, so much of this really is in the details. But certainly, you know, the general consensus is that at the very high end, you know, your Henry Biltz, your Christopher Peacocks, even your, you know, your Plain English's imported of cabinetry, this won't really matter that much because, you know, the customer, the client who's shopping for that is already, you know, working with a domestic producer.

25:34In plain English's case, it's a European company or an English company, but they only have a 10 % tariff. So let's leave them aside. You know, they're just not as price sensitive. You know, they want what they want. And if it increases cost by a little bit, okay, so be it. But at the lower end, like the IKEA cabinetry and sort of the Home Depot level of cabinetry, this undoubtedly will raise prices. And because cabinets are expensive, it'll make, you know, building homes more expensive. And there's a lot of concern that this is only going to, you know, send inflation up and, you know, certainly not help our affordability crisis when it comes to housing.

26:04So, you know, it's a little bit of a mixed reaction depending on where you look in the industry. Absolutely. And if you look at the shares of Home Depot and Lowe's, they've been going a lot lower since this news came out because this is obviously a meaningful market for them. And they are a big, big seller of just a lot of vanities and cabinets and, of course, and lumber. So, I mean, it's very challenging for them. And again, unfortunately, it's the everyday consumer that seems likely to be the most impacted by this. I will say, though, however, you know, in speaking to, you know, this the CEO of Marsh, this cabinetry company in North Carolina, It was really interesting because, you know, sometimes we get this perception that, you know, nobody's really pushing for these tariffs because of the hesitation around them in the furniture industry.

26:56But, you know, I think back to, you know, when Alex Shuford was on the podcast and he was talking about how, you know, he thinks of his grandfather back in 19, you know, in the 90s or the 80s or whatever would have loved tariffs then, you know, protecting the case goods industry while there was still a case goods industry to protect. I'm sure would have been welcomed at the time. It's just that at this point, there's nothing left to save. And so, you know, the tariffs are more disruptive than helpful to a lot of furniture people. I think a lot of the cabinetry people feel like, okay, well, there is still something left to save.

27:26So we have to take, you know, these aggressive measures to try and keep it here in the US. So, you know, I'm sure there will be people who say that it's just protectionism. And I don't think there's any doubt that it will send up costs overall. But, you know, in speaking to this executive, it was really, you know, it was a reminder that there is a significant US manufacturing operation and it's worth thinking about that for sure. Yeah, I mean, and that's what tariffs are often used for is to protect a key industry. And so I certainly understand everybody in that part of the industry celebrating, although I noticed that some of the key organizations around kitchen and bath weren't exactly giving clear statements.

28:09Yes, well, I think because it's so complicated, Because of course, the dealers probably hate it because they're like, oh, well, you're going to make our prices go up. So I think you're referencing the NKBA, which put out a statement that was much more a little bit trying to not take sides and just talk about industry resilience overall. Because I'm sure there's all kinds of feelings at different parts of the market. Absolutely. And we talk about housing affordability a lot on the show. And I think you talk to the home builders and this doesn't help. And so, again, we'll see where this all shakes out.

28:40These are big numbers. They are. So we'll see if they ultimately end up being what really comes to market. But this does have the potential to have a meaningful impact. We've got to move on, Fred, because there's a controversial color that we have to discuss. Yeah, you thought those would have a meaningful impact. Exactly. Let's talk about gray. For House Beautiful, Janae McKenzie recently wrote about the color gray, including how it rose to popularity and just as quickly became a villain. And specifically the color millennial gray, which is very meaningful to me because I am a millennial and I am going gray.

29:15So this one hits home. I understand you polled your Instagram followers about this. What are designers saying about gray right now, Dennis? Well, I mean, besides the many designers who just sent me angry emojis and shared their dislike for millennial gray, I think some were more thoughtful and thought that, yes, clients have evolved a little bit and moved towards brown or caramel. Elena Frampton of Frampton Co. sent me a note and said that actually, even though we've been talking recently about more clients celebrating more color and British design, she thinks that might be a little bit exaggerated.

30:00And that actually many clients tend to still like just a little pop of color and that maybe gray doesn't bother them quite as much or that other neutral colors don't really weigh on them in the same way that I think a lot of designers get worked up about. I don't know. There were some designers who suggested that maybe the pendulum swung too far and that gray can actually come back in a meaningful way because it is a good neutral. What are your thoughts? I have many thoughts. I do think the article nicely points out how this theory that millennial gray is a reaction to the yellowy, honey, oaky tones of the 90s that people my age and a little bit younger all grew up with.

30:45And gray kind of conveyed this sort of sophisticated, lightly industrial, kind of Scandi look that was popular for a time. And it's also just an easy color. I'm going to admit it. I have a gray sofa. So it was an easy color to mix. And I think a lot of people are probably in a similar boat. So it's both utilitarian and there's sort of this cultural significance that I think resonates with a certain generation. I have to say, though, I feel like when you look at what's really popular in the leading edge of design, I feel like it's already been over. I think about Kips Bay, I can't think of a single even gray detail that I can remember.

31:23It's a very colorful house. and you know the more kind of standard look right now I feel like is the so-called sad beige you know the kind of the beige and the topes and that that feels like to some degree a little bit like the cliche of the moment not uh not millennial gray but uh I don't know you know it's it's always tough colors are colors are going to be popular they're going to be popular no matter what well and I think we and we've talked about this on the show before and I I saw a little bit of some remarks that Leanne Ford was making recently about this issue of neutralizing your home for that next buyer.

31:58And, uh, and she talked about not being a squatter in your own home that go, go ahead and, and live there. And, and that gray represented that safe color that you could, you could paint the walls and the next buyer wouldn't be too offended by it. But, um, you You know, I think, right? I don't, I mean, I wouldn't advise color drenching in gray. That has sort of, you know, shades of institution. I don't know. But I agree. Like, gray definitely fits in with the whole, like, house flipping core to some degree to do a lot of gray. I feel like it's over at this point, but maybe I'm wrong. I think that if it's as over as everyone thinks it is, it's probably just about to make a recovery, you know?

32:42Exactly. Exactly. I think Jen Gracie from Gracie sent me a note to that very same effect. She said, if everyone is talking it down, that it's probably just, so buy it. Buy Gray on the opening tomorrow and look for it to make a comeback. That's what Jen Gracie and I think. All right. That's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including a look at fall trends and the latest industry hires. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

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34:23And we're back. I'm joined now by legendary interior designer Alexa Hampton, who is also joining us in her capacity as one of the chairs for the Kipps Bay Decorator Showhouse, which is, as we'll talk about, celebrating its 50th anniversary. Alexa, thank you so much for joining me. Hi, I'm happy to be here. Well, it is great to have you and always a pleasure to talk with you. As you well know, we should, before we jump into all sorts of fun stories about the many times that both you and your father have done the Kips Bay Show House, we should tell listeners what the Kips Bay Show House is and its significance over the years.

35:06Not everyone may have had the opportunity to come and visit. This is the 50th Showhouse. The Showhouse is a major partner in the design industry of New York. New Yorkers have come to expect that designers every year come out, trot out our stuff on behalf of the Kipsch Bay Boys and Girls Club in the Bronx that serves 11 ,000 children and some of them at risk by giving them opportunities to learn robotics and to cook. and it has an amazing performing arts history and program. And the design community is thrilled, and I'm going to speak for it, is thrilled to be able to have such a close relationship with philanthropy that means something.

35:54This is New Yorkers for New Yorkers. And in the many years that we have expanded, it is now international this year. So this year we have Ben Pentry from the UK doing a room. We have people from Chicago. We have people from California, Florida. And it is a huge honor to be asked to be in the show house. And there's a fear factor quality to the Kips Bay show house because you usually have about six weeks to tear out bathrooms and kitchens and throw up cabinetry and install plaster moldings and borrow, beg, and steal. And then when the show house comes down, everything goes away. And usually the property is sold.

36:41And it has always had such a level of import. You tell me the early days when your father was doing it, I think he was in the first few years that your father was involved. And there's this wonderful picture of your father sitting on a stairwell in his tuxedo with a group of legendary designers. You could often find my father in his formal wear on a step. Just sitting on some steps. Just sitting there. Yeah. Sitting there with some other legends. He was cool that way. Yeah. No, I think the first room he did was with Alexander Stoddard for Macmillan. Okay. I'm curious to know how many Macmillan has done, how many show house rooms they did.

37:25a huge bite out of the show house last year, very successfully. But when I was in the third grade in Miss Roberts' class at Spence, our field trip was to the Gibbs Bay show house. Obviously, I mean, if anything could sound more weird in Upper East Side, I certainly can't think of it. But obviously this had been created by my father. He'd been like, okay, well. Sure, bring all the kids over to the house. But as a result of that early exposure, it has been very much in my mind forever. The Kids Bay Showhouse is just a thing that is very New York. It usually happens in May, though because of real estate kerfuffles and crosswires, it's happening this year in the fall.

38:22Right. And to your point, it usually happens on the Upper East Side and had become legendary in its own means for that. But this year, a very different location down on West 12th and kind of a cool West Village vibe. Very cool. I very much would love to live in this area, but my window of cool was very slender and it passed. So I am stuck in Midtown. But yeah, it's in a really great neighborhood, and hopefully we're capturing a lot of visitors who are new to the notion of the Kips Bay Showhouse and getting to see it. And New York, we are a growing thing. The showhouse should be everywhere. We've been uptown on 120th.

39:11Now we've been on 12th. It's very exciting. It is very exciting. And I think that the spaces themselves just force you to make different decisions, right? and different things are possible or not possible. Yeah. As you know, I was just reading something this morning that Vicente Wolfe was saying that so many things that he had ordered were either unavailable or just didn't come in that the result was his room had a quote, spontaneity, but he was psyched about it. And certainly the room looks great. So I loved his attitude on that. That is, it is a fact those things happen. I know somebody came in with, I think Charles Pavarini in his Zoom room that he designed upstairs, came in with a huge slab of marble, and it just didn't fit up the stairs.

40:01So back it went to the marble yard to be cut down. And there must have been so many things like that. And as you say, what is remarkable about what the decorators and designers who do Kipps Bay is their ability to pivot at a moment's notice. This isn't coming. That's no longer available. Somebody was telling me the fabric that they had chosen originally, not there. I mean, they were just one thing after another. You say pivot. I say we keep our knees bent. Yes. Keep them bent so that we can go wherever we need to at a moment's notice. Well, so thinking back to when you were a young girl at Spence, those happy days.

40:46As your eyebrows are shooting up with what I can only assume is scorn. Well, no. No, no, no. I was always very fond of Spence girls. Listen, going to Buckley, you were just happy to see girls. Right. Oh, my God. The Buckley boys. Yay! Yes. So I was quite partial. But I wonder, what did you make at the time of, here's your father working on this prestigious show house? Did you really, and did your classmates really understand what this was all about in this world? I mean, do we even now understand what it's all about? Certainly. And we were all forced to write thank you notes to my father when we got back to school.

41:30I love that. I'm sure my classmates were like, dear stinking Mr. Hampton. Thanks a lot. Thanks for making us go to that house. What are we there for? I don't know what they made of it. But my family is lousy with design enthusiasts. We're everywhere. So for me, it could not have been more normal. And this was, again, if you are a design enthusiast, the year that that was, was a year in which he did a beautiful dark brown room with white slipcovers. And it is opposite in the book of Kip's Bay, the 50 years of Kip's Bay. It is opposite Jim Druckmann's dedication. So it's a really great room to see right out of the gate.

42:15But there have been so many great rooms. I know, obviously, Mario's rooms. I know Bunny's rooms. Corey Damon Jenkins has just blazed all kinds of trails in Kips Bay. Absolutely. So many wonderful talents, so many epic design turns. It's great. And it's great that people have complex feelings about show houses and decorating, and is it frivolous, and is it expensive, and what is the message? But the message is we're putting on a show for 11 ,000 kids in the Bronx. And that is a wonderful merge of it's a cleansing of what could otherwise feel complicated. But it's meaningful. And frankly, I consider this an audition for my future clients, those students in the Bronx.

43:10So I'm trying to impress them so that they hire me in 10 or 15 years. Well, I mean, interestingly, it often has been as a launchpad for people's careers. And I feel like some rooms and even some staircases in the history of Case Bay, right, have just been so memorable that they become iconic and almost an indicator of that specific time period and all that it was about. And I know exactly what staircase you're probably referring to, Sasha Bikoff's incredible Memphis-style staircase. And I was in that showhouse that year, and I remember an older woman coming in and not getting the staircase. and she came to me as a traditionalist myself and said, oh, you know, what's happening with those tears?

44:03And I was like, it's magnificent. Don't come to me looking for anything other than total props for Sasha. And it was also great for the show house because it was so talked about and so new and exciting. It got so many people to come to the show house to see it. and I think as a consequence of it, she went on to design with Versace and did all kinds of things. It was a calling card of her bravery, her mastery of the style she adopted for the show and I mean, it just showed, look what this lady can do. So the wisdom is you either decorate like you want to decorate, to show what your quote unquote style is or you swing for the fences.

44:54And those are the two distinct ways you go about show house decorating. And if you're lucky enough, you get to do at least one of each at some point in your life. You know, if you're lucky enough to do it twice. Well, and you've had the opportunity. So I can't remember how many show houses your father had done. I mean, let's assume a thousand. Let's say, right? It was a big number. He had done a lot. And then do you remember when you did your first Kips Bay show house? Yes, I do. No, it was Layden Lewis, who is doing a beautiful run this year in the show house. He and I were in the class of 99.

45:32That was our first show house together. And we shared a cord of firewood. I saw his, he reminds me of this story. I saw his empty fireplace and I was like, Mr. Lewis, certainly you need some firewood. Can I lend you some? And he was like, okay. And it is like a graduating class. Each year, the designers have that special bond because we've gone through it together. So 1999 was the first one. And you were stepping into so many things at the time. You were stepping into your father's business. Yeah, so it was a year after my father had died. And so I was very much decorating in that show house to have people see that I could decorate properly.

46:26Yeah. You know, that wasn't a Razzmatazz show house for me. That was, I am Mark Hampton's daughter and I'm not totally insane. And it was a great show house. And it was a great show house. I mean, much was written about it at the time, and it seemed as though your messaging worked, right? And everyone saw that room and thought, yes, okay, she can carry this on, which was a huge undertaking on your part. Perhaps. All I remember was Marianne Himes Gomez had the most beautiful living room that year. And Scott Salvatore had a gorgeous dining room with tons of awning stripes. And Thomas O 'Brien was upstairs and he had a wonderful rug from Tony Mott, who owns Crosby Street Studio, who did my rug this year.

47:11So still so many correspondences. Yeah, look at that. It's good stuff. Well, so tell me about your room that you did this year. I mean, I've spent time with you in it and it's a beautiful room, but tell me, there's stories within. So many stories. The room was inspired by an Oscar de la Renta dress, which was transformed by the company 22 into two distinct fabrics that they created digitally using the dress. And they are on the curtains and on the bed, the bed, which has a storied past. It was the Duchess of Marlboros. And then it was my parents' bed for 40 years in Southampton. And it is a queen-size bed.

47:53And I told you my father described king beds as vulgar, which I find so funny. It's such a big opinion to have. It's so mean. Exactly. Such a strong word to use to describe it. It carries judgment. So when it left Southampton to cede to a king-sized bed, it couldn't just go away. This bed is magnificent. So that is the core of the room, which is very traditional and what I like to describe as unabashedly pretty. And then it is brought into the modern day by the Crosby Street Studio, Scandinavian Rug, Thomas Englehart's paper mantle. And to anyone listening, that is such a head scratcher that you're simply going to have to come to see it for yourself.

48:45Reason alone to come to the house is to see the paper mantle. A paper mantle and my friend Celia Roget, who did a beautiful, subversive, trompe l 'oeil photograph of a mirror. And so, so many people, Hyde Park Mouldings, Anthony Lawrence Belfair did the bed, the shade store, of course, did the curtains. I'm like thinking, thinking, thinking, Gallerie de L 'Homme sconces, tons of custom lamps. Now I sound like I'm giving an Oscar acceptance speech. I'll stop. Well, no, you know, I'm trying to think about what it meant to do the Kips Bay Show House when your father was doing it. And if you have insight as to how your father thought about it, was he thinking this was helpful to get work?

49:33Was it a press thing? No, I did not have to be told to feel that he was incredibly honored to be a part of it. And there were sort of that whispering, sepulchral seriousness when you walked in. People were, you know, very amazing decorators were preening and so excited to be a part of it. And that is very much still the case. You have to be invited. You need to submit a portfolio. It is willing to be asked. And as you said, it's an opportunity. And I'm glad it's an opportunity because it's also an expense to be a part of. And you've got to, you know, the best thing is always like a small room.

50:16A small room is amazing because then you can just jewel box it out. But anything is amazing. To be asked is a real honor. and Dan Quintero, who runs Kips Today Boys and Girls Club in the Bronx, and Jim Druckmann, who is the president of its board. And all of us will tell you, if anybody has a chance to go and look at the Kips Today Boys and Girls Club, it is an amazing place. And it's so inspirational. And these kids are brilliant. And what they're doing is, you know, I'm like, how do I get myself into that program. Can someone let this old lady in? What they're teaching is extraordinary. And this is New York's future leaders and citizens.

51:04And it's great to be part of that citizenry. Yeah, no, no, no. And I'm so glad that you tied it back with that, because I think for many years, people didn't realize the connection and what it was. And now there's there's such a better understanding of the incredible charity and the work that that organization does to help the 11 ,000 children, as you were saying earlier. And so it really does give a lot back. Are there funny stories or fun memories that you call to mind from the past? You know, all of that, all of the memories are happy after the fact. Yeah. When you're going through it. I've many times over the years threatened to print T-shirts that say it's not Kip's Bay if you're not crying.

51:54Sure. Just because of the fear factor element. But it is after the the hurdles. It's just all fun. All fun. Yeah, I mean, there's an intense pressure. As we were saying earlier, there are so many things that at the last minute, I remember in that house a couple of years ago, a woman had two mirrors in her room and one of the mirrors had broken with the first delivery and they had to quickly rush. I mean, it's another reminder too, and Jim Druckmann and I were talking about this last night, that it shows you what you can get done in such a short period of time and what people are capable of doing.

52:31The number of high gloss ceilings in this year's house is extraordinary, and those are not easy to do. Yeah, no. And by the way, all of this was going on in construction with no air conditioning. Exactly. Which was incredible. Well, it's an incredible group. And we mustn't leave out Nazira, who plays such a huge role. Yeah, she runs all of the Kips Bay show houses in New York, Palm Beach, and Dallas. But she gets things done. And for designers who want to do Kips Bay, I would say by all means, send in your portfolio. And until Kips Bay comes a call in, do other show houses too. Work through it.

53:17Because show houses are a particular animal. And it is good to maybe have seen the lay of the land before you get to the big daddy Kips. and it's a great way to get out there. It's a great way for people to see your work. Obviously, as a profession, we don't really advertise. So it's always a good way to get yourself out there and to feel like you're doing good because most show houses do benefit an organization or other. Yeah, and you're a big believer in doing show houses and getting yourself out there. And being a good community member. That's always good juju. You want to be a good contributor to your people always, whether that is New Yorkers or the design community or the wonderful vendors we work with.

54:08Hopefully, you know, it's extremely important to celebrate all of those vendors, craftsmen, artisans, artists, and make sure everybody who comes through sees their work and hopefully they get new followers, new, that sounds like I mean social media, but I don't, you know what I mean, new fans. um people frequent designer people frequently you'll either hear someone saying they're upset because they got a big room or hear someone saying they're upset because it's got a small room so you know that you just you get what you get you don't get upset you come in you write down you know three or four spaces you really want to do and then it goes into a lottery So sometimes you are not matched with your heart's desire, but as Mr.

54:57Wolf said, spontaneity will be your God, right? Well, exactly. And listen, as we say, it has definitely launched careers, and often it was a stairwell or a powder room. And especially stairwells are difficult. And I can think of quite a few in recent memory that were knockouts. So it is bringing to life the less obvious spaces that's very memorable. And often, I think, can demonstrate what you can do with a challenging space, which is, I think... Exactly. Right? Deft hands. Yes. Yes, indeed. Alexa, you're so kind to make the time. Here we are. It's just the day after the opening of the show house.

55:43People were pouring through your room last night. I would like our listeners to know that I am at the show house right now, crouched in an out-of-service bathroom, sitting on a toilet doing this podcast with you. Granted, the seat is covered. I am not using it. I'm just sitting on it. But that is how much I want to talk to Dennis Scully. Well, and I am so grateful to you for that. And I will take you in any room in any state. I really I'm I'm just incredibly grateful. And I thank you. So and I congratulate you again for your room. And I congratulate Kips Bay on the huge anniversary. And thank you again for making the time.

56:27Thank you.

56:31And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Chaddick caught my eye, our friends down in North Carolina. You know, we talked a few months ago about sort of the sad demise of EJ Victor, you know, a company that they had a horrible flood because of Hurricane Helene and they weren't able to restart the business. And, you know, they just recently announced that they were permanently shuttering. But what I've noticed is that Chattuck has actually picked up some of their, like they have the Alison Palladino line that used to be done by E.J.

57:04Victor. Now Chattuck is producing it. I believe that they were able to hire some people from E.J. Victor. So, you know, certainly not a happy ending for E.J. Victor, but nice to know that some of the designs that were produced there have moved on. Some of the employees have moved on. So a little bit of a silver lining, you know, in an unfortunate story. And I'm glad to see that they're in good hands with Chattuck. What caught your eye this week, Thomas? A couple of things caught my eye. First, the giant October issue of British House and Garden arrived at my house. And I had to laugh, Fred, because recently we were talking about luxury and how all the magazines used to say, no, no, this one is the luxury issue.

57:39This issue is the big design and decoration issue. Wait, aren't they all big design and decoration issues? But this one, even bigger. And you know what? I have to say, it actually delivers in a huge way. Designers are going to want to get their hands on copies of this if they don't already subscribe because it is jam-packed with product. And in the conversation I had with Sarah Spateri, we were talking about how both the ads and the editorial, when they're done right, can really be equally meaningful to the reader. And that is certainly the case with this issue. It is just packed with product and also a lot of just designer collaborations with different companies.

58:22There's a Design 100 list that is as much about product as it is about the designers behind it. So it's a really sort of standout issue, I have to say. It's pretty impressive. And again, those British magazines, I just feel like they are giving us a run. Is there any gray in it, Dennis? Any gray? There is no gray. It's so warm and friendly and inviting. No millennial gray here. The other thing that I wanted to mention is that next week I will be in Chicago. That's right. Tuesday, October 7th from 5 to 7 p.m., I will be in the Serena and Lily Chicago Design Shop. So come and see me there. We're going to be doing a fun panel talking about art and women in art particularly.

59:07So I'm really looking forward to that. But I'm especially excited to be in Chicago. I've been eager to get there. So I look forward to seeing, hopefully, lots of people there to kick off the big design Chicago events that will be going on. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaos and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda I'm Dennis Scully Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday