The Thursday Show: Are designers feeling good about 2025? Plus: Loloi's new brand

24:26these two giants coming together. But I think it's hard. And I think that the best partnerships, and you mentioned Nikki Kehoe, and I think it was clear when I spoke with them, how much respect they have for each other, how much admiration, how they find strength in each other. And I think those are the best partnerships. And I think that it's, when you talk to people who who are thinking about it, you know, they, they often see it as, oh, we're going to have to share the revenue or we're going to have to, uh, am I going to be doing more work than the other person or how is it all going to work?

25:05I mean, there are so many ways that it can go wrong. Whose name is going to be first on the letterhead? Right. Who's the, who's the one who's going to be the front person with the client and who's really making the decisions. I mean, it's, riddled with complications. Yeah. Take it from me. I think the partnerships at work are ones where people have very clearly defined roles, where there's someone who's like, I am happy doing this. I'm not happy doing that. You are happy doing that. You're not happy doing this. That's when I think it works. But it's funny. I think it's really easy to be kind of cynical about partnerships and just say, oh, they're never going to work in the long term, blah, blah, blah.

25:40But I do think that having a partner, especially in the early days of starting a firm, works for so many people because it's difficult. It's daunting to go out on your own. You can rely on somebody to sort of fill the gaps in your own skill set. You can grow together. You can share the burden of the stress. And it can be a lonely profession. And I think that just because partnerships do often come to an end over the scope of the entire lifespan of a firm, I don't think that should discourage people from trying to do them in the first place. I just think you should go into them understanding that it's possible this may end someday and we should approach this as maturely as Studio High Mod.

26:15I think just because they end is not necessarily a reason not to do them in the first place. No, no, no. And I couldn't agree more. And please don't let my takeaway be don't form a partnership because I honestly think they can be one of the most rewarding ways to go through this business possible. You just have to go into it knowing that it's very complicated. And again, there are days that you really have to put your ego and everything else aside for the success of the business. And that often is the most challenging part. But I wish everyone a great partnership. That's how I feel. Okay. Next up, we're going to talk about dopamine decor.

26:53In the Washington Post this week, Catherine O'Shea Evans asks designers for their take on dopamine decor, a viral trend that involves making design choices that spark joy. Fred, did this article spark joy for you? I'm going to just stop this conversation right off the bat and say, aren't all design choices supposed to spark joy? Like, why is it a viral trend to have design that makes you happy? Are you as confused by this as I am? I don't quite get it. Well, you know, it's interesting that you say that, Fred, because I feel like recently there have been a lot of conversations going around about all this beige-ification.

27:34And recently we were talking about the neutrals running the world, right? And I felt like this article was about, you know what? People take some chances. Bring some color into your project. Find some things that make you happy. find some things that actually reveal you live here versus so many of the designs that we see today where it's hard to tell who lives there. The thing is, the premise of the article is that, you know, what it often is interpreted as, as a lot of bright colors, you know, the thesis behind having your interior give you happiness and individuality is a good one. But when you see it on TikTok, often that turns into, here's my dopamine decor living room, look at my like fluorescent yellow sofa.

28:17And I think that like the premise of the article was like, okay, let's take the idea and the philosophy, but let's pair it back and talk about ways to, you know, give your home this spirit without going crazy with the super bright color. So, you know, certainly a great angle by Catherine, who's a great design writer. And there were some great takes, you know, Brittany Bromley, designer talked about how like, let's not go crazy with the fluorescence. Let's do earthy colors. Liz Poderatsu talked about how she has a wellness room that she calls her dopamine. Then I definitely need one of those, one of those in my apartment.

28:47But I just thought it was, you know, I think this is a good trend. It's just sort of makes me think like, well, how did we get away from this in the first place? Like, how did we get away from our home supposed to be making us happy? Well, and again, I think that is the bigger conversation in all of this. I think how did we get swept away on some algorithmic wave that just took us to this place of, again, Again, neutrality, for lack of a better word, but this beige-ification. I was so happy when Dan Campbell told us that gray at least was over. Gray is over, and beige and neutrals have taken over.

29:25But I also loved the notion of just having there be a comedic wink was referred to in the piece. And I find it so fun when, again, you just, it doesn't even have to be anything wild like colorful wallpaper or, as you say, the bright yellow sofa. But even if there are just some objects in the room that just tell us a little bit about you and maybe bring a laugh. So I think it's really personalization can mean so many things. And I think calling it dopamine makes it sound like a micro trend or something. And maybe that ruffles people's feathers and is unwelcome. But I actually like a lot of what this piece is calling out.

30:15I know. Now I just feel bad for the people who beige activates their dopamine. I mean, those people are out there. Those people are out there. I feel for them. And nothing against the beiges, but I was so glad to see a piece that sort of clearly set some people free. All right. That's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including advice from business coach Gail Doby on employee compensation and a guide to ethical sourcing. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

30:50We're taking a quick break from the show to hear about Hector Finch, who's a proud sponsor of this year's Kips Bay Decorator Showhouse in Palm Beach. Visit February 22nd through March 16th to see how the company collaborated with designers throughout the house to install lighting products in seven rooms. And while you're in town, be sure to also visit the new Benjamin Peterson showroom at 1200 North Dixie Highway in Lake Worth, where you can see a wide range of fixtures from the Hector Finch collection. See the collection online at HectorFinch.com and buy tickets to visit the showhouse at KipsbayDecoratorShowhouse.org.

31:29This season, Jaypore Living introduces their new cozy collection of textured rugs. Bring warmth and style into the home with high-low depths, rich materials, and designs that never go out of style. Whether you're curling up with hot cocoa or sprucing up your space for spring, start with the rug. Start with Jaypore Living. Visit JayporeLiving.com to join their trade program and become part of the Jaypore Living family. And now, back to the show.

32:06And we're back. I'm joined now by Cyrus Lalloy, one of the co-founders of the new venture we're going to talk about today, June Lalloy. Cyrus, thank you so much for being here. Absolutely. Thanks for having me back on the show. I'm delighted to have you back. And we have talked on the show about June Lalloy, but I'm eager to hear from you about how it all got started and everything that led up to this decision. let's tell people first what June Lalloy is. Yeah. So June Lalloy is our sister business that's direct to consumer. And it is not just rugs and pillows that Lalloy is known for for 20 years.

32:47It's also a total home furnishings brand. So it's furniture, it's lighting, it's decor, it's art, it's all of it. And so it's a very ambitious project, something my brother and I have dreamed up for a while. And so far, so good. It's about nine weeks old now. We are nine weeks in. And so I'm eager to hear how the first nine weeks have been. But tell me when the idea first popped up and who had the idea and who came to who about the whole thing. Tell me. Probably about two years ago, we really sat down and kind of created a plan, hired a team, set the vision for what we wanted to accomplish. And it's just been a dream of my brother and I's for a while now.

33:34I think we mainly saw a void in the market for a retailer in this industry that was aspirational in terms of the product design and quality and how it presents itself, but then also reasonably attainable in terms of value. Basically, that democratization of good design, the Lalloy is known for. So tell me what democratization of design means to you. We've been having a lot of conversations recently about this notion and when it crept into our world in a meaningful way. What's your understanding of what that means? Yeah, I think for me that means availability. So it's about making good design available at a really good value and making it pretty accessible.

34:20I think generally DTC models kind of pride themselves on that accessibility and how easy it is to shop. But then also from like just a product perspective, making sure that we're delivering high quality, but at a reasonable price. And that's kind of how June Lalloy positions itself. And that was kind of intentional from the beginning. When you first had the idea or when you started to get really serious. So it sounds like you first had the idea many years ago. Yeah. Right. And then we're just kind of batting around and oh, one day. Was there anything in particular that accelerated the desire to move forward?

34:58Was there something you were seeing at the various markets that you were showing? Was there something you were seeing with the retail industry or what made you want to diversify? Because it sounds like that's how you think about this, diversifying the business. You know, we've had conversations, Dennis, between you and I before about, is it possible for a brand in this industry to create a brand that not just the trade is aware of and respects, but that also consumers know of? And I think that's really, really hard. And so I thought of June Lalloy as a way to be a rising tide for both brands. The D2C business model requires a lot of advertising.

35:36So on the beginning, you know, June Lalloy benefits from the equity of the Lalloy name. I think in the long term, we think Lalloy is actually going to be a beneficiary of June Lalloy's awareness and stature in the industry. So in that sense, as both businesses continue to grow and develop, we think there's going to be a very symbiotic relationship there that actually helps a lot of our trade customers who buy from Lalloy because we think the Lalloy names have become, I think, more meaningful to the consumer as the years go on. The other thing that I think comes to mind for me is June Lalloy benefits from a lot of the existing resources and infrastructure that Lalloy has.

36:16All that kind of stuff that makes it, I think, I wouldn't say easy, but much easier for June Lalloy to launch than it would be any other kind of newcomer in this industry in the D2C space. Even if they had the capital, there's still all this other industry know-how and infrastructure you have to build up. Yeah, I mean, that's a great point. And you mentioned also earlier, the costs involved in launching and continuing to generate business for a D2C brand. And we've had so many conversations recently about how dramatically those costs have increased over recent years and how challenging it is to not have a physical presence and having to build a digital business.

37:06So, I mean, how did you think about it? And is part of the reason why you had to wait until now was that you needed to have enough money in the bank to really be able to do it in a meaningful way? Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think Jun Lalloy has a couple of unique advantages. It's kind of like a 20-year-old startup, if you will, where it has that brand equity that Lalloy has. So it's probably getting some direct traffic due to the Lalloy name and consumers that are aware of Lalloy and so forth. and then all these other expenses that you're speaking of, a lot of that for us is existing infrastructure, existing staff that we have.

37:48And all of that makes the kind of total overhead for doing the law a little bit more palatable. And the law is fully privately owned. It's all a family. So there's not that outside pressure from private equity or what have you to make an immediate returns. So we're able to kind of just go at our own pace, make really thoughtful decisions and think long-term. And I think that's why this dynamic kind of allowed us to do this in an environment where, let's be honest, there's not a lot of great, great stories out there from home furnishings, retailers, particularly the kind of online-centric ones in the last year or so.

38:27Well, so speaking of it being a family business and family funded, so do you have to go to dad and say, so, you know, dad, we really want to launch this DTC brand and it's going to be really cool, but we are going to need a boatload of money to do it. Tell me how that whole conversation went down. Yeah, I mean, certainly we had to convince Amir that we thought it was a good idea. And we presented a plan and kind of forecasted where we could be in the first couple of years. And I think at this point of our career, he knew it was a dream of ours for Stephen and me. And we've maybe gained his trust over the years.

39:12I don't know. So I'll say this. He's exclusively focused on Lalloy. And much to my surprise, I thought once we started building this thing, he wasn't going to be able to help himself and he's going to want to get involved and have opinions, particularly on the rugs and so forth. But he's been surprisingly like really hands off. And he's really, really focused on the Lloyd business as we all are. But yeah, he's given us a long leash and certainly don't want to let him down. So, and you think he recognized in part that, I mean, it sounds like from what you're saying, part of the dream was, hey, I saw my dad created this amazing business.

39:52Could Steven and I do the same thing? Yeah, I think there's a bit of that element to it in terms of maybe seeing a little bit of himself in us. But then also, I think he recognizes it was probably healthy for the business. I mean, as long as we don't bet the farm on it, diversifying the business is always healthy, right? And we saw this as a way to grow. We knew we couldn't just take Lalloy DTC. That would have created a lot of ill will with Lalloy's retailers. Instead, I think we did it the hard way. we create an entirely separate product line that's mutually exclusive from what Lalloy offers to ensure there'd be no conflicts for our retailers.

40:31And more than that, it was kind of like a symbolic gesture to the trade. Like, hey, Lalloy is still entirely separate, still 100 % focused on the trade. June Lalloy is also for trade professionals, if interior designers and the like who want to participate in the trade program, but Lalloy remains 100 % to the trade, and that's our focus. Well, and I'm glad you raised that point because one of the things that I wanted to understand better was your whole risk assessment in all of this. So you just mentioned, oh, it didn't make sense to take Lalloy itself direct to consumer because that was perhaps going to alienate some of your retail partners, some of the trade.

41:15So how did you think about how to gently step into this other business, not lose some of your relationships? And how much did you think that there would be designers who might be cross or irritated about this? Yeah, good question. I actually read that piece that Fred wrote for Business of Home around what makes a good trade program. And it talked about exclusivity, but then more important than that, it talked about pricing protection. And so we thought in those terms also, and the only way for Lalloy to really do that was to create a separate product line and separate sister business for June Lalloy.

41:56So I think that mutual exclusivity is like the first tenet of kind of how we thought about this. And the other thing was just good communication. You know, in the period of time before we launched, we had a lot of like communication and messages to our customers saying, hey, this is what's coming. This is why we are doing it. This is why it won't present a conflict for your business. If you are an interior designer, you're more than welcome to check out Julio Loy. We hope you do. But otherwise, I think just a lot of good communication and making sure to keep the product line separate. That's how we were able to manage it.

42:31When you did the outreach to people saying, OK, this is coming your way soon. What do you think? It's all going to be great. I promise you it's going to be a completely different product and you don't have to worry about that. Were there any responses that surprised you or concerned you? Or did you think, oh, people are going to feel how they're going to feel. We're moving forward. Yeah, it was really positive, to be honest. I would be lying if I say that wasn't part of me. It was a little bit worried. Even though we created a different brand, would people still feel like, hey, Leloy's losing their focus?

43:10I even had some retailers approach me at Vegas Market with just kind words. Some of them said kind words about the way the site looked and the way the product looked. But some of them just kind of appreciate the way we went about it, being really transparent with them and just making sure we're keeping them top of mind and bringing them along for the journey. So really fortunate with how the industry has reacted. And then not just in terms of lack of like, you know, any sort of like negative response, but really positive from trade professionals. We've had a lot of our existing, you know, design cohort come over and shop June Lalloy.

43:49But then what's also really interesting is like we've attracted some new designers that Lolloy didn't do business with. You know, I don't know if it's because of the new categories. Maybe it's the collaboration we just launched with Heidi. But I mean, that suggests that we're not cannibalizing in our existing business. And that was, you know, absolutely goal number one. So we really kind of went all out. And I think the industry feels that. I think people get that and they're responding. They're responding to that. There's probably also like, what is there in America? How many interior designers?

44:23Like somewhere between 50 ,000 to 80 ,000. I see different numbers, but something thereabouts, right? So I think what's dangerous if you work in marketing or you work in sales, you operate a business industry is to assume that everyone shops the same way or that everyone's coming to High Point. High Point and Vegas, they're extremely important. Don't get me wrong. extremely important for connecting with your customers, allowing them to see what you're about in person, having them experience who you are, what you're all about, repeat business, acquire new customers, building industry contacts and friends.

44:59It's still just the CES of our industry, right? But there are some folks that they don't want to go to market. No, no. I mean, and you and I have had this conversation. I'm always amazed. Every High Point market, I'm being introduced to some designer who's been in the business for years, and they're telling me it's their first time at High Point. Right? And I'm thinking, yes, exactly. But people have different perceptions of markets and how relevant they are or aren't to them. And so I get it. And I know that you have long felt that there were just many people you weren't reaching for one reason or another.

45:39And I think a lot of companies feel this way. And I also think taking a chance on launching this kind of business, if nothing else, teaches you so much about the marketplace, what's really going on, what people really respond to, and speaking to this wider audience, I think just can't help but be beneficial. And there have to be learnings you can take back to the other brand as well. Yes. Yes. And we're still a baby, right? Nine weeks old. But yeah, it's been a really fun ride thus far and we're learning a lot. I mean, all sorts of quirks. People don't seem to mind waiting for made to order items.

46:24So we're learning a lot there. I think there's some categories like sectionals and lighting that we're still learning. And then the collaborations, We launched our first one with Heidi. We'll launch another one on February 24th. And the Heidi one is performed extremely well. Yeah, there's certain things that work for Malloy that also work for Juno Malloy. And there's some that we're finding out like, yeah, this doesn't really translate. So it's all really fascinating. Absolutely. And I'm glad that you mentioned the collaboration and congratulations on the collaboration with Heidi. And I know that designer collaborations have done so much to help build awareness for Lalloy and really secure that brand in designers' minds.

47:08Tell me how you thought about Heidi and June Lalloy and why those made sense together. It was great timing. I mean, she's reached such an arc in her career where she's now like 8 ,100. You see her in the media everywhere. Her projects are just getting more and more stunning. We're such big, big fans. And she takes like a bold approach to everything that she does. And so it was a real kind of joy getting to work with her. And we feel really fortunate. Like Heidi took a leap of faith, right? She didn't even know, we didn't have a name for the new business when she agreed to join and be a collaboration partner for this really just so soon after we launched.

47:54And thus far, you know, so far so good on that. So that's, that's been really rewarding. It's interesting because so often there's this debate with consumer-facing brands. To your point, we in the industry all love Heidi and know who Heidi is and have watched her career blossom and grow. And we always think, is she recognizable to the average consumer? Does it need to be some TV star? Does it need to be somebody who has some Hollywood connection? But you chose somebody who was well-known and beloved in the industry. And I'm curious how you think about that. Ideally, a partner brings authenticity and scale.

48:37That's like the golden combination. And I think Heidi has more scale and more reputation with the consumers than maybe some realize. A lot of the sales for Heidi's products are coming from consumers. There are trade pros buying it too, don't get me wrong, but there is like a consumer appetite for her aesthetic and her product line with us. And I think the decision to launch her before any other collaborations, that was almost kind of a symbolic gesture to our trade audience that shops June Lalloy to let them know like, hey, June Lalloy is very much a resource for you. Yes, it's available to the consumer, but we're very enthusiastic about winning the trades business.

49:25And that's something that I'm like constantly watching for because to me, like the trade, like the ultimate shopper, right? I'm not saying like marketing doesn't matter to them, but they're not going to be like charmed by some Facebook campaign or pretty content, whatever it may be. Like they're seasoned shoppers. They know good from bad in this industry. And if you can win them over, you know, we know we're doing something right from a product perspective. So the fact that we're already getting a healthy amount of trade business, that to me is like, if the trade likes us and they think the products are strong, then I know the consumer will too.

50:04Well, and again, you mentioned Fred's piece about trade programs. And in our recent discussion about it, we were detecting an evolution in how designers felt about brands making themselves more widely available. And I think more and more designers recognize that there's an air of inevitability around that. It's how you go about it and whether you can still continue to protect designers with their pricing or just create different products so that it's not apples to apples comparison with your direct-to-consumer product versus your trade product, sort of all of that. And I know that you thought about that a lot.

50:54Yeah, it's an interesting thing. We're always trying to keep a pulse on it. You know, how much is the industry changing? How much is it staying the same? I do talk to some designers that really value exclusivity at market or when I bump into designers and that can mean different things, right? Like, you know, it's like exclusivity means like for some designers, it's I want to go Milan to source this thing so they can be entirely bespoke and no one else can have it. And that's what I want to do for my client in this project. And that's awesome. And then there's certain designers are like, well, I just want you to be exclusive to the trade.

51:32And then some designers are like, well, I just want a trade discount. And there's some designers that are completely indifferent. So I think there's different preferences. And even for designers working on the same project, a lot of them recognize like, hey, okay, this item, I want it to be entirely bespoke and custom and no one else has it, but I don't need the entire project to be full of those items. I can mix and match and create something really interesting in that regard. So that's the way we're seeing it. And we'll certainly keep a pulse on it because like you said, it's just changing all the time.

52:06To your earlier point, what would have been so much easier for you if you could just have just taken Lalloy and just done this with Lalloy? What is harder doing it this way? Oh, how much time do you have? I think that different products was a non-negotiable from the very beginning. Probably it would have been a lot easier. I would have had a lot more free time back last year if we didn't launch with all these new categories from the beginning. But that was very intentional. Lolloy is known for rugs, right? Right. And if we launched this new sister business and we just launched it with rugs, it probably could have been somewhat successful.

52:56But we knew that we had these ambitions to be a total home furnishings brand with June Lolloy. and if you start to dabble and you do that like incrementally or over time versus all at once you only have one chance at a first impression i think that in this industry people don't reward dabblers they want people that hey they really put both feet in they're fully invested they're very serious about these categories because it's going to take time you have to win people over in this space. There's a lot of incumbent players. There's a lot of great, great competition doing great products. And so that was very intentional.

53:38But you asked me what would have been easier. And yeah, that was really the challenge. Yeah. So it sounds like many things would have been easier if you could have just taken Lalloy and just extended it. But suddenly, everybody who is buying product abroad has to be at least a lot more conscious and aware that a new administration has brought with it a lot more conversation about tariffs and what can we do to level the playing field and to make it more competitive for people to bring manufacturing back to America and all of that. How are you thinking about that? Does that create anxiety for you?

54:29Do you think any of this really happens? What's your thinking around some of these recent developments? Here you are only nine weeks into this new business, and we're not that much further into a new administration that seems like it's coming for people who are bringing in product from abroad. Yeah, we paid the best time. It's hard to predict what this administration will do. Thankfully, we don't have too much exposure to China, Canada, and Mexico. And a lot of our products are actually made in the US. We do a lot of made to order stuff in these new categories. And so that's, that's probably just what this administration wanted after all anyway, right?

55:13So in that sense, it's something definitely we're mindful of. To be honest, it's something we're keeping an eye on constantly more for our B2B business than it is June Lalloy. And yeah, I think that this industry is really kind of nervous about this, right? We thought inflation was getting under control late last year, and it was encouraging to see some signs there. And then I think the consumer price index came out last month and it showed an uptick to what, like 3 % again. So shy from that 2 % goal that the Fed wants. What's that going to mean for rate cuts? Probably not good. What's that mean for mortgage rates?

56:01Probably not good. So last year we were all saying what, like survive to 25 and now we're going to need - This was supposed to be the thrive year. This was 25 and thrive. We need something new for 2026, something that rhymes, something that can keep us feeling optimistic and feel like there's some light at the end of the tunnel. So maybe it's something you and Fred can work on maybe, but we need a rallying call there. But to that point, and you're absolutely right, and this is very much my concern as well. The Federal Reserve, in his recent testimony, seemed to be suggesting he's not in any hurry to lower rates, and lots of signs that really they perhaps lowered rates too much already, and the market's a little spooked about that, and the 10-year is ringing that bell very loudly.

56:48It certainly seems as if the year we hoped was going to be a much easier one looks as if it's facing many of the same challenges. Is that your feeling from what you're seeing with business conditions overall? Yeah. I'm afraid I have to say, yeah, we're seeing and we're feeling that from some of our customers also. People we're chatting with at Vegas, that was some of the sentiment. But at the same time, Vegas was busy. the showroom was pretty full. And I think there's probably some just sort of like resignation to like, well, these are the things we cannot control. We need to be mindful of them, but we got to come to market.

57:31We got to see fresh part. We got to be fresh. We got to be different. And we got to put our heads down and work for whatever market share we can get. And so I think that's everyone's focus. That should be everyone's focus this year. And then we'll see what's what with the interest rates and inflation and all those things that we can't control. And do designers say, yeah, all of the problems that we've just outlined, they're showing up for me in a meaningful way. Do designers share that or how do they express how they're feeling? Depends on who you talk to. I think same with vendors, right? You go to some showrooms, it's really busy other other ones not so much and i think it depends on the designers uh business if they're focused on the high end and they have a really strong reputation i think for the most part we've seen them be just open you know just fine if there's folks that maybe a little bit more on the channel they do some design they do a little retail they had a little e-commerce business they spun up during covid like all that kind of stuff it just depends on who you talk to so yeah no No, no, no.

58:38That makes sense. Okay. So for June Lalloy, you launched your partnership with Heidi Callier and it sounds like, what, in a week or so, another partnership to be announced. Do you want to give us a hint? Do you want to give us some initials? I'll give you initials. L and F. L and F. Okay. And it's launching on Monday, February 24th. It is a rug and pillow collaboration. we've been working with this individual for three years so extremely excited well yeah shy of three years but we've been chatting with them for three years is kind of beginning at how this kicked off and then on March 5th we have our spring line launching and that will include a dining room for the first time so dining tables, dining chairs so we're staying busy okay well that's a lot of product that you wow yeah you're uh you're in the furniture biz we are in it no turning back now so well we're we're eager to we're eager to hear who the uh who the next collaboration is and and see the uh the future rollouts i'm uh i'm excited for you i'm thrilled to get to to talk with you and i and i thank you for making the time thank you dennis thanks for having me on

1:00:02And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred? Does pre-FOMO exist, Dennis? Can you pre-have a fear of missing out? Are you feeling that now? I'm feeling some pre-FOMO because Colin King, former podcast guest and celebrity stylist and designer, is having a tag sale in New York City. And that is going to be the social event of the weekend for sure. It's going to be Friday, Saturday, Sunday at 500 West 22nd Street. So if you're in New York and you want to go through Colin King's things and buy them, get over there.

1:00:38That honestly will be a place to see and be seen. I don't think I can make it, but I'm going to try and sneak away from my family to go to Colin King's tag sale. I also quickly, another former podcast guest, House of Hackney, the British textile company, is having a fundraising drive to buy themselves out from the clutches of their private equity owners. I think it's only accessible to British people or people in Europe. I'm not totally sure about that, but it's worth heading over to their Instagram. If you happen to be in England and you want to put down some money, maybe you won't get a return, but you will help someone escape the evils of private equity, which is return enough, I say.

1:01:14Dennis, what caught your eye this week? Well said, and I hope that they get plenty of people lining up to help them out with that endeavor. Two things that caught my eye. One, I was so happy to see Rina Koding, another former guest of the podcast. Rita's got a column for El Decor that's just started. This one's about hanging art and all about art in your home, which is a very fun column, and I look forward to future columns from her. and the other, oh gosh, here I go again being a rain cloud, but I couldn't help but notice the home builder confidence numbers, which we talk about sometimes on the show, but they came out yesterday.

1:01:58And you know who's worried about tariffs, Fred? Home builders, that's who. Yes, their confidence numbers dropped to the lowest level in five months, as they called out the fact that 32 % of appliances and 30 % of softwood lumber comes from abroad, And so we need those trading partners and the home builders are aware of that. So I was glad to see at least they're aware of that. But what was a concern was they're feeling pretty downbeat about the upcoming spring, summer selling season. And I was sorry about that. More of a reminder that interest rates are still high. Housing prices are still high.

1:02:36and people are not yet feeling like we've got the thrive in 25 mentality going in the home world, which is too bad. Just end the podcast on a down note, Dennis. Sorry. Sorry about that. I just want to keep people's feet on the ground, Fred. That's my mission today. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda.

1:03:16I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.