The Thursday Show: Are great rooms always photogenic? Plus: Sarah Harrelson on Cultured's new home publication

25:53And that's great, but it's a real concern longer term for the housing industry, for the furnishings industry, and certainly for interior designers as well, because these are your future clients or maybe not. Well, this is a very glum little entity. I think there's lots of very present concerns around housing market. I do think that Gen Z is still young. It's not crazy that they're not buying up homes and droves. But your point about climbing up the housing ladder is a good one, and they need to get on that first rung if they're going to get up to the rung where they hire a designer. So let's hope the stock market crashes and people put all that money into a house.

26:34No, I think it's an interesting little wrinkle of the market, but I'm knocking on wood that it's not a permanent state of play. Well, I hope so as well. But as you pointed out, the average age of a first-time homebuyer has moved up dramatically in recent years because young people just don't feel that it's within reach, and we need to figure that out. But we're going to move on and talk about a hot take from House and Garden. The other week, writer Claudia Bailey explored whether a good interior needs to be photogenic, posing the question, do we design for the lived experience, the perfect shot, or both?

27:14What do you think, Fred? That is a hot take. These are the pressing questions of our day. No, I think this is actually truly a fascinating issue. I know you posted about this on Instagram. What did the people say? What did the designers say, Dennis? So first of all, they seem to feel very strongly that no, 70 % say, no, it doesn't need to be photogenic. Darn it. 30 % say yes. But many a thoughtful designer said to me, well, it depends what you're doing. So everyone told me if you're doing a show house, then yes, you need it to be photogenic because that needs to work overtime for you. And our friend Billy Seglia weighs in and says that, yes, if you're doing a show house, then it needs to be photogenic.

27:57But he says this photogenic thing has been the downfall of our industry. Too many overly styled photos, impractical setups with captions like, I love the way we live. You can't possibly love it. There's no place to put down a drink, he said. So he's very passionate about it. And a lot of designers feel the same way. They feel as though, can it be livable and also brilliantly photogenic? And the answer is no. What do you think, Fred? I think we need to get Billy Seglia podcast. I think that's a great take. Yeah, I mean, in all seriousness, I do think this is actually a fascinating issue because I agree with most of what, you know, your poll respondents said.

28:41I've been in many, many lovely homes that feel wonderful when you're in them. You pull out your iPhone, take a picture. It just looks like nothing. You know what I mean? Whereas you look at some of the photographs that are on the cover of Architectural Digest or any magazine, really, and you look at them and they're wonderful images. But then you think about like, what would it actually feel like to live in that room? And it probably would feel a little weird. I do think there is this strange, because we've become such a visually oriented culture, we're pelted with images all day long. Something has to be so extreme to stand out.

29:13I think it has pushed interior design, at least sort of the editorial version of interior design towards something that is so stylized that it really is a little bit divorced from reality and divorced from livability. And I think that gap just grows wider by the year. I think this is a real weird little interesting challenge. I think it's such an interesting conversation. And so many designers shared with me and have shared with me in the past that they marvel sometimes when the photographer comes in and the stylist and they bring all these props and branches and ducks and geese and all of these elements.

29:50And wasn't my room beautiful to begin with? And they feel a little bit, and so many photographers talk about, oh, you know, it's so challenging when I'm doing the shoot and the designer is there and I have to move that chair because that chair is just in the wrong place for this shot. And that's where I think this issue of is it livable, is it photogenic, and can they be both is challenging. But I think there is a lot of sensitivity around why they have to do a lot of work to get a photo of my beautifully designed room. Well, I mean, but I mean, I think on the flip side, that's kind of like an argument for why, you know, photographers are so valuable, because I think that, you know, they really do bring a lot to the table to make and make an image of a room, something that can be sold and, you know, put into a magazine.

30:39Because as you say, there is a lot of tweaking that goes on. I mean, I think photographs are they're kind of lies. I mean, they're beautiful lies, but there's so much that's tweaked. to get it to be something that sort of works as a photograph. And I think it's really intriguing. I think most designers, frankly, don't really design with the photograph in mind. I think they're designing for the lives of their clients. I think at the end of the day, that's what really matters. And I think most people sort of understand that. But I do think we've developed a visual culture where people just sort of consume interior design.

31:09And most of what they're consuming is like a weird, hyper manicured, hyper stylized, unreal? Do we have some sort of like, you know, unrealistic body image problem with like unrealistic interior design? I do think it must be, you know, infecting the culture in ways that are maybe hard to understand while we're in it. But I think we'll look back on this age as kind of a weird one. I think it's very challenging. And I do think that you have to take photography into account much more than you did certainly in the pre Instagram age. I think that now that tool is so powerful that it's perhaps a mistake to not really be thinking about that more.

31:48You know, by contrast, if you look at old shelter magazines, sometimes it's like almost underwhelming. You're like, okay, this looks nice, but what's really special about it? And I think that it's because our eyes have become, you know, so, you know, desensitized to sort of a normal, nice, regular, old, beautiful home that we need something that's kind of extreme and crazy. I don't know. I clearly could talk about this for a long time. I think we're running out of time on the podcast here, but kudos to House and Garden and Claudia Bailey for bringing this up, because I think it's a fascinating issue.

32:17I agree. And I'm grateful to so many designers who wrote in to share their thoughts with me. It's a really interesting issue. And maybe it's a panel that I need to put together and have some people at High Point or elsewhere to talk about it, because it's a fun one. All right. That's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including four designers on how they advertise their services and our guide to High Point Market. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

32:50This break is brought to you by Newport Brass, trusted by designers for more than three decades. Newport Brass has handcrafted solid brass kitchen and bath faucets made to last for generations. With a palette of 22 finishes and endless configurations, Newport Brass gives every project presence, purpose, and distinction. See what's possible at newportbrass.com. Imagine having the hottest products in home furnishings right at your fingertips, and at your doorstep in days. Imagine walking through a showroom where every turn of your head is an aha moment, and every turn of a corner takes you into a new world of inspiration.

33:35Stop imagining and start experiencing. You'll find the best of today in the best place at High Point Market. Stop into the Chelsea House showroom at High Point Market, 200 North Hamilton, October 23rd through the 29th. Or visit online at chelseahouseinc.com.

33:58And we're back. I'm joined now by the founder and editor-in-chief of Cultured Magazine, Sarah Harrelson. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you so much for having me on today. For those who might not be familiar, tell us about Cultured, and we'll get into a little bit of the history of how it came about, but just tell people what it is. It is a print magazine, first and foremost, chronicling, covering the art world. And then from there, we branch out. We touch film, we touch food, we touch literature. And we often look at how those creative industries intersect. and of course, you know, we're a very print first product.

34:43You know, I started the magazine in 2012 and I invested in paper. That was something that was very important to me early on. Had I known how expensive it would have been, I maybe would have reconsidered that first leap into my very luscious matte paper. Of course, we have a robust digital platform as how could we not, but I do tend to think about cultured as, you know, a print first publication and a, you know, a storytelling platform that is really interested in emerging talent, is really interested in covering people that perhaps have been overlooked by mainstream media. And as you know, we're on deadline now for my 10th annual Young Artist List, which has been something that has been incredibly important to me and to the mission and ethos of the magazine.

35:33And, you know, I always feel as if, you know, you're holding someone's career in your hands or you're holding their story. And that's dear to them. And how you tell it, you know, really matters. And let's talk about what had informed that vision that you had. I am a lover of print magazines. I am an absolute, utter fan and lover of print media since I was in college, maybe even before. The art world was more new to me. I didn't grow up in the art world. I hadn't necessarily covered the art world until a few years before I started the magazine. And when I started the magazine and, you know, I was really excited and I was really, truly and sincerely interested in all these parts of the creative world and the contemporary art world.

36:26So I think my, you know, I had two lenses, right? So I think my lens for content was that. And then also I had, although I had been an editor in chief in several different scenarios, I never really had full creative freedom, right? And so all of a sudden I had visual freedom. And so my other lens was like, I just want to kind of like do this a little bit differently and lay it out a little bit differently and kind of truly break some of the rules that had been ingrained in me. Well, and I'm curious to that point, what you have learned it takes. So having a passion for print magazines and having 80 pound paper stock and a great big oversized book, what does it take to support that in today's world where everyone wants to tell you all the reasons why print publications don't work in the same way that they once did and that the economics of it are just vastly different.

37:24What did you discover you had to do to continue to make the magazine you wanted to make? It takes a lot. But I believe anything takes a lot. This constant like print is dead does tend to drive me crazy because I just don't really think it's accurate, not necessarily for cultured, but for anyone. I mean, I go to the newsstand in New York City and I see, I constantly discover new amazing titles. I see stacks and stacks of magazines. I wait in line to buy magazines. So is the print world what it was when I entered it? Unrecognizable, not even close. But does it still matter? Absolutely. A hundred percent.

37:59We're not treated the same way that we were 20 years ago. It's not valued the same way. And, and doing it is, is hard work no matter what level you do it on. So, you know, I think it takes, you know, being a good listener, being agile, being flexible, being able to move quickly through things. I mean, you know, I've been called on a Tuesday and said, can you do an event on a Friday? And I'm like, sure. I've been called on a Tuesday and said, can you shoot in the outskirts of Italy on Thursday? And I say, sure. You know, so it's like, you know, we're able, I mean, and again, that's what I love about a small company.

38:32We're able to move quickly. We're able to turn things around quickly. And, you know, sometimes I think when a small team comes together and they have a shared passion and a shared goal, you pitch above your weight. And print is still 51 % of our revenue. So I think that, sure, I know everyone says, oh, it's a brand or this one's a brand. And to me, it's semantics. But I think what is important in a magazine today is to really have a relationship with your reader base. So let's talk about the art world because the art world has has changed a great deal. And so from from the people that you talk to and what you see, lots of media coverage in the last few months about, oh, the the art world prices aren't going for what they were a few years ago.

39:24Everyone perceives there's this shift or slowdown in the marketplace. Is that how the art world tends to see it? Is that what is really happening? Undoubtedly, undoubtedly right now. What do you think, or what do your colleagues think is at the center of that? I mean, I think that's complicated to answer, and there's a lot of factors going into it. And I also think that, let's call it end of 2020, 21, 22, was an art world like no other, right? There were, as you know, been well-documented, you know, 500 people waiting lists to get, you know, a painter that no one's heard of. And so it kind of, it reached this fever pitch.

40:04And so I think, of course, it had to normalize. And I don't believe that we are in a place of, you know, I think a lot of people are concerned about young people being more interested in experiences versus objects, then kind of the next generation of young collector, of young philanthropist, however you want to look at it. I meet a lot of really, and even some last week, young collectors, you know, call it under 40, people who are really intrigued by the world. You know, I think in my opinion, it will continue. The young collectors will continue to grow and have interest. And, you know, as I leave from London tomorrow night, I feel like every single person I know is going to, you know, the art fairs and will be in London and Paris.

40:47And there's a lot of amazing things to see and, you know, people to come together. So I believe strongly in that. And I also believe strongly that a little correction is good. So when you go to London, are there are there events that that Cultured is is doing as part of the art fairs that are going on? Yeah. I mean, we're this year we're just doing we're doing a very small breakfast at the Dorchester. And that will bring together, you know, curators and artists and dealers and collectors. and then in Paris we are launching Cultured at Home, our new magazine, More Print, at a collector's home on Wednesday night.

41:26So those are our two events. Well, so let's talk about that. So let's talk about this Paris introduction and let's talk about Cultured at Home and what that is. So, I mean, I think, you know, I thought long and hard before, of course, I started another print publication, but my editor is a woman named Alexander Cunningham, who I have known since, I think since before I started the magazine, she was involved with Design Miami early on. She's incredibly talented, has incredible vision, and we work well together. So I kind of had all of these things making me feel comfortable to take this leap into another print publication.

42:05And also, I think a little bit just about the design world on a whole. And I think there was room for something a little different. Tell me where the white space is in the home world that you felt that you were coming into. I mean, I think it's just kind of like, you know, kind of looking, you know, what's out there and what what does very well and figuring out, is there another path? Is there a different way to look at this world? Are there different kinds of people that we want to cover? And, you know, Aaron Knutzen, who was our creative director, and Alexandra came together. And we've just we've kind of looked at it in a really unique, I think, way instead of necessarily just through like, you know, a designer lens.

42:47It's more of how like people who've had this rich life or creativity and how they choose to live. But are the Kardashians represented? I mean, really? I mean, is that is there room for that? I'm not going to say that I would kick a Kardashian out, but there are no Kardashians The first issue does not have Kardashians. We can confirm that. Okay. We can confirm that. But anyway, so I'm very excited to bring this. I'm very proud. I'm very proud of what we put together. And I think it's important to keep pushing. I think it's important to keep challenging yourself. I think it's important to keep forward momentum.

43:30And And that's what this is. I mean, it's not a not calculated risk, but it's a risk. Sure. And how much is a copy of Cultured at Home going to be? What's the news? $50. Right? $50. I saw you were making fun of$30. So this one's even more. I know. But I mean, that's interesting. And you've chosen to go that route and to say, look, this is how much it costs. And I don't know what your subscriber base is for Cultured, but I know you've got a core subscriber base. And then I'm assuming you sell a lot of one-off. Of course. I don't know how big newsstand is for you. And also, I mean, I think it's kind of, you know, I mean, I launched also the paywall for the Cultured site in June.

44:16And, you know, I think it's just also signaling kind of there's a lot that goes into this. And it matters. And it costs money. You know, I think it's kind of that simple. And most people show up for it. But yes, no. I mean, look, it's all scary, of course. I mean, we're all battling for eyeballs every single day and listeners and all of the things. But yes, no, it was great. I'm thrilled I did it. I wish I did it sooner. Is that how you feel? You wish you had done it sooner now that it's happened? Like a year ago sooner. So because it's leading to that many conversions for you. Mm-hmm. Well, so to that point about competing for eyeballs and what you have to do, What are you finding today is what generates the traffic?

44:56What's getting people's attention? I mean, I think for us, it's a combination, right? It's old-fashioned service journalism. Here are 14 shows you need to see in London next week. Here are 10 solo shows not to miss. And seeing where traffic comes from is really interesting. I tend to look at Instagram, newsletter, web, print. I tend to look at them kind of as little, tiny, mini businesses. and on occasion one feeds to the other you know I think it's kind of that constant conversation do you want someone to stay on your newsletter are you trying to drive them to your website or you want you know and I'm always like well both well it depends well it depends on the story it depends on you know so I think um obviously newsletter drives a lot of traffic I think Instagram from what I understand drives a little bit less to our site than industry standard but I know that as I'm sure as you know these things change sure I mean we we try you know headlines are so important.

45:48You know, I just recently looked at our top stories of the year. And of course, Cult 100, as of right now, is a top story. Our Walton Goggins story is very high up. But I think in what month are we in? October. I think in the month of September, our top 10 stories, eight of them were literature stories, writers, new books. And food is a growing vertical for us. We just did a story on 25 chefs giving recommendations, which was widely shared. And that's the other thing that I think is exciting, frankly, about media is like how these metrics change it's like now we just want certain amount of shares and we want to start you know it's just you know looking at what what people respond to and why um in a given day we don't do we do some news within the art world but we don't do like all news which is a little bit unique um so we just feel if it's something that's like very important to our audience like of course the big amy sherald announcement with the museum with her you know painting um getting censored we obviously immediately posted that, but we don't always post breaking news within that world.

46:49But when we do, it does very well. And criticism, fairly new. So criticism is about 14 months old. We started that and it's done unbelievably well. I mean, it's another thing that it's like, I think our top stories were like three of the top stories were from the Critics Table, which is a platform. And it's funny because when I started the magazine, I didn't want to do criticism. I was like, I want to be different. I don't want to do what I want to be very profile-led and do it a different way. And then, of course, the media landscape shifted. And I felt like this was such an important moment, and this is such an important thing to artists.

47:25I mean, if you look at our subscriber base at the Critics Table, it's almost half artists. I mean, artists want this. And I'm so lucky to work with people like Johanna Faitman and John Vinsler. And then, of course, they also hire certain critics each week to do our weekly in briefs and our roundups. And that platform has exceeded all of my goals. So why did artists want the criticism? Of course, they want someone to tell them how they feel about their work and to read about other artists, critically. And to read about other artists and what they're saying about them. It's interesting. And part of the reason that I ask is because we often talk on this show about the fact that we don't have criticism in the home world.

48:07There's nobody who's writing, hey, this is a great interior and here's why, or this is less great and here's what I think they're trying to do, but they're not doing it, whatever. We don't have that. And it's one of the few areas where it doesn't exist and people are very divided about whether they want it or don't want it or how they feel about it or don't.

48:34But mean, I think obviously the dealers do too, but I think the artists really want it. I mean, you know, it's such an important part of the landscape. It's such, you know, to have such important writers talk about your work is, it's invaluable and it needs to be supported. One of the things I want to come back to is I love the fact that you mentioned good old-fashioned service journalism, which we actually talk about quite a bit on the show. And yes, and this used to be such an important role that publications played. Now, interestingly, somebody in the editorial world was saying to me recently, well, if ever anything is going away because of AI, it's service journalism.

49:15That will all be replaced by some AI bot that will have been trained on all the answers that you can get to whatever. And we do see that lots of traffic is going away to sites that used to answer various questions, right, on the site. And if that was all that was leading traffic to your site instead of great editorial content or whatever else, then sure, you've probably taken a great big hit because Google Gemini or ChatGPT can answer all those questions for you now. But you have to come up with the better content and the better answers of things you need to do at this show or what you need to pack for London and Paris.

49:54You tell me. I mean, sure. I mean, I think I was, we had a partnership recently with Samsung and I sat next to one of the executives who was partly responsible for launching YouTube in Asia. And he was a little bit older than I am. And he was talking about, you know, certain tech revolutionary moments. And he was saying he's never, ever seen a technology like AI and how it gets better every single day. But I think, you know, of course, AI is going to, I mean, let's hope, be additive to whatever. If we figure out how to, I figure I have no idea. But I also think, and of course, like our service journalism has such a lens, right?

50:36Like it's like, it's kind of a little bit different, I think. But interestingly enough, one of our top stories this summer was we were all brainstorming and my team came up with this idea. And they said, we want to do the temperature of the museums at certain museums. We want to do, you know, here's the temperature at, you know, the seven best museums in New York City. And I thought, are you sure? Are you crazy? Anyway, it was one of our top stories of summer. So I think also having that, you can take an editorial tone to service journalism, right? And of course, when we do top stories, we do quite a bit of research into what stories are being included and what shows, excuse me, what shows are being included and what shows aren't being included.

51:16and why and parts of the city and what kind of artist and level career. And, you know, we take a lot into that list. I'm sure AI could come up with a great list, but it would be a different list. So we'll see. We'll see what role this all plays. And I think that kind of goes back to having a small enough company that you can be reactive. I think it's important to really to watch the trends and see how people, what people react to, why they react to it. Not that you always know, but I think that's really important. I mean, obviously, podcasting is such a wonderful medium, too. And we've seen that grow a lot.

51:51But it's also now very crowded, too. Yeah, no, absolutely. A lot of people have come into the space, and it seems so easy to do. And people think, sure, we can have that as well. It's interesting, they that's a medium that they thought was going away for a time. Oh, you know, but then suddenly, it's it's skyrocketed. And so to your point, you can never really tell. You can never really tell, but it's also like, I mean, you know, they all have such an important place. I mean, like when I listen to a podcast, I just have such a different feeling than reading an article. Like it's like, they're all important.

52:22I mean, we don't have, we need a podcast, but we don't have it. Well, we'll talk. We'll talk, exactly. But it's interesting because, and we were talking about earlier about print media. And so when I worked at Conde Nast, one of the big company-wide presentations was the point of passion. And every publication was talking about how, you know, whether you were reading Golf Magazine or The New Yorker or Architectural Digest, people just felt so passionate about the particular subject matter that they bothered to pay a subscription for, that they looked forward to the arrival of this thing in their mailbox.

53:02And it was something that they made time for, sat down, got their drink, whatever it was, got their cup of coffee and said, now I'm going to spend time with this magazine that feels so personal to me. And podcasts are the same way. If you listen to the same podcast, chances are you like that person's voice or you like how that person presents information or whatever it is, and it becomes comforting to you. It becomes like, oh, yes, okay, this, the world is pretty stressful right now. Let me go escape into listening to this. And I think that's the opportunity, again, that whether it's print or digital, you have the opportunity to make this very deep personal connection that people become really, really passionate about.

53:50I think so too. And I think, you know, that is, I mean, obviously, lifestyle media or things that are, you know, maybe too broad have had, you know, maybe they've had a harder time in recent decades. But I think, I mean, I would imagine that the golf magazine still does well. Or, you know, like, you know, these slightly more niche and targeted content lenses appealing to people's passion in certain areas. They feel like they have to read. Those are important things. And incredibly important, I think, to, as a media platform, continue cultivating, you know, and And look, we talk about change. The style of writing has changed.

54:28Yes. I mean, the way people read newsletters, the way people write newsletters, the way people write profiles. All of these things evolve. I mean, I'm always asking everyone on my team, what do you read? How do you read? When do you read? Why do you click on that? Why did you click on that? Would you click on this subject line? I'm constantly intrigued by different people, different age groups, and what they read. I know my kids are all, they're big readers, and they pay for subscriptions. I mean, they've never even thought that they couldn't pay. They have all the subscriptions. So, and I think, you know, now with the rise of Substack and, you know, that has a place too.

55:02But I still argue that people's media diet has changed, right? So when we started or I started, it was like you read a magazine or you watch TV. And now I think people's media diet's really different. It's like, you know, a podcast here, a Substack there. And I think, I honestly think that's positive. But before I let you go, tell me about how you're thinking about Cultured at Home. So the first issue is coming out in Paris and you're going to see it any day now. When you finally sent it off to the printer, are you thinking, OK, this is something we're going to do a few times a year? This is something.

55:37How are you imagining it? Yeah, I mean, I think I think next year we're going to do it once again. I mean, it is it is truly an object. It is, you know, truly something that is kind of like a little bit of a time capsule. and I think that my team is small and there's only, you know, there's only, you have to really think about where you put your attention and where you put your energy and how much you can handle before there's a breaking point and we do a lot and it was a big book to get out the door and we're thrilled and we're proud and we think that next year, one time of year is the right choice for us with how much we publish everything else and obviously all the content will, of course, roll out on Culture's digital platform over the next, you know, three to five months.

56:23And next year we'll do it again. And then we'll kind of have a reassess and see if we want to go to two times a year. And do you want a bunch of designers to be sending you projects? Is that how you're putting it together? Or is it more that you're creating things and selecting things in your own, through your own lens to your point? I've always been that kind of editor where it's kind of like, it's somehow more rewarding to find the story. But I mean, of course people pitch us all the time and we're constantly reviewing and friends with many designers and trying to find interesting projects. And the reason why we would publish them in a different way than, say, another shelter magazine would.

57:02And I think what we will do is we will continue a steady stream of content online. There will be a cultured at home drop-down menu on our website, and we will continue to do some of the digital verticals, create some of the content within our digital verticals and roll it out. So there's a consistency throughout until the next print one comes out. And do you imagine showing up in the home world in much the same way that you have the art world? Can you imagine being at various furniture fairs or markets, Maison et Objet, for example, or Deco off the big fabric show in Paris? Can you imagine being there in some meaningful way?

57:41We will, we will, we have special issues going to, to pad London. And I think, you know, obviously Design Miami is very important to us. So I think we'll see. I mean, we'll, we'll, we'll see what opportunities present themselves and where it makes sense to have the magazine. Okay. Okay. But it sounds like we won't have to wait long to see Cultured at Home. You can order it online right now. You can order it online right now and it's only 50 bucks. So, I mean, why not get more than one copy? Right? I mean, but I'm so glad to get to talk to you. And I can't wait to see the magazine. And I appreciate your time very much.

58:20I really appreciate your time. And I hope to meet you.

58:26And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Forever caught your eye. I'm going to swing it back to Kelly for a second. So we were talking about Kelly Wurstler's new side hustle gallery. And one thing that really caught my eye that I have to sort of do a deeper dive on was in a Financial Times article about this gallery. They said that Kelly Wurstler's revenue from her product business was$150 million. Now, I don't know if that's an annual number, if that's a lifetime number, if that's everything in the Kelly Wurstler bucket, including her visual comfort license and everything else.

59:00but you so rarely see numbers like that in these kinds of articles that it really jumped out at me because that is extremely high and you know kudos to kelly for you know being an excellent business person in addition to a creative talent but i'm really going to try and find out what that number means because that one uh certainly caught my eye i don't know if it got your eye dennis um but uh it jumped out at me it certainly did it makes me wonder what i'm doing wrong exactly she's making that why is our furniture business only making 10 million dollars a year anyway uh the other thing that got my eye was a great article by our friend Leonora Epstein of Shmata, the Substack, excellent Substack.

59:35She actually was writing for Architectural Digest, an article called Our Tech Bro Homes, The New Gilded Age Mansions, which I think is a great subject. It's just talking about like, we look back on the robber barons as these great patrons of architecture. In 100 years, are we going to look back on the Silicon Valley homes and giant modernist cubist mansions the same way. There's an interesting sort of exploration of that idea and a good reason to check out Leonora's work. I actually think she's having an in-person meetup for her Substack here in New York later in October. I'll be going to that.

1:00:07So come on, swing on by for the Substack IRL events as they come. Dennis, what caught your eye this week? Well, I love that. We'll have to find out more about that. I was fortunate enough yesterday, I was at the New York Design Center, and I got to pop into the newly opened Christopher Farr Cloth showroom and chatted briefly with the founder and creative director, McCall Silver. And she gave me a quick tour of the new space. Very exciting to have them there at the New York Design Center. That's on the seventh floor. And then I got to race up to the tenth floor for an event for Dovetail, which was having a big kickoff event there.

1:00:47They were giving some tours around the building to highlight all of the English and British makers and designers that were involved. Hats off to Sabine Rothman and Victoria Murray, who are co-founders of Dovetail. And guest on the show, Sarah Spateri from Homes and Gardens was there as well. She was taking some people around, and that was great to see get off the ground. Also, I wanted to mention we talked about Corey Damon Jenkins at the top of the show. I will be chatting live with Corey at the New York School of Interior Design on October 30th at the NYSID Auditorium. You can get tickets for that because I am kicking off my Dialogues on Design season for NYSID.

1:01:29We've got a lot of amazing guests that are lined up. In addition to Corey, we've got Andre Malone is coming. Nicole Hollis is coming. And even Ken Falk will be joining us in the spring. So looking forward to that. We've got a lot of good people lined up and always a good conversation raising money for scholarship funds at NYCID. So I hope as many as possible will join me live in New York. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com.

1:02:11This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Kastaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend and we'll be back with you on Monday.