The Thursday Show: Emily Henderson is flexing new muscles. Plus: RH's CEO sounds the alarm on tariffs

23:48They'll just post and assume that it's going to be okay. And for some big brands, I'm sure they probably make the calculation of like, okay, if we get sued for a couple grand here and there, fine, that's worth it to go at the speed we need to go to promote our product. So I think even as the cultural reality of this catches up with the industry and people know that they're not supposed to do it, I think some people still will do it and just bank on we're either not going to get sued or we'll settle for a relatively negligible amount of money. I don't know. Am I wrong? Well, I do think people are pushing a lot more boundaries these days, Fred.

24:18Not us. We respect the boundaries. Well, I think we do try and respect them. But I think other people are thinking, let me see if I get caught or let me see how much I have to pay afterwards. I mean, again, it's not dissimilar to the conversation we were having last week in the context of the artificial intelligence settlements where they obviously knew that they were stealing all of this content and educating the large language models on them. And then they finally settled with various writers and other people. And I think there's that kind of mood in the air with some of this, which I don't want to be the case.

24:54I'm sure that's what all the high point brands are thinking. We're just like open AI. No, my point in that was that I think often some people feel it's worth just taking the chance and seeing if they get caught and they can apologize and make some settlement later. Sure. But I also think that the problem with that is that it just so rewards the big people who have money to burn. You know what I mean? It's like, think about you're like a small time blogger who posts an interview with a designer. You put up some images you think are okay. A letterer shows up in the mail asking for 10 grand. That's huge.

25:24Whereas a large brand, I'm sure we know some of them who may or may not have been sued, it's not a big deal for them to pay out a few grand to deal with this. So as always, it's sort of unfortunate that the system ends up rewarding people who have the money to burn. But I don't know. I'm hopeful that the culture will change. And I'm hopeful that someone will come up with a technological solution that allows a brand, okay, you want to pay a couple hundred bucks to license a photo or whatever it costs, you just click a few buttons as opposed to having to go through the administrative steps. Because I think that's, in some ways, the real problem here, not the money.

25:55But we'll see. No, I agree. And I think it's great that Haley wrote about it. And I think it's great that BOH continues to write about it. And we keep talking about it because I do think it's an issue that everybody wants to get resolved. So hopefully, just having a better understanding of all of this will lead to that. I think we just solved it. There you go. Our conversation. Problem fixed. God, we are bringing people together, Fred. I feel great. Moving on, we're going to talk about luxury. Just in time for Fashion Week, the Washington Post surveyed members of the fashion industry to get their take on what luxury means today.

26:30God, it's a burning question, isn't it, Fred? What does luxury mean? Luxury today means being able to record the podcast in person. That's... This feels so luxurious, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess, like, I just want to start with, does luxury, does that word even mean anything anymore? Is the word luxury over at this point? What do you think? Well, again, can I bring it back to RH and Kerry Friedman for a moment, just because - That's not a character for us. I know, I know. We hardly ever refer to him. It's interesting that he wants to be sure to say that he has a luxury furniture business or a luxury home business.

27:08And so I think there There are some people that think luxury is a very important element in what they're doing. And I think in other cases, there's just this broad assumption that certainly if you're hiring an interior designer, if you're hiring an architect, if you're buying fabric that is hundreds of dollars a yard, that surely luxury is implied within all that and doesn't need to be stated or that perhaps what we might perceive as luxury isn't even the end goal for so many people that want their homes to be done by a professional. Does that make sense? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think in RH's case, I think it's because Gary Friedman wants to be associated with the fashion houses that are almost in this business category of luxury, like LVMH is unquestionably a luxury brand.

27:59I almost wonder just if the word luxury is kind of washed at this point. I feel like there used to be so much in the industry around luxury and lifestyles, the rich and famous. And I feel like we just don't, I don't, you know, people don't pitch themselves to me saying, we are a luxury brand anymore. What I really want is luxury. But I don't know, maybe I'm just talking to people in the wrong demographic. I don't know. Does your cohort talk about luxury a lot? Is that word so powerful? Well, I mean, to your point, I think there never used to be a design building event that there wasn't at least some panel talking about what is luxury and what does it mean and how do you create it?

28:36And the shelter magazines would have a special luxury issue, even though all of the issues felt like they were pretty high end or luxurious, but there would always be one that would just be the luxury issue. Now it's going to be really luxurious. And again, you talk to designers. I had a conversation with Nick Olson. I mentioned we were going to be talking about this. And he said, listen, some clients are more showy than others. Some people want that throw with the H on it to be in the shot. You get it. And then others, that's not what it's about. But I so rarely talk to designers who are trying to create create a feel of luxury.

29:19I think what they're trying to create is a feeling of home and warmth and security and serenity and all of those other things. And maybe to the point of this article, maybe that is what luxury means today. You know, in this piece, when they talked about what these different fashion executives felt about, oh, luxury is time to myself or luxury is when I can block my phone from bothering me. One person said for 72 hours, really, you can get away from your phone for 72 hours. Good for you. I want to learn how to do that. But so, I mean, I think your point that it, what does it mean today? I think clearly it means something very different.

29:54Yeah. Well, I mean, I think like, you know, maybe in the 1980s and 1990s, like, you know, the concept of luxury and, you know, gold, everything, and, you know, the value of materials was really, you know, important and valuable. I was not covering the industry at that time, so I don't want to overgeneralize, but I do think that, you know, it had a certain draw to it, this idea of luxury and material wealth. And I think that like in general, whether it's true or not, I think there's a lot of lip service paid to the idea that what clients and people want from their homes these days is more about authenticity and, you know, the storytelling of it all and comfort.

30:28And I think that, you know, to some degree that might be the same thing by another name. And maybe this is all about marketing as opposed to anything else. But I do think it's really telling that, you know, when you ask people their definition of luxury, largely the answer is freedom and time. And so I think that's just so, I feel like designers, and this is the classic thing I talk about all the time, is like what designers sell their services with is like a beautiful image of a beautiful room. That's the first step for most people who are hiring a designer. But the real luxurious value may be simply that you're like giving your client the freedom not to think about it.

31:00They don't have to sit there on first dibs waiting for the right piece to come up. They don't have to coordinate an installation. And that is really the luxury that people seem to value these days. So is there a way for interior designers to say, yes, my service is luxury, not because I can give you the blanket with the H on it, but because I can give you hours away from your phone or hours away from having to deal with this problem. And so, yeah, I feel like if there's a way to market your services in a way that conveys like, hey, I will not only give you a beautiful home, I will give you your time back.

31:28I think that's impactful. Yeah. And I mean, I think that what's clear is that luxury means so many different things to different people. And so I sort of love the fact that for many people, luxury is just the simplicity of time or more time with family or just getting away from all the stress and tension of - If you're getting away on a private chat, though, there's nothing. Well, I mean, I know. I feel like - If you're getting that time away from stress on a blanket with an H on it, you're doing well. Well, and if you're on the RH yacht, I'm betting that you are feeling pretty luxurious. And so more power to them.

32:08But I think it's obviously a word that has a lot of different meanings. And I hope that we'll get to hear from designers who listen to this segment and can tell us what it means to them and to their clients. Because that's what I'm really interested in. Does it resonate with clients in the same way that it used to? All right. That's it for the news. but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including October's Can't Miss Design Events and the best debuts from Paris Design Week. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

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34:00And we're back. I'm joined now by designer Emily Henderson. Emily, welcome back. Thank you, Dennis. When was I here? Two, three years ago? Exactly. It's been far too long. Thrilled that you're back. We have so much to catch up on. Rumor has it you've got yourself a little furniture collection, so I'm eager to talk about that. This is my first podcast where we've talked about it, by the way, so you're probably going to get some exclusive information, Dennis. Well, I mean, then let's jump right into it. If that's the case, if exclusive information is waiting, let's get to it. So let's explain room service.

34:43Okay, okay. So here's how it went down. When Sean and Clay approached me, Sean from The Bachelor, and I'm a fan of his, he's very funny. And, you know, and I was like, Oh, this will be an interesting conversation, if nothing else. And it went really well. And essentially, what they proposed was that they with their experience and the furniture industry, like that they would essentially do all the operations. They're like, all you have to do is use your creativity to design some pieces of furniture. And that sounded pretty good to me. And they were not going to like, there was no stepping on toes.

35:23There was no like, we're not co-designing. We have very different aesthetics. And so it was really just a lot of creative freedom within the scope of the budget that we wanted to stick to for the consumer. And I have to say, like, there's a lot of awesome furniture out there, to be honest. A lot of it is affordable and good. So that's when we had to go back and talk and be like, what feels like it's missing? What's the hole in the market that we could possibly fill for consumers and for our readers and for people like me that can't seem to find a really great statement sofa that's also kid and family and pet friendly?

36:01So that's the angle that I took to it. And it's been really fun. So it took about a year and a half of conversations, probably a year from design until it actually came out. And there were some bumps along the way with the tariff situation, as you probably are very well aware of. Too aware, yeah. Yep. It came out in late August, and it's been really fun. It's been really wild. Well, that's great. And I feel like we sped through that. And I don't know that everybody caught that it was Sean Lowe who reached out to you from The Bachelor. And he tells the story of reaching out. And, you know, I think he probably thought you weren't sure whether he was really serious or whether what this was about.

36:46I mean, I didn't realize that he and Catherine had a furniture company. I didn't know that. So when he he approached, I definitely. Yeah, I was curious. I was like, where's this conversation going here? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And he's really great. He has a great business mind. So does Clay. Like they've definitely they have a very clear role and they've done it really well. And they have I haven't had to like step in and try and troubleshoot or figure out anything. They just have done a really good job of taking care of the business and the operations end of it. so I can focus on the design and the marketing.

37:23Like we did all the photos in-house. We did all the videos and social and everything in-house up here, which was very fun and what we wanted to do. But so there was definitely a lot of independence and creative freedom. And in your mind, how does all of that fit in with where your business is these days? What was the appeal of, hey, sure, furniture collection, let's do it? But timing wise, it just felt like, let's give this a go. See if we like doing it. See if it's successful. See if it's fun. See if it's all the things that see if it's lucrative. And it's like, you know, that has to be obviously good for the business.

38:01And so that it was just a new muscle to flex. And I'm a little nervous about flexing new muscles, to be honest, Dennis. I every time a really new opportunity comes, sometimes my reaction is like, oh, I don't know. I just know how to do what I'm doing so well. right now? Like, do I, you know, do I want to try and take a new risk? And so it, but this has been on our mind for a long time. And so it just seems like the right time and the right opportunity to just to try to flex a new muscle. Well, I mean, it, it, it seemed like it was a really big deal. And then as you say, I'm assuming some speed bumps just in figuring out, Oh wait, suddenly April comes and there's this big tariff announcement and uh and and the timing of all of that and frankly we're we're still not entirely sure what's happening we're not we're not we yeah we ended up moving to a factory in america so they are american made which is fantastic and it also means that the lead time is much shorter that um the communication the fabric like there's a lot of things that are actually easier because of it um so but that was that definitely delayed the launch for sure.

39:13But it was it was a problem that thankfully I didn't have to try and solve. Sean and Clay were totally on it and they did a really good job. So I am really pleased to say that everything is made in America. And that's what the administration wants, Emily. So that is that is great. That that's what these tariffs are supposed to be doing, bringing that business back to America. So thanks so much for doing your part. And and is it has it been well received? Are you feeling like, yeah, you know, it's a big deal to buy a sofa and these sofas are, they're not super trendy, but they're not so trendy that I think that in five years going to be like, oh my gosh, that's such a 2025 sofa.

39:54Well, it's interesting because we were talking about trends recently, and so were you. And I'm curious, you had a post just recently about looking back on some of the things that you had thought about. And I'm wondering how you even think about talking about trends these days. because, and again, I get it, media needs to create lots of trend reports and color reports, and we need to introduce new colors and get people excited. But I wonder what really turns out to be meaningful when you think about that. How people are living in their homes changes, right? Based on a lot of that is, you know, we went from lockdown to where we are now.

40:36And obviously, there's a pretty big shift in how we live in our homes there. And I think a lot of the more macro trends that I actually care about that seem worth talking about are more about how people experience their home rather than the color palette or whatever. So like right now, it seems to be that people are wanting more like warmth, stuff, eclecticism, maximalism. I think that's all probably because the years of lockdown, people wanted things simpler because there was a lot of chaos in their home. And so I think that there's something to pay attention to with trends for sure. But yeah, like to your point, it's pretty hard every year to be like, what is this year's big kitchen trend?

41:19At the same time, we really deep dive into all those things because a lot of them are very good ideas. So we call them new ideas, but we still have to use the word trend because people really respond to that word. It's really just like, what are the new ideas that are happening right now that are kind of interesting and stylish and that our editors are seeing out there as something worth talking about. I remember years ago when we talked about the California casual trend for the first time. And that was more of a huge movement. It wasn't like, now this color is in. It just felt like the world was shifting towards this very neutral, very casual, inviting, kind of warm, elevated vibe.

42:00And now that's obviously shifted again. But I don't know, following the macro ones, I think are really interesting. The little micro ones, I find them fun, like a hobby. Yeah. It seems like we're still writing a lot about the grand millennial trend and like you were saying, stuff and the maximalism. And even I feel like part of that, and I was talking to a British editor the other day and saying like, you know, how much of that is partially we love this English country style still that feels very layered and warm kitchens and cute little lamps in the kitchen sort of feel, right? All of that. And I feel, is that some transformation that we've undergone or is that just been always sort of underlying?

42:51Yeah, I don't know, Des. I think it's all the things. I think that it was a reversal from just where everything was like neutral and light and kind of wood and white and safe. And, you know, things were starting to look pretty same, same. I mean, I think I was a part of that as well, obviously. And I think people just wanted more. And now, I mean, I love watching the Gen Z generation of decoration. I think it is so fun and exciting. And it reminds me a lot of how I was in my 20s, which was just full of color and experimentation and just using my house as a style laboratory, doing really weird things.

43:33Some of it was cool. Some of it was definitely not cool. But I watch it and I'm like, good for them. Like, I think that there's just a lot of really fun things happening that I'm really into, too, you know, that aren't just, you know, for someone in their 20s, but it just there's a freedom and there's just like a willingness to be experimental that is really fun to watch. But it's just a really fun kind of world to live in, which is one of the things I love about staying in digital media. Well, and so talk to me about that. I mean, because funny enough, before we came on the air, we were sort of joking about you still do a blog.

44:08And today we're talking about Substacks or we're talking about all of this different media. I'm wondering how you are navigating that and thinking about it. Yeah. So we have probably maybe a year and a half ago really made the decision. And we've always written like this. But about a year and a half ago, we're like, clearly AI is coming for us, obviously. And they scraped my books. You know, they're like, if you Google how to, what size rug should go in your living room, the article that we used to write used to come up. And now it, you know, the AI version comes up instead. So we knew that was happening and you can't stop it.

44:46So we have been shifting the content to be more personal. It's always been really personal, but even more personal and really opinion based and not AI-able essentially. and uh so the we might write a post in the past that was like how to hang curtains we wouldn't write that now because it almost sounds like an ai would have written it you know so most of our posts just just to have have an opinion have have a real expert that's talking about it uh whatever it is and and or a personal story so that's i mean and it's generally been fine honestly like I think that traffic is down a little bit from last year.

45:29I mean, traffic is down from, you know, it's peak at 2021, 2020. There were high traffic years because everybody was home and everybody was working on their homes. So I don't think trying to reach, you know, that peak again will be that easy. But since then, it's kind of maintained. And we just try and mix it up, but always have it be from a person in hopes that we can remain people on the Internet. But we don't know how long we really don't. Right. So we're just but we we still love it. The audience is still there. And until they're not, we're going to keep doing it. So so redoing a staffer's apartment, for example, helps to make it personal and helps to.

46:09And right. And there's real opinion. So here was her place and it was this empty box and we redid it. And so that's a that's a real story and not sort of a able in that in that way. Yeah. I mean, people connect to the human being, obviously. And same with me. I mean, people, they know me pretty well. And I've definitely pulled back the personal content probably the last five years because sometimes the vulnerability is just too stressful, honestly. Like, you know, things being taken out of context or whatever. But I want to get back into it. I really do. You do? I do. I do. And there, there is probably a plan for that, but, um, and I'm talking about really personal stuff, not just the, like in my house blog posts, but this, the stuff about like the behind the scenes of the business, the behind the scenes of social media, there's a lot of juicy stuff there.

47:02And, um, should I leak this? I might leak this. Well, I'll just say this unless, this doesn't happen, there is a plan for a sub stack that's a very different angle from the blog. Okay, I wondered because I would assume that you saw a sub stack and you can't ignore everything, right? No, and I mean if you're thinking of writing a blog, obviously at this point, probably not. Stop it. Yeah, just do a sub stack or Instagram or TikTok, whichever platform is you're most aligned with. I still can't do TikTok. I can't. Can you? Well, no, I stay away from it. But, you know, and listen, we were told it was all going away.

47:52Now it's obviously not going away. The White House has a TikTok account, so I assume it's staying. That's a pretty good signal that it's not leaving anytime soon. But I feel like it's still, I mean, it's huge force, obviously, but I feel like in the design world, old it's still not i don't know instagram still seems to be yeah right the the big place where it's all going on and and instagram and all the algorithmic changes has changed so dramatically as well and and even people with huge followings it's it's so hit or miss why did this resonate why did that not i mean i don't know if you've figured any of that out or stopped stressing about it all together.

48:34We have figured, we figured it all out, Dennis. And we'll be revealing that in our new Substack. That's all about how we cracked the Instagram code. I can't wait to read that. I am so thankful for my team because there are times when I think we've done something so good and I'm so proud about like this. Now this is about to go viral. And I don't know, we just try different things every single day. And it is, it's a wild ride. We learn a lot. And I really, I really have to not be sensitive. Like you really have to just have a thick skin and be like, we tried something and we put it out there. And often I don't even look at the numbers because I don't know, like, you know, we'll recap at the end of the week or a big quarterly retreats, but you know, it, sometimes it can bum you out where you're just like, should I even try anything tomorrow?

49:22But you kind of have to, but it's also just, it's hard to stand out, especially like I've been doing this for 15 years. And I think that, you know, I don't do these crazy DIYs, although that we can talk about that in a second that we we we might we do have a very old house on the property we're about to diy but i don't i'm not one of the content creators that does these incredible like transformative like i don't build my own kitchen cabinets you know and so um there's just there's a lot out there to watch and to like and keep working keep doing your job for me i'm just like i we do a photo shoot every week multiple shoots a week i love that part of my job so much.

49:58I love writing about the content. I love revealing these rooms. The game of social media at times can be really fun to play truly. Like when I'm in a really good place, I think I said this last time, like it really depends on like where my mentality is, but when I'm in a really good place, I'm like, this is really fun. What a, what a young industry I get to still be part of and like how fun this is. And then other times I just get frustrated and I'm just like, I don't know, should I still be here? Like, you know, and I'm like, but, But most of the time I live in the first place. Thank God. Well, I mean, so last time we spoke, you talked a lot about, oh, Dennis, you know, I need to step back or I need less people and I want to focus on myself and all.

50:42And I I see you now and I'm like, really? Really? Did we? Was that a lot of stepping back? I'm not I'm not sure I'm seeing that. That's really funny. I do remember that. I was in a very weird headspace when we moved up here. We were living in - I'm just going to scale back and really not do much. You might not even see me on social media. I'm like, really? I did scale back on social media. It turns out that wasn't the best thing for the brand. There you go. Hurt the business. Sure did. Whoops. It's okay. We recovered. But you really do have to stay on all the time in order to maintain that algorithm situation.

51:20But I am still a smaller team than I used to be. And I really love a small team. And I still don't want to grow. I think I may want to grow personally a lot every day, but I don't want to. I don't want to become like a Joanna Gaines. I don't think that I would thrive. And not that I even could, by the way, this is not me saying that I could. I'm just not trying. Exactly. No, no, no. It's more like I when I when I had twice as many employees, it wasn't the best for the company or for me or for the health, the business or anything. So I still do like having a very small team that can and we hire a ton of freelancers.

51:57We still need more help, but it's just in a healthier way for the business. Yeah. Healthier. I mean, and that was a big part of the conversation. I think you were feeling I mean, again, this was a while back, but it sounded like you were feeling a little a little unhealthy about all of it. It was all just too much and understandably. And so you did need to scale back. So what is the business today? And what are you what are you going after? What are you trying to drive? Because it's it's not working with with clients, design clients, per se. Right. But so it's it. And the business used to be all about all of these different sort of deals and people that wanted to work with you and people that wanted your help in growing their brands or helping them with awareness.

52:41Is that still what is the business, what drives the business today? The last few years, in fact, probably the last 10 years, we've documented these larger renovations, right? And they're typically my house so that I can really be extremely transparent about what we're doing and about the process. So the business has shifted a bit to work with renovation partners that are wanting to be in houses that they know will be photographed really well. And they're going to get a lot of PR assets and deliverables out of them. so that's what we are documenting constantly and then revealing so I have my renovation years those ones are a little bit harder honestly because they're just they're very depleting in a lot of ways and there's tons of decisions to make and you're you're doing it very publicly so that's can create a decent amount of stress you know um and but it's they're fun but and then you have to like document every single part of it because you don't know until later what the articles you're going to write about them, right?

53:45So you can't, you got to make sure that you're always shooting almost every day, getting every angle video, horizontal and vertical, just in case two years from now, we're going to want to do whatever new social media wants us to, you know, to create some like reels didn't exist when we started the renovation of this house, right? So we didn't have the kind of footage that we needed to create some of these huge more like before process after reels like when we're doing a project now we are just collecting footage for years on the project and some of it we put out you know as we're publishing it but a lot of it we are just keeping it on these servers for when we actually reveal so we can go back and and really talk about the process once you see the after so there's renovation years and then there's reveal years and i love a reveal year dennis like because it's just the beautiful photo shoots and the styling and the decorating and it's it's just a lot less stress and it's just the pretty stuff and honestly it's the stuff that people care about the most anyway so then the traffic on those years is like much higher than the renovation years so but you have to have the renovation years too because that's where a lot of the partners are from anyway so it's it's such a everything is such a balance and each part of it is very enjoyable in a lot of ways and each part of is obviously stressful in a lot of ways.

55:07So it's a balance. People love to weigh in. And here you are working on your personal space, right? And people have lots of opinions. I remember Julia Markham from Chris Love. Julia saying on stage when I had her in a discussion, she said, yeah, and people were all upset that we were moving. And I said, well, and they felt like they could weigh in. And she said, yeah, and we really thought like, oh, maybe we shouldn't move because the readers are all upset about it. And I thought, wow, that's a lot to have to factor in, right, to your life. And apparently, and she talks about this very openly, people don't love the kitchen or people don't love, I don't know, things that she's renovated.

55:48And that's got to be hard when people, right? And as you say, social media is a lot less nice and kind than when you first came up as a blogger, right? Sure is. I mean, I protect myself a lot, Dennis. So my team reads the DMs that somebody from my team reads the DMs that are general, that are not like I don't have a personal relationship with. They'll debrief me if there's like something that's very consistent, like a criticism that's very consistent. But it's different than me reading the criticism in the language that the commenter is leaving it in, which is sometimes mean spirited. I can handle criticism.

56:27I mean, I've been here for 15 years. That's fine. It's the mean spiritedness that is, is harder to digest because it's almost like, wait, there's people that live out there and exist just to kind of ruin your day. That's almost more of the pain than it is like personal. It's just, wow, we live in a world where someone thinks that's okay to do anyway. So I really, I protect myself from the comments from the blog. We really, I mean, people are so nice there, but, and there's a few that can get through so we have an ai uh comment filter now that can detect uh negative sentiment interesting i know so and it's my team created this uh my it guy but not so that i don't have to read them but if they're negative then a human still has to publish them like it just it doesn't it doesn't mean they don't get published it means that a human being caitlin on my team she'll go through and then read them.

57:23Because sometimes they'll block somebody for using a silly curse word, but they were actually saying something very positive. So now the AI detects whether or not they're negative. And I can go in and comment back to people. I feel so much freedom knowing that I'm probably not going to come across something that's going to ruin my day. So we have protections in place. Yeah, and as you should. There's so many times I'm like, that is fair. That is fair. And I'm kind of nauseous because there's a lot of truth there. Right. And then that does help me grow. And that does help me kind of shift some of my decision making in a way that was probably better for everybody, including myself.

58:03But it's just the way that it's written. So I think that having having my team kind of just filter a little bit, be like, hey, your outdoor kitchen maybe wasn't very relatable. And like, yep, I get that. So we need to make sure that we are speaking to multiple audiences and not just, you know, the outdoor kitchen audience. And so there are definitely criticisms that kind of sting, but I fully, fully understand and agree with them. And we take it as feedback and, you know, change our content. And, you know, it's funny you mentioned about AI and I just see so much more AI video content showing up.

58:44And I'm thinking, wow, this is really coming in such a huge way. And I hear some AI film is going off to a big film festival. And I just think that is out of the barn. I know. And I've, I've obviously thought about how we could be using it every day. And I don't know, Dennis, I don't know, like, how it could truly make my day to day as a designer, blogger, business owner, I really don't, I don't know how it could help. I would be very interested in hiring someone that would come in and be like, okay, from based on what you're already doing, here's ways that could be more efficient, or, you know, design programs that could, that could help.

59:26And I know that there are some for designers, but I just I we still haven't figured out how how we can use it, except we've done some blog posts that have been where we take a photo and then change elements in the room with AI. But I will say it takes a very long time for them and they do it wrong. They're listening to me, of course. So they're going to they're going to punish me. They're listening to all of us so many times. Yeah. I'm like, oh, was Photoshop better than this? like this took so like I'm talking hours not like and it's but like every time you prompt it's like no sorry not that blue make it look more like this blue and then they'll do the wrong glue or they'll do a chair backwards you're like and every time it takes about 10 minutes for it to to you know to redo it so we haven't found it beneficial yet I'm sure it's going to be or I'm sure I just don't know the programs that I could be using right now um but uh so we are really not utilizing it very much right now at all, which I'm probably going to regret saying that and being this way.

1:00:30I'm not opposed to it at all. It's just that I don't, I don't know. For designing product, we either want to hire a product designer to be kind of part of our team, or we're going to have to start using these tools because none of us on my team are product designers so the the sofas went well with a ton of drawing a ton of back and forth a ton of like oh no i mean literally me sitting on sofas are at our house and being like this is like one inch too deep you know like so that's kind of how we designed all the proportions is like real life sitting on on a piece of furniture but i know that going forward doing that in addition to having some uh ai tools or a human being tool that knows how to do product design like real renderings would be really helpful i am not anti-tech i'm sure i'm intimidated by it but i'm not anti i'm just not quite sure you know how to use it in the way that that would really um help help our business yeah no no which makes sense and and i think listen from a from a furniture design perspective, definitely some tools out there that can help you and make all of that easier.

1:01:44And I don't want it to feel as scary as it does. But yeah. But do you remember a few years ago when the home world was talking about all these, was it virtual reality stores? Do you remember? Sure. And AR and VR, we thought that was going to be everything. Augmented reality and virtual reality. And we were all going to be living in the metaverse. And but I remember like home brands were like really jumping on this and announced like making big announcements. And I remember thinking like, I don't think people really want to exist in this world in the home space. And I think that's the same with AI in your home.

1:02:19It's why the home, I think, is also a place where smart technology doesn't take off nearly as well as everywhere else is because people want their homes to be really unintimidating and easy to exist in. And I think even when you're consuming, when you're looking for home content, like decorating ideas, I think I really hope that the home space might be one that people really want a like a human being or like the sense that a family is involved. Do you know what I mean? Versus other industries, obviously tech, medical, bio, you know, like there's all these industries that it makes sense for. but as far as like I don't know I feel like people there's a warmth with your home there's like it's where we live it's where we you know we raise our kids I just I don't know I just feel like it might be a little bit more protected or at least I'm hoping that like our blog and the way we create content that it might still have an audience even in five ten years from now when the rest of you know everything is just so AI I think you're going to be able to detect when things aren't, I hope.

1:03:29In conclusion, all of this technology is great, just not the creepy part that seems to be a little scary and with an edge. And it's a little bit of an odd time that we're living in at the moment. But Emily, I'm delighted to get to check in with you and speak with you. And I thank you so much for making the time. Dennis, thank you. I always like talking to you. And I always am nervous about what I'm going to say. But here we are. And it's a real conversation. And it's a wild world out there. I guess isn't that consistently what we talk about? It's so fun. It's so challenging. It's so frustrating.

1:04:13I'm so lucky to still be here. 15 years is not nothing in digital and social media, as you know. So I'm just, I'm happy to still be here and have readers who are still like really excited to come to the blog and come to our social. So, and to be talking to you. Yeah, I'm just grateful.

1:04:35And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Wayfair caught my eye this week, Dennis. A few weeks ago, we talked about how a lot of Wayfair vendors were stealing images from British design brands. Those dastardly Wayfair vendors. I just checked the other day and actually Wayfair has pulled almost all of the offending images that I pointed out to them. So, I mean, I will say kudos to them for taking action on it. I mean, they did have to be bugged by a reporter about it, but they clearly have a process to pull stuff down.

1:05:07And I'm sure that, you know, the people over there are trying. You know, ironically enough, I did see another image that I think was stolen while I was there. so you really see how this is a this is whack-a-mole you know you take one thing down another thing goes up and you know maybe i shouldn't let wayfar up the hook maybe they need to come up with a technology solution but they do you know they are at least responding to complaints about this so you know good on them the other thing is and i feel bad even i said rh 5 000 times in this podcast but there was a little news story with how our house the other competing brand had dropped a lawsuit that they'd put up against rh for this whole complicated story about an executive have gone back and forth and RH had stolen trade secrets.

1:05:45And I think I was very excited for the discovery phase of this lawsuit because I was hoping all these emails would come out. But our house has dropped the lawsuit. I think a very similar thing happened last year when they sued RH over this other alleged thing. So, you know, that is no more. I don't know if you were surprised by that. I think a lot of people told me this was going nowhere, but I was holding out hope for a nice, juicy lawsuit. Fred wanted a lot of disclosure. He wanted a lot of documents and a lot of revelations. But I think it's interesting that it's died down. Clearly, listen, Fred, he's much too concerned about tariffs and inflation to worry about some petty lawsuits.

1:06:20So we'll see what happens there. But interesting that that's all come to a head. What caught your eye this week? One of the things that caught my eye was all the way from Paris, Féau Boisery, who has been on the show. Guillaume from Féau Boisery has been on the show and just opened his showroom in the D &D building. Fred, you see that? There are people opening showrooms in the D &D building. There are. And they're excited about them. And it's a showstopper, no surprise. So it is definitely worth checking out. They pulled out a lot of stops to open that space. And it's one that I think a lot of people will be talking about and checking out.

1:06:58So I hope that they will. And I wish them great success in their new space. The other thing that I wanted to shout out is the fact that next This week, I will somehow, Fred, be recording this show with you from Atlanta, which is where... Not coming with you this time. Sadly, we won't be together next week, but I'll be in Atlanta, and I hope that people will come visit me because I'm going to be at Discover ADAC on Wednesday, September 24th, 1 p.m. I'm going to be giving a presentation with Bobby McAlpin and Tara Shaw, and I hope that you'll come and check that out on behalf of my friends at Century.

1:07:31so I'm looking forward to that and looking forward to spending a lot of time with the good folks in Atlanta. I don't get to spend enough time at ADAC so I'm thrilled to be there and I hope to see lots of people there. All right, that's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaos and Caroline Burke, edited by Michael Cacianeda. I'm Dennis Scully.

1:08:05Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.