The Thursday Show: Has the design industry gotten too big? Plus: Event planner and designer Rebecca Gardner on crafting the perfect party

25:18seeing that Christopher Peacock's kitchen and all the materials that he uses in the house is so dramatic. And I think that that's very impactful. And that's just sort of one of many examples. Yeah. And I think that's an example of something that's changed, right? Because I think in the early days, I think it was much more sort of like local trade brands making kind of like handshake deals with designers and loaning them pieces. That still very much happens. And that's a lot of what goes into Kips Bay is deals like that. But there are these kind of like bigger sponsorship and bigger partnerships that kind of go hand in hand with it being like a national brand.

25:53And, you know, I'm sure there are some designers who would rather use their own guy for whatever it is, whether it's tile or upholstery or whatever. But I think, as you said, there's a sort of a mutual benefit to everybody being involved. And of course, because it's for charity, the charity ultimately benefits. So it's kind of cool to see how it's become kind of like a fly wheel that, you know, benefits the designers, benefits the brands and benefits the charity sort of in a happy kind of way. The one sort of cog in the Kips Bay machine, I think this is probably true of all show houses, is I think getting a venue has become increasingly complicated for them because it used to be, it was like, I think just, you know, it was a connection through New York high society.

26:31Somebody had a townhouse they didn't mind lending out. Real estate transactions were sort of slower. They were less commercialized. Whereas now it's like you've got Compass and everything is very data-driven. And I think people are more impatient. They want to make deals more quickly. Certainly, New York real estate is very hot, as it maybe always has been, but even more so now. And so it's genuinely hard for them to find a house. You know, the Kips Bay, you know, this year, which is the 50th edition, was postponed at the last minute from spring to fall. I suspect they'll have a hard time next year.

26:59And I'm kind of wondering, like, what does that mean for the show house institution in general and Kips Bay in particular? What do you think? Well, it is very challenging. And I remember the Holiday House show house had this Russian oligarchs townhouse that they just always had permission to reuse. And so every year you just knew you had this Russian oligarchs house to yourself. And then I don't know what happened. Eventually that was no longer available. Now what reason could there be for a Russian oligarch? What could that be? What happened that caused that? Yeah. So, I mean, we don't need to go there.

27:33But it was very comforting for them to be able to plan and to know. And I think that there's a lot to be said. You can see why the wow house that happens in London gets built in the Chelsea Harbor Design Center and then gets broken down and they can control the space. And I think that there's a lot to be said for just knowing you've got a venue. But in a lot of ways, I mean, I think this very different space than they had originally imagined created, I think, a lot more of a different kind of flow than other houses have had in the past. I was surprised how many designers reached out to me and said that the house just felt so much more consistent, like you didn't get the sense of these wildly disconnected rooms, and it felt much more of a whole.

28:23And I think, in a way, that was forced because of this very different space that they ended up using. So, I mean, it did create a very different experience than perhaps it otherwise might have. Yeah, I think that's such a good point, because on the one hand, you want to be able to plan far ahead and have the reliability. And certainly no one who works for Kips Bay is thinking like, boy, I wish we could have more last minute challenges and crazy panics. But as you know, because I'm the producer of this show, I'm a fan of last minute panic and crazy, crazy challenges. I like to have those happen on the podcast.

28:57And sometimes you get the most creative moments out of adversity and last minute changes and someone drops a mirror or whatever. I do think that like no one wants for those kinds of things to happen, but they do play a part in what, what, you know, makes the show kind of magical. And I think the designers are used to rolling with the punches and, you know, as long as they can find a house, I'm sure the talent will make it the best house it can be. So, you know, just knock on wood that they'll be able to, you know, I don't know, meet a Russian oligarchic between now and next year, because it's an institution and one I certainly am fond of.

29:29So long may it continue. Absolutely. And they have enough headaches to deal with. It would be great if they knew that they could count on a house. So I hope that happens for them. In the meantime, Fred, we're going to move on and talk about new smart home tech. This week, the Wall Street Journal took a look at what's next in smart home technology. Mostly it's AI. Surprise, surprise. Google and Amazon are both unveiling new AI powered smart speakers that promise to do everything from dimming the lights to finding your lost dog. Dennis, what are you going to use your new AI powered smart speaker to do?

30:02Well, I found the whole find your dog, this new search party technology from Ring that they're talking about was, I don't know, Fred, I don't know if it was a little spooky because they also talked about, hey, you know who else goes missing is some relative that might have dementia who's wandered off. And apparently the technology is going to activate cameras throughout the neighborhood to help you find either your dog or your relative who might have wandered off. So I don't know. That sounded - Nothing dystopian about that whatsoever. No, that doesn't sound alarming at all. I kept thinking of Tom Cruise in Minority Report where he used his old eyeballs to fool the cameras and get through security.

30:46But hopefully it won't come to that. I don't know. I don't talk to a lot of people that say, hey, you know what? I wish I had more AI in my house, like listening to everything I'm saying and watching everything I'm doing. So I don't know. Yeah. I mean, just to sort of, you know, kind of briefly make the case for these new devices. So, you know, I have a Google smart hub speaker. It's very old at this point, but it almost doesn't matter because largely what I use it for is setting a kitchen timer or finding out what the weather is and playing music. I think this point has been been made by others, but those are kind of the three uses that people mostly use their smart speakers for.

31:20And there's not a lot of, hey, Alexa, what's in my fridge and buy all the ingredients I need to make a casserole. Like that doesn't happen as much as, you know, in real life as it does in commercials. And I do think that layering on AI and all these other kinds of features will make those kinds of smart speakers actually more useful. And maybe you can ask it more sophisticated questions and maybe it, you know, can do more to, you know, make you, you know, more efficient at home or whatever it is the goal is. But, you know, as you said, there's always sort of this trade-off of, well, how much are you getting and how much are you giving up?

31:52And as you said, I do think that, you know, increasingly it feels like, you know, we want to escape from technology at home rather than have more of it. You know, I'm thinking about like, you know, Kips Bay. So as part of the research, I was looking back at, you know, all these rooms from the past and especially in the 80s and 90s during the sort of big smart home technology boom, there were so many Kips Bay rooms that were all about technology. And look at this, we put like a computer printer on the kitchen island. And look at this, we put like 17 screens in the bathroom. And I kind of feel like we've been disillusioned with that.

32:25And most recent Gipspace have had almost no smart home technology at all. And I think that that says something. I think it does. And I think what is the problem that we're trying to solve is I think so often the question. Truthfully, I wish there was some smart technology in my hotel room to say, hey, how do I work these lights? And hey, why is this bathroom so poorly lit? But, you know, I think it's in places that you're not familiar with where you actually need the smart technology to help guide you. But there is a lot of opportunity for really useful smart technology. You know, I was going to talk about this on a previous show, but when I was in Atlanta, I had this interesting conversation with a designer, Tish Mills, who had come into New York to visit Lutron to go and see their Ketra technology that they were introducing.

33:15And this technology, you program in your latitude and longitude of your location, and it adjusts the lighting throughout the day based on where the sun is and adjusts your shades if you want to. That all sounded like, wow, that's really useful smart technology. I could see that being engaging. but some of the other things I don't know if it's all the speakers that listen to everything that's going on in your house, right? That's the part that just makes me a little nervous but I do like the idea of being able to find your dog I always want you to be able to find your dog Yeah, that's how they get you, right?

33:53You don't want to lose your dog, right? It's almost like a threat Be ashamed if you lost your dog Plug in this camera into your head Don't you care about Fido? Get this new ring camera right? Come on. I know. I mean, I think also like, you know, from the perspective of designers, like designers have always had a tortured relationship with smart home technology. I think like in the eighties and nineties, as I mentioned, it was really booming and there was all these new developments. And then I think so many designers were burned by, you know, recommending that their clients install it only to have to rip it out three months later when the next thing came along or have to deal with all these complicated remotes that were hard to use.

34:25It's also difficult for designers to monetize because it's largely, you know, installed by It's sort of a totally different, you know, creative professional. So there's always been a very uneasy relationship there. And I think that like in recent years, I feel like it's rare to meet a designer who feels really excited about technology at home. Maybe there's some new innovation that will change that. But I feel like, you know, the industry has already voiced its displeasure at this kind of thing. And I suspect that these smart home speakers will do nothing to do nothing to change that lost dog or no.

34:55No, but I'm glad that you've got a good timer and weather report system there that you can use. Yeah, that's important. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including advice from Sean Lowe on bad client referrals and our designer's guide to high point market. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

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36:27And we're back. I'm joined now by Rebecca Gardner, the founder of Houses and Parties, and also the author of a new book called A Screaming Blast, Exceptional Entertaining. Rebecca, thank you so much for joining me. I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me, Dennis. Delighted to have you on the show. It's been in the works for some time, Rebecca. I've gotten a lot of outreach from people saying, you've got to talk to Rebecca, have her on the show. All right, Nick Olson. All right, I've got her. Yeah, thank you, Nick Olson, my dear friend that I have known for so long. Is that right? I have, I have.

37:02When I worked at SCAD, one of my jobs was to bring movers and shakers to Savannah to meet with students, to create relationships and to mentor and to inspire. And Nick Olson was always so generous. This was the real domino, Rita Koenig, Nick Olson heyday. And that was sort of the beginning of parties. I get to entertain all of these design stars. Well, so I was wondering about knowing a little bit about the evolution and some of your early experiences, how it all came to be. SCAD plays a pivotal role, But tell me a little bit about how you got started and a little bit about yourself for people who might not be familiar.

37:47I'm from South Texas and people really party in Corpus Christi, Texas. There is a necessity to make your own fun. And I grew up surrounded by a gaggle of hairsprayed women that knew how to do it. And this all comes natural to me. It's entertaining and sharing and gathering is a part of me from the very beginning. Well, and so what came first? There's a design business, there's an entertainment and party planning business, and there's a product side to the whole thing. So tell us, you were just telling me earlier, it's all a three ring circus. Tell me about that circus. Houses and parties is definitely a three-ring circus.

38:30I launched my own business in 2011, doing interior design and event design. And actually, it was the very glamorous Lauren Santo Domingo, who was launching Moda Operandi at the same time. And we did a lot of parties for her. And she said, I think you really need to focus on the parties because there's so many amazing decorators with all different kinds of styles in New York City in particular, and you found your niche. So I did parties starting in 2011 with interior design still, but I've really focused on the parties. And when COVID happened, there were no parties. And within probably 48 hours, I had lost 24 months worth of business.

39:17And I have an amazing team that has worked with me, some of them from the very beginning. And we were all going to work at J.Crew or we were going to start housesandparties.com. So we started an e-commerce site and I was like a Southern bride, you know, with no fiance, but I had a file folder full of tear sheets. So I knew exactly what I wanted to sell. I had thought about doing this for a long time. I just honestly didn't have the guts until I had no choice, you know? And so we launched the e-commerce site, October 1st, 2020. So tell us then the elements that actually make a fun party. What do we need to know about what's going to ensure a good time is had by all?

40:01Sure. Well, truth be told, I can sell you expensive linens and Murano vases until I'm blue in the face. But if your people are lame, your party will be lame. And so I think that that the most important thing is the reason to celebrate and who you invite and having a very generous list with different kinds of people. Because at the essence of my brand is people and sharing and gathering and celebrating so that when we look back, our memories are not beige. To me, beige is the problem and I bring the color. Oh, look at you going right to beige there. Wow. Okay. We're going to have a lot to discuss there.

40:46Right. Right. So I think good people, different people, offering your typical group a new friend is an incredible gift. Somebody that thinks differently or is from somewhere else or a different age or whatever. And then other than that, dim the lights, pour strong drinks. In going through your book, it seems like strong drinks key key element key crucial there's a there's a wonderful quote about your book from the fabulous candace bergen uh whom i'm a huge fan of me too and uh and and she gives this great quote that sort of goes on about how fun you are and what a great party and and she says and i'm paraphrasing she says that you threw a 70th birthday party for her that she is still hungover from and she's actually 79 years old now.

41:38So it's lasted a long time. The greatest compliment from the most fabulous woman. That's pretty great. I sort of feel like you can just stop now, right? I think you've won. Congratulations. That and the forward is written by Sofia Coppola. So I mean, again, you're living large. You're living large and you're obviously throwing some fun parties for some great people. So the guest list is crucial. It sounds like the drinks need to be flowing. Bring those lights down. I know you're not a fan of fake candles or things, right? Oh, no, those are horrible. What are some of the other things that people are just sort of doing wrong with parties or holding themselves back from?

42:22You have to have a host. And when you're hosting a party, even if you're a luxury brand, you have to make thoughtful introductions to make sure that everyone is comfortable. So you can preach to invite different kinds of people and to mix up the crowd. But if you're not a gracious host by making people feel comfortable, I think that that's sort of a loss. And I also think that in bigger cities like New York, where people have small spaces that there's a fear or people are intimidated to entertain in their home. And I I would encourage everyone, especially in this book that has so many fancy big parties, but I also showcased cocktail parties in my teeny tiny apartment.

43:03I would encourage people to embrace their living spaces and have fun and not worry about imperfection because having someone in your home is a very intimate gesture and there's no better way to make a friend. Do you think that there's also an interior design element that people need to take into account when they're thinking about bringing people in and making them just feel comfortable? Yes. I think that furniture should be comfortable. I like things that are warm. I like warm people. I like warm colors. I like warm environments. I mean, hell, I live in Savannah. And so personally, I like interiors that feel soft, that have curtains, that have beautiful carpets that have rolled arms to where you can perch on the corner of a chair while someone else is sitting in it.

43:57I think that as a host in your own home, you sort of kick off your shoes and you pass around compliments and cocktails with equal abandon. And if you have an environment that feels warm and cozy and welcoming, certainly no matter how fancy or dressy, to me, a rolled arm sofa or a low slung chair is much more inviting than like a Mies van der Foe, you know? Not a fan, then I take it? I just don't like harsh lighting, harsh interiors, harsh angles, sharp cocktail tables with glass tops that knock your knees. Right, right. All of those are a concern. So take me back to the business side of all of this and getting this business off the ground.

44:55So you joked it was either we were going to go and work for J.Crew or we were going to launch this business. Tell me what it took to get it off the ground and how it's evolved. I worked very, very hard to secure vendors during COVID, which was very difficult because remember all the incredible backlog of orders and the delays and shipping. And so I stalked the people at Puy Fricot in Herond and Hermes Home in Janori like I did you. I was determined. I wrote letters. I sent gifts. And there is also a hesitancy for some of these larger brands to work with a company that's just online. They want brick and mortar stores.

45:42Sure. And so I went on a Miss Congeniality for Houses and Parties campaign, like you can't imagine, or maybe you can. I might have a taste. And we won. We won. So we launched with all these beautiful brands that we were so proud to represent. But most important to Houses and Parties are the things that we make and the things that we commission from artists. And that is something that I learned to do from my days at SCAD. And I really believe in things that have a touch of the hand. And that feels very warm to me. I think it brings a creativity and an unexpected twist that you don't get elsewhere.

46:25We sell seasonal collections. So you could buy a party soup to nuts. I love this entrepreneurial story, right? So, I mean, and this is really that. And you've got a multifaceted business. There's some design work. There's the parties and this online business. And it's certainly not an easy time to be running an e-com business. And you and I were talking just briefly before we came on the air about tariffs and some of the challenges there. and I certainly know full well that Heron is coming from overseas, as are probably many of the brands you mentioned, Genori and some others, all coming from abroad.

47:09I'm assuming some price increases have been thrown your way and some other challenges. Tell me a little bit about that. Well, we had a tenacious goal to manufacture most of what we sell for fall, winter 2025, which was hideous timing. as you can imagine. And we have been learning how to manufacture and how to do that over the years as we added different vendors. I am lucky that a lot of the people that we work with are in the United States. And that was a goal from the beginning before this sort of, you know, being put in a Vitamix, having my business put in a Vitamix, you know. But we continue to try to manufacture in the United States.

47:51There are fabulous artists here, like even Bob Christian, who is the illustrator that does a lot of our menu cards. I work with a silversmith, Alison Layton, that's in New York. Tracy Glover is in Rhode Island that does all of our blown glass. But if anyone has an idea of someone that can marble paper like the Italians in mass, you know, in a two week deadline, please let me know. Please let us know. Well, so tell me what's what's driving the party planning business these days, what people are looking for. And I want to really understand all of the elements that go into putting this together, how much time you need.

48:32And it sounds like, as you've described, it's not dissimilar to an interior design project and the sort of thought and planning and scaling that goes into that. Yeah, we're creating little worlds, just like you do with an interior design project. and the timing is totally different all the time. It could be three months, it could be a year. And it is just like decorating a room. We think about what's underfoot and what's overhead and the lighting and the different functions of different spaces. I'm a firm believer in parties moving from room to room or from space to space. If you remember like weddings in college and having cocktails around tables and then dinner around an empty dance floor.

49:20That's kind of my worst nightmare. And we think of parties as an environmental installation. And I know that you've made reference to not wanting to really get into too much detail about budgets with people. But I mean, you sort of suggested that there are Toyota Camrys and there are Rolls Royces. Right. And yes. We don't sell Camrys. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And so I got the sense that, but obviously there are budgets and from the looks of this book and some of these parties, quite elaborate ones. Do people have a sense of what it really is going to cost when they come to you? Or is that a big educational process that you take them through?

50:06Well, I'm glad you asked that because, Dennis, you've talked to so many people about social media or not social media or how do you bill. I mean, I obviously have listened to every single podcast that you've done. And it is a really hard process, even with an interior. But with a wedding or a huge event, unless you're working with a luxury brand or a business, a lot of times you have first-time buyers. and my approach, maybe it's because I'm a straight shooting Texan, is to rip that band-aid off and to be really straightforward and really honest about what it's going to cost. And we have a very transparent way of billing with a flat markup.

50:47So everyone knows how the sausage is made. I wish there were a better way to describe that, but you get it. And that really, really appeals to people who are serious and normally people who maybe have done an interiors project or have worked with a designer before. And then other people are absolutely blown away and we don't hear from them again. Probably four to five clients come back to me and say, we're so sad that you didn't do our party, be it a 50th anniversary or a wedding, but we'd really like for you to do our interior. And I think that is because they just simply do not know what it's going to cost.

51:29But we do have ideas and we do have a lot of experience with all different kinds of parties. And what we do is pull past budgets for similar scope of work. And we tell them exactly what we think it'll cost. Tell me about team size, the scale of this operation. Help me understand. Yeah, I have about 12. Right now I have 12 full-time employees and a few work remotely, but most of us are in Savannah, Georgia. The majority of our clients in our work are in New York City, so we travel back and forth and we have an office there. And I'm proud to say that most of the people that work for me have been with me for a long time.

52:09And that is another secret of success. Tell me about the book before we go. why you wanted to do the book now, what your hope is for the book, and is a hotel project going to finally come out of this? That's the question, Rebecca. I hope so. I hope so. The book is something that I have wanted to do for a long time. And we saved images of parties from social media from that monster that we feed for several years so that there was images that are new and fresh. And what I like about the book is the price point. And I like the idea that it will attract a new customer to housesandparties.com. Okay.

53:02Because we do have a very wide price point. And I think adding a$45 price point is a smart business decision for a different audience. And I hope that I will have a new group of people that maybe are excited to learn about entertaining and that will be inspired. And maybe help people to loosen up a little bit. I feel like sometimes we're taking things a little too seriously and you're all about fun and creativity and just helping people. I hope so. I appreciate you saying that. I do think that there's so many places to find beautiful tabletop. I mean, that is everywhere. And we certainly are a destination for that.

53:47But I do think that as a host, it's your responsibility to set an atmosphere and whether that requires a structured icebreaker or a crazy party hat, or whether it's a work party, you still want people to have fun. Well, that is such a good message to leave it on, Rebecca. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to get to spend time. Congratulations on the book. Thank you again. It's a pleasure. Thank you, Dennis. I appreciate it.

54:20And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, I know what caught your eye, but go ahead. Yes, of course. The viral RH videos caught my eye. So several dozen people sent this to you and me over the course of the past week. It's a content creator named Sammy Tanner Cohen, who does these kind of breakdowns on businesses. And she did a series of quick videos around RH kind of breaking down like, wow, this company is insane. Look at these private jets. And they've got, you know,$2.5 billion in debt.

54:53And isn't this crazy? And, you know, it was just funny to see it because, you know, so many people like sent it to me being like, did you know this? And I was like, yes. Have you read anything I've written over the past five years? You know, we do nothing here on the Thursday show except talk about how interesting and crazy RH is. But what was your reaction to these videos? Well, exactly, Fred. I mean, you and I have both written about this extensively, talked about it extensively on the show. and it was none of this came as any surprise to us that yes they have borrowed several billion dollars and bought back shares and all the other things and the jets and the yacht and all of that and and so it was it was interesting to see somebody from outside of our industry discover all of this for the first time discover the madness yeah and be and be blown away going what how is this how is this possible but uh but that is why people always say why are you always talking about RH just because this very thing.

55:49Look, look at how fascinating this is. Why wouldn't we be talking about this for heaven's sakes? And we're not here to take sides or recall winners and losers. She wanted to point out that, oh, this report says they're very close to bankruptcy. Well, you know, it was right next to that one was Wayfair was the next one over. So, right, if you think maybe they're both going into bankruptcy simultaneously, listen, that would be a pretty major story. But anyway, it was just interesting to see someone who's not used to covering that story be as surprised as she clearly was by everything. And apparently there's more reporting from her to come on it.

56:22So we will stay tuned. Right. No, it was difficult. It was difficult to react to it outside the context of my own ego being like, I knew this. But it was it was certainly fun. And R.H. As you said, it's an interesting company and she certainly made a series of interesting videos. Anyway, what caught your eye this week, Dennis? What caught my eye was the announcement about a friend of the show, a former guest, Asad Serket, who was the editor-in-chief of El Decor, and we had heard that he was over in Italy and had been hoping to find a steady gig there, and now he has joined the AD Italia team as its head of editorial content.

56:59So congratulations to Assad. That's great for him. He managed to figure out how to move to Italy and get a job and make it work, and I'll try to take the envy out of my voice, but it's hard, frankly. Maybe he needs a podcast. Does AD Italia need a breakdown of Italian design businesses? Because we're there. Well, I'm happy for him. Congratulations, Asad. And I look forward to the Italian coverage. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com.

57:32If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.