The Thursday Show: Houzz says AI can save designers $74K. Can it? Plus: Inside Perigold's first-ever store

25:32There's a there's a real difference there. And, you know, I think Sarah makes the point really well on this piece and on tap. We'll link it in the show notes. But, you know, I feel like in modern modern life, so much of our life is spent worrying about all the clutter that's accumulated. You know what I mean? It's their home organizing is a huge sector of the industry. It's an entire business that's been built up around organizing all your stuff. And I feel like a shiny cabinet is a place that reframes stuff as this is magical, this is beautiful, this is me. I think there's something really, really nice about that.

26:04So I don't know. I guess kudos to Sarah for the piece. And this is going to... I don't have one. We keep our stuff on the mantle, but it's always falling off on the mantle. So I'm going to hop on Facebook Marketplace right now and buy somebody's shiny cabinet. I think it's a great idea. Well, and I'm told that you'll be there with a lot of fellow millennials, Fred. Yes, my people. That they are hunting for the China cabinet and all that it represents. So I want more people to have a cabinet of curiosities. And I want more people to have collections that make them individuals and unique. Because that's what separates us from all the ivory boucle.

26:43All right. That's it for the news. but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including can't-miss design events in August and the best outdoor debuts from Atlanta Market. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

27:00We're taking a quick break to tell you a little bit more about June Lalloy. As a sister brand to Lalloy, June Lalloy maintains the same design acumen, high standards of quality and value, offering furniture, rugs, lighting, and decor for today's home. The June Lalloy trade program is designed to make doing business a breeze, offering exclusive benefits to designers that include special pricing, priority customer support, and a seamless sourcing experience. Visit juneleloy.com today to explore the collection and sign up for a trade account. That's J-O-O-N-L-O-L-O-I dot com. And now, back to the show.

27:49And we're back. I'm joined now by Rebecca Gins, who is the head of Perigold, a division of Wayfair. Very excited to finally have you on the show. Rebecca. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here. Let's talk a little bit about your background before we leap into Paragold and what all of that is about, because you've got an impressive resume before you come to Paragold. Tell us. Yeah, so I joined Paragold and WeFair in 2017. And prior to that, I had spent some time in management consulting at the Boston Consulting Group. And then when WeFair called, I was actually spending some time in New York at Fresh Direct, which is online grocery delivery.

28:32Comes to my home multiple times a week. Well, there you go. So you got the call from Wayfair and they said, come on over. Yeah. And it sounded a little bit too good to be true. Launching a luxury brand in a space that I had no experience in, but was very much passionate about. So home design and yeah. And now I've been here eight years, which is hard to believe. Well, so that's what they said to you. We're launching a luxury side of this business and we want you to come and head it up. Yeah. Yeah, in not so many words, but yes, I mean, that was the gist. And it was very nascent at that point. The website was essentially like a skeleton, and you still needed an engineer to change an image on the homepage.

29:13And it hadn't launched yet. So I joined, I think, in June 2017, and we launched in September of that year. So Wayfair launches Paragold, and I remember in the beginning they didn't really tell us too much about it. And I get it. They needed some time to build it out and see what it was going to become. What has it become? That's a big question. You know, we've enjoyed steady growth since launch in 2017. And so today, within Luxury Home, we are one of the bigger players and we offer a broad selection for the customer that's looking for high quality items for their home across styles and every space and now pretty much every category.

29:58Historically, a lot of the brands we worked with were to the trade only or sold in small assortments in regional retailers to a large extent. A lot of what has been going on in the furniture business in recent years, unfortunately, is a lot of heritage, family-run furniture chains around the country closing up shop for lots of different reasons, right? We had the big boom during COVID and then business dried up. Online has certainly been competition for many of them. Has that been a big driver of more business coming to you, have you found? Is there a connection, a correlation with that? You know, I can't say specifically sort of, but what I can tell you is, yes, that was a concern that we heard early on.

30:52But what we always shared with our supplier partners and what has proved out to be true is that we are trying to reach a customer that was shopping online anyway, or doing research online. And if they wanted that convenience, we wanted to make sure that these brands were available in that channel. we never were undercutting on price or winning in a way that was incongruent with what the physical stores could offer. And so this was more about just meeting customers where they wanted to shop and helping them find the best design brands in those channels. And what we heard from the suppliers that had those concerns initially was it actually didn't play out in those markets where You know, they didn't actually see that competition.

31:40Yeah. I mean, and lots of companies struggle with this issue of, listen, I've got I've got certain geographical arrangements with with partners and I don't want to appear to be in competition with them, which which is why many of these companies. I mean, I joke, but many of them have been slow to have their e-commerce strategy evolve because it's a highly charged issue with some of their longtime retail partners. And I get that. So that has certainly evolved in the last seven years. And I won't name any names of who the slowest was. Oh, really? You don't want to call that? They know who they are.

32:19they'll be listening to this show i'm guessing and uh and they will know who they are but so to that point so hilariously there's the famous story of of the founders of wayfair not even being allowed into high point in the beginning they had to create a fake company to say they had a store and all of that right and uh because they didn't want online companies coming into high point obviously high point has evolved a great deal and uh and uh and the rest of the team are more than welcome at High Point. And in fact, red carpets are rolled out where air they go, no doubt. But interesting to see that evolution and how it was perceived.

32:58And even in 2017, there were a great many people who weren't ready to do business with you. Yeah. I would say, I guess that's a rite of passage then. And I'm honored to have followed in similar footsteps, but we certainly had a similar experience early on. Well, so what was that like when you would call and say, hi, we're launching the upscale part of Wayfair? Can we sign you up? What were those conversations like? You know, there was a ton of hesitation, but we were, I would say, and I think people would probably say this, patient but persistent. And so we were talking about this a little before we started, but we always tell people, and this is true today as well, you know, we'll become friends before, and you know, eventually you'll work with us.

33:42We'll get there. And I understand it. You know, the timing has to be right. Part of what is challenging is it's, in many cases, giant pieces of furniture. And so all sorts of white glove delivery options needed to be made available, and it couldn't just be some curbside drop off and all of that. So talk to me a little bit about how that evolved for you. Yeah. And there I would say that's the benefit of being a luxury division of Wayfair. So for those that aren't familiar, we very much have our own brand ethos. We curate our assortment based on quality and a number of objective standards that we have in place.

34:28and we serve the luxury customer in a way that we think is commensurate with their needs and the price point. But we're able to leverage, you know, backend platforms and, you know, infrastructure that Wayfair has. It is a vast nationwide network of warehouses, distribution centers, our own delivery agents. And so we're able to provide the customer with high visibility into where their item is originating, where it is in the process, when they will get it, and provide now even more conveniences like scheduling your delivery in cart at the time of purchase. And so that is a real differentiator in home.

35:08And for luxury home and these brands, that was certainly different than how it had historically worked with third-party shippers and not clear visibility to where the item was in the supply chain. Another component in all of this, we talked about many of these brands being to the trade only brands for a long time. And so a trade program had to be created and all of that. Tell me a little bit about how that evolved for you. When we started the business, the problem that we were primarily trying to address was that the end consumer didn't have access to the best design brands. And for a lot of brands, they already had channels where they could sell to the trade.

35:54And so it wasn't the top problem that we were trying to address. We do know that we offer conveniences to members of the trade, particularly around shipping. We have partners that can help sourcing. It can be useful to be sourcing many brands from one place. So in order to support the trade and those that do want to shop with us, we have a trade program that offers primarily trade pricing and some of the services that I mentioned. But we have, until this point, been very much differential to our brand partners and allowed them to specify how they want the trade relationship to work on our platform.

36:34So interestingly, at some point, the desire to be not just online, but to also have a physical retail presence evolved as part of both your strategy and obviously your parent company's Wayfair strategy. They just opened up quite a sizable store just outside of Chicago. And now you have opened your very first retail location in Houston. So tell us about that. Yes, we have. So we opened our first store in Houston to the public in June. So but it's a very exciting milestone for us. And we have a second store planned to open in West Palm Beach this fall in September. And, you know, to your point, it was something that, you know, opening a physical retail store had been on the list and under consideration for a long time.

37:35You know, we recognize that, one, a lot of shopping that happens is omni-channel in nature. So customers look online and then go into a store or they go into a store and then they go online. And also, you know, the vast majority of transactions today are still in a physical store. And so the time was right at this point, particularly given the state of where the Paragold business is and our offering we're very confident in. And also that at this point, to your point, Wayfair has also opened a Wayfair store plus a bunch of specialty retail brand stores. And so there is some back end infrastructure that, again, we can leverage.

38:14And Houston being the first one, the first store, what was the thinking there? Was there just so much business coming out of that area for you that you thought, yes, we need to show up here? You know, it's a combination of things. There's some factors about the Houston market, which are it's a large market. It's growing. It has a strong customer base of ours, which suggests that our concept resonates there. We also think of it as a town that is a hub of innovation and style. But then also, there was just a very practical piece of this, which is we found a great location in Highland Village at the size that we needed.

38:49So we were looking for 20 ,000 to 30 ,000 square feet. And if you picture an average luxury shopping center, a lot of those stores are 5 ,000, 8 ,000, maybe 10 ,000 square feet. And so we got lucky and found two that were next to each other in vacancy. We combined two spaces to get to our total square footage. So that part had a list of markets that we thought were interesting, met the criteria around the kind of places we thought we would be successful. And then we were opportunistic when we found the right real estate. And same thing in West Palm Beach in Florida? Yeah, very similar scenario.

39:24Obviously, different market in terms of an element of seasonality, a little bit smaller. And so we'll learn some things there. But similarly, affluent population, growing market, and then great real estate that we found. Do you spend a lot of time thinking about your competitive set, who you're going head to head with? Who do you see yourself going head to head with and who are you looking at most closely? You know, we certainly look at others and admire things that others are doing. But in reality, there isn't a single competitor that's doing what we're doing. But who do you admire to that point?

40:04I mean, are there are there operations that you go? Yeah, they're they're doing it pretty well. I think some of the new Our House store concepts, I don't know if you've been in one of those. I think they're beautiful. So that would be an example. I think there's things that a lot of people do well. I've been in some local stores in different markets that have incredible service, which I really appreciate. I think it's a hard thing to do well consistently. So a lot of different things I admire at different retailers. One of the things that I was curious about with, so thinking about Houston, for example, So you have all of these brands.

40:38You have all of these different furniture brands. How did you go to them and say, OK, now listen, not all of you are going to get to be on the floor the first time out? Or tell me how those sort of conversations went, because I can imagine some of these brands being wildly excited to have some retail space in Houston. But obviously, not every brand can have the display they want, perhaps. But you tell me. You know, it was a dialogue and it's likely to evolve over time. But it's not, you know, it took effort on both sides, too. So it wasn't the right fit for every partner. And we more started with kind of looking at our data and trying to understand what the right mix of styles and categories from a merchandising perspective was that we wanted to reflect.

41:25And then we had conversations with retailers on their ability to partner with us on it. And so it was a bit of a, you know, dialogue back and forth to net at the final number, which is, you know, something like 150 brands, which is the starting point. And I'm sure we'll see kind of what resonates in each market more or less. And we'll also, you know, want to make sure that we keep the assortment fresh and interesting. That's one of our kind of the differentiators of our brand of our business is that you can discover just an endless number of amazing home brands. And so, you know, it's not to say that we're going to swap out everything in the store immediately, but we want to make sure that, you know, customers that come into the physical space continue to discover the brands that we're excited about also.

42:09So it will be evolving. Yeah, no, I'm sure that will be. Listen, we went through COVID and we've come out of COVID and we've been going through this housing market that's been very challenging in addition to the challenges of the housing market, which we'll discuss in a moment. We've had, obviously, since Liberation Day back in early April, we've been navigating a pretty complicated tariff-driven environment. And many, many of the companies that you work with are scrambling to try and figure out their own pricing and margin strategy. How has that been playing out for you and for your partners?

42:51I think the challenge has just been the degree to which the entire situation has been so uncertain and for an extended period of time. And it makes the planning really challenging. And then even, you know, for when people do know what's happening, the actual calculation of what the tariffs will hit on what portion of your product and how that impacts their costs and their price, it's actually not a simple thing to pull through. That's certainly been a challenge. And as a result, there's been instances where, you know, quantities ordered have changed, what's available has changed. And we completely understand that and, you know, are trying to work with our suppliers to manage it.

43:32From a physical retail perspective, that certainly creates more complexity, just because those are, if we've chosen an item for the floor, that has to be available, or we have to swap it out. From an e-com perspective, and just generally what the good news for us and for our customers is that we do have a broad assortment. And so even where that's so far impacted, you know, a certain item or a certain brand more so because of decisions they had to make, there typically are other options we can surface. But definitely a challenging set of circumstances to navigate. Though, you know, I don't know, maybe we'll look back at this and we'll say, see, this industry, it's never boring.

44:11You know, you've got, there's always something. How are you thinking about, I mentioned obviously the challenging housing market that we've had for some time. There's a feeling that rates might come down a bit in September. The market is sort of hoping. Obviously our president seems to want them to come down much sooner. But many have started to believe that even if rates do come down a little bit, that that perhaps isn't going to be meaningful enough to unlock housing. What are you hearing or thinking? How are you sort of thinking about how you navigate this climate? You know, I mean, we follow this just like anyone else.

44:54And obviously there's a ton of speculation and, you know, some speculation that I think a lot of us were wrong on earlier. And so I think for us, the reality is we follow it all tariffs. We're actively trying to work with our partners to mitigate that as much as possible. But the best thing we can do is just keep focused on making our offering as good as possible. You know, at the end of the day, we can't control interest rates. And so what we can control is having product, having excellent service, you know, being making right by our customers. So that's what we're focused on. If you get excited by the results of Houston and, as you say, West Palm Beach in the fall, can you imagine rolling out into a bunch of other locations in the coming years?

45:44Do you imagine this is momentum that's really going to lead to 10, 15 Paragold stores in the next few years? Our ambition is to serve key U.S. markets with a physical retail footprint. Exactly, you know, the timeline or quantity of that is still very much TBD. But yeah, we are excited to learn from Houston and West Palm and take it from there and pursue, you know, the next wave of opportunities as kind of the current set supports. One of the things that the high point companies that I spoke with were most excited about when your brand's name came up was the conference that you give where you share a lot of information about here's what's going on, here's what's selling, here's what's interesting.

46:41Tell me a little bit about that and when should I look for my invitation to the conference? Should I check in? Does that come by email or how does that? Yeah. Yeah. I'll get back to you on that part. Okay. No. We hold an executive summit for our Paragold partners. And the idea behind it is that, similar to what it sounds like you do, we go to trade shows, we talk to all of our partners in those, and we see hundreds of people across our team in a given market often. But our partners actually don't have that chance to connect with each other and to take a step back and sort of think about their business with us and strategy.

47:23And so we started doing this a number of years ago. Wayfair actually does something similar. And it's an opportunity for us to share where we're headed, our priorities, where we're looking for our partners to work with us in a way that can help accelerate their growth on our platform. And we find that we get good feedback on that. But truly, the best feedback is typically that, you know, our partners have the opportunity to connect with brands in other non-competitive spaces that they don't typically talk to. And there's actually been a few partnerships that have come out of this, which is which is fun to see.

47:59So that's the event. We can't hold it every fall for the most part. Well, and I'm wondering, I mean, even with the store, and obviously it's only been a few weeks since you've been open in Houston, but I wonder if you are seeing any interesting trends. I mean, I'm wondering if you're seeing some green shoots, you know, that suggest maybe there is some kind of a turn. Everyone's already thinking about October high point. Here I am going to Vegas over the weekend, trying not to sound too jealous, but I will be at the Vegas market this very weekend. talking to many of your partners and hearing how they're doing and how they're thinking about things.

48:39But I'm wondering what trends, if any, you're seeing that are noteworthy in your mind. Yeah. And it's funny because there's a ton of interest in understanding how the store is progressing. And it is, it's so early. It's been a number of weeks and it's like one of those things where one day it becomes a trend. I think one of the things that's interesting to me is we invested heavily in our opening in stocking some inventory to make it quicker ship. And so cash and carry, you can take home from the store. Made to order items have those lead times. Categories like a lighting or a tabletop that generally ship in one to two days, a customer would still get that way.

49:26But case goods or other furniture items, upholstery on the floor, we have largely stocked a few units in the Houston area. And we are seeing so far a lot of interest in that speed, which is exciting because it's something a lot of times these items did take longer to get. And so we'll see how that plays out. Again, It's so early, but that's one thing that's been different about this experience so far that we're watching. Yeah, no, I think quick delivery could be a huge opportunity for you because people have had a lot of experience with long lead times and waiting. Yeah. Yeah, and many stores and even design shops talk to me so much more today about people just, can I buy this off the floor?

50:17Can I take this now? Right? And designers, listen, designers want things right away if they can get them. I mean, so. Yeah, we did have a few of those instances early on, and we did sell a couple items off the floor our grand opening weekend because there was so much excitement about it. Yes, that we, you know, I think later we were like, wait, now we have to get a new item for the floor. Maybe we shouldn't have done that, but we couldn't resist the customer excitement. They needed two. We only had one in stock, so we did it. But yeah, it's been a fun thing to see. I would imagine, and you and I chatted about this just a little bit before we came on air.

50:54I would imagine that another, listen, ongoing challenge for every brand everywhere is building name recognition and brand recognition. And Paragold, I don't know how well known you feel Paragold is at this point. Again, with consumers and with designers and if people are, I'm betting it's a lot better than it was in 2017. Hey, well done, Rebecca. Nice. but how are you thinking about that and what are you trying to do? Because many people find, oh, let me open some retail locations and have that do a huge marketing effort on our behalf. And I'm assuming that that's part of your thinking, but tell me what else you're doing and how you're trying to get greater brand recognition.

51:40Yeah, and thanks for the recognition. You know, getting it from zero up was - Exactly, I mean, you had to listen, But you get to claim all of that as you. I appreciate that. Yeah, you know, it's good. When you start at zero, there's a lot of room for improvement. But yeah, you know, it's been one of those things we, you know, we certainly have built awareness as we talked about, but it's also one of our biggest opportunities. And it's, as you said, also something that can take a lot of time. And so we certainly are taking a multi-pronged approach to this. There's a digital element to this, and we're pushing even deeper on that.

52:19But there's also, yes, a hypothesis that by opening stores in key markets, we can get closer to our customers. They will understand the quality that we're offering and know who we are even more. In Highland Village in Houston, there is a huge amount of traffic that goes by that store every day. And the last time I looked, which was a few days ago, so as I said, very thin data, a A good portion of the people said they were coming into that store just because they had driven by. It wasn't like it was a preconceived destination. It was discovery. And so we will see how that plays out. But there's a lot of room for growth in the awareness.

53:00Yeah. And I'm curious, knowing that you were formerly a consultant and thinking about that Dartmouth MBA of yours, I'm wondering, are there key data points that you look at? that might be outside of the everyday, what most people are watching? Are there some metrics that you're looking at that you want to see moving in the right direction in a meaningful way? You know, I think you're aware of this, but we are definitely a data-driven company. And so there's a lot of metrics that we look at. But the things that I find encouraging as it relates to this topic of awareness that we've been discussing is that once people find us, they are very happy and they you know consistently the you know nps is very high the commentary on the nps is all about the product so and explain nps to people who write for example net promoter score so a customer feedback survey that essentially says would you recommend this brand or retailer or product to someone else and then it calculates you know the percent that would recommend it versus the detractors, the people that wouldn't, and it gives you a net score.

54:09And so that's numbers very high. The commentary around that is always about the quality of the products and how it even surpassed their expectations. And then, you know, objectively, we just see repeat really high. So customers shop us and they come back. And so to me, people vote with their feet. And so that's all really good signs. So that's why I say awareness is such a big opportunity, because once we find them, then they keep buying and they're buying for one room and then they come back for another room and they refresh. And so there's a lot that we can offer. But so, you know, getting to the top of the funnel is a huge opportunity.

54:44You know, in sort of wrapping up the discussion, I wonder what you've learned that has surprised you in some way, both sort of leading up to the opening of the retail stores and just what's turned out to really be important as a driver for this business in general? Leading up to the physical retail stores, I think, and this will probably make some of our supplier partners laugh, but just how much work it is to make a physical space come to life. And that has certainly been a learning there. And then, you know, I think on the broader question of what I've learned on the business, there's a lot, but I think we just staying focused on the things, what we want to deliver to the customer and always coming back to that at the end of the day is what has kept us on track.

55:36Because there's a million things you could do at any given point. And we just are trying to think about what's going to make the most impact to the customer that they want at this point. Well, and that's why, again, I'm curious about, we have a lot of designers that listen to the show. And I'm always curious about how many designers, and I'm thinking particularly, in areas where they might not have this kind of merchandise close by, right? That this is very helpful to them. When you hear from designers, I'm curious about what they're asking for or what they're looking to you for. I think, you know, I would just say broadly, we are very eager to be supportive of the design community, whether that be through servicing their product needs or also promoting designers and what we think they bring to customers.

56:27So you probably know we have a lot of partners, designer partners that we work with, and we have design or shops on our site. And we've now actually replicated those in the store. And there's been really great feedback on that because, you know, designers bring a perspective that we think really highlights what our brand does well, which is offer a lot of different styles that you can, you know, combine into a space that feels uniquely like you. So that would be one piece of it. And then in terms of meeting designer shopping needs, we get a lot of positive feedback, mostly around kind of just how easy it is to shop with us.

57:00And I had a designer tell me recently, you know, like, if I just need one item from this brand, and one item from that brand, and one item from this brand, and one item from that brand, it's a lot if I have to go to all those different brands and purchase and coordinate the logistics. But if I come to Paragold, I can typically find all of those items, I can put it into one cart, I can purchase it. I get consolidated delivery information in which we now offer, which is all of those items coming into a customer's home at once for staging. And that's a big convenience. And that designer is like, I can spend my time actually thinking about the design versus coordinating all of those pieces.

57:33So those are typically the types of pieces of feedback we hear, in addition to the one you mentioned, which is for a designer that isn't in the area of a showroom. This provides access similar to the way it would to a consumer. And it sounds like, yes, yes, we plan to roll out lots more retail locations. Let's catch our breath from this one. Get ready for West Palm Beach. And West Palm Beach, we're saying the fall right now? Yeah, it's on track to open in the September, October time frame. Okay, great. And then ideas of where you're going to be next. Anything you want to tease about a potential next location?

58:09We will definitely update everybody as soon as we have more details on, you know, what the broader plan is. But for now, you know, are celebrating opening Houston, hopefully celebrating soon opening West Palm. And we're going to see what we learn in those markets. OK, because I'm pretty excited that Wayfair has announced they're coming to to what we affectionately call the Ridge Hill Mall here near Bronxville, where I live. So I I will have what I'm assuming is going to be a pretty giant Wayfair location. So I'm looking forward to that. If you want to throw a Paragold location in there too, hey, that would be great.

58:46The people of Westchester would love that. Noted. It wouldn't be a bad spot to open up a shop. Dennis, watch out. I'm going to start calling you to consult you on all these decisions. You have a lot of information on our business. I'm there. Listen, I can't wait to get my invitation to the conference. I'm going to be a huge participant and I can't wait for that. You've got a lot of fans and so I'm excited to finally get to talk with you. And I so appreciate you making the time. Thanks so much. I appreciate it. This is fun.

59:20And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Well, it's a very divided political age, as you may know. But thankfully, Congress is coming together on the one issue all Americans can agree on. ADUs accessory dwelling units no in all seriousness I think it was maybe this week or late last week there was a proposal to put through some legislation that made it easier to borrow to build an ADU in your backyard now we've talked about ADUs on the show a lot I think they're great I don't know that they're the answer to our housing crisis but I don't think there's anything wrong with accessory dwelling units and I think it's something that a lot of people on both sides the aisle can get behind which we really need in this day and age now will this actually get voted on.

1:00:07Probably not this summer because of a very partisan issue that I'm not going to mention here on the Thursday show. But hopefully, fingers crossed that this ends up being a good piece of law and that it makes its way up the chain because I think we do need more of that kind of thing. Also, a couple of weeks ago, we talked about how the parent company of HGTV, which used to be Warner Discovery, split into two companies where all the streaming shows went on one side and all the cable networks went on the other. And how we speculated about how HGTV might be seeing some cuts. Well, they have come fast and furious.

1:00:38There have been reports that I think like six or seven shows have been cut in the past month alone, very early, even before this deal has really, you know, cooled off. So I suspect we're going to be seeing more stuff like that. I really am curious to see what HGTV looks like after all these cuts, but there appears to be some movement there. I don't know if that caught your eye as well, Dennis. It certainly did catch my eye, and I'm so curious to see what happens there. I mean, first they come for Colbert, and then HGTV. I mean, where is it going to end? Inexcusable. Yeah, exactly. Don't worry.

1:01:10We're not owned by Comcast or CBS. What caught your eye this week, Thomas? A couple of things caught my eye. One is a former guest of the show, Jomo Toriku, who is a furniture maker and a craftsperson and just an all-around interesting guy. has had several of his pieces have been added to the Vitra Design Museum collection in Germany. A huge honor for him, including the Niala chair and ottoman, which is a favorite of mine. And I really quite fell in love with when I spent some time interviewing Jomo, but I was very excited for him. So congratulations there. A huge honor. The other thing that caught my eye was actually some really interesting pricing activity that was going on in the stock market yesterday.

1:02:00I'm always looking for green shoots, signs that perhaps the home and furniture-related stocks might finally be on the recovery trail. We got some very strong numbers from two U.S. homebuilders, Pulte and D.R. Horton. Those names might not mean much to a lot of listeners out there, but they're pretty big homebuilders, and D.R. Horton jumped more than 10 % on the news. Pulte as well. They had much stronger than expected news. And what was interesting was that it lifted the whole home category yesterday. There was a big jump in Mohawk carpeting and there was a big jump in Wayfair and RH and Ethan Allen.

1:02:40And so you're sort of getting the feeling that sentiment is shifting. Regardless of the continuing bad news, we hear about housing sales and we hear a lot more of people pulling out of the purchasing of homes at the 11th hour. these past few months, you get the feeling that there is a little bit of a sentiment shift going on and more people are feeling like maybe we have seen the worst of it. So that was encouraging to see. We'll see if it sticks. Another thing for me to talk about when I'm in Vegas with people. When you bring the cheer to Vegas, I think sentiment's going to take up at least one more point.

1:03:17I hope. I hope. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.