The Thursday Show: Is the design industry ready for more tariffs? Plus: Ken Fulk's new LA shop

24:28your spouse likes it a lot. And so you kind of make it work in the space and you come to like it over time. I mean, it sounded like some of this was that, like something that might - Is this sounding like therapy, Dennis? You know how you're in your own house - You know how my wife moved that lamp into the living room and I said no. And then eventually I lost out as usual. And now I really like that lamp. Yeah, it's a lot like that. Well, I mean, I think that's true. I also think like, you know, maybe on some level, a better word for this or a word that's less objectionable is unexpected rather than ugly.

25:04You know, I do think that no one wants to see the same boring old thing. And I think that's something that grabs your attention and is really intriguing, interesting, maybe a little bit odd. All of those I'm a fan of. And, you know, I think in some ways the word pretty ugly just grabs your attention much, you know, hence us talking about it. But I don't think that most designers would disagree that an unexpected or attention grabbing touches is not a, you know, a nice thing to have in a room, maybe not the bedroom, but a nice thing to have. Well, I think that designers often talk about making your eye move around the room.

25:38Yes. Yeah. And right. And they don't they don't want it to be flat or for your eye just to have nowhere to go. That's interesting. The question is, does it need to be something jarring and does it need to be something ugly i vote for no but uh but well yeah a giant a giant toe is going to make the eye move in a different direction so that steers things in a very clever way to make me leave the room and i we have to apologize to the designer whoever that was yes maybe the client didn't do it right i'm sure that's what it was all right that's it for the news but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com including a look at Casper's next chapter and advice from Sean Lowe on the best approach to billing.

26:19We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

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27:52And we're back. I am joined today by interior designer and wait for it, Ken, purveyor of the extraordinary, Ken Falk. Wow. Right? I mean, who doesn't want an introduction like that? It's as if I wrote it myself. Exactly. Exactly. And now you're going to have to live up to it. So let's see if you can. But we're talking to Ken, who has just, for some reason that we can't fully understand yet, but he's going to tell us, has opened a retail location in West Hollywood. And it's terribly exciting. So tell us, what's the story here, Ken? We've had a studio in San Francisco for the entirety of my career.

28:37And about a decade ago, or maybe a bit more, we opened a studio in New York and Tribeca. And so we had had plans to open a studio in Los Angeles. And so we found a charming bungalow where our studio was going to be. And simultaneously, a few years ago, I had a longtime friend join me on this journey who became our CFO at my company. His career had consisted of being the CFO and president of some big major retailers, all multi-billion dollar companies. And he was intrigued by my business and came on board. And, you know, the early days of his tenure really started talking about product and what we do and why we do it.

29:27You know, and then we also do hospitality work that gets to be experienced by more people. You know, there's always been this craving of how could we take some of the magic we create and bring it to more people. We've sort of dipped our toe into that earlier. We had a collection, a large first designer ever to do something with Pottery Barn about eight years ago. But it did sort of whet the appetite for the idea of making our world more available to folks. And so L.A. provided an opportunity since we were already creating a studio from scratch. I love a story and I love a quote unquote movie. And the sort of movie for our Los Angeles moment was in my head, what if Bunny Mellon, my fellow Virginian, really was an icon in her understated elegance?

30:29She had a wonderful farm in Upperville, Virginia. And so in my funny little mind and world, I had imagined, well, what if she had kept a little bungalow in Hollywood, sort of understated and discreet, tucked into in the Kennedy era, tucked into the hedges there? And what would it be like? And so it really was a bit of a tribute to that idea, but also a little glimpse into our own world and a feeling like you were coming to visit me at home. So location-wise, if I'm looking at the map correctly, Ken, it looks as though you're right across the street from the big blue whale, the Pacific Design Center.

31:11We are. Yes? From the beloved, giant, incredible, iconic Pacific Design Center. Exactly. And we are directly across the street, sort of tucked into a beautiful little courtyard. It does feel a bit European. We've had a series of artists who are our friends come and they've done a Trump loyal effect, neoclassical like drawings on the facade of the building, which is painted this, I call it Christoffel green because I used to love those Christoffel boxes. They changed the color, by the way, which was a horrible mistake. What were they thinking? I have now patented the color. It's now Ken Falk Green and not Christophe Green.

31:56Well done. Thank you. I swooped in. So it has wonderful details on a relatively modest building to give it a sense of wit and whimsy. And we followed that idea on the interiors. one. Despite spending other people's money for a living, I'm pretty frugal on how to create beauty on a budget. And so we really leaned in. And I also wanted it to be a celebration of decorative arts and decorative artists. So in addition to the facade of the bungalow, we painted all of this series of rooms from the bunny melon inspired potting shed to this beautiful Italian masters pale pink plaster that reveals a damask or it's almost like the damask peels away and reveals the plaster underneath to a draped beautiful sort of dining room area into a faux-boad knotty pine panel den.

33:04And so really a series of rooms. And then upstairs is sort of a continuation of the residence slash studio where we have really some beautiful offices and a home-like space. And so the entire thing is very, I could live there, so to speak. Well, and what do you hope this will do for you? What void does this fill? I mean... The empty hole in my heart. What will it feel? What itch does this scratch? I mean, tell me what you've been longing for that now finally... Is released. You know, I like playing the shopkeeper, that's for sure. As I said, I do shop for a living, So I have a lot of sort of personal experience on the other side of that equation.

33:57And, you know, I don't lack for ambition. I always love to do. I love, you know, my work is my life. I don't have a line between it. It is just one big bowl of like deliciousness. And, you know, I did. I feel like I won the lottery in life. And I also recognize that it's all so brief. And having a desire to get to as much of it as I can, while I can, you know, I think about, this sounds cheesy, I might have said this before, but I do so, I so resonate it with me. That song in the musical Hamilton, like, why does he write like he's running out of time? Because there's, you know, I always feel like we're all kind of running out of time and there's so much stuff I want to do.

34:45And the idea of creating beautiful things to share with the world or being the conduit to share them. So I think that this charming little shop will probably not be the first. I think we'll have a couple more of them. We also are debuting a rather ambitious new site for our business where you'll be able to not only see everything in the shop, but you'll be able to see everything that we've sort of designed and it will be available. Now, this wonderful CFO that you spoke of earlier, did he share with you some of his own experience and mention to you some of the challenges of having a retail operation and an e-commerce operation?

35:39I'll give him a name because he deserves all the credit. His name is David DiMatteo, and he is a longtime friend and a wonderful human who really came and I think made a big difference in our core business. But if Dave did anything, it was help solidify that through a lens with vast experience. Well, and do you imagine, not just because it's across the street from the PDC, but also just that whole area is a design district. And I wonder, do you imagine a lot of designers being the customer initially or a mix of consumer and designer? How have you thought about it? I really think it'll be a mix.

36:24Certainly the convenience of the shop. Some of my favorite stores on the planet happen to be in Los Angeles. So I think we're in good company and that's an obvious community that is there. But I think beyond that, we have so many people that I feel like I know them. I control my own social media and I respond to everyone. And so I build these relationships with people I've never met and feel like they have become not just an audience, but sort of I have a friendly connection with them. And the idea that someone could come in and whether it's buying a candle or a charming dog bed that we've made out of fabric that I designed for Pierre Frey that you're only going to get in this shop, it makes me happy that folks could do that that aren't necessarily going to sign me up to work with them as a creative director on some massive project, but that I have a connection point with them that doesn't involve the sort of commitment that's required to do the core part of our business to be involved in that.

37:38As you were just saying earlier, you don't imagine that this is going to be the first and only store, it sounds like. Yes, I mean. Yeah. No, I think we do have several studios and I certainly think those are cities that we love and we do lots of work in and are sort of the foundation and the base. And so those are probably the most likely outpost for the next iteration of this. And then beyond that, I don't know yet. But let's see how it goes, Dennis. But so speaking of the movies in your mind, does this store and the e-commerce business, does this tell us anything about how the script has evolved and the movie is going in a slightly different direction?

38:37or is this just more expansion of everything Ken Folk? Does this tell us you want to do less of something else so you can focus on this or no, no? No, I don't think it's a signal of that, so to speak. I think it's just the recognition that, one, we're probably, a lot of people have been like, oh, this is a long time coming. Why haven't you done this before? And some of it was just, you know, what can you pay attention to? What is next? And I think part of it was the relationship that I began with Dave. And it's not like we haven't thought about it, but I think it is a natural progression. And it's been done with a lot of thoughtfulness.

39:28And it's really the seeds for something that I think will grow and will continue to grow. and will expand and will be more offerings along the way because that tends to be how we approach most things. We sort of start in a relatively compact, controlled environment and then let them blossom. And I feel like this is one of those instances and will be a real pillar and a core part of our business, which now has become so multifaceted, multi-hyphenated. But it's important to me that we don't just do more, but that we do it well. And I think we'll make sure that we get this right before we begin to just hit the go button on growth, because I don't think that growth for growth's sake is the right thing to do.

40:30I think we want it to be well-received and to be sought after and to sort of blossom, so to speak. And the growth will be organic. It's just sort of how everything has happened in my world. But I do, as I said, I have ambition around making sure I can get to all the good stuff in life. And I think this is part of it. Do I recall you've got a First Dibs storefront and does this fit in with that or is that sort of a separate project unto itself? It does. We do have a First Dibs storefront to help with my shopping addiction. To help clear some of the merchandise in the large warehouse. To help share it in my big warehouse.

41:19So, and in our San Francisco studio, we've long had really a gallery for everyone that works with us on the lower level that we call Peep Show. And, you know, we display items there. You know, sometimes we'll, if you're a designer pal, you can come in and look at stuff. But typically it's really been for us. But First Dibs has been a wonderful partner for us to share some of the finds and, you know, get a glimpse into our warehouse. I think that'll be the next thing we should do is go on a video tour of my warehouse because no one's ever seen it. It is quite something. And people would love to see it, right?

41:59You can imagine. I mean. Yeah. I love to see it. I go and I'm like, holy cow. Well, I mean, is all of this being sort of funded internally through the growth of your business? They're my vast fortunes, Dennis. I know. I wish. I remember my very first job out of college, a woman who I've remained friends with, she was like, I hope you're not offended by this, but you would be the best rich person I've ever met. I'm like, I know I would be. And I still feel that way. I still feel like that. I would be a great rich person. But, you know, yes, this is all just us. It's a paradox. You know, it's hard to say that I, you know, I live with in my means, yet I'm typically living beyond my means.

42:49So I don't know how that both is possible. How about this? We're self-funded, yet I live beyond my means. That's the best way to say it. Okay. Yeah, which is not a good, probably not a good combination. But so far, so good. I've made it. I feel certain that David can help you with that. Thank you. Right? He's going to keep an eye. He's probably walking into traffic right now. probably can't believe that this whole thing has happened. But so tell me what else is going on. Tell me the many other things that are going on in the life of Ken Falk. Let's see. Well, in our sort of, as I call, core business, we have some wonderful projects.

43:31We do work around the world. We're doing an exciting luxury hotel in Barcelona, which is fun. I can't tell you what it is, but that's a super fun project. We're reimagining on the hospitality front. We're reimagining perhaps the most iconic hotel in America. Can't tell you what that is yet either. But you're getting like little sneak peeks. We're working on a 36 ,000 acre ranch in Wyoming for a private ranch, which is something fun. So great, great projects like that. And then we have been working to restore and revitalize some historic hotel properties that we purchased with the idea of maintaining their integrity and making them the best version of themselves.

44:25It has been a lot of work. Yeah. Has that turned out to be a good purchase? Are you glad that you did that? Of course I'm glad. Of course I'm glad. But I don't ever do, you know, probably much to the dismay of my CFO. I don't do anything to like because of money. And I don't think you buy old historic properties to get rich. You know, you buy them because I sort of can't bear the idea that, you know, they could be lost or ruined or spoiled. world. And so, you know, and it began in COVID when it was such a challenge for so many of them. And, you know, it's a lot of hard work, a lot of hard work to do them sort of all simultaneous.

45:15And, you know, I'm someone that firmly believes that people on the outside look at things and think, oh, it's success, but you really have to be willing to go on the crooked road. And, you know, until finally you get to the point that gets identified as success. And there are probably failures along the way. And we've restored, we've created, we have a nonprofit called St. Joseph's, which is a large, really, cathedral here in San Francisco, which is a modern-day art society and arts foundation. We have one house that we restored in Provincetown that has the Provincetown Art Society there in an old 1760s house.

46:02And, you know, a lot of it is really, Dennis, about trying to connect the dots, about building communities, about being a good citizen, about, you know, trying to do good and do well all at the same time. And I talk a lot to clients when we start projects. I'm like, you know, we're not just rushing to get this. The process of this is part of the beauty and part of the journey and part of the excitement that we learn and grow and where we create those memories. It isn't just the finished product. So every day, I'm a work in progress. How about that? Well, it's interesting that you say that actually, because projects seem to be taking so much longer and costing so much more.

46:50more. And it does feel as if it is incredibly challenging these days to both keep clients engaged and hopefully lightheartedly amused in the whole process. And all joking aside, sort of keep them hanging on and see the end prize without getting too frustrated. Right? I mean, I feel like it's never been harder. Yeah, I mean, it is when I sort of look back and then think about time and money that goes into projects now, which is, you know, it's kind of staggering. But I do think that for me, because I have to love my clients and I hope in return that they love me. And so it's fun. I think that's easy to forget when you're spending a lot of money and you're making millions of decisions for the joy to get stripped away.

47:48And so often people who are undertaking these large projects, money isn't really the obstacle for them having what they want. They could go buy anything. And it's really become, I think, nearly all of our clients. It's no longer about accumulation or about status. It is, and it maybe sounds a little schmaltzy, but it really is about sort of time well spent and imprinting memories and who you're with and where, you know, your life is sort of unfolding and how. You know, I think we sort of become the facilitators and the orchestrators and lubricant of this thing for our clients that it's far beyond just delivering them a project or a home or it's, you know, helping to develop the life that's going to transpire there and, you know, make those memories.

48:46But even the process is part of that. And I try to remind them all the time and make it as fun and joyful as we can along the way. Just a lovely conversation last night with a client who was conveying, you know, we've done lots of things for them, including a very fancy plane. And, you know, they had flown somewhere in this fancy plane and he was so grateful because of how special it made, you know, their lives. And then he arrived somewhere and he was staying in a hotel room that we had designed. And then he went to dinner at a restaurant that we happened to have designed. And so the beautiful thing over dinner, I know, huh?

49:30The beautiful thing over dinner, though, was which was so lovely. He's like, I'm living in a world that you crafted and my life is so much better because of it. It brings me so much happiness. And I don't even know how to thank you. And I was teary eyed about it. Like, I don't think about it that way, but for him, you know, it really was that case. And, you know, they, and to getting to, to do that for people, that's the drug of what we do because, you know, you know how excited you get when you find a great gift for someone and you can't wait to give it to them. and you kind of want to spill the secret ahead of time and you're waiting with the excitement.

50:11And it's almost more fun to give it than it is to even receive that. And I feel like that's my job is to like trying to give people great gifts and bring them joy all the time. And like, what a lucky thing to get to do. Well, and is that part of how you're seeing this store? Look how I'm bringing it back now. Oh, you are full circle. You're good at this. Hello. Hello. You should have a show. It is. I think the opportunity to spread more of that around and to engage with more people and to bring a little piece of that to a larger audience. Again, because I'm not a, despite having a shop, I'm not a transactional person.

51:01I don't sort of see life through that lens. but the idea that I might be the purveyor of something that feels extraordinary. How about bringing it full circle there to, uh, to, to someone, you know, I think we've all done it. Like we have a little mementos that make us feel good about it. Whether it's, I used to bring the hotel cost candle home because it reminded me of being transported to that place. And And I couldn't bring the whole thing home, and I didn't have the money to live in an extravagant Jacques Garcia design. But somehow burning that scent in my home made me feel that way or whatever memento I might have found along a journey.

51:50And I treasure them. My life is enriched by having them and seeing them and the memories they trigger. And is there a signature scent for the new stores? Of course there is, Dennis. Funny you say that. Funny you should mention. Okay, here's the QR code. There are two. They're actually getting ready to be available for you to, but they're two, again, deeply personal for me because it's the only way I know how to do stuff. And they happen to have the sensor numbered. They're both our, you can come visit me as a result because they're both our house numbers, two of our houses, because they each remind me of the sort of environment and the feeling I get when I'm in Provincetown.

52:41And then the other is influenced by this other intoxicating, transportive place that we live in San Francisco. I call it the treehouse, and it definitely has a scent and so it's made by the way entirely out of untreated redwood that has had no stain or anything or finish put on it and it was built under a under a tent and for two and a half years to protect the wood at first so that house is mesmerizing to me as is my enchanted life in San Francisco. And so we have a scent dedicated to that. And they're sort of complimentary yet utterly different. So they will be available for the first time ever at the shop and very soon online.

53:32Okay. Well, hopefully you've got deep inventory because people are going to hear this and they're going to be... We're sold out, Dennis. We're sold out. Well, I'm excited for you. I'm eager to get out to LA and see the shop. I'm sending the plane, Dennis. Well, you're so kind. It may be a two-seater. That's fine. It may take us a few stops, but we'll eventually get there. I look forward to it. I'm thrilled to get to speak with you, and I really appreciate you making the time, and I'm excited for you. It's a pleasure to be back. Thank you for having me, and I love talking to you, Dennis.

54:14And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred? A podcast caught my eye. Not our podcast. Another podcast. Wait, there's another one? There's at least one more. It's called Acquired. And it's a great show. It's these two guys who do these really deep dives into businesses, you know, like seven hours on Berkshire Hathaway. You have to have the patience for it, but it's a really fun deep dive into the history of how a business gets built. And I've been crossing my fingers that they do RH.

54:46They haven't done it yet, but this week they announced Ikea. So I'm really excited to dig in on that and check it out. I don't know why I'm recommending it because I guess you have actually listened to it. So maybe you should be the one who's recommending this. Well, and it's such an interesting show, and I don't want to give too much away, but the young founder of IKEA once borrowed 500 kroner to help build his fountain pen business in the early days. And that 500 kroner was the only money the company borrowed for the rest of its history. Wow. Amazing. 50 billion return. Exactly. Exactly. At one time he was worth like$60 billion himself, and it was all just from borrowing 500 Swedish krona for his fountain pen business.

55:31I would not even know what a krona looks like if you handed one to me. What caught your eye this week, Dennis? It's an amazing story. What caught my eye, a follow-up from last week's conversation or mentioning the fact that the Mika Erdogan sale was happening at Christie's, and the first part of it happened, and indeed some records were set. There's a new member of the$100 million club as Rene Magritte went down for$121 million. Wow. And in total, the first part of the sale brought in about$183 million, so well above the expectations. But many people were watching this quite closely as Mika Erdogan had a really tremendous art collection and was just such a tastemaker in her day.

56:22And many people were participating and it was fun to watch the on the phone bidding that was taking place and the price just go higher and higher. But so much talk about the art market struggling, but not at that auction, clearly. Incredible designer, incredible collection. Really exciting to see that. I love that painting in particular. So, you know, this was just kind of a fun moment and a little bit of good news. Yeah, I agree. It was very fun. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com.

56:57If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.