The Thursday Show: Jenni Kayne's adventures in home and hospitality. Plus: Is the DCOTA headed for auction?

26:42B, I don't know who these people are and what's going on for them. And what do they do if they don't have a bunch of books? So there's a lot there. Yeah, it's funny. I feel like that's a perennial problem. One of the editors here at Business Film was talking about how at a past job, I think they were working on a shoot for a magazine and the designer showed up for the shoot and there was like walls and walls of library space, miles of shelving. And the designer, the client had said, I'm a huge book collector. Like there'll be no problem. And they showed up and there was one cardboard box filled with books.

27:14And the designer was just freaking out because of course, you know, a photographer was set to show up immediately and they, you know, they had one tiny corner filled up. So that is, that is a very common phenomenon. I also think, you know, it's everyone listening to this probably knows this already, but But I don't think the casual observer really knows that the books that are in design photos are usually not the clients. Or if they're not the clients, they're certainly arranged by the designer and the stylist. So there's often kind of like a hidden meaning to the choice of books. Sometimes it's fairly straightforward.

27:47Like, oh, the client is into watches. So there's a book about watches on the coffee table. That's pretty straight ahead. But people do a little kind of fun little shout outs. I don't know if that caught you by surprise. But like sometimes like a designer will put a book by their mentor in the project. There was a fun story from the piece that came out. You know, Elizabeth Lawrence of Williams Lawrence, Bunny Williams's firm, talked about how she and her staff put this book, The Goldfinch, onto a lot of shelves of their projects because there was a, you know, it's a very popular book. And it had like debates, you know, in the office.

28:16Apparently Bunny herself doesn't love the book. So I just think there's kind of fun little stories that come out of, you know, adventurous styling books on set. Well, and I love that you got into that, Fred, and I knew I could count on you for a lengthy, detailed article on this fun subject. And I have had designers talk about giving a nod to an architect who worked on the house or giving a nod to some people that they've worked with in the past, but also just trying to hide a funny book title in the mix and see if people sort of pick up on it. And even just the whole use of books as props or almost furniture-like pieces, that whole discussion around how else could I bring some color into the room?

29:02Wait a minute. A few books are just a simple way to do that. So I find the whole subject fascinating to me. and the Tom Ford book and your piece about the AD 100 book, I thought was interesting when that might or might not show up in certain projects. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think like another sort of unspoken thing is that I think that, you know, you're not going to necessarily see in a magazine photo shoot in House Beautiful, you're not going to see a bunch of Architectural Digest books, you know, littering the coffee tables. And the Tom Ford book, too, I think is particularly funny. It's, you know, I think a lot of people will be familiar with that 2008 and a career retrospective, the big giant 11 pound black book that has the words Tom Ford written in white on the spine.

29:48You see it everywhere. That is like become as ubiquitous as Ivory Bouclay and Fiddle Leaf Fig. Everyone is pouring over Tom Ford's book. Exactly. And it was funny because I spoke to our friend Jill Cohen, who's, I would say, the biggest design book, I don't know, in Bresaria. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, the Doyen of design books. And she worked on that book. And I don't think she totally knew exactly why it was such a hit, but it really is a hit. I mean, you can look on eBay and people sell like hollow versions of that book that you can keep your TV remotes in. It's really such a hit and kind of funny to go looking for that stuff.

30:26So if nothing else, it was a fun indulgence into a funny subject. I promise now that summer is over, we're going to get down to the hard-hitting investigative journalism. But for August, it's books. Well, I loved it. And being married to a former librarian, we're all about being surrounded by books. So I'm all for it. All right, that's it for the news. But there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including an overview of September's can't miss design events and tips on choosing a sustainable rug. We'll be back in a minute. But first, a quick break.

31:02We're taking a quick break from the show to highlight Global Views, a proud member of the Surya brand family. Celebrated for its charismatic approach to design, Global Views has been a leader in luxury home decor, furniture, and lighting for over 25 years. Committed to supporting the design community, Global Views delivers exceptional quality and avant-garde designs crafted by global artisans. Global Views invites you to explore its product range, request a catalog, and find endless inspiration at GlobalViews.com.

31:41Okay, I am joined by Jenny Kane, the founder of the lifestyle brand that bears her name. Jenny, welcome. Hi, thanks for having me. So great to have you. For listeners who might not be familiar with the fashion and home side of the business and all of the other elements, give us a little background on the brand that you've built over the years. Yeah. So Jenny Kane is a lifestyle brand. I'm the founder and designer. I created the brand more than 20 years ago when I was just 19 and always envisioned it as much more than fashion and wanted to have like a lifestyle brand that kind of spanned all categories.

32:23So from what you wear to how you're decorating your home, what you're setting your table with and what you're putting in and on your body. Furniture, too, has become a bigger part of the operation. Yes. Yeah. So when I started the brand, I was super young and it was basically a ready-to-wear collection. My bread and butter and focus has always been knitwear, which still it is to this day. But I always envisioned it being something larger. So as soon as the brand grew and scaled and we had enough bandwidth to go into other categories, we started with home accessories, pillows, throws, candles, things like that.

33:00And then it evolved into furniture and larger pieces. And I always loved having my own stores, my own retail. So when it came to the home, it was really nice to bring it to life in those stores. But also we wanted to do something different. So we created a home in Santinez and now this one in Tivoli, which I know we'll talk about, where we really like brought the Jenny Kane lifestyle to reality through furniture and just experience. Tell me a little bit about the evolution of or the process behind taking a fashion brand and translating it into the home. Yeah. So I always believe when it comes to design that everything at Jenny Kane speaks the same language.

33:51I think the biggest challenge was just moving into these new categories, finding the right production, making sure that the quality felt in line with the clothing, and just figuring out how to do it all. Yeah. And if I recall, there was a shop in Soho that introduced some of the furniture early on. And have you worked it into, because you have quite a few locations now around the country. Yeah, we're almost at 30 stores. Most of the stores have a penetration of home and fashion. A couple of the stores are only home. Well, maybe they have a little bit of fashion, but they're primarily home. So Westport, Connecticut is primarily home.

34:34Soho was the first freestanding home store, which is definitely our largest store as well. And then Montecito Home. And then a lot of the other stores that we're building out since we kind of started doing more home have enough square footage to support both. So maybe they can't have a bed, but they definitely have a living room and a dining room. And when you walk in, I think it really kind of sets the tone for what the brand is. And we teased or we mentioned this property in the Hudson Valley, which is the latest news coming out of the Jenny Kane organization is this – well, you tell me what it is exactly because it sounds like it's got baby goats and there's some apothecary and there's quite a bit going on up in Tivoli.

35:24So I'll start by telling you a little bit about, we did a ranch in Santinez, which is two and a half hours north of Los Angeles. And we did that a couple of years ago. And we basically gutted this home that had great bones and it had the most beautiful, expansive views. And we were able to create a pretty magical property. And after having that as a part of the business for a few years, we really wanted to do something on the East Coast. because I'm known as such a California brand, but we do have several stores on the East Coast and a lot of our customers are there. And while I think people really are drawn to the California aesthetic, I really do think that it can be anywhere.

36:06So we decided to do our second home and we looked kind of all over and fell in love with the Hudson Valley, specifically this property in Tivoli. And it's just magical. It's such a different landscape than what I'm used to. but evokes a lot of the same feelings that the Santinez property did. I actually just went for the first time. I've been doing everything from pictures and our team, who's incredible, has been going back and forth. And I just went for the weekend and I just was blown away. It's so beautiful and it's a really special place. So Julia, your CEO, who we had on the show a couple of years ago, and she talked about the important role that the real estate acquisition, like Santé Inés, as you were talking about, bringing the brand to life, having a bunch of events there, bringing customers, letting them experience the Jenny Kane brand on a lot of different levels.

37:02And then maybe you move on and you sell the property, right? And you kind of bring the show to the next town, if you will. Totally. And is that very much the thinking with the Hudson Valley and Tivoli? Yeah, I think a little bit different. So yes, we will use it. We've already started to do like tons of shoots and marketing and things like that. And then we are having friends of the brand and editors and people like that come and stay at the house and experience it. And I think what's different about this one is we do have the Oak Spa attached to it, which has been really fun. So tell us what that is.

37:34So what's the Oak Spa? Yeah. So it's a beautiful greenhouse where you can come and have facials and treatments using all of the Oak product and every bathroom is filled with Oak. And there's just going to be like lots of kind of, um, different activations that the team does there with Oak. So we'll do all of that. And then we want to open up to the public and do things where we're customers and more public, um, facing events. So that would be exciting. And then, yeah, I mean, eventually probably we'll have, we'll have to move on to be able to create the next one, but that's not even a thought right now.

38:07And what has your experience shown you about what these activations do for the for the brand? Because I know, I mean, as fun as it looks, I know you're, you're very focused too on on on the business and how this is going to right drive traffic and but but tell me what you've what you've learned from the process. In the last, you know, several years, everything has gone. The focus has been so much online and and growing e commerce and and that's such a huge part of our business and it's great. But I really feel like people miss that experience of walking into a place and feeling it and shopping and just having that experience of touching and real life, right?

38:50Like not just being behind a screen. So creating homes like this and stores, but specifically like this farm, I feel like people really can understand what the brand is about and they can have a different experience around it and that inevitably brings them closer to the brand makes them fall more in love with the product and um and yeah people shop from it so all the kind of home tours or the ranch and the farm have all been um a big part of the growth in the business it it seemed like so i spoke to your ceos again a couple of years ago we were still making our way through COVID. Obviously, we're in a very different place right now.

39:36Supply chains have eased up. And it looked as though many of the furniture items, for example, that I saw on your site looked as though they were readily available and you didn't have to wait. So I think that's one of the things that sets us apart from most of our competitors is it was really important to Julia to have stock. So we invested pretty heavily in the styles that we are very confident in and most things are available immediately. So I think that that really sets us apart as a furniture brand. We've talked a lot lately about the challenges that many e-commerce brands are facing. And I'm sure you're trying to deal with that as well.

40:20What we're told by many companies is the customer acquisition costs went up dramatically and they There were algorithmic changes to Google and other search engines. What have you found? What specifically have you noticed about some of the changes that have taken place online? We have not been investing heavily in digital marketing at all. I mean, I don't think we're investing at all in digital marketing for home. We really focus more on the clothing because of that. So it's really organic growth. So in thinking about organic growth and in thinking, so you mentioned about having this amazing space in Tivoli, for example, to do photo shoots and to create lifestyle images.

41:07Is that a big part of what this represents? A hundred percent. Like I think we've been very creative with our marketing and we have such an incredible team to kind of bring these experiences to life. And I feel like having this house really, it's different. Like there aren't a lot of brands doing things like this and we get so much out of it from friends of the brand and press and things like that, experiencing it to just all of the imagery and the marketing that we can pull from it. Have you noticed a change in what your customer is looking for in recent years? Did we see any big shifts? I mean, I know that your palate tends to be pretty neutral, right?

41:53That's a lot of what defines your look and feel. Have you noticed any even subtle changes in what people are looking for or asking you for? Or do they ask you for things? I don't think I've really noticed many changes. I think one of the other things that really sets our brand apart is our repeat customer is really loyal and really strong. And so just knowing that it's like the balance of having these core products that you can always find that are neutral and available always, which is really kind of like the bulk of the business. but then also always keeping in mind that there needs to be a little bit of newness and things that are special because you want people to continue to come back.

42:38So once they've kind of built out their living room or built out their wardrobe, what's going to make them continue to shop with you? Which is always the challenge, right? And that's the challenge that so many in the furniture space have is, okay, well, we've sold them all the sofas. And the big problem that we've realized is we pulled so much business forward during COVID. You seem to be very good at maintaining customer loyalty and keeping people around. What's the trick to doing that? Yeah. I mean, again, I think it kind of goes back to marketing. I think the team is so strong. And so all of the incredible shoots and imagery that we have coming out, I think make people want to come back and kind of re-envision small changes they can make in their home.

43:22For me, like I really believe in living seasonally. So, you know, even though I'm not redecorating my home all the time, I'm adding more layers in the fall, changing up the scents throughout the house, more, you know, sheepskins and blankets and making it cozier and then kind of stripping back and looking for lighter pieces in the spring and the summer. So I think we've been really kind of leaning into that and giving customers something new each season that still feels like it's timeless and forever. What's your big focus in terms of what you're hoping to see happen as far as different areas of your business expanding in the coming years?

44:02What are you working on most? I'm really happy and really kind of blown away where the business is today. And so I think just kind of capitalizing on all of the success we've had and growing a little bit slower and just really giving customers what they want, opening more stores in areas where it makes sense. And not necessarily going into more categories, but really kind of honing in on what people want from us within those categories. As far as Oak, it's doing incredibly well. So we're opening up wholesale. We have new products launching pretty consistently. And yes, I would love to open up a spa experience besides the one that we're doing in Tivoli and really grow the brand and get it on more people's skin.

44:55People that use it absolutely love it. So if Tivoli is well-received, right? And people say, oh my gosh, I wish there was more of these. Could you imagine these home-like experiences being the place where they also experience Oak Wellness and they come together? Totally. Yeah. I think it's, even though it's two different brands, it's all one world under the same umbrella and yes, a hundred percent. And, um, even when we first talked about before this home, when we first talked about like the, what the first Oak spa would look like, um, it always was kind of in a residential home. I feel like that's, it just makes sense.

45:32It seems like you had a, a, a wonderful array of brand partners for the, for the space in, in Tivoli. Uh, I see waterworks is in there and some others. Um, tell me about how you thought about that. Tell me how you were thinking about the aesthetic and the, and the partners you wanted to work with. Yeah. So as we kind of envisioned what the home was going to look like and honed in on the design, kind of looking at our tried and true favorite brands that we like to work with, we've reached out to them and we're so excited to be able to collaborate with them so waterworks is always one of my favorites for fixtures it's just so beautiful and they do such an amazing job and the quality and so we we ended up using the henry collection which i really love all in nickel throughout the house and it just it looks great the house is a little more modern and so it just felt like the right tone and then we worked with portola paint um for their lime wash plaster and their lime wash and their plaster and i really was excited to collaborate with Sheila from Gallery Provenance, who's also a friend and neighbor, and she has the most beautiful vintage furniture.

46:41And I feel like whenever we do these homes, as much as it's for the brand and we want it to be as much Jenny Kane as possible, the whole point is to make it feel real and have it be like you were walking into my home. And it's not realistic for it to just be all one thing um i wouldn't live like that like the brand has always been kind of rooted around around me and how i live um and it's and it's real and it's genuine like um i really care about all the small details in life i love beautiful things but i also like want to live in my home i don't want anything to be too precious i have three kids i have like 20 animals that live here like Like, it's like a circus.

47:23That's what's so funny to me, as you say, with Tanner, Ripley, and Trooper running around and all the animals, an animal walking behind you right now. I mean, so I wonder, tell me how that works for you. Tell me how, because one assumes that there's just calamity constantly, but the look and feel doesn't reveal that in some way, maybe? I love a neutral palette because for me, I'm surrounded by designing things all the time, right? Like different texture and color. And I mean, even if it's not a lot of color, but color and print and pattern and all the things. And so for me, when I come home, I want my space to be very quiet.

48:07I want my space to be calming and soothing. So that's kind of like how I approach a project or approach my own home. And then it's about, well, how are you going to live in this space? So I'm always a fan of actually not completely designing or decorating a room until you've actually spent some time in it because maybe the coffee table you thought you needed is actually absolutely not what you need because you need something you can put your feet up on or you need something that you can move around. Um, and so I think really like seeing how your family lives or how you live and, and designing a space around that, um, you know, sofas can be slip covered in linen because yeah, kids are going to mess them up.

48:48Dogs are going to get dirty footprints on them and you should be able to dry clean them, put them in the washer, you know, whatever it is that you do. So I think really, even though things are beautiful, they should, they should be lived in. Well, and you talked about, you sort of joked about color. And I see that often in the press, people sort of joke with you about color. And you say, no, no, no, I'm not afraid of color. I just, as you were saying, your palate suggests quiet to you and peace, it sounds like, which is what I'm sure with three children, you're often trying to find in your life more and more.

49:22So it's not an anti-color statement that you're making. It's just how you find you personally respond to the palette that you create. I like a very neutral, clean palette. And then I like to bring in a pop here and there. And maybe my pop's not as bright as other people's. But like in my living room, I have a mustard pillow right now. But for me, I may not want that mustard pillow forever. So I want to do it in a way where it's not a huge investment. That mustard pillow is not going to be there for long. No, I mean, it's been here two years, which is, yeah, it's surprising. But maybe, you know, maybe it'll be coral in a year or something like that.

49:59And by doing it in a small way, you're not like, it's not a huge investment. You're not completely redecorating your home. I have a very close friend of mine who like gets very into one thing. She'll design her entire home around it. And then she like hates it in six months and wants to redo it. That's not how I live. I live like for forever now is what I want to see in 10 years too. So whether you want to like, add in small pieces to change it up a little bit. Like I don't want to completely redecorate my world every year because I've chosen something that's too trendy. Often when we talk to designers, they talk about walking this fine line of how much they reveal about the real behind the scenes of one's chaotic life.

50:43You have this huge social media following. And of course, I'm sure people are ever eager to see what's going on for you and how you're living, how do you think about what you share, how you share it, and what you put out there? I don't mind kind of letting people into my home in terms of having shoots and sharing the way I live that way, but I'm very private in other ways. So like I would never, like people have asked me to be on reality TV shows, I would never. I wouldn't have public facing events in my home. I'm very private when it comes to that, but I'm okay showing you my living room. I'm proud of my living room.

51:28I love my living room. And then I think as far as when you see those Instagram versus reality, my team does a pretty great job of putting together reels on Instagram and TikTok that like show reality so you'll show you'll see like you know a put together outfit in a beautiful room um and me taking a picture and then like a pony you know trotting by that's gotten loose from a child and maybe i'm like weeding while we walk to the next shoot you know like i there's a lot of animals and there's a lot of stuff going on and it's definitely not perfect well and and it uh again i'm still recovering from the disappointment that i won't find baby goats at the place in when I get up there.

52:10But I am eager to get up there and see it. So it sounds as though right now it's not a public facing property yet. You're figuring out how that's going to evolve and your hope is to be able to have some events there. Yes? Totally. Yeah, we definitely will be. I think we're treating it similarly to Santina's. So right now, we've just been rolling out photo shoots and getting all the content we need and making sure the house is totally ready for guests. So I just went and like went through the punch list of all the things that happen whenever you do construction anywhere because I want it to be as perfect as possible for people to experience.

52:46And then people will, friends of the brand and editors will start staying there. And then yes, I would love to be able to do public facing events like we've done in Los Angeles and in some of the homes that we've created here. Okay, so friends of the brand. We'll find out what it takes to become a friend of the brand to get to stay in Tivoli. But do you imagine the real estate market's been so crazy these past few years, especially out in California where you are, but really all around. And so that's made it a little bit harder to find great places to do this, I'm assuming, even for you. Do you wish you could do more?

53:22Are you always sort of on the hunt for properties that you want to transform? I mean, practically, we're doing one at a time. But if you let me go, I would do 10. So somebody is holding you back and saying, no, no, we can't. Okay. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because they do sound like they're big undertakings. They're big undertakings. For me, they're really fun and inspiring. I love creating beautiful spaces. So that's why I say I would do 10. But it's a business, right? So it all has to make sense. And when Julia tells me we can do the next one, we will. Okay. But right now, Julia is saying, okay, let's finish up with this one.

54:00Yeah. One at a time. Okay. Anything else that you want to tease that's coming up for you that you're allowed to say anything about? Oh, God, I don't even know what I'm allowed to say, so I shouldn't. Okay, so there's all sorts of things, but you can't say. All right. Yes. Well, we'll check back in with you when Julia gives you permission, I guess, to reveal things. But in the meantime, I'm so glad to get to speak with you, and I thank you so much for your time. Yes, so nice to meet you.

54:30And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Well, I had a fun conversation with a listener last week, actually. It was really interesting. I don't know if you remember a couple weeks ago we were talking about how certain resort towns have these very strict building codes where you can't build a house over 3 ,000 square feet. I was curious to hear from designers how they felt about it because I think on the one hand, a lot of designers want to preserve the local charm of a place.

55:02On the other hand, a bigger home means more time, more energy, and more money ultimately for them. So I ended up speaking with Aspen designer Allison Agley about it who wrote into the show. And she had a lot of really interesting thoughts. And she did talk about that kind of like balance between feeling frustrated by building codes, but wanting to preserve the local charm of the town. Allison was very much, though, in favor, ultimately, of these kinds of restrictions. I think like, you know, if you're a local in one of these towns like Aspen or the Hamptons, you know, as you know, she's lived there for, I think, 20, 30 years, you want to preserve what makes it special.

55:38And I think at the end of the day, while it is frustrating to have these constantly shifting building codes and staying on top of those and not all clients love it. I think she was very much in favor of that. And I think you'd probably hear the same from other designers in places like Aspen. It was also an interesting conversation just quickly because we've talked a lot about how the home industry is struggling and how not every designer has a full pipeline right now. But she was saying like, look, in Aspen, everyone is completely booked. It is totally popping right now. So it's a good reminder that what's true on the macro level is not true for the local economy.

56:09So good to hear that if nothing else, Aspen is popping. No, no, no, absolutely. And there are plenty of parts of the country. I'm in Tennessee, and Nashville isn't very far from where I am right now. And it's very busy there. So there are lots of busy pockets. But it was great to hear from a listener. And I wish that we would hear from more listeners. I wish listeners would want to encourage listeners to write in and share thoughts or questions because we really would love to hear from more of you. What caught your eye this week, Dennis? I was sent by a couple of different listeners, speaking of listeners, an article that the New York Times did about air conditioning that was quite interesting.

56:49Emily Badger wrote a piece how air conditioning made the U.S. expect Arizona to feel the same as Maine. And it was an article in part about how we've become a little bit numb, perhaps, to some of the dramatic things that are happening around temperature and climate change because we're just all in air-conditioned spaces now. And so we don't notice how hot it's gotten in Las Vegas, as the piece pointed out, or in some of these other areas where temperatures have just risen so much. But also it talked about how we perhaps dialed back on some of the architectural innovations and developments of other ways that we used to keep places cool or we used to battle the heat.

57:41And you and I were talking about porches just recently on the show. And that used to be one of the ways that we dealt with the heat. We didn't have air conditionings in certain markets. And so you went out on the porch and now that's part of the reason that that porches and other things have been going away is because of air conditioning. But it was a it was a really interesting piece. And I think designers would be interested to read it because so often there are these huge decisions you have to make about cooling systems and everything else, but also just where we're where we're living around the country and what it means.

58:18Yeah, it's funny. I remember doing an article about, you know, climate change and how it was affecting interior designers. And I was speaking to someone in Phoenix and they were just saying, look, like we barely we're never not in air conditioning. So it's almost like it's not even part of the day to day reality because people aren't walking down the street. They're driving from one air conditioned venue in an air conditioned car to the other air conditioned venue. And certainly if I lived in Phoenix, I would do the same. So it's understandable. But it'd be nice to get a little bit of a reality check and a reminder on, you know, all the different things going on out there.

58:50Absolutely. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thank you so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.