The Thursday Show: John Edelman's quest for good plastic. Plus: Schoolhouse and Food52 cut deep

25:20And that's Europe, not here. But, you know, and there was, of course, that big story about how Salone, the big festival, was losing people to the sort of smaller satellite fairs. So I do think there was some attrition during COVID, whereas I think you sort of see the rise of these sort of smaller events that are a little more communal, a little more intimate. But yeah, you are right. It's certainly not like we're all, you know, beaming in via hologram to look at the Century Showroom. That definitely has not happened. When I look at like what feels really different in the industry as a result of COVID, interestingly, I think our earlier story about the Charleston Design District is one of the things that I think has been an outsized impact from COVID is just how much the geography has changed in terms of important markets.

26:04And I think that's actually very significant and tied to COVID. Yes, no, Texas for sure. I mean, all the people fleeing the big coastal hubs definitely is a big part of the story. Nashville getting bigger. I mean, you can even see a situation where it was like Austin got bigger, then peeled back a little bit. So we've already been through two cycles around from sort of the shift to leaving these big coastal cities. So I think that's something that's definitely changed. I think kind of like for me, just to sort of close the conversation, one of the big open questions is there was a lot of talk during COVID around how this is going to reorient Americans' obsession towards their home.

26:40So, you know, for the past 20 years, we've all been obsessed with work and we've been traveling and we've been going to parties. But now we're going to focus on the home. This is going to be the decade of home. This will have a lasting impact on American psyches around the importance of home. And, you know, what we've seen since the sort of COVID boom is over is actually a huge drop off and, you know, purchasing for home goods. But I sort of think that's, you know, largely explained by the fact that just people had bought all the stuff that they needed during COVID. So the big question for me is that once we get past that sort of four or five, six year cycle, when some of that stuff starts to wear out a little bit, are we going to see the same, you know, continued elevation of the importance of home that we saw during COVID?

27:20Or was that just sort of a flash in the pan? And that's a big open question. I don't know if Americans are going to as forever be obsessed with their homes as they were during 2021 and 2022. But what do you think? No, I think it's a great point. And I think that the lasting impact of the outdoor space remains. And clearly, and we've talked about that on the show, that part is still very strong. But you're right. We got so giddy with the decade of home and thinking that this was going to be the golden age. And it certainly hasn't felt like a golden age for the last several years. Don't even look at that price chart of our age, Fred, because it is down hard and way fair too.

27:59So, I mean, it certainly hasn't been a golden age. I will be so curious if we get through this higher mortgage rate, slow housing market, what it looks like on the other side. But I fear that we're in for some tough sledding for a while to come. So that golden age of home, I don't know, fits just around the corner. And speaking of America's love of home, Fred, we're going to move on to talk about Kitchen Islands. For the Wall Street Journal this week, Maria Neumann spoke with nine homeowners who were ditching their center islands and swapping out for classic kitchen tables. This is Gail Davis's revenge here, Dennis.

28:36I know you reached out to designers on Instagram about this. I'm hoping that she was the first one to reply to your poll. Well, Gail Davis is indeed feeling vindicated, ladies and gentlemen. And yes, I joked about how poor Gail had to practically go into the witness protection program after her own kitchen was published without an island. And the world just exploded. How can you live like that? What's wrong with you? But Gail felt like she was in the right. She felt like she had Sophie Donaldson's Uncommon Kitchen book behind her. and she felt like more people should have a nice table and some chairs.

29:18And now it seems like at least everyone they spoke to for this article seems to agree, right? Exactly. Nine homeowners, which is definitely a statistically meaningful number if there ever was one. Yeah, I mean, I do think that there is a little bit of a movement towards, you know, away from the sort of hyper-prescribed built-in kitchen where every element is bolted into the wall. And Sophie Donaldson, formerly of Business of Homes Parish, has a book on Common Kitchen all about these kitchens that are very kind of European, a little bit more composed of furniture that you can pull out of the floor.

29:55So I think it's a little bit of a movement. I don't know if it's a trend sweeping the nation, though. I still think there's a lot of support for islands out there. But what did designers say to you on Instagram, Dennis? I'm curious to hear what they said. Well, it's interesting because a lot of designers talked about the fact that it was challenging to have the conversation with clients because it seemed a little unconventional. Atelier Arm Brewster talked about this very issue that she's actually tried to present not having an island to clients, but it sort of makes them nervous on some level.

30:29And whether it seems unconventional or whether, as we've talked about in the past, the whole issue of resale or thinking about what will the next person think. But interestingly enough, several people weighed in feeling quite strongly that, no, you need to have an island, dot, dot, dot, particularly if you have children. So one of my favorite follows actually on Instagram is Mary Orton Scudellari, who is absolutely hilarious. And her coverage of home is always fun and entertaining. She, interestingly enough, is redoing her kitchen with none other than Gene Stouffer, former guest of the show and kitchen designer extraordinaire.

31:10and apparently the first order of the day on the redesign is to get that island back because Mary has had numerous children over the past few years and you want to have those kids on a level surface where you are when you're working in the kitchen and that was a big issue and Parker Boy Larson weighed in with essentially the same notion that if you have kids, an island is actually just so much easier to clean up and there's all sorts of organizational benefits to it. So it was, there went the romance for those darn kids, right? Well, it's funny because like one of the people in the Wall Street Journal article said that they actually wanted a table specifically because they had kids, because they felt that like their little kids gyrating on one of those bar stools and falling off and dropping knives from a four-foot height was dangerous enough in itself.

31:59So I think that issue can cut, no pun intended, both ways. I don't know. I mean, I have kids. I don't have a kitchen island because my kitchen is too small, so it's maybe a separate issue. I do think it is interesting, though, just to realize that the kitchen island is not some invention that was handed down from the ancient Greeks and has always been in the American kitchen. It's a relatively new obsession, and I think that I had an interview a while back with Karen Williams. I think she's now the proprietor, or certainly a leader at St. Charles Kitchens here in New York, and she was talking about how Or, you know, the 90s was the rise of an island, and you had whole archipelagos of Kitchen Island, three-part islands.

32:38And so it is something that's relatively recent, and I don't see a reason why it always has to be there. But I do think there is, you know, frankly, a lot of utility in them. And I think that, you know, if you want a Kitchen Island, I don't think you should feel bad for or off-trend for having one. But I also don't think it should be the default, and I think we should all collectively owe Gail Davison an apology on that one. Exactly. This is Gail Davis' moment, and I'm happy for her, and I want her to drink this in. All right. Finally, some sad news. Pilar Velades, design journalist and Shelter Magazine veteran, has passed away.

33:15A graduate of Harvard University's School of Design, Velades went on to publish a prolific amount of design coverage, serving as editor at House and Garden and Architectural Digest, before becoming design editor at the New York Times Magazine and T Magazine for nearly 17 years. She was a generous mentor, a meticulous and acute colleague, and a lovelier friend, wrote design journalist Julie Lasky on Instagram. The world will be much doubtier without her. That is a great tribute from Julie, and this was just terribly sad to hear about. Pilar was just always a fixture in the design world and someone I definitely looked up to.

33:53and she had a razor sharp wit. If you sat down next to her at dinner, you know she would make a few satirical comments. I remember the first time I met her, I explained, oh, I cover the business of interior design. And she was like, oh, I didn't know it was a business. She was terribly funny and a very sharp writer. And this is just very sad, but it's also very sweet to see the tributes pouring out to Pilar on Instagram today. And I'm sure there'll be more. Yes, no, she was widely admired. a former colleague of my wife's for many years, and my wife was enormously fond of her as well. She will definitely be missed, and I'm sure there will be a tremendous outpouring for her.

34:33All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including a look at Rarify's next steps and a profile of a glass artist who's reviving traditional techniques. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

34:51We're taking a quick break from the show to remind you about Jaipur Living. Jaipur Living's curated collection of geometric rugs brings the art of angles and timeless craftsmanship into the home. Inspired by the patterns of faraway places, from Moroccan tiles to Bauhaus lines, these artisan-made rugs tell a story of style, movement, and a life well-traveled. Let a handcrafted geometric rug transform your space. Explore the collection at jpoorliving.com or follow at jpoorliving on Instagram. And now back to the show.

35:35and we're back i'm joined now by the ceo and president of heller john edelman i thought about making you a smoking jacket sir because this is your this is your third time visit on the show you're you're part of the third timers club and uh i'm like the alec baldwin of uh of your podcast well i'm so glad to have you i'm so glad to be here as always it's an honor I really appreciate it. And I know we've got big news to share, some developments going on for you. But before we get there, last time you were on the show, actually you and John McPhee were on the show together talking about some of the many things that you got into after you both finally left DWR.

36:19and one of the things that you got involved with is Heller and you had just been there a few months when last we spoke. So I thought it would be good for us to get a bit of a catch-up and for you to remind us about how you came to acquire Heller and the relationship that you had with Alan Heller over the many, many years that you knew him. Yeah, I mean, Heller is so much a part of my story starting in 2010, January 4th of 2010, when we took over Design Within Reach. The New York Times had come out to Connecticut and taken a picture. And I thought there was going to be this amazing, heroic article coming out, you know, Edelman McPhee coming to save Design Within Reach.

37:07And it was going to be heroic. And the article comes out and the title of the article is, Is There a Solution Within Reach? and instead of this like you know gorgeous picture of me which i was hoping for it was a picture of alan heller holding his bellini chair over his head looking for the logo because designer each had knocked him off right so i inherited this lawsuit where he was suing everybody he sued all the executives he sued the buyers and it was terrible and you know now as you well know i'm the i'm the current president of be regional america as i've stated my whole career on fighting for authenticity.

37:43So I knew it was the worst thing in the whole world. So that was January 4th. We were commuting to San Francisco. We finally met with Alan in February in New York. John and I went to his office on 5th and we apologized. And we said, Alan, you know, we're sorry for our predecessors. We believe in authenticity. We took all of the knockoffs out of the stores, off the website even, and made friends with Alan and built a business and became quickly his biggest customer. And during that time, during those 10 years at DWR, I just was fixated on the concept of Heller and how he made product. And when we sold Design Within Reason, when we did leave, I knew I had to buy Heller.

38:26And Alan tortured me. He literally just tortured me. He'd get me right to the brink and they'd go, no, no, no. By the way, I'm getting buried with all the molds. And unfortunately, after COVID, Alan got sick and passed away. And I went to his widow, and we negotiated, we purchased the company, and she told me post-acquisition that we were the only people that were allowed to buy the company, per Alan. So for all the hard time he had given you, and I remember he used to say, buy it from my widow, and then, right? Exactly. Buy it from the widow. We did. But no, so it was emotional. Why Heller? You know, the past, you know, decades I've devoted my life to authenticity and to modern design.

39:07And I got to decide after DWR, like, what did I want to do with my life? You know, I did a few interesting ventures. I'm involved with Krypton. I'm involved with Chilowich, companies that I love. But I don't run those companies. And I know I didn't want to go back into retail. I love design. I love designers. I love industrial designers. I love the interior design trade. And since I love design, Heller is pure design. So the way the development process works, you have a brief, you give it to a designer. First, they translate to brief. They create something on the computer. We like this. We don't like that.

39:44And then we print it. And because of our manufacturing technique, it molded. The print is what you're going to get. So then you refine the small piece. Then you print it full size. You sit in it. You touch it. You rub it. You see if it's comfortable. You do sit tests. You watch a movie. You sand it. You scan it. You print it again. So by the time you go to mold, you're done. And then it's the same every single time. When you're done, you don't have to worry that the cushions on a sofa don't meet in the middle or the leather has wrinkles from the neck or the fabric's a different dye lot. You can make the same thing over and over and over.

40:19And if you make a great design forever, if you look at the collections that we inherited, Bellini, Gary, Vignelli, like he didn't do much with it. But oh, my goodness, the chances of getting designs like that, creating iconic museum quality modern design are few and far between. So that was the base we had to build on. Right. We had to fix everything. We had to figure out our factory structure. He didn't have any client lists or data or anything, no e-com. Making a new piece of Heller is really expensive, right? Because the molds are very, very time-consuming and costly to produce. So to make a decision to go forward with the design is a big deal.

40:59And he would get almost all the way there and kind of bail. Almost all the way there. And he was interested in new materiality, but he couldn't quite get over the finish line. But he built a brand, an amazing, phenomenal brand. yeah and so we had to fix a lot of stuff um i had to build a little team we had to figure out the logistics you know packaging the whole deal because it was like buying a collection of design with no structure you know my job has been for a long time you know celebrating designers from the past telling their romantic backstories explaining why you know iconic authentic product lasts forever but if you don't constantly look for the next thing that story gets old yeah right then we met on the internet, a company called Jumbo Studios.

41:44I saw this crazy spun aluminum chair that was for$45 ,000 in an offline green tint. An idiot to me is like, that's the best thing I've ever seen. So I reached out to them, you know, literally info at Jumbo Studios. Again, my name is John. Would you like to play together? And they said, yes. And that took two years. And we launched the fortune share the year after. Well, so tell me about that. Help me understand better what takes two years. Tell me about the process. Just to do every aspect perfectly took forever. The drain hole has a flange at the bottom so the water goes straight down versus puddling.

42:22We built the feet into the piece. We made it so it was very easy to take a cap out and fill it with sand. It was just really hard. And actually making this shape comfortable was really hard because we didn't start from scratch. We started with an existing sculptural piece. And if we don't make the furniture comfortable, we shouldn't be in the business because we have freedom to move it around. Jumbo was amazing. It wasn't because of them. It was just a more complicated design. So then we had to find a way to sell it. We had to get back into design within reach. When Alan was sick and management changed, they were out of DWI, the biggest account.

43:00So I had to beg, borrow, and steal to get back in because they weren't interested in the business. The company hadn't launched a product in 20 years. They hadn't been communicated to the buyers, and the product wasn't selling very well. So it wasn't like, oh, gee, Edelman's at Heller. Bring him in. Let's do a huge program. I went bottom-up versus top-down and met this amazing group of young people that are there. And we developed this magic relationship. And our other clients like Two Modern, Lumens, Hive, were also just super supportive of building the brand back on that side. And then on the other side, which is a side I know very well, which is hospitality, corporate interiors, we put together a group of multi-line salespeople across the country to bring our product to architects and designers because that's my favorite world.

43:50And then I hit the road and traveled with those people. So it's been a blast. When you went on the road and traveled with people, what were people saying? What were people's response, their hesitancy, their questions to you? Who's this company? What do you guys do? And then the biggest baggage besides the samples I carry is for plastic furniture. And so, oh, that's great design. Edelman, you have a good reputation, this and that. But we don't put plastic in the library. Isn't plastic bad? How do you feel about working in plastic? So that was, if they didn't like just love the design and bring me in, that was always kind of a roadblock, right?

44:31So I had to figure that out. So sustainability is key. And I was the guy that gave a water bottle and plastic to every single person that walked in design with a reach as a way to say hello. And times change. And we have to evolve with those times. I'm also the idiot that bought a plastic furniture company. So what do you do? You can either double down and work like the government does and say plastic's great and light everybody, or you can fight to change it and make a difference. So I've always preached that the number one form of sustainability is longevity. Great design survives the test of time.

45:10Number two, recyclability. So inherently, because of our ingredients, you can recycle our product anywhere. And I inherited that. So then we found a way to use recycled materials in the mix. And that's hard. It's very hard in the United States. We're not good at it. But we were able to find recycled post-agricultural waste, which were the black plastic strips that separate crops. And since they're all the same color, we're able to make our colors consistently with that product and use up to 25 % in the mix. And that was a big breakthrough. Hmm. Okay. So, so awesome. We're recycled. We have longevity and we're using recycled materials.

45:52And that's where most of the industry sits today. Um, and then if I'm allowed to go there, you know, we met this amazing guy through a former designer than reach a friend of ours named Sarah Zafko. She's, she's amazing. She has her own TV show. She's a go getter. She's, she's a wild personality. And she had an old friend that got involved with a company called worry-free plastics and took it over. And the concept of worry-free is they got inspired by the technology to clean oil spills, where they would throw an enzyme into the oil, it would eat the oil and produce basically fish food. They said, why can't we use that same technology and embed it in plastic?

46:34And they did it. So we worked for 18 months on how to add their product into our mix. And we just announced that we did it. So Heller Furniture is the only regenerative furniture in our industry, in our materiality, I think in any materiality. So what's that mean? If you take our product in a zero oxygenated environment for three to five years, it will literally become food. It will be eaten by microbes, enzymes, et cetera. And then they they poop nutrient-rich soil. It's kind of a miracle. No microplastics, and it leaves the environment better than it found it. So, I mean, out on your deck, nothing is going to be different, right?

47:20So it's not going to start breaking down. You can keep it for 100 years. You can keep it in your pool underwater because in the pool, it's got chlorine that kills those things that'll eat it. But there's a click in the formulation that happens after three to five years with no oxygen. No oxygen is the bottom of a landfill. It's in the ocean. And when that kind of starts the process, it doesn't like dissolve. It turns into food. Because if you dissolved, that would become microplastic. And is the sustainability issue, where does it stand? Are people trying to really push sustainability with ferocity?

47:58Or have people kind of taken their eye off of that as the big issue these days? I don't see anybody taking their eye off the ball. The problem is if it costs more, it doesn't really stand much of a chance. Right. Just the way it is. Okay. We are in a capitalist society. We have budgets. The people building hotels have to make a profit. So the onus is on people like us to find a way to create something sustainable and not make it cost more. So right now, like we're eating that little increase that we have and we're not necessarily passing it on. We're passing on some tariff increases, you know, for our accessories.

48:33Oh, we'll get to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in terms of this increase, we don't believe the customer should have to pay more to do the right thing. And so we have been on this for a while before we made this announcement. And basically now, but really by April 1st, 100 % of our furniture will be made this way, regenerative. But April 1st, our furniture will be sustainable. Okay, so let's talk about this crazy climate that we're in right now for business because, man, I can't remember a time where so many challenges are being thrown at businesses. We can start with tariffs. I mean, you've got things coming in from abroad.

49:17Tell me how it's impacting you, how you're thinking about it. So we make our furniture in the United States and our accessories in China. And we do it because they make them better. We're making them out of 100 % recycled product, which we can't do here. And it's just the right place to be. So we had orders placed. We have clients waiting for them. And they cost 20 % more now. So what do we do? I can't eat a 20 % increase. We had to pass them on. So we're launching a new storage collection. And we had to increase the launch price of 20%. And it's the way it is. And a lot of great furniture comes from those places.

49:56Now we're fighting with Canada. So, you know, we're going to have a problem shipping to Canada. I'm shocked that people don't understand how tariffs work. You know, tariffs are paid by the importer, not by the exporter. So if you buy widgets from a country that's being tariffed, you bring them to the United States, you import them and pay the tariff yourself. And then you pass that cost on to the consumer, which is American people. So things cost more. And so that drives prices up. There's no way around it. But right now, we pay the tariff. And that should be crystal clear. Restoration hardware is bringing a sofa in from China.

50:32Restoration hardware pays the tariff and either take a decrease in their bottom line or pass it on to the consumer. And since they're publicly traded companies, they're not allowed to eat it. They have to pass it on because you can't show quarter over quarter at a decreased gross margin. So we're going to pay more for things, just the way it is. Yeah. It seems like many of the Italian companies are trying to better figure out the American market. We've been talking recently about this Floss B &B Italia roll-up that now maybe looks like they're going to unroll some of that. I don't know what ultimately happens there, but word on the street is B &B Italia is looking to sell off at least the furniture side of that business.

51:15What do you make of all of that? I think most of the Europeans don't understand the American market. and they run the businesses out of italy if they're italian they don't put robust structures in the united states in general they sell the product to the u.s entity and then the at a markup that has to be sold again so the prices are inherently higher the and the world in europe is so different than the states because they call everybody a dealer we have dealers we have retail we have purchasing agents we have this whole completely different structure they don't have these massive design firms in general like we do they're smaller so when they they don't they don't move a centralized headquarters to the states i don't know that there's a huge advantage to combining those companies because they're not getting economies of scale because they're different types of businesses yeah and i think that that the concept of luxury was great but i don't think they thought through the distribution channels and who they're selling to right it's a very narrow audience, an amazing audience, but a narrow audience.

52:21So we'll see. I think it can be done better. It can be done right. I think there are certain companies like a Miller and a Hayworth that have a structure to understand all the markets and invested for more than decades and having great people on the ground in those places. But I think running them out of Europe for the American consumer is a tough one. Do you think this whole roll-up strategy in general ends up working well? So, I mean, as you were saying, Hayworth has a whole host of brands under it, Paltrano Frau and Janice AC and others, and then this big Floss B &B Italia group, and of course Miller Knoll owns several companies that you used to work with.

53:07I mean, what do you think of these companies owning so many brands? Can they run them effectively? It's all about people, Dennis. It's 100 % about the people. Do you put great people in charge of each brand that understand the identity and will bleed to keep that brand true to itself? You know, I've had experiences. You know, I don't want to – I guess I can go to it now because they've changed hands so many times. But Edelman Leather was a great example. My mother and father put their heart and soul in that business. And then John McPhee and I, we worked tirelessly, endlessly, 24-7 to make that the greatest leather company in the world.

53:43And then when they bought it, I don't believe that they put the proper management in place to maintain that aura of the best. If you can speak in superlatives and tell the truth, you've won. How many of these brands can keep their superlatives post-acquisition? I think that's what they have to watch out for. There's a lot of factors. It can be done. you look at reach mall you look at lbmh there's some amazing things have happened i think that the the collaboration between her miller and design within reach and noel is probably going to go down as pretty amazingly successful i think what hayworth has done has been really good i think the only thing that we have to do is look at look at time you know can they can they sustain and will they continually invest in the right people and be true to the brands yeah the worst thing that can happen when you have these acquisitions, they start to meld into one brand and you lose individual identity because they paid for the brand, right?

54:39And brand is everything. I want to ask you something else. One of the other organizations that you have a leadership role in is Be Original Americas. And first, I want to have you tell people exactly what that organization is, what it does, and what you guys are focused on today because we talk a lot about dupes here on the show, John. and your organization. So Be Original Americas is an amazing organization fighting for authenticity in design. We do that through education and through participation from some of the best design companies out there, from Miller & Knoll, Bernhardt, Carl Hansen, Fritz Hansen, Fla, everybody, to Gensler, HLK, Rote.

55:24So on both sides. So you have design firms and manufacturers educating their consumers and their companies about the value of authentic design and the longevity of authentic design. And one of the examples I use is you have a consumer that won't drink out of a plastic water bottle, but it's okay buying a dupe. So the dupe will have no sustainability issues. It's valueless after acquisition and it won't last. So how do you educate people that buying copies is wrong. Every copy purchased slowly kills the future of design. So it took me, I mentioned, almost three years to create the fortune chair.

56:05And if someone copies that, I can't fund the next new item. And we'll slowly just stop having design. That was Alan Heller was obsessed with that. He was obsessed about protecting the future of design. Authenticity and fighting for authenticity protects the future of design. And do you feel like the message is resonating? I mean, we often wonder, where are we in the war on dupes? I mean, are people getting that message? Yes. And the biggest proof of that is on the design side. So we have some of the best design firms in the world as members, and they're the decision makers. So they specify authentic, and they fight for it.

56:46Then it happens. and that's what people want to emulate. So when they see this stuff in the magazine, they see the work of these great firms, they're inspired to do the same. So by having these fantastic firms and design producers be members, they influence their followers and then the story spreads. Well, I hope that it really resonates with the next generation. That's who we need to count on and I hope that they take that really seriously. And as you know, Aaron Bob, when you're a school of interior design, I'm at Parsons. I'm at RISD. We're at the New School, Cranbrook, SCAD, Appalachia State.

57:24We're trying to get the message out there and really work with the students as young as we can get them because they're not really taught that in school. You don't have to teach them about sustainability. They're on it. So how does that relate to authenticity? You don't have to teach them about the value of flea markets and those things that are into design. They're there. That relates to authenticity. You don't have to worry about them getting excited for a new product. They love new products. So if you get them on those concepts, they realize, well, yeah, of course, then you have to support authentic design.

57:58Yeah. Well, I hope more of them will. And listen, I hope this opens a lot of new doors for you. And it sounds like you're going to be able to go back and call on a lot of people that couldn't take the product in the past. So it seems exciting. I'll have to have you back for the fourth time, John, to hear how it's all going. But then I want a special blazer, please. I want a special blazer. I appreciate it. Definitely have that made up for you. I'm so grateful for your time. It's always great to talk with you. This is the best. Thank you so much, sir.

58:34And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a moment to highlight anything going on in the industry that caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Architectural Digest caught my eye. this week, Dennis. I know we occasionally like to sort of poke at AD, and certainly many people in the industry do. I think by virtue of the fact that it's the biggest design publication, you know, it becomes a little bit of a target, and people always like to complain about how it's, you know, it's always sort of like a lesser Kardashian's boathouse on the cover of AD, which is, you know, maybe a fair complaint sometimes.

59:05But the cover this month is really kind of a stunningly interesting cover. It's a project by Adam Sharleff Hyman. It's a very vibey bathroom with sort of swirling blue and white tile. It's sort of like the ocean, and it's definitely unusual, definitely not what you normally see on the cover of AD. Very wild. I'm sure some people won't like it, but I think it's really cool and interesting cover, and I just wanted, you know, when we sort of point out that AD does a project with a celebrity that's maybe not up to snuff, I think it's important to point out when they're taking risks and doing something really cool, and this project by Adam Charlotte Pyman is very cool, so kudos to AD for my little shout-out.

59:41Did you look at it, Dennis? You know, I did, and I I think it's interesting. AD seems to have a redesign going on, a different look and feel. They're certainly experimenting and exploring with some different things. So interesting. I'm glad you shouted that out. What caught your eye this week? What caught my eye is the building excitement for, I believe it's Friday's opening of the big French retailer Printemps, which is opening downtown in the financial district. And it's all been designed by AD100 architectural designer Laura Gonzalez. And the images that I've seen so far look incredibly compelling.

1:00:18And there's all these comparisons to, oh, is this the next Barneys? Is this the next big retail store that everyone from the design community and the fashion community is going to want to come and check out and be a part of? And is it going to set the tone for the next big wave in retail? So it seems like it's a big deal. Yes? Absolutely. And thank you for saying promptant first, because I definitely, my French is not what it used to be. So I appreciate that. I agree. It looks stunning. I mean, when I first saw pictures of it, I was like, oh, is this like some set from The Brutalist or something like that?

1:00:55It looks incredible. It's a beautiful project, and I can't wait to check it out in person. Yeah. No, no, no. It looks like a must-visit location. So we look forward to that, and best of luck to everyone there. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda. I'm Dennis Scully.

1:01:30Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.