The Thursday Show: The Expert wants to build a one-stop shop for the trade. Plus: Tariffs are getting real

25:28That message comes through loud and clear. I don't care what your dividend is. Moving on from that, we're going to talk about slow decor, Fred. This week for his Substack newsletter for Scale, journalist David Mishon urged readers to stop fetishizing speed and finality when it comes to interior design, writing, there's absolutely no more worthy and important sensation in domestic decor than the rejection of an end point. It's never finished, Fred. That's David's message. End point in all caps, I might add. Yeah, this was just a fun letter and sort of exemplifies why, for scale, the Substack newsletter is so fun.

26:08It's like, you go into it, it's about him staying at this modernist house in Palm Springs, but then it turns into a rumination on the nature of time. You know, it's very, very like heavy and philosophical, but also fun. So part of the reason to talk about it is just because it's fun and to recommend it. But I do think it's an interesting point because, you know, in the industry and particularly designers, obviously, you know, the imperative from a client is get in and finish my house before Memorial Day or get in and finish my house before Thanksgiving and the project will be done. And then my house will be exactly as it is forever.

26:39And I like that. And that's a designer's job on some level. But, you know, as we all know, your home evolves slowly over time. And that's a good thing. You add things, you change things, you move things around, maybe much to the consternation of your designer. But like, and I do think like the point that, you know, that your home reaches a state of finality, I think is a little bit of, you know, it's a wrongheaded notion. And I think David kind of rightly and funnily points that out in this piece. Well, and I was thinking about a conversation I had had with a designer recently who talked about the fact that they actually focus on sort of this minimal installation.

27:14Sure, we'll get you a sofa and some chairs and so you can function in this space, but really we want you to make a lot of the decisions after you've lived here for a while, after you've started to get a sense of what this place really feels like, what speaks to you, and then hopefully you're going to go out and start to personalize it so much more through your travel, through your experiences. And that is such a different message than we often see as in the much beloved, although clearly not by him, before and after shots that the industry sort of loves to share. And I love a good before and after, don't get me wrong, but I did take his point.

27:57Well, you know, David's a bit of a provocateur, so he likes to poke the bear a little bit. But look, we all love before and afters. I think it's just there's no other way to experience what someone has done with their home, I think, on some level, unless it's like a, you know, a slow exposure video that lasts like, you know, 10 days or whatever. But I think even designers would agree that, you know, the layering that comes from a client living there from a long period of time is preferable as long as it doesn't just turn into clutter or, you know, a mess. I think even designers would agree with that.

28:27I think it's just tough because, you know, as someone who, you know, recently moved into a new apartment, I would like for the evolution phase to be over because I still have boxes that are unpacked. And so you have to reach, you know, a resting state that's livable and feels comfortable. And I think, you know, just the economic realities of it. I think a lot of people hire designers simply because they don't have time, you know, or really the aptitude to, you know, slowly evolve their home over time. I think this is really maybe more one for the heads and the people who are obsessed with their homes, as most designers are.

28:57I think most designers would agree that their own homes are a constantly shifting laboratory. It's just that people pay them because the people who are paying them can't do that themselves. Well, exactly. And what was particularly fun about David's piece, and I encourage people to read it because I would love to hear from them on some other issues too. Because he wasn't just taking a shot at the before and after images. He was also taking a shot at, wait for it, mid-century modern. That's right. There's nothing sacred, David. He feels like, come on, if ever something were frozen in time, it is mid-century modern, and we've got to move on from nostalgia.

29:34And it sounded like some upcoming letters from David are going to get more into that attack, which I think will make for interesting conversation. But I do think he feels like he's fed up with quite a bit of what he sees in design today. Lots of bears out there in the book. You know, just quickly to plug, I think David's the new print issue for Scales coming out soon. And I think he'll release. There's this design festival in New York, Shelter. We talked about it, I think, a couple of weeks ago or a couple of months ago. That'll be part of Design Week. And I think David's going to be there. So if you're intrigued and you want to fight him on any of these points, by all means, head over to Shelter because he'll be there.

30:15Yeah. And I'd love to hear from designers about their take after they read the piece and weigh in on some of these issues. because there is a lot to discuss in there. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including a roundup of new hires across the industry and Sean Lowe's advice on dealing with budget fatigue. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

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31:54And we're back. I'm joined now by the founder and executive chairman of The Expert, Leo Siegel. Leo, welcome back. Hey, thank you for having me again. Great to have you back. And the expert has a newly appointed CEO, Leanne Blake. Leanne, welcome. Thanks. It's so good to be here. Well, it's great to have you. And I'm so excited to hear all the things that brought you to the expert. But Leo, let's catch listeners up a little bit before we dive into the conversation. So reminding people about the high-end video consultation business that you brilliantly launched during COVID that everybody said, wish I had done that, that moment.

32:39And then a couple of years back, you and Jake came on to tell us about the evolution a little bit, the e-commerce business that was growing inside of the expert. Tell us where in your mind things are at the moment. Yeah, it's crazy how many twists and turns there have been. It feels like just yesterday that we were launching and making friends with you and Fred during COVID. I do feel like one of the reasons why we're back on the pod is that we've kind of finally figured out exactly what our product market fit is. Like you mentioned, obviously, our DNA is the high-end video consultations, and that is still just as important to us today.

33:25Two years ago, we did launch our econ marketplace. We have about 200 vendors now. I think we're about 50 when we launched. So I've come a long way on that front. But I think the biggest transformation since we launched the e-commerce platform a couple of years ago is a shift in focus. I think we built it with the end customer in mind. But I think over time, and we can go into this more, it kind of organically unveiled itself that the real customer of our e-commerce platform and the customer segment that we are investing the most in growing is really the design trade. So it's pretty full circle.

34:10We started with our top expert roster and fast forward to today, and it's still the interior designer front and center, just in a slightly different iteration. Well, and when did you first start to realize that, Leo? Because we've had this conversation that, oh my goodness, of course, Perhaps we should have realized that, of course, these designers were going to love everything that you were putting together and the level of product that you were bringing on the site. But when did that first start to show up and how did it make you rethink some of what you were doing? It wasn't really an overnight realization.

34:44I think it was pretty gradual throughout that first year of launching the marketplace. space. Obviously, when you're a founder and you're launching a new product, you're stalking the backend admin and seeing every single order that comes through. And we're just like, oh, this one looks like a design firm. Oh, that one looks like a design firm. How interesting. We don't even have a trade program. We're not even currently giving them a discount. Why are they doing this? And then I think just over the months, we just pieced together that, oh, wow, the trade had cottoned onto our platform as just a shortcut to sourcing and procuring.

35:24And so it took months and months for us to actually truly grab the bull by both horns and decide to actually build out a trade program and build out a product set that would work for the trade. But in addition to our investors who have a seat around the table, I know Nicole, our lead investor from Forerunner, has actually been on the podcast with you. They were pretty instrumental in helping us realize, wow, this is an amazing customer segment. These customers, even though you have not built any features specifically for them at the time, this is back in 2023, their repeat rate is so much higher.

36:02Their average order value is so much higher that there must be something here. But once we realized there was no getting that toothpaste back in the tube, we were dead set on building for the trade. And then fast forward to 2024, we'd made our first trade specific hire. We actually, sorry to First Ibs, we poached Olivia Black from First Ibs, who was kind of very involved with running and launching their trade program to become our VP of sales. And she really did architect a trade program that we're really proud of and started to actually roll out an actual trade program that we've been iterating on ever since.

36:46And that is really when I always say we've really found our product market fit in 2024 when we rolled out, we call it Trade 2.0, which was an actual trade account and dashboard and feature set specifically built for the trade. And that is when we saw our numbers really kind of take off. Well, you know, the you know, the ever skeptical design community, Leo, when you first made the announcement that you were launching e-commerce, many in the design community thought, oh, there goes the business. Sure. Open it up to the consumer, wreck it, ruin it, bring it down. And then it felt like it was just a beat or two before it was clear that it was actually a lot of the trade was doing a lot of the a lot of the buying.

37:30And I want to get into that more and interesting that you mentioned Nicole from Forerunner because I'm curious how she feels about it beyond just, gee, these designers aren't the great customers, but also knowing how eager Forerunner is for this business to grow into a great big thing. I'm curious about that. Which brings us to you, Leanne. And yes, so before we even talk, Leanne, about the many things that you're going to do to grow this company, I'm curious what you knew of the expert, how this first got on your radar. How did all of this come about? I actually, I'm embarrassed to admit that I had not heard of the expert, but as soon as I had - This is a safe zone, Leanne.

38:13Nothing's embarrassing. I'm not cool is really what that means, if we're being honest. But as soon as I connected with Leo and I started telling friends about the opportunity, 90 % of the people said, oh, I love the expert. I follow an expert on Instagram. And so they were very excited about me. And my first order of business, I actually booked before I spoke with Leo. I booked a consultation. So I said, I want to really try this product and love that experience. So I became a quick convert. My ignorance was gone quickly. well so and did you actually bring a project did you have some some space that you wanted help with to to an expert yeah i think i was telling you i wanted um some help with my office that i'm sitting in right now right and i've now bought a a desk a rug both recommended by the expert and um i have seven samples of potential roman shade fabrics hanging from my window Excellent.

39:15Okay. But the funny thing is that you can get so much done in an hour that that took, I don't know, seven minutes. And then I started walking her around my house and my poor husband came home and I said, we need to move out. We're getting our entire house redesigned. I'm on with our new designer. And they tell us - The floor's too red. The kitchen's a nightmare. So we'll get there eventually. That's great. So tell us what you were doing at the time and a little bit about your background and history. Yeah. I was a chief growth officer at BabyList, which is a platform for growing families. And I had been there for about five years, helped grow it from less than$100 million in revenue to over$500.

40:01So really seeing kind of the scary word of scale there. but the interesting thing is we um and I think a lot of what Leo just alluded to is we did it all by focusing um on the user and like really really understanding their needs so it was not it was not a scale at all cost company we're actually profitable and really thoughtful in our scale and all of that and we were always building um tools and offerings for I think a completely different consumer. I don't know if you can say that pregnant women and grandmas and aunts are at all related to interior design firms, but it was really about kind of how do we serve those users' needs and, you know, thinking about how we can bring that to the expert already.

40:46In the design world, one of the challenges that companies run into with scaling is this relatively small number of what we assume is the total number of designers in the US. And there's lots of disagreement about what that number is. For starters, some people think it's 50 ,000. Some people think it's 90 ,000. But nobody thinks it's 2 million. And so that's one of the challenges that I'm curious about how you were thinking about it and what was appealing to you when you were thinking about what you could do for the expert? Yeah, I think maybe I shouldn't say this. I never thought about scaling the company in this like, oh, I'm joining the expert as CEO to make this unicorn or whatever they see in the VC world.

41:38I really thought about what are the next couple of years look like, right? And so I thought really pragmatically about how many hundreds of firms are using the platform now. Oh, that's a pretty good amount. And how much are they spending? Well, that AOV is pretty high. Like these are, this is a high end luxury marketplace. And these are emerging brands with amazing offerings. And if you help these firms spend a little bit more, discover some new products on the site and shop us a couple more times, like that's actually a great business. My goal would be for the first thing that a lot of employees at these firms do every single day is go to the expert.

42:21Because when they type in the expert.com, they see, wow, that's a brand I've never heard of. Or, wow, look at that new couch from the expert collection. Or let me make sure that my orders are on time. Or let me wish list or favorite a few more things. And if you just super serve those people, like, great, let's do that. And then we can talk about scale from there. Going back to the experience, Leanne, that you had with the designer that you did the consultation with, tell me what then attracted you to this business and the design community in general and what you needed to hear from Leo to make you feel good about really coming over and wanting to make a change.

43:06because it's always a big step, leaving something that it sounds like you've had a great deal of success with and at the baby list, and it sounds like you grew it quite a bit. So what made you want to come and join the expert? The number one thing was the team. I'm on, this is my first day of my fourth week today. As I've gotten to know the team, they are passionate, intelligent, hardworking, incredibly kind, and they're industry experts. Like I have so much to learn, And we have people who've worked at design firms. We have a designer as a co-founder. Like this is like they know what they're talking about.

43:42So that was number one. And that continues to ring true. The second is I'm just really passionate about helping like other entrepreneurs or people grow their business. Prior in my career, I helped at ShopStyle grow an influencer platform. And there it was really helping mostly female solopreneurs grow their businesses and think about, a lot of them are kind of fashion bloggers, how to enable them to do what they do best, which is style themselves, pick out great products, create social content, etc. And we built a back end of tools and technology and monetization that just made their job easier.

44:26And so I saw that similarity with the expert where I said, wow, there's these 10 ,000, 20 ,000, 30 ,000 design firms, mostly small businesses, creatives who do some things amazingly well and have some things that they don't want to spend their time on or that inefficient. And how can I help work with the team to build tools that just make their lives easier? And that's what got me really excited. I hope we are. And I think we can do more of that. Well, right. Exactly. That's the hope. We hope we make their lives easier. And honestly, I mean, that's part of the challenge because so many designers have existing relationships with a lot of the trade brands.

45:14and so the question becomes how do you lure them to the expert? Yeah, I think that you hit on a really good point and it's a big focus of ours. I think some designers who aren't necessarily educated on our offering assume that we're kind of trying to replace how design firms place orders with large established brands, most of whom they already have a relationship with and shop from. But in fact, our main focus from a merchandising and assortment perspective is we're really focused on growing our assortment of new emerging brands, small makers, some of our biggest successes bringing international brands into the fold that most of our trade firms would not even be able to logistically shop from.

46:12So we're really like our North Star is to be a huge value add addition to these firms, especially from a from a sourcing and procurement process perspective, rather than just trying to like, take business that that that they're already doing elsewhere. I hear it's a great time to be bringing international brands into the United States. So, I mean, perfect timing on that, it seems. But all joking aside to that point, how are you managing that in the short term? And how are you thinking about that? Assuming that every day we don't know what the policy is, how do you manage it? Fortunately, we don't really have any brands that are made in China at the moment.

47:01And I know China is the biggest pain point from a supply chain perspective for companies at the moment. Our most popular line is our own expert collection. And thank God that is all made here in LA. So we have no kind of tariff complications on that front. In terms of our international brands, and I would say we have most success with European brands and Australian, it's kind of a a situation where everyone's like, let's wait and see. If it's just 10%, then that's not necessarily going to be such an issue. But I do thank God every day that we don't have a Chinese supply chain. And I feel truly awful for those that do.

47:48There is nothing wrong with making anything in China. I was in fashion before, and some of our best quality product was made in China. And I just think this is awful. But fortunately, it's not affecting us too badly. No, no, it's a challenging time to be sure. Leo, to the point that you were just making, though, about updating us and me on what the showrooms side of the business really is, My recollection when it was first being launched was there were many designers who were experts on the site who were putting together collections, things that they loved, fabrics that they were putting on vintage pieces that they had purchased.

48:36It seems like it's evolved quite a bit over time. So tell me where it is now and sort of what are the big drivers for the business now? Those showrooms are still a huge driver and we're still just as if not more focused on scaling. I use the dreaded S word, scaling. Scaling in terms of getting to a point where all of our experts, around 250 of them, can have their own showroom. And we've integrated their showrooms into, and this is a relatively recent product development, they've now integrated their showrooms into their consultation profiles. so that when you're booking a consultation, you can also see their product selections from our marketplace.

49:19And obviously, they get a commission on that. That's still a key driver of our business. The only difference is we initially thought that those would mainly be for end consumers. Whereas now, it's so interesting because the long tail of the trade, whether we can argue over whether it's tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, I think what became clear to us is so many of our trade members do look up to and draw inspiration from our experts. So yeah, to answer your question, showrooms are still a huge driver. Another driver I would say is we have a really hands-on, incredible sales team. These are all folks who have worked at showrooms.

50:00They come from within the industry. They know the pain points that interior designers are dealing with, and they are laser focused on saving, and leanne spoke to it saving designers time i would say the biggest pain point if we had to sum it up in like a couple of words for interior designers is they are time poor and one kind of you know go-to motto that we have is internally when we're talking about how to really save designers time we always talk about how instead of um a design firm needing to chase 10 quotes from 10 reps with 10 different trade applications and 10 tax forms and then managing 10 invoices and 10 orders across 10 platforms, you get one cart, one rep, one platform.

50:51The time saving really adds up. And that's not even to mention saving your inbox from 10 additional marketing emails and 10 additional trade reps following up for meetings. We always come back to that. We're just really trying to simplify the process. And to build on that, what we're finding, what I think is really interesting is the advocate for us is often the 25-year-old associate or coordinator who's like, hey, I spent all my time doing those 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, whatever Leo just said. I could be so much more helpful with client communications or something else if I could use the expert. And just having that groundswell of support from the doers every day, I think, is very telling of what our offering actually is.

51:38Well, and Leo, you mentioned Jake Arnold earlier. And in the beginning, Jake was very front and center with the expert. And no doubt, Jake bringing a lot of people on board gave a lot of designers. Many of them told me, but Jake Arnold reached out to me and I was so flattered that I said, of course, I'll join your whatever this startup is you're launching. And so it seemed like Jake played a huge role in being this wonderful brand ambassador and making a lot of people feel good about this whole operation. What role do you have Jake playing today? How do you pimp him out for the business in ways that are comfortable for him?

52:24And knowing that he doesn't have a lot of time himself. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, fortunately, we've grown a lot since then. So I do feel like whereas we used to use Jake a little bit more like a crutch in the early days, we've grown enough that I feel like the expert brand is probably known even more widely at this stage than Jake himself. Wow. So that's nice. The expert's now more famous than Jake Arnold. Listen to you. Okay. Well, I'm not sure he would agree with that. But either way, I mean, yes, as you say, we still leverage Jake as our co-founder in many ways. He's hosting a panel for Design LA, Apparatus' studio, all those kinds of things.

53:10But first and foremost, I mean, Jake is my best friend in the world. So I speak to him every single day. He's still very intimately involved, just a little bit more behind the scenes nowadays, because like you say, he is time poor. So we're only going to trot him out if we really need to or for something really special. And other than that, it's a lot of behind the scenes. He's very involved with ideating. His firm are very active trade members. So given that he is such an active trade member himself, we're always getting amazing feedback from his team. They're always the first guinea pig for any new feature that we have or any new brand that we're rolling out.

53:52So that's really nice as well to have his firm and everyone at his firm shopping on the site. No, no, no. And that makes a lot of sense, obviously. And as you say, the expert can stand on its own a lot more than it could have a few years ago. And interestingly, and Leo, you and I have talked about this a lot in the past, the weight, the gravitas of all of the experts that you have on the expert platform and many of the designers that I speak to are finding it quite useful to be regularly scheduling consultations. And it's a meaningful revenue stream for a lot of designers. And so that has grown into part of the association that I think a lot of people make with the expert is all of these wonderful designers that are on the platform and the goodwill that people feel towards them.

54:46has that been a key component in your mind of what has helped the e-com side of the business to grow? And do you feel that that's a tremendous advantage that you've had that some of these other e-commerce businesses that just haven't worked out for a host of reasons, some of which I touched on earlier? Do you want to be our publicist because you're delivering the message better than I ever could. I feel I could be. I feel I could be. Well, you put it, you put it exactly right. I think that our special source really is our incredible roster of talent. Leanne spoke to it. We are not a company of scale at all costs.

55:26We want to grow, of course, but we always want to grow through the lens of what is best for the design community at large. But if you distill it, what is best for our expert community? Many of our expert community are, if not most, are active trade members. So I think protecting that roster, the integrity of the roster, is everything to us. And I think that, yes, of course, the brand reputation that we have built by having this caliber of talent is what has enabled us to gain the trust of so many in the trade. And so we never want to do anything to betray that trust or to, you know, to move away from those roots.

56:10And that is why we are as rigorous as ever in our criteria to become an expert. Oh, look at you walking right into my next question for you. Yes, go ahead. Because you've only got, what do you have, 250 people on there? And there's tens of thousands of designers. And I understand the lengthy waiting lists and a lot of designers, Leo, seem to be taking it quite personally that they haven't been accepted as an expert on the expert, despite being very well known in the industry. So go ahead, break people's hearts and tell us what the criteria is to get on this darn site of yours. What's a designer got to do?

56:50So first and foremost, we do not see ourselves or claim to be the arbiter of who is a worthy or incredibly talented trade firm. And we know that there are so, so, so many firms out there that are more than qualified and skilled enough and talented enough and experienced enough to be part of the roster. The problem is, if we want to continue to deliver on our level of service, not just to clients, but to the experts that we serve, we have to keep it incredibly curated. We're not trying to say you're good enough or you're not good enough. So much of our criteria is like, does this fill a gap in our roster?

57:32We do, I will say, our membership, even though we're adding very few new designers, just because we do want to keep it curated and we want to keep our level of service at its best. Our membership team are always on the lookout for new rising talent, whether it's keeping an eye on Architectural Digest or various industry lists. we do still put the feelers out and we still do approach various designers that we feel are particularly special and that we would feel make a great addition to our roster we do as you spoke to have thousands of designers that have reached out to us that have asked to be on the platform that unfortunately even though we would love to we cannot serve everyone and so when we're reviewing inbound interest, we did make the business decision that it makes the most sense, given that it is a pool of thousands for a couple of spots a month.

58:29It makes the most sense for us to focus on our highly active trade members. We feel that there is such immense talent in that group to give priority consideration to those who are supporting our business. We're still a small business let's be real it means a lot to us and so we would love to give them priority consideration but it is absolutely not a um strict criteria for being invited onto the platform at all i know that there's been kind of um rumblings that maybe we're like pay to play and that it's like quid oh yeah i've heard them well i i need to push back on that a little bit because i think that That implies that you can spend a certain amount to be on the platform.

59:17We simply would never do that. I mean, that would be a surefire way to just dilute the quality of talent on our platform. And I can tell you that even though we may give priority consideration to those who are high spenders on the site, when looking at our rigorous criteria, if that does not apply to your firm, you can spend$5 million on the site. tomorrow and you're not just getting a spot on the platform. Because again, we're in this for the long term. We prioritize longevity over quick growth. And the moment that we are no longer the expert, I think that is where you can go really wrong. And that's where maybe other companies have gone wrong.

59:59When you compromise what makes you special in order to chase the short-term dollars, you're not going to be around in 10 years. And we want to be around in 10 years. We want to be around in 20 years. Yeah. I mean, especially since Leanne left her other job, right? And she got, I mean, you know, she's taking a big leap here. Of course you want to be around. But to put a bow on the waiting list and the whole pay-to-play issue to your point, tell me, so with only bringing on one new expert a month. One to three. One to three. So to your point, what does that tell us about how you think about that side of the business and what it represents?

1:00:46Yeah, I think that side of the business really is, it's our brand, really. It's experts drive the whole flywheel. I think that experts are the top of the funnel, essentially. They are promoting their consultations. They're bringing traffic to their page, to our site in general. They're introducing a lot of folks who are not familiar with our brand to our brand. In a way, there are our spokespeople, not necessarily for our e-commerce offering, but just for our brand in general. We've started some really exciting initiatives with our experts. For example, we have a new monthly office hours with one of our top experts that our trade program have access to.

1:01:30Last month was Molly Kidd, formerly of Light and Dwell, who did an incredible session on social media 101 and how to build your social media following. This month, we have Zoe Feldman giving a masterclass on AI, how to use AI to improve your business operations. You cannot separate experts from our business. It's just it's truly our lifeblood. Leanne, a lot of experience with AI. AI, can you imagine a lot of areas where AI could be helpful in your new role with growing the expert? Maybe you'll hear about this at an upcoming expert office hours if you're a trade member. How can I actually use AI to grow my business?

1:02:12And they know about it at a high level, like chat GPT sounds interesting, but what is the actual pragmatic way to integrate that? And so that's what we're trying to help designers learn about. maybe like sneak peek, it's not replacing them, right? Like they're, we're saying you should, we want to help you use AI to free up your time. So can we build tools for them that's going to help them make invoices more quickly or streamline procurement or get updated pricing? Or there's just so many really tactical, small ways that we think we can, again, take work off their plate, make them less time poor so that they can do the creative work.

1:02:55So we're buzzing on some ideas. We're talking to designers about the work that they want to do. And we're just going to build some, I think, kind of cool things to help make their lives easier. That does not involve designing with AI. Yeah, exactly. Like that's, that's their expertise. That's their, that's what they're so good at and like that's their creative magic um and so let them do more of that and we'll do kind of the the grunt admin admin work for them from the experience that you have had and when you think about what you've learned that you imagine being able to bring to this company what makes you the most excited when you think blue sky, what you could do with a company like this?

1:03:46I want us to be the destination for everyone at an interior design firm and vendors that they check every single day. So I think that's the dream. Now I want to talk about Vegas. So I've got a story about if you're building a rewards program. for a hotel, a casino in Vegas. And this is a real story. You would think about what people want. And like, do you want to check in early? You want upgrades to room? You want some free rooms? And we've got all that. And we're getting all that. And then there was this hotel that was trying to figure out what people really wanted. And so they were asking their most loyal customers, what's the biggest pain point you have?

1:04:30Do you know what it was? Leo, do you have a guess? What's the hardest thing about your life when you're a high roller in Vegas? I want to win more often because I'm always losing. Okay, maybe. Dennis? Well, so for me, when I'm there, I mean, there are no windows. There's no light. I have no idea what time it is, which is what they want, right? And so you're a little thrown off and they never want you to know sort of where you are and what you're doing. Okay, so that's close. What these high rollers wanted was a reserved chair by the pool because they were up all night. some of them having a good time and by the time they got to the pool there were no chairs there were no cabanas right so they said oh that's what we're going to do if you're the highest tier loyalty member we're going to reserve seats by the pool and that's the coolest offering because like you save them time it's prestigious you're in this like great little section you're building this community around the high rollers like and it costs the casinos no money i don't know what the expert seat by the pool is.

1:05:34I don't know what it is that these design firms want, this pain point that they have. I don't know if it's an AI tool. I don't know if it's dinners. I don't know if it's events. But there's something that this industry needs that's just going to make them happier. And we're committed to figuring it out. And we got to figure it out. And I don't know what it is. Maybe you know, Dennis, and you can tell Leo and I after this call. But I think there's something really special we can bring to these firms that make them a little bit happier and maybe a little more money. That's my dream is to bring them that and then help grow the expert along with them.

1:06:08Yeah, I don't know. I'll be so curious to see what comes of that. Leanne, congratulations on the new job. Can't wait to see all you do. And Leo, I know this is a huge weight off your mind that Leanne is finally here. So congrats on that. And I'm excited to see all that's coming next for the experts. So thanks for being here. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you so much for having us.

1:06:36And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here. But before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? The New Yorker caught my eye and my ire because the illustrious magazine, one of probably my favorite magazine, to be honest, published this like really fun, feature on like the living rooms of famous New Yorkers. And I got to say, just leave, you've got your great essays, your wonderful deep dives into the wide world. Leave us our beautiful pictures of people's living rooms. But it was a really fun feature of the New Yorker looking at like, you know, notable New Yorkers.

1:07:13The very first one was Anna Delvey, famous con artist and what her living room looks like. And she had a Jonathan Adler sofa, which I thought was funny. I was DMing with Jonathan Adler about that and he got a kick out of it as well. so that was just a fun article also in media news Dan Rubenstein fellow podcaster who talks to a lot of people in the design world and just general creatives he has a podcast called The Grand Tourist and now he has a print magazine the Grand Tourist print edition I think is debuting maybe even today unfortunately I'm not able to go to the party but I wanted to shout it out because Dan has built a really cool media business talking to notables as we do here and it's cool that he's getting into a new medium.

1:07:54Dennis, what caught your eye this week? A couple of things that I wanted to make people aware of. One was the upcoming sale at Chelsea Textiles, which is always a fun event. It's going to be online starting on May 20th. And Chelsea Textiles is just about to open their brand new showroom, actually just moving floors in the building that they're in. But their sale always draws many designers, and I'm always hoping to score a fun Kit Kemp design throw pillow myself. But the other thing that caught my eye was there's a company that's been around for about 50 years. It's a rug and stair runner company that is much beloved called Woodard Weave.

1:08:38And interestingly, they were just about to close operations, they had announced, when a white knight showed up and it turned out to be none other than David Netto. So David Netto is going to be acquiring that operation and perhaps we'll talk with David Netto in the future and hear more about his plans there. But I was happy to see that company saved at the 11th hour. Writer, designer, now entrepreneur. I love it. Yes, indeed. So I'm glad to see him have his hand in this operation. And as I say, I hope that we'll get a chance to talk to him about it in the future. All right, that's all the time we have today.

1:09:14Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castagneda. I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.