The Thursday Show: The Supreme Court overturns Trump's tariffs. Plus: John Edelman on his new mission at Haworth

25:20But I mean, I gather they're all over that at KBiz, right? Definitely. Yeah. It seems like induction has been a big topic the last few years. So yeah, that was all over the show. Interesting. And it looked like AI made an appearance at the show quite a bit as well. Yeah, definitely. AI was a big topic, especially at some of the different appliance brands. So for example, GE showcased this AI powered cook cam in its wall oven. And it can actually recognize the type of food that's being cooked and give you suggestions for temperature and timing, different settings you can try out. some of the brands different models also have voice activation features now so you can use like voice prompts to turn your oven on um so that was really cool caroline i'm curious just to jump in here you know we talk all the time on this show about how like designers have a very on again off again relationship with technology in general and don't like smart home tech and like want the dumb home do they want i mean what's that like a kbiz like do the designer the kitchen designers really like this stuff is there kind of like a warmer relationship with technology at kbiz it's hard to tell it seems like um i was talking to our editor-in-chief caitlin peterson about this just a few minutes ago and she was saying how a few years ago maybe like five or six years ago some of these ai or like newer tech features just didn't seem as relevant to how people use their kitchens but today and like this year it seems like brands are kind of taking a cue from designers and users and doing a better job of integrating these features into their appliances in a way that actually helps with like day-to-day use and daily routine so yeah it seems like it's becoming more integrated in the actual like practical applications i definitely remember going to like kips bay a few like maybe 10 years ago and there was a lot of like we put a screen on it.

27:20You see this? There's a screen on it now. And I feel like maybe it's getting better now. I don't know. But what do you think about all this stuff? Do you have AI in your toaster or what's your LLM situation in the kitchen? I mean, I was bombarded by so much negativity about AI when we asked designers whether they're focusing on making themselves more findable on AI. So I was really wondering, Caroline, what the mood was around AI and technology there. Because as I say, I was bombarded by a lot of negativity from designers about our breaking technology. Yeah, it's hard to tell. I'm not sure how much designers are embracing it, but I guess we'll see.

28:04Maybe some of these newer innovations will help. Well, if it can give you better guidance on how to make that meal better, maybe that will be the the right temperature to cook it at and everything. I think maybe that might win some people over. We'll see. So you mentioned that the show is going to be moving to Vegas. And I'm wondering sort of the National Kitchen and Bath Association, where does this sort of fit into everything that's going on for them? Yeah. So I spoke to Bill Darcy while I was at the show. He's the president and CEO of the NKBA. And he talked a little bit about how over the last few years, the organization is really trying to branch out beyond sort of the kitchen and bath specialty designers and reach more of those like whole home high point designers too.

28:54And so they've done that through like some pop-ups at high point market. And then also just like kind of shifting their programming to appeal to some of those whole home designers a little bit more. So there were tons of like panels and programming with designers hosted by like different shelter magazine editors. They also brought back this design council concept that they introduced two years ago, where the NKBA picked this group of designers to sort of serve as ambassadors between the world of KBiz and High Point and the broader design community. And it seems like it was really successful. They brought it back this year with a new council.

29:38It was Bobby Burke, Mandy Chang, Nathan Orsman. So yeah, they're kind of doing a lot to make this another top destination for designers in addition to High Point. Interesting. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing more of what they do at High Point and more of the designer integration, as you say. And I feel like we should be talking about Kitchen and Bath more. So now that you've set it up for us, perhaps we will get into it more. And I know you're going to be covering it more in the future as well, Caroline. So I look forward to that. Yeah, definitely. So, Caroline, we're going to move on to talk about Taylor Swift.

30:16And we're hoping that you will stay with us because Fred and I really might need some guidance in this area. So we'd appreciate your youthful insights here. Okay? Definitely. I got you. Okay, thank you. Because as I say, next up, the pop star has bad blood with a New York-based textile company, Cathay Home. Swift made an appeal to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office earlier this month, looking to block the brand from securing the brand name Swift Home, which Fred and I are reading a great deal into what that means. But what do you think, Fred? Yes, that bad blood pun brought to you by a quick Google before we started the show here.

31:00Yeah, this has just been kind of a fun little trademark dispute that popped up in recent months. So this company, Cathay Home, probably not a company our listeners know too well, but they make betting. And they had this sub brand that they wanted to call Swift Home. And I think it was actually kind of OK. But then the logo sort of became cursive and it looks sort of like Taylor Swift's signature a little bit. And then it became, you know, a sort of dispute because she has trademarked her signature. And so she filed a complaint about it. And eventually Cathay Home, I think, wisely back down from someone you do not want to get on the wrong side of.

31:37Lest you be the subject of a scathing ballad. But Cathay Home back down. And it was just it's an interesting little situation because it got me looking at, well, what has Taylor Swift actually registered in terms of trademarks? It's like over 300, like all those phrases like this sick beat is a trademark. And there's all these like it's it's it's kind of a kind of a wild thing. I'm assuming, Dennis, you did not do the same trademark database journey that I did. But what do you make of all this? Well, I did see I mean, to your point, I did see that she has quite an array of trademarks. And I and I get it.

32:11I mean, what was interesting was I didn't see that she had any big website names or anything that that she was holding on to. But I think many people were reading into the fact that she she didn't want them to have swift home to suggest that maybe just maybe one day that would be a foray that she wants to make on her own. Perhaps once she gets married and it settles down, that maybe a nice bedding collection would be would be welcome. And who knows what else in the in the home space? Yeah, I mean, I think two things here. I mean, I definitely think the trademark and let's start with the trademark angle before we talk about the Taylor Swift.

32:48That's much more fun. It is really interesting how like intellectual property. We talk so much about dupes and knockoffs. And I feel like every day we hear about a new knockoff. And you really start to see how like at the end of the day, oftentimes it's just like who has the money and the leverage to either sue or threaten to sue. Because I think, you know, the idea that Swift home is a protectable trademark. I mean, I kind of get it because she's Taylor Swift, but at the end of the day, like it's the word Swift, you know, and I think that on some level, the reason why they back down is because she's Taylor Swift.

33:19It sort of shows you how the IP world is not always set up to protect the little guy. Like I think about, you know, Coco and Dash, that company in Dallas who had the blue and white checked sofa and Hastings, the betting company sued them because somehow somebody gave them the trademark to blue and white checks. And that, you know, it just shows you how crazy it all is. But yeah, as you mentioned, Dennis, I think Taylor Swift is definitely a like a home influencer in the making. I don't know. Caroline is somebody who's a little more in the demographic. What do you think about that? Yeah, I think that could definitely happen.

33:51Like Taylor Swift has had tons of eras and different styles and aesthetics. So there's a lot to pick from a lot. She could translate to the home. Would you buy Taylor Swift betting or what's let's do a little market research here? I don't know about that I would have to see it first all right maybe we'll get a free sample well and I feel she's very entrepreneurial so I mean it really wouldn't surprise me at all and I think she's clearly so bankable so I I would be very surprised if if major retailers across the land aren't already talking to her about all sorts of things but it will be it will be interesting to see I mean your point about the the trademarks is interesting, Fred.

34:33I saw that Warby Parker just dropped a scully frame, and I was a little upset that I hadn't been consulted about that. So perhaps I need to talk to my attorneys on that and see if there's anything I can do there. I think we need to trademark, no, no, I agree. Yeah, I don't think we're going to be winning any trademark disputes, but maybe one for the future. Yeah, we'll keep an eye on that. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including March's Can't Miss design events and a slew of new initiatives from Salone. But first, a quick break.

35:16This winter, Lalloy debuted beautiful new rug and pillow collections that are grounded in rich colors, natural materials, and innovative craft. Their expansive breadth of product includes new must-see collaborations with designers Jeremiah Brent and Leanne Ford. See it all at laloyrugs.com. That's L-O-L-O-I rugs.com. And follow at Laloirugs on Instagram and TikTok for the latest news and collaborations from Laloirugs. Laloirugs. At the Huntington in California, unfinished artwork by William Morris, J.H. Durrell, and other original creatives behind Morris & Co. have been uncovered. Now these historic sketches, left incomplete for more than a century, have been carefully finished by the Morris & Co.

36:08Design Studio and transformed into an extraordinary new body of work. It's a brand new chapter in a legacy that spans more than 160 years. Discover the brand new wallpaper and fabric designs within the collection on wmorrisandco.com. And now, back to the show.

36:33and we're back i'm joined now by john edelman the newly appointed president north and south america for hayworth lifestyle john welcome back to the show thank you i think last time you promised me a special blazer i wouldn't mind collecting well i i honestly can't believe we're having this conversation, John. I can't believe that you've taken what appears to be an enormous role. And I'm excited for you, as you might have heard on this past week's Thursday show. I've set you up for nothing but success moving forward. But let's fill people in a little bit on all of this. So This came about because you bought Heller and brought it back to life.

37:25I want to tell people that story before we jump into your new role because Heller is central to this whole story. Heller was a passion project. I think we did some amazing things. The last chair we launched won Best of the Year. Then last with Cindy Allen and Interior Design Magazine, it just won the Best Outdoor Lounge of the past 20 years. kind of unheard of. But showing at MeaCon every year in this little space we had, on Mondays, what was so nice was Franco Bianchi, the CEO of Hayworth, would come by every Monday for 20 minutes and take me in the hallway and just talk to me. And those things mean so much.

38:06I just can't tell you. And that helped build that relationship that we had to make this happen. It was pretty special. I met him years ago at Neocon, and I'd been called to come meet him. It was maybe the fourth year into Design with the Reach. And I was brought into the busy Neocon. The entire space is full, and I get escorted through the crowds to a back room. Wait right here. And then two seconds later, Franco walks in, and he's like handsome and cool, and he sticks his hands out. He goes, hello, my name is Franco Bianchi, and I want to buy your company. I was like, and I think I fell in love.

38:44I would have just said yes.

38:48And that's something that's not common out there and that I find very attractive. And it started off, we talked about a distribution program. We were always kind of playing with it. The first time I wasn't ready and then we had a good talk. And then he said, I didn't realize you were working so hard. Do you really want to work? And I said, I'm working my tail off and loving. I love working. And that was the catalyst that sparked the next level of conversation. It seems like a great growth distribution opportunity for Heller, which now goes into some new locations, it sounds like. Tell me. Yeah.

39:24So Heller will be distributed in multiple areas. JNSAC will be distributing along their collection, and they have this amazing sales team. I was just lucky enough to go to their sales meeting. And Bill Ward is a phenomenal CEO and a great guy. will be through the Hayworth store, which is a big deal. And that's a big kind of up and coming thing at Hayworth. And also through the dealership network. So those are just additional distribution channels to the core business. The core business stays the same with lots of charming, small retailers across the country, Design & Reach being the primary retailer and our best friend.

40:03And it should be really, really beautiful for the brand. And to clear up the issue of design within reach, and on this past week's show, we very quickly went through John's resume of Edelman Leather as selling to Knoll and then buying DWR and then selling to Herman Miller and all of that. You have Heller being sold within DWR, and it sounds like that relationship continues and in fact may well expand with this new distribution, yes? Yeah, I mean, Outreach is the strongest retailer in the world of authentic modern furniture. And I love them. So I think they're carrying our brands already. But I think with my understanding of how that company works and how their distribution works and how the manufacturing and merchandising side of the Italian side goes, I mean, I think I can dramatically build that business.

40:55And when you and I spoke, I think you mentioned when I texted you, it's a win-win. That's a massive win-win there. To have somebody who is a large vendor understand your business is a massive plus. Okay. Well, so let's tell people, again, this past week's show, we got into some of the brands a little bit, but you've got this stable now of Italian brands that you are in charge of growing. And you tell me, first off, what the brands are and then what you're hoping to be able to do with them. Well, Polchona Frau, which is just saying it out loud makes me shiver a bit. My parents both sat in Polchona Fran chairs my whole life when they had cocktails at night.

41:38I was in the living room. You've seen it. Casina, again, oh my goodness. A brand that I wasn't that familiar with, which is Zenota. and uh oh my goodness iconic pieces uh it's like kind of the loudest brand but the most comfortable in some ways the best beanbag in the world you know it's just a combination of things and chakotay which is again like super high-end uh gorgeous italian handmade furniture i want to understand better how the italian companies come at the american market because i've had conversations. It's a different model. It tends to be more retail and less focused on the trade.

42:21But you tell me and what you see evolving rather than perhaps changing right away, what do you see needs to happen? Well, I think running Italian brands from Italy, it's really just difficult. Not only is the literal language different, but the way they refer to things as different, as an example. They refer to retailers as dealers. Well, it's confusing because dealers in our world are Hayworth, Knowles, and they do different jobs in Europe. They don't really sell through the A &B community in most of the rest of the world, whereas the United States is dominated by the A &B community. Developers even, you have to work with developer, but they tell you which A &B term to go work with in general.

43:09So they've been very, very separate in their strategies between these different brands. And I think that if you speak about them as a whole, they're dramatically stronger as a whole. And imagine going into Gensler with Zenota, which I love, but you'll get two people in the room. If you go into Gensler with stable of brands, you fill the room and you regale them with authentic stories about craftsmanship and origins of the brand. So I think it's pretty cool. I think it's rare to see the combination where it actually is much stronger as a group. Well, and to that point, John, at present, have these brands had a team of outside salespeople that are going around and presenting?

43:54I mean, is that a big part of the sales process or no? So I'm going to say like every salesperson I've met, no matter what they do, is incredibly passionate and just loves the brands. But it's the A &D, they have, I think one person, very few people that do that full-time. Maybe a store person has a collection of A &D clients and a few residential trade, but they do it separately. And there's not a consistent strategy. I think everybody's passionate, everybody loves it, but it's hard when everybody's separate. When you think about these brands separately, you don't have the scale to build the team.

44:27So ideally we can harness the scale of the business and build a beautiful small team that can tell the stories. So we've seen what I think is now called Floss, B &B, Italia, if that's the current name that's being used for the roll-up of an array of brands from a competitive company. And the understanding now is that they're going to try and unroll that company and sell off some of those brands, in part because that roll-up strategy just didn't seem to work or deliver the results they were hoping for. What's your understanding of all of that? And are you salivating at the opportunity to step in and take some margin and some market share there?

45:12I respect those brands so much and was a student of the product. And the hardest thing in the world is to develop a collection of brands, of designs like that are so iconic. So I give them huge kudos for just understanding the value of those brands. I think private equity-driven design companies are difficult to succeed. I think it's passionate brand leaders that understand it, that lead them. If they flounder, I am more than happy to pick up some business. That'd be the best thing in the whole world. But I don't want to ever speak poorly of things that I love. No, of course. I just love those things.

45:48My job is to make it easier to buy our beautiful things. And if we get more of that share, it'd be great. Well, so again, then going back to what you imagine year one, year two, year three really looks like in this process. I'm on day five. I'm on day five. But I think the first thing I need to do is learn about the business and how each one operates. And that's going to take a little bit of time. And I've got to understand, and I would use it especially, look at a fruit tree and there's that stuff that's already fallen, it's rotten, we'll skip that. And then there's the low hanging, the median hanging a little higher.

46:31And we have to look at every level and make a plan for each stage and have the patience to go through the stages because my mind is exploding since Monday. and I'll have to harness that and regroup and develop a patient plan of execution to get to be the dominant player, right? So we can do it. I just got to take a little time to put the pieces together. But I can tell you that the strength will be in speaking in a much stronger single voice than many, many little ones. Now, when I say that, the brands at retail, the brands at market will never lose their distinct flavor and their iconic brand status.

47:15Sure. I'm just saying in certain areas, especially A &D, I got to bring almost like a multi-line person, bring a package. So my package outside of the consumer is these brands because the marketing, everything about the individuality of the brands will stay the same, obviously. My job is to get people to look at them in a larger scale. Right. Right. And again, it seems like there's so much opportunity in part because so much of the design community isn't fully aware of these brands, right? And understand, I mean, I think a lot of these brands, oh, they might know the names, but they don't in depth know the catalog or the offerings or what they can do.

47:58Well, there's a disconnect, right? So Neocon, it doesn't really appeal to residential interior designers. Right. So that's one place where you might see the brands together. But then when they walk up Madison, they're all individual. So they kind of know what they do. But then there hasn't been a ton of marketing across the country. When we use dealers rather than ourselves, it's a little difficult time to get the whole message out there when you're in a multi-line showroom or a multi-line retail environment. And I think most people don't connect those brands with Hayworth. That's just something they haven't stressed over the years.

48:34and Hayworth has put together a phenomenal stable, and not a stable that they're building to quickly exit, right? A stable they're going to hold for 100 years. Well, and tell us a little bit about Hayworth, because a lot of people, again, might not be familiar, and a lot of people might assume it too is owned by private equity, which is not the case. Yes, Hayworth is a family-owned company, which is so refreshing. God bless all the publicly held companies, but there's a little different mindset sometimes. times they think for the long term not to please every quarter to the shareholders but to please themselves you know the hayworth family seems super supportive i have not i've met some of them but not since since the role but it's kind of fun to not have the public uh shell over you yeah right i think that's gonna be a little little little more free yeah i i mean and i've i've spoken to many inside uh herman miller and and elsewhere that just talk about the challenges of being a publicly traded company and the reporting structure and everything else and what you can do and what you can't do.

49:38So we've done that transition a few times. I mean, in the shoe business, I was with Sam and Libby when they went public. Then we sold Edelman to a public company and designed and reached to a public company and stayed with all those companies for a while after. So it can be super fun. It's amazing, but it's just different. Could you have imagined that this was the step that you would be taking? You and I were laughing before we came on air just because how funny that here we are, you taking another big role like this. Did you imagine this even just a year or two ago? No.

50:15No, no, I really couldn't. But, you know, everything, everything comes with my life. It's been a beautiful kind of role to it. And, you know, the fact that my parents sat in Vanity Fair chairs in Edelman Leather every night, I didn't even know what they were. Yeah. To the best time of my entire life in business was the trips to Italy with my father buying leather. And then there's only a reach where Dario brought me to his office in 2010 and said, I told him to bring me all the big retailers in the world. They brought me you guys. And they had stopped selling us. Right? So when you look at it from what actually happened, it makes perfect and total sense.

50:53But no, it wasn't a plan. it. But it's a great outcome. Now, do we have to shake John McPhee loose from his role at Chilowich? That's always the hard thing for me. Now, I miss John. He was obviously an investor in Heller. His son, Andrew McPhee, is arguably the most valuable thing that Hayworth is getting in this deal. As I said to you earlier, the one thing you can't teach in life is intelligence and they'll be blown away by him. So I'm still involved with John because I'm an investor in Chilowich and on the board, but it would be amazing to have him along for this ride. He is anyway, because he can't stop.

51:36We talk to each other so often. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. But I can imagine you just sort of trying to coax him to come along with you. So it wouldn't surprise me at all, John, if we were having a conversation with the two of you in the next few months. No, let's see where we are in five years. I wouldn't say any few months. Now he's got a job to do. Okay. No, I know. He's got a big job at Chilowich. So we'll see what happens there. But listen, maybe Chilowich needs to be added to the Hayworth stable. Who knows? You never know. Conversations could already be happening. Anyway, my point is, so what I'm curious about, where do you think we are right now?

52:16We keep waiting for the housing market to recover. doesn't look like it's happening in a major way. At one point, we thought interest rates were going to come down dramatically. It looks pretty clear that they're not going to be coming down dramatically. And then today, we get some pretty historic news with the Supreme Court announcing that they don't believe the president has the authority to tariff in the way that he has. And for listeners, that happened three hours ago. Exactly. To timestamp this, we're talking Friday afternoon at four o 'clock. So I've been raw a lot. So I bet for so long that interest rates would go down, I mean go up.

52:58I bet against them for 13, 14 years incorrectly. That was artificial. I said we'd have a terrible first quarter because of tariffs and they hit. I mean, the numbers aren't that bad. Some numbers came out today that weren't amazing on, I think on GDP, but nothing's crashed. The housing market, I just don't know. I'm no longer predicting gloom and doom, but what's going to happen Monday? That's the greatest, what's going to happen now that tariffs are overturned? I think it's fascinating. Are we going to claw them back? I mean, my wife buys stuff on Etsy all the time and she paid a pretty massive duty on most of it.

53:38Is that coming back to us? There's no system in place. I mean, this is massive. This is historical what happened today, even more historical than implementing the tariffs. In a way, yes. Right. So, I mean, Liberation Day and all of that, and that caused so much tumult and companies lost 20, 30 percent of their value that day. The CEO of RH was on his earnings call watching his stock fall dramatically and might have... the s-word exactly he blurted out an expletive and uh and and that was that was everyone picked up on that and listen and that stock is still way down because no one's no one's certain where all of this is going and and a lot of these companies are and it's been it's been fascinating to see how everybody has tried to navigate it and we thought we were getting to a point of of acceptance in the whole thing that everyone was just trying to say okay this is just part of doing business but all the while thinking, well, what happens if the Supreme Court overturns tariffs?

54:40So for housing, in my opinion, the government's going to have to shield the profits, long-term capital gains on real estate for private homes. If they do that, that could help with some of the difference in interest rate when they're going for a 2.5 % loan to a 6 % loan and even it out. Because if you can't afford to downsize, like when you get older, you can't move to a smaller house, then that young family can't come into the house and fix it up and sell and the whole cycle gets disrupted. Right. But if they can start that, you know, that generation is time to buy a condo in Naples or whatever it's going to be.

55:14And there are certain markets I'm looking at. I'm in Westport, Connecticut right now. If a house goes on the market today that is basically turnkey, it sells in 12 hours. So houses do sell. We just need people to be selling more of them. One of the things that's challenging for companies today is that, and I was just having this conversation at a luncheon earlier today with an executive who runs multiple showrooms. And he says, you know, today, A, you have to have the physical presence. Then you have to have this big social media presence. Then you have to be advertising and reaching out to the editorial community constantly and all of that.

55:47And you've got to have outside sales. And there are more channels to cover and more expectation and more costs to go after those same sales that used to just come from you either having a store or having a showroom. and that was about it. How do you think about that? Because I know that marketing is a huge part of what needs to happen next for these Italian brands. So if you look at what we did for the brand at Heller in four years with no money, right? I mean, it's unbelievable. So it can be done, but then you don't have a sales force. You don't have the other side. So for the Italian brands, we have an amazing dealership network to leverage that's there.

56:32We have locations, we have retailers that carry our brand. We have retailers that run only under our brands, mono brand stores. So for us, it's inherently, we have a leg up. And I think I can create the energy and then take the marketing dollars that were for all the brands and pull them So it seems like a lot more. And I think that's the job today. I think I'm trained to be miserably a bit on that spend because it's very hard to gauge success or failure of certain kinds of marketing. And we just have to watch that very carefully. But I'm not worried about it at all. I think a lot of it comes from the A &D community and getting specified and getting on jobs.

57:16And then you get in the magazines, you get the credit, and then that builds your relationships there and it kind of builds pretty organically. If you think about Edelman Leather, we had such a brand and we had a very narrow scope of marketing. Now, times have changed, but all the packages, everything you do with a magazine is basically digital too. It always comes together and you can really create a compelling little conglomerate of marketing energy. And it seems be working i'm not worried about it i think the hardest part is getting some people that a project people want to look at right so yeah when you have a phenomenal product there's an energy there on its own uh that i think just has to be talked about and brought to the magazine spaces again and show were the were the italian brands i i assume they were impacted by by the tariffs in a in a meaningful way a lot of conversation about what do we even do at this point with containers that are on the water and everything else.

58:18I mean, when you think about that huge issue, can you imagine it going away in a meaningful way? Or will that not be a big focus for you in the early days of all of this? It will not be a focus for me at all. Okay. Because it really doesn't matter. I mean, everybody's going to be in the exact same boat and we're all going to do the same thing and we'll adjusts. Thank God that's not something I have to worry about. I have enough things to put together. It won't matter at all. I mean, chaos will ensue where it might matter if it just confuses the economy so much that we have a problem. And the government in the next lawsuit is told to pay the money back immediately.

59:02That'd be a bad sign too. But obviously it won't happen. But no, it won't bother me. I do think it's chaos, like real chaos. And will be interesting to see on next week. It's such short term thinking, but how the market, how businesses react to the news, they've had no time. I mean, I've been basically with you. So who knows? Well, no, exactly. I mean, we've both been sitting here chatting and, and the world could be melting down, and perhaps it is. It's fascinating. We've never seen anything like this. We've never seen anything like the past year. And remarkably, though, what's interesting, John, and I want to get your perspective on this, when I went to Paris, when I went to London in January and spoke with all these fabric houses and spoke with all of these to-the-trade brands, they all seem to have a remarkably good year in 2025, despite kvetching about the tariffs and the challenges and all of the uncertainty, the trade, particularly at the high end, seemed to have a pretty strong year, which makes me think that there's so much opportunity for you and these brands with that in mind.

1:00:12Every economic data point tells you the rich got richer and they're spending. Yes. Yes. So hallelujah. And you can't buy a Rolex or a Ferrari for a Porsche 911. You literally just can't buy them. So that's very good for this type of market. I think it's confusing to the rest of the world. Oh, it must be so tough in the United States, or there's headwinds. I don't think so. I mean, I think it's not easy, but it's certainly easier when you're in a luxury segment. Well, and to that point, John, everyone that I spoke to in Europe was laser focused on the US. Yes. That's the market we need to succeed.

1:00:50Right. And I assume the same is true for the Italians. They need. Yeah, because China got tough, right? China got really tough. And the America and the top, you know, quarter percent of America got very strong. Right. And they started to demand luxury, understand luxury and eat it up. So that's fantastic. The question for many has been, is there a big enough market in the U.S. for what we consider to be modern or contemporary furniture versus all of the traditional furniture that we see in most of the big shelter magazines or most of the big projects that we see? What's your take on that, or how do you think about that?

1:01:31I think people live in an eclectic manner. And even the traditional homes today are showing modern mixed in if they're designed well. And I think at the level we're selling to, either we control the look of the project, or we're a significant portion mixed in. And if you look at our brands, most of the product is kind of iconic. And you could, you know, I would say, I say it for a hell or, but I'll say it for here too, you could put it in a warehouse or a penthouse, and it holds its own. So we really belong in almost every environment. And I've been living for the past couple of days in the Poltero Frost Shore by Madison.

1:02:05Lucky you. Yeah. I mean, life is good. That's my office. And you can really see it almost anywhere. So I think, yes, to answer your question, the market is dramatically way bigger than we're touching at the moment. Yeah. Corporate, hospitality, residential, yachts, massive opportunity for all of our brands. And I don't think we're so avant-garde at all. We're pretty basic, just really well designed. And finally, when you were brought on in all of this and this all just happened, what's your take on what management really needs to see from you? What do you think success is going to look like to your bosses in a year or two?

1:02:52The honest answer is results. Yeah. And if I'm successful by increasing sales and brand awareness, that's a success. If I do one without the other, not that successful, right? So we do a bunch of short-term things that create sales. That's not that hard to do. That's not the right way to go about it. We have to do it with maintaining the brand's panache, everything about the brands. So they're going to measure me by how does the brand hold up in today's society? Where do we stand? Have you raised the level in the United States or lowered it? And are we doing more sales or are we about to and is there a plan for that?

1:03:34That's the report card. Yeah. Yeah. Do you imagine you'll need a great big team? Do you imagine you'll need to hire some people to help you with all of that? I mean, I hope so. I have a good team now. And I think I have to learn when we put the team together, who has the strengths to kind of think on a larger scale. But what happens when you were in the company for a long time is when you get to a wall, first you bat your head in a couple of times. Then either you dig a hole, you climb over, or you walk around it. But the wall's still there. So these people just got sometimes found a way around it.

1:04:06But now we work together, we can build a road, right? Go right through. them. And that's the challenge. But I think we have passionate, intelligent people, and we're going to leverage that skill set first. Well, John, I'm very excited for you, and I'm very excited for Hayworth, and I'm really pleased that this next chapter is happening for you. Congratulations. Thank you, Dennis. I just want to say thank you to you and Fred as well, because I do really enjoy the show. And I get to listen to old friends, and it's almost is better than social media. I get a much deeper vibe into what's going on because I don't get to see them all the time, but I really enjoy it.

1:04:45It makes me smile. Well, I appreciate you making the time. I know you're just five days into the new job, but thank you so much, John. Thank you for having me, sir.

1:04:58And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Caroline, what got your eye? I saw that Dezean covered this Swedish designer, Gustav Westman, who created these bowls in honour of the Olympics. They're actually shaped like curling. I don't know what you'd call that. Curling stones? Curling things? Yes. So I thought that was a fun way to get in on the Olympics. I think that's very fun. And the Olympics clearly wanted us all to like curling a lot more than we might already.

1:05:39So I'm glad that they jumped on that as well. Fred, what caught your eye? I love how IKEA announced plans to spend$2 billion on the U.S. market. I wonder how much of that$2 billion is going to those curling poles. Yeah, just a fun little column on businessofhome.com caught my eye this week. An editor, Caitlin Menza, who writes a regular recurring feature for us on shop owners around the country. has a really fun interview with a woman named Charlotte Smith who owns a shop in Raleigh, North Carolina called Union Camp Collective. So it seems like a really fun shop. I've never been there, but after reading this interview, I feel like I got to go there.

1:06:17Next time in Raleigh, Charlotte was talking about how her ideal customer is a weird aunt or anyone who has a sense of humor. And she talks a lot about how her biggest regret is not spending more on pieces. It's just a really fun, charming shop owner, and I hope to visit it, and it was a really fun read, so I recommend people check that out. Maybe we'll link it in the show notes. What caught your eye this week, Dennis? A couple things caught my eye that are coming up next week. One is the big Design LA show that a friend of the show, Becky Birdwell, is putting on, and it looks like a lot of great guests are lined up for panel discussions.

1:06:54I'm sorry that I will not be there, but it looks like a really great show, and It will be no doubt well attended. Part of the reason that I won't be there is because next week is also the NYCID Gala. And people who listen to the show regularly know that I try to help the New York School of Interior Design raise money for scholarships. And the gala is the big scholarship fundraiser of the year. We'll be giving awards to Bill Sofield and Ken Falk and others. and somehow I've gotten roped into being the emcee of the affair. So that is reason enough to come and enjoy and watch me fall on my face. No, it's going to be great.

1:07:38It's always a good time. As I say, it's amazing to see how many people from the industry turn out and many want to come and pay tribute to Ken and Bill and others. So I look forward to seeing much of the design industry there next week. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda.

1:08:17I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.