The Thursday Show: Tori Mellott's take on Southern style. Plus: How paint colors get their names

24:49Well, it's interesting. You mentioned our friends at Backdrop. And in the article, it pointed out that one of their best-selling colors, 36 Hours in Marrakesh, became such a popular color during COVID because it helped to transport people mentally, at least. at a time where they couldn't actually spend 36 hours in Marrakesh, but this paint color was going to help them feel like they were getting away a little bit. And it reminded me of just how meaningful a name can be and the right name versus the wrong name, the ability of a word to mean something else that takes you someplace else. Pharaoh and Ball, I think, is so great at at naming things and some of the other paint colors do an exceptional job.

25:36I think you and I both agree that while the paint companies do a great job, many other companies in our space don't do nearly as good a job. And when you see how meaningful some of these names can be, you think that some companies should get better at it. Yeah. I mean, here's a shocker. The writer is going to think that the words matter. I do think maybe not everyone feels the same way, but I do think that, you know, names are a powerful part of a product's appeal. And I think that in our industry, of course, we focus more on the look and the feel, and that's how it should be because, you know, consumers aren't sitting around, like, appreciating the name of their chair.

26:15They're sitting in it, and I think that's a valid distinction. But I do think that we kind of overlook it at our peril, and I think about, like, I don't know, what are even the iconic names of products in our industry? all those chairs that are like the BX29 or whatever, you know, it's almost like the chairs get famous by a nickname that someone else gives them as opposed to, you know, what the manufacturers want to give them. So I do think it's a, it's an overlooked thing. And a couple months ago, we were talking about the Birkin bag and how Hermes, you know, produces this incredible product that they, you know, it's worth, you know, it's a hundred times the cost of manufacturing and it's immediately more valuable on resale.

26:51And think about if like the Birkin bag was called like the BF9. You know what I mean? Like it's part of the appeal of it to have this evocative name that of course, you know, refers to this actress and this great story about how she met the guy from Hermes on the plane. We need, we need more of stuff like that to make, to make our products feel more romantic, I think. No, I agree. And, and you don't talk to a marketing expert today who doesn't bend your ear about the power of storytelling and, and great names. And it helps if there's a great story behind them. Turns out Elephant's Breath, there actually isn't a story behind it.

27:27So don't ask the story. That was a Faro and Ball paint color, yes. A good name. Not a good story. Great name. And we can imagine Elephant's Breath looking that color, sure. But the point is, names are such a great jumping off point for telling a story. And I think that's what brands need to do. And I think great brands figure that out. And that's why they invest so much time and effort in the naming process and the storytelling process that goes along with that. And I think the companies that give it short shrift don't benefit from the power of what words can do. And we're not going to name any names about who gets names wrong.

28:09We're tempted to. We're tempted to name some names, but we're not going to. Exactly. All right, that's it for the news, but there's plenty more to check out on businessofhome.com, including the latest industry comings and goings and a roundup of designers' favorite tech tools. We'll be back in a minute, but first, a quick break.

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29:17The possibilities are endless. The result is a unique commissioned work hand-woven in editions of one. Each product is supported by unmatched personalized service. To explore the possibilities and register for your trade account, visit HartmanForbes.com.

29:41Okay, I have the pleasure of being joined by, and wait for it, she's got a new title, so I'm going to try and get it all out, the Associate Vice President of Video and Social for Schumacher, Tori Malott. Tori, thank you for being here. Hi, Dennis. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Well, I am thrilled to have you for so many reasons. I'm excited to talk about your beautiful new book and all the many things that you do at Schumacher. But first, let's take a moment and talk about this new title of yours because it sounds like you've got some different roles. Tell us about it.

30:17I do, it's brand new. And basically I had been straddling Frederick and Schumacher for maybe a couple of years now. I was overseeing social and video for Schumacher. I was also the style director at Frederick and also overseeing Frederick's social and video. and to be honest, it just became a little overwhelming. It was a lot. So Frederick is completely separate from Schumacher and so it was time to make a choice. I had to kind of decide if I wanted to stay at Frederick or if I wanted to go back to Schumacher, which is where I started, I don't know, six or seven years ago. And I had been in editorial for so long and I love it, But I really, really want to hone and develop my digital skills.

31:10I just think it's such an interesting time in our industry and watching the transition. And I think there will always be a place for print. This is how I like to describe it. Print is sort of like a Bentley. You're chauffeured around in a Bentley. It's very civilized. You don't ever imagine Bentleys as moving very fast. They're sort of going around 35, 45 miles an hour, but it's extremely luxurious and just a really wonderful experience. That's print. And digital is like a Porsche 911. You're going as fast as humanly possible. You step on the gas and it's like zero to 60 in three seconds and it's super fun.

31:55And I like speed. I like to go fast. well so this speaks to your own evolution it sounds like i i feel like the the younger tori malat that i knew probably would have wanted to be in the bentley and now you it sounds like you've you've shifted your perceptions and and now you want to be in a porsche 911 which i love it well actually i'd prefer a tesla to a 911 but um i actually love both i think print is so luxurious I find print to be very relaxing and I find digital to be more informative, I think. So just wrapping this up, Tori, this new title and being with Schumacher. So this pulls you away from Frederick.

32:39And as you say, Frederick is a completely different entity run with a separate sort of business team and everything else. And so this really puts you back on the Schumacher side of things. As you pointed out, you had been when you first started with the company. Yes? Yes, that's exactly right. So I managed before I left Frederick. I produced this summer, I don't know, about 25 shoots. So you'll definitely see my name in the pages of Frederick for a couple of, maybe a year or so longer. And of course, I will always dabble in editorial, even if it's personally, you know, making Pinterest boards and managing my Instagram account, which is pretty editorial.

33:21I mean, I love to do it, but it's really more of a hobby. for me. And it's less of a, I find at this point, I really want a career in, you know, digital marketing and video marketing and social. I just think that that is, I just think it's such an exciting space to be in. And it is an opportunity to actually be really creative, I find. I was a little worried about that. I was like, oh, geez, if I leave Frederick, you know, is my creativity? Is it going to dry up? And really, I think it's actually the opposite. I think it's more of a challenge to figure out how to present all of the gorgeous offerings from Schumacher in a really creative, sophisticated way.

34:06So I'm excited about the new role and I've hit the ground running and I'm really excited for this new change. I'm always wondering what the needle is that video and digital helps to move. In preparation for our conversation, I'm going through some of the videos. I'm watching the beautiful video of Gil Schaefer and his wife's home in Maine. I'm looking at that and I'm thinking, what does this do for Schumacher and the business and the brand that you all are trying, to your point, raise awareness of? Well, the house tour specifically, I think they're so beautifully done that they really cement our position in the design world as a style leader.

34:55You know, video is so intimate. I feel like it's much more intimate than print. It's much more intimate than social because you really get to know the person and you can hear their voice. You can hear their tone, their cadence. I mean, if you read the comments actually on Gil and Courtney's video, so many people say and comment that Gil has the most soothing voice and relaxing voice. And he really does. And so I think that video is so engaging and so intimate. And I think for our brand, for the Schumacher brand, it's a chance for designers to sort of see a more personal side of the brand. And I think, you know, brands can feel a little chilly and distant and removed.

35:43And so by really focusing a lot of our efforts on video, I think we're really trying to make it super personal. and we're trying to engage designers with the DNA of our company. And I think video is a great vehicle in which to do that. And for the designers and for the architects that you speak to, what do they want out of it? Well, I think for many or maybe all of the designers and architects that we featured in our house tours, I mean, their homes are so personal. and they have really poured their heart and soul into the design and the creation and the curation of their homes. And I think they are really proud of it.

36:33And, you know, it shows sort of a very personal, vulnerable side by, you know, by letting people into your home. I mean, that's like a very vulnerable position to be in. And, you know, another reason why Schumacher, why we produce these videos and we create these house tours is really a sense of community. You asked what designers want and get out of. Well, I think the design community at large, I think we're a pretty tight knit group. I mean, what is, you'll know this better than I, what's the total number of interior designers in the U S is it 75 ,000 80. Well, interesting. You should say that Tori, because we've been talking about that quite a bit and it's hard to actually find an accurate number Maybe it's 65 ,000.

37:20Maybe some people think it's as high as 90 ,000. I think the real designers that are buying Schumacher, it's probably a pretty tight little group. Right. But I also think that there are home enthusiasts and design enthusiasts who also love to watch the house tours. But I think it's a very tight-knit community. And everyone has sort of a shared passion for living, really, for lifestyle, living and living graciously, living beautifully, making your experience here on this earth for the very limited time that we get, making it as enjoyable as possible. And I think it's really fun to see how other people, and especially people at the top of their game, like Courtney Daniels and Gil Schaefer, how they're living and what they're doing.

38:12I think I'm fascinated by humans in general. I have a real curiosity about how people live and their backgrounds and their stories. And I just, I want to know it all. I want to know the nitty gritty. I want to know what pillows they're sleeping on in their beds. And so, of course, you want to hear from the experts about what products they're using, how they're using it, because you go to an expert because they know best. I'm curious, having done a bunch of these now, what have you learned about what makes for a good house tour? What makes it work? What are some of the things that you've learned along the way that have improved what you do today?

38:58Well, I mean, the obvious is you have to have the best people filming it with the best light. I mean, the presentation is, you know, I feel like that's a quarter of the success of it. But beyond that, the guts of it really are that the homes have to be super personal. And one of my favorite things, and you'll relate to this because this is what you do every day, a hundred times a day. I love interviewing the subjects. It's my favorite part of the job. It is the most enjoyable part. First of all, I love making them feel comfortable because a lot of people, like I am right now, get a little nervous to talk about themselves, to talk about their projects.

39:42And so I think putting people at ease is one of my favorite things to do. It's almost like a challenge, like how comfortable can I get them that they'll joke around with me and maybe they'll give up some information that they wouldn't have, or they'll tell me something really personal. Because the more personal the house tour is, I find the more successful it is. And also trying to figure out what exactly they're passionate about, about the house. So picking up on those small details and then really getting them going, sort of asking them questions about the things that just jazz them up. Like, you know, Gil, I think his library he mentioned in the video is probably his favorite room in the house.

40:28And he did this really clever design trick where he used a veneer instead of oak paneling, like thick oak paneling. It would have been a fortune. He used this beautiful oak veneer that he spent a lot of time perfecting the finish. So it looks extremely luxurious. So he was really excited about that. And it's so fun to hear somebody talk about something that they're passionate about because they just get so excited and they want to tell you all about it. And I want to hear about it. I want to learn about it. And I think all the other people out there who are interested in design also want to hear about it.

41:05So because we jumped into your new title at the start of this conversation, Tori, I didn't get to fill in a little bit of your history for people. I always assume, of course, everyone knows Tori Malott. But for the handful of people that might not know Tori, I'm wondering, Tori, in looking back over the evolution of the world of publishing, I wonder, just share with us some of the jobs in your past that really made an impression or left a lasting impact on you that you feel you brought forward with you into what you do today. This is a little bit of a cop-out answer, but I truly, I mean it from the bottom of my heart.

41:50Every single experience I have had in publishing has prepared me and propelled me forward in some way. And I truly mean that. Now, my first boss, Elizabeth Mayhew, my real first job in publishing that wasn't an internship, that was a paying job. I would say that Elizabeth Mayhew probably had the biggest impact on me. And she is still someone who I am very close to her. And I count her as one, if not my biggest mentor. She's just so supportive and she's such a powerhouse. She's so full of energy. She's like the Energizer Bunny. I don't know how she makes all those cakes. I don't think she sleeps.

42:34I think she sold her soul to Betty Crocker. I don't know. But she's someone who really had a big impact on me. One thing that was invaluable that I learned at Martha Stewart Living Omni Media was business, like actually running a business and making money had never crossed my mind because I had been on editorial for so long and old school magazines, there was really a separation of church and state. And, you know, every once in a while, your editor in chief would say, Hey, can you get an advertiser into this story? If you can't, no big deal. But I never really thought about the magazines as a money-making entity.

43:16I was just like, Oh, this is, I was very naive and very young. And I was like, oh, this is so pretty. And I just want to put out what's pretty and it's just going to be gorgeous. And we're all going to be so inspired. And when I got to Martha, it was really, I mean, she runs a business and you have to think about things in such a different capacity. And I had never, I'd never experienced that before. So it was really eyeopening and an amazing learning experience. And it was probably my shortest job that I've ever had, But I think I learned a lot there. It's interesting what you say, though, about the business side of magazines, because I think there certainly was a time where there was much more of a divide than there is today.

44:06And if there's a knock about where we are with shelter publications and just magazines in general, is that sadly, they've had to become much more driven by advertising demands and by business. And those walls, to the extent that they existed at one point, have come down or people have managed to scale them. And so a lot has changed. But I'm curious in thinking about Frederick, knowing the shelter publication landscape as well as you do, what was the opportunity that Frederick found? What was the white space that existed that Frederick got itself into? And why do you think it was so well-received so quickly and beloved now by so many designers who refer to it as, it's the must read for them?

45:06You know, Dara, who I also obviously count as a mentor, she and I have worked together on and off for 20 years in various magazines and capacities. Dara does not compromise ever. And it's her greatest attribute. It's what makes Frederick so special. She's been known to turn down advertising if she doesn't like the creative collateral. And I think that's, though, what makes Frederick so incredibly special. Dara Caponegro puts together a magazine probably better than anyone I've ever met. It's her passion. It's what she is. It's her gift. I mean, she is so gifted when it comes to making a magazine.

45:59And her pursuit of beauty, it's unstoppable. And she never compromises. I think that's the most important takeaway. way. So shifting gears, part of your title now focuses on social. And social media, we've talked a lot about Instagram fatigue and a lot of designers struggling with how they should be presenting themselves online. And is it really necessary for them all to be doing video content all the time and and and do do people want to see more behind the scenes and and personal stories about people how do you think about social media for for schumacher and then and then i want you to talk a little bit about your own social media which has a very different sort of energy and vibe but but tell me and and thinking about designers and and how they are are struggling with this and trying to figure it out.

47:04What do you tell them? For Schumacher Social, we are definitely, I would say we're pivoting a little bit. This is kind of a new strategy that we're employing, but I think that static images, people do have fatigue and they are bored of them. And I still think there's a place for them. And I still think they're useful for social, certainly to highlight designers work. But I think video and movement is so important going forward, especially to tell the stories about product. And we do so many things by hand. So there's a real artisanal quality to so much of the Schumacher product. Getting that across is so much easier in a video than it is in a still photo.

47:55So for us, that's really important because we want to tell the story from the germination of where the cotton was grown to a person hand embroidering it to a person hand screening it. All of those stories about how the product is made, they're so important for us. So that's Schumacher. As far as social goes for designers, I still personally think the most powerful calling card one has is your work, obviously. So I think obviously, if there are any designers out there that are posting other people's work, I really think you should stop. I do. Even if it's inspirational, I think that your own work is what is going to get you another job.

48:52And I know that there are people who definitely get work from social media, but I think that most designers, most working designers who are really putting out really good products. I think most designers get their next job from word of mouth. I think it's still important to have social media because it's like an electronic portfolio. So that person who might be interested in hiring you, who maybe saw your work at a friend's house, they will use your social platforms, be it TikTok or Instagram or Facebook. They will use those platforms to get to know you a little bit better and to understand your work a little bit better.

49:34So I think they're still very valuable. Have you found that? Actually, I'm curious. You've talked to so many people, Dennis. Do you think word of mouth is where it's at? Well, I mean, I certainly think that so many designers point to their repeat clients and the community around those repeat clients, the word of mouth, as you say. I'm often struck, though, by how many designers tell me that Instagram is still such a driver for new business. Is that right? Yeah. And that, I mean, they point to numerous projects that absolutely came to them through social. And this is the whole challenge, this constant conversation that we're always having about what should I save to ultimately be published in a shelter publication versus what can I show on my own social right now?

50:25and it's even harder if you know you're working on a book and you're trying to save those images for perhaps an even longer period of time or get them photographed in a different way. Well, I'll tell you this. I do know a little bit about that. If you want to have a project published in a print magazine, and obviously I cannot speak for any of the other print magazines out there, but I can speak for Frederick. I mean, Dara has a very strict rule that if it has been published on your website or if it's been published on social in any great capacity, obviously, I feel like maybe one photo would be okay, but we would ask that you would take it down.

51:05But if you've published multiple photos on your platforms, I mean, it's kind of a non-starter. Because I think the goal is to publish something that's unseen and very special. Because obviously, listen, there are certain people, like even in my book, Mackenzie Dove, who is an artist. She puts her studio in her house online a lot. but when I shot it for the book and the magazine we captured it in a very very different way and we captured it we captured many more details that she doesn't necessarily show and so I do think you'll be seeing something exciting and new but in terms of submitting a project to Frederick I definitely would keep your photos on the DL and also I tell this to every designer I mean print is amazing and wonderful.

52:02And it is the Bentley. And I know everybody, every designer really wants to have one project published in print. It's kind of like a badge of honor of sorts. But if a magazine offers digital coverage, don't turn it down. I think that digital coverage is so important. it's immediate it's shareable you can pin it you you can post it you can tag it it's to me it's more dynamic and and and i feel like visibility spikes when it is digital verse print tori's leaning into the future and she believes the future is digital ladies and gentlemen yes but that's not to say there isn't a place to print because i just published a book so obviously i I believe in print as well.

52:55It's just a different experience. It's like drinking a shot versus drinking a glass of wine. Yeah. Okay. Now we've moved on from the Bentley and the Tesla to just throwing back some shots and having a good old time. So tell us when you had this idea for the book, because being from a little town outside of Pittsburgh, it's interesting, as you point out in your introduction, that your first book is all about Southern interiors. And I want to hear some of the thinking behind it and when this first started getting in the works. Sure. Well, first of all, I am from Southwestern Pennsylvania. So I am technically from some of the South.

53:40Right. Yes. The deep, deep Southern part of Pennsylvania. The deep Northern South. Right. Exactly. You know, it's so funny. So Frederick and Schumacher, we have partnered with Feiden, and we've been publishing books at a rapid clip. When Dara said, it's, would you like to do a book? I said, oh my gosh, of course. And it's so funny. Dara wanted me originally, she wanted me to do a book on my Instagram about, about like sort of in the spirit of my Instagram account. And I said, Dara, I would love to do that, but I don't think we will sell one book. I don't think people are interested in the intricacies of my brain.

54:25And I think it's like a novel idea, but I was like, I don't think that's it. I think that I would prefer to do something that's much more, I want to focus on designers. I'm not a designer. I'm just an editor. And I thought a lot about what, what kind of book I wanted to publish. And my best friend, as you know, my very close friend, one of my closest friends is Elizabeth Blitzer, who's from the South. And I would say that she was definitely an impetus for this book. Getting to know her over the last 20 years, being so close to her, I've watched her entertain. I've watched her greet people. I've watched her...

55:06I just watch the way that she like moves through this world. And, you know, and I started to think about a lot of the interiors that I love. And I was like, wow, they're also Southern designers or the homes are in the South. And I was like, I think there's something really special about Southern interiors and Southern decorating and Southerners for that matter. And I decided that that's really what I wanted to focus on for the book. and I poured over, oh my goodness, probably 500 projects. And I went over every single photo. And then it was really important to me that they were all Southern designers or Southern-based designers and their homes because I wanted it to be very personal.

55:55I wanted it to be about them. I didn't want it to be about their clients or, you know, because obviously when a designer designs for a client, they're like in a different headspace. I wanted to be about the designer. And then I sent them this long questionnaire with a bunch of different questions. and then Mario Lopez Cordero who is also a very close friend of mine and my co-author he and I sort of poured through all of the questions and came up with a cadence that really allowed the designers personalities to shine through through the words and what was important to them and what was special to them and, you know, just how they perceive Southern interiors, the South, living in the South, decorating in the South, the Southern lifestyle.

56:48So it was really fun to hear all of the different answers. And you mentioned, I mean, you mentioned about how many of them are surprising in that they don't have what are the cliched notions that people might have about a Southern home. And And we've certainly seen that there is a lot of modern design going on in the South, although perhaps it doesn't get quite as much attention in that context. And there are certainly some modern-looking projects in here. But I wonder, what are some of the common elements that are woven throughout all of these projects? You talk about people's personality and quirkiness, but what else?

57:32Well, the common elements that almost every designer talks about in their questionnaire and in their interview, first of all, food. They all celebrate food, cuisine, eating, entertaining. I think every single person references entertaining and a love of entertaining and a zest for entertaining. Also family. Family is so important to all of these designers. They love to host family. They love to celebrate family. A lot of the designers, I love this. I love they reference their childhood and having proper Sunday dinners at their grandparents' house or they had five and six siblings and they would have breakfast in the breakfast room.

58:21And so a lot of the designers place a real important emphasis on food. And then comfort. Comfort was another descriptor that so many of the designers said was of number one importance, of the utmost importance that the home has to feel comfortable. And then, of course, a lot of them talk about that it has to feel personal. I mean, I think James Carter said, you have to bring something of yourself into your home or else it's just, it's never going to feel real. It's never going to feel authentic. And it struck me as so profound. You have to bring your personality into the home or it's just going to feel like a showroom.

59:08Hospitality, you know, that was another word that came up a lot. Southern hospitality, which we all, of course, have heard that phrase, but it's really about the warmth of Southerners and inviting people into their homes to share their space with them, their very personal private space. It's all about being vulnerable. And I think that's what Southerners do so well. They want people to come over. They want to have people in their homes, in their living spaces, sort of seeing them in their element, in their habitat, if you will. And I think that that transcends modern, traditional, old school, new school.

59:47I think it's just who they are. It's so interesting. Again, we talked about the scale and importance that the Southern market now represents for so many of these brands who are trying to navigate how to approach this market and think about this market. And I'm curious, did you discover things that you would see in Southern homes that you just wouldn't see in other parts of the country? Things that just so stood out that you wouldn't see in a California home or you wouldn't see in Gil and Courtney's home in Maine, for example? I'm not that familiar with West Coast decorating. I mean, I definitely think it's a different vibe and I definitely think it's a different look and I can recognize it when I see it, but I am less familiar with West Coast and Midwestern decorating than I am with Northern and Southern decorating.

1:00:44But I will just say, these designers tend to embrace imperfections and quirkiness in a different way than I've seen in other regions of the country. there's a sense of humor. They kind of just laugh it off and shrug it off. And it's like, oh, well, this, you know, teacup is chip, no big deal. Whereas I feel like Northerners, we're a little more self-conscious. We're a little more rigid, I find. We are a little less, we're a little less forgiving with ourselves. Before I let you go, Tori, I want you to talk a little bit just about this hot button issue of brown. All these stories were written, brown being the color of 2024, brown being the color of quiet wealth, brown being the most important color that we should all be paying attention to.

1:01:45A, is that total and utter nonsense, or is it really important, or has brown peaked? We're already moving on in the same way that hopefully we're moving on more and more from white boucle. Your favorite subject. Next to RH's earnings. Exactly, Tori. Thank you. Yes. This is, I actually, well, first of all, I love Brown. I love it. It is timeless. I know. It is beautiful. It's subtle. It's sophisticated. And I will tell you, I didn't always love Brown. But when I, when I worked at House Beautiful, I also, in addition to assisting Elizabeth Mayhew, I helped out Senga Mortimer. And Senga Mortimer is the most fanciest person I have ever met in my entire life.

1:02:36She is so sophisticated and so fabulous and so glamorous. And I learned a lot from Senga as well. And I'm very grateful that I had that experience. But Senga introduced me to brown. So this is like 2001 because she would always wear brown corduroys or a brown Belgian loafer or a brown shoe. And somehow we got on the subject of it and she was like, I love brown way more than I love black. Brown is so much more sophisticated and she really made me see the light. And so I have loved Brown for a very long time. And I do think that it is, I mean, if you want to call it quiet wealth or quiet luxury, I guess you can.

1:03:25I think that is, I mean, I don't want to put that moniker on it because it's so much more than that. So much more than that. It's rich. It's deep. It's the color of exquisite antique furniture, which I find every house needs, you know, a piece, every house needs an antique, a brown antique. You got to have it, if not a whole slew of it. But I do think it's just so much more sophisticated than many of the other colors out there. I do. Now, if it's like, you also have to look at the shade of brown. You know, if it gets too clear, then it's not as good. It has to have a little muddiness, but it definitely has to have soul and it has to have depth.

1:04:15And if it is a trend and if it is a fad for some people in this world, good. Let them discard it. I will take it all day long. Please get rid of it. I'm going to buy it at auction for pennies on the dollar of what you paid for it. Pennies on the dollar. Okay. And does any other color rise to that level of import in your mind? I mean, is there some color that we should be keeping an eye on? Is there some color that you're seeing in projects as you go around the country that's taking you by surprise? And that seems important. I don't believe in all that malarkey of color trends. And if you are following trends, I mean, I think that any decorator worth their salt would probably say this.

1:04:59If you are following trends, then it's probably not good decorating, in my opinion. And I think - Stop it. You just say, stop it. You are following trends. Just cut it out. That's what Tori says. Just cut it out. Why are you doing that? Why are you following trends? You see the whole show, we didn't get into any different voices. Dennis, why are you doing this to me? Why are you doing this to me right now? You know, listen, you're following trends. You got to follow your heart. Exactly. And it sounds like your heart should be leading you back to brown. Brown or bust. Oh, I like that. That's catchy.

1:05:30Brown or bust. That's the final word from Tori Malat. and thank you so much, Tori, with your busy schedule and all the things you're doing. People will be delighted to hear from you. You have so many fans and so many people wishing you well, Tori. So I thank you again. Thanks, Dennis. Well, it was really, truly an honor and a pleasure, and thank you so much.

1:05:57And we're back. We're getting to the end of the show here, but before we go, we'd like to take a second to highlight anything going on in the industry that might have caught our eye. Fred, what caught your eye? Parachute caught my eye this week. I went into the city the other day to have a little chit-chat with the CEO, or I guess she's not the CEO anymore, but the founder of Parachute, Ariel Kay, a former podcast guest, to talk about what's going on with her business. And it was just a fun chat. I really like Parachute. We talk a lot about how direct-to-consumer companies are really struggling.

1:06:24And I'm sure Parachute has got its own ups and downs, but it's still going, still got a lot of stores, and the product is still really cool. So it was fun to kind of sit down with Ariel and talk about it. One thing I thought was interesting is they have this new sustainability initiative there where customers can bring in sheets or bedding or towels from any company. It could be just old stuff you have lying around. And if you give it to them, they'll give it to this other organization that recycles it and turns it into new textiles. And you get a 15 % discount on Parachute when you walk in, which I thought was just a smart way to think about it.

1:06:54You know, this other organization that specializes in this kind of circularity takes care of the logistics. Parachute gets people coming in the doors. The people coming in the doors get a discount. It's an arrangement that works for everybody. And, you know, if the salespeople in the store told me that they, you know, they got like they're getting 20, 30 donations a week and people come in and browse. So it appears to be working. And I love seeing stuff like that in action. So that was cool to see up close. Yeah, I love hearing that. I'm glad about that. What about you? What caught your eye this week, Dennis?

1:07:21What caught my eye? Interestingly enough, one of the great designer related reads often over the weekend is the house and home section of the Financial Times. And I noticed that a lot of designers will read and often share stories. And we should do more to talk about some of the stories ourselves. But one of the things that caught my eye was there was an article that was about scruffy entertaining. And it was an article entitled, Why I'm Not Tidying Up Before Guests Come Over. and Charlotte Moss, the noted interior designer Charlotte Moss, shared the story on her social. And this is when I wish we had a call-in show, Fred, because there were so many great comments from design luminaries who weighed in on not tidying up before you have guests over.

1:08:13And I'm sure it will come as no surprise to you at all. The designers were furious about this notion. Alex Papacristini said, no way. Suzanne Tucker said, scruffy equals lazy. What do you mean you're not cleaning up the house before guests come over? And it was, and Charlotte Moss, we should point out, from Virginia. And I was thinking about Tori's book about southern interiors. And Tori and I talked about one of the things that the South is so famous for, of course, is entertaining and having people over. And I don't think any of the people in Tori's book would even dare to think of not tidying up before the neighbors came over.

1:08:51But the piece was about, hey, maybe this is an opportunity to show people how I really live and who I really am by leaving some things a little untidy. And maybe they'll feel closer to me when they get a sense of how I really live. What do you think, Fred? That's what I tell my wife, too, is that we're doing our guests a disservice by tidying up. And really, we should just sit around and be lazy. I don't know. I think it's a fascinating topic. I mean, I think my personal struggle with this is simply that with two kids, it's like impossible to keep the house tidy for more than three seconds. So no matter what we do, our guests are going to see us at our scruffiest.

1:09:28But I am a believer in tidying up for guests. I think, call me old fashioned. I think it's the right thing to do. I couldn't agree more. But I also think to your point, Fred, parents of young children get a carve out. We get a pass. Right? Absolutely. Completely understand. All right. That's all the time we have today. Thanks so much for listening. If you want to keep up with the latest news, browse job listings, or take a workshop, visit us online at businessofhome.com. If you want to get in touch with the show, write to us at podcast at businessofhome.com. This episode was produced by Fred Nikolaus and Caroline Burke and edited by Michael Castaneda.

1:10:06I'm Dennis Scully. Have a great weekend, and we'll be back with you on Monday.